July 30, 2026

Two Girls, Two Parks, Two Killers: Michella Welch & Jennifer Bastian | Tacoma, Washington

Two Girls, Two Parks, Two Killers: Michella Welch & Jennifer Bastian | Tacoma, Washington
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In 1986 the North and West End neighborhoods of Tacoma trusted their parks. That was, until two girls disappeared from public parks in Tacoma, Washington within a few miles and a few months of each other, both stories ending in tragedy. Twelve-year-old Michella Welch disappeared from Puget Park on a bright Wednesday afternoon in March. Thirteen-year-old Jennifer Bastian vanished from Point Defiance Park while riding her brand-new Schwinn bike that same year in August.

For nearly three decades, investigators believed the girls had been killed by the same man. The circumstances were too similar to imagine otherwise. As Jennifer's mother Pattie put it, there couldn't possibly be two monsters in Tacoma. And yet – there were. In this episode we walk through what happened to Michella and Jenni, the assumption that shaped multiple decades of the investigation, the evidence that finally broke that assumption apart, and the two very different paths that led to justice.

Their cases also led to Jennifer & Michella's Law – the 2019 Washington legislation that expanded mandatory DNA collection for convicted felons and now stands as a legislative legacy for both girls. Michella Welch and Jennifer Bastian were just little girls who should have had the chance to grow up. Both were blonde, blue-eyed girls on their bikes, doing exactly what kids had always been trusted to do – enjoying their local park. If the story moves you, we'd love it if you shared the episode - it helps the show, and most importantly these two girls deserve to be remembered by name.

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The belief that the North End was insulated from major

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violent crime evaporated seemingly overnight. Parents stopped letting children play outside, unattended,

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neighborhood watch program surged, and a pervasive sense of fear

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gripped the community for decades.

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And that's a pretty hard turn.

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You go from basically being able to ride your bike

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to a park, you know, a mile or two away

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to not being able to like leave your house unsupervised,

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particularly after Tacoma had been honored with the All American

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City Award by the National Civic League in nineteen eighty four.

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So are you just gonna like do the intro with

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me and just see if anybody notices or I don't know,

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should we introduce you and nounce you something more official

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or do you think they'll even notice.

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Nobody cares about me. I don't think they're going to care.

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But don't you think they're going to realize that you're

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not Cassie?

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Like halfway through the episode? I think they might.

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Wait a minute, wait a second.

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This is PNW Hants and Homicides, where we chat about

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true crime, the parent normal, and all things spooky in

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the Pacific Northwest And what is occasionally become accustomed. Now

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is a little bit of like puppy ASMR. Depending on

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Charlotte's mood, we do a little bit of that, and

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then we also do a Tarot reading at the end

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of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight

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into our topic. Yes, yes, and I'm really excited because

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I have a brand new tarot deck, so maybe we'll

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use that today.

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Oh yeah, I see it. Say it.

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Okay, I saw it before and I see it again.

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Yeah, you're like, she's always showing me her Shenanigans, love Shenanigans.

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In case you.

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Noticed already, and not halfway through the episode. I'm Caitlin,

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but that is not Cassie.

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Oh hi, oh hi.

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Yeah, very convincing though you're doing You're really you're nailing

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it so far.

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Great. This is my husband, Chris.

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Hello, it's been a little while since you've done an

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episode with me.

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Yeah. It's always wonderful yet worrisome. Yeah, because it's great

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to be here. But I have no idea what I'm doing. Yeah,

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but I'm just gonna fake it till I make it.

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That's perfect. It's a strong strategy.

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Honestly, it's worked for me, all right. Well, hopefully when

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you say you enjoy being here, you mean that the

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content isn't, uh like the worst part.

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Of your day. That's the worrisome part, the worries some part.

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Okay, yeah, I mean that's fair enough. You kind of

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know what you're getting into. But on the other hand,

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you really have no idea what you're getting into.

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It's always still so shocking, it is. I'm still surprised

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at how awful people can be.

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You've got stunned Pikachu face over there, how spooky shit

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can be. All right, well, I will get into it.

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We'll get started.

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Tacoma in nineteen eighty six was a working class city

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in transition. It still bore in part the industrial identity

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that had defined it for generations, still carrying the faint,

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sulfurous smell of Poulp mills that gave rise to its nickname,

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the Tacoma Aroma.

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Oh I love Ryman. I know, I know you'd like.

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That alliteration in rymen.

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That's all I need. It's the best.

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But it was also beginning to reach towards something different.

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The North End neighborhood where Michelle Welch lived was a quieter,

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middle class pocket of the city. It had tree lined streets,

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modest homes, and then there was Puget Park. It was

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a heavily wooded ravine park that families used freely and

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children roamed without adult supervision.

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Because it was the eighties, What a wonderful time. I mean,

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I couldn't say.

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Come home when street lights come.

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On, right, Yeah.

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I feel like there were a couple of different people

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that really commented on how that's sort of the trope

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of growing up in the eighties, and they were like,

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it really was true. It was the kind of park

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where kids disappeared into the trees for hours and parents

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didn't worry until they had reason to. Michelle's mother, Barbara Leonard,

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was a single mom to three girls, Nicole nine, Angela eleven,

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and Michelle twelve. According to her family and friends, Michelle

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was confident and energetic, and she loved riding her bike.

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She was also a very kind and responsible older sister

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that loved to read and played both the piano and

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the violin. Wow, pretty well rounded kid. On the afternoon

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of Wednesday, March twenty sixth, nineteen eighty six, Michelle and

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her sisters rode their bikes to nearby Puget Park. They

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had the day off from school at least it was

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the week of spring break, and the girls had an

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afternoon piano lesson Because they all took piano lessons. Their

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mother happy that as a single mother, that not only

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was she able to provide a nice home for them

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in this neighborhood, but also like this type of little extra,

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which three kids and piano lessons, that doesn't.

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Feel so little, like well done mom, I know, good

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for her. Oh the eighties.

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I can't even imagine trying to raise three kids on

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a single I can barely raise myself on a single income.

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It's well documented, just a different time.

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Pugett Park is a steep, heavily wooded ravine popular for jogging.

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The wild urban green space is populated with numerous native

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plants with dense tree cover. But it was very familiar

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territory Michelle had visited countless times. It was roughly two

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miles from their house from what I was hearing.

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Not that far back then.

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No, No, especially on a bike too. I feel like

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that goes pretty quick. Yeah, and you're twelve, so you

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have boundless energy, no responsibilities really to speak of, of course,

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sounds like a dream. It was around eleven eleven thirty

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when the girls realized that they had forgotten their lunches.

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Whoops, whoopsies.

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So Michelle, of course, you know, being the good big sister,

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she rode home to fetch their sandwiches. While she was gone,

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her sisters them were like, shoot, we need to use

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the restroom.

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Of course they did.

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Yeah, it's three little girls, somebody is going to have

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to pee. It's just a statistical inevitability. And back then

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this park didn't really have like public restrooms, so they

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went to a nearby business.

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To use their facilities.

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While they were there, they used the phone to call

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their homes landline, but no one answered. They made an

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additional call to a babysitter, though at the time Michelle

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and her sisters were not actually under that babysitter's care.

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But I think they were starting to get a little

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bit concerned, just because enough time had passed that.

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They were like, well, she should probably be back.

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So they assumed that Michelle was already on her way

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back to the park. They thought, you know, maybe she's

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already back at the park, and so they decided they

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would just return as well. So they arrived back at

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the park around one pm, So, I mean that is

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a pretty good chunk of time considering how close they lived.

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By two pm, there was still no sign of Michelle,

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though the sisters had found her bike, as well as

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the sandwiches that she had laid out on a picnic table.

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That's not a good sign. It's not a good sign.

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No. Her sudden disappearance was reported to law enforcement. Officers

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arrived at the park by three ten pm. So, I

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mean it's a surprising turn of events because I feel

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like so many, especially back in the eighties, people would

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just be told, your kid just ran away.

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They'll come home.

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Yeah, they'll be back tomorrow.

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Yeah, maybe when they feel like it.

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Officers arrived at the park by three ten pm and

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conducted a preliminary search of the area. Though the investigation

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was quickly initiated, the park's dense vegetation, the public nature

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of the space, and the limitations of nineteen eighty six

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forensic science created many obstacles that they likely didn't anticipate would.

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Literally take decades to overcome. Oh my spoilers, that was yeah, yeah,

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I was like, drop that little nugget in there.

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Michelle's body was discovered several hours later in an isolated

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fire pit area near a playground.

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At the park.

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So that is sick.

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It's a lot of yikes for so many reasons, because

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obviously nothing good has happened to her.

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But also I think.

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About what it would do to a kid if they

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were the one that stumbled on her body. It's like

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nightmare fuel that you're never getting out of your head.

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A later probable.

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Cause affidavit states she was found on her back. Her

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top hadn't been completely moved, but it was raised, while

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the bottom half of her body was nude. Her pants

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and underwear left near her right ankle.

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Gross. Yeah, I know. It was like shit, Maybe I

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should have prepped you a little bit for this one.

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I was like nicky.

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Her March twenty seventh autopsy revealed a three inch depressed

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skull fracture on the right side, as well as a

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seven inch laceration to her neck. Michelle's cause of death

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was blunt force trauma to the head owing to the fracture.

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A rape kit was collected and semen was present on

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one of the swabs.

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So I hate that, yeah, but also not something to

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work with.

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Yeah, I mean, I know, it's kind of one of

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those situations where you're like, I'm trying to find a

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silver lining in a pile of shit, and yeah, yeah,

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thinking that way in a sense does kind of make

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you feel like a literal devil's advocate. Two men were

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seen in the park that day. I'm sure, actually, you know,

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maybe a lot of men, but these two particular men

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were ones that witnesses basically described seeing or like interacting with.

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One spotted under the bridge by a classmate of Michelle's,

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was described as a white male in his mid twenties.

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The other seen talking to Michelle was described as possibly

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Hispanic and somewhat older. Neither was ever publicly identified. Physical

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evidence was collected and preserved, but the technology to analyze

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most of it meaningfully just didn't exist yet. I think

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we all kind of inherently understand that with a case

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that's sold. Just a few months later, on August fourth,

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nineteen eighty six, thirteen year old Jennifer Bastian went for

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a bike ride at Point Defiance Park in Tacoma.

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So these parks are like very close by to each other.

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What the fuck there's more?

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Yeah, I know, he's like, what that's I feel like

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that's fair enough.

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I feel like that's probably what the people of Tacaba

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were saying, you know. Yeah, it was about two thirty

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when Jenny headed off on her now Shwin bike. She

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was training for the upcoming San Juan Island's bike tour,

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so that was something she commonly did.

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She rode at this park frequently. She biked a lot.

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She had left a note behind at home that she

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would return by six thirty PM. Some of the reporting

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that I came across said that she had talked to

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her dad and he said, sure, you know, go ahead,

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you can go to the park, but you need to

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be home by six thirty, and so the note confirmed

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that she was like, Okay, I'm going to do what

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I'm supposed to. However, when she hadn't returned home by

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eight point thirty, she was reported missing. Point Defiance is

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significantly larger than Puget Park, with both inner and outer

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loops of five mile drive. The inner loop provides vehicle

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access to the park's attractions because like there's literally an aquarium,

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there's all of these other aspects of the park aside

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from just like biking, hiking. Back in nineteen eighty six,

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the outer loop was also open to vehicle traffic, but

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following an erosion assessment in twenty twenty two, only non motorized.

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Vehicle access is allowed.

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Based on witness statements, Jenny was riding the outer loop.

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Sightings of her in or near the park were reported

229
00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:03.960
up until six pm, so should have given her, I

230
00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.600
would think, enough time to ride home. She was probably

231
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:13.120
getting ready to leave soon, I imagine By five thirty am

232
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on August fifth, the following day, the police and bloodhounds

233
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:21.320
had searched the entire outer loop of five mile Drive

234
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:26.039
with no sign of Jenny. The exhaustive search efforts at

235
00:14:26.080 --> 00:14:31.000
the park continued weeks went by. On August twenty sixth,

236
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:36.120
nineteen eighty six, around eight pm, a YMC jogger informed

237
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:40.000
police they had encountered an odor along.

238
00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:40.519
Their path.

239
00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:46.000
And given that this is the second disappearance in a

240
00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:47.559
handful of months.

241
00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:50.519
It's not fresh cut flowers.

242
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:56.480
It's certainly not correct. When police searched the area roughly

243
00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:00.360
an hour later, they found nothing. Two days long later,

244
00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:05.559
around two pm, search dogs discovered the body of Jennifer

245
00:15:05.600 --> 00:15:09.879
Bastian hidden in an area with dense brush, her bike

246
00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:14.480
nearby also obstructed by the landscape. It was camouflaged by

247
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:19.440
fern Franz, which is probably one of my favorite things

248
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:24.720
to say now Franz. Yeah, not because of this, just

249
00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:32.000
because it's fun to say. Yep, it feels good. Though

250
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:36.240
her manner of death strangulation was different from Michelle, she

251
00:15:36.399 --> 00:15:41.120
too had been sexually assaulted. The Tacoma Police Department worked

252
00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:45.600
alongside detectives from the Green River Task Force to process

253
00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:50.039
the crime scene. Patty, her mother, who had been struggling

254
00:15:50.120 --> 00:15:54.279
in the week since Jenny's disappearance, was trying desperately to

255
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:59.919
channel her energy and anxiety into something, keeping herself busy

256
00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:05.480
literally however she could. She had been visited by Michelle's mother, Barbara,

257
00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:11.039
as search efforts were being undertaken for Jenny. So really

258
00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.840
sweet because the mother of, you know, one of these girls,

259
00:16:14.879 --> 00:16:17.720
the first to go missing. Michelle goes to her and

260
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:19.159
is like, I know what you're going through.

261
00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:21.759
Yeah, I just went through this. Yeah.

262
00:16:21.840 --> 00:16:24.799
She said it just seemed like the thing to do,

263
00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:29.519
which like, honestly kind of made me sob harder than

264
00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.240
almost anything, because I was like, it's just such a

265
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:37.639
rare kind thing for someone to do, and I feel like,

266
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:43.720
unfortunately some of these really awful experiences can bring out

267
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.200
this just incredible kindness in people, And I feel like

268
00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.320
it's just like a little tidbit that feels like so

269
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.960
significant about this whole huge story that we're gonna unravel. Obviously,

270
00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.159
but Barbara might have been one of the only people

271
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:05.240
reaching out to support Patty that could truly understand what

272
00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:06.279
she was going through.

273
00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:08.319
After all, when.

274
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:12.119
Barbara had left the Bastion home, Patty kind of like

275
00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.480
almost chuckled to herself. She told her friend that was

276
00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.119
there at the house with her. I'm not sure why

277
00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:22.200
she came. Jennifer's not dead.

278
00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:28.880
Oh, holding on, that's yeah.

279
00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.559
She felt for the woman who had so recently lost

280
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:36.119
her own daughter, but was so clearly focused on her

281
00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:39.559
hope of a different outcome in Jenny's case, And it

282
00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:44.519
makes sense. She was painting in the dining room of

283
00:17:44.559 --> 00:17:47.480
their family home when a detective showed up at her

284
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:51.759
home with the news, and I thought, I feel like

285
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:55.319
so many people must think that's such a weird thing

286
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:58.440
to do, But I feel like painting is kind of

287
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.279
one of those things where you can sort of do

288
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:06.079
it absent mindedly, you're keeping yourself occupied. Like I feel

289
00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.640
like it's such a healthier coping mechanism to do something

290
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:14.440
like that. Yeah, I mean, I didn't think it was

291
00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:15.240
that weird.

292
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.359
Why do other people think that was weird?

293
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.799
I'm sure a lot of people do. On the surface,

294
00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:22.039
it seems kind of odd.

295
00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.119
Yeah, you're you're weird.

296
00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.920
The proximity in time, the city, and the circumstances led

297
00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:35.920
investigators to assume that a single serial killer potentially was

298
00:18:36.039 --> 00:18:41.480
responsible for both crimes. That assumption shaped the investigation for

299
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.920
thirty years.

300
00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:43.839
Wow.

301
00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:50.359
And the proximity alone and the similarities between the two

302
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:56.400
girls specifically, it's not hard to understand how that was

303
00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:00.359
the case, right, Yeah, I mean sort of researching, I

304
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.039
was like, but kind of the mo is so different

305
00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:08.519
because they died in such vastly different ways strangulation versus

306
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:14.200
like a head injury and you know, laceration really different,

307
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.240
both very like personal I feel like, but I don't

308
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.720
think you see a lot of killers that switch it

309
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:21.759
up on their method.

310
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:23.160
It depends.

311
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.839
It's all debatable, right, and every case is different, and

312
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.240
so I just felt like, God, you know, they did

313
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.519
a lot right, and they just had a lot stacked

314
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:38.759
against them. Unfortunately, tips were pursued, suspects were examined, and

315
00:19:38.839 --> 00:19:43.640
the cases were reviewed multiple times, always linked as a pair.

316
00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:50.079
Really though the assumption seemed logical. As Patty Jennifer's mother

317
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:54.000
put it, there couldn't be two monsters in Tacoma.

318
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.680
I disagree. But and.

319
00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:01.480
These horrific crimes in ninety teen eighty six may not

320
00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:06.519
have changed the neighborhood's long term socioeconomic status or I mean,

321
00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:11.640
this neighborhood is really like it's a cool, like architectural

322
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:16.640
wise neighborhood. So it didn't change that piece of what

323
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:21.160
appealed about the neighborhood, but it completely altered the lifestyle

324
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:24.240
and the psychology of the residents. And it's something that

325
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.759
I heard so many people that were connected with each

326
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:32.759
of these cases talk about, like how their mentality completely shifted.

327
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:34.319
Well, yeah, it would have to.

328
00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:39.319
The belief that the North End was insulated from major

329
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:45.599
violent crime evaporated seemingly overnight. Parents stopped letting children play outside,

330
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:50.759
unattended neighborhood watch program surged, and a pervasive sense of

331
00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.200
fear gripped the community for decades.

332
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.480
And that's a pretty hard turn.

333
00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:59.759
You go from basically being able to ride your bike

334
00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.680
to park, you know, a mile or two away to

335
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.640
not being able to leave your house unsupervised.

336
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.359
It's understandable.

337
00:21:09.400 --> 00:21:13.079
It's a hard turn, though, particularly after Tacoma had been

338
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.839
honored with the All American City Award by the National

339
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:22.359
Civic League in nineteen eighty four. The organization and accompanying

340
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:27.519
award recognized communities that leverage civic engagement as well as

341
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:34.119
inclusiveness and innovation to successfully address local issues. Tacoma, however,

342
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:38.880
began making national headlines as crime spiked in the area

343
00:21:40.039 --> 00:21:43.160
broadly speaking in the late eighties and early nineties. This

344
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.920
was actually happening all over the country, nineteen ninety one,

345
00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:51.839
marking the absolute peak of violent crime spiking in that era.

346
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:57.559
Nineteen ninety one is like gnarly, I remember it. I

347
00:21:57.640 --> 00:21:58.119
live through it.

348
00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.240
Sure you've You were just enough older than me that that,

349
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:06.039
like you would be able to actually remember that more.

350
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:08.920
You were pretty young though. Still.

351
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:13.599
Yeah, but I mean kids remember seeing stuff in the

352
00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:17.119
news and things like that. Sometimes I I do not,

353
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:18.319
because I was.

354
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:23.319
I remember, okay, I was outside, all right, Yeah, that's right, rid,

355
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:29.880
But yeah, well, no, I know it happens.

356
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.759
Though it was hardly the most accurate picture of the

357
00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:37.680
city in the hearts and minds of many Americans. Tacoma

358
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:41.000
was established as one of the most dangerous places in

359
00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.359
the country. And when you look at it, it makes

360
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.759
sense because in terms of just homicide alone or like

361
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:54.440
even more broadly violent crime as a whole, it spiked,

362
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:58.319
Like the homicide rate was almost double the national average

363
00:22:58.799 --> 00:23:02.640
for a lot of that pure in Tacoma, But it

364
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:07.160
was nowhere near some of the actual most dangerous cities

365
00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:10.599
in that era, which would have been Washington, d C.

366
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:14.680
New Orleans, and Detroit. Nowhere near I.

367
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:18.039
Mean to this day. Yeah, yeah, that was in the water.

368
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.119
They're hard to beat.

369
00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.880
Both cases remained unsolved through the late eighties and into

370
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:29.480
the nineties. They were reviewed periodically by Tacoma police, but

371
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.960
without the forensic tools needed to move forward, there was

372
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:37.440
little progress. The preserved physical evidence from nineteen eighty six

373
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.880
satin storage waiting for science to catch up. Over the years,

374
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:48.000
investigators vetted thousands of potential suspects across both cases. In

375
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:51.519
one of the cases, I know that they reviewed over

376
00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:53.440
two thousand suspects.

377
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:55.680
Wow, which is pretty crazy.

378
00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:58.720
And I'm sure that you know some of those people

379
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:02.799
are maybe getting more of a cursory review, but I

380
00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:05.920
mean to think about the time that that takes, takes

381
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.920
a little bit, a little bit. Still, none could be

382
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:13.559
conclusively tied to either crime, let alone both. The linked

383
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:17.440
case theory meant resources were directed at finding a single

384
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:22.119
person who could account for both murders. In retrospect, that

385
00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:25.599
framing of the investigation may have narrowed the search in

386
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:31.319
counterproductive ways. That's the benefit of hindsight. Though by twenty thirteen,

387
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:36.279
investigators finally had a lever. Previous testing had failed to

388
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:38.039
recover a usable.

389
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:39.319
Male DNA profile.

390
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:44.880
However, the swimsuit she had been wearing was preserved.

391
00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:47.559
That's why we hold the evidence good on them.

392
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:52.119
Yeah, that's why it's so maddening in some cases, which

393
00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.640
I think like West Memphis that case, they're like, oh,

394
00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:03.039
oh no, we don't have the evidence anymore, and we're like, listen, they.

395
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:04.519
Don't think it's important at the time.

396
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:09.519
Well they should have, because especially in that case where

397
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:13.680
there's already a lot of you know, sort of insinuation

398
00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:16.960
about the authorities actually being involved in some sort of

399
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:17.559
a cover up.

400
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:20.400
Well, actually I know a lot about that case, and

401
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.960
here are my thoughts on it.

402
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.599
I was so excited. Very briefly, I'm.

403
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.000
Oh, I could have bullshited my way through it real good.

404
00:25:31.240 --> 00:25:34.680
Oh yeah, no, I couldn't you know too much about it?

405
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:36.400
I do. What are you talking about.

406
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:38.680
It's been a while since I've looked at it, and

407
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:42.240
I've obviously not like researched and written it up because

408
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:47.400
uh but yeah, I think I would have caught on eventually,

409
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:51.079
but I should have known from the jump, so who knows.

410
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.400
Although the swimsuit had been examined years earlier, due to

411
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:59.960
advances in DNA technology and the urging of an out

412
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:05.200
side panel of experts, detectives had it retested this time.

413
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:09.119
They got a male DNA profile that could be used.

414
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:11.519
They also recovered hair.

415
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:17.720
His hair presumably fuck yeah. When they compared it against

416
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.559
the profile from Michelle's case, the samples didn't match. The

417
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:28.039
results were unambiguous on one critical point. The DNA from

418
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.119
the Welsh crime scene and the DNA from the Bastion

419
00:26:31.640 --> 00:26:37.039
crime scene did not come from the same person. Okay,

420
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.960
after nearly three decades of chasing a single predator, they

421
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:41.839
were looking for two.

422
00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:48.960
I think this is literally an investigator's worst nightmare. Yeah.

423
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.039
I feel actually really bad for them because it does

424
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:55.839
seem like a lot of effort went into these cases

425
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:59.079
and to just find out, like, holy shit, your theory's

426
00:26:59.119 --> 00:26:59.920
blown out of the water.

427
00:27:01.160 --> 00:27:01.799
Yikes.

428
00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:07.519
Yeah, nearly thirty years of linked case theory collapsed. Two

429
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:13.079
separate killers, two separate investigations, which is pretty wild. Given again,

430
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:16.759
the proximity. It just it blows my mind, It really does,

431
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:20.079
because the similarities are so similar.

432
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.759
Rape and murder from the same town.

433
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:28.359
Yeah, I mean just so close together, and both blonde haired,

434
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:33.920
blue eyed little girls riding bikes in a park. I

435
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:38.920
get it, they're you know, little girls, and so there

436
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.680
are bound to be some striking similarities. You know, probably

437
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.759
a lot of cases. But it just I can't get

438
00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:47.799
over it. He's unimpressed.

439
00:27:49.240 --> 00:27:53.839
Just yeah, like, okay, there's a couple, yeah, similar things.

440
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:56.119
But it wouldn't be enough for me to be like, oh,

441
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.200
the same person, we have a serial.

442
00:27:57.920 --> 00:27:58.839
Killer on our hands.

443
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:06.400
No, for sure, I means, wow, we're outlawing bikes.

444
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:07.359
Now.

445
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.519
I mean the fact that it was less than six

446
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:10.720
months between the two.

447
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:14.799
I think that's a big part of it. And obviously we.

448
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:20.200
Understand that something happens when like the fear is activated

449
00:28:20.279 --> 00:28:23.400
in your brain, you know, it changes the way that

450
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.359
people think the Tacoma Police Department partnered with Parabond Nanolabs,

451
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:36.039
and Detective Lindsay Wade engaged genetic genealogist Barbara ray Venter,

452
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:40.759
the very same researcher whose work would soon identify the

453
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:41.880
Golden State killer.

454
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:46.119
That Barbara yeah R WHOA.

455
00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.960
She applied investigative genetic genealogy to the Welch case and

456
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:57.759
uploaded the killer's profile to family tree, DNA and jedmatch,

457
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:03.200
a public genealogy data. From there, she began building family

458
00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:08.559
trees from partial DNA matches, working outward from distant relatives

459
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:14.000
to narrow the field of possible suspects. It's really interesting.

460
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:19.319
They surfaced two second cousins, one in Washington, and built

461
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:23.079
the tree out to third and fourth cousins and pointed

462
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:24.839
police eventually.

463
00:29:24.359 --> 00:29:28.319
At two brothers. The Bastion case took a different path.

464
00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:33.160
Robert Washburn had called Tacoma police in May of nineteen

465
00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.759
eighty six, before Jenny was even killed, claiming to have

466
00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:41.680
seen a suspect matching a sketch developed in the Welch

467
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:44.759
case while jogging in Point Defiance Park.

468
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:46.400
So he says, I saw that guy.

469
00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:50.039
His name sat in the case file for thirty years

470
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.599
after DNA proved the Welch and Bastion murders had been

471
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:59.599
committed by different men, Detective Lindsay Wade rebuilt Jennifer's suspect

472
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:03.880
list from the ground up. She talked about it at length,

473
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:09.200
literally thousands of people while reviewing decades of reports.

474
00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:12.079
One name caught her attention. Washburn.

475
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:16.920
He had inserted himself into the investigation in nineteen eighty six,

476
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.240
and his surname stood out among the names detectives had

477
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:26.200
never fully eliminated. In twenty sixteen, Wade added him to

478
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:29.200
a new list of high priority suspects.

479
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.839
For DNA elimination.

480
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:35.880
Now, I watched I believe it was Dateline about these

481
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:40.319
two cases, and she said that they had I don't

482
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:43.519
remember the exact number, but I over one hundred and

483
00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:46.960
sixty DNA profiles that they were going to try to

484
00:30:47.039 --> 00:30:48.319
process for elimination.

485
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:49.400
Yuck.

486
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:54.039
I mean, the gathering of all of that and just

487
00:30:54.359 --> 00:30:56.960
the possibility that you're, like, we've narrowed it down and

488
00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.680
it's still one hundred and sixty people that were just like,

489
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.160
you know, taking shots in the dark. The following year,

490
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:09.079
investigators contacted Washburn in Illinois because he had moved where

491
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:12.000
he voluntarily provided a DNA swab.

492
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:13.119
Idiot.

493
00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:18.079
I know he implicated himself in the first place by

494
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:22.240
reporting this tip to the police, and then he gives

495
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:23.279
over his DNA.

496
00:31:24.079 --> 00:31:25.680
I don't know what he was thinking.

497
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:30.440
Instead of eliminating him the sample match the male DNA

498
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:36.440
recovered from Jenny's swimsuit. Maybe he just fully had a

499
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:40.359
complete lack of understanding about how DNA works.

500
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:40.920
I don't know.

501
00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:46.319
The genetic genealogy work on Michelle's case eventually narrowed to

502
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:52.720
a family in Tacoma's North End. Investigators identified Gary Hartman,

503
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.200
a sixty six year old nurse at Western State Hospital,

504
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:59.839
as a person of interest. He was one of the

505
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:05.440
two brothers to confirm detectives needed a voluntary DNA sample

506
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:09.799
or a sneaky one, because they decided they couldn't really

507
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:14.839
ask him directly without tipping their hand, so both of

508
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.559
the brothers were surveilled basically so that they could collect

509
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:22.480
discarded DNA, which I think you know now this has

510
00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.599
become something of a common practice.

511
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:26.599
We all know.

512
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.160
You know some of the ways that it's been done

513
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:33.880
over time, or the ways that certain people like Coburger

514
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:38.640
have actually avoided potentially leaving DNA that could be recovered

515
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:43.079
in this way. After his brother was excluded, they focused

516
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:47.559
on Gary. On June fifth of twenty eighteen, detectives followed

517
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.799
him to a restaurant and retrieved a napkin he'd used

518
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.279
while dining with a coworker from the hospital. The DNA

519
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:58.480
from the napkin matched the DNA preserved from Michelle Welch's

520
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:04.519
nineteen eighty six murder scene. After arrest, a warrant reference

521
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:09.720
sample confirmed it at one in six quadrillion.

522
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.039
Damn.

523
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:16.480
Yeah, So we would literally have to gather six quadrillion

524
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:22.720
of our closest friends and in that sample, the statistical

525
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:26.920
likelihood that anybody else did this that like, that's what

526
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.880
that means, because I mean, we it's very fresh in

527
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.319
my memory still the case where it was one in

528
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:37.440
one hundred and thirty two. So like at a high school,

529
00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.440
there could be four people, you know, in a large

530
00:33:40.839 --> 00:33:44.079
class that would potentially match versus.

531
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:47.359
One in six quadrillion. I feel like I feel comfortable

532
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:48.559
with those kind of odds.

533
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:51.160
And that's just the DNA right then you couple on

534
00:33:51.200 --> 00:33:54.759
the fact that he lived in that area, Yeah, exactly,

535
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.000
already factor in that end.

536
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:02.559
I mean presumably, you know, if in this case it

537
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:05.319
doesn't sound like he ever came on to their radar,

538
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.760
like because geographically he was close, maybe eventually they would

539
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:14.679
have gotten there, maybe somebody would have come forward. I mean,

540
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.400
after all this time, it seems unlikely like if anybody

541
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.599
had seen him clearly, like that connection wasn't made. So

542
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:26.960
really like the genetic genealogy is how they came to

543
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:27.719
Gary Hartman.

544
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:29.840
We got him, We got him.

545
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:34.079
Gary Hartman was arrested during a traffic stop in Lakewood.

546
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.039
Gary Hartman had lived in Tacoma's North End in nineteen

547
00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:42.599
eighty six, the same neighborhood as Michelle Welch. His brother

548
00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:45.599
also lived in the North End at the time. He

549
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:49.519
was a nurse by profession, a detail that adds particular

550
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.480
weight to the violation of trust and just.

551
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.599
Yuck, what else did you do? Gary? Right?

552
00:34:56.400 --> 00:34:59.400
I know, it really makes you think there was no

553
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.000
prior criminal record that had flagged him. During the original investigation.

554
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:10.519
He was by essentially every outward measure and ordinary community member.

555
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:13.920
But I mean, no, he wasn't.

556
00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:19.280
Nope, people thought maybe he was, But people also thought

557
00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.800
that about you know, John Wayne Gacy and Dahmer so

558
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.440
Gary Hartman was charged with first degree murder and first

559
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:29.880
degree rape of a child.

560
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:31.480
He elected for.

561
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:34.599
A bench trial, meaning that it wouldn't be a jury

562
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:39.159
deciding his fate, rather a judge. During the trial, the

563
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.760
prosecution presented the genetic genealogy evidence and the Napkin DNA

564
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:48.039
match as the centerpiece of its case, because I mean

565
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:50.639
that kind of was their whole. I mean, I don't

566
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.239
know what else they presented, if they, you know, came

567
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:56.000
up with anything else, but I feel like that one

568
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:57.159
was kind of a slam dunk.

569
00:35:57.199 --> 00:35:59.679
They're like, I don't know that we really need anything else.

570
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.360
In under two hours, the judge convicted him on both

571
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:10.400
counts because didn't have to debate with anybody pretty quick.

572
00:36:11.079 --> 00:36:14.880
At sentencing, Hartman appeared in court using a walker and

573
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:18.880
addressed the court, apologizing for the horrific crime through sobs.

574
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:22.920
So he admitted to it, then, he yeah, he did.

575
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:27.760
He received a sentence of twenty six years and six months,

576
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.920
the maximum sentence available under the guidelines applicable to the

577
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:35.920
nineteen eighty six offense, which is super annoying because I mean,

578
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.800
he's old enough now that I don't think it'll matter

579
00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:41.800
he would be like, I want to say, ninety.

580
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:45.280
Six by the time he would be released.

581
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:49.440
In theory, which is essentially what I saw was that's

582
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.440
basically what the judge said. The judge was like, yeah,

583
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:58.920
he's he's gonna definitely die in prison. So bye, So

584
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:04.119
nice to not meet you. In twenty eighteen, Robert Washburn

585
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:09.800
was arrested in Eureka, Illinois. He was extradited to Washington State,

586
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.719
where his confession about the decades old crime finally put

587
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:18.280
long awaited closure in the case within reach. He was

588
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:22.199
charged with first degree murder and convicted in January of

589
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.159
twenty nineteen. He was sentenced to three hundred and twenty

590
00:37:26.199 --> 00:37:29.559
to three hundred and forty months in prison, roughly twenty

591
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.639
six and a half to twenty seven years, So they

592
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:36.159
got like almost identical sentences, which is really interesting, with

593
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:41.079
a minimum of twenty years before parole eligibility. I mean,

594
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:44.079
I guess if that was the maximum allowable based on

595
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:47.639
the date that the crime occurred. It makes sense because

596
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:51.559
they're both heinous and everybody said throw the book at him.

597
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:53.760
And how old might he be?

598
00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.719
I think Robert was maybe a little bit younger, but

599
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:04.119
Hartman was like said when he was arrested. So I mean,

600
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:08.360
they're both in all likelihood going to die behind bars,

601
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:11.119
and I've made my piece with it.

602
00:38:11.199 --> 00:38:14.360
Personally, I'm okay with it. Yeah, I feel good about it.

603
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:20.159
Actually, Washington State's response to these cases extended beyond conviction.

604
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:26.320
In twenty nineteen, Governor Jay Insley signed Jennifer M. Michelle's law,

605
00:38:26.920 --> 00:38:32.400
legislation that expanded mandatory DNA collection for convicted felons in

606
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:36.800
Washington State. Okay, the law directly addressed one of the

607
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:41.920
core systemic failures exposed by both cases that without expanded

608
00:38:42.039 --> 00:38:48.280
DNA databases, cold cases involving physical evidence can go unresolved

609
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.880
for decades, even when the answer is preserved at the

610
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.480
crime scene, because you got to have something to test

611
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.559
it against. The law stands as a tangible legislative legacy

612
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:04.119
for both girls, a systemic change that will affect the

613
00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:10.840
resolution of future cases for generations. There were some additional

614
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.599
legal proceedings, and I kind of looked at the documentation

615
00:39:14.760 --> 00:39:19.280
about it. In relation to Hartman. I found a document

616
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:24.280
it's State v. Hartman, and kind of in summary, it's

617
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:28.960
not just that he was convicted, but he actually tried

618
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:31.199
to fight against the fact that they.

619
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:34.760
He was like, you's no my DNA and.

620
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:38.519
They were like, I don't understand why you have to

621
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:40.840
be such a little bit about it.

622
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.639
You threw it away, bro. Yeah.

623
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:49.000
So the state fee Harman opinion, it's a precedent setting

624
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:53.800
published opinion on an issue kind of for the first

625
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:57.119
time in the state of Washington, and it gets at

626
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:00.920
essentially whether or not you have a p privacy interest

627
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:05.840
in DNA your relatives voluntarily upload to one of these

628
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:10.920
you know, public sites like Jetmatch, and the court said nah,

629
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:16.159
and separately that there's no privacy interest in DNA abandoned

630
00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:18.000
at a crime scene, which.

631
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:20.840
I think I'm not familiar with any.

632
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.360
Cases where they, you know, a court has said oh no, yeah,

633
00:40:24.760 --> 00:40:27.199
you're right, they shouldn't have taken your DNA.

634
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:33.440
That's your private information or whatever benefits far out in

635
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:37.440
the negatives, it absolutely does. Yeah. So the other thing

636
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:39.039
is Jetmatch.

637
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.239
From what I understand, I don't think that they used

638
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:47.760
to let law enforcement utilize their database.

639
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:49.079
Huh.

640
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.679
They flipped on that kind of around the time that

641
00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.519
these cases, you know, like we're getting the convictions and

642
00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:01.039
everything you do have to opt in. So like it

643
00:41:01.159 --> 00:41:05.159
kind of comes down to like individual opt in for

644
00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:10.039
like the person that's providing their sample, which maybe that's

645
00:41:10.599 --> 00:41:11.119
kind of a.

646
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:12.440
More fair compromise.

647
00:41:12.559 --> 00:41:16.519
It's like, then you're consenting because technically, you know, if

648
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:20.119
it's a family member, I guess you know, do you

649
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:25.480
want the right, the responsibility, the role of deciding, like, Hey,

650
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:28.960
if one of my relatives did this, do I want

651
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:32.119
my DNA to be able to like convict them?

652
00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:35.320
Welcome? Yeah, I think so too.

653
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:39.599
It's about one hundred and eighty five thousand of the

654
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:44.360
individual users out of about one point three million that

655
00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:49.079
have actually opted in. So it'd be super cool if

656
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:54.000
the remaining one million people ish would go and just

657
00:41:54.119 --> 00:41:54.840
opt in now.

658
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.679
But and then there's.

659
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:01.119
Still states that actually require warrants for it too. The

660
00:42:01.239 --> 00:42:03.920
legality of all of this stuff is very interesting to me.

661
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.679
I am curious to see kind of what happens moving forward,

662
00:42:07.719 --> 00:42:09.079
But we'll see.

663
00:42:09.199 --> 00:42:12.559
And then, do you remember I said that.

664
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:19.519
The park went to non motorized vehicle or pedestrian access only.

665
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:21.800
On the outer loop. I've been waiting to hear.

666
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:26.719
This, and I specifically cited that that changed when they

667
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.519
did the erosion report in twenty twenty two. Well, it

668
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:33.400
just seemed really I don't know. I couldn't decide if

669
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:37.039
this was poignant or like a dumb thing. But both

670
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.719
of these cases when unsolved for you know, multiple decades,

671
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:45.239
literally while a portion of the landscape where these crimes

672
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:50.119
occurred literally eroding into the Puget Sound. It's just like

673
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.840
all of these crazy monumental things that are happening on

674
00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:59.679
this planet, and sometimes they are happening like simultaneously in

675
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:00.840
the same place.

676
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:03.880
But I don't know, it just made me feel so small.

677
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:08.840
I once saw a video the size of Earth versus

678
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:11.840
the size of other things in the universe, and that

679
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:13.559
made me feel really small.

680
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:17.000
So I don't know.

681
00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:20.119
It just something about like kind of thinking about that

682
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:24.400
and how you know, it's like the physical landscape versus

683
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:32.679
thinking about how emotionally psychologically like these crimes changed like

684
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.840
the landscape of like these neighborhoods in those ways.

685
00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:37.199
And it was just, I don't.

686
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.599
Know, like the impact of all of the things that

687
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:44.840
just happened quietly sometimes on a daily basis around us.

688
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:48.719
It was just like whoa can be poetic, It can

689
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.800
be I don't know if that was, But I don't

690
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:52.199
know either.

691
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:55.679
I'm just trying to talk it out.

692
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:59.920
I like it. Should we do some taro about it?

693
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:03.639
Yeah, I would like to do that. I need some

694
00:44:03.639 --> 00:44:07.559
more insight into this. Why the fuck did this happen?

695
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:11.360
And why did it take so long to figure it out?

696
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:16.719
Tell us taro. Let me hear those wise words so

697
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:17.320
I can make.

698
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:22.840
Sense of this. I want to use the new tarot

699
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:24.000
so to give.

700
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:24.480
You a visual.

701
00:44:24.679 --> 00:44:26.239
Oh, it's a blue box.

702
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:31.000
It's called dog Tarot, and there is a dog on

703
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:36.159
a couch laying down while he or she probably she

704
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:38.639
is reading tarot.

705
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:39.320
Oh.

706
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:41.599
And you know what, if you'll notice there's a little

707
00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:44.559
bites out of some of the cards there.

708
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:53.039
Because you are correct taking a bit. That's so funny.

709
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:57.320
Oh and when you open it, the opening here looks

710
00:44:57.400 --> 00:45:00.400
like the roof of a doghouse does.

711
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:03.519
And you know what, like the little dog on the side. Yeah,

712
00:45:03.639 --> 00:45:05.480
you see that. It looks like he's poking out of.

713
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.039
It, poking out of the doghouse.

714
00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.400
It's very cute.

715
00:45:09.559 --> 00:45:12.400
I got this on and outing with Cassie and some

716
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:13.559
other friends.

717
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:19.199
So you will see photos on the socials. So check

718
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:22.320
it out the socials, like and subscribe, y'all.

719
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:22.920
Sorry.

720
00:45:26.159 --> 00:45:27.960
I went through the deck and I pulled out a

721
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.519
couple specifically to show off.

722
00:45:31.079 --> 00:45:33.920
Was there a little doxy? You know there was.

723
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.840
I'm going to start with this one because it's pretty cute.

724
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:40.679
It's the High Priestess. It's just a little bulldog wearing

725
00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:41.559
a witch's hat.

726
00:45:41.760 --> 00:45:44.360
Now did you did you pick this one out?

727
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:46.079
Or you just grabbed it from the bulk?

728
00:45:46.119 --> 00:45:49.679
These ones aside because I just thought they were particularly cute,

729
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:51.599
or they carry some significance.

730
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:55.639
Magician, you know this is my card? Cute?

731
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.480
There is a little white terrier. Yeah, and like an

732
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:04.239
autumn background maybe yeah, I love orange.

733
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.960
For a treat. Oh yeah, we all have to do that. Yeah.

734
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:14.000
And then this one is Cassie's card, the fool. Oh

735
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:16.960
that's cute. A little golden retriever. I want to go

736
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:18.679
for a while. I want to go for a while.

737
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.400
It's got a little leash in its mouth.

738
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.840
So cute. The Devil Wait.

739
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.599
A minute, Okay, I get it. I was like, that's

740
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.800
a cat. This is your dog, terre? What is this

741
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:31.039
the devil?

742
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.440
And then the death card?

743
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.000
Oh fireworks?

744
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:40.480
Oh no, it's a sad little doggie. Yeah.

745
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:41.960
I don't like the fireworks.

746
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.119
I like it at all. And then the one you've

747
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:45.039
been waiting for.

748
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.239
Wait before we move on, did you have you told

749
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:51.400
the story about Fourth of July?

750
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:54.280
I haven't. I should tell it? Should I tell it

751
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:55.079
before I show you?

752
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:58.960
As so many people know, Fourth of July and fireworks

753
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:04.800
are is the single day of the year where.

754
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:09.559
Most dogs and other animals run away and a fear

755
00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:12.400
of all of those loud booms.

756
00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:17.360
And we were at a friend's house in Washington, Yeah,

757
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:21.800
and we were enjoying some fireworks ourselves, and there was

758
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:27.000
a dog running down the street and Caitlin picked up

759
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:30.880
this little pup. She was a she, right, yeah, And

760
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:34.719
they just went from door to door, knocking on people's doors.

761
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:36.519
Are you missing a dog?

762
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:38.159
Yeah?

763
00:47:38.199 --> 00:47:41.159
And she found that little pup's home.

764
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:41.559
I know.

765
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:43.159
And we were pretty lucky.

766
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:46.760
We figured she was very small, She's just a little

767
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:48.800
she looked like the Taco bell dog.

768
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:50.159
She was a tuma.

769
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:51.480
Yeah, a little chee chee.

770
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.320
But you know, we only had to knock on a

771
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:57.480
handful of doors because I was a little bit worried,

772
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.480
like what if we don't find her house right here

773
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.079
in the neighborhood, Like, oh no, It's like I don't

774
00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:06.440
want to take her to a shelter if I don't

775
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:10.800
have to just because I'm like, oh, I just worry,

776
00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:12.440
like will they be reunited?

777
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:14.519
It worked out, it did.

778
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:19.840
Apparently she was a retired service animal, so she had

779
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.440
a very complex backstory.

780
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.679
A hero saving another hero.

781
00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:25.119
I know.

782
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:29.719
I look at that. Oh you flat a bear? All right?

783
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:31.039
What's this last card? Okay?

784
00:48:31.079 --> 00:48:35.440
The last one is as requested a doxy And I

785
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.840
feel like there's a commercial that was on the Super

786
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.079
Bowl like a few years back. It reminds me of like,

787
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:43.280
this reminds me of it.

788
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:46.480
Oh, I think I know what you're talking about. Okay,

789
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:50.320
and me wand's it has a huge it's not a stick.

790
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:54.920
It's basically just a tree branch. Yeah, run and around

791
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:59.199
the sun in the sky, mountains and trees in the background.

792
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.679
It's a beautiful it is it is, I mean to

793
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:06.719
be honest, Like the size of the stick in proportion

794
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.079
to the docs and carrying it. I was like, who

795
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.639
gave that doc a chainsaw? That's just dangerous Now it

796
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:15.480
ripped it off.

797
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:23.000
Yeah, it noted often that was a whole lass tree. Okay,

798
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.880
do you want to give them a good shuffle out

799
00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:28.320
the deck?

800
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:29.039
All right?

801
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:30.880
That's a deep cut.

802
00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:34.519
So I'm gonna do what Cassie and I have been

803
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.679
doing of late. I'm going to lay them out across

804
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:42.039
when we're recording remotely. She I will put them out

805
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.280
right in front of my keyboard, and she'll say, I'm

806
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:47.760
thinking like kind of to the left. Or she'll be like,

807
00:49:48.440 --> 00:49:50.400
is there a card that's close to the pe on

808
00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:52.679
your keyboard? I'm feeling like the letter.

809
00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:57.000
P because she feels like she names a P. Probably, yeah,

810
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:01.039
just gotta go. That's the heard, all right?

811
00:50:01.119 --> 00:50:02.800
Do you want to help me weigh in here? It's

812
00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:06.280
a brand new deck, so I am feeling a little intimidated. Hmmm,

813
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:10.480
I'm feeling I'm feeling here like on the right hand.

814
00:50:10.360 --> 00:50:15.880
Side, that's exactly the one I was thinking. Do you

815
00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:18.800
want to describe the card for our lovely listeners?

816
00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.280
It is a winter theme. I don't know what this

817
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:27.800
card is, okay, five.

818
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:31.599
Of it looks like it is the five of wands. Okay,

819
00:50:32.199 --> 00:50:35.000
so there's an I X down in the bottom. Right?

820
00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:37.719
Did I miscount the sticks?

821
00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:39.239
I mean, I don't know.

822
00:50:40.840 --> 00:50:45.159
I famously don't know Roman numerals. Cassie, the love of God,

823
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.039
that would be nine? Right? Is that nine?

824
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:52.000
The one before? My gosh, I'm so black to ten, right,

825
00:50:52.199 --> 00:50:56.159
and so you have one the I before the ten,

826
00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:59.519
which would make it nine. So it's a winter theme.

827
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:05.519
There's a snowman, a very sad snowman. His eyebrows are

828
00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:09.719
indicating that he's said, and there is a dog that's

829
00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:12.840
jumping up on the snowman I think, ready to take

830
00:51:12.960 --> 00:51:16.159
his little stick arm. Oh, and that's why the snowman.

831
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:17.000
Said for sure.

832
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:20.719
So if there was nine, I see one, two, three, four,

833
00:51:21.320 --> 00:51:25.639
five sticks in the snow above them, and then he's

834
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:29.719
got little two stick arms. So that's only seven. I

835
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:30.760
don't see nine.

836
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:37.400
Counting, but it does say yeah, I X yeah it

837
00:51:37.559 --> 00:51:39.960
is the nine of ones because it has a little

838
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:41.639
tiny picture in the little book.

839
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:45.840
The photos match. Yeah, confirmed, that was a close one.

840
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:47.320
Put more sticks on your curd.

841
00:51:47.360 --> 00:51:50.760
Come on, yeah, come on, don't cheap out on the sticks.

842
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.159
What are we pain by the stick here?

843
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:56.599
I love it?

844
00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:01.519
Okay, So we're going to read from the Little Dog

845
00:52:01.639 --> 00:52:03.480
Tarot book, and then I will go to the main

846
00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:07.360
interpretation from our big book. You find yourself on another

847
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:11.719
bend in the path where obstacles present themselves, and you're

848
00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:12.599
tired of fighting.

849
00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:14.039
Keep going.

850
00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:18.079
You'll eventually reach those sticks even if you have to

851
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:19.760
wait for that snowman.

852
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:23.519
To melt a little bit. Hmm interesting.

853
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:26.280
Okay, I'm going to read the upright interpretation, then we'll

854
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:29.320
go to the big book. You can see your goal

855
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:35.440
in this case, the snowman's stick arms confirmed but despite

856
00:52:35.559 --> 00:52:38.440
challenges snow and exposed pop heads.

857
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:42.159
Yikes, that's in the book. I'm not saying that. Oh okay.

858
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:46.239
The nine of One's reminds you that you've got this.

859
00:52:47.199 --> 00:52:52.280
You know, your tenacious, strong and tough. Those sticks didn't

860
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:53.199
stand a chance.

861
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:57.800
Yeah, I mean, those cases took a long time to solve,

862
00:52:58.599 --> 00:53:03.360
and if they're weren't you know some tenacious people, people

863
00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:07.320
who kept that in memory and worked on it all

864
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:12.239
over again. Yeah, this would have remained unsolved, but it

865
00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:16.000
did not. I know, they kept going around the bend,

866
00:53:16.679 --> 00:53:19.559
they kept after those sticks, and they got they got

867
00:53:19.599 --> 00:53:20.199
what they needed.

868
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:24.440
Yeah, I'm going to see what the what the big

869
00:53:24.519 --> 00:53:26.559
book says. But I feel like that, I mean that

870
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:27.960
was nice.

871
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:29.880
Yeah, I mean I nailed it.

872
00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.599
I don't even I don't even know what else you

873
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:35.559
could possibly say. They would like really clarify any more

874
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:39.559
than that. But we'll see for the nine of Wan's keywords,

875
00:53:39.639 --> 00:53:45.960
are courage, recovery, strength, success, and conquest. The nine of

876
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:50.880
wand shows you defending your territory. You've demonstrated courage and

877
00:53:51.039 --> 00:53:55.199
tenacity and proved yourself to be a powerful force. Now

878
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:58.840
you're in a strong position where you command respect, support

879
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:03.400
and rewards. This is also a card of recovery after

880
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:09.679
a setback or illness. Nine's represent completion and fulfillment. When

881
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:12.639
the nine of wands appears upright in a reading, it

882
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.280
indicates you've finished a job and done it well.

883
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:19.239
I'm in come on seriously.

884
00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:23.880
As a result of oppositions you've faced and triumphed over.

885
00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:29.480
You've grown stronger, You've demonstrated self discipline, skill and wisdom

886
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.800
and come out on top. In a reading about money,

887
00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:36.280
the upright nine suggests you've suffered losses in the past

888
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.480
but gotten matters into hand.

889
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:41.000
Now you're in a more stable position.

890
00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:44.719
In a reading about work, this card says the worst

891
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:47.960
is over, stay the course, stand your ground.

892
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:49.519
You've recovered from.

893
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:53.719
Setbacks, and success lies ahead. In a reading about love,

894
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:57.960
the nine shows you and a partner resolving difficulties. It

895
00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:01.599
promises happier times in your few sure perhaps you've both

896
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:06.199
learned something important about yourselves and the relationship. There's an

897
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:12.840
extra excerpt. It says, tie knots, the last of the

898
00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:18.760
single digit numbers. Nine signifies fullness and power as a

899
00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:23.000
result of three times three. It holds magical symbolism in

900
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:27.159
spell work. To encourage the speed and effectiveness of an

901
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:31.320
amulet or talisman, you can tie nine knots.

902
00:55:31.840 --> 00:55:36.159
To close it, Well, there was a lot there. I'm

903
00:55:36.199 --> 00:55:40.000
glad those little girls got some justice. And yeah, their

904
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:43.800
mothers and their families and the community. And I already

905
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.000
forgot those guys' names because fuck them. They fucking suck.

906
00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:49.840
And good for you.

907
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:55.360
You're able to probably just barely overpower a little girl. Yeah,

908
00:55:55.840 --> 00:55:56.960
few pieces of shit.

909
00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:05.840
Seriously, congrats on sucking the absolute most. It's funny though that,

910
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:09.559
like in the interpretation in the Big Book, in that

911
00:56:10.360 --> 00:56:15.679
little extra excerpt, it specifically says to close it, there's

912
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:18.639
sometimes these words that like I kind of glom onto

913
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:22.239
and I'm like closing a case, like closing two cases.

914
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:26.880
Well, not everybody gets that closure, So yeah, we can

915
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:31.079
take some solace in this case that there was some closure. Yeah,

916
00:56:31.800 --> 00:56:34.880
and I'm going to remember them for them playing outside

917
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:35.880
and riding their bikes.

918
00:56:36.320 --> 00:56:40.800
I know, Patty kind of talked about that in particular.

919
00:56:41.599 --> 00:56:45.320
You know, of course, knowing everything now and the way

920
00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:47.599
that it's worked out, I'm sure it's a lot easier

921
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:50.480
to like, you know, kind of feel like you you

922
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:54.639
have closure for whatever that's worth. Right, But you know,

923
00:56:54.800 --> 00:56:58.039
she was being asked a lot about kind of how

924
00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:01.199
do you feel knowing like everything thing that happened.

925
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:04.760
She was like, I have my own fairy tale.

926
00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:10.079
She kind of you know, has accepted things as they occurred,

927
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:15.119
but for her to think about it, she really just

928
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.440
you know, kind of tries to imagine that the suffering

929
00:57:18.639 --> 00:57:19.960
was as little as possible.

930
00:57:20.239 --> 00:57:25.119
And I'm like, yeah, I'm sure it was. I hope

931
00:57:25.159 --> 00:57:28.119
it was. Yeah, I think that's what anyone would want.

932
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:35.119
Well, thank you for doing this to me. I'm sorry

933
00:57:35.199 --> 00:57:35.679
inviting me.

934
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:36.800
That's what I said.

935
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:43.239
There you go, you put his husband hat back on. Well,

936
00:57:43.280 --> 00:57:45.320
should we say goodbye?

937
00:57:46.480 --> 00:57:49.440
Do you know the thing? The thing? Okay?

938
00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.199
Have ay, We'll see you next Thursday.

939
00:57:58.519 --> 00:57:59.480
Your levels sound good.

940
00:57:59.840 --> 00:58:05.159
I think they sound pretty good. Boom boom boom boom

941
00:58:05.719 --> 00:58:12.000
boom boom boom. Okay, yeah, it seems to be enjoying

942
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:14.599
that to put in her to sleep. Yeah, it's like

943
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:19.800
her lullaby Wow three six nine, damn your fine. My

944
00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:21.400
puppy is disturbed.