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Oct. 8, 2026

Women in Black: Ghosts Stories & Dark Urban Legends

Women in Black: Ghosts Stories & Dark Urban Legends
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This episode dives into the eerie legends of the Women in Black. We start in Yakima, Washington, where a mysterious woman in a black dress was reported in 1897. Witnesses described a tall, silent figure racing through the streets who could supposedly shapeshift into a massive black hog, earning her the terrifying nickname Hog Devil. But was Yakima’s first ghost actually a supernatural entity, a woman sneaking out to meet her lover, or an elaborate prank?

Then we travel to Sleepy Hollow, New York, where a mysterious veiled Woman in Black haunted the streets in the late 1800s, before an encounter with police revealed a shocking possibility. From there, we head to Bangkok, Thailand, and the legend of the Women in Black of Wat Samian Nari, two ghostly sisters who reportedly hitch rides in taxis before disappearing, only to reappear crawling along the railroad tracks. Finally, we visit Fort Warren in Boston Harbor and the legend of Melanie Lanier, a Confederate soldier’s wife whose tragic story supposedly led to the haunting of the island by a guilt-ridden Lady in Black. But there’s a major problem: there’s no historical record that Melanie Lanier ever existed. Are these women ghosts, victims, hoaxes, urban legends, or something stranger?

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Yakima's first ghost was reported in the Yakima Herald in 1897.

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She was said to be a soundless, fast, tall figure

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in a black dress.

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A fast ghost is very scary to me.

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I know. And soundless, too.

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Like, so you're really only aware if you're seeing that

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out of the corner of your eye.

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And it gets more spooky because people also claim to

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have seen her shapeshift into a Huge black hog.

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Stop.

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Earning her the name Hog Devil. Hi, Taylin.

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, creepy people. Hello. Did anyone notice that's not Caitlyn?

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Caitlyn's not here today. She said it's October and she

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doesn't like spooky episodes and it was just too much

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for her to handle. So she chickened out.

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And she's not going to be here today. Yeah.

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And she's not here to defend herself. But this is

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P & W Haunts and Homicides where we chat about

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true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the

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Pacific Northwest. Or the P & W if you're nasty.

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I'm not as nasty as Caitlin.

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Not yet. We haven't made you that nasty yet, but

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you're getting there. Cool. So before we start the actual episode,

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I like to bring up things like, you know, Pacific

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Northwest things that I may come across in my daily adventures.

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And so I'm staying in downtown Portland right now. I'm

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in like an apartment complex thing and there's like sushi

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right downstairs. So I was picking up takeout sushi and

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I see this car go by and it's got flamethrowers

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on it.

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Like literal flame there was.

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Attached yes I have a picture I hope it'll send

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to you I didn't actually get a picture myself because

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I was they were like handing me my takeout as

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it was rolling by and I was like shit oh

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my god so I found it online I found someone

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else's picture online so I just sent it to you

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oh my gosh so they're like bumping their music there's

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a the front also has a flamethrower because there's like

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two on the back that you can see. There's one

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on the front and it's like coming out of a

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dragon mouth.

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But why do they look like an ally? I'm not threatened, maybe.

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I don't know. I don't know what's up with it,

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but I just thought I was like, okay, I'm in Portland.

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Like this is so... I don't know how they don't

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catch things on fire rolling down the road.

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That's crazy. Like I know Oregon is wet, but surely

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this is a fire hazard. There's that is how are

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how is their car not exploding?

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I don't know. I don't know. And it's just it's

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not like a Lamborghini, you guys. It's like a Ford

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Explorer or something like I don't know exactly what I

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can't see what kind of car it is for sure.

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But it's something like that, like an SUV.

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And they were recording. It looks like they had a

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selfie stick and a phone out.

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They do.

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That is crazy. And maybe they are not an ally.

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I just mean like I'm intrigued. I'm curious about these people.

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How are they getting away with that? What is it for?

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I have so many questions. That's crazy. Right place, right time,

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I guess, for you.

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Oh, yeah. I feel like I need to like find

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their social media or something. And I don't know.

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That's crazy.

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But yeah, so that was fun. That was Portland Adventures

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for this week.

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So Portland.

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New segment, so Portland. Okay, so I still have a

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bit of a cold, so I kind of sound gross

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and congested, but you guys have to deal with it.

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At least I'm not like coughing my literal brains out anymore.

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You can lean more into the Phoebe Buffay and lean

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into the sexy sick voice. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I don't think I have. I don't have the sexy

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sick voice really going on. I have like the nasally snorty.

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One man's sick is another man's sexy.

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Gross.

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Sorry.

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You want me to slobber all over you? Okay. Well,

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are you excited to hear what we're talking about today?

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I'm so curious. I've been watching other podcasts today. And

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I found myself getting jealous of the people that just

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get to sit there and listen. And then I remembered

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I was recording with you today. And I'm like, so excited. Yes.

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Okay, so we're going to be talking about women in black.

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Okay. Oh, my God.

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Okay. I'm so excited.

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So many questions already.

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It's not like the movie. Is it Lady in Black?

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Woman in Black.

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Is it Woman in Black with Harry Potter in it?

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It's not that one. Okay. We're talking about real ghosts, basically.

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Oh, my God. You only hear about the women in white.

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I know. So I was so excited to kick off

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October with... And do like something a little different, not

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woman in white. We're going woman in black.

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Fuck yes.

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Because it's emo season. Yes. So we're starting off with

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one right here in the nasty PNW in Yakima, Washington.

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That's about two hours southeast of Seattle. For those of

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you who don't might not know where that is. Have

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you been to Yakima?

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Not intentionally. I'm not avoiding it.

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I accidentally ended up there one day and I didn't

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want to.

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If I have been there, I've not been aware of

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it is what I meant to say.

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I don't think I have either. I think it's a

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little too, like I've only been to like Seattle and

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like the west parts of Washington. I haven't been east.

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Yakima's first ghost was reported in the Yakima Herald in 1897.

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She was said to be a soundless, fast, tall figure

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in a black dress, frightening anyone who spotted her on

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Natchez Avenue.

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Natchez Avenue?

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Natchez. Yeah, it looks like not Natchez. It's N-A-C-H-E-S, but

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I looked up like local pronunciation and they say Natchez.

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A fast ghost is very scary to me. I know.

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And soundless, too.

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So you're really only aware if you're seeing that out

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of the corner of your eye.

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And tall. The whole description is spooky.

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Wow.

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And it gets more spooky because people also claim to

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have seen her shapeshift into a huge black hog. Stop.

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Earning her the name Hog Devil.

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Oh my God. Okay. Well, I can't speak for her.

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I don't know if I would love to be called

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hog devil. Maybe I would actually, I think after a

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certain point.

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If you're like purposely transforming into a hog, I don't know.

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That, oh my God. Okay. I'm going to let you

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keep going. This is so interesting to me. Okay.

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The other thing I was picturing is like not her

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shape shifting, but her just crouching and like Running along

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the ground. And I don't know.

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Yes.

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I don't know.

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And if she's going so fast, like and if you're

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not fully able to catch her, maybe. Yeah. That would

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look like a hog possibly.

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Yeah. Because like, I don't know, like a wild black hog.

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I don't know how many of those are like in Washington.

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Maybe in 1897 there were. So townspeople formed mobs to

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try and hunt down this phantom woman hog. Officers promising

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to arrest her if found. Like, what if she's in

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hog form, though?

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Yes, taking a hog to jail, literally. I honestly, I

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wouldn't put it past even a small town today. I

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could see that happening.

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Like putting handcuffs on a hog.

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Yeah, that sounds like an idiom.

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Lipstick on a pig. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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They did eventually catch a woman dressed in black out

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at night. She confessed to sneaking out to meet a lover.

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Of course, naturally. Was she what the Yakima townspeople were

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seeing in the streets at night? Or was that just

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an easier explanation for what people were seeing?

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Did she admit? Did she like claim the hog devil identity?

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I don't think she did. She just claimed that she

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had been going out at night to see a lover.

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So I don't know how that explains the hog part

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of it.

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I don't know.

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Or could it have been a young prankster dressing in

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his sister's clothing, intentionally scaring passerbys? Because that also happened. Oh,

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my gosh.

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Oh, okay. I'm here for the spooky, but I kind

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of love that more than it being a ghost.

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I know. Just this little boy, like, taking his sister's

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black dress and running around town.

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That's hilarious.

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It's cute. But yeah, so that did happen as well.

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So we don't know the exact explanation. Was it either

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these two people or were they just in addition to

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seeing the hog devil, woman in black? Not a clue.

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But that's that little story from Yakima. That's all the

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info I have.

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Oh, my gosh. I love that. I really hope it

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was the boy dressing up. And I want it to

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be a ghost. But I think it would be even

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better if it was just some little prankster.

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But like, how do you explain it being so tall

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and soundly? And because the little boy is not going

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to be soundless. Maybe the lady sneaking out.

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But that's a good point.

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They say she's like as fast as the wind to

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like very fast. So I think they're all different things.

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Yeah, you're probably right.

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I'm here to believe in the hog devil.

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It's definitely an image.

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Ooh, Halloween costume.

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Yes, so niche. Do you think that when you are

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shapeshifting like that, as you do as a ghost, do

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you think you get to choose what animal you're shapeshifting into?

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Or do you think it's like, do you think it's

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a kind of assigned thing?

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Or something. I don't know. I think if you're, if

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you have the power to shapeshift yourself, like, if you're

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making that happen, then you would. But if someone, like,

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cursed you, maybe, to transform, then you wouldn't.

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That's a really good point.

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So maybe she was cursed. Because I don't know if

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I would choose to be a hog.

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Yeah. Not my first choice, for sure. No offense to hogs.

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I would be a bat, 100%. No questions.

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Like, Oh, that's a good one. That's good. I don't

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know what I would be. Maybe I would be a hog.

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So we're going to talk about a couple different women

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in black from other parts of the country and the world.

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Now we're heading to the opposite side of the country,

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to the east, to Sleepy Hollow in New York. Oh, lovely.

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I don't know enough about Sleepy Hollow. It's just so iconic.

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There's so much imagery that already comes to mind.

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Yes. I've never been there. I'm kind of obsessed with it,

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mostly because of the movie with Johnny Depp. That's been

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one of my favorite movies since I was a little kid,

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which is creepy, but it's a fact. I just love it.

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And I loved... I remember... in elementary school the library

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and like reading us a little like kids book of

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sleepy hollow and i yes just loved it i'm obsessed

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i don't know why it's a.

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Great story i have a memory of the the a

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book like that and i feel like there was a

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disney movie like an animated one.

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Yeah i think there is yeah like i remember watching Yes,

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headless horsemen, all of that. But we're not here to

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talk about that specifically today.

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Okay.

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00:12:40.409 --> 00:12:43.159
We're going to talk about something a little different that

235
00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:45.879
you might not have heard of in connection with Sleepy Hollow.

236
00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:52.360
In 1899, then known as North Tarrytown, was haunted by

237
00:12:52.379 --> 00:12:56.820
a woman in black. She was spotted roaming the streets

238
00:12:57.139 --> 00:13:00.889
and even coming out of the cemetery, the spooky Sleepy

239
00:13:00.929 --> 00:13:04.700
Hollow Cemetery, which I'm dying to go to someday. Her

240
00:13:04.789 --> 00:13:07.480
face was veiled, so no one knew who she was,

241
00:13:07.860 --> 00:13:10.980
but they were scared of her. That was like the

242
00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:16.259
most like fourth grade writing I've ever done. No one

243
00:13:16.299 --> 00:13:18.820
knew who she was, but they were scared of her.

244
00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:20.360
It gets the point across.

245
00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:24.460
Oh, God. I'm not taking it back. The only really

246
00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:26.759
bad thing I found that she did was one woman

247
00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:31.080
claimed this woman in black threw acid at her.

248
00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:32.220
Oh, wow.

249
00:13:32.379 --> 00:13:34.480
Which was like apparently back in that day, that was

250
00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:37.970
like a thing people did. I hate that. I hate

251
00:13:37.990 --> 00:13:41.990
that so much. Why? I don't know. Like as an

252
00:13:42.049 --> 00:13:46.529
assault on somebody, I don't know why you would do that. Yeah.

253
00:13:46.690 --> 00:13:49.879
And then like woman on woman, ghost or not, that's

254
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:51.259
kind of crazy. I know.

255
00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:54.340
Maybe she was just so beautiful. She was jealous or something.

256
00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:54.659
I don't know.

257
00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.519
Thankfully, this woman who got the acid thrown on her

258
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.419
was okay. But police started searching for this mysterious woman

259
00:14:02.470 --> 00:14:05.149
in black now because of this assault.

260
00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:08.190
I just had a thought because you said maybe she

261
00:14:08.230 --> 00:14:10.610
was just so pretty and the woman in black was jealous.

262
00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:13.029
And now I'm thinking of the woman in black maybe

263
00:14:13.070 --> 00:14:16.490
being cursed into being a hog. Maybe there's like a

264
00:14:16.610 --> 00:14:17.429
theme here.

265
00:14:17.750 --> 00:14:18.909
Maybe. Possibly.

266
00:14:19.269 --> 00:14:23.409
With like vanity and... Ooh, I like that.

267
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:28.799
I mean, I don't like that, but I like that theory. Right. Okay,

268
00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:33.539
so I'm going to read you a little excerpt from SleepyHollowCountry.com

269
00:14:34.419 --> 00:14:36.750
where this little article about the woman in black is.

270
00:14:37.370 --> 00:14:40.649
Late one night, two frightened citizens came running into the

271
00:14:40.690 --> 00:14:44.210
police station sounding the alarm. The woman in black was

272
00:14:44.330 --> 00:14:49.529
out and she was in Beekman Walton's yard. Beekman Walton.

273
00:14:50.990 --> 00:14:54.870
What a name. Chief Minnerly and his constables wasted no

274
00:14:54.929 --> 00:14:57.970
time searching for her where a small crowd had gathered.

275
00:14:59.009 --> 00:15:03.250
She was still and sitting quietly on Walton's woodpile, head

276
00:15:03.330 --> 00:15:07.110
turned and silent. Chief Minnerly called out to her and

277
00:15:07.190 --> 00:15:11.330
told her that her nighttime wanderings were done. No more

278
00:15:11.389 --> 00:15:15.149
would she haunt the citizens of North Tarrytown. He was

279
00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:18.700
taking her in. Reaching out, he grabbed her arm and

280
00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:22.100
attempted to pull her up. The figure crumbled under his

281
00:15:22.139 --> 00:15:25.659
grasp and what was once a seated figure turned into

282
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:31.200
a constructed effigy of cloth and padding. Her loose fabric

283
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:32.519
arm hung in his hand.

284
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:34.059
That is so eerie.

285
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:37.299
It is eerie. And at first when I read this,

286
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.639
I was like, oh, she just like disappeared. She like melted,

287
00:15:40.659 --> 00:15:44.730
you know? But I guess it was just someone who

288
00:15:44.789 --> 00:15:49.330
had made like a scarecrow of the... of a woman

289
00:15:49.370 --> 00:15:50.210
in black.

290
00:15:50.570 --> 00:15:56.490
Oh gotcha i also thought she vanished.

291
00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:00.360
Right it's spooky but no someone just made this so

292
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.059
the chief and the townspeople concluded that this was just

293
00:16:03.120 --> 00:16:05.879
a prank there was no more reports of the woman

294
00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.429
in black after that night interesting but i was thinking

295
00:16:09.470 --> 00:16:14.210
like maybe the prank was based on real events yeah

296
00:16:14.970 --> 00:16:17.990
Because who threw the acid? Was that victim in on

297
00:16:18.029 --> 00:16:20.490
the prank? That wasn't like that doesn't seem like a

298
00:16:20.529 --> 00:16:22.230
prank you would pull on yourself.

299
00:16:23.230 --> 00:16:27.120
That's so strange. And then also to make a scarecrow

300
00:16:27.620 --> 00:16:29.960
randomly of a woman in black. I don't know how

301
00:16:30.100 --> 00:16:34.539
common that was at the time, but that's not the

302
00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:36.779
first thing I think of when I think of scarecrows.

303
00:16:37.500 --> 00:16:40.549
So like that has to be all connected, right?

304
00:16:40.850 --> 00:16:44.919
Yeah, like definitely someone made this. I think is a

305
00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.519
prank like based on the reports of people seeing this. Yeah.

306
00:16:48.539 --> 00:16:51.899
Because also a little figure that's just sitting there on

307
00:16:51.940 --> 00:16:54.879
a wood pile is not going to be like chasing

308
00:16:54.940 --> 00:16:58.419
people around town and scaring them like that. Unless.

309
00:16:58.820 --> 00:16:59.139
Right.

310
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:04.089
Their imaginations just ran wild. But I don't... I don't know.

311
00:17:04.789 --> 00:17:08.859
So it was just like a very... an unserious move

312
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:10.920
to be like hey there's these reports this woman got

313
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.619
acid in her face i'm gonna make a scarecrow and

314
00:17:13.660 --> 00:17:17.660
like prank the cops about this yeah nice okay.

315
00:17:17.539 --> 00:17:20.359
But then that gives them like an explanation like a

316
00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:24.940
rational explanation oh it was this the whole time and

317
00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:27.579
they said there was no more reports of her being

318
00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:31.240
seen after that but i'm like well is that because

319
00:17:31.900 --> 00:17:34.240
the cops and everyone now think it was just a prank.

320
00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.200
So like, why would you report if you did see it?

321
00:17:37.349 --> 00:17:37.789
Yeah.

322
00:17:37.950 --> 00:17:39.509
Like they're not going to believe you now.

323
00:17:40.210 --> 00:17:43.809
Yeah. I don't know. That's really, um, what a confusing

324
00:17:43.869 --> 00:17:46.390
time to be alive. It would have been back then.

325
00:17:47.549 --> 00:17:48.390
You just don't read it.

326
00:17:49.130 --> 00:17:51.549
And it was in the newspaper too, which I think

327
00:17:51.630 --> 00:17:54.799
is the, like both of these first two stories were

328
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.460
in the newspaper just about ghosts. Yeah.

329
00:17:58.480 --> 00:17:58.640
Yeah.

330
00:17:59.210 --> 00:18:02.029
I know what I'm doing, though, when I finally go

331
00:18:02.089 --> 00:18:05.750
visit Sleepy Hollow. I'm definitely looking out for a woman

332
00:18:05.789 --> 00:18:07.690
in black and not just a headless horseman.

333
00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:09.210
Oh, absolutely.

334
00:18:10.589 --> 00:18:14.210
So now we're going out of the country. There is

335
00:18:14.250 --> 00:18:18.710
an urban legend in Bangkok, the capital of Thailand, if

336
00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:24.970
you're nasty. The women in black of Wat Samian Nari.

337
00:18:25.730 --> 00:18:29.900
Two women spirits dressed in modern black outfits. So it's

338
00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:34.599
not like the spooky, like vintage black dress type. Like

339
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:38.640
this is way more modern. No veil. They like to

340
00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:42.920
catch taxis late at night to Wat Samyan Nari, which

341
00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:46.880
is a temple. They are silent the whole car ride

342
00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:50.539
until they disappear upon reaching their destination.

343
00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:54.279
Are they always together? Yes. Oh my gosh.

344
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.119
The legend says that this is two sisters who were

345
00:18:58.180 --> 00:19:00.480
hit by a train on their way to their mother's

346
00:19:00.539 --> 00:19:05.240
funeral at the temple in the 90s. The 1990s. Some

347
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:09.680
people recall the gruesome story being published in the Khao

348
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.759
Sot newspaper, but it could not be found in the

349
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.759
paper's archives. But those only dated back to 1997, so

350
00:19:17.779 --> 00:19:21.059
I'm like, could it have happened before that? Because that's

351
00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:22.240
super late 90s, so.

352
00:19:23.950 --> 00:19:24.599
Oh, wow.

353
00:19:25.019 --> 00:19:28.200
Oh, my gosh. So part of me, like in another life,

354
00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:31.559
I speak like eight languages. And this is one of

355
00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:33.859
the reasons why I want to because I want to

356
00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:37.779
get into the shit that happened in Bangkok and find

357
00:19:37.819 --> 00:19:39.680
out what happened to these two women. And I don't

358
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.069
know how to read probably a lot of the stuff

359
00:19:43.190 --> 00:19:46.750
that I'd be able to find the information. I'm so curious.

360
00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:50.920
It's frustrating because they have like... their first and last

361
00:19:50.980 --> 00:19:53.539
names and obviously if i go to like google them

362
00:19:53.740 --> 00:19:56.910
all that comes up is like these stories so i

363
00:19:56.930 --> 00:20:00.430
didn't see any like death reports or anything like that

364
00:20:00.529 --> 00:20:01.650
for these two women.

365
00:20:01.910 --> 00:20:04.630
Does anything bad happen after they disappear or um yeah

366
00:20:04.650 --> 00:20:08.089
i Oh, fuck.

367
00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:12.809
Okay. The most disturbing part of the story is after

368
00:20:12.890 --> 00:20:16.710
the taxi drivers are left wondering where their passengers went

369
00:20:17.230 --> 00:20:21.930
and their payment. Oh, yeah. They probably want that. They

370
00:20:21.950 --> 00:20:25.730
will then see the women crawling on the tracks because

371
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.160
there are train tracks around the temple. But it's just

372
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:32.279
their top halves.

373
00:20:33.970 --> 00:20:34.450
Oh, no.

374
00:20:34.470 --> 00:20:40.130
Because the train did, unfortunately, run them over and cut

375
00:20:40.190 --> 00:20:40.950
them in half.

376
00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:42.369
Oh, no.

377
00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:49.769
Yeah, it's real gruesome. And so the men who are

378
00:20:49.809 --> 00:20:52.230
just like, okay, where did these women went? They're looking

379
00:20:52.269 --> 00:20:57.390
around and they see two women crawling, dragging themselves on

380
00:20:57.450 --> 00:21:00.569
the train tracks. I would die. I would pee myself

381
00:21:00.630 --> 00:21:00.910
and die.

382
00:21:01.890 --> 00:21:04.880
Oh, yeah. And like, I don't know. I don't know

383
00:21:05.309 --> 00:21:07.569
here if that happened in this country. I don't know

384
00:21:07.609 --> 00:21:09.789
how many people would believe me. You and Caitlin would

385
00:21:09.829 --> 00:21:10.309
believe me.

386
00:21:10.630 --> 00:21:10.910
Oh, yeah.

387
00:21:10.950 --> 00:21:15.279
Maybe some of the people in our space would believe me.

388
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.779
But like, that's not. that would traumatize you. And then

389
00:21:18.819 --> 00:21:20.619
who do you talk to about it? Right.

390
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.059
Well, one guy, I didn't really put the full story

391
00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:26.599
in because like kind of all the taxi driver stories

392
00:21:26.660 --> 00:21:28.819
are a little the same. But one guy, he like

393
00:21:28.900 --> 00:21:31.640
passed out in his car when he saw them. And

394
00:21:31.720 --> 00:21:33.890
so then he was like waking up to the cops,

395
00:21:33.930 --> 00:21:36.829
like knocking on his window. And so he told the

396
00:21:36.849 --> 00:21:38.930
cops what had happened. And they were like, oh, he's

397
00:21:38.990 --> 00:21:41.769
just drunk and like passed out in his taxi car.

398
00:21:42.710 --> 00:21:43.509
That's so rough.

399
00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.910
It's not really something people are likely to believe, especially

400
00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:50.779
like nowadays. Maybe if we were back in the 1800s,

401
00:21:50.769 --> 00:21:52.769
people might have believed it.

402
00:21:52.789 --> 00:21:54.170
Right. It would be in the newspaper.

403
00:21:54.809 --> 00:21:57.130
But then, you know, someone would make a prank about

404
00:21:57.210 --> 00:21:58.710
it and they would blame it on that. So I

405
00:21:58.759 --> 00:21:59.039
don't know.

406
00:21:59.359 --> 00:21:59.859
Damn.

407
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:04.460
So as if that wouldn't be scary enough, one taxi

408
00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.940
driver stalled on the tracks when he was trying to

409
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.359
get away. So he's seeing these women crawling towards him

410
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:11.960
and he's trying to get out of the car because

411
00:22:12.220 --> 00:22:14.980
his car won't start. But he realizes he can't. So

412
00:22:15.019 --> 00:22:18.380
he's trapped in the car on the train tracks. His

413
00:22:18.460 --> 00:22:24.529
car won't start. And he has mutilated ghosts crawling at him. Yeah.

414
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.430
But finally, he does get the car to start. He

415
00:22:27.450 --> 00:22:30.990
gets away before the train comes. So he got away

416
00:22:31.069 --> 00:22:35.329
with his life, but he quit his taxi driving job

417
00:22:35.390 --> 00:22:35.849
after that.

418
00:22:36.130 --> 00:22:37.230
Well, you would have to.

419
00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:38.809
You said, fuck that.

420
00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:42.170
You would simply have to. Yeah, never again.

421
00:22:43.109 --> 00:22:47.490
Part of me believes that more, like his believes his

422
00:22:47.539 --> 00:22:51.920
story more because he quit his job. Because like, you're

423
00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:54.420
not just going to make that up if you wanted

424
00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:56.410
to quit. I don't think.

425
00:22:56.490 --> 00:22:59.670
No, I don't think so. That would be crazy. And, like,

426
00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:02.289
I felt the anxiety as you're talking about him not

427
00:23:02.309 --> 00:23:04.769
being able to get away. We've all had that dream

428
00:23:04.849 --> 00:23:06.849
where we are trying to run but can't.

429
00:23:06.890 --> 00:23:07.670
But can't.

430
00:23:08.289 --> 00:23:12.420
Oh, my God. Oh, I would never go back. Never, ever. No.

431
00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:19.180
All righty. Well, do you want to go back to America?

432
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:21.099
I guess if we have to.

433
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.940
I was going to say, if you're making me.

434
00:23:25.369 --> 00:23:27.529
But we're back on the East Coast again this time

435
00:23:28.150 --> 00:23:33.750
at Fort Warren on George's Island in Boston Harbor, which

436
00:23:33.809 --> 00:23:35.930
I assume is in Boston. Okay.

437
00:23:36.450 --> 00:23:36.789
Right?

438
00:23:37.269 --> 00:23:39.250
I would assume. I don't know. I guess I didn't

439
00:23:39.269 --> 00:23:39.609
look it up.

440
00:23:39.609 --> 00:23:42.750
Unless it's like a Kansas City, Missouri kind of situation.

441
00:23:43.930 --> 00:23:45.390
It's adjacent to Boston.

442
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:47.490
So basically Boston, yeah?

443
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.859
It's like, yeah. Okay. Boston B-side.

444
00:23:51.420 --> 00:23:53.700
So Fort Warren was built at the beginning of the

445
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.779
Civil War. And it was named after Joseph Warren, a

446
00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:02.099
patriot who sent Paul Revere to warn the British to

447
00:24:02.140 --> 00:24:06.039
warn to warn the British to warn of the British

448
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:09.279
arrival in the Revolutionary War, which I thought that was

449
00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:10.480
kind of cool.

450
00:24:10.539 --> 00:24:12.680
The famous the British are coming, the British are coming

451
00:24:12.940 --> 00:24:14.089
or a different one.

452
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.109
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul Revere did that, right? That was

453
00:24:18.150 --> 00:24:18.549
his thing.

454
00:24:18.910 --> 00:24:19.329
Yeah. Yeah.

455
00:24:19.789 --> 00:24:22.670
So this guy Warren sent him to go do that.

456
00:24:23.089 --> 00:24:23.509
Okay.

457
00:24:23.650 --> 00:24:25.789
So I thought that was a fun little history nugget

458
00:24:25.809 --> 00:24:29.250
for y'all. Fort Warren was a military training camp and

459
00:24:29.349 --> 00:24:32.869
prison for those against the Union during the Civil War.

460
00:24:33.690 --> 00:24:36.980
In 1950, it was decommissioned and sold to the state

461
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.839
of Massachusetts as recreational ground. So this story is about Mrs.

462
00:24:41.980 --> 00:24:48.339
Melanie Lanier. Her husband was a Confederate soldier imprisoned at

463
00:24:48.400 --> 00:24:48.799
the fort.

464
00:24:49.779 --> 00:24:50.210
Boo.

465
00:24:51.579 --> 00:24:56.680
She decided to prison break him. Damn. Yeah. So I'm like, dang,

466
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.660
they went hard. Women. I know. It gets crazy. This

467
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.789
is crazy. She dressed as a man and used rope

468
00:25:04.890 --> 00:25:08.089
to hoist herself over the wall. She found her husband

469
00:25:08.150 --> 00:25:10.509
and some of the other prisoners and they began to

470
00:25:10.569 --> 00:25:15.089
dig a tunnel heading towards the prison armory. And their

471
00:25:15.130 --> 00:25:19.170
plan was to arm themselves and overthrow the prison to escape.

472
00:25:19.910 --> 00:25:22.150
Dude, okay. I don't want to be on the wrong

473
00:25:22.190 --> 00:25:28.569
side of history. But Melanie Lanier, that's pretty hot. I'm sorry.

474
00:25:28.589 --> 00:25:30.130
That's pretty fucking hot.

475
00:25:30.150 --> 00:25:34.630
I know. It reminds me of like a modern day

476
00:25:34.769 --> 00:25:37.670
book or something where like the heroine is like going

477
00:25:37.710 --> 00:25:38.829
to save her man.

478
00:25:38.849 --> 00:25:40.450
I don't know. Yeah.

479
00:25:40.470 --> 00:25:43.369
I had mixed feelings too because I'm like, but they

480
00:25:43.410 --> 00:25:48.549
were confederates but like yeah this is pretty cool it's

481
00:25:48.589 --> 00:25:52.650
very mulan yeah yeah like dressing as a man oh

482
00:25:52.670 --> 00:26:00.009
my gosh or she's the man with amanda bines is

483
00:26:00.049 --> 00:26:03.869
that the movie yes yeah such a good movie i

484
00:26:03.950 --> 00:26:07.890
think if it didn't age well don't judge me yeah

485
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:10.660
She kind of had like some help along the way, too.

486
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.680
So it wasn't like just her. She had to like

487
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:16.480
hide out, you know, as she like got closer to

488
00:26:17.539 --> 00:26:20.980
prison breaking her husband. But when they were digging, they

489
00:26:21.049 --> 00:26:24.789
were caught by Union guards. And Melanie ended up in

490
00:26:24.829 --> 00:26:27.410
a standoff with one of them. It was like an

491
00:26:27.549 --> 00:26:30.410
old Western standoff. They both had guns.

492
00:26:31.230 --> 00:26:34.309
On the East Coast, there was an old Western standoff. OK, cool, cool.

493
00:26:34.450 --> 00:26:35.769
Does that make sense to everybody?

494
00:26:36.410 --> 00:26:36.849
Yeah, yeah.

495
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.200
No, so they did both have guns. She fired, but

496
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.400
instead of hitting the guard, she accidentally hit her husband

497
00:26:44.660 --> 00:26:45.220
and killed him.

498
00:26:47.329 --> 00:26:49.950
Was it an accident? Are we sure it was an accident?

499
00:26:50.250 --> 00:26:52.329
I mean, I don't know. She went all the way there.

500
00:26:52.410 --> 00:26:54.470
Did she go all the way there just to kill him?

501
00:26:54.650 --> 00:26:55.470
Probably not.

502
00:26:56.650 --> 00:27:00.970
I really don't think so because Melanie was arrested and

503
00:27:01.029 --> 00:27:03.410
sentenced to death by hanging for treason.

504
00:27:03.430 --> 00:27:05.190
That's rough.

505
00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:08.480
So I don't think She wanted that to happen.

506
00:27:08.579 --> 00:27:11.440
Yeah. Fair. All around, that sucks.

507
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.839
I know. Her last request was to grant her the

508
00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:18.420
dignity of dying in women's clothing because she was dressed

509
00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:21.650
as a man. Wow. So they found her a simple

510
00:27:21.750 --> 00:27:25.970
black gown. She was buried on the island where they

511
00:27:26.029 --> 00:27:28.769
say her guilt-ridden spirit still roams.

512
00:27:29.549 --> 00:27:33.460
Oh, man. Can you pretend that it was for a

513
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.680
cause that, you know, we feel more ethically, like, morally

514
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:38.359
okay about?

515
00:27:38.380 --> 00:27:39.420
Can we rewrite the book?

516
00:27:40.380 --> 00:27:44.380
Can you imagine getting that far and then fucking up

517
00:27:44.740 --> 00:27:48.630
that bad at the very end? No. I mean, what

518
00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:50.349
are you going to do, like, if you're at a

519
00:27:50.650 --> 00:27:53.630
standoff like that? But, like, she tried.

520
00:27:53.730 --> 00:27:54.269
She shot.

521
00:27:54.289 --> 00:27:57.490
And then just, oof. That would suck.

522
00:27:58.029 --> 00:28:01.069
It's like typical man though to like be in the way,

523
00:28:01.089 --> 00:28:01.670
you know?

524
00:28:01.690 --> 00:28:08.299
My bullet didn't hit you. You hit my bullet.

525
00:28:08.380 --> 00:28:12.519
Yeah. God, I told you not to stand there like 5,000 times.

526
00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.200
Oh, she was pissed then. She was probably so mad.

527
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:18.789
Oh, God. Why did he do this to me? The

528
00:28:21.569 --> 00:28:25.819
only like, good thing I see about it is, like,

529
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.799
they both are on the other side now.

530
00:28:29.019 --> 00:28:29.339
So.

531
00:28:29.619 --> 00:28:32.059
Yeah. They didn't really have to, like, wait too long

532
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.759
to be together, I guess. Still sucks.

533
00:28:35.539 --> 00:28:39.359
And now they're on the union side in the afterlife. Right.

534
00:28:39.380 --> 00:28:42.339
Because they came to Jesus. No.

535
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:43.000
Yes.

536
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:48.059
Maybe no Jesus. Wait. No, Jesus isn't the problem. Humans are.

537
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:53.089
We should... We should just... dip out of this while

538
00:28:53.130 --> 00:28:55.130
we can leave jesus.

539
00:28:54.769 --> 00:29:00.569
Alone so after her death soldiers at the fort saw

540
00:29:00.630 --> 00:29:04.559
the apparition of a lady in black they would hear

541
00:29:04.630 --> 00:29:09.299
her voice in the prison area they witnessed stones rolling

542
00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:14.240
across the floor for no reason and once found five

543
00:29:14.339 --> 00:29:17.940
footprints in the snow that came from nowhere and went

544
00:29:18.059 --> 00:29:22.740
nowhere So that's pretty ominous.

545
00:29:23.500 --> 00:29:24.180
Yeah.

546
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:30.009
Some soldiers were court-martialed for shooting at nothing, claiming they

547
00:29:30.049 --> 00:29:34.029
saw someone dressed in black, and one guard abandoned his

548
00:29:34.130 --> 00:29:36.970
post because he was chased by a lady in black.

549
00:29:37.650 --> 00:29:42.359
Oh my gosh. like these soldiers are shooting at things

550
00:29:42.500 --> 00:29:46.480
and like abandoning their guard shifts because they're seeing a

551
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.539
lady in black that's crazy i.

552
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.609
Also can we just say like As you're talking through

553
00:29:52.769 --> 00:29:55.329
all of these stories in succession, it is kind of

554
00:29:55.529 --> 00:30:00.890
crazy the gaslighting powers of these ghosts on people. It's

555
00:30:01.109 --> 00:30:01.970
kind of wild.

556
00:30:02.230 --> 00:30:07.059
I mean, that's like the perk of being a ghost, though. Yeah.

557
00:30:07.680 --> 00:30:11.559
But there is no record of this woman's death, with

558
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.240
it being the Civil War and a woman, a woman

559
00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:19.339
accused of treason... It probably would have been like pretty

560
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:20.000
big news.

561
00:30:20.869 --> 00:30:21.460
Yeah.

562
00:30:21.829 --> 00:30:25.190
But there's no record of it. In fact, the first

563
00:30:25.269 --> 00:30:27.849
mention of this story was in a book written by

564
00:30:27.869 --> 00:30:34.789
a historian, maybe loose quotes on that, in 1944 with

565
00:30:34.869 --> 00:30:39.829
the caveat, quote, I herewith offer the reader the legend

566
00:30:39.890 --> 00:30:44.099
without the slightest guarantee that any part of it is true,

567
00:30:44.619 --> 00:30:45.339
end quote.

568
00:30:46.059 --> 00:30:52.140
Oh, I love that. So that's, that's gorgeous. I love that.

569
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:57.779
So basically a historian, he was like a historian, but

570
00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:01.720
he kind of added this own, his own legend and

571
00:31:01.819 --> 00:31:05.779
flair onto it. He did put the caveat in there. So,

572
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:06.579
you know.

573
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:09.299
Yeah. And so is it, is it based on like

574
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:12.180
what he had heard though and learned, like kind of

575
00:31:12.220 --> 00:31:16.269
like a report secondhand with a little spooky story flair?

576
00:31:16.410 --> 00:31:19.240
That's kind of, what I always think but I mean

577
00:31:19.259 --> 00:31:22.259
I have no way to know for sure yeah it's

578
00:31:22.299 --> 00:31:24.519
kind of like that too with like the Shanghai tunnels

579
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.759
is totally the guy who wrote the book on it

580
00:31:28.160 --> 00:31:31.869
that's the first record of it so it's like wasn't

581
00:31:31.910 --> 00:31:34.529
there no record because it was shady shit and he

582
00:31:34.609 --> 00:31:38.369
had like heard stories passed down from older generations and

583
00:31:38.410 --> 00:31:41.789
wrote about it or did he just make it all up.

584
00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:47.349
That's uh Definitely a question, a question for the books,

585
00:31:47.589 --> 00:31:49.630
the other books that maybe someone else will write someday

586
00:31:49.650 --> 00:31:52.329
and we'll get real answers because Shanghai tunnels still, I

587
00:31:52.349 --> 00:31:56.630
remember learning about those for the first time. And another thing,

588
00:31:56.670 --> 00:31:58.710
I just, I couldn't wrap my head around it. I'm like,

589
00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:02.759
this doesn't make, the context I was given was like,

590
00:32:02.779 --> 00:32:04.960
it was lacking. It was lacking. I was just kind

591
00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:07.480
of told like, well, there's just these tunnels and then

592
00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:10.819
they would take people for labor. And I there's still

593
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:13.900
so many pieces that are missing from it for me

594
00:32:13.960 --> 00:32:17.789
to accept it as it's presented to us, if that

595
00:32:17.930 --> 00:32:18.329
makes sense.

596
00:32:18.410 --> 00:32:22.049
It's a crazy story. And it's like, we've done an

597
00:32:22.089 --> 00:32:24.630
episode on it, but I let another podcast kind of

598
00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:27.769
cover it because I was very hesitant to cover it

599
00:32:27.789 --> 00:32:29.779
because I'm like, I'm literally just going to spoil it

600
00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:32.420
for everyone because that's what I like to do. Like

601
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:34.359
I do in all these stories. I'm like, well, but

602
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:37.799
this is maybe the other explanation for it. But yeah,

603
00:32:37.819 --> 00:32:41.170
because I found... When I dug into it super deep,

604
00:32:41.230 --> 00:32:43.950
I found the guy who wrote the books about it.

605
00:32:44.490 --> 00:32:46.369
He like started all the tours too.

606
00:32:47.329 --> 00:32:51.009
Oh my God. He's just an influencer. Yeah.

607
00:32:51.289 --> 00:32:53.329
It's hard to tell. Like, did he just make it

608
00:32:53.430 --> 00:32:56.930
up or is he telling something that actually happened that

609
00:32:56.950 --> 00:32:58.440
needs to be told? I don't know.

610
00:32:58.880 --> 00:32:59.279
I don't know.

611
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.180
So yeah, it's tricky.

612
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:02.700
Totally.

613
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.720
I don't know if this would change your mind at all.

614
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:09.509
It's another maybe clue to the puzzle. So The name

615
00:33:09.630 --> 00:33:14.880
Melanie comes from a Greek word meaning black or dark. Oh,

616
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:16.480
that was her name, Melanie.

617
00:33:17.380 --> 00:33:18.480
What a coincidence.

618
00:33:18.500 --> 00:33:22.299
I know. So did someone, you know, pick that name

619
00:33:22.380 --> 00:33:27.740
for a reason? Was that her real name? We don't know. Well,

620
00:33:27.809 --> 00:33:31.369
that's my stories of these women in black for you.

621
00:33:32.430 --> 00:33:36.789
This is wonderful. I want to see more women in

622
00:33:36.809 --> 00:33:44.480
black representation on podcasts. And I mean, I never hear

623
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.059
it truly is always the woman in white.

624
00:33:47.079 --> 00:33:49.059
Or like a gray lady.

625
00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:52.809
Or a gray lady. Yes. Yes. These are great. The

626
00:33:52.849 --> 00:33:57.769
Thailand one specifically is very I think that's the most

627
00:33:57.849 --> 00:33:59.579
intriguing to me of all these.

628
00:33:59.859 --> 00:34:01.519
I really love that one, too.

629
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:02.880
It's so modern.

630
00:34:02.900 --> 00:34:07.140
I mean, it's presented as an urban legend. But I

631
00:34:07.180 --> 00:34:10.099
don't know. I feel like sometimes urban legends might have

632
00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:11.380
some truth to them.

633
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:17.610
Totally. If you had to identify most with one of

634
00:34:17.630 --> 00:34:20.210
these women, who do you identify with most?

635
00:34:22.449 --> 00:34:24.550
I'm like, I want to say the one in Sleepy

636
00:34:24.590 --> 00:34:26.869
Hollow just because I would love to be there and

637
00:34:26.889 --> 00:34:31.940
like be the Headless Horseman's girlfriend. And yeah, that's what

638
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:32.599
I'm going to go with.

639
00:34:33.539 --> 00:34:36.530
And when you say the Headless Horseman's, Girlfriend? Do you

640
00:34:36.590 --> 00:34:38.809
mean Johnny Depp's girlfriend?

641
00:34:39.190 --> 00:34:41.230
Oh, no, he was Ichabod Crane.

642
00:34:41.630 --> 00:34:43.510
Was he? I don't know the characters.

643
00:34:43.570 --> 00:34:48.400
Yes. I have a huge crush on the Headless Horseman.

644
00:34:48.420 --> 00:34:54.940
This is so embarrassing. Oh, my God. Okay, my crazy

645
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.300
brain right now needs to like look up his name,

646
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.719
even though I know him well. And you're gonna know

647
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:02.380
who it is. You've never seen?

648
00:35:02.389 --> 00:35:04.880
I don't think I have, actually.

649
00:35:04.900 --> 00:35:07.960
I kind of... Christopher Walken. I didn't even need to

650
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:11.039
get there. I didn't get there, but I just remembered

651
00:35:11.059 --> 00:35:13.840
it in my brain. Okay, so Christopher Walken. Yes, I

652
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:17.079
have a crush on him. Don't judge me. He's the

653
00:35:17.099 --> 00:35:17.909
headless horseman.

654
00:35:17.929 --> 00:35:26.650
I'm not judging you. I'm 100% not judging you. I'm

655
00:35:26.730 --> 00:35:30.590
just so surprised. But we've talked about, I think we

656
00:35:30.650 --> 00:35:35.500
both like weirdos and weird looking people, which by the way,

657
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:38.460
if you have a partner, you can't really tell them

658
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.059
that you're attracted to weird looking people because it's either

659
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:44.500
offensive or if you try to say, no, but you're

660
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.360
not weird looking, then it sounds like you're saying you're

661
00:35:46.389 --> 00:35:49.289
not attracted to them. So don't share that with your partner.

662
00:35:49.610 --> 00:35:54.809
But this is not that surprising to me. It just

663
00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:57.659
caught me off guard. I think that he's in that movie.

664
00:35:58.179 --> 00:36:00.360
is what's catching me off guard the most because I

665
00:36:00.460 --> 00:36:02.460
don't picture him playing a spooky character.

666
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.019
And he does it. Oh, he does it so well.

667
00:36:06.139 --> 00:36:09.690
You have to watch it. It's like I could live

668
00:36:09.750 --> 00:36:13.849
in that movie. Just the entire vibe is just me.

669
00:36:14.110 --> 00:36:16.389
I love it. Now I need to find it and

670
00:36:16.409 --> 00:36:17.389
watch it tonight.

671
00:36:19.250 --> 00:36:21.989
I kind of want to. I'm surprised I haven't seen it.

672
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:25.460
I definitely went through a big Johnny Depp phase. And

673
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.369
I like that story a lot. I'm not sure why

674
00:36:29.409 --> 00:36:31.889
it hasn't come across my desk ever.

675
00:36:33.030 --> 00:36:34.730
I always have to do this. I have to like

676
00:36:34.809 --> 00:36:37.659
see what year it came out. 99.

677
00:36:37.659 --> 00:36:39.300
Tim Burton. 99.

678
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:44.480
So I, yeah, yeah, yes, yes. And Tim Burton. It's

679
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.139
like has all of the things. I'm shocked that you

680
00:36:47.179 --> 00:36:49.619
haven't seen it. But so I was like 10 years

681
00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:51.610
old when this movie came out. So I was probably

682
00:36:51.650 --> 00:36:54.590
like 11 by the time it came out on VHS.

683
00:36:55.269 --> 00:36:55.420
And I.

684
00:36:56.739 --> 00:37:01.130
Remember just like watching the VHS constantly. Little 11-year-old me

685
00:37:01.690 --> 00:37:09.130
just loving gore and Christopher Walken headless. I have problems.

686
00:37:10.469 --> 00:37:17.699
I think that they're lovely problems to have. I want

687
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:20.420
the movie that I would rewatch. You want to talk

688
00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:24.420
about problems? Was Drop Dead Fred.

689
00:37:24.440 --> 00:37:30.409
Oh, yeah. See, I love that movie. And I saw

690
00:37:30.469 --> 00:37:33.800
it like very, very young. And then I didn't even

691
00:37:34.159 --> 00:37:37.519
like think about it or like see it until I

692
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:39.880
was like 20 again. And I was like, wait, wasn't

693
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:42.840
there a movie about like this thing? And I had

694
00:37:42.860 --> 00:37:45.940
like convinced myself that it didn't actually exist and that

695
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:48.300
I had made up this movie until I finally found

696
00:37:48.320 --> 00:37:48.659
it again.

697
00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:53.869
Yeah, that's and then Phoebe Cates in that. And then

698
00:37:54.269 --> 00:37:56.659
what's his name that plays Fred? Was in love with

699
00:37:56.739 --> 00:37:59.059
both of them. I was like, I need to be

700
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:01.340
both of them. I want to date both of them.

701
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.900
This is me as a child. Oh, yes. But I'm

702
00:38:03.940 --> 00:38:07.050
just like, and then the movie itself just had so

703
00:38:07.110 --> 00:38:11.190
much of everything that I love with the whimsy and

704
00:38:11.230 --> 00:38:11.849
the absurd.

705
00:38:11.869 --> 00:38:17.750
Okay, I'm getting the tarot. Oh, my God. Do you

706
00:38:17.789 --> 00:38:21.230
know what I just realized? This is like actually kind

707
00:38:21.349 --> 00:38:26.639
of crazy. I brought this tarot deck. called cat full

708
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:32.760
of spiders oh and it's by christina ricci and she

709
00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:34.559
is also in sleepy hollow.

710
00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:36.320
Stop i love her.

711
00:38:36.300 --> 00:38:40.380
So much and i also did have a major crush

712
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:41.019
on her as.

713
00:38:40.980 --> 00:38:45.280
Well sam oh wow when did she release this i.

714
00:38:45.219 --> 00:38:47.380
Feel like my mom got it for me for christmas

715
00:38:47.539 --> 00:38:48.659
this last.

716
00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:51.800
Year that's awesome i'm curious about the name.

717
00:38:51.860 --> 00:38:54.539
I know cat full of spiders i think it was

718
00:38:54.579 --> 00:38:58.289
just spooky Like she might have written about it in

719
00:38:58.329 --> 00:39:00.570
the little interpretation book.

720
00:39:01.269 --> 00:39:03.670
Oh, it says. Oh, go ahead.

721
00:39:04.210 --> 00:39:06.670
Oh, I just started reading it. And she mentioned Now

722
00:39:06.730 --> 00:39:09.829
and Then, which is like also one of my favorite movies.

723
00:39:10.429 --> 00:39:12.289
I haven't seen that. I don't know that movie.

724
00:39:12.309 --> 00:39:14.809
You don't know Now and Then? Oh, my God. I'm

725
00:39:14.849 --> 00:39:15.849
making you a list.

726
00:39:16.889 --> 00:39:17.699
Please.

727
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:20.619
That one's really good, too. It's like a childhood like.

728
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.769
coming of age but also like a little spooky they

729
00:39:24.809 --> 00:39:27.340
do like tarot and like seance in a in a

730
00:39:27.380 --> 00:39:29.360
graveyard and it's really.

731
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:33.019
Good again yeah not sure why this has not come

732
00:39:33.119 --> 00:39:36.159
across my desk before i've never heard of that.

733
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:39.420
Okay write those both down watch them immediately.

734
00:39:40.309 --> 00:39:45.070
Absolutely okay what does it say um it says the

735
00:39:45.530 --> 00:39:48.369
phrase cat full of spiders comes from a saying ritchie

736
00:39:48.510 --> 00:39:52.110
used in her youth to describe feeling anxious or, quote,

737
00:39:52.269 --> 00:39:57.460
acting crazy, serving as a metaphor for the inner experiences, traumas,

738
00:39:57.579 --> 00:40:02.440
and moments that shape a person. Still kind of funny. Like,

739
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:05.380
I wonder, cat full of spiders, like, is it like

740
00:40:05.420 --> 00:40:07.579
a cat running around like crazy because they are covered

741
00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:08.260
in spiders?

742
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:13.739
Where they literally have spiders like crawling around inside of them.

743
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.980
Inside them. That's what I picture.

744
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:19.449
That's where my brain went first. But I thought that's

745
00:40:19.489 --> 00:40:22.190
a little intense. But I think that is where my

746
00:40:22.230 --> 00:40:23.409
brain went first as well.

747
00:40:23.610 --> 00:40:25.829
It could be full of like their fur is full

748
00:40:25.869 --> 00:40:27.590
of spiders. Yeah.

749
00:40:28.130 --> 00:40:31.579
Neither of them is good. You don't want that. Yeah.

750
00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:35.059
As much as I do like spiders, I'd rather them

751
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:42.449
not crawl around on me. Especially not a lot of them. Exactly.

752
00:40:42.469 --> 00:40:44.170
I don't want to be full of spiders.

753
00:40:44.630 --> 00:40:45.489
No, thank you.

754
00:40:46.190 --> 00:40:49.860
All right. You want to send me your spooky vibes

755
00:40:49.969 --> 00:40:53.199
for the tarot about these women in black?

756
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.579
Sending. I'm going to.

757
00:40:55.519 --> 00:40:58.500
Like hold them on my chest, which is weird, but

758
00:40:58.539 --> 00:41:00.980
I'm going to kind of like fumble through them. And

759
00:41:01.019 --> 00:41:04.730
if you're feeling like a certain way, I'll stop.

760
00:41:05.389 --> 00:41:10.280
Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking where your right hand is, where your,

761
00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:11.980
is that your index finger?

762
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.199
Is it this hand?

763
00:41:13.780 --> 00:41:15.849
Yeah. Right hand. And then.

764
00:41:15.869 --> 00:41:16.530
It was here.

765
00:41:16.929 --> 00:41:19.590
Okay. Go back, like towards your right a little more.

766
00:41:20.070 --> 00:41:21.550
Out towards your right. There.

767
00:41:21.889 --> 00:41:22.070
Here?

768
00:41:22.449 --> 00:41:24.250
That one that just is on the top of the

769
00:41:24.289 --> 00:41:25.050
chunk that you pulled out.

770
00:41:25.070 --> 00:41:26.070
This one? Yeah.

771
00:41:26.250 --> 00:41:26.429
Yep.

772
00:41:27.630 --> 00:41:28.889
I'm like, I don't know if you can see me,

773
00:41:28.889 --> 00:41:29.199
but yeah.

774
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:31.119
Yeah. That's it. You're so patient.

775
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:37.239
I am very patient. Oh, we got the magician.

776
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:39.480
Oh, that's gorgeous.

777
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:42.340
Caitlin's going to be pissed because we pulled her card

778
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:44.599
without her. Or maybe that's just like her being here

779
00:41:44.659 --> 00:41:45.079
with us.

780
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:48.679
I'd like to think that. I think that's great. Are

781
00:41:48.699 --> 00:41:51.000
the magician's feet tucked up on its chair?

782
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:55.699
No, you can't see them. So who knows where they are?

783
00:41:56.159 --> 00:41:58.909
So it's interesting, too, because I'm just like quickly just

784
00:41:58.989 --> 00:42:03.380
shuffling through these. and not all of the characters are

785
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:06.300
dressed in black but the one that we pulled is

786
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:08.760
dressed in black she's wearing a magician's.

787
00:42:08.300 --> 00:42:11.869
Costume very interesting oh.

788
00:42:11.780 --> 00:42:15.210
Yes it looks like she's holding a lightsaber but i

789
00:42:15.250 --> 00:42:18.329
feel like that's supposed to be like oh yeah a

790
00:42:18.349 --> 00:42:21.489
wand or a stripper pole i'm not really sure christina

791
00:42:21.570 --> 00:42:25.010
can you help us out okay so my interpretation book

792
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:27.420
The little one that came with the cat full of

793
00:42:27.460 --> 00:42:30.119
spiders is what I'm going to read. I don't have

794
00:42:30.139 --> 00:42:33.179
the full big modern witch book, so it's not going

795
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:36.349
to be as detailed. If you feel like we still

796
00:42:36.389 --> 00:42:39.710
need more, we can always Google the card too and

797
00:42:39.750 --> 00:42:43.250
see what comes up. Sometimes we do that. Okay, upright.

798
00:42:43.650 --> 00:42:47.130
You're filled to the brim with talent and charisma. Now

799
00:42:47.230 --> 00:42:49.530
is the time to step into your own power and

800
00:42:49.570 --> 00:42:52.059
become the star of the show. Which is like, is

801
00:42:52.099 --> 00:42:54.510
that what these women in black And ladies in black

802
00:42:54.530 --> 00:42:55.050
were doing.

803
00:42:55.070 --> 00:42:59.030
I mean, yeah, I'm thinking stepping into my power by

804
00:42:59.170 --> 00:43:02.429
throwing acid on the face is not great. Stepping into

805
00:43:02.469 --> 00:43:04.880
my power, though, starring of the show, dressing up like

806
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:07.699
a man to go get my husband out of prison.

807
00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:08.280
That's pretty.

808
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:09.639
Oh, that is true.

809
00:43:10.300 --> 00:43:11.340
Yeah. I don't know.

810
00:43:11.900 --> 00:43:15.679
Like passionate agent Angela, which I assume is one of

811
00:43:15.719 --> 00:43:18.119
the characters that she played because they're all like different

812
00:43:18.139 --> 00:43:21.719
characters that she's been sent to inspire revolt among the

813
00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:25.559
oppressed citizens of neon. This must be a movie I've

814
00:43:25.619 --> 00:43:31.679
never seen. But the revolt part is interesting. Definitely reminds

815
00:43:31.699 --> 00:43:34.599
me of the prison break situation. You have what it

816
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.360
takes to manifest your dreams and make magic happen. Take

817
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:41.010
action and watch sparks fly.

818
00:43:41.030 --> 00:43:41.889
Hmm.

819
00:43:42.429 --> 00:43:45.389
It's interesting. It's just kind of like about someone who's

820
00:43:45.449 --> 00:43:49.949
making shit happen, which Melanie Lanier definitely did, even though

821
00:43:49.969 --> 00:43:53.449
it didn't end well, but she still like did it.

822
00:43:53.769 --> 00:43:56.789
Yeah. How do you feel like this card resonates? Do

823
00:43:56.809 --> 00:43:59.309
you think it resonates for all of the stories you told?

824
00:43:59.329 --> 00:44:02.469
I kind of think so. It's just it's kind of

825
00:44:02.530 --> 00:44:05.980
just about a woman like showing herself.

826
00:44:06.260 --> 00:44:06.579
Yeah.

827
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:10.440
It's like what I'm getting like, show yourself. And like

828
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:13.199
all of these women made their presence known, whether it

829
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:15.739
was like in life or the afterlife.

830
00:44:15.940 --> 00:44:16.239
Yeah.

831
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:21.269
They were showing themselves. They might not have been the nicest.

832
00:44:21.309 --> 00:44:22.670
They were scaring people, but.

833
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.940
Women need to stop apologizing anyway. Right?

834
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:30.179
Gosh. Maybe the people they were scaring deserved it.

835
00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:35.280
Yeah. I mean, I actually was thinking, while she did

836
00:44:35.320 --> 00:44:38.510
go through a lot of effort to break her husband out,

837
00:44:39.050 --> 00:44:42.510
do you think she wanted to do that? It did

838
00:44:42.590 --> 00:44:45.869
cross my mind, like, was she forced to do this somehow?

839
00:44:46.010 --> 00:44:48.809
I don't know why she would be, but at the time,

840
00:44:48.829 --> 00:44:54.210
I'm surprised to hear about a powerful woman doing anything

841
00:44:54.730 --> 00:45:00.340
without her husband that sounds maybe so ignorant but i

842
00:45:00.380 --> 00:45:00.840
don't know.

843
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.679
I don't know because it's like how your husband's in

844
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.739
prison so it's not like he really can influence you

845
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:09.969
i don't think they were letting him like write her

846
00:45:10.030 --> 00:45:11.329
letters or i don't.

847
00:45:11.190 --> 00:45:13.989
Know does he have buddies though maybe.

848
00:45:13.449 --> 00:45:18.690
Maybe But I don't know. It was presented like she

849
00:45:19.150 --> 00:45:20.909
she was doing this. She was going to go save

850
00:45:20.949 --> 00:45:21.989
her husband.

851
00:45:22.409 --> 00:45:22.730
Yeah.

852
00:45:23.010 --> 00:45:24.309
So I really don't know.

853
00:45:24.449 --> 00:45:26.309
We'll keep it like that. We'll keep it like that.

854
00:45:26.969 --> 00:45:29.030
I like that better. I was I just I always

855
00:45:29.050 --> 00:45:32.579
think of the sad possible flip side into, you know,

856
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:35.900
stories like that. But yeah, I think the magician fits.

857
00:45:36.420 --> 00:45:38.300
Do we want to Google and see if there's anything

858
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:41.420
extra we can maybe add to it? Yeah.

859
00:45:41.719 --> 00:45:47.809
Yeah. Let's do that. OK, I'll read this. This is from. Labyrinthos,

860
00:45:47.909 --> 00:45:50.010
I never know how to say that name, but you

861
00:45:50.030 --> 00:45:54.099
know that tarot website? Yeah. Labyrinthos. The magician is the

862
00:45:54.139 --> 00:45:59.099
representation of pure willpower. With the power of the elements

863
00:45:59.300 --> 00:46:02.320
and the suits, he takes the potential innate in the

864
00:46:02.380 --> 00:46:05.960
fool and molds it into being with the power of desire.

865
00:46:05.980 --> 00:46:09.610
He is the connecting force between heaven and earth, for

866
00:46:09.650 --> 00:46:13.730
he understands the meaning behind the words, as above, so below.

867
00:46:14.300 --> 00:46:17.760
Ooh, that's kind of interesting because we're talking about ghosts,

868
00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:19.380
you know? Yeah.

869
00:46:20.139 --> 00:46:23.570
That mind and world are only reflections of one another.

870
00:46:24.530 --> 00:46:27.969
Remember that you are powerful, create your inner world, and

871
00:46:28.010 --> 00:46:31.070
the outer will follow. Interesting.

872
00:46:31.289 --> 00:46:33.989
I kind of had a thought too, like the first

873
00:46:34.070 --> 00:46:37.809
two stories where they were never really like seen again

874
00:46:37.929 --> 00:46:43.380
after that. Maybe they changed form. Maybe they, through their

875
00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:47.559
own willpower and manifestation, they were like, oh, I'm scaring people.

876
00:46:47.699 --> 00:46:49.820
Maybe I'll change the way I appear.

877
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:51.440
That's a good point.

878
00:46:52.099 --> 00:46:52.380
Yeah.

879
00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:55.139
Otherwise, like, why would they just disappear so suddenly? I

880
00:46:55.860 --> 00:46:56.340
like that.

881
00:46:57.300 --> 00:47:02.829
Okay. Well, Taylin, how did you enjoy your first solo

882
00:47:02.869 --> 00:47:04.190
with me episode?

883
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.659
Absolutely loved it. Thank you so much. I have more

884
00:47:08.739 --> 00:47:10.940
research I'm going to be doing on some of these things.

885
00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:14.000
Not that you didn't do plenty, but I need to

886
00:47:14.039 --> 00:47:17.159
know more about these women. And I have two new

887
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:19.619
movies to watch. Very good night for me.

888
00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:23.429
Oh my gosh. I like can't wait to bring up

889
00:47:23.469 --> 00:47:25.590
more movies you've never seen and make you watch them.

890
00:47:26.929 --> 00:47:29.809
Oh, this is a dream. This is the best.

891
00:47:30.409 --> 00:47:32.349
All right. Do we want to say goodbye to the

892
00:47:32.429 --> 00:47:33.630
creepy people?

893
00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:35.070
No. Yeah, let's do it.

894
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:37.409
Have a creepy ass day.

895
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.409
We'll see you next Thursday.

896
00:47:42.030 --> 00:47:44.150
Unless you turn into a hog, devil.