Vanished – The Martin Family Mystery

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Ken played Santa Claus every year for neighborhood children who approached with awe in their eyes

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to collect the homemade candy cane decorations that the family made to share with their neighbors.

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Why is this the most fucking wholesome thing I've ever heard?

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I know, it's pretty precious.

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The family wasn't only known for their small acts of kindness during the winter season, though.

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They were also well known to organize summer events as well.

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They held Christmas in their heart all year.

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, creepy people.

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Hello!

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Hello!

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This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.

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And that would be the PNW.

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If you're nasty.

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If you're nasty.

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I feel like my voice got really gross at the end of nasty.

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Oh, God.

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So anyway, about those tarot readings.

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Yeah.

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We usually do those at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic.

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And you might notice that technically Christmas or the holidays, whatever is over.

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But we are coming to you from the past where it is not over yet.

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It hasn't even begun yet.

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So we're still celebrating.

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And because we don't get to be together, I feel like we deserve that.

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Yeah.

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And we will not be taking questions.

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Yeah.

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So if you see our color scheme and if you're watching the video.

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I decided to wear my cozy hood and didn't take it off.

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So I look kind of weird.

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But that's fine.

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Yeah.

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I'm going to keep on trucking.

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Let's do it.

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I'm ready.

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All right.

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You are not ready.

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I promise.

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Yeah.

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To start us off, I'll quote true crime author, JB Fisher, a PNW local with a doctorate in English Renaissance literature.

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From the prestigious Reed College, also PNW based.

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In 1958 to 1959, Ish, this was a huge news story.

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For almost a year, it received nearly daily coverage in the Oregonian and the Oregon Journal.

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But in a haunting parallel to the case itself, this case hasn't time become a truly baffling mystery.

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Oh, mysterious.

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Yeah.

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I got to get in the habit of saying end quote because that last sentence, that was mine.

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Oh, yeah, you do.

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I do the same thing.

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Yeah.

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I forget.

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They're just saying you'll know our voices.

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You'll know when the quote's ending and where our voice begins.

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Yeah.

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Or maybe you all think that I talk like a doctorate, you know, English Renaissance literature guy.

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I mean, sometimes.

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I was like, Cassie's going to say yes.

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And I feel like I was setting you up to say no, but here we are.

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No.

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Oh.

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End sign.

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Kenneth Ken Martin was born September 10th, 1904.

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I don't know that anyone was actually in the habit of addressing him by his military rank.

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Like, just casually at this point.

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What was his rank?

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It's end sign.

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Oh, okay.

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I was like, I, you said the word and it sounded familiar and then, okay.

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I see.

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Yeah.

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But I did see some source material that mentioned it or that referred to him that way.

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So I don't know.

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Maybe just given the situation, it's a sign of difference or respect.

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His wife Barbara Alene Cable was born in February of 1910, sometime in February.

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Oh, okay.

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The 14 because you're wearing like a heart shirt.

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Oh, yeah.

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There you go.

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I was going for Christmas vibes, but maybe that was, you know, for bay abs.

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You literally, you pulled up, you have this red and green on your bread and green behind you.

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And all I see is the heart.

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And I'm like, oh, you're valentine today.

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You're like, bitch, I'm Christmas.

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What do you mean?

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I am Christmas.

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But it all connects.

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Yeah, it does.

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Oh, and hold on.

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What?

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I didn't even put that together.

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I have the skeleton heart hands mug that I'm drinking out of.

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It's pink.

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And it has talking hands.

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We're both hearts and we're both Christmas.

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How did we do that?

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I don't know.

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That's funny.

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And we're not, I think we've shown time and time again that we're far too frazzled to really plan out any of these things.

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No, totally not.

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That's funny.

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The pair were married on November 28th of 1929.

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Mir weeks after the Great Crash in October that same year.

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So that was the start of the Great Depression.

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Okay, I was like, what kind of pressure are we talking about?

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Stocks, steamboat, incident, or...

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No, this is...

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Yeah, it's, I mean, the most infamous market disaster, I think, of the modern era, I would say.

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Damn.

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A pretty crazy...

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I mean, the Great Depression, just like, you know, if most of us were alive at this point, which hopefully if you're listening, you were.

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The 2008 market recession.

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How it sort of like, in some respects, there are aspects of it that started here in the United States, but it really became sort of a global financial crisis.

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It's like that scale.

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Okay.

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It hardly seems like a harbinger of joy.

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And yet, the couple went on to have four children.

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Four?

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In this academy?

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Well, I mean, it wasn't this economy.

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That economy?

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Yeah, I mean, either way, not great.

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The Martin family lived in a two-story tutor-style home in Portland.

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By all accounts, they were well-liked by neighbors and incredibly kind people who were active in the local community.

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So, I know I told you this wasn't strictly speaking a Christmas case, but there are a couple of things that make it feel a little bit more Christmassy than I let on.

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Oh, okay.

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I'm not mad about it.

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Okay, good.

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The street on which the Martins lived was often referred to as "candy lane" during the Christmas season.

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Candy lane!

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Candy lane!

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I want to go there.

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Yeah.

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This was apparently due in no small part to the family's love of the holiday season, as well as spreading Christmas cheer to their neighbors.

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Ken played Santa Claus every year for neighborhood children who approached with awe in their eyes to collect the homemade candy cane decorations that the family made to share with their neighbors.

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Why is this the most fucking wholesome thing I've ever heard?

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I know. It's pretty precious.

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The family wasn't only known for their small acts of kindness during the winter season, though.

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They were also well-known to organize summer events, as well.

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They held Christmas in their heart all year.

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I'm just saying, Christmas in July.

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Yeah!

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Ken worked at Eccles, a lecture-com service company.

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He supervised the repair department and had an apparently impeccable attendance record.

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He supervised the repair department and had an apparently impeccable attendance record.

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His failure to show up to work on December 8th was, quote, "Unprecedented."

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End quote.

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Oh!

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That's because he's afraid of being on the naughty list, so that's a huge deal.

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Exactly.

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Exactly. We can only assume.

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Ken reportedly had an important meeting at work that day, so it was particularly unusual for someone so fastidious and punctual just to...

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That's show up.

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I'm worried.

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Yeah. I feel like I would be too.

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If someone just doesn't show up to work, that's concerning.

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Yeah, because you know those people.

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Like, there's people who just don't show up to work and like, you know who they are.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And they usually don't stick around that long.

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Yeah. No.

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You know the difference.

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The Martin family had money in the bank with no readily-apparent troubles, financial or otherwise,

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as far as the casual observer was concerned.

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The family home was valued at $15,000, and I found in some source material that there was an additional $15,000 in cash and other valuables.

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Other valuables, I would be curious to know what all that entails.

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Yeah.

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Just given the dollar value of a particular item that's going to come up later.

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Oh.

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Okay.

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Secret secrets.

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Yeah.

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Also, would like to point out that is significantly more than the sum total of my current estate decades later.

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I've never even seen that amount of money in my entire life.

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I mean, I have.

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I've prepared that amount of money for like other people at a bank.

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But on December 7th, 1958, the weather in Portland was marked by patchy fog.

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That burned off as the day warmed to the mid-50s.

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Sounds legit.

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I know.

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I literally, in my notes, it sounds like nearly perfect weather for that time of year, for particularly that day's itinerary for the Martin family.

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The Martin family plan to travel out towards the large mountain area, about 30 miles east of Portland, to find a Christmas tree, and some other greens to make reeds.

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Oh.

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I know.

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Pretty wholesome.

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Earlier in the day, some of their extended family had been over, which was not unusual.

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It sounds like they were very not just community, but also very family oriented.

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And they did have a pretty good size group of kind of extended family and like close family friends that lived, you know, within a relatively short distance from their home.

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It was at about 10.30 a.m. that Mr. and Mrs. Robert D Evans, cousins of the Martin's visited the Martin family home with their two children in the child of another relative, Marcy Welch.

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Sounds like a party.

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Yeah.

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Cousin party?

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Yeah.

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It's a party with a bunch of seven-year-olds.

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Yeah. I met like, I was thinking more of like from the point of view of the seven-year-old, like sleep over with all the cousins.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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This was on their way to a later Sunday dinner at the Welch family home, though the Martin's would decline the invitation extended to them.

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Ken had told the relatives that morning that their venture out on East Highway 84 would take up the majority of their day and they just likely wouldn't be able to make it for dinner later.

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That makes sense.

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Yeah.

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Right. I think.

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Yeah. It does.

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It's definitely going to make more sense.

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We have some information about the timeline that though there's sort of some discrepancies and things that's like, "Hmm, that's interesting."

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Hmm.

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It was around 1.30 to 2 p.m. that neighbors were called seeing the Martin's leaving in the family sedan.

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Their neighbor Ella Chin, who lived just down the street, thought it closer to the ladder of the two.

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So she said, "I think that they definitely left closer to 2 o'clock."

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While Frank Womack, who had been outside washing his car, believed it was closer to 1.30.

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I don't know who's like, "If you're outside washing your car, are you looking at the clock?"

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That was my exact thought.

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And then my next sentence.

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And since this case is from the 1950s, I'm surprised that the source material I found doesn't just say they left at 1.30 before a female neighbor clearly became hysterical.

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Right.

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That is so true though.

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A man said this, so we're going to assume it's fact.

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Back then, I don't know if your watch would be waterproof.

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You wouldn't want to be wearing it and washing the car.

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I don't know.

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Right.

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No, I think that's such a good point.

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I don't know how he knew exactly what time it was.

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And I feel like she was probably, you know, in the kitchen.

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That's what I was going to say.

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If she wasn't in the kitchen, she was probably close enough by that, you know, she may have just glanced at the clock.

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People also had clocks on their walls.

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So being indoors, I don't know, I'm going out on a limb and say, "It makes more sense to me."

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There are some other details, like I said, that I think probably line up a little bit more closely with them having left at about 1.30.

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I don't know that a half hour is making that much of a difference.

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Yeah.

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It was an odd time of day to begin a journey into a wooded area, though, because it's like this time of year.

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Oh, yeah, because it gets dark out like four.

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The grandson of the detective who worked the case for Multnomah County even knew Kenneth didn't like to drive when it was dark outside.

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It's gork outside.

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Gork outside.

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You can't drive in a garca.

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Well, he didn't like to.

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I don't even relate to that.

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Seriously.

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It sucks.

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The older you get, the better the reason has to be for you to leave your house.

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Yeah.

246
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:10,000
Leaving this late in the day and taking the length of their drive into account, there wasn't much daylight left for their foraging plans.

247
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,000
Because remember, they're trying to cut down a Christmas tree.

248
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,000
They're supposed to be gathering greens to put together a bunch of reeds.

249
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,000
Yeah.

250
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:19,000
Huh.

251
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:25,000
And, you know, they're headed out kind of towards like cascade locks, essentially like Hood River.

252
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:30,000
So, I mean, even from Portland, that's still a little bit of a drive.

253
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,000
Yeah.

254
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000
I don't know.

255
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,000
Just seems odd.

256
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,000
It sort of gives me pause about some of the later theories.

257
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,000
I don't know.

258
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,000
Well, I'm worried about the theories.

259
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,000
I don't like groups setting up here.

260
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,000
I'm getting uncomfortable.

261
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000
None of it's great.

262
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000
I need to hug my blankie.

263
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,000
Yeah, I would.

264
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:56,000
In any case, the Martins reportedly left their home in the family vehicle, afford country sedan.

265
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:02,000
It was white or cream according to some source material and red.

266
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,000
I'm going to pull up the photo folder that I have for the case.

267
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,000
Okay, so I texted it to you.

268
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:10,000
Oh, cute.

269
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,000
I love old cars.

270
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,000
Also, this looks like rust and not red.

271
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,000
Yeah.

272
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,000
Yeah.

273
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000
No, I will be finding some more true to life.

274
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,000
Oh, okay.

275
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,000
But like pretend like it was like a newer version is that what you're saying.

276
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:25,000
Yeah.

277
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,000
So, it's freaking cute.

278
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:27,000
Oh, no, it's cute.

279
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:34,000
It kind of reminds me like a little bit of like cars that you see in like old timey like movies.

280
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000
Yeah.

281
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,000
Like movies like, um, oh God.

282
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000
I think like Christmas vacate or yeah.

283
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,000
Yeah.

284
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:43,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

285
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,000
Is that okay?

286
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,000
That sounds right.

287
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:46,000
Yeah.

288
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000
And I can just like picture a Christmas tree on top of this car too.

289
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,000
Yes.

290
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,000
Like just like that kind of car.

291
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,000
A thousand percent.

292
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,000
It was literally the most 1950s car imaginable, I think.

293
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,000
I picture this at the drive in.

294
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000
It's got the tree strap to the roof.

295
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,000
Like you said.

296
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,000
Somebody's coming out delivering like malts and burgers and fries in roller skates.

297
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000
Oh my God, I want a malt from a roller skated person immediately.

298
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000
I don't know.

299
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,000
I'm going to Sonic.

300
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,000
Oh, wait, do they do roller skates there?

301
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,000
Wait, I have to do some.

302
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000
Do they?

303
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,000
I feel like they do.

304
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:25,000
I don't know.

305
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,000
I could be wrong.

306
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,000
You guys, do they do roller skates?

307
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,000
Do they?

308
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,000
Am I like, was that like a fever dream I had?

309
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,000
I don't know.

310
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Somebody please tell us.

311
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,000
I'm too afraid to Google it and find out that she's like really losing it.

312
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000
But I want comments.

313
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:43,000
I want interaction.

314
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,000
Give it.

315
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,000
Loaded into the car.

316
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:51,000
We're both Ken and Barbara as well as Barbara aka Barbie.

317
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,000
I was going to say.

318
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,000
14.

319
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,000
Who was a freshman at Grant High School at the time.

320
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:03,600
Virginia, 13, and Susan, 11.

321
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:08,880
You may recall that I previously said the Martins had four children.

322
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:18,000
Their 28 year old son, Donald, was stationed in New York with the Navy.

323
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,000
Quite a bit older than his Sibs.

324
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,000
Yeah.

325
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,360
I was like, what explains this insane age gap?

326
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:31,360
And then immediately they had a bajillion.

327
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,360
You know what I mean?

328
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:36,360
Sounds like a high school accident.

329
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:39,360
And then later on, I don't know, I could be wrong.

330
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,360
But that's what it sounds like to me.

331
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,360
I mean, sure.

332
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:52,360
But this is a married couple essentially before birth control was sort of widely used.

333
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:53,360
Oh.

334
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:57,360
I just feel like it's kind of like Pringles.

335
00:18:57,360 --> 00:18:59,360
It's sort of usually like a one-chip-hop.

336
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:00,360
You don't stop.

337
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,360
I mean, some people have difficulties or whatever.

338
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:04,360
I guess.

339
00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:05,360
I don't know.

340
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:09,360
But then once they broke the seal again, it was it was on.

341
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:10,360
It's interesting.

342
00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:11,360
Yeah.

343
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:16,360
It said that the family had lunch at a diner located in Hood River.

344
00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:22,360
Clara York, a waitress at the Paradise Snack Bar in Hood River, said she waited on the

345
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:26,360
family between four and four thirty.

346
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:33,360
However, she later modified her story slightly, clarifying that she believed they had come in

347
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:36,360
closer to around two p.m.

348
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:45,360
So if they had come in at two, they definitely would have needed to leave the house at one thirty.

349
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:46,360
Okay.

350
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,360
I see what you're saying.

351
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:48,360
Yeah.

352
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:53,880
Nevertheless, her original story in timeline may have been more plausible because she remembered

353
00:19:53,880 --> 00:20:00,600
turning the flood lights on in the parking lot just after they left as dusk fell.

354
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,360
So why would she change her story?

355
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:09,440
Well, I think, you know, sometimes I witness testimony is always kind of tricky.

356
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,960
And especially when you're asking someone to give you, you know, a precise timeline, I

357
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:21,160
would assume, you know, particularly as a waitress or really like anyone who's like in their

358
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,920
work environment, you know, you can look up at the clock and all of a sudden realize,

359
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,080
holy shit, it's lunchtime, you know what I mean?

360
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:36,120
And yeah, if you're busy, you just have a lesser awareness.

361
00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:37,120
I don't know.

362
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:38,120
I do.

363
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:44,800
I think it's odd, but it's not, it's not even close to the weirdest thing.

364
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:49,760
The family also stopped for gas at the Cascade Box Service Station.

365
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:56,400
The reports differed as to when they arrived and who waited on them because of course,

366
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,880
why wouldn't it?

367
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:08,600
In fact, this receipt, a receipt for gas they purchased like 30 minutes out of town arrived

368
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:14,360
in the Martin mailbox roughly two weeks after this particular date.

369
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:20,200
So apparently gas stations used to mail people receipts?

370
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,200
Interesting.

371
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,200
Yeah.

372
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:23,200
Okay.

373
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:28,560
It indicated that five gallons of gas had been purchased that day.

374
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,800
Martin's signature on the receipt was authenticated by handwriting experts at the time.

375
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,280
So presumably they actually did get gas there.

376
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:40,960
That feels verifiable.

377
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:42,960
It doesn't really tell us a lot because-

378
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,960
Does it have a timestamp?

379
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,960
No.

380
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,960
Not that I'm aware of.

381
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,680
God dang it.

382
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,360
Receipts nowadays have timestamps.

383
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:53,680
They sure do.

384
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:54,680
Yeah.

385
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:55,680
Oh.

386
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:56,680
Oh.

387
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:04,240
Honestly, just the marvel that is anyone going to the effort of mailing a receipt.

388
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:05,240
Yeah.

389
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:06,240
Wow.

390
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:07,560
It's interesting.

391
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:09,040
It was a different time.

392
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:10,040
Yeah.

393
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,160
That's like just so like leave it to beaver.

394
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,640
You know what I mean?

395
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,600
Kelsey and Doris Newtson claimed to have seen what looked like the Martin station wagon

396
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:27,200
around dusk parked under the bridge of the gods in cascade locks.

397
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:32,920
Two men were standing next to the vehicle and speaking to the passengers inside.

398
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,400
This was most likely the last reported sighting of the Martin family.

399
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:38,720
Oh no.

400
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,240
Yeah, not great.

401
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:50,560
It was roughly 9.30pm the following day, December 8th, that Ken's boss Edward Lunds called the police

402
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:55,840
concerned about the family's whereabouts after Ken never reported to work that day.

403
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,160
That attendance record, I'm telling you.

404
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,000
Comes in handy.

405
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:05,400
If you come- I mean if you go missing, sadly, hopefully you don't.

406
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:11,520
It would also be established by Charlotte Dorsey, a second grade teacher and also Ken's sister

407
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,320
that the Martin children had not attended school that day.

408
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,200
The police would accompany Charlotte to the family home for an old-timey wellness check.

409
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,440
Is this on the 8th?

410
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,440
Yes.

411
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:25,440
Okay.

412
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,440
Look at you, superstar.

413
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,280
Just trying to get the timeline down.

414
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,280
Yeah.

415
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:32,280
I know.

416
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,320
She's like, I'm a salsa.

417
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:40,720
In the Martin family's ranch-style home, there was a thawed me on the counter, dishes in the

418
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:48,000
sink, a load of wash in the machine, and they'd even left the heater on downstairs.

419
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,280
Oh.

420
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,880
It seemed that the Martin's had planned to return, but where were they now?

421
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:56,880
I know.

422
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,680
I mean, everyone that talked to them that day, and well, I should say the day prior, everyone

423
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:09,840
that talked to them the day presumably that they disappeared said, I mean, based on their

424
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,800
plans, obviously they were headed home that evening.

425
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,640
Yeah, they were going to get a train coming back, right?

426
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:17,640
Like, yeah.

427
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:18,640
Yeah.

428
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,480
Yeah, because then you got to get that thing in water.

429
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,480
Yeah.

430
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,600
You got to shake all the spiders out, water it, and decorate the bitch.

431
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:27,600
Yeah.

432
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280
Got to get that star on top.

433
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:36,960
And exhaustive search and investigation were undertaken in an attempt to discover the

434
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,720
Martin families whereabouts.

435
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:46,000
Some 6,000 circulars were distributed by law enforcement nationwide.

436
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,000
A circular?

437
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,840
Yeah, it's basically like a flyer?

438
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,160
Yes.

439
00:24:53,160 --> 00:25:00,400
So sometimes they were included like in your newspaper, things like that.

440
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,400
Okay.

441
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,320
So there's like a missing person's alert type of thing.

442
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:07,320
Yes.

443
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Yeah.

444
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:09,320
Essentially that's what we're talking about.

445
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,600
They were distributed in kind of, I think, a variety of ways at this point in history, but

446
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,160
yes, that's the ultimate takeaway.

447
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,200
They were circulated.

448
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:27,640
A $1,000 cash reward was raised for tips in the case, $900 from friends and family, and

449
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,520
another 100 that was donated by a motor safety club.

450
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,640
Oh, I know.

451
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:40,320
Even the clubs in the 1950s were just, it's very wholesome.

452
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,600
Just days after Christmas on December 29, a woman phoned authorities with the tip that

453
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:53,880
the family was, quote, "In water by a totem pole."

454
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:54,880
End quote.

455
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,600
In water?

456
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,600
Mm-hmm.

457
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,600
By a totem pole?

458
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:00,600
Mm-hmm.

459
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,120
Okay.

460
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:03,120
Mm-hmm.

461
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:10,280
Though reportedly she could not say where exactly, which tracks because I don't know where

462
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:11,280
that would be.

463
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,280
Yeah.

464
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:13,560
It could be a hole in water.

465
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,120
It could be anywhere and nowhere.

466
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:22,400
But eventually, it seemed like the trail hit Gong cold despite the best efforts of detective

467
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:30,880
Walter Graven, which I'm going to be honest, nothing against him, because actually I think

468
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:37,960
he's a good dude, and he did probably as good a job as anybody might have.

469
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:45,720
But I don't want the detective that's involved with my case to be named Graven.

470
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:46,720
Oh.

471
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,720
Sounds great.

472
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,720
Yeah, great.

473
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:49,720
You know what I mean?

474
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,720
Little bit grave.

475
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,000
It's a little too on the nose.

476
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,600
But honestly, he's great as far as I know.

477
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:56,600
Oh.

478
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:58,480
He was a man from the 1950s.

479
00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:59,720
So, you know.

480
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,400
Was the person who called and said it was in water by a totem pole?

481
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,680
Were they like a psychic?

482
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,680
Girl?

483
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:07,680
Yeah.

484
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:08,680
Oh, okay.

485
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,680
Did you say that?

486
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,760
And I just like missed it?

487
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,760
No.

488
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:13,760
Okay.

489
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,760
No.

490
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:20,880
We're not really going to come back to that because they could never really substantiate anything

491
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,680
that this person said.

492
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,800
It just sounds like a psychic would say that.

493
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,160
Like, I don't know where, but I'm seeing water in a totem pole.

494
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:30,160
No.

495
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:31,160
A thousand percent.

496
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,000
Your instincts are totally on.

497
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:42,040
I mean, because I believe that report came in on the telephone, it's like, who knows who

498
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:47,320
that person was or like anybody can call themselves a psychic, right?

499
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,720
But, yes.

500
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:54,400
It's one of those like kind of creepy cold case.

501
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,400
Really?

502
00:27:55,400 --> 00:28:00,320
I mean, just generally true crime case things that like comes back so frequently.

503
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:06,920
Why are there so many psychics that want to give information to the police?

504
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:14,840
I guess if you legitimately think you have information, even if it sounds wild, I mean,

505
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,840
what's the harm, I guess?

506
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,880
Do a certain degree, but I don't.

507
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,880
But you don't want them like wasting all their time and resources on.

508
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:24,880
Yeah.

509
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,560
I don't know, maybe bring it to like a private search team or something and see if they would

510
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,360
like to take it on.

511
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:37,240
I mean, I don't really know the options, but there's got to be something better than just

512
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:42,320
like, I don't know, wasting the time of police.

513
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,280
Well, and here's the thing.

514
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:53,200
In this case, we have enough information to know that the disappearance was taken seriously

515
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,800
really from the beginning.

516
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:02,720
And there's more information than I anticipated, like a lot more.

517
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Wow.

518
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,680
Unfortunately, a lot of it is, I think broadly speaking, you'd say, well, sure that looks

519
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:18,800
this way or that, but it's very circumstantial.

520
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:23,400
Through the course of the investigation, it would come to light that just a day after their

521
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:29,960
disappearance, a stolen white Chevrolet was found east of the Cascade locks.

522
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:36,560
The vehicle was registered in California where it had been stolen by two ex-convex, who

523
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:42,520
conveniently were at this time they were escaped.

524
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,360
They had a scop aid.

525
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Holy shit.

526
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,280
They were apprehended the day after the Martin family disappearance.

527
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:51,600
So they caught them?

528
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:52,600
Mm-hmm.

529
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,600
That's what apprehended me.

530
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,600
Yeah.

531
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,360
But it's like, oh, interesting.

532
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:08,120
So an abandoned vehicle, two ex-cons from California in the same area at the same time.

533
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,160
I don't know.

534
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:15,480
Didn't someone see the family's vehicle, like two guys talking to them?

535
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,480
Sure did.

536
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:17,880
I'm glad you brought that up.

537
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,360
Oh, I'm really paying attention today.

538
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,960
It's going to, there's, okay.

539
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,240
Later, it would be revealed that the owner of the diner that the Martin family had reportedly

540
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,240
stopped at for lunch knew one of the escapees.

541
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,680
The one that changed her story?

542
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:39,680
The owner.

543
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:40,680
Oh, okay, okay.

544
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Not the waitress.

545
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:42,680
That, okay.

546
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:43,680
I see.

547
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,680
Oh.

548
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:45,680
Still?

549
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:52,640
Yeah, I mean, either way, it's like there's more than one person that puts them there in

550
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:58,160
that diner, which is really important because of what I'm about to say next.

551
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:04,720
He stated that while on the lamb, the two men had been there that day at the diner as well,

552
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:09,800
and even left the establishment around the same time as the family.

553
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,040
Oh, it's so juicy.

554
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,040
Oh, girl.

555
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,600
You don't even know.

556
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,600
You don't even know.

557
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,600
I'm waiting to know.

558
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,400
I know.

559
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,400
Something else odd happened within a short time after the family's disappearance in the

560
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,400
area.

561
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:38,360
A bloody 38-cult commander, Han-Gun, was recovered in the very same area where the vehicle

562
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,320
had been discovered abandoned.

563
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,320
You know the one that was stolen by the two ex-cons?

564
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,320
Right.

565
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,320
Okay, okay.

566
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,640
A bloody gun means like they were close.

567
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,640
I assume.

568
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,160
I don't know.

569
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,400
Oh, I think you may be on to something.

570
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,400
When it was discovered in the bushes, it was covered in dried blood.

571
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:09,120
The man and his wife, who had found it, turned it into the local police, but it was ultimately

572
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,200
just returned to him.

573
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,880
By the person who found it?

574
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,880
Yeah.

575
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,360
He turned it into the police and the police were like, we're all done with this.

576
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,000
So you can have a back.

577
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:28,800
That doesn't seem like the right thing to be doing with a bloody gun, but someone found.

578
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:29,800
Okay.

579
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,240
Well, here's the thing.

580
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,280
My understanding is that he turned it into the local police, which would have been like

581
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:44,440
Hood River, different jurisdiction from PPB, the Portland police.

582
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:52,160
When Detective Walter Graven of the Multnomah County Police learned of the gun, he wanted

583
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,640
to explore that avenue in his investigation because, do I?

584
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,680
But of course, he couldn't because it had been found outside his jurisdiction in Portland

585
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:09,360
Oregon, within Multnomah County, and had reportedly, again, like I said, already been returned

586
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:15,600
to the Good Samaritan that turned it in before he would ever get the chance.

587
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,120
I just feel like common sense.

588
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:28,840
It's a bloody thing that can murder people and you're not going to just keep it in evidence

589
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:30,360
just in Kate.

590
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:37,960
I mean, at that point, they just did not have the same scientific capabilities.

591
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,960
I know.

592
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:39,960
I know.

593
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:40,960
I know.

594
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,560
It's a bloody murder weapon because it has blood on it.

595
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,360
It literally has blood on it.

596
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,360
Yeah.

597
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:48,360
It literally has blood on it.

598
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,000
Like, if it was just a gun, okay, maybe.

599
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,840
But like, even then, maybe don't give guns to people who just find them.

600
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:56,840
Yeah.

601
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,840
I mean, finders keepers.

602
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:05,880
Let's not play finders keepers with guns, okay, guns.

603
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,360
I really don't think we should.

604
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:14,800
And so a case quickly turning cold continued to grow even colder with time.

605
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,480
There were a number of reported potential sightings of the Martin family vehicle from along

606
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:28,840
the I-5 corridor in Oregon to Burlington, Iowa and Billings, Montana.

607
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:35,000
But the whereabouts of the Martin family remained unknown.

608
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:41,400
In the new year, some potential new developments in the case gave hope to an increasingly cold

609
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,480
investigation.

610
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:53,360
In May 1959, following a tentative tip that arrived dating back to February, a river drilling

611
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,320
rig hooked something heavy and metal on its anchor.

612
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,280
No!

613
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,000
But unfortunately, came loose before broaching the surface.

614
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,440
Evidence emerged just a few short days later suggesting that the Martin family car

615
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:20,160
had plunged off a cliff into the Columbia River near the Dalles.

616
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,160
No!

617
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,160
In the water!

618
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,920
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna keep going.

619
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:35,880
It was still early May of 1959 when that evidence, the bodies of the two youngest Martin girls

620
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,880
were discovered.

621
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:45,480
Susan's body was found in the Columbia Slow near Camus, Washington, followed by Virginia's

622
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:52,040
body near the Bonneville Dam spillway, not far from the Cascade Locks.

623
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:57,600
Despite these long overdue discoveries, the car was never discovered.

624
00:35:57,600 --> 00:35:58,600
Never recovered.

625
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,800
Holy shit, dude!

626
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,640
Though some believe it was in fact the Martin vehicle that was briefly dislodged from the

627
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:12,240
river by the drilling rig that loosed the two girls that were subsequently discovered,

628
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,280
which I have to say makes a lot of sense to me.

629
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:21,920
It does, like the timing of everything.

630
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:27,920
Susan's body was taken to the Clark County morgue in Vancouver and in both cases the cause

631
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,240
of death was listed as drowning.

632
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:36,600
Supports the theory of the car, unless they were shot first?

633
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,280
Well, but it says cause of death is drowning.

634
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:48,520
So they were not decomposed too much to where they could figure out the cause of death?

635
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:58,880
I think despite whatever decomposition there may have been, it's cold enough in the months

636
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,320
leading up to May.

637
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:13,320
And I think if the decomposition is not too advanced, it stands to reason I think for me.

638
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:22,280
And I'm by no means an expert, but I would think that water in the lungs, that would be

639
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:29,080
something that might be preserved for a little bit longer, especially like I said, those

640
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:34,280
are colder months of the year, particularly out towards Hood River.

641
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:35,280
Yeah.

642
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,800
I was just thinking of like the bloody gun that was found.

643
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:40,800
Right.

644
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:41,800
I don't know.

645
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:48,720
I don't know what I would prefer to like be shot or drown.

646
00:37:48,720 --> 00:37:53,600
Yeah.

647
00:37:53,600 --> 00:38:04,200
I think it seems clear that probably I don't think that there was a choice.

648
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,440
So of course not.

649
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:16,080
But I hope what they say about death by drowning is true because I've always heard from various

650
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:21,400
sources and different things that I've read over the years that that is supposed to

651
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:25,720
be one of the more peaceful ways to die.

652
00:38:25,720 --> 00:38:29,760
Yeah, I was just thinking I don't want people to suffer.

653
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,200
So whatever the least amount of suffering is.

654
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:35,200
Yeah.

655
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:36,200
I don't know.

656
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:44,320
It's hard to imagine because of course being slowly suffocated is not good, but I've

657
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:52,320
always heard that once you reach a certain point and the oxygen deprivation, it's a certain

658
00:38:52,320 --> 00:39:00,040
level that there's sort of a euphoria that kind of floods your system.

659
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,440
God, I would hope that there's something in place in your body to help protect your

660
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,320
mind at the end.

661
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,320
Right.

662
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:09,320
Yeah.

663
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,920
This is a dark conversation.

664
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:11,920
Sorry.

665
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:12,920
Yeah.

666
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:13,920
That one.

667
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,920
It's not about to get better necessarily.

668
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:25,160
Susan was identified based on her clothing as well as her dental records.

669
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:26,160
Dr. A.E.

670
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:33,080
Waterman, the Martin family is dentist stated, all fillings in this girl's mouth match

671
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:34,400
Susan's.

672
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:40,520
Susan had been wearing red and white petal pushers and a blue quilted coat.

673
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:41,920
Stop it.

674
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:42,920
Yeah.

675
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,000
Also more red and white.

676
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,240
That's interesting.

677
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,240
Yeah.

678
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:53,640
But like this primary color scheme I like that she's got going on.

679
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:54,640
Yeah.

680
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:55,640
Blue and blue.

681
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:56,640
Mm-hmm.

682
00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:04,680
Dr. Charles Larson, a pathologist from Tacoma was summoned to perform her autopsy.

683
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:10,720
Eventually, the underwater searches were called off when it diver very nearly perished

684
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:14,400
in the efforts to discover the fate of the Martin family.

685
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,400
Ooh.

686
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,040
That's so scary.

687
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:18,040
Yeah.

688
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:22,880
I mean, it's, I think, a very risky endeavor.

689
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:32,400
I think, I mean, very much to this day you are taking your life in your own hands when you

690
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,400
go diving.

691
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,600
And I mean, not to put anybody at a heightened sense of alarm.

692
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,880
But it is a risky thing to do.

693
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:46,200
And of course, there are people that are like trained experts, but it makes sense that at

694
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:53,440
that point they would decide, you know, does the benefit outweigh the potential harm.

695
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:54,440
Right.

696
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,960
Yeah, you don't want to lose anyone else as much as you want to know what happened, but

697
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,960
you kind of at this point already have an answer.

698
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:07,680
So like why do you need to keep looking if it's so risky?

699
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:13,440
I mean, there are three remaining family members that have never been found along with the vehicle.

700
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,920
So I can understand why they continued, but I do think that, you know, if you can't do

701
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:26,440
it safely, you can do, yeah, it's a tough call.

702
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,040
I wouldn't want to be the one that makes that call.

703
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:30,840
I will say that.

704
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:31,840
No.

705
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:40,000
Still, not all was lost as it turns out though police work was at times tedious and thankless,

706
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,960
Detective Walter Graven was quite dedicated.

707
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:49,840
However, his efforts would continually be met by frustration after devastating frustration,

708
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,600
further freezing the case with time.

709
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:59,880
Detective Walter Graven is said to have never abandoned the case.

710
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:06,040
Following his personal effects, a notebook full of his notes pertaining to the case was preserved

711
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,800
stowed away in this case.

712
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,920
One excerpt indicated he might have suspected he was on the right track with a particular

713
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,760
suspect in the case.

714
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:24,480
Stating about the Martin family's disappearance and presumed demise that it has to be planned

715
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,320
by, but unfortunately, the name was blacked out.

716
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,840
If it was a name, redacted.

717
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,400
So it's impossible to read.

718
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:41,400
And after he died in 1988, his suspicions went with him to the grave.

719
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,640
Why was it blacked out?

720
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,160
Uh, uh, did he do it?

721
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:49,440
Did someone else come through and look through his stuff and redact it?

722
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:50,760
It's hard to say.

723
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,400
I would assume he did it.

724
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:56,120
Yeah, I would assume too, because like why wouldn't they just like burn it or whatever,

725
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,120
but.

726
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:03,400
Well, and it's stowed away inside a suitcase, you know, this is like a movie.

727
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:04,640
Oh, totally.

728
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:07,160
I mean, it really is.

729
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:13,880
Though notably, his ambition to solve the case lived on as his grandson regaled local news

730
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,960
media with some stories that he had shared over the years.

731
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:25,120
So this is a case that literally stayed with him until he had grandchildren.

732
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:26,120
Yeah.

733
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,840
And then he like passed the dedication on to his grandchildren.

734
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:30,840
Yeah.

735
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:31,840
Or at least one of them.

736
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,240
I mean, it was certainly something that stuck with them.

737
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:41,280
I don't believe that his grandson entered, you know, the law enforcement field, but.

738
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,280
Oh, yeah.

739
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:43,920
Like the stories.

740
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:44,920
Yeah.

741
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,760
But it's, it's had an impact on him.

742
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:54,280
And I'm thinking we may have a little Patreon mini-saud that sort of touches on some

743
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,080
more modern aspects of the case.

744
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,080
Okay.

745
00:43:58,080 --> 00:43:59,680
Yeah.

746
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,200
But there was still one remaining member of the Martin family.

747
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:10,640
And as is the case in any murder investigation, the detective had to explore every possible

748
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,840
suspect and lead to try to determine what happened.

749
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:22,200
Oh, this is where Donald suddenly becomes a far more intriguing character in our story.

750
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,480
I kind of forgot about Donald until you just said that.

751
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:26,480
Yeah.

752
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,200
Of course, he'd been far away from his family at the time of the disappearance.

753
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,440
He's, it was a verifiable fact.

754
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,480
I mean, at the time he was enlisted in the Navy and he was stationed in New York State at

755
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:42,680
Fort Skylar.

756
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:47,080
Couldn't really get a whole lot further away unless he went international.

757
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:48,080
Right.

758
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:49,080
Okay.

759
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:57,400
Besides, surely he wouldn't have had any involvement in the disappearance of his entire family, right?

760
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,280
I would hope not.

761
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:00,280
Yeah.

762
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:06,120
I mean, why would he wish harm on any of the people that he'd grown up with?

763
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:07,600
I don't know.

764
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,760
I could think of reasons, but I don't want to say.

765
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:19,280
Now, it's entirely possible that he didn't have any ill will towards his own family.

766
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,400
I feel like that would be kind of the default setting.

767
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:24,400
Hopefully.

768
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:25,760
Right.

769
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:34,160
After all, he was never arrested in connection with a crime related to his family's disappearance.

770
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,000
Though that's not to say that he had never committed a crime.

771
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,160
I knew you were going to say that.

772
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:48,520
In fact, he'd stolen thousands from his previous employer, Meyer and Frank, about five years

773
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:49,520
prior.

774
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,840
Is that why they're out of business now?

775
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,920
It is not.

776
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:57,920
Not related.

777
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:02,000
But I mean, it's not a good sign for the future.

778
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,000
No.

779
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:06,320
I mean, it certainly didn't help.

780
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,640
That's awful.

781
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:08,960
Yeah.

782
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,880
At the time, he blamed it on problems at home.

783
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:20,120
And though he wasn't arrested, it seems the store may have been repaid by the family in

784
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,280
order to avoid entanglement with legal system.

785
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,280
Okay.

786
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:27,280
Interesting.

787
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:32,240
So at home, you mean his family family or like his girlfriend at home?

788
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:33,240
Yes.

789
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:34,240
Okay.

790
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:37,280
Because this is when he was still living with the family.

791
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,280
Okay.

792
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:39,280
Yeah.

793
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:46,000
A five-year-old theft hardly equates to motive for family annihilation.

794
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:52,520
But of course, there are more details that have resulted in a few raised eyebrows in the

795
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,600
years that followed.

796
00:46:54,600 --> 00:47:01,720
It wasn't until June 3rd, 1959 that Donald returned to Oregon.

797
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:04,720
His family went missing in December.

798
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,320
That is six months.

799
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,200
Okay.

800
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,640
So you think he would return sooner?

801
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:11,640
Yeah.

802
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:12,640
And it's going to come up.

803
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:18,400
I'm only saying that just because I want to make sure that like, because like, I can tell

804
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:22,640
I'm like, you've been like on the edge of your seat and stuff, but like some of the dates

805
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,640
and like other details.

806
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,200
I'm like, I just want to make sure that's like.

807
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,200
Thank you.

808
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,760
Because in the back of my mind, I was stuck on like an ADHD thing.

809
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:35,280
And I was thinking how like Oregon ducks and he's Donald.

810
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,280
Donald?

811
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:42,040
And I was like trying so hard to pay attention to what you were saying.

812
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,840
I feel like I was pick up on it.

813
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,280
Well, I was like, okay, she didn't react to the June 3rd thing.

814
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,120
And I was like, I feel like maybe the dates aren't fresh enough.

815
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:53,640
So I was like, okay, I'm going to say it.

816
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,760
And we can totally like cut that whole bit out or whatever.

817
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:57,760
I don't know.

818
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,000
But I was like, it fits a fit.

819
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,440
If it fits, it sits.

820
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:04,440
Yeah.

821
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,960
No, I also think I needed a second to like process.

822
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:08,920
Yeah, the dates to see it.

823
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,360
Like yeah, okay, yeah, he should have been there sooner because his whole family disappeared.

824
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,760
I mean, you could make the argument.

825
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:20,960
He's enlisted in the military and like they don't get to come and go as they please.

826
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:29,680
But historically, if there's a death in the family, you kind of get a pass for that.

827
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:30,680
Yeah.

828
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,000
And unless he was stuck on a boat or something, but Navy, it was Navy out on the boat.

829
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,000
Yeah, that's the Navy.

830
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,600
He was that board skiler.

831
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:38,920
He wasn't on a boat.

832
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:39,920
Okay.

833
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:40,920
Okay.

834
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:41,920
Actively that I'm aware of.

835
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:42,920
I see.

836
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:48,360
He reportedly claimed that he didn't return home sooner because his aunt Charlotte told

837
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,360
him at the time of the disappearance that there was nothing more that he could do back home

838
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,040
by leaving his military post.

839
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,280
Which sounds reasonable.

840
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,280
Yeah.

841
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:04,640
And his aunt denied having made this statement or discouraging his immediate return.

842
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:05,640
Okay.

843
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,240
So he said she said.

844
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:08,240
Yeah.

845
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,960
And I'm sorry, but she's like a second grade school teacher.

846
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,960
So why would she lie?

847
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,240
Uh, on it, she doesn't have any reason to lie.

848
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:18,240
Yeah.

849
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:25,240
My voice got really high there because she wouldn't lie.

850
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:31,680
Maybe this was a miscommunication of some sort, though when Donald did make his way back

851
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:41,240
to Oregon, he didn't attend the funeral held for his family due to a scheduling misunderstanding.

852
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:45,320
Well, what else are you doing?

853
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,080
Uh, dude.

854
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,080
Yeah.

855
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,320
I mean, that's the first of many questions that I have.

856
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:53,320
Yeah.

857
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:54,320
That's weird.

858
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,560
I mean, I don't know.

859
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:58,160
Everyone grieves different.

860
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,760
Maybe he just couldn't handle it.

861
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,320
And so he was like, okay, well, like I have this other thing.

862
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:05,400
I said, like really important.

863
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,800
I got to do that instead.

864
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,800
I got to go do that.

865
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:09,800
So I don't know.

866
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:14,600
Maybe it's one of those things where, yeah, some people just like can't, some people just

867
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,000
can't handle it.

868
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,200
I don't know.

869
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,720
It's happened recently in my family where someone didn't come to a funeral.

870
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:23,720
So.

871
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:31,480
And it's tough, but I would say, I mean, my God, this is the entirety of your immediate family.

872
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:32,480
Yeah.

873
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,640
Again, like you said, everybody grieves differently.

874
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:46,560
And I've seen on a very personal level, like the, a number of the wide variety of iterations

875
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,040
of what grief looks like.

876
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:53,000
But that seems bizarre.

877
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Yeah.

878
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:58,160
That seems bizarre.

879
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:03,240
While he was there, he did plan to settle his inheritance due to the presumption that the

880
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,960
rest of his family was dead.

881
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:13,360
Donald had noticed there were missing financial documents as he'd gone through the home and

882
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:18,080
family's belongings while he was there.

883
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:24,000
So it takes seven long years to get through probate.

884
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:29,200
As required by law, there was a seven year waiting period to establish the presumption

885
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:32,200
of death of the parents.

886
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:39,160
Once that period had come and gone, there was a $14,000 life insurance policy to settle.

887
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,560
Is that because they didn't find their bodies?

888
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,560
Right.

889
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,560
Wow.

890
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:45,560
Okay.

891
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:46,560
Interesting.

892
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:47,560
Yeah.

893
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:55,000
And remember, I had said early on that the home was valued at approximately $15,000 and

894
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:02,400
there was $15,000 in cash and/or other valuables.

895
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:08,520
That's why I think it's so interesting thinking about, okay, well, what were the other valuables?

896
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,040
Obviously, not the car.

897
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,040
Never remembered.

898
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,040
Right.

899
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,040
Yeah.

900
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:23,480
How much cash did they have?

901
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:24,480
I don't know.

902
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:30,800
So you're saying like it sounds like that stuff is missing or well, no, what I'm saying is

903
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:38,360
presumably if there was a lot of cash on hand, there's a house that obviously has a significant

904
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:49,600
monetary value and then additionally down the line, once the probate process is all negotiated,

905
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,440
there's also a $14,000 life insurance policy.

906
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,440
I see.

907
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:54,440
Okay.

908
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:01,800
I mean, I didn't do the math or an inflation calculator, but I have to imagine that roughly

909
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:06,480
$45,000 from 1959.

910
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:07,480
Right.

911
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,080
Yeah, that's a lot.

912
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:11,080
It's a lot.

913
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:16,280
So that's a good little payout for the one surviving member of the family.

914
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,080
Correct.

915
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,080
But was it true that something was a miss in the Martin family home?

916
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:33,680
He's saying there's documents and specifically potentially financial documents that have gone

917
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,120
missing.

918
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:41,000
And in the year since the disappearance, a neighbor had come forward to authorities to

919
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,640
provide additional information in the case.

920
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:50,440
A black taxi had pulled into the driveway of the Martin family home on the morning after

921
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:52,440
the disappearance.

922
00:53:52,440 --> 00:54:00,080
However, the main investigator did not get this information until six months later.

923
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,760
The information only seemed relevant to the neighbor in hindsight as they became aware

924
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,240
of the Martin family's disappearance.

925
00:54:07,240 --> 00:54:12,880
Because otherwise, why is that something that you would, I mean, give more than a second

926
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:13,880
thought to?

927
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:14,880
Right.

928
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:19,080
That would be like, if you'd notice every Uber.

929
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:20,080
Yeah.

930
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:26,400
Obviously, taxis coming in and out of your neighborhood were probably far less frequent

931
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,400
than that.

932
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,200
Especially like a black taxi.

933
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,200
I don't know.

934
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,200
Yeah.

935
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:34,200
That seems like a fancy taxi.

936
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:40,520
Yeah, I'm not sure if that was a different point in history.

937
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,040
Taxis have had a different aesthetic.

938
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:52,040
I don't know if that was a regional thing or like to a town car, ordering a town car or

939
00:54:52,040 --> 00:54:53,040
whatever.

940
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,040
Kind of.

941
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:55,040
Yeah.

942
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:56,040
I agree.

943
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:57,040
It was interesting.

944
00:54:57,040 --> 00:54:59,640
I didn't dig super deep on that.

945
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:07,480
But if it was true, it lent credence to Donald suspicions that perhaps someone had been in

946
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:13,520
the home and even removed important financial information or other documents.

947
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:17,120
So how does he know that they're missing?

948
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,800
Like how does he know about them?

949
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,200
That was kind of my first question.

950
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:22,200
Hard to say.

951
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,200
What kind of documents?

952
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:26,200
Yeah.

953
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:27,840
If you know they're missing, you know what they are.

954
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:28,840
What are they?

955
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:29,840
Right.

956
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:30,840
What are they?

957
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:31,840
Exactly.

958
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:32,840
Yeah.

959
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:37,320
I feel like more than anything, this just really opens a lot more follow up questions.

960
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:43,520
As the sole surviving member of the immediate Martin family, Donald did stand to benefit financially

961
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:48,200
from the family's estate and remaining assets.

962
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:53,720
His sister's bodies that had been recovered were quickly cremated after their remains were

963
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:54,720
discovered.

964
00:55:54,720 --> 00:55:55,720
Okay.

965
00:55:55,720 --> 00:55:59,240
That doesn't seem like the right thing to do.

966
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:00,240
Yeah.

967
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:07,120
I mean, at different points in history and depending on sort of the era and the circumstances

968
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:13,160
of potential crime, I feel like there are certain lengths of time that you would expect

969
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:21,160
that bond enforcement would sort of hold over.

970
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,480
And they would say, you know, no, we're not going to allow you.

971
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:31,600
If you want to have your loved one cremated, that's fine.

972
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:36,720
We're not here to tell you what to do in that regard.

973
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:42,800
But you are going to have to wait a certain length of time before we will allow that because

974
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:50,600
if there's evidence or sort of a suspicion of a crime, like we have to be able to gather

975
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:53,720
all of that evidence and solved.

976
00:56:53,720 --> 00:56:54,720
Right.

977
00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:02,600
Of course, you know, autopsies were performed, but and quickly is relative, quickly in the

978
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,120
1950s versus quickly now.

979
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:12,440
I don't know precisely what that time window looked like, but it was flagged.

980
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:18,520
It was flagged, you know, by people that were familiar with the story and in a lot of the

981
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:26,140
reporting, probably because at least in part due to the fact that they were held in their

982
00:57:26,140 --> 00:57:33,240
urns at the mausoleum for 10 years, which I'm given to understand means that Donald never

983
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,600
claimed them.

984
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:40,760
So he like, he had to say the okay for them to get cremated, right?

985
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:41,760
Right.

986
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,960
So that he was like, okay, cremate them and then didn't pick them up.

987
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:47,800
So obviously he didn't really care.

988
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:48,800
I don't know.

989
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,800
And he's in the military, right?

990
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:51,800
I guess.

991
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:57,560
I guess that could account for a certain amount of some of these things, but they were held

992
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:04,720
by the facility in their urns for 10 years.

993
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,160
That's a lot of years.

994
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:14,120
You're not too busy for 10 years just to at least pick up a phone call and say, hey, can

995
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,800
you FedEx me my dead relative?

996
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,440
Ma'am.

997
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:26,920
This only came to light when his grandmother passed away just a few days after Christmas in 1969

998
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:31,400
as her funeral and other arrangements were being made.

999
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:36,640
It was then decided that all three would be buried and interred together.

1000
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:38,920
No.

1001
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:42,800
And this is another thing that gets a little bit weird.

1002
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:50,680
It sort of goes back to that what you were saying about, you know, people grieve in different

1003
00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:52,440
ways.

1004
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:58,320
He reportedly never shared the details of what had happened to his family when he started

1005
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:01,840
a family of his own across the country.

1006
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:08,320
He continued to live outside the state of Oregon and married his wife Helen at age 36.

1007
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:13,080
They went on to raise a family of their own.

1008
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:19,040
Donald was said to initially have been alienated from the family by his parents disapproval.

1009
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:25,400
As Evan said that whether he came out to them or they merely suspected it, they believed

1010
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,400
he was gay.

1011
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,280
Oh, interesting.

1012
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:35,920
Donald had reportedly been sent to a religious school in Connecticut where they attempted

1013
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:37,600
to convert him.

1014
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,600
Oh, that's rough, dude.

1015
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,000
Yeah.

1016
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:47,600
Is it possible that his family might have done such a thing?

1017
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:54,960
I mean, it seems like there is evidence or some sort of, you know, statements made by people

1018
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:59,160
that knew the family that indicate yes, that's what happened.

1019
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:00,160
Wow.

1020
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:05,280
Sadly, at the time, certainly, very possible.

1021
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:12,240
And unfortunately today, very possibly, might they have sent him to a reform school simply

1022
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,360
because he'd been caught stealing?

1023
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:18,560
That's admittedly also a possibility.

1024
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,960
Mmm, but there's also one last thing.

1025
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,640
No, I don't want anymore.

1026
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:24,640
I'm done.

1027
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:25,640
Well done.

1028
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:28,560
You're going to want to know.

1029
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:34,840
One of the items that Donald had stolen dating back to his days at Myron Frank.

1030
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:41,040
Was it gun that matched the description of the one found under the rock in the cascade

1031
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:42,440
blocks?

1032
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,480
The bloody gun.

1033
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,160
It even had the same serial number.

1034
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:50,760
Okay.

1035
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:55,800
It had already been cleaned by the man who found it after being returned by the authorities.

1036
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,040
Of course.

1037
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:03,120
The main investigator, Walter Groven, began to speculate that even though Donald was

1038
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:09,080
across the country, maybe he could have hired someone to carry out the deed.

1039
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:13,120
Maybe even two ex-cons?

1040
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:17,080
And that's where I'm going to actually leave this one.

1041
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:18,080
Wow.

1042
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:19,080
I know.

1043
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:22,000
But ending was like such a twist.

1044
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:23,000
I know.

1045
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:24,000
I know.

1046
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:30,520
It's like just, I guess just because these people died presumably tragically that they were

1047
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:36,600
good people, but still doesn't mean that they deserved to die the way they died.

1048
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:37,600
Oh, absolutely.

1049
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:38,600
Yeah.

1050
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:39,600
Also, the kids.

1051
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,320
I'm sure the kids don't have anything to do with that.

1052
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:43,320
Right.

1053
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:48,160
They're blameless regardless of whatever their parents might have done.

1054
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:56,800
And I mean, obviously at this point, even if they had not been in the vehicle when it was,

1055
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:04,040
I mean, this is one theory, obviously, when it was submerged in the Columbia River, more

1056
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:10,280
than likely, all three of the remaining family members that were not previously found, they

1057
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:14,920
would probably be dead.

1058
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:21,600
I mean, I suppose with the exception of Barbie because she was only 14 at the time.

1059
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:26,720
So she very much, you know, she could still be alive at this point.

1060
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:36,640
If she had survived whatever happened to the rest of the family, but there's a lot of,

1061
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:39,240
there's a lot of different ways this case could go.

1062
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:46,640
But I think the fact that, you know, there are so many obvious tie-ins.

1063
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:57,160
This gun that's discovered right by the stolen vehicle, the X-con, and that gun happens to

1064
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:05,000
be more than likely the gun that Donald stole from Iron Frank.

1065
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:14,680
I just honestly, obviously, they were never able to piece together enough to feel like there

1066
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:18,720
was a case that they could win.

1067
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:22,080
Did they have enough for a case at some point?

1068
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:30,520
I think possibly, but DA likes to go for a case that they think they can win.

1069
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,320
That seems like a hot, this one seems hard.

1070
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:34,320
Yeah.

1071
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:42,920
There's a lot of things that feel like, ooh, but then it, it's like, it goes back to, like

1072
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:49,200
I said, at the top, it really is a lot of very circumstantial things.

1073
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,440
Yeah, you're right.

1074
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:52,440
Yeah.

1075
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:53,440
I know.

1076
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,440
Who knew?

1077
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:55,440
It's like I wrote this thing.

1078
01:03:55,440 --> 01:04:00,080
It's like you researched the shit out of this or something.

1079
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:02,240
I mean, it's a wild one though.

1080
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:03,240
It does.

1081
01:04:03,240 --> 01:04:12,480
And there are some things that I read that make it sound even a little bit more salacious.

1082
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:18,200
There are some things that I was like, I'm not sure that I'm seeing that echoed throughout

1083
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:19,320
the source material.

1084
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:25,200
So I don't know if I feel confident enough to say to include that.

1085
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:31,040
But there were some other kind of things that were rumored that I was like, ooh, boy.

1086
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,680
If it's true, it gets even wilder.

1087
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:35,680
But whoo.

1088
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:39,240
Well, let's go to Patreon and talk about it.

1089
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:40,240
Right?

1090
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,320
See you in the Patreon.

1091
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,120
See what the post.

1092
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:48,560
Should we do in tarot?

1093
01:04:48,560 --> 01:04:51,520
Yeah, should we do some tarot about it?

1094
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:52,520
Let's do it.

1095
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:53,520
I'm ready.

1096
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:54,520
Bitchin.

1097
01:04:54,520 --> 01:05:00,360
I'm gonna have nothing to do with it because I'm not in your vicinity, but I'll send you

1098
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,360
my powers and vibes.

1099
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:03,360
You guys.

1100
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:08,680
I'm doing witchy mind powers to you.

1101
01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:14,120
Oh, shuffling is hard.

1102
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:15,120
Okay.

1103
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:19,400
I'll send you my vibes and you'll film through your fingertips.

1104
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:25,400
Oh, it's the ten of cups.

1105
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:26,800
Okay.

1106
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:27,800
In reverse.

1107
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:30,000
Oh, it looks like monkeys.

1108
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,400
Is it monkeys?

1109
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:33,400
Nope, not a monkey.

1110
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,640
I can't tell it's blurry.

1111
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:37,640
It's birds.

1112
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:39,640
Oh, are they on a tree?

1113
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:40,640
Yeah.

1114
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:41,640
Okay, okay.

1115
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:42,640
I thought it was like monkeys on a tree.

1116
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:43,640
I see it.

1117
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:44,640
Yeah.

1118
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:45,640
Yeah.

1119
01:05:45,640 --> 01:05:47,640
How many birds are there?

1120
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:48,640
Four.

1121
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:53,280
So numerically, it doesn't fully align for me, but we'll see.

1122
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:54,280
We'll see.

1123
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,680
You said it was a four of cups?

1124
01:05:56,680 --> 01:05:58,000
No, the ten of cups.

1125
01:05:58,000 --> 01:05:59,000
Oh, okay.

1126
01:05:59,000 --> 01:06:02,840
Oh, ten of cups is like the family card.

1127
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:04,720
That's really interesting.

1128
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:05,720
Yeah.

1129
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,720
Oh, oh, shit.

1130
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:09,720
Okay.

1131
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:10,720
Wow.

1132
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:11,720
Okay.

1133
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:18,880
I just always feel like cups is like I'm trying to sort of create a little bit of like muscle

1134
01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:27,320
memory for myself about like kind of broad strokes themes and things like that.

1135
01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:32,360
And cups to me just is so positive that I'm always a little bit like, okay.

1136
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,880
It is reversed though.

1137
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:34,880
It is reversed.

1138
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:36,880
That's one is kind of.

1139
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:37,880
Yeah.

1140
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:38,880
Boy, howdy.

1141
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:44,480
I skimmed real quick and okay.

1142
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:51,160
Keywords are comfort, happiness, domestic bliss, love and harmony.

1143
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:58,640
A card of fulfillment, the ten of cups represents a happy home where love and harmony abide.

1144
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:05,560
One deck show a contented couple gazing at their beautiful home while their children play.

1145
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:12,000
Others picture the pair with flowers, rainbows and other symbols of love and hope.

1146
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,400
You could think of this as the happy ever after card.

1147
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:22,080
I feel like that was like obviously just very much how they were being portrayed on the

1148
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,480
outside or how everything looked on the outside at least.

1149
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:26,480
Yeah.

1150
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:27,800
I totally agree.

1151
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:31,800
Like even when you were talking about it, we were always like, oh that's so wholesome.

1152
01:07:31,800 --> 01:07:34,800
Like dressed up like Santa.

1153
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:35,800
Yeah.

1154
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:44,520
It definitely has a very, it's a wholesome vibe.

1155
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,760
It's like very Brady Bunch.

1156
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:54,000
It's very of that era, which obviously the Brady Bunch I really came a little bit later.

1157
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:55,000
But you know what I mean?

1158
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,000
It's a vibe.

1159
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:05,360
The reverse ten may point to disharmony or disappointments in your home life.

1160
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,800
Things haven't turned out the way you'd expected.

1161
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:14,400
I feel like it was obviously was the perfect card.

1162
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:20,920
Sometimes it suggests a family that puts too much emphasis on stuff and not enough on

1163
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:21,920
love.

1164
01:08:21,920 --> 01:08:24,680
God.

1165
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:32,040
In some cases, this card may represent the loss of a home or children leaving home.

1166
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:33,040
Wow.

1167
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:35,880
There was like all of that going on.

1168
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:38,640
The oldest left home to go to the Navy.

1169
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:44,680
Yeah, which I feel like at that point in his life, that's a normal thing to do, but wow.

1170
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:50,640
But then like yeah, losing children and they were the only one who were found too.

1171
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:52,240
That's also interesting.

1172
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:56,440
But only, wait, it was three children, right?

1173
01:08:56,440 --> 01:08:57,960
And only two of them were found.

1174
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:58,960
Two of them were found.

1175
01:08:58,960 --> 01:08:59,960
Yeah.

1176
01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:03,200
The two younger of the three girls.

1177
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:08,880
In a reading about money, the ten reverse can mean having to scale down your expenditures

1178
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,200
and lifestyle.

1179
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:17,040
Sometimes it shows declining property values or squabbles over an inheritance.

1180
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:24,160
Whoa, or like having to pay for the fact that your son stole a bunch of shit too.

1181
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,000
I mean, it all fits.

1182
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:28,480
Oh my God.

1183
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:29,480
Holy shit.

1184
01:09:29,480 --> 01:09:30,880
Holy shit.

1185
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,720
Are we still so powerful from a distance?

1186
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,720
I think so.

1187
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:36,880
Okay.

1188
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:44,240
If the reading is about your job, this card says you're not as secure as you'd like to be.

1189
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:51,240
Sometimes within a company may threaten your position or company may grow too fast or

1190
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:55,720
overextend itself requiring you to work extra hard.

1191
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:00,200
I'm going to go ahead and say it because I don't think I stated it in so many words, but

1192
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:06,000
I think it goes without saying that Donald was fired from my iron Frank.

1193
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,000
Right.

1194
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,000
I would assume.

1195
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,000
Yeah.

1196
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:16,000
So I would say that matches up with problems within a company.

1197
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,000
Yeah, I think so.

1198
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:18,000
I think so.

1199
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,000
Your position.

1200
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:20,000
Whoa.

1201
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:21,000
Okay.

1202
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,560
Oh, this is very interesting.

1203
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:25,560
Okay.

1204
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:26,560
I'm not going to say anything.

1205
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:28,160
I want to get your take on this.

1206
01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:29,160
Okay.

1207
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:30,160
Okay.

1208
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:35,200
In a reading about love, a partner may not share your values or may have different ideas

1209
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:37,320
about family life.

1210
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:44,080
If you don't get along with the in-laws or kids from a former relationship cause problems.

1211
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:45,080
I don't know.

1212
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:51,040
My first thought was like not love is in like a relationship, but like love is in this

1213
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,480
is their family life and the parents don't agree.

1214
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:56,800
Maybe with how the sun wants to live his life.

1215
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:57,800
I don't know.

1216
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:58,800
Yeah.

1217
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:04,560
I feel like there's part of me that reads into this.

1218
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:13,920
And again, it's hard to know if Donald was actually someone who was gay.

1219
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:19,920
I mean, he married a woman and had children, but that was not an uncommon thing for a gay

1220
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,080
man to do at that point in history.

1221
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:24,080
Right.

1222
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,880
Especially if you freaking family tries to convert you if that happens.

1223
01:11:27,880 --> 01:11:28,880
Right.

1224
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:29,880
Right.

1225
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:37,960
It sounds I don't have any reason to doubt that his family did try to convert him and that

1226
01:11:37,960 --> 01:11:45,080
they were disapproving of that quote lifestyle.

1227
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:53,960
I think it does speak to just sort of a difference in values or as it says, different ideas about

1228
01:11:53,960 --> 01:12:01,720
family life.

1229
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:09,920
Or ultimately because if you are a gay man that is living closeted and you know, you're

1230
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:15,960
living with a partner and creating a family, ultimately that could speak to some conflict

1231
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:19,440
in the relationship that you have with that partner.

1232
01:12:19,440 --> 01:12:25,400
Yeah.

1233
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,960
I was totally thinking of his wife and wow.

1234
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:28,960
I was trying to think too.

1235
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,200
Did you mention in-laws?

1236
01:12:31,200 --> 01:12:36,960
I think you said the word in-laws in that statement, having trouble with your in-laws.

1237
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,680
It says maybe you don't get along with the in-laws.

1238
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:44,280
Pretty hard to not get along with the in-laws when they are dead.

1239
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:45,280
Right.

1240
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:46,280
Yeah.

1241
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:47,280
Presumably.

1242
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:52,640
I mean, at this point they certainly are regardless of what happened to them.

1243
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:53,840
Legally, yeah.

1244
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,240
I mean, legally or otherwise.

1245
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:02,320
It's been a number of years and they were both born in the early 1900s.

1246
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:04,320
They are certainly dead.

1247
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:05,320
Yeah.

1248
01:13:05,320 --> 01:13:07,280
I keep forgetting kind of how old this is.

1249
01:13:07,280 --> 01:13:08,280
Right.

1250
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:09,280
Right.

1251
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:10,280
I know.

1252
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:11,280
Yeah.

1253
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,760
It's because like you said, it feels like it could be happening recently.

1254
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:15,760
Yeah.

1255
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:16,760
It's kind of wild.

1256
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:23,080
Wow, I can't believe what I mean, I can't believe what a perfect card you've pulled, but still.

1257
01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:24,080
Yeah.

1258
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:25,080
It's crazy.

1259
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:31,000
It's just like the whole family vibe and it was about a family and yeah.

1260
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:33,960
It feels like I mean, dead on.

1261
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:34,960
It really does.

1262
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:39,360
Oh, I want to know the short story and like what kind of birds they were.

1263
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:40,760
Because I'm selfish.

1264
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,600
I was going to say, of course, you do.

1265
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,200
I want to know.

1266
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,200
Okay.

1267
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,120
So, blah, blah, blah.

1268
01:13:48,120 --> 01:13:52,440
It's, I mean, honestly, it's all the same keywords.

1269
01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:57,200
So I'll just read the little short story that's kind of, it serves as our interpretation.

1270
01:13:57,200 --> 01:13:59,160
What kind of birds are they?

1271
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,200
They are violet, green, swallows.

1272
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:03,200
Swallows.

1273
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:04,200
Swallows.

1274
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,040
You told me to swallow earlier.

1275
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:10,360
Yeah, sorry about that.

1276
01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:16,880
The sun shower had felt good, washing the swallow's feathers clean after too long cooped up in

1277
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:21,640
a nest that would be generously described as cozy.

1278
01:14:21,640 --> 01:14:26,760
But now that the summer rain was finally letting up, she was so ready to take to the air

1279
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:34,360
to stretch her wings and judging by their hungry chirping, again, already.

1280
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,440
Her chicks were ready for her to go to.

1281
01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:44,880
Her blitzed flicked outward from her wing tips as she rapidly beat the air, expertly intercepting

1282
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:48,680
insects to deliver to hungry beaks.

1283
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:55,000
Each time she returned, her mate eyed her admirably from the back of the nest.

1284
01:14:55,000 --> 01:15:00,440
Happy to see her back and happy to watch over the hatchlings while she was away.

1285
01:15:00,440 --> 01:15:01,440
Aww.

1286
01:15:01,440 --> 01:15:05,280
I was like, this motherfucker get off your ass.

1287
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:06,280
That makes sense, yeah.

1288
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:08,280
It's still the wholesome vibe.

1289
01:15:08,280 --> 01:15:09,280
Yeah.

1290
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:16,000
She knew one day her chicks would fly off, migrate on their own paths, perhaps find their

1291
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:18,440
own mates and nests.

1292
01:15:18,440 --> 01:15:21,160
But that was for another season.

1293
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:25,320
For now, they were happy and safe, caring for each other.

1294
01:15:25,320 --> 01:15:30,560
At this moment that constant chirping was the most beautiful sound she could imagine.

1295
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:31,560
Aww.

1296
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:35,280
It made me sad.

1297
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:40,280
It did remind me though, like talking about the water in the rain, that the cups are water.

1298
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:44,120
And the water had a lot to do with this.

1299
01:15:44,120 --> 01:15:46,880
Yes, it definitely did.

1300
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:47,880
Yeah.

1301
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:48,880
Interesting.

1302
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:49,880
Ooh.

1303
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,520
I've gotten the chili willy as a couple of times.

1304
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:58,080
Oh, I was just thinking about how like it said that you know your children are going to

1305
01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:02,400
find a mate and move out on their own.

1306
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,440
What if that mate isn't the person that you think is right for your child?

1307
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:09,880
Like it just reminded me of that too.

1308
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:10,880
Yeah.

1309
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,520
Like everything's perfect and nice until it's not.

1310
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:15,520
Yeah.

1311
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:18,800
Yeah, that's sort of where my head went to as well.

1312
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:22,400
And ultimately he kind of went off on his own.

1313
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:31,480
And I mean the thing about it is that part of me does wonder because you know his parents

1314
01:16:31,480 --> 01:16:38,800
and you know his siblings were long dead by the time that he married.

1315
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:45,760
So you know it's possible that he still just felt like that was necessary to do, to be

1316
01:16:45,760 --> 01:16:53,680
able to live and you know somewhat like assemblies of a normal life in society.

1317
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:59,600
But I feel like you know if he had cut all of those ties whether by his own hand or just

1318
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:05,840
by you know that is what was determined you know by fate.

1319
01:17:05,840 --> 01:17:13,600
I can't help but wonder you know why would he have gone through with you know sort of

1320
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,040
it.

1321
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:20,800
I think what most of us would refer to is kind of a sham marriage if that was the case.

1322
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:25,680
But or maybe he was just like a bisexual and was like yeah I like do that.

1323
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:31,480
But I also ended up falling in love with a woman and completely like have a normal not I

1324
01:17:31,480 --> 01:17:35,840
don't want to say normal but I have like a loving marriage is what I do by normal.

1325
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:40,280
Yeah but like a happy and healthy well-adjusted relationship.

1326
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:41,280
Yeah.

1327
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:49,360
You know I steer heavily on this one and I think there are certain things that they feel

1328
01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:54,720
more likely than you know some of the other theories that I've heard.

1329
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,720
There are a number in this case.

1330
01:17:58,720 --> 01:18:08,560
But I don't think there's any I don't think there's any one theory that feels like it kind of

1331
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,120
totally fits like yeah.

1332
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:21,920
Did they get driven off the edge of a cliff by Xconvex and if so was that just because those

1333
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:29,040
people were in the wrong place at the wrong time you know was that sort of a hit man squad

1334
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:30,560
that was hired by Donald.

1335
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:32,400
I mean I don't know.

1336
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:37,600
Did you know the gun for someone else like if someone else out there like another unsolved

1337
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:39,920
murder that they don't know even know about.

1338
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:43,040
I know that was kind of something that came across.

1339
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:49,760
Yeah like there are so many questions so many questions.

1340
01:18:49,760 --> 01:18:53,200
Did they DNA test the blood on the gun and like save it?

1341
01:18:53,200 --> 01:18:55,280
Cassie.

1342
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,440
Did they did not have DNA testing back then?

1343
01:18:57,440 --> 01:18:58,240
No.

1344
01:18:58,240 --> 01:18:59,440
I don't know the time.

1345
01:18:59,440 --> 01:18:59,920
No.

1346
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:01,280
And it was already cleaned.

1347
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,240
In 1959 they did not have DNA testing.

1348
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:05,760
I don't know when that came about.

1349
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:07,280
I really don't.

1350
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:13,440
Like in our lifetime like when we were like actual living breathing people.

1351
01:19:13,440 --> 01:19:14,720
Like the 90s?

1352
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:16,240
Yes.

1353
01:19:16,240 --> 01:19:20,880
It was in its infancy in the 90s so it wasn't good.

1354
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:25,360
You know the times where I'm like were cars invented yet?

1355
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,080
I have a really hard time with the time line.

1356
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:34,160
Well and we've I mean we've kind of covered like through this because I mean the parents were

1357
01:19:34,160 --> 01:19:37,120
born early in the 1900s.

1358
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:39,520
You know we've been talking about kind of the 50s.

1359
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:47,120
This really it covers multiple decades because by the time by the time they figured out

1360
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,840
that like holy shit the sisters remains were never claimed.

1361
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:54,640
That's like almost 1970.

1362
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:55,760
Wow.

1363
01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:02,560
So I mean details of this case span multiple multiple decades.

1364
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:08,880
And the article that I was kind of intrigued by just it's interesting to hear a little bit

1365
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:10,040
more.

1366
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:12,880
It's actually dated to 2009.

1367
01:20:12,880 --> 01:20:13,880
Wow.

1368
01:20:13,880 --> 01:20:14,880
Yeah.

1369
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:15,880
So.

1370
01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:18,880
I mean that's like old.

1371
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:23,040
It sounds like it's not that old but it is.

1372
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:24,040
Yeah.

1373
01:20:24,040 --> 01:20:28,040
That's you know roughly 15 years.

1374
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:29,040
Yeah.

1375
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,360
It's like if I can quickly do math in my head it's like 15.

1376
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:34,360
Yeah.

1377
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:35,360
Yeah.

1378
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:36,360
I know it's wild.

1379
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:37,360
We're coming on 2025.

1380
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,360
And we're coming on 2025.

1381
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:43,240
Come actually when this is out it's New Year's Eve.

1382
01:20:43,240 --> 01:20:46,480
I think we decided we're going to put this out on New Year's Eve.

1383
01:20:46,480 --> 01:20:47,480
Yeah.

1384
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:48,480
Oh my gosh.

1385
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:49,480
Happy 2025.

1386
01:20:49,480 --> 01:20:50,480
Oh.

1387
01:20:50,480 --> 01:20:57,720
We're going to have a good year.

1388
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,120
I really hope so.

1389
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:04,400
Because 2024 didn't turn out the way any of us wanted it while some of us wanted it but

1390
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:05,400
not enough.

1391
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:09,440
Not enough of us wanted the different outcome apparently.

1392
01:21:09,440 --> 01:21:13,080
It's really strange how that worked out.

1393
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:15,640
So we're just going to move on 2025.

1394
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:17,800
You know what we're going to focus on us this year.

1395
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:19,280
Fuck everyone else.

1396
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,240
Except for the creepy people.

1397
01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,040
It's us and the creepy people this year.

1398
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:25,040
Yeah.

1399
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,040
Oh my gosh.

1400
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:29,040
Okay.

1401
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:30,400
Should we do our outro thingy?

1402
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:31,400
Yeah.

1403
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:32,400
Let's do it.

1404
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:33,400
Okay.

1405
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,400
Have a creepy year.

1406
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,400
Have a creepy year.

1407
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:38,880
Have a creepy year.

1408
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:39,880
See you next year.

1409
01:21:39,880 --> 01:21:40,880
See you next year.

1410
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:41,880
See you next year.

1411
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:42,880
Oh my god.

1412
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:43,880
Don't have a 2025.

1413
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:51,280
That's as creepy as 2024 though.

1414
01:21:51,280 --> 01:21:54,320
I have a feeling it's all like going to get creepier.

1415
01:21:54,320 --> 01:21:56,320
Well, we're here.

1416
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,040
And not in that good way.

1417
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:00,040
We're here for you.

1418
01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:02,120
We're here for us.

1419
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:03,120
You're here for us.

1420
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,120
We're here for you.

1421
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:05,120
How about us?

1422
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:06,120
We can do this.

1423
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:07,120
You guys.

1424
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:08,960
We totally get.

1425
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:16,160
Put a pin in that.

1426
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,760
You know, it'll be important later.

1427
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,360
Actually, it's literally important right now.

1428
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:22,360
I'm just going to say the whole thing again.

1429
01:22:22,360 --> 01:22:23,360
Okay.

1430
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:24,360
Yeah.

1431
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:26,920
Just leave the pin alone.

1432
01:22:26,920 --> 01:22:27,920
No pins.

1433
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:29,200
No sharp objects.

1434
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:30,700
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