Dark History of the Ouija Board: Murders, Madness & Mysterious Communication

0:00 Man cheats with Ouija board. I'm like, maybe he was like with a ghost at night. And that's how the Ouija board knew. And it was telling her what was going on. That could be. That could be. Or if you're like me, you're thinking sort of more of like in a literal like American pie type of way. Oh, like with the planchette hole. God. God. And at that point, like, what are you really missing out on? You know? I'm never looking at a planchette the same. I'm literally looking at it right now. Oh, my God. Hi, Caitlin.

0:40 Hi, Cassie. Hi, creepy people. Hello. This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky season in the Pacific Northwest. Or the PNW, if you're nasty. Last week was particularly nasty. It was so good that Taylin remembered it. I love that. I know. She's a good egg. I know we missed her today. Sorry, guys. She'll be back. She will be back. She's not gone or anything. Yeah, we're like, that was just a trial and it didn't go well. It didn't work out. We actually fired her. No, no, no. No, but like us both, she needs a break too. So that's why there's three of us.

1:26 Yeah. Honestly, it's been working out really splendidly so far for the three of us. So hopefully you guys like it. And if you don't, too bad. Suck it. And we also do tarot in our episodes. And if you don't like that, you can also suck it. I mean, or you can just, you know, like you don't have to listen to that part if you don't want to, I guess. But you should. I mean, it's fun. It does hurt my personal feelings, but that's cool. I feel like we probably have said it before, but even if you don't like the tarot or you don't believe in it or whatever, like, yeah, listening to us doing it, we still have we still are talking about things that happened in the episode. And, you know, sometimes things come up that like we. didn't add in the notes or something that just like come up through tarot so you get like a little extra info sometimes so it's fun.

2:20 I know i think about that because i'm like if there are people that are kind of religiously tuning out like as we go into the tarot there's probably things that i was like oh and i remembered this. And yeah for sure now you'll never know yeah so oh well Well, anyway, it is like full on spooky season. This is like literally the last week of spooky season that this comes out. Yeah. Like, where did the time go? I don't know. And I had a really great idea for a costume. And I have to tell you that I spent hours trying to track down the things that I needed, like as dupes. Because I wanted to be the flannel and boot and negligee wearing daughter from Practical Magic.

3:11 I was like, yeah, this is everything that I am. It's like the classy satin negligee. But she pairs it with boots because, you know, practical footwear is important. And then the flannel to stay warm. Yeah. I mean, it is called Practical Magic. So. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And the jewelry was on point. I was so close to really like nailing it. But I was like, hmm. Okay. So by the time I source all of this, how much will I have spent? Yeah. Yeah. Dang it. As of yet, I think our only plans may be handing out candy to trick-or-treaters at Chris's parents' house. So I don't... I think I can throw on any old costume I've ever worn before and they won't know the difference.

4:04 So that is true. That is true. You don't need a lot, but it is fun when you find something that you're like, oh, I just really want to be that, you know? I know. Honestly, maybe I will just pick it back up and do it next year. Yeah, that's true. You know, maybe you'll like find things cheaper throughout the year or something. That's kind of what I'm hoping. I would love to do that. And I think it'll still be fresh enough that I could. But we'll see. Yeah, we'll see what happens. I'm going to be Patrick Starfish from SpongeBob. Love that. I am instead going to focus all of my remaining spooky season energy, I think, on my candle project.

4:48 Because I've got all the things I need to be able to take all of my bits and bobs and odds and ends of candles and bring them back to life. I love that. That's so spooky and witchy. Yeah. Okay. So, well, in honor of spooky season, Halloween season, I've been picking things that are like, you know, a little demonic and devilish that you haven't really been here for. I know. What is going on with that? I know. Well, I thought it was funny because I was like trolling you in the episodes like, oh, Caitlin's not here. She's too scared to like sit in for these episodes meanwhile this bitch went to like one of the most haunted places ever that's right that's right and i brought you back uh something fun and i bought two tarot decks since i.

5:46 Saw you last one of which i bought on the queen mary yeah. Isn't that the deck you used for your yeah i don't It was last time, so. Yeah, I was really excited to hear about that. I was like, oh my God, I need to know what happened. I need more stories for the Queen Mary. I know, I know. And really only kind of the one spooky thing happened to us, which I did sort of like give Taylin the TLDR about, but I was like. I can wait. I know, we have to have Chris come on because like, Well, everybody knows me. I'm scared of everything. And yeah, but like his description and the fact that like he is pretty skeptical about all of this stuff. And he made a face like I don't have an explanation for that.

6:37 Like he was freaked out. Oh, my God. Oh, I'm going to pee myself. I'm so excited to hear about this. I know. Well, today we're going to talk about something that's a very Halloween, very on brand. We're going to talk about Ouija boards. You're kidding me. Yeah. Well, do you have a Ouija board story? I mean, because I was going to ask you if you had one. I mean, I don't because as you know, I've never I've never played with that fuckery. But yeah, I figured you wouldn't. But OK, I wasn't going to do this because I wanted you to actually see it. But OK, hold on. What is happening? There's more stuff that I want to get. And I'm pretty sure they gave me a coupon code. on my receipt at the Queen Mary, but the thing that I brought back for you.

7:25 Is it a Ouija board? Yeah. Oh my God. Is it like a little keychain Ouija board? It's a keychain Ouija board and it says the Queen Mary on it. What? They have. It's literally like going to a little witchy shop when you go to their like gift shop downstairs at the end of the tour. That is crazy. How do you know I was going to talk about. I mean, obviously I didn't. And we like haven't recorded together for a while. And I mean, I had this when we came home from our trip and you'd been here with the dogs. But I totally like We were so fried at that point.

8:07 I totally didn't even. Think about it. Yeah, no, it was. It was like, oh, this is ungodly. We were so tired. But anyways, so that's pretty crazy because I was like, this is so cute. Honestly, they had actual Ouija boards too. But I was like, I don't have room for that in my suitcase. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you wouldn't even use it with me. No, I would be like, take this home, get it out of my house right now. Jesus Christ. Do not take the plastic off. Oh, my gosh. You can't take. The shrink wrap off until you get home. That's so funny, though. Yeah, maybe I was just channeling like you because I picked this topic like Wednesday or Thursday. Wow.

8:52 Okay, so that was really meant to be. Yeah, yeah. So... That's so cool. Oh, my God. I can't wait to play with it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I was going to ask you if you had any Ouija board stories and you don't because you like would never. And I've had one that I told on the podcast. I don't even know what episode or anything. So I'll just kind of recap it for you. I was going to say, I don't know if I remember it. Okay. I'll refresh your memory. So it was Halloween. I think it was like 2021. We played with a Ouija board. And like one of the people we were playing with wasn't like didn't really believe it was kind of just messing around. It didn't it didn't work. It didn't do anything. So we kind of just stopped and whatever and left it out. And then I was like getting ready for bed.

9:37 I was in bed. I had brushed my teeth. I have my water. I had my chapstick. I had like everything I needed. And I like was in bed going to sleep. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, I need to like go downstairs. And I can't remember what I thought I needed to go downstairs for. But I like had to go downstairs. And so I got up. It was summoning you. I know. So I got up, I got my robe on and I opened the door to go in the hall. And I was like, wait, what was I doing? Why was I going downstairs? I have my water, I have everything. And I could not remember the reason I needed to go down there. So I was like, you know what?

10:18 I'm not going to go. I think I'm just going to go back to bed. That's really weird. Yeah, because there was no reason. I hate that. It's my least favorite story. And like, you know, we all do that where we like walk into a room and you're like, oh, like, what did I come in here for? But like, legitimately, I knew there was something I needed. And then all of a sudden I couldn't remember it. And that's just in it. Yeah, there was nothing. There was nothing it could possibly have been that I needed to go down there for. But so then I go down there in the morning and we have those like battery powered candles that you like twist, you know. And so I twisted them all off, you know, before I went to bed and didn't see that any of them were on when I went to bed or anything when I turned off the lights. And I come down in the morning and like one of them is on. And I was like, oh, that's kind of weird. Like, I'm sure it just is, you know, it's twisted. It could have just. Had that spark of energy from the battery. I don't know how that shit works, but it kept happening throughout the day until I took all the batteries out.

11:22 Yeah, I don't like that. I don't like that at all. Different candles, too, would light up. No. So that's my little only Ouija story I have, but it's kind of fun. Oh, I do remember, too, when I was putting it away. I put it like in this it's like a bench seat where I kept all my Halloween stuff. And so I put it away. And then for some reason, I was like, oh, I need to go look in the bench seat for something. I don't know what I again, I'm like putting away my Halloween stuff. Why would I need to go and like look in there for something? And then I opened it and I couldn't remember what it was. But like the little planchette was glowing. No, no. And that's that's that's when just no, no.

12:07 And it is like glow in the dark, but you have to push it down for it to start. And nothing was on top of it. It was just sitting on top. I just I don't like that. So that's kind of weird. But I feel like I don't I don't like that. Nothing ever happened after that. Like nothing, nothing weird and crazy. That's the only thing. I mean, that you know of. Yeah, that's true. I guess I don't live in that house anymore. Yeah. Thank goodness. Honestly. My Ouija board's in storage. It's probably mad at me. Oh, no. I wonder how many storage units are haunted, you know? We need a new, like, storage wars. Like, haunted storage wars. Oh, God. No.

12:49 I don't have it in me. It's too scary. I don't like it. Everyone's weird. I don't like it at all. Antique. And all antiques are kind of weird. Yes. I think. I think so, too. Pretty, but weird. Pretty weird, I think, is operative term there. Keep it pretty weird. All right. So do you want a little brief history of the Ouija board? Obviously. Sometime between 1890 and 91, while they were trying to get the patent for the Ouija board, It is said that one of the investors' sister-in-law used the talking board that they created to ask for a name, and it spelled out Ouija. Oh. O-U-I-J-A.

13:42 Interesting. They asked the board what it meant, and it said it meant good luck. So that's what they named the board. Later, the creators claimed that they came up with the name by combining the French and German words for yes. Okay. But I don't think that's as fun. Ja. Well, yeah. Oui. Ja. Okay. This brings me to the pronunciation. So there are like two main ways people say this word, and that's Ouija or Ouija. Ouija. And they're both in multiple sources as being like the correct way. The correct. Okay. So I'm like, I guess say it however you want. It doesn't really matter. I think I kind of go back and forth.

14:24 Yeah, I think I do too. But I'm like, if it's supposed to be a French and German word, as you claim, kind of as you were saying, wouldn't it be Ouija or Ouija? Ouija. Yeah. The German for jaw is pronounced. Yeah. So it would be Ouija. Oh, I feel like. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Fair enough. Well, like you're you're this is like a talking to Spears board. Why wouldn't you want to like perpetuate this thing that it named itself? Like, that's fucking cool. So I don't know. Yeah. Huh? Yeah. So the U.S. Patent Office only approves things that operate as advertised, if you didn't know. OK. But it makes sense.

15:12 So, OK, I was going to say, did they just like get an exception because of the old timiness or are they claiming that it operates as advertised? So the patent officer on the case, on the case, on the case, said that if the board spelled out his name, it would be proven to work. And that's something he didn't tell anyone beforehand. Oh. So he was a bit surprised and spooked when the board did, in fact, spell out his name, gaining his approval of the patent. Holy shit. Yeah. He's like, OK, I'm sold. Right. Isn't that kind of cool? And it's like, of course, I don't know who he was playing it with or if he was just like doing it himself. If he was playing with someone, obviously, like they would have known his name, but it Like not. Right. No one knew that he was thinking in his head, oh, it needs to spell out my name.

16:10 Right. Yeah. They couldn't have known that that was going to be his requirement. Right. I mean. Right. I guess maybe a good guess. I don't know. Yeah. I guess if you if you were just going to try to guess at like what he would want the thing to do. Not a bad guess. Yeah. But still, it convinced him and he approved the patent. So what was originally meant to be a game, a fun date night activity, eventually turned into something evil and dangerous. I mean, yeah. So it really was meant to be like kind of a date thing. Like they used to sit on chairs facing each other and with like the board on their knees.

16:57 So you would be like kind of close. You'd be like in a dark candlelit room. You could like knock knees with your sweetie. I don't know about all that. It's kind of like taking your date to a scary movie, you know, like you get scared and then you might have a chance to like, you know, cuddle them, make them feel better. I guess. You're like, not for me. Maybe some girls like these weirdos like Cassie over here. I mean, a little bit. I don't want to sound too judgy, but yeah, a little bit. A little bit. I thought it was super interesting, though, that they used to like place it on their knees because that's not a steady surface.

17:37 Right. I feel like that would make the planchette maybe move more than. Yeah. Maybe unintentionally, but it's not a steady surface. And if you're like shaking or something because you're nervous, you know. Yeah. But like, doesn't that make it seem like. So if it's not stable, doesn't that make it seem like. It would be that much harder. Like it'd be that much more obvious to like try to direct it like any which way. Maybe. I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I don't know. Like because I feel like you would have to be really swiping it hard one way or the other. I don't know. I'm not sure. I think we should try it. Well, you don't want to try it, but someone should try it with me. Let's knock knees and...

18:23 Do Ouija board. Like it's a game show. She's like accepting contestants. Yes, please. But then eventually, in addition to many believing the boards drove people insane, which we'll talk about a little bit later. It was about the 70s when it was in The Exorcist, the movie The Exorcist. And then like Catholics got involved and it kind of just has been viewed in a negative light ever since then. Yeah, that makes sense. They've got sort of a way of ruining things. Yes, which makes sense why you're so against it. It's just like in your veins, you know. In your blood.

19:05 Maybe. Maybe a little. So we're going to talk about some haunted places that have contacted spirits using Ouija boards. Okay. Plunkett Center at Southern Oregon University in Ashland. This is a colonial revival style home, which we've heard of before. We sure have. It's built in 1904. In the 70s, a political science professor spent the night inside with a campus security guard and three students to see if they could find any ghosts. The Ouija board spelled out that one of the students had tried to unalive themselves. Which they had never told anyone. Oh.

19:50 so they were freaked out by that and then all of a sudden the board shoots up about a foot and a half and they all ran uh what yeah so apparently the board like just jumped up in the air i don't know and they weren't doing it on their knees i don't think so. Okay I was going to say, yeah, that's one of the things that might be easier to do with it on your knees, I guess. But damn. Yeah. No, but I think it was on a table and it just, yeah. So they all ran away and they're like, nope, we don't care about. I think we found the ghost and that's that. Bye. I'm out.

20:30 Bye. In Battleground, Washington, at Julio's Coffee and Breakfast, The manager sees a ghostly woman in blue. And the figure has even been caught on their surveillance footage. I couldn't find it, but that's like pretty crazy that you're catching what you're seeing in real life on your cameras. Yeah, that feels a little bit. I don't know. Maybe they're saving that footage. They're trying to monetize it somehow. That's why he can't find it. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know. The previous business was a sports bar and staff reported regular poltergeist activity there.

21:13 I mean, I think surprising no one. The building is only 28 years old, just like Caitlin. Yeah, of course. The. But the property is said to have had a brothel on it in the past. Oh, yeah. See, that's where we part ways because I've never had a brothel on me. But the woman who owned it, her name was Mary. So it's kind of close to Caitlin. What? Like Queen Mary, I guess. It's sort of a through line. Weird coincidence connection. Yeah. So while paranormally investigating there, I don't know if that's a thing, but I like how it sounds. Paranormally investigating.

21:59 I mean, it kind of sounds like you're the paranormal thing investigating. Yeah, it does a little bit. While conducting a paranormal investigation. Is that? Yeah, sure. While conducting a paranormal investigation there and using a Ouija board, they have made contact with Mary and she told them that she wears a blue dress. Specifically a blue dress. Yeah, apparently. Allegedly. Allegedly. So that's obviously, I mean, if it's to be believed, the Ouija board that they're seeing Mary walking around in the blue dress. That's kind of cool. I like it. That feels like it has a little more oomph to it, you know?

22:39 It's like validation of the Ouija board info and also what you're seeing, I think, too. Yeah, for sure. Next, we're going to the Hasida Head Lighthouse, which is one of the most haunted places on the Oregon coast. A group of Lane Community College students used a Ouija board in the Keeper's house. Oh, great idea, guys. Yeah. They got the name Rue in connection to a well-known entity on the property, the Gray Lady. Interesting. The Gray Lady. Yeah. People speculate that she was a keeper's wife who possibly lost a child on the property. Oh, why she's still there. Yeah. I know. It's really sad.

23:24 It's really sad. People report seeing her or another elderly woman in the attic window. Oh, so I don't know. They call her the gray lady. I don't know if she's old or she just appears like gray in color. Right. I'm not sure if like the old woman is the same as the gray lady i'm not i wasn't clear on that when i was reading through. Yeah i wonder i feel like sometimes it seems like the representation that people see is just kind of i don't know it's like um almost i i don't want to say like hologram But like kind of it's like a little bit whitewashed. It's like pale or you know what I mean? It looks like an old timey photo.

24:08 Yeah, that's what I picture. Stop me if I'm not making any sense. No, that's like exactly what I picture. Like a black and white TV. Yes. You know? Yeah. In the 20s, the Oregonian claimed that the Ouija board was a home essential. Stop it. And you can grab your own at downtown's Meijer and Frank for just 98 cents. A bargain at any price. I know. So cute. I think they meant downtown Portland when they said that. Oh, yeah. They just said downtown. But I mean, we knew what they meant. Several Portland locals claim to utilize Ouija board messages in everyday life, like to predict the weather. Which one man did successfully for years.

24:58 Or is this where you tell me that that man was Matt Sabino? Oh, my God. That would be so funny. Like local weatherman uses Ouija board. Just saying. I don't know. Like, has anyone asked? I was just thinking, like, it's always raining. So like the like the weather's not power to protect. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. It reminds me of like what is it like mean girls where she can her boobs can predict the weather. Yes. She's like, is that what it is? Yes. Honestly, I can't remember the exact quote. For it, but, you know, I don't either. I feel like you have to look it up.

25:39 OK, let me see. OK, so the character is Karen Smith of none other than the Plastics. And she's like the dumb one of the group. So she says she confuses ESP, extrasensory perception, with the sports network ESPN. And OK, here's the actual quote. I will. OK, here I'll read this because it makes the rest of the analysis actually funny. OK. I'm kind of psychic. I have a fifth sense. It's like I have ESPN or something. My breasts can always tell when it's going to rain. Well, they can tell when it's raining. Like, yeah, no shit, Sherlock. At that point, everybody can.

26:35 Oh, my God. Classic. Good stuff. Really good stuff there. Speaking of kind of silly things you might do, um, You might catch your husband cheating with a Ouija board. What? Apparently, a woman was using a Ouija board and it was giving her messages that her husband was cheating on her. Oh, well, he wasn't cheating with the Ouija board. No, no, no. OK. I don't think so. I was like, maybe he was. I was like, wow, we're starting to sound like one of those Reddit podcasts where they make the title of the story like something really salacious. Man cheats with Ouija board. I'm like, maybe he was like with a ghost at night. And that's how the Ouija board knew. And it was telling her what was going on.

27:22 That could be. That could be. I don't know. Or if you're like me, you're thinking sort of more of like in a literal like American pie type of way. Oh, like with the planchette hole. God. Yeah. And at that point, like, what are you really missing out on? You know? I'm never looking at a planchette the same. I'm literally looking at it right now. Oh, my God. There's got to be one of those, like, sex stories with, like, inanimate objects that come to life. Okay, I'm making that a mission. We are going to find something. There's got to be. There has to be.

28:07 There has to be. I just read one that's called Halloween. And it was about pumpkin men. Oh. And a candy man. Oh, boy. It's pretty fun. That's interesting. I know. It's a good Halloween read. Halloween. Halloween. Okay. Also, eight divorces were filed in Multnomah County due to Ouija board messages. Stop it. I don't know if it was telling people to, like, leave their spouse or if it was, like, revealing lies or we're cheating or something like that, but. I have so many questions. Me too. Many other locals were said to have gone mad from using the Ouija board. A woman trying to contact her missing son... Oh, God. Yeah. I know. I know that was really sad. Yeah.

28:59 I mean, that feels very real. I would probably try that too, you know? You're going to try everything. If you have a missing child, you're pretty much willing to give anything a shot. It's sad to say too, but I'm thinking like, and they say go mad. This is like kind of old timey. Yeah. Was she just like really... Depressed. Just distraught and devastated like over losing someone and like going through grief? No, Cassie, she's hysterical. It's demons. Oh, that's so heartbreaking. Yeah. A man who used the board for business advice. Oh, boy.

29:39 Yeah. Don't tell me. Were his initials RR by any chance? I don't know. No, I don't. It didn't say specifically who it was, but he did end up kind of going insane after trying to use the board for getting some advice. Well, that makes sense. And even retired boxer Sharky Martin, who had been using a DIY Ouija board and developed an obsession, an unhealthy obsession with it. Well, and listen, I don't think that the corporations that currently produce the boards are doing anything special to like protect us. But DIY with something like this makes me a little nervous.

30:25 I don't know why. You could just make your own Ouija board, like talking board. It doesn't have to be bought. I don't really trust that. I'm not going to lie. Well, it kind of gets worse. So he was arrested in North Bend, Oregon. on insanity charges, which I didn't really know was like a thing. But maybe back in the day. I don't know. Maybe back in the day. When was that? I don't remember a specific date on these, but I think these were all before the 70s. Oh, then. Yeah. I mean, they could just arrest you for a lot of things that like probably wouldn't fly today. Yeah. But I think he was just kind of like acting out and acting maybe in a way that would make them think he could like harm people or himself.

31:12 Yeah, that's why they just have, I think, probably like slightly more PC ways of saying kind of the same thing now, like, you know, disturbing the peace inside. Yeah, like, you know, they're not just going to be like, The guy went insane, so we charged him with insanity. He's crazy. First of all, the last person on Earth that should be necessarily, like, making that sort of a distinction or diagnosis is your average patrol cop. Like, I'm sorry, sir. You might be qualified at the shooting range, but you are not qualified for this.

31:53 Yeah. A psychiatrist declared the Ouija board, quote, nothing more than a mental murder, which is like fucking intense, dude. That's that feels like a lot. But I guess if you're looking at these cases of people apparently like going crazy from using it, maybe maybe you would say that. Yeah, it does start to feel like, OK, this is kind of a dangerous contraption, but like. Is it the board or is it the people, you know? Right. Yes. I do think that's an important distinction. And then also, like, maybe we don't call it like maybe maybe not murder.

32:35 Like maybe we don't murder. Like, it feels like we kind of went zero to 60. And it just feels like that's a little bit of a lot. Yeah, that makes sense. It's so dramatic. Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. Dr. J. Allen Gilbert of the University of Oregon Metal School. Metal School. Oh, yeah. Rock on, man. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Of the University of Oregon Medical School, now OHSU, said after his research, quote, the answers you get from a Ouija are but the embodiment of subconscious state. The Ouija furnishes the valuable method of tapping the subconscious. Oh. I'm like, man, these people got some fluffy language.

33:29 Yeah, that feels a little intense. It furnishes the valuable method of tapping the subconscious. Okay. Again, sir, I hate to sound like a broken record, but maybe we just take it down a notch. They gotta sound smart. They're doctors and shit. So he basically thinks that people who can easily meditate or dissociate can cause you to like subconsciously move the planchette to the answer that you're asking, basically. Not that you're really doing it on purpose, but you're just so open. You're in like a meditative state. But I'm like, so where are the answers coming from, though? If you're like dissociated, you're in a meditative state. Are they actually coming from you?

34:18 Or is something in your mind like telling you the answer and then you're moving the planchette to get the answer? Hmm. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's kind of how it works. I don't think something's like actually moving, physically moving your fingers or the little planchette. I think it's like something is coming into your brain and telling you the answer, but you just don't know. Interesting. Yeah, that's how I think. I could see that. Yeah. OK, OK, I'm coming around. I think maybe maybe a little. It still doesn't mean it's like not something potentially evil that could be giving you like these answers and stuff.

34:58 Right. And that's what concerns me. I feel. Yeah, I think that is the big concern is that like if you're opening up to the other side, there's good and there's evil, just like there is. And on this side. Right. All over the place. It just be just people be evil in, you know. They got to stop that. Yeah. Like if you could just. Sounds like a lot of work. Yeah, it does. It just feels like a lot. And we just kind of wish you wouldn't. You need to calm down. Being too loud. A little bit. I was like, I know exactly where this is going. I'm like, I'm letting you run with that. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. Okay, we're moving on to El Cerrito, California. Okay. In 1920, a woman who had lost her daughter in a hit and run had six people with her using a Ouija board inside their house trying to find out who had killed her daughter.

35:58 Oh, my God. They were pulling all-nighters for weeks attempting to make contact with the other side. Oh, God. Until finally, they feared they had let in evil spirits instead of helpful ones. Oh. And then they started acting really strange and conducting rituals to try and get rid of the evil spirits. And they believed they were affecting their other children as well. Well, yeah, I mean, if nothing else, they're just seeing how deeply entrenched that their family is becoming. Yeah, that would definitely affect you, for sure.

36:39 Oh, no. Eventually, the police were called and they arrested the seven seancers on charges of insanity, again. Cool. And being a threat to themselves and others. I mean... And yeah, this was the 20s, so... This caused the people in town to call for a ban on Ouija boards. Oh, my God. What is this? Footloose? Yeah, exactly. I don't think it ever like really went anywhere. I think those type of things typically don't because it's like you can only control what happens in private homes so much. Right. I mean. Right. So far. I mean, you could try to ban them in specific places like.

37:22 Right. Right. No public gatherings. Well, this is a public place, actually. So an unofficial sign was posted on Fox 12's Facebook page stating that Ouija boards are banned from Fern Hill Park. Oh, asking what do you think the event was? So they took a picture of this notice up at Fern Hill Park that was saying that Ouija boards were banned. And so they're asking people, like, why do you think this is? Because there is no other information. Yeah. Like, I feel like we need a little bit of explanation. Like, I feel like what? What happened? Like, shouldn't there be like some sort of a public forum? Like, people should be able to comment. And like, yeah, I don't know. That just seems weird to just unilaterally decide, like.

38:10 I don't know. Seems sus. And like, how are you going to enforce that, too? I guess if you're if a park ranger or policeman comes by, like, I don't know. I guess anybody who's like becoming a nuisance. Like a hall monitor. Right. Nerds. One commenter posted that they had overheard kids going through demonic possession at the park, so they weren't really surprised by the new signage. OK, first of all, I need you to explain exactly how it is that you know that that's what's happening. Exactly. Like what? What were you hearing? He said he heard them all night long. Yeah.

38:57 About that. Were they partying? I think they were probably just partying, you know, going crazy, doing it in the woods. They're partying. Teenagers do. Yeah. Like it's 1999 or whatever. Yeah. So this was posted in 2024. And I was like kind of wondering if the sign was still there. Like, are they still banned? Are they still having issues with people using them in the park? I don't know. Oh, I'm so curious. I don't know where fernhill park is we should go there and figure it out maybe i should look. Yeah i was gonna say where i don't know where that is either but surely we could find out it's in portland yeah that just seems like in the city of portland you really think that you can implement that good luck.

39:45 It's not particularly like wooded either. So I'm interested where they're doing like these Ouija board seances and what's going on. It's just got like a little playground and some nice grassy field area. Very interesting. Makes me wonder if people like had candles or something or if there was like some sort of fire hazard or. Oh, sure. Like something else that's like very obviously. Dangerous, maybe. People getting rowdy. I could see that. I know they did ban Ouija boards at like the Lizzie Borden house. I'm pretty sure it was. Really? Yeah, I've heard of like people staying there and they like had banned Ouija boards or something like that.

40:32 People just can't handle it. Yeah. They just keep opening more demonic things in the house and not closing it out. I guess. Maybe. All right. Well, do you want some more murder? Murder. So this gets pretty intense. Okay. In 1933 in Arizona, Maddie Turley, a 15-year-old girl, and her mother were allegedly doing a seance with a Ouija board. And the board spelled out that Maddie should kill her father, Ernest. Oh, shit. So that her mother could marry a handsome young cowboy. I mean... Just leave him!

41:13 Marry the cowboy! Just leave him! Maybe just go. I don't know. It was 1933. I understand it's hard to leave people, especially then. I mean, yeah. But you don't need to go killing people about it. I don't know. You may have kind of had to kill him to get out. I hate to say that because I don't want to seem like I'm like justifying it. But at the same time, I mean, in 1933. Yeah. Yeah. Just run away with the cowboy. I guess you probably would want to have your daughter with you. Right. There's a lot that goes into that. Who knows if the cowboy can take care of you? He's young. Right.

42:00 So Maddie claimed her mother encouraged her to do what the board said. So she shot her father twice in the back and he passed away about six weeks later in the hospital. Maddie pled guilty to attempted murder and And I was like, but wait, he died. So why was it attempted murder? But maybe because she was pleading guilty? Yeah. Maybe she got her plea in at the right time so that she would get a lesser charge. I don't know. I was kind of confused about that part. I wanted like an opinion on that because I had no idea. Yeah. Because he definitely died. It's possible that she negotiated for a deal so that, like, even if he did end up dying, that, like.

42:44 Oh, yeah, maybe because it was in between the six weeks. Like, maybe he was still alive. That's my thinking. I don't know that that's the case, but. Interesting. Yeah. But she was sentenced to the state school for girls at Randolph. I assume that's like a girl's prison, like for younger girls. I don't think it's like an asylum or something, you know? Yeah. I don't think it bodes well for her, I will say. Right. I don't think it's going to be a great experience. No. Her mother, Dorothea, was charged with assault with the intent to commit murder. But she insisted that she was innocent.

43:26 And Maddie had shot Ernest because she didn't like how strict he was. I mean, and maybe that's fair. I don't really know. We don't know their life, really. It's like she said she said. Right. Right. Yeah. He's kind of not here to defend himself. And I don't even know if like he was conscious in the hospital to even like give any testimony or like he he might not even know why. Like, you know, he was just shot. It's not necessarily like he would know why his daughter did it. They already have who did it. Right. Right. Based mostly on Maddie's testimony, Dorothea was convicted and sentenced to 10 to 25 years in prison. But three years later, the charges were dismissed. The Supreme Court of Arizona ruling that the trial had been prejudicial when they refused to admit evidence against Maddie's character. So basically, Maddie was the only evidence against her mother, but they wouldn't allow evidence against, like, her character, what she was saying.

44:32 That's something that comes up a lot in criminal cases where they're like, this is the other potential suspect or perpetrator. But they're like, but we can't let you... I don't know, defame this individual in court proceedings. But they're like defaming you. And that's the only evidence. Right. And you're like, can we hear evidence against like the other guy or? Yeah. So it wasn't fair. I don't know what exactly the evidence was, but I did find this and I don't know if it was part of the trial or not. But Maddie did initially tell police that she had been trying to shoot a skunk and tripped and accidentally shot her father.

45:14 OK, well, that that I don't I don't know how much that helps either one of them, because. Like, first of all, I just don't think anyone believes you about that. I just tripped over my gun and shot my dad twice in the back. Yeah, I'm going to go with, I think, no. Obviously, you could say she said this, like, alternate story. Maybe she was trying to protect her mother at first if her claims that Dorothea's involvement were true. Or you could say she's just, like, a liar. Like, her story changed, so... I don't know. It could go either way. Yeah, I think that that seems fair. Like you could spin that kind of two ways.

45:59 But only one of them was ultimately found guilty for the crimes. In July 2026 in Moses Lake, Washington. Shut up. That's where we got Charlotte. Oh, interesting. When did you get her? Like what month? I can't remember. We went and picked her up at the end of February. Oh, OK. So this is after that. So you're safe. Yeah. OK. No, I'm just like, oh, I'm feeling very personally connected. So the Moses Lake Police Department posted about a woman being caught committing a crime in kind of a spooky way. What? So she had broken into a vehicle and stole the stereo, some keys, some prescription medication. Oh, boy. Some other items, including a Ouija board.

46:50 Oh, my God. And coincidentally or not, an officer had just happened to come across a woman who had a Ouija board in one of her bags earlier that day. He didn't really think anything of it other than it was kind of weird that someone's like just carry around a Ouija board in July. You just travel with it or. It's kind of weird, but whatever. Yeah. But after he heard of the items that were stolen from the car later that day, he was able to find her again. And after attempting to run away, she was arrested with the Ouija board still in her possession and all the other shit she stole. Of course. And it was returned to its rightful owner.

47:36 Aww. Aww. So I don't know if the Ouija board like had any part in that getting itself seen by a policeman earlier that day. It's just kind of interesting. Just saying. It doesn't seem like the type of thing that you should steal. Right? Yeah. Like that seems like bad luck coming your way. Probably don't steal anything like car stereo. Super not cool. Prescription medication. Please don't. Wildly not not cool. We need that at all. But we Ouija board. Like nothing good could come out of that. I just feel as though you are painting a target on your back for karma. Yeah. Especially if you're going to steal something that's like kind of noticeable and then just carry it around with you.

48:21 Right. I don't think that it speaks to like a high caliber of criminal. I hardly would say she's a professional. Yeah. Maybe it was her first time. I don't know. If you sell a Ouija board like full retail, like they can't be worth more than like 30, 40 bucks, like brand new in the box. So what are you doing? It was like a super unique, like vintage. I don't know. But don't do that because I feel like if maybe if you would have kept it, she would have had some demons coming after her or something. We don't know. Right. That's OK. So that's That's what I'm saying is like if you're stealing a Ouija board, like you have no idea what kind of energy is already like all up in there.

49:09 Yeah. And is it going to be pissed that you like took it from its owner? I mean, I have to imagine. I think the Ouija board spirits got her caught. I definitely think that's what happened. I'm going with that. It kind of feels like it, doesn't it? Yes. All right, I got one last kooky story for you. Okay. In Spokane, Washington in 1982, Judy Layden claimed to be communicating with a spirit from the Sixth Realm. Named Af. Just A-F. Okay. And what is the sixth realm, pray tell?

49:51 I don't know. Oh, okay. Okay, so we're on the same page there. I don't know. Different dimension. I don't know. I'm not really sure, but he's from the sixth one, whichever there was an evil realm. If we're equally confused, that's fine. Okay. They chatted on the Ouija board about anything from the afterlife to the economy. Even about the fate of Hitler's spirit in the movie E.T., which he did not give great reviews to. Not Hitler, but Aff. Oh, OK. Yeah. I was like, nobody really cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about Hitler or E.T. No, nobody cares what Hitler thinks of E.T.

50:33 Right, right, right. Yeah. No, we don't need your movie reviews, Hitler. We just want to know if you're suffering in hell. That's all. Thank you. Yeah. And we're pretty sure you are. I feel as though confirmed yes. Well, Af knows. I mean, does he? I guess he told Judy. They talked about it. It might be. I didn't read her books, but she does have books. And I'll tell you about them at the end real quick. Okie dokie. Af also relayed to Judy that sex was very different in the sixth realm. Oh. Quote, much more fun than anything you know on Earth. Oh, OK. And I'm like, I really hope Judy was asking about this and he's not just like.

51:13 Right. Volunteering. Sending unsolicited dick pics from the other side. Maybe buzz off. Yeah. Judy had her doubts that any of this was real. But apparently AF reassured her that she was, quote, truly privileged to be the messenger of these glad tidings. Oh, OK. Well, sure. Why not? So he's like, this is all real. And like, you should just be appreciative that I'm sharing with you. Yeah, this is totes all real, Avi. Judy self-published three books from AFS Communications called Beyond the Veil, A Further Step Beyond the Veil, and Another Look at Life Beyond. So if you have questions about maybe their communications, what she asked, what he answered, you might be able to find them in those books.

52:02 Interessante. I thought the sex part was just so random and like awkward. Yeah, it just kind of feels like a lot, if I'm being honest. Why are you telling me this? To, like, make me jealous or to, like, try to get me to go to the sixth realm? Are you enticing me? Right. What's the goal here, Aph? This feels like an attempted abduction. Eek! Well, that's all my fun Ouija board stories I have for you. I like it. Should we do some Ouija board instead of tarot? Well, I don't have one, but if you have one over there, you can go ahead. We're not together. It wouldn't work. Do you have my cute ghost deck there?

52:51 Yeah, I do. Okay, so let me know if there's like a spot in front of the keyboard that you are feeling. I don't know why I was getting like Q. Interesting. Okay. There is one that's kind of like poking up in. Like that spot. And it's weird. Pick the polka. It's weird because I was thinking specifically of like a letter that was close to that, but on the keyboard, they're not close. Oh. So that's interesting. Okay. Oh, six of cups. It's got two cute coasties on it with six cups. And a sunrise or sunset.

53:32 I can't really tell. Our keywords are nostalgia. emotional renewal, happiness, and harmony. This joyful card sometimes shows two children in a garden. It represents reflecting on a time of innocence, contentment, and beauty. When it shows up, it indicates you're revisiting pleasant memories and good times. Knowing that you have been happy in the past can enhance your ability to be happy in the future and especially if you've undergone a painful experience recently. That is interesting because I was thinking of just Ouija boards in general. Like they started out really fun with like two people, you know, with the Ouija board on their left. And we've got the two ghosts like having a good time. And then like going through this painful part of like people going mad, apparently going mad because of the Ouija board and like the demonic connection and the occult and all of that. like going through those harder times. And then now we're like, I'm trying to say like, it's not that bad. And we should maybe get back to like the more innocent times of the Ouija board. Yeah.

54:42 Well, and to me, this makes me think of like, obviously it's a sad, it's a painful time when you lose someone. Yeah, that's true. But then reflecting on what the traditional use of a Ouija board is, reflecting on those, you know, past, Happy times. And you can possibly reconnect with someone you've lost through the Ouija board. I'm not saying that you will for sure or, you know. Yeah. You could. Yeah. We can claim no warranties. Right. And people claim that they do. Like there's a lot of really good and positive Ouija board experiences too.

55:23 Yeah, for sure. A card of emotional renewal, perhaps after a time of unhappiness, The Six of Cups represents a willingness to share joy with others. You eagerly give of yourself and receive the good things life offers. Through your actions, you express love and caring to people you know and to the things you value. In a reading about money, this card suggests an upswing in your finances, perhaps after a loss or time of limitation. It can represent a joint venture in which you share expenses and profits with others. Sometimes it indicates a debt repaid.

56:04 Interesting. I don't know. It just makes me think of like things being stolen and then like given back. Yeah, really. Okay. If the reading's about your job, the sixth upright shows renewed enthusiasm for your work. Perhaps a change offers you more creativity or an improved work environment. Developing new skills can benefit you now. Use the Ouija board for your business advice. Just be careful. Communicating with the dead. Careful you don't go mad. Always got to keep an eye on that. In a reading about love, this card shows you're overcoming problems in a relationship and renewing positive feelings for one another. Sometimes the Six of Cups can mean reconnecting with a past lover.

56:54 Oh, like maybe one who's literally past. The dearly departed. Yeah. There was one part in there about like sharing and giving of yourself to others that kind of made me think of Ath where he's like, you know, you should be grateful. I'm like sharing these secrets from the other side with you. Oh my gosh, actually? Yeah. That is funny. That is so funny. Were there any extra zerps? I mean, I don't know how relevant we feel like it is, but it says symbol of a kiss. The six of cups in the Rider-Waite-Smith deck shows a large cup resting on a pillar decorated with an X. X is the Norse rune for love and a symbol we use for a kiss.

57:44 Cute. I mean, it kind of like, you know, that date night thing. Right. I was talking about lovers. Yeah. Connecting over the Ouija board in the dark room. Maybe sharing a kiss. Sharing a kiss. It's interesting, too, because in the reverse, it says, because the Six of Cups is such a happy card, it signifies pleasant things even when it's reversed. That. I like when those cards it's like that one in the sun card or like the two that are they're really great. Yeah. So positive that they're you can't reverse them. I am going to skip to the last sentence, though, because I do think this could have like a tie in.

58:25 And I think the the energy of this card being that like the upright and the reverse are just like it's kind of I don't know. Like you said, there's almost no reverse. It says, however, it may mean you're stuck reminiscing about the good old days and can't seem to find happiness in the present. Oh. So I feel like that goes back to some of these people that are just trying to connect. Yeah. You know. And they just like get kind of stuck trying to figure out like. Yeah. The woman who was trying to figure out who killed her daughter in the hit and run. Exactly. Yeah. That kind of, I feel like that's the tie-in with that.

59:07 That's so sad. Well, yeah, end us on a sad note. note Caitlin I mean what was the other you said there was like another letter that you were trying to that you were drawn to what was oh. I was thinking like the letter oh. See I was too for some reason when I first thought of it. I thought Q for some reason. Then I was like, no, I should do O because Ouija. But then I was like, no, for whatever reason, like Q was hitting me. Oh, I didn't even think about it. I wasn't even thinking O for Ouija. I just was feeling drawn to that. That's so weird. I was definitely going back and forth between the O and the Q. That's so funny. Wait.

59:49 No. What? No. What? Oh, three of cups. We just got there. You guys just got that one. We just got this. That's so funny. I think it's trying to tell us something. I drew it in reverse, though. Oh, which is crazy. OK, so keywords are celebration, fulfillment, friendship, community, happiness and fun. And the reverse interpretation is when reversed, the three of cups can indicate indulgence, In food or alcohol. Or Ouija boards. It doesn't say alcohol. It says in food or drink. Oh, well, we know what you mean. Too much partying.

1:00:31 Yeah. I mean, I filled in the blanks. Too much plancheting. Right? Perhaps you feel weary from too much interaction with other people and need some downtime. Or you've become disenchanted with your friends. In some cases, it shows a longing for friendship or sense of community. Aww. I know. Is it like the ghosts on the other side who are just waiting for people to pick up a Ouija board so they can talk to someone? I mean, I kind of think so. In a reading about money, rewards from a group effort may be delayed or not as great as you'd hoped. This card can also warn of overextending yourself financially or counting your chickens before they're hatched.

1:01:17 Hmm. If the reading is about your job, the reverse three suggests your success comes in small ways rather than grand ones, or a victory may seem hollow. Perhaps you don't feel as happy with your job or the results of a project as you'd expect it to be. In a reading about love, the three reverse shows you may feel left out, discouraged, or lonely. Perhaps you've grown and your lovers slash loved ones haven't kept up. In some cases, this card can mean a primary partnership takes up all your time and you don't get to see friends as much as you'd like.

1:01:57 Ooh, like if you get obsessed with talking to spirits on your Ouija board. I could see that. I also was kind of interpreting that as perhaps, okay, so perhaps you've grown and your lover slash loved ones haven't kept up In some cases, it can mean, you know, the primary partnership takes up all your time, blah, blah, blah. You can't see friends. I was like, well, I could kind of see that being a feeling like after you've like gone to the other side. Yeah. But I don't know. That was still kind of a sad note. I know. Well, hey, listen, leave it to me to make a two card reading both with cups sound sad.

1:02:44 Oh, wait. So we got the six of cups first. And then the three of cups. F was from the sixth realm. That's right. And then we got a three, which is like another, you know. We literally just drew this card. So I drew it in the opposite orientation. And that's just crazy to me. We got like a double number and a Jesus number. Interesting. Well, I like that. I think those fit great. I think so, too. Have a creepy ass Halloween. We'll see you next Thursday. Unless you do a Ouija board and you summon the devil and get sucked into the board and you're gone forever.

1:03:26 Oh, my God. I was literally going to say, and you get sucked into the board. Yeah. Why is that like the visual? I don't know. No, but really, if you do a Ouija board, be safe. Look up the rules. Protect yourself. Yeah. Do all the things right. And good luck to you. And stay the hell away from my house. Boo. I know. I'm sorry. I can't afford for just letting random vibes in here. You know what a sponge this place is and what I am. Vibe fortress. I can't risk it. Girl, I need a castle and a moat.