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Sept. 3, 2026

The Search and the Silence | Besalynn James, Lummi Nation / Bellingham, WA

The Search and the Silence | Besalynn James, Lummi Nation / Bellingham, WA
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Besalynn Mary James was 62 years old when she disappeared from her home on the Lummi Nation reservation in January 2025. Her boyfriend told police she left at 2 AM to go for a walk in freezing temperatures. After she didn’t return, it took four days for him to report her missing.

What her sister found when she went to check on Besalynn's dogs didn't match his story. The clothes he said Besalynn was wearing were still inside the trailer.

In this episode, we walk through the timeline of Besalynn's disappearance, the contradictions in her boyfriend's account, the complicated jurisdictional reality of investigating a major crime on tribal land, and the systemic crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous people. We also look at what Washington State has built in response to that crisis, and what it still hasn't been able to deliver to Besalynn's family: answers.

As of the time of this recording, Terry Bowman remains an uncharged person of interest. The FBI's Seattle Field Office continues to actively investigate. If you have information about Besalynn's disappearance, contact the FBI at 1-800-CALL-FBI, submit a tip at tips.fbi.gov, or call the Lummi Nation Police Department at 360-312-2274.

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Bess left behind everything that mattered to her daily life.

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Her three dogs, her belongings, and most strikingly, items that

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contradicted Bowman's own account of the night she went missing.

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Bowman described her as wearing a black jacket and white

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tennis shoes. When her sister went to the trailer to

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feed the dogs, she found those exact clothing items still inside.

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What is the explanation for that? Surely you're not going

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to tell me She left without those things, so what,

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she's walking around without shoes or a jacket? In 20-degree weather? Yeah.

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At 2 a.m.? Hi, Cassie. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, creepy people. Hello!

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I like how we just both kind of trailed there

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at the end. That was fun. We like to make

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it different, change it up for you guys. This is

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P & W Haunts and Homicides. Where we chat about

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true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky, creepy, and

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whatever else we want, because we can. Maybe slightly murdery. Yes. Well,

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I feel like that's covered in the true crime, but

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you know.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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That's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In the Pacific Northwest.

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Or the PNW. If you're nasty. If thou art nasty.

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If thou art nasty. I like it. I like it.

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I don't know, it just came to me. Yeah. We

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also do a little tarot reading at the end of

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every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into

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our topic.

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And Caitlin set up a beautiful altar with her new

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blood crystal.

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What's it called? It's a carnelian. Oh, yes. It's beautiful.

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It's a carnelian agate and it has like exposed drussy.

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In there, and it is so pretty. So pretty.

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And you got it on the Blood Moon Day, right?

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Yeah, it was the eclipse with the red moon.

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Right.

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So pretty. And now I have a, I can still

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smell that candle. It smells so good. Oh, what is it?

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It's a Midnight Margarita's Ocean Rose and Margarita candle. Fuck.

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It's coming soon. It's time. That's how I feel. Honestly.

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All right.

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Well, I feel like that's about the happiest this episode

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is going to be because it's Caitlin's.

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Yeah. So I love it. Yeah. Thanks for leading with that.

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You're welcome. Perfect. And I don't have a lot of

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them in this case, but I'm feeling, as I look

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at my first paragraph, I'm feeling the weight of the

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couple of pronunciations that I have to do here. Oh, okay.

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So just, you know, send me good vibes if you would.

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The Lummi Nation is a federally recognized, self-governing tribe whose

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reservation sits on the shores of the Salish Sea in

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Whatcom County, Washington, just south of Bellingham, and a short

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drive from the Canadian border. I cannot believe I said

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sits on the shores of the Salish Sea in one take.

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Sally sells she-shells. I couldn't do it. I wasn't even

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looking at that. That was an unintentional tongue twister on

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top of the pronunciations. So, uh, Before I break my

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arm patting myself on the back, I guess I'll continue,

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but I'm so proud. Keep the vibe going. Yeah. The

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tribe's traditional territory spans Washington's northern coast, the San Juan Islands,

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as well as southern British Columbia. The Lummi people, pronounced,

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hopefully the phonetic key in the YouTube videos that I watched,

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don't fail me now, it's Lakshmish. And there's sort of

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like a back of your throat kind of a click.

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Oh, yeah.

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That's hard. It is. And that's as good as it's

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going to get for me. I think pretty fly for

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a white guy, you know? Yeah. It means people of

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the sea. So the Lummi people, people of the sea,

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have lived in this region for thousands of years. And

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the reservation today is a tight-knit community of farms, modest homes,

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fishing operations, tribal institutions, all bordered by Bellingham Bay and

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the rural roads of South Whatcom County. The Lummi Reservation

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was established in 1855 through the Treaty of Point Elliott,

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which was signed with the U.S. government. Boo. Boo. Are

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we booing the U.S. government or the treaty?

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Okay.

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Yeah, I mean, a little bit of both, but mostly

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the government. What's the treaty like? It's, as treaties with

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Native tribes have historically, well, we'll, I will get to that. Okay. Yeah.

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The reservation itself is well over 20,000 acres between the

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combined upland, landmass, and marine tideland territories, though in truth,

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of course, it's sadly a very small fraction of the

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tribe's original territory. Yeah. Yeah. So now you see why

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I would boo the treaty. Right, that's right. Just in principle,

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a little bit, you know? You know, they really, the

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name treaty, it sounds like it should be a treat.

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You want a treat, yeah.

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Right?

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Guess who knows that word now? Whoopsie. Over time, due

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to various factors such as land loss through treaties, colonization,

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and economic development pressures, more colonization, the Lummi have lost

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access to many of their traditional lands. The home of

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Bezalyn James on Balch Road runs through a quiet residential

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stretch of the reservation. The kind of place where neighbors

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know and look out for each other. It's a community

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that has carried profound and disproportionate loss. Just for like

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casually the last... I would say three, four hundred years

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or so. Aww. Since we treated them. Yeah, since we

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treated them. Since we trickied them. Yeah. Trick or treat. Yikes.

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A roadside memorial not far from Bezalyn's home honors dozens

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of Lummi women and men who have disappeared or been

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lost to violence in the community, with names dating back

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to the 1950s. Wow. In January 2025... That list grew

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by one. It might have grown by more, but we're

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talking about the one today, just to be fair. According

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to the Lummi Victims of Crime Program, approximately five tribal

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members are reported missing every year. That's like... A lot.

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It's a lot. In a small community. Yes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. I mean, in like the city of Portland, I don't,

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I'm sure we have five people go missing every year.

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But think about when it's like in a smaller community

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that just feels so concentrated. It really does. Yeah. It's, oh,

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I just think about like five. Five.

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Like imagine five people from like your neighborhood disappearing every year.

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Just that's what it feels like. Bye. Oh. The LVOC

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provides confidential crisis intervention, emergency shelter, and advocates for victims

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of numerous types of abuse that may impact tribal members

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at any and every stage of life. Bessalyn Mary James

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was born October 7, 1962, and grew up in and

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around the Lummi Nation Reservation. She was one of 11

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children raised on a farm along the Red River. surrounded

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by horses roaming the beautiful landscape. And that is my

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actual childhood dream. Aw, ponies! Yeah. Her sisters Madeline and

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Rosalyn remember a childhood defined by that land and those animals.

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Bess would get up every morning before me. Every morning,

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she'd get up before me and get on the horse.

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Dad would say, whoever's up first can have the horse.

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And I'd say, but Bess gets it every time. Get

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up earlier. Yeah, get up earlier, girl. Early bird gets

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the horse. Yeah, and or the worm. You don't want

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the worm. Nah, probably not. That love of horses never

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left her, according to reporting on the case in the

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Cascadia Daily. As an adult, Bessalyn, known to family and

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community as Bessie or Bess, continued to ride, sometimes along

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the river. sometimes into town, stopping to visit her grandchildren

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when her son, Ron, was out fishing. Lummi Indian Business

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Council member Rosalie Revy Jacobs remembered her vividly. She just

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marched to her own drum. She rode a horse down

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Haxton Way, and you would just see her with a

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big smile on her face. Aww. I love that.

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That you just like pop on your horse and go

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to town and everyone knows you.

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Saddle up my horse and I ride into the city.

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Make a lot of noise because the girls, they are

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so pretty. Anyways. Riding up and down. Wait, what? Did

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they say the street name? Haxton Way. Riding up and

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down Haxton Way. By January 2025, Bessalyn was 62 years old,

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a mother, grandmother, sister, and respected elder within the Lummi Nation.

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a status that carries particular weight in the community. There's

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a lot of respect for elders. Yes, definitely. It's a

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pretty big hit when it's an elder in the community,

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Lummi police officer Jay Martin said after her disappearance. She

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lived on Balch Road with her boyfriend. It doesn't sound

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like that was actually technically maybe his primary residence. I

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don't know that he was getting his mail there, but

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he was there enough that a lot of source material

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said like their house or it. So it was a

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little bit muddy on that. But my boyfriends be like that. Yeah.

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Boyfriends be like that sometimes. If you like it, put

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a ring on it, you know? Seriously. Yeah. I mean,

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no pressure to live your best life unless she didn't

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want that. Right. That's totally exactly. Yeah. She didn't drive.

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And by every account from those who knew her, she

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never went anywhere without her three dogs. Oh, did she

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take them on the horse with her though? That's what

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I wondered. Immediately, I was like, how do you horseback

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ride with a dog asking for a friend? She got

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one on the backpack, one on the front pack. And

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the other just trots beside. He's got a good dog.

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He's got his own saddle. Yeah. Her sisters describe her

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as a homebody whose house typically showed it. Dog hair, dust,

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belongings left out on end tables and the couch. To

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which I say, same, girl. Same. Literally, this is my

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dream life. I don't. Drive a car. I ride a horse.

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I have three dogs. And you're a homebody. Yeah. Yeah.

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I was like, end of sentence. But then that last

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part was pretty important.

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Minus the boyfriend not putting a ring on it part

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because your boyfriend put a ring on it and now

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he's your husband.

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Right. I was like, now I have to call him

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something different. Sometimes I still call him boyfriend. It's cute. Yeah.

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It's a term of endearment. The last confirmed sighting of Bess,

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by anyone other than Terry Bowman, was at 1.16 p.m.

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on January 20th of 2025 at her home on the reservation.

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According to Bowman, Bess left the residence at approximately 2 a.m.

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on January 21st to go for a walk in temperatures

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in the 20 degrees range. Okay, that doesn't seem like

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maybe something... At 2 a.m. One would do. Okay, I'm

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glad you're having that reaction because literally everyone forever has

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and always will have that reaction to that particular detail. Yeah,

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that's not right. Some may write about that. She never returned.

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Council member Rosalie Revy Jacobs said plainly, It's suspicious. I

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don't know anybody who would leave at 2 a.m. on

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a walk. It just doesn't make any sense.

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I could see if like she was known for that,

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you know, like going on night walks or something. But

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it sounds like people know her pretty well and kind

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of like what she's up to.

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Yeah. Also, very cold. Yeah. Cold, an odd hour. It's

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not like an established behavior. And she wasn't on her horse.

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I know. Why would you ever walk anywhere again? I

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know I wouldn't. Bowman called Bess's sister, Rosalind, on January 25th,

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first to ask her to feed Bess's dogs. And only

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afterward did she later receive a separate call from the

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Lummi Nation Police Department informing her that her sister was

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officially missing. Who asked her to feed the dogs? The boyfriend. Huh. Huh. Yeah.

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So he like knew that she was going to be

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gone forever. For a minute or had been gone for

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a minute and was worried about the dogs and he

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couldn't feed them himself.

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Yeah, I have a lot of questions. Okay. You involve

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horses and dogs and I am so invested. I want

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to interrogate this guy because honestly, I feel like you

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got a lot to answer for there personally. Sir. I

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thought you were going to say bub. I almost said bub.

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I don't even know. I was like, my brain stopped.

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Like I had a stroke and I just was rage.

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And I was like, I don't even know what word

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00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:58.669
is about to come out. A Lummi Police Daily Activity

221
00:14:58.730 --> 00:15:04.049
Log entry documents a missing person report at the 3200

222
00:15:04.049 --> 00:15:07.070
block of Balch Road on January 21st, 2025 at 6 p.m.

223
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:19.059
Case number 25I00487. I'm giving the case number because that

224
00:15:19.480 --> 00:15:22.039
is very helpful to find it on the page if

225
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.519
you care to go and see it. The date and

226
00:15:24.590 --> 00:15:27.769
time in the log don't match when Bess was last

227
00:15:27.850 --> 00:15:34.450
confirmed seen, 1.16pm the previous day, January 20th. And neither

228
00:15:34.509 --> 00:15:38.149
matches Bowman's own claim that she left the residence at

229
00:15:38.149 --> 00:15:42.629
2 a.m. on January 21st. Nor do they match when

230
00:15:42.690 --> 00:15:47.440
Bowman actually filed the missing person report four days later

231
00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:53.080
on January 25th. So this really bothered me. And the

232
00:15:53.179 --> 00:15:56.179
amount of time that I spent trying to figure out

233
00:15:56.299 --> 00:16:00.549
why this log entry doesn't actually correlate with anything that

234
00:16:00.590 --> 00:16:03.429
made sense to me with the case... I could have

235
00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:08.120
had this done a whole day early. I'm in no

236
00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:13.080
way joking. Damn. And unfortunately now when you Google, the

237
00:16:13.159 --> 00:16:17.720
AI overview can sometimes be helpful and sometimes, as I found,

238
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:24.059
it propagates problematic theories that while they could be true,

239
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.620
I don't know that there's any factual basis for and

240
00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:32.460
some of them... I feel like I'm dancing around it,

241
00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:34.169
but some of the stuff that it spit out, I

242
00:16:34.190 --> 00:16:37.309
was like, that sounds a little... I don't want to

243
00:16:37.330 --> 00:16:42.789
sound dramatic here, but does that feel racist? I mean, probably. Yeah, probably.

244
00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:46.379
Probably a little bit. It just knows what it's been fed. Yeah.

245
00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:49.659
And it turns out people on the internet are racist.

246
00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:50.159
Weird.

247
00:16:50.299 --> 00:16:53.919
And I can't expound on that any further. Not all

248
00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:57.320
of them. Not you guys. Yeah. But... enough to where

249
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.200
I feel like AI picks up on that. It sure does.

250
00:17:00.539 --> 00:17:03.159
It turns out. And here's the thing is some of

251
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:06.009
them make a lot of sense, but I'm not going

252
00:17:06.029 --> 00:17:10.470
to really go into it fully because I just don't

253
00:17:10.690 --> 00:17:16.859
have enough information to know. Sounds plausible, but whatever the

254
00:17:16.859 --> 00:17:21.079
6 p.m. January 21st timestamp reflects, it doesn't line up

255
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:24.940
with anything else in the public record. And I As

256
00:17:25.019 --> 00:17:28.779
I said, I tried looking into a number of possible explanations,

257
00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:34.619
but wasn't able to find anything definitive. There are plausible interpretations.

258
00:17:35.420 --> 00:17:40.529
The log field, that specific date-time field, could reflect when

259
00:17:40.609 --> 00:17:43.710
Bess was believed to have gone missing based on information

260
00:17:43.849 --> 00:17:48.430
that the Lummi Police Department has, rather than what the

261
00:17:48.470 --> 00:17:53.079
report states, like when that was filed. Or it could

262
00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:57.859
be an internal administrative timestamp. Don't know what that would be.

263
00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.490
Could be a clerical error. There was a lot of

264
00:18:02.170 --> 00:18:08.609
different information that I just, it really made me mad

265
00:18:08.630 --> 00:18:11.150
because I just could see where some of it, I

266
00:18:11.190 --> 00:18:13.470
thought that makes sense. And then I was like, but

267
00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:17.460
I can't state that as fact. And I like to

268
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:21.140
state facts. Yeah. I don't envy your job at all. Yeah.

269
00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:25.940
I just, like, so many things, like, potentially made sense,

270
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.650
but I'm talking about the potential explanations so much more

271
00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:33.089
broad strokes than what I was finding because I just,

272
00:18:33.630 --> 00:18:37.970
I don't feel comfortable aligning myself with a particular theory.

273
00:18:38.950 --> 00:18:41.619
None of them fully account for the mismatch with every

274
00:18:41.670 --> 00:18:44.420
other date and time in the public record, and none

275
00:18:44.460 --> 00:18:48.259
of them have been confirmed by the Lummi Police Department.

276
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.890
I would be really interested to see if anybody ever

277
00:18:53.009 --> 00:18:57.069
followed up and asked like what their official response would be.

278
00:18:57.089 --> 00:18:59.930
I don't know. I could literally talk about this for

279
00:18:59.950 --> 00:19:03.049
the rest of the day. Go for it. I know.

280
00:19:03.109 --> 00:19:10.519
She's like, okay, we can have another two-parter. Bess left

281
00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:15.180
behind everything that mattered to her daily life. Her three dogs,

282
00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:21.630
her belongings, and most strikingly, Items that contradicted Bowman's own

283
00:19:21.750 --> 00:19:26.259
account of the night she went missing, like specifically what

284
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.799
she was wearing. Oh, okay. Bowman described her as wearing

285
00:19:30.819 --> 00:19:34.700
a black jacket and white tennis shoes. When her sister

286
00:19:34.789 --> 00:19:37.849
went to the trailer to feed the dogs, she found

287
00:19:37.930 --> 00:19:43.910
those exact clothing items still inside. Rosalind told reporters she

288
00:19:43.970 --> 00:19:48.410
believes Bess was actually wearing a different native style jacket

289
00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:52.710
that she had just purchased at Costco. Not the items

290
00:19:52.990 --> 00:19:58.039
Bowman described to police. And clearly because they were literally

291
00:19:58.099 --> 00:20:01.680
still there. So what is the explanation for that? Surely

292
00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:05.099
you're not going to tell me that she left without

293
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:07.619
those things. So what, she's walking around without shoes or

294
00:20:07.660 --> 00:20:10.789
a jacket? In 20 degree weather? Yeah.

295
00:20:10.809 --> 00:20:14.029
At 2 a.m.? I don't know if it's like a

296
00:20:14.069 --> 00:20:16.869
man thing or like, like, I don't know what she

297
00:20:16.910 --> 00:20:19.410
was wearing. I guess it was probably this. Like, he

298
00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:22.450
can't see that they're still right there or I don't know.

299
00:20:22.710 --> 00:20:25.410
I don't know. It's very like that to me is

300
00:20:26.210 --> 00:20:29.430
I don't like it. It's weird. It's weird. The trailer

301
00:20:29.529 --> 00:20:34.940
itself was another problem. It was unusually clean. Oh, because

302
00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:36.940
you said she was kind of like, oh, it's like

303
00:20:37.059 --> 00:20:42.240
a lived-in. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. But it's

304
00:20:42.269 --> 00:20:44.069
like lived-in. A very lived-in.

305
00:20:44.230 --> 00:20:44.589
Yeah.

306
00:20:44.849 --> 00:20:48.349
Yeah. That's a good way to put it, honestly. Rosalind

307
00:20:48.390 --> 00:20:52.289
described her sister as a homebody whose home normally had dust,

308
00:20:52.410 --> 00:20:55.829
dog hair, and things scattered on the tables. And, you know,

309
00:20:56.789 --> 00:20:59.390
when she walked in that Saturday, she said it was

310
00:20:59.410 --> 00:21:02.210
definitely cleaned up. Like in a way that didn't really

311
00:21:02.269 --> 00:21:07.619
make sense. for her sister, like, not being there. It just,

312
00:21:08.380 --> 00:21:11.140
something about that. I feel like it's never a good

313
00:21:11.269 --> 00:21:14.029
sign if you go to check out somebody's car or

314
00:21:14.069 --> 00:21:16.410
their house and you can tell it was freshly vacuumed.

315
00:21:16.789 --> 00:21:17.289
Yeah.

316
00:21:17.829 --> 00:21:20.869
Like they were expecting company, but they're not there. Yeah,

317
00:21:21.170 --> 00:21:23.990
that is kind of eerie in a way. In the

318
00:21:24.029 --> 00:21:29.269
weeks following her disappearance, family, friends, volunteers, and law enforcement

319
00:21:29.390 --> 00:21:34.420
searched the reservation and surrounding area extensively. but no trace

320
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.869
of Bess was found. Then on January 29th, just over

321
00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:42.730
a week after she vanished, Lummi victims of crime posted

322
00:21:42.930 --> 00:21:47.829
an unusual notice. Due to updates in the active investigation

323
00:21:48.309 --> 00:21:52.630
of Bessel and James, search efforts have been postponed until

324
00:21:52.930 --> 00:21:58.150
future notice. Please continue to avoid any areas under investigation.

325
00:21:59.009 --> 00:22:04.269
You can help preserve the Balch Road radius by keeping

326
00:22:04.349 --> 00:22:08.410
pet dogs on a leash and by reporting any suspicious

327
00:22:08.569 --> 00:22:14.269
activity or tips to 911. So forensically, there was something

328
00:22:14.490 --> 00:22:18.250
presumably that they were hoping to preserve that they called off,

329
00:22:18.930 --> 00:22:23.380
you know, essentially volunteer search efforts. Huh. And there's been

330
00:22:23.410 --> 00:22:27.710
a lot of speculation around that. Like, yeah, that doesn't

331
00:22:27.730 --> 00:22:31.880
make sense to me at all. Well, I have my

332
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.480
theories and sometimes I don't like to say kind of

333
00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:40.299
what I think based on what, you know, I'm reading

334
00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:42.500
because I'm like, I don't know if this is true.

335
00:22:42.579 --> 00:22:46.910
And I hate to just like kind of extrapolate on something.

336
00:22:46.970 --> 00:22:50.950
And I, you know, I don't have insider info. But

337
00:22:50.990 --> 00:22:54.960
to me... that kind of seems like forensically they had

338
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:58.940
to have found something already that led them to believe

339
00:22:59.059 --> 00:23:04.880
that there was greater value in preserving the scene than

340
00:23:05.170 --> 00:23:08.809
continuing to search for her. Yeah, it would have to

341
00:23:08.849 --> 00:23:13.569
be something like pretty big, I would think. That's just

342
00:23:13.789 --> 00:23:16.690
my thought. But they didn't say what it was. Nope.

343
00:23:17.109 --> 00:23:21.680
Or if it was anything. Exactly. Okay. The notice asked

344
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.109
the public to preserve a specific radius around Balch Road,

345
00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:29.569
basically her home in the surrounding area. The request that

346
00:23:29.630 --> 00:23:33.650
residents keep their dogs leashed points toward concern about the

347
00:23:33.690 --> 00:23:38.369
disturbance of physical evidence in the outdoor area, though this

348
00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:44.000
is important. No source has publicly stated that specifically. They've

349
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.400
never confirmed that. But no source, like I said, they've

350
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.809
never publicly confirmed what, if anything, was being preserved. So

351
00:23:52.869 --> 00:23:55.470
they don't specify what, they don't actually confirm that that

352
00:23:55.670 --> 00:24:00.789
is what they're doing, but connect the dots. Yeah. What

353
00:24:00.869 --> 00:24:05.170
specifically prompted the pause or what investigators found, if anything,

354
00:24:05.269 --> 00:24:08.630
has never been publicly explained. In the year and a

355
00:24:08.670 --> 00:24:12.099
half since, no outlet has ever returned to that question.

356
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:13.859
Not that I could find.

357
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:14.480
Huh.

358
00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:19.240
That silence isn't the exception. Not for cases like this one.

359
00:24:19.779 --> 00:24:23.299
It's the rule. I don't like that. No. And I

360
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:26.700
will say that of a lot of cases that I

361
00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:31.130
have looked at to talk about, there's a lot more

362
00:24:31.150 --> 00:24:36.710
about Bess's case than I anticipated. I started looking at

363
00:24:36.750 --> 00:24:40.630
this thinking, I just don't know if this is like

364
00:24:40.829 --> 00:24:43.160
one that I have to kind of talk about as serious.

365
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.440
Kind of of disappearances maybe in the area, but there's

366
00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:50.329
a lot more information than I thought there would be,

367
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:55.410
which is really sad to say. Yeah. To anticipate that

368
00:24:55.430 --> 00:24:57.789
there won't be enough information for me to talk about

369
00:24:57.809 --> 00:25:02.750
this person, you know, for an hour. Right. They're missing. Like,

370
00:25:03.230 --> 00:25:06.450
there should be. There should be like a whole three-hour,

371
00:25:06.789 --> 00:25:12.990
you know, Odyssey-level documentary of information available. That's how it

372
00:25:13.029 --> 00:25:16.970
should be. And I mean, thankfully, there definitely was a

373
00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:21.240
lot of information, but... Just not on this part of it. Right. Yeah,

374
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:27.539
definitely some key parts of the case that are... And again,

375
00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:31.289
you know, we say this a lot, but sometimes that's intentional.

376
00:25:31.329 --> 00:25:35.549
Investigators have to hold certain things back because that's going

377
00:25:35.569 --> 00:25:39.910
to be their only leverage in proving, oh, this person

378
00:25:40.150 --> 00:25:44.710
knows this, so they are the perp. Right. Things like that.

379
00:25:44.730 --> 00:25:47.210
I don't know. I do get that. It just makes

380
00:25:47.269 --> 00:25:51.480
things more. It's frustrating. That's sort of a separate issue

381
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:56.119
from when there's a case that there's just not information about, period.

382
00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:59.720
Those are kind of separate issues in my mind. Sometimes

383
00:25:59.740 --> 00:26:03.049
you can have both where there's like almost no information

384
00:26:03.789 --> 00:26:08.269
and where they're saying we're holding information because it's an

385
00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:12.339
active investigation. I wish they would just say that. Like,

386
00:26:12.380 --> 00:26:13.519
why can't you just say that? And a lot of

387
00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:15.940
times they do. And that is kind of the thing.

388
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:21.319
And it's implied with certain things where they're not specifying.

389
00:26:21.380 --> 00:26:24.240
It's like, well, it's an active investigation. This is all

390
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:25.460
we can say. Yeah.

391
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.720
But I think it's just hard for like us who aren't,

392
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.799
we're not like her family or friends.

393
00:26:30.859 --> 00:26:33.769
We didn't know her. Yeah. And it's not like we,

394
00:26:34.269 --> 00:26:38.140
we need to know for like, selfish reasons.

395
00:26:38.259 --> 00:26:42.500
I just feel like because we want there to be

396
00:26:43.059 --> 00:26:46.579
like information on a missing woman. No, I mean, that's

397
00:26:46.640 --> 00:26:48.559
exactly what it is. And you want there to be

398
00:26:48.619 --> 00:26:50.160
enough information.

399
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:54.210
Out there that hopefully like it jogs someone's memory or

400
00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:57.930
like it's enough that people connect with the case and

401
00:26:58.190 --> 00:27:01.650
it generates tips somehow, whatever that is. Yeah. Yeah.

402
00:27:03.490 --> 00:27:05.539
It's not like we're just itching to know, like, oh,

403
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.380
did they find, like, a bloody knife in the grass?

404
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.759
No, I would actually prefer that that's not what they

405
00:27:11.779 --> 00:27:15.240
found and that's not the reason. If I'm being honest, like,

406
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:18.200
it is about that, like, I hope that there's enough

407
00:27:18.259 --> 00:27:22.779
out there that it advances the case. Yeah, a thousand percent.

408
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.680
Bess's disappearance is being investigated jointly by the Lummi Nation

409
00:27:27.740 --> 00:27:32.569
Police Department, the FBI's Seattle Field Office... the Whatcom County

410
00:27:32.609 --> 00:27:37.890
Sheriff's Office, the Bellingham Police Department, along with other law

411
00:27:37.910 --> 00:27:44.079
enforcement partners. It reflects a genuinely complicated jurisdictional reality that

412
00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:48.079
affects nearly every case involving a missing or murdered person

413
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.200
on tribal land in the United States. Washington is one

414
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.869
of several states that assumed criminal jurisdiction over tribal lands

415
00:27:56.990 --> 00:28:03.059
under Public Law 280. a 1953 federal law passed without

416
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:06.440
tribal consent. So I think you can guess how I feel.

417
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:07.759
Right.

418
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:10.940
In general, just checking the vibe.

419
00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:14.440
So they like give them their own land and space

420
00:28:14.500 --> 00:28:16.980
to have like their own laws and things, but then

421
00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:20.759
they're like, but wait a minute. Yeah.

422
00:28:20.859 --> 00:28:24.480
We don't want to get carried away. But the Lummi

423
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:29.849
Nation's reservation falls under what's known as a partial PL

424
00:28:29.849 --> 00:28:34.430
280 jurisdiction. So state authority there is restricted to eight

425
00:28:34.509 --> 00:28:41.279
specific subject areas. Compulsory school attendance, public assistance, domestic relations,

426
00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:47.519
mental illness, juvenile delinquency, adoption proceedings, dependent children, and the

427
00:28:47.619 --> 00:28:52.799
operation of motor vehicles on public roads. Wow. Okay. So

428
00:28:53.380 --> 00:28:58.990
most aspects of your day-to-day life, I would say. Yeah,

429
00:28:59.009 --> 00:29:04.980
I see the wheels turning. Okay. I see you trying

430
00:29:05.019 --> 00:29:09.119
to puzzle it out. I don't understand that. It is confusing. Okay.

431
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:23.079
jurisdiction for major crimes like homicide was never handed off

432
00:29:23.220 --> 00:29:26.740
to the state of Washington, which is why the FBI

433
00:29:27.380 --> 00:29:31.220
is the lead investigating agency rather than Whatcom County or

434
00:29:31.309 --> 00:29:37.130
Washington state alone. So the state has jurisdiction over almost anything,

435
00:29:37.150 --> 00:29:41.529
but not this. And in a way, I don't think

436
00:29:41.609 --> 00:29:45.190
this is what they intended, but it kind of... I'm

437
00:29:45.269 --> 00:29:48.819
trying to see a silver lining in that the FBI

438
00:29:48.890 --> 00:29:49.579
is involved.

439
00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:52.619
It could be a good thing because, like, they have

440
00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:54.940
more resources and... In theory.

441
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:56.740
Things to help, but, like, are they?

442
00:29:56.940 --> 00:29:57.400
Are they?

443
00:29:58.619 --> 00:30:04.609
Are they? This jurisdictional patchwork, patchwork is hardly ever what

444
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:08.609
you want to hear. No. Tribal, federal, and state authority

445
00:30:08.789 --> 00:30:12.410
overlapping and sometimes leaving gaps depending on the nature of

446
00:30:12.450 --> 00:30:15.609
the crime, the tribal status of the victim, and the

447
00:30:15.650 --> 00:30:20.849
tribal status of any suspect is itself a documented contributing

448
00:30:20.890 --> 00:30:25.640
factor in the broader missing and murdered indigenous people crisis.

449
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:29.720
Because nobody knows what the fuck is going on sometimes.

450
00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:35.009
cases can stall not from lack of effort by any

451
00:30:35.130 --> 00:30:40.210
single agency but sometimes from confusion about which agency has

452
00:30:40.269 --> 00:30:45.150
the authority to act which is super fucking frustrating that's

453
00:30:45.230 --> 00:30:48.410
a nightmare because like things just like follow through the

454
00:30:48.450 --> 00:30:54.950
cracks exactly made worse by under-resourced tribal police departments and

455
00:30:54.990 --> 00:31:01.519
the FBI's broad caseload across an enormous service territory all

456
00:31:01.670 --> 00:31:07.039
of our nation yeah so the fbi being involved can

457
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.359
be good but also not they've got a little bit

458
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:16.539
of a divided focus if you will yeah so what

459
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:22.930
happened to bess investigators haven't publicly committed to a an

460
00:31:23.009 --> 00:31:26.779
answer not not a specific one Her family has. The

461
00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:30.160
Lummi Nation has. What no one can offer them yet

462
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:34.240
is the resolution, a body to bury, a case to close,

463
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:38.359
a person to hold accountable. So there are some theories

464
00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:43.259
about what's the party line, what's the official answer, what

465
00:31:43.539 --> 00:31:48.799
actually happened. The first one is, well, I mean, it's

466
00:31:48.819 --> 00:31:54.680
a very prominent issue on reservation territory, domestic violence and

467
00:31:54.829 --> 00:31:58.680
or the idea that there was direct involvement, some sort

468
00:31:58.720 --> 00:32:02.259
of foul play specifically by Bowman. I could see that

469
00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:05.640
as being like the very obvious theory. The most prominently

470
00:32:05.779 --> 00:32:10.309
aired theory in coverage of this case centers on Bowman himself,

471
00:32:10.750 --> 00:32:15.150
the contradictions in his account, the implausible 2 a.m. walk

472
00:32:15.269 --> 00:32:21.269
in freezing temperatures, the discrepancy in the clothing, the unusual

473
00:32:21.789 --> 00:32:26.160
cleanliness of the residence, which feels like a fucking slap

474
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:30.119
in the face, but it's just that it looked so

475
00:32:30.220 --> 00:32:33.200
freshly cleaned compared to day to day. I'm not trying

476
00:32:33.220 --> 00:32:38.180
to say, I'm not actually calling her messy Bessie. The

477
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:43.539
four day delay before finally reporting her missing. Yeah. All

478
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.160
of that has led both family members and at least

479
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.609
one tribal official to question his version of events publicly.

480
00:32:51.250 --> 00:32:56.230
He's getting some serious, like, T-Swift-level shade thrown his way.

481
00:32:56.349 --> 00:32:57.490
It makes sense. Yeah.

482
00:32:57.509 --> 00:33:01.049
Because I'm thinking about, like, if you decided to go

483
00:33:01.109 --> 00:33:02.089
on a walk at 2 a.m.

484
00:33:02.130 --> 00:33:06.450
In the freezing cold. For one, your husband wouldn't let you. But... Yeah.

485
00:33:07.150 --> 00:33:10.559
At least not alone. But, like, if you didn't come

486
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:14.799
back after... Can you imagine Chris just, like, not reporting

487
00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:18.289
me missing for four days? For four days? No. I

488
00:33:18.329 --> 00:33:21.319
love how we said that in perfect unison. He has

489
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:26.680
been interviewed both by tribal and federal investigators. And while

490
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:31.500
he has not been cleared, he also hasn't been charged. Additionally,

491
00:33:31.619 --> 00:33:35.890
no public source has disclosed what physical evidence, if any,

492
00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:41.769
investigators have connecting him directly to her disappearance. The next

493
00:33:41.849 --> 00:33:45.490
theory is a third party. So basically just anyone other

494
00:33:45.529 --> 00:33:51.970
than Bowman. Beyond Bowman, no specific alternative suspect has been named,

495
00:33:52.210 --> 00:33:57.289
probably because Bess was the fucking boss and she was

496
00:33:57.329 --> 00:34:00.809
an awesome lady and they can't think of anybody else

497
00:34:00.869 --> 00:34:03.960
that would mean to do her harm. Right.

498
00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:08.219
It sounded like she was just so well-loved and known

499
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:09.699
in their community.

500
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:12.539
And just living her best life. So, I don't know.

501
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:17.210
Could have been someone rolling through, but I don't know. However,

502
00:34:17.230 --> 00:34:19.650
the theory that Bess came to harm at the hands

503
00:34:19.690 --> 00:34:23.469
of a third party, it can't be ruled out entirely,

504
00:34:23.489 --> 00:34:27.550
but it does run against the pattern of data that

505
00:34:27.710 --> 00:34:32.929
shapes these types of cases nationally. Intimate partner violence is

506
00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:38.710
a major driver of homicide against Indigenous women. Indigenous women particularly,

507
00:34:38.769 --> 00:34:40.170
but like all women.

508
00:34:40.250 --> 00:34:40.670
Yeah.

509
00:34:41.309 --> 00:34:46.420
Nationally, spouses and acquaintances are the two largest categories of

510
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:52.960
identified perpetrators in solved cases involving Indigenous women. We say

511
00:34:53.019 --> 00:34:57.250
it all the time, jokingly, but it's always the husband. Right.

512
00:34:58.090 --> 00:35:01.860
And in this case, Specifically, the person who was with

513
00:35:01.909 --> 00:35:05.780
Bess in the hours before she disappeared, who waited four

514
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.960
days to report her missing, and whose account of what

515
00:35:09.019 --> 00:35:11.820
she was wearing didn't match what her sister later found

516
00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:14.949
in the trailer. is her boyfriend. And I'm never letting

517
00:35:14.989 --> 00:35:18.570
that go. No, I don't think you should. I feel

518
00:35:18.590 --> 00:35:22.570
like I've really harped on certain aspects of like the

519
00:35:22.630 --> 00:35:25.969
discrepancies and what he has said and like what the

520
00:35:26.090 --> 00:35:30.730
evidence that we factually know is confirmed. I'm like, sorry,

521
00:35:30.750 --> 00:35:34.050
I'm going to say it again. Say it again, man.

522
00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:37.630
I could see like if she really did go out

523
00:35:37.650 --> 00:35:39.050
at 2 a.m.

524
00:35:39.230 --> 00:35:43.320
And ran into someone shady, but like... It's just so unlikely. Like,

525
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:45.420
you have to believe that she did that in the

526
00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:50.699
first place. Yeah. And I don't. Like, unless.

527
00:35:50.900 --> 00:35:52.829
The only thing I could think of is if, like,

528
00:35:52.929 --> 00:35:56.329
they got into a fight. And then maybe you would

529
00:35:57.449 --> 00:35:58.809
need to get away at 2 a.m.

530
00:35:58.869 --> 00:36:04.300
Technically, there was only one source of... that mentioned something

531
00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:08.369
about there potentially having been a fight between the two

532
00:36:08.429 --> 00:36:11.949
of them. But it was like such a throwaway comment

533
00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:16.849
and it wasn't backed up by any other agency or

534
00:36:17.030 --> 00:36:20.170
reporting that I was like, And.

535
00:36:20.190 --> 00:36:22.429
If you were the boyfriend and you had gotten in

536
00:36:22.489 --> 00:36:23.530
a fight and she left.

537
00:36:23.550 --> 00:36:27.789
Then you get the fuck out. It's my house. Yes, that.

538
00:36:28.190 --> 00:36:31.269
But like, wouldn't that be something you would make sure

539
00:36:31.289 --> 00:36:33.369
is no, like, hey, we got into a fight.

540
00:36:33.510 --> 00:36:36.210
She wanted space. So I waited.

541
00:36:37.030 --> 00:36:39.150
I thought she just had left me.

542
00:36:39.429 --> 00:36:41.530
And she's going to cool off. Literally.

543
00:36:41.570 --> 00:36:44.829
And then, OK, 20 degrees out for days. And she

544
00:36:44.869 --> 00:36:47.139
hasn't like that would make more sense to me.

545
00:36:47.389 --> 00:36:50.500
Yes. It sure would. But it doesn't sound like he

546
00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:55.920
has said this. Not that I could find. Not to

547
00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:59.739
give anyone tips, but. Right. No, but it's like, I mean,

548
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:03.409
make it make sense is all we're saying. And it doesn't.

549
00:37:03.570 --> 00:37:08.969
So now you get the side eye. Yeah. Bombastic side eye.

550
00:37:09.869 --> 00:37:14.579
Substantiating this theory more fully would require public evidence that

551
00:37:14.619 --> 00:37:19.960
doesn't currently exist. I'm not saying this is definitively the

552
00:37:20.059 --> 00:37:22.800
last and only other theory, but it's the only other

553
00:37:22.860 --> 00:37:26.659
one that I'm going to really talk about. Voluntary disappearance.

554
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.239
I feel like that obviously comes up a lot. You know,

555
00:37:30.380 --> 00:37:33.699
if she were a child, they'd say run away. Right.

556
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:38.699
This theory is very difficult to sustain given what is known.

557
00:37:39.739 --> 00:37:44.599
Bess did not drive. Makes it a lot harder to disappear,

558
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:48.559
especially in the middle of the night. She was described

559
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:54.059
by family as a homebody. And in this instance, her

560
00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:58.530
three dogs were left behind, which her family members adamantly

561
00:37:58.610 --> 00:38:02.289
state she would never willingly do. I believe that. A

562
00:38:02.429 --> 00:38:09.170
thousand percent. If I ever leave my dogs behind, never

563
00:38:09.309 --> 00:38:14.199
stop looking for me because I didn't go willingly. Seriously. Listen,

564
00:38:14.260 --> 00:38:16.710
if she was just some shitty bitch who had a

565
00:38:16.750 --> 00:38:18.750
bunch of dogs that she didn't give a fuck about,

566
00:38:19.289 --> 00:38:23.070
that's not her. No. And even if she was a

567
00:38:23.150 --> 00:38:27.550
shitty dog owner, like, we still have to look for her. Yeah.

568
00:38:28.409 --> 00:38:33.349
I guess. In the roughly year and a half since

569
00:38:33.389 --> 00:38:37.530
her disappearance, she has had no confirmed contact with anyone

570
00:38:37.699 --> 00:38:41.800
in her life. Of her three dogs, two are now

571
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:47.800
with family and friends. The third disappeared when she did. Oh.

572
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:52.780
And I think there are a number of ways that

573
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:57.500
you can extrapolate on that. I can't dwell on that

574
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:03.289
because I will be ugly crying in 30 seconds or less. Oh.

575
00:39:04.289 --> 00:39:07.489
I'm going to ugly cry. I know. I'm just, yeah,

576
00:39:07.630 --> 00:39:12.250
I'm thinking about it. Like something really wrong happened here.

577
00:39:13.000 --> 00:39:16.489
And like either the dog is hurt or it like

578
00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:17.630
went looking for her.

579
00:39:18.309 --> 00:39:18.750
I don't know.

580
00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:24.710
I don't, like none of the possible, none of the

581
00:39:24.750 --> 00:39:29.449
possibilities are great in my mind. Her family and the

582
00:39:29.510 --> 00:39:34.440
Lummi Nation. itself have publicly stated their belief that she

583
00:39:34.519 --> 00:39:38.900
is the victim of homicide. What's left is the theory

584
00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:43.010
the family, the community, and the tribal government have publicly

585
00:39:43.110 --> 00:39:50.820
landed on. That someone she knew, presumably intimately... caused her disappearance,

586
00:39:51.780 --> 00:39:56.900
and that person has never been charged. In late June 2025,

587
00:39:56.900 --> 00:40:02.820
the Lummi Nation actually posted a notice on Facebook stating

588
00:40:03.429 --> 00:40:07.210
very plainly that Bess is believed to be a victim

589
00:40:07.269 --> 00:40:11.800
of homicide. and asked the public to report any knowledge

590
00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:16.389
of human remains, or did somebody make what you thought

591
00:40:16.429 --> 00:40:19.590
might have been an off-color joke at a bar type

592
00:40:19.650 --> 00:40:22.849
of a thing? Like, you know, one of those crazy

593
00:40:22.909 --> 00:40:29.489
drunken confessions? While this notice wasn't an official announcement made

594
00:40:29.610 --> 00:40:36.289
by law enforcement specifically... The family believes that the investigators

595
00:40:36.449 --> 00:40:42.070
are no longer anticipating recovering Bess alive and that recovering

596
00:40:42.130 --> 00:40:46.269
her remains is now the primary goal. And I think

597
00:40:47.010 --> 00:40:51.090
the fact that they paused the search early on, that

598
00:40:51.650 --> 00:40:56.170
is what I kind of immediately thought. Yeah. They needed

599
00:40:56.269 --> 00:40:59.409
to preserve evidence because that is going to be what

600
00:40:59.449 --> 00:41:02.809
they used to nail someone to the wall for the crime.

601
00:41:03.210 --> 00:41:06.289
And they were like, it's not a ticking clock trying

602
00:41:06.369 --> 00:41:11.880
to save her life. It's about trying to preserve any

603
00:41:11.960 --> 00:41:16.739
chance that we have of justice. Bess's son, Ron Nolan, said,

604
00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:20.059
You have to read between the lines. They told me

605
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.840
things after the search, and I could piece it together.

606
00:41:23.260 --> 00:41:26.739
They're looking for her body. It's a recovery. It's not

607
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:31.989
a find. They're not going to find her alive. Her sister, Rosalyn,

608
00:41:32.210 --> 00:41:36.309
began keeping a desk calendar, the kind one might expect

609
00:41:36.329 --> 00:41:41.190
to find on a detective's desk. Logging her sister's last

610
00:41:41.429 --> 00:41:46.469
text messages, her last Facebook posts, her last known whereabouts,

611
00:41:46.949 --> 00:41:50.969
the days since she was reported missing, the meals delivered

612
00:41:51.030 --> 00:41:55.619
by well-wishers, the tips that came in. This calendar has

613
00:41:56.030 --> 00:42:01.389
it all. And in her words, it literally just became

614
00:42:01.530 --> 00:42:04.510
an outlet for the anger that she felt every day

615
00:42:04.750 --> 00:42:11.809
her sister remained missing. And I get it. On July 16th, 2025,

616
00:42:11.809 --> 00:42:18.590
the Lummi Nation Police Department publicly named Terry Bowman, Bess's

617
00:42:18.610 --> 00:42:21.630
boyfriend at the time of her disappearance, as a person

618
00:42:21.789 --> 00:42:26.380
of interest. Police Chief Jay Martin told King 5 that

619
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:30.170
Bowman had been interviewed by both tribal police and the

620
00:42:30.349 --> 00:42:37.389
FBI and said investigators, quote, know where Bowman is and are, quote,

621
00:42:37.550 --> 00:42:41.440
putting pieces of the puzzle together. At the time, he

622
00:42:41.480 --> 00:42:45.739
was believed to be in Idaho. From what I understand,

623
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.059
that is not a state that he specifically has ties to. Apparently,

624
00:42:50.179 --> 00:42:54.619
Bess did. Okay. I don't know if that means anything. Yeah.

625
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.559
It's hard to say. But he left is the point,

626
00:42:58.539 --> 00:43:01.519
kind of. Kind of, that's the more important thing.

627
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:03.989
Which I would understand if you were a person of

628
00:43:04.050 --> 00:43:07.650
interest and the town is looking at you a certain way.

629
00:43:07.670 --> 00:43:11.409
Yeah. You'd probably leave. It doesn't mean you're guilty, but.

630
00:43:11.570 --> 00:43:16.210
You can make an argument either way, right? Bess's sister, Rosalyn,

631
00:43:16.949 --> 00:43:20.460
learned Bowman had been publicly named while watching the news. Yes.

632
00:43:21.369 --> 00:43:25.110
Law enforcement had not contacted her directly about the development.

633
00:43:25.670 --> 00:43:28.150
And I know that sometimes this happens, but it feels

634
00:43:28.210 --> 00:43:32.349
really shitty. She said it was a total surprise. What

635
00:43:32.389 --> 00:43:34.289
if she hadn't been watching the news? How would she

636
00:43:34.349 --> 00:43:34.780
ever know?

637
00:43:35.239 --> 00:43:35.380
Yep.

638
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:37.619
And this is someone that has been a part of

639
00:43:37.659 --> 00:43:41.639
their community, interacted with their family. I feel like for

640
00:43:41.659 --> 00:43:44.619
their own personal safety, they should maybe have an awareness

641
00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:49.360
about this. Yeah. Her sister, Madeline... Frustrated by the lack

642
00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:53.500
of action, told reporters, he's out living his life. I

643
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:55.969
want him in jail so they can turn him upside

644
00:43:56.030 --> 00:43:59.510
down and talk to him and get some answers. As

645
00:43:59.570 --> 00:44:04.150
of the most recent reporting reviewed from January 2026, Bowman

646
00:44:04.190 --> 00:44:08.730
has never been charged in connection with her disappearance. Rosalyn

647
00:44:08.769 --> 00:44:11.989
has said she heard rumors that Bowman has actually been

648
00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:18.010
seen at the Silver Reef Casino, located... on the Lummi Reservation.

649
00:44:18.510 --> 00:44:23.690
That was in early January 2026, despite earlier reporting placing

650
00:44:23.750 --> 00:44:26.789
him in Idaho. So he's either like back or back

651
00:44:26.829 --> 00:44:31.690
and forth? Yeah, begs a lot of questions. I will

652
00:44:32.050 --> 00:44:39.690
let everyone noodle on that independently. Marking the first anniversary

653
00:44:39.829 --> 00:44:47.340
of her disappearance, on January 22nd, 2026, The FBI's Seattle

654
00:44:47.389 --> 00:44:51.889
field office released an updated missing person poster and announced

655
00:44:52.409 --> 00:44:56.210
a reward of up to $ 10, 000 for information leading to

656
00:44:56.250 --> 00:45:00.829
the arrest and conviction of those involved. Assistant Special Agent

657
00:45:00.869 --> 00:45:05.869
in Charge Gerald Birkin said, In Ms. James' case, Over

658
00:45:05.909 --> 00:45:11.250
the past year, law enforcement has conducted multiple investigative actions

659
00:45:11.429 --> 00:45:15.170
across several states to try to discover what happened and

660
00:45:15.210 --> 00:45:20.059
her whereabouts. We will continue to diligently investigate this case

661
00:45:20.380 --> 00:45:26.840
no matter how long it takes. On January 21st, 2026,

662
00:45:26.840 --> 00:45:31.900
the actual anniversary, approximately 50 people gathered on the Lemme

663
00:45:31.960 --> 00:45:36.579
Reservation in and marched along, I want to say, Quina Road.

664
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.320
I might be wrong. That's not important. They were chanting,

665
00:45:40.739 --> 00:45:46.630
say her name. Oh. Bess's son, Ron, walked carrying a

666
00:45:46.670 --> 00:45:51.489
flag representing missing and murdered Indigenous women and people. And

667
00:45:51.550 --> 00:45:58.119
Bess's sister carried a flag bearing her sister's photo. Madeline did. Rosalyn...

668
00:45:58.179 --> 00:46:02.119
now 67, sat at a sign-in table surrounded by poster

669
00:46:02.139 --> 00:46:06.420
boards of her sister riding horses and with her grandchildren.

670
00:46:07.320 --> 00:46:10.570
We're basically flying by on a wing and a prayer,

671
00:46:10.989 --> 00:46:15.590
she said. Bessalyn James is one of at least 110

672
00:46:15.590 --> 00:46:21.050
missing Indigenous people in Washington state as of early 2026.

673
00:46:21.429 --> 00:46:26.079
According to the Washington State Patrol's Missing Indigenous Persons List,

674
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:35.320
statewide Washington's homicide investigation tracking system reflects 115 unsolved homicides

675
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:41.440
involving Indigenous victims. Advocates widely believe the true number of

676
00:46:41.559 --> 00:46:46.429
missing and murdered Indigenous people in Washington, as well as nationally,

677
00:46:47.170 --> 00:46:53.110
is undercounted due to systemic underreporting and racial misclassification in

678
00:46:53.150 --> 00:46:57.949
how cases are logged. Washington has actually become a national

679
00:46:58.010 --> 00:47:02.150
leader in responding to this crisis, even as cases like

680
00:47:02.210 --> 00:47:07.170
Bess's remain unsolved. In 2021, they joined several other states

681
00:47:07.349 --> 00:47:15.320
in establishing an MMIWP task force. That task force's recommendations

682
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:21.349
led directly to two concrete tools— explicitly empowering investigations into

683
00:47:21.409 --> 00:47:27.309
missing persons and homicide cases involving Indigenous victims. First, the

684
00:47:27.349 --> 00:47:34.269
statewide Missing Indigenous Person Alert System launched in 2022. It's

685
00:47:34.309 --> 00:47:38.949
a dedicated emergency alert system basically modeled on Amber Alerts.

686
00:47:39.860 --> 00:47:43.179
And an alert was issued for Bess's own case in

687
00:47:43.300 --> 00:47:50.039
February of 2025. As of April 2026, The Missing Indigenous

688
00:47:50.099 --> 00:47:58.860
Persons Alert System has issued 220 alerts with 203 people recovered,

689
00:47:58.860 --> 00:48:04.929
12 still missing, and five found deceased. Wow. But they

690
00:48:04.989 --> 00:48:11.130
found that many people? That's crazy. Yeah. We actually are

691
00:48:11.190 --> 00:48:14.070
set up. on our pod email to receive the alerts.

692
00:48:14.510 --> 00:48:17.730
And so they have an activate and a cancel. And

693
00:48:17.789 --> 00:48:21.380
we get flooded with them. There's so many that I

694
00:48:22.179 --> 00:48:26.420
used to sort them into a folder immediately so that

695
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:29.920
I could come back to them. And now I let

696
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.099
them kind of sit in there for a day or

697
00:48:32.139 --> 00:48:35.960
two at least to see if the cancel will come through.

698
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:40.909
Because that happens a lot. I do like it. Like

699
00:48:40.969 --> 00:48:45.750
I like, That it's helping. Yeah. It's sad that it

700
00:48:45.849 --> 00:48:49.090
has to come through so often, but like... Yeah. Well,

701
00:48:49.150 --> 00:48:52.510
and it's sad that that is kind of... It feels

702
00:48:52.550 --> 00:48:56.300
like that's the only way that anything happens. Yeah. If

703
00:48:56.340 --> 00:48:58.239
that makes sense. Like, we have to have their own

704
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:03.940
special alert system because otherwise, who knows what'll fucking happen. Yeah.

705
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:10.969
And in 2023... Washington became the first state to establish

706
00:49:11.570 --> 00:49:17.070
an MMIWP cold case unit, a dedicated cold case unit.

707
00:49:17.789 --> 00:49:24.239
Washington State Representative Deborah Lankanoff, who sponsored the legislation creating

708
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:27.820
the unit, put the human stakes plainly. Oh, God, I'm

709
00:49:27.880 --> 00:49:31.420
going to ugly cry. No, you're going to make me.

710
00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:36.730
I know. We have witnessed women who look like me, aunties,

711
00:49:37.090 --> 00:49:41.500
girls who look like me, grandmothers, go missing one after

712
00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:48.300
another with unresolved cases, unresolved detention from governing bodies. According

713
00:49:48.360 --> 00:49:52.360
to Lankanoff, the cold case unit has helped resolve dormant

714
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:57.719
cases dating back 30 or 40 years. That's so great.

715
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:03.230
It's so emotional, but like, so good. And we talked

716
00:50:03.289 --> 00:50:07.889
about a case that actually is cited that's more recent,

717
00:50:07.969 --> 00:50:12.070
and that's George David. His was like a 20, it

718
00:50:12.110 --> 00:50:15.170
was a 2016 case. He was found dead from blunt

719
00:50:15.190 --> 00:50:18.320
force trauma to the head inside a friend's apartment in

720
00:50:18.460 --> 00:50:24.500
Port Angeles. He had traveled there from Nia Bay before

721
00:50:24.860 --> 00:50:30.340
going on to visit family in British Columbia. That state

722
00:50:30.389 --> 00:50:34.230
level leadership sits within a broader federal framework as well.

723
00:50:35.030 --> 00:50:40.030
In 2020, Congress passed two significant pieces of legislation aimed

724
00:50:40.170 --> 00:50:45.949
at addressing the literal crisis. Savannah's Act and the Not

725
00:50:46.030 --> 00:50:53.679
Invisible Act. Together, they were intended to improve coordination among federal, state, tribal,

726
00:50:54.159 --> 00:50:59.889
and local law enforcement on Indigenous cases. And to increase

727
00:51:00.170 --> 00:51:02.860
data accuracy, because that's really important.

728
00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:03.460
Yeah.

729
00:51:03.599 --> 00:51:07.019
Involving the cases, like we have to have accurate information.

730
00:51:07.059 --> 00:51:09.570
And that's why I really fell down the rabbit hole

731
00:51:09.710 --> 00:51:16.219
with that Lummi Police Department activity. log entry that didn't

732
00:51:16.260 --> 00:51:21.130
match anything. And there were so many different explanations. One

733
00:51:21.150 --> 00:51:23.510
thing that I read, and I couldn't find that there

734
00:51:23.550 --> 00:51:28.030
was actual, like, confirmation of this, was that, oh, tribal systems,

735
00:51:28.670 --> 00:51:33.400
they log things based on, you know, X, Y, Z,

736
00:51:33.610 --> 00:51:37.679
you know, or they, you know, sometimes they backdate or da-da-da-da-da.

737
00:51:38.090 --> 00:51:42.260
The FBI always goes off of X, Y, Z. I mean...

738
00:51:44.300 --> 00:51:48.199
It basically made it sound like, oh, tribal systems do

739
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:52.409
this inferior thing. And the FBI and all of the

740
00:51:52.489 --> 00:51:56.550
other police, law enforcement, all of the other departments. They

741
00:51:56.590 --> 00:52:01.170
do this other far superior thing, the more betterer. And

742
00:52:01.550 --> 00:52:05.219
so that explains it because they're inadequate and they're inferior.

743
00:52:05.469 --> 00:52:08.539
And I was like, I could believe that they might

744
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:12.980
have different systems. I could believe that they might not

745
00:52:13.320 --> 00:52:16.829
be identical in all of their practices. I don't like

746
00:52:16.889 --> 00:52:18.170
the way that this is framed.

747
00:52:18.349 --> 00:52:18.610
Yeah.

748
00:52:18.969 --> 00:52:21.289
And that's where it started to feel like, wait a second.

749
00:52:23.480 --> 00:52:27.409
Is this just like an AI overview? Because I was

750
00:52:27.469 --> 00:52:33.670
like not finding journalistic sources that explain this. And I'm like, wait.

751
00:52:36.809 --> 00:52:41.639
That's where it started to really feel racist. Seriously, though. Yeah.

752
00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.579
I was like, okay, so number one, you can't prove

753
00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:49.519
that this is actually what happened or what the source

754
00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:54.429
of the discrepancy is. Number two, it really does sound like,

755
00:52:55.630 --> 00:53:00.659
you bad, me good. Yeah. Like, yuck.

756
00:53:00.980 --> 00:53:03.159
Yeah. And then it, like, it doesn't mean that it's

757
00:53:03.699 --> 00:53:05.780
wrong or a bad way if they do it a

758
00:53:05.860 --> 00:53:06.650
different way. Yeah.

759
00:53:07.750 --> 00:53:11.389
I still want it explained, like, how it's. I really

760
00:53:11.409 --> 00:53:14.909
do want an explanation. Yeah. Different doesn't mean bad, but

761
00:53:14.969 --> 00:53:17.449
I still want to know like how. No, I would

762
00:53:17.489 --> 00:53:22.730
like to understand the process, the systems, the reasoning, and

763
00:53:22.789 --> 00:53:26.489
maybe that would totally like take that off the table

764
00:53:26.730 --> 00:53:30.909
and wouldn't be this like interesting detail of the case

765
00:53:30.949 --> 00:53:35.090
at all. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Despite

766
00:53:35.260 --> 00:53:40.550
all of this institutional progress, Bess's case illustrates a persistent

767
00:53:40.670 --> 00:53:46.880
and well-documented failure point. As of spring 2025, her case

768
00:53:46.929 --> 00:53:51.260
had not been entered into NAMIS, the National Missing and

769
00:53:51.429 --> 00:53:57.800
Unidentified Person System, the federal government's centralized clearinghouse intended to

770
00:53:57.940 --> 00:54:05.639
help connect missing person cases with unidentified remains across jurisdictions nationwide.

771
00:54:06.659 --> 00:54:09.280
I feel like that's something pretty important. Pretty fucking important.

772
00:54:09.300 --> 00:54:09.659
Yeah.

773
00:54:10.139 --> 00:54:12.760
You know what? Cookie for you. Thank you.

774
00:54:12.820 --> 00:54:13.639
Yeah.

775
00:54:14.860 --> 00:54:18.590
She was, however, listed in the Washington State Patrol's own

776
00:54:18.670 --> 00:54:23.269
missing persons database, which is something. It's not enough for

777
00:54:23.309 --> 00:54:28.590
me personally, but a national public radio analysis cited in

778
00:54:28.750 --> 00:54:35.329
Cascadia Daily News found that 65% of Washington State's missing

779
00:54:35.389 --> 00:54:41.690
people were not listed in NamUs at all. 65%? 65%.

780
00:54:41.690 --> 00:54:44.969
Oh my God. And I'm given to understand that that

781
00:54:45.110 --> 00:54:51.480
is of the overall, like across racial divide, all of

782
00:54:51.559 --> 00:54:55.260
the missing people. Wow. And fewer than half of the

783
00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:59.159
missing indigenous people listed in the Washington State Patrol's own

784
00:54:59.219 --> 00:55:03.739
database as of January 2025 appeared in the federal system.

785
00:55:04.530 --> 00:55:07.289
I don't understand why they're not just listed. They're missing.

786
00:55:07.590 --> 00:55:13.510
They need to be matched with remains, possibly. I'm sure

787
00:55:14.030 --> 00:55:16.809
that someone would like to tell us that it's about

788
00:55:17.309 --> 00:55:22.929
under-resourced police departments. And maybe that's true in some cases.

789
00:55:24.389 --> 00:55:29.519
I don't care. Do better. Be better. I'm going to say, obviously,

790
00:55:30.659 --> 00:55:36.429
defunding the police wouldn't help with entering more of this

791
00:55:36.690 --> 00:55:41.090
data into these systems right but you understand that that's

792
00:55:41.230 --> 00:55:45.519
why people want to do that right oh they want

793
00:55:45.539 --> 00:55:51.039
to defund the police because they are not serving their

794
00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:55.590
communities in the way that we would perhaps like right

795
00:55:55.849 --> 00:56:00.130
in some cases you know And that's just a minor

796
00:56:00.690 --> 00:56:04.010
concern compared to, you know, just killing people in the streets.

797
00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:11.000
So as of today, she's now in NamUs. MP number 155641.

798
00:56:10.980 --> 00:56:18.050
The page states she has dark brown hair, brown eyes,

799
00:56:18.300 --> 00:56:20.610
as well as a scar on her right arm and

800
00:56:20.650 --> 00:56:25.309
a tattoo that reads, best. Oh, she got her own

801
00:56:25.389 --> 00:56:27.760
name tattooed. I don't know why. I don't know why.

802
00:56:27.780 --> 00:56:32.340
I just love that so much. She loved herself. And

803
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:37.659
it's just B-E-S. Oh. What it doesn't quite capture is

804
00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:41.679
who she was. An accomplished beater who was nearly done

805
00:56:41.739 --> 00:56:46.099
making necklaces for each of her grandchildren. I hate you.

806
00:56:46.860 --> 00:56:49.940
I know. I was like, she beads too? She is me.

807
00:56:50.139 --> 00:56:55.829
And she has like unfinished... She had crafting to do, people.

808
00:56:59.769 --> 00:57:04.559
According to her daughter-in-law, Miranda Noland, she had almost all

809
00:57:04.579 --> 00:57:07.760
of them done, she said, and she was so excited

810
00:57:07.860 --> 00:57:09.860
because she was going to give them to them. I

811
00:57:09.860 --> 00:57:14.659
don't know why that makes me like so emotional. I mean,

812
00:57:14.739 --> 00:57:15.619
it's like the un.

813
00:57:17.099 --> 00:57:20.510
It's like this unfinished thing and that's like, I just

814
00:57:20.530 --> 00:57:24.219
feel like that's Kind of the theme, really, like with

815
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:30.019
this case. The roadside memorial near Bessalyn's home on the

816
00:57:30.059 --> 00:57:35.420
reservation still honors dozens of Lummi women and men lost

817
00:57:35.460 --> 00:57:39.139
to violence and disappearance. Her name is now among them.

818
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:44.269
Her daughter-in-law also said, we want justice for her because

819
00:57:44.949 --> 00:57:47.670
she is the one that is missing. She is the

820
00:57:47.769 --> 00:57:51.760
one who was cold. she is the one that's afraid.

821
00:57:52.579 --> 00:57:55.099
She is the one that doesn't know where she is.

822
00:57:56.619 --> 00:57:59.239
And that last part, she's the one that doesn't know

823
00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:04.280
where she is. Because I feel like, and I don't know, like,

824
00:58:04.940 --> 00:58:08.420
she didn't really expand on this, but like, assuming that

825
00:58:08.559 --> 00:58:11.460
she were just still missing and she were being held somewhere,

826
00:58:11.860 --> 00:58:16.949
like that, that last part of the statement would certainly

827
00:58:16.989 --> 00:58:19.489
make sense, right? Like, she doesn't know where she is. Like,

828
00:58:19.530 --> 00:58:25.269
she's being held. But if her fate is what her

829
00:58:25.369 --> 00:58:30.800
family and the tribal nation believes, I feel like that

830
00:58:30.860 --> 00:58:34.599
speaks to kind of like a spiritual confusion of like,

831
00:58:35.539 --> 00:58:40.019
she doesn't know where she is because this isn't how...

832
00:58:40.579 --> 00:58:43.059
this isn't how you're meant to go to the other side.

833
00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:45.320
I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm making more

834
00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:46.579
of that than what she meant.

835
00:58:46.860 --> 00:58:50.360
But I could see how it's like they lay people

836
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:54.909
to rest and probably is, you know, very like ceremonial way.

837
00:58:55.409 --> 00:58:59.909
Burial traditions are very important amongst a lot of indigenous tribes.

838
00:59:00.090 --> 00:59:02.230
And I just like, I don't know. That just struck

839
00:59:02.309 --> 00:59:05.150
me as like, she doesn't know where she is because

840
00:59:05.190 --> 00:59:08.349
she's not buried in the place. You know what I mean?

841
00:59:08.369 --> 00:59:11.139
I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I'm making more

842
00:59:11.179 --> 00:59:13.480
of that than what, like I said, than what she intended.

843
00:59:13.579 --> 00:59:17.119
But that just immediately struck me. And I just was like,

844
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:20.210
and she is the one who is cold. She literally

845
00:59:20.269 --> 00:59:23.849
went missing on a cold night. I just, it just

846
00:59:23.869 --> 00:59:27.610
got me in the feels. I'm going to use the

847
00:59:27.650 --> 00:59:33.420
dog tarot. Okay. Because she loved dogs. She loved dogs. Oh, God.

848
00:59:35.090 --> 00:59:37.489
I think she would like that. I think she would approve.

849
00:59:38.070 --> 00:59:40.090
I don't want to put words in Bess's mouth, but

850
00:59:40.230 --> 00:59:43.340
I really think, like, I'm confident she would approve of that.

851
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:47.360
I think she would be on board. Yeah. I still

852
00:59:47.380 --> 00:59:48.039
will for always.

853
00:59:48.800 --> 00:59:52.679
I will for always love that she has her own

854
00:59:52.739 --> 00:59:54.119
name tattooed.

855
00:59:54.440 --> 00:59:58.000
I don't know why. It's like independent. I don't know.

856
00:59:58.019 --> 01:00:04.239
I am me. I love myself. This is who I am.

857
01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:07.119
You have to see the photos of her. She is just...

858
01:00:07.719 --> 01:00:12.000
She's so pretty. And it wouldn't matter. She could be

859
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:17.409
the ugliest lady that ever lived. Right. But... It's heartbreaking

860
01:00:17.449 --> 01:00:20.719
when you see somebody that just like really does. I mean,

861
01:00:20.739 --> 01:00:24.719
it's so fucking stupid. But like when you see them

862
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:27.519
in a photo and you can just feel like the

863
01:00:27.880 --> 01:00:34.679
radiating warmth, it's like she lit up every room. But

864
01:00:34.699 --> 01:00:37.420
like for real, though. But like for real, though. Some

865
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:43.699
people actually do. Yeah. I'm just going to set it aside.

866
01:00:44.059 --> 01:00:48.159
It was literally the only card that didn't shuffle back in. Interesting.

867
01:00:48.300 --> 01:00:50.320
I'm going to just set it aside so that I...

868
01:00:50.809 --> 01:00:55.250
Just in case. Where do we feel like in the

869
01:00:55.269 --> 01:01:02.110
spread here? I mean, I'm feeling like B. Keyboard B, but... Okay.

870
01:01:02.219 --> 01:01:04.980
Are you feeling it? That's like in the direction of

871
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:07.079
where I was thinking. I was definitely on like the

872
01:01:07.139 --> 01:01:11.059
left-hand side. I was like, even like a little further

873
01:01:11.179 --> 01:01:14.840
over because B is like right here. Do what you feel. Well,

874
01:01:14.860 --> 01:01:18.139
maybe we split the difference. I feel like the answer

875
01:01:18.159 --> 01:01:21.980
is a lot of times to split the difference. Okay,

876
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:24.969
we drew this in reverse. Okay. Okay, I'm going to

877
01:01:25.010 --> 01:01:26.489
let you describe it.

878
01:01:26.510 --> 01:01:29.909
Okay, it is two of ones and it has a

879
01:01:29.969 --> 01:01:33.150
dog with like one of the inflatable dog collars around

880
01:01:33.230 --> 01:01:33.630
its neck.

881
01:01:34.710 --> 01:01:38.000
It's like a cone, but it's literally, it almost looks

882
01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:41.440
like they're wearing like one of those like Lifeguard rings.

883
01:01:41.579 --> 01:01:44.900
Like a life preserver ring. Could be. Yeah. They're not.

884
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:47.719
I mean, it's not. They make those for dogs so

885
01:01:47.739 --> 01:01:49.860
that they don't have to wear cones. Yeah. Because we

886
01:01:49.900 --> 01:01:52.050
have one. So they don't itch themselves. Yeah.

887
01:01:52.250 --> 01:01:54.489
But it's got a stick in its mouth and then

888
01:01:54.769 --> 01:01:58.090
the owner is like holding out another stick to the dog.

889
01:01:58.110 --> 01:02:04.090
Because one stick is never enough. Two. Did you want

890
01:02:04.130 --> 01:02:06.760
me to read this? Two. I was thinking that like

891
01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:10.440
there was two dogs left. Yeah, I want you to

892
01:02:10.500 --> 01:02:11.460
read that. Okay.

893
01:02:12.460 --> 01:02:15.440
Two sticks are seemingly better than one, but you only

894
01:02:15.500 --> 01:02:18.800
have one set of jaws. This card is all about

895
01:02:18.820 --> 01:02:22.510
making difficult decisions. It's the fork in the road, or

896
01:02:22.570 --> 01:02:25.710
rather the fork in the stick. And the stick the

897
01:02:25.789 --> 01:02:27.989
owner is holding out does have a fork in it.

898
01:02:28.849 --> 01:02:30.610
Reversed. You have a.

899
01:02:30.610 --> 01:02:34.190
Stick firmly in your teeth. Why gamble on that other stick?

900
01:02:34.730 --> 01:02:37.820
It could be a better stick or not. You're stricken

901
01:02:37.860 --> 01:02:41.630
with choice paralysis. Decide what you want to do and

902
01:02:42.570 --> 01:02:43.480
make peace with it.

903
01:02:44.219 --> 01:02:48.199
Okay, that's interesting. While you were reading that, I was

904
01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:54.739
listening and also skimming the reverse interpretation and I've already

905
01:02:55.260 --> 01:02:57.280
glommed on to some things.

906
01:02:57.619 --> 01:03:00.570
Okay, because yeah, this will be like the bigger book,

907
01:03:00.610 --> 01:03:03.090
the more expanded interpretation.

908
01:03:03.989 --> 01:03:09.070
Keywords are developing goals, involvement in a creative project, Taking

909
01:03:09.250 --> 01:03:14.170
Action and Choices. This card shows you taking action to

910
01:03:14.230 --> 01:03:18.880
accomplish something you feel passionately about, a creative project, a business,

911
01:03:19.019 --> 01:03:25.639
or an adventure. Finding missing people. Yeah, God willing. You

912
01:03:25.679 --> 01:03:28.670
may have to make a choice between two options or

913
01:03:28.710 --> 01:03:36.630
bring two factors together to achieve success. Okay. And I

914
01:03:36.650 --> 01:03:38.889
feel like I've used this word a hundred times today.

915
01:03:38.909 --> 01:03:43.170
I'm extrapolating, but I'm like this max of they're going

916
01:03:43.190 --> 01:03:46.949
to have to make a deal to get the information. Yeah,

917
01:03:47.510 --> 01:03:48.099
I could see that.

918
01:03:48.260 --> 01:03:50.820
It was reminding me of when they were searching and

919
01:03:50.840 --> 01:03:53.369
they had to make the choice of kind of shutting

920
01:03:53.429 --> 01:03:56.250
down the search in this area or to keep looking.

921
01:03:55.909 --> 01:03:59.820
Yeah that's such a good connection thank you look at

922
01:03:59.860 --> 01:04:02.599
you i love that i try like i feel like

923
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:06.599
sometimes i feel like a real dum-dum when we read

924
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:08.539
the tarot because i feel like i come up with

925
01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:13.340
very obvious connections what seems obvious to me and then

926
01:04:13.440 --> 01:04:15.699
you come up with something that i'm like oh i

927
01:04:15.780 --> 01:04:17.829
never would have thought of that i could have like

928
01:04:17.969 --> 01:04:20.590
read this a hundred times and never would have thought

929
01:04:20.630 --> 01:04:21.170
of that yeah.

930
01:04:23.309 --> 01:04:25.159
I just had a thought, too, about the dog, like,

931
01:04:25.219 --> 01:04:29.420
having the anti, you know, scratch collar on its neck.

932
01:04:29.440 --> 01:04:32.239
It's kind of like, it reminds me of how all

933
01:04:32.260 --> 01:04:35.159
of the, like, jurisdictions, like, you kind of have this

934
01:04:35.260 --> 01:04:36.019
thing that's, like.

935
01:04:36.059 --> 01:04:38.380
Around your neck. It's like a barrier. Like a barrier, yeah.

936
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:43.760
That's the word I was thinking of. Oh, wow. She

937
01:04:43.840 --> 01:04:47.730
is next level today. I brought my A game, guys. Sick.

938
01:04:48.710 --> 01:04:51.929
My tea game, my tarot game. I was like, my

939
01:04:51.949 --> 01:04:57.210
tea game. When the Two of Wands is reversed, it

940
01:04:57.230 --> 01:05:01.300
can indicate a delay or difficulty. I would say. Yeah.

941
01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:04.880
You may be in for a surprise that requires you

942
01:05:04.920 --> 01:05:08.760
to make changes. This one makes me want to cry. No.

943
01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:15.880
Perhaps someone you relied on or believed in disappoints you. Oh.

944
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:19.960
I think so. I mean, I feel like a lot

945
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:22.300
of people think so. Yeah, yeah.

946
01:05:22.320 --> 01:05:25.000
Or that could be to like the community, like you

947
01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:28.239
kind of are relying on your government to help out.

948
01:05:28.199 --> 01:05:31.260
And it's not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that can cut

949
01:05:31.380 --> 01:05:36.119
several different ways, I think. If you asked about money,

950
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:39.800
this card may mean financing for a project gets delayed

951
01:05:39.980 --> 01:05:43.000
or an investment doesn't produce the return you'd hoped for.

952
01:05:43.940 --> 01:05:48.760
Use caution in financial partnerships or contracts. Well, they weren't married.

953
01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:52.699
Brings me back to the very beginning with like the treaties. Yeah.

954
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:57.349
Oh my God. The trickies. The trickies. In a reading

955
01:05:57.389 --> 01:06:00.230
about work, the reverse too can mean you'll have to

956
01:06:00.269 --> 01:06:03.610
work harder than you'd expect to bring your dream to fruition.

957
01:06:04.269 --> 01:06:07.369
Sometimes it indicates you've gotten off track and need to

958
01:06:07.429 --> 01:06:11.360
take action to control a situation. You may have to

959
01:06:11.389 --> 01:06:14.940
rein in a colleague or contractor or another person may

960
01:06:14.980 --> 01:06:18.139
not hold up his or her end. I feel like,

961
01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:21.900
does that just speak to like the jurisdictional and like

962
01:06:21.980 --> 01:06:28.929
multi-agency like cluster? Yeah, I think so. In a reading

963
01:06:28.989 --> 01:06:33.409
about love, this card advises being upfront and honest with

964
01:06:33.429 --> 01:06:37.670
your partner. If the relationship is rocky, you may have

965
01:06:37.710 --> 01:06:41.510
to make adjustments, especially if you've been too dependent or

966
01:06:41.630 --> 01:06:45.610
detached in the past. Okay. Okay. Let's see what this

967
01:06:45.659 --> 01:06:47.449
other one was. It was kind of our— The one

968
01:06:47.469 --> 01:06:50.610
that didn't shuffle. Okay, you might have to look at

969
01:06:50.650 --> 01:06:53.230
this one for me. It was also in reverse, and

970
01:06:53.269 --> 01:06:56.550
it's a two, and it literally has two dogs on it. Oh,

971
01:06:56.610 --> 01:07:00.190
my gosh. And so now we have three dogs total

972
01:07:00.269 --> 01:07:05.289
in our tarot cards. That's wild. Yeah. What are the leashes?

973
01:07:05.769 --> 01:07:08.630
What's the suit for that? I don't know yet. I'm

974
01:07:08.670 --> 01:07:13.750
going to— Get there. Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. I'm rushing you.

975
01:07:13.889 --> 01:07:16.039
No, I was just like looking at these two cards

976
01:07:16.119 --> 01:07:19.500
together and it's like maybe the two dogs who are

977
01:07:19.539 --> 01:07:22.840
left behind, they're like still together. They're calmer with their

978
01:07:22.900 --> 01:07:25.000
family because that's what's on the card. It's like two

979
01:07:25.019 --> 01:07:25.679
dogs snuggling.

980
01:07:25.699 --> 01:07:28.650
Those leashes kind of wrapped around them almost look like

981
01:07:28.690 --> 01:07:29.710
a little figure eight.

982
01:07:29.750 --> 01:07:34.489
Yeah. And then this dog has like a choice to make.

983
01:07:34.570 --> 01:07:37.500
Like it could be maybe protective or.

984
01:07:38.300 --> 01:07:41.019
And what's crazy about it is I do remember I

985
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:43.710
came across a picture of at least, I don't know

986
01:07:43.730 --> 01:07:47.230
if it, I can't remember 100% for sure if it

987
01:07:47.269 --> 01:07:49.269
had all three of the dogs in it, but they

988
01:07:49.369 --> 01:07:53.949
looked very similar. And I'm reminded of that because all

989
01:07:54.050 --> 01:07:56.449
three of these dogs in the two tarot cards look

990
01:07:56.489 --> 01:08:01.659
very similar. And it's all different sizes, shapes, colors of

991
01:08:01.699 --> 01:08:05.539
dogs in this deck. Yes. Okay. So it is two

992
01:08:05.579 --> 01:08:08.969
of cups. Yes. Shut the fuck up. Two of cups

993
01:08:09.030 --> 01:08:14.530
and it's two, two. Interesting. Yeah. Two of cups. Okay.

994
01:08:14.690 --> 01:08:18.729
I'm going to, I will prepare. I'll read the, from

995
01:08:18.770 --> 01:08:23.020
the little doggy book. Okay. What's the only thing better

996
01:08:23.060 --> 01:08:27.800
than one dog? Two. Caitlin would say that. I feel

997
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:32.939
like Bess would agree. Like three, four, five. Honestly, I

998
01:08:32.979 --> 01:08:37.630
would lobby for three. Yeah. I think that would end in,

999
01:08:38.250 --> 01:08:39.449
I think that would end my marriage.

1000
01:08:42.520 --> 01:08:46.659
This card signifies a union, a romantic connection, friendship, or

1001
01:08:46.779 --> 01:08:51.880
business partnership. And then, so reversed, things are off kilter.

1002
01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:55.550
Maybe one dog is kept on a shorter leash. Maybe

1003
01:08:55.689 --> 01:08:58.810
one dog regularly runs off and leaves the other one behind.

1004
01:08:58.829 --> 01:09:01.859
Okay. interesting. Yeah.

1005
01:09:02.619 --> 01:09:05.420
When a dog gives more affection than she gets, it

1006
01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:10.800
creates resentment and jeopardizes any chance for genuine connection. Take

1007
01:09:10.840 --> 01:09:13.270
a step back, make sure your own cup is full,

1008
01:09:13.550 --> 01:09:16.170
then start seeking balance in your relationships.

1009
01:09:16.750 --> 01:09:19.470
Oh my God. It just makes me think of like

1010
01:09:19.529 --> 01:09:22.329
their relationship. It really does almost make me feel like

1011
01:09:22.369 --> 01:09:26.399
there was a fight. Yeah. But I don't think it

1012
01:09:26.460 --> 01:09:29.920
explains the walk. I don't think that was real. I

1013
01:09:29.939 --> 01:09:34.680
don't think so either. The walk was also at 2 a.m. Oh.

1014
01:09:35.479 --> 01:09:40.189
And we got two twos. Yeah. That's weird. You know

1015
01:09:40.229 --> 01:09:45.310
where else there's two twos? On a ballerina. Get it?

1016
01:09:45.729 --> 01:09:51.890
Two twos. This part. Marking the first anniversary of her disappearance.

1017
01:09:51.930 --> 01:09:57.260
So it was one year and one day. January 22nd, 2026.

1018
01:09:57.260 --> 01:10:04.000
The FBI's Seattle field office released an updated missing person

1019
01:10:04.039 --> 01:10:11.350
poster and announced the $ 10, 000 reward. Wow. Alrighty. When the

1020
01:10:11.390 --> 01:10:16.159
two of cups appears reversed, it suggests disharmony, and a

1021
01:10:16.220 --> 01:10:20.630
lack of cooperation. It may mean a partnership takes a

1022
01:10:20.649 --> 01:10:23.649
while to get going or that you run into obstacles.

1023
01:10:24.590 --> 01:10:29.529
In some cases, it indicates dwindling affection, inequality, or a

1024
01:10:29.649 --> 01:10:33.789
lack of supportiveness in a relationship. Picking up a vibe.

1025
01:10:33.810 --> 01:10:37.720
I don't know. It seems like a vibe. Not one

1026
01:10:37.880 --> 01:10:42.689
I like, but... In a reading about money, the reverse, too,

1027
01:10:42.789 --> 01:10:48.189
can signify an uneven investment of resources. It can also

1028
01:10:48.270 --> 01:10:53.340
represent complications or a delay in receiving money, especially from

1029
01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:59.279
a joint venture, trust, divorce settlement, or legacy. That's interesting.

1030
01:10:59.479 --> 01:11:02.600
They weren't married, but the fact that it names, like

1031
01:11:02.619 --> 01:11:07.279
it specifically says divorce settlement, I was like, hmm, well.

1032
01:11:08.229 --> 01:11:10.890
If the reading is about your job, this card may

1033
01:11:10.930 --> 01:11:13.890
mean you don't feel a business partner is pulling his

1034
01:11:13.949 --> 01:11:17.699
or her weight or you don't get the support you desire.

1035
01:11:18.199 --> 01:11:20.760
It can also point to a lack of cooperation in

1036
01:11:20.779 --> 01:11:26.579
your workplace. This is... I mean, it's more of the

1037
01:11:26.640 --> 01:11:29.800
same on the relationship front with like the two cards,

1038
01:11:29.859 --> 01:11:33.479
I feel like. In a reading about love, the reverse

1039
01:11:33.479 --> 01:11:38.850
2 sometimes represents a secret liaison... Or it may point

1040
01:11:38.890 --> 01:11:45.119
to a period of disharmony or cooling affection. Yeah. Cooling. Oh,

1041
01:11:45.779 --> 01:11:50.899
that's interesting. Perhaps there's a lack of balance or equality

1042
01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:53.350
in a relationship. Interesting.

1043
01:11:53.369 --> 01:11:56.609
Yeah, I feel like he, no, like this is totally

1044
01:11:56.689 --> 01:12:00.970
just speculation just based on what I, the information I

1045
01:12:01.010 --> 01:12:05.260
have about Bess. It's probably like she probably didn't take

1046
01:12:05.300 --> 01:12:08.479
no shit. You know, I have to imagine.

1047
01:12:08.500 --> 01:12:11.060
I can imagine. And you know what? If a man

1048
01:12:11.079 --> 01:12:16.300
didn't like that, what may happen. And sometimes, even the

1049
01:12:16.340 --> 01:12:18.979
best of us ladies, we take some shit that we

1050
01:12:19.020 --> 01:12:25.029
really shouldn't. And that's unfortunate. But I don't judge. At

1051
01:12:25.050 --> 01:12:29.010
least I endeavor not to judge the ladies for that.

1052
01:12:29.029 --> 01:12:33.289
That is, you know, that should be laying down. Squarely

1053
01:12:33.390 --> 01:12:37.430
at the feet of the shitty, shitty partner. The shit layer.

1054
01:12:37.810 --> 01:12:41.529
The shit layer. Aw, look at that. He laid another shit.

1055
01:12:43.449 --> 01:12:47.229
That felt good to me. All right. Should we say

1056
01:12:47.270 --> 01:12:50.729
the thing? Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Have a creepy

1057
01:12:50.850 --> 01:12:56.649
ass day. We'll see you next Thursday. Not you, Bowman.

1058
01:12:56.909 --> 01:12:59.189
I mean, I really don't have anything all that funny

1059
01:12:59.250 --> 01:13:00.430
to say. Just not you.

1060
01:13:01.149 --> 01:13:04.939
Just if you know anything, if you happen to come

1061
01:13:04.989 --> 01:13:09.960
across this and you know this area and what's going on,

1062
01:13:10.180 --> 01:13:11.779
just let somebody know.

1063
01:13:12.359 --> 01:13:16.020
Yeah. There's still a reward, right? There is. Yeah. The

1064
01:13:16.039 --> 01:13:18.979
reward is actually like, I mean, this case is not

1065
01:13:19.020 --> 01:13:21.380
very old, but the reward is pretty new.

1066
01:13:21.399 --> 01:13:21.460
So.

1067
01:13:22.479 --> 01:13:25.699
Yeah. Still up for grabs. It shouldn't take that. But,

1068
01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:28.520
you know, if that's what gets you, if that's what

1069
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:29.359
gets you there.

1070
01:13:29.380 --> 01:13:29.460
Yeah.

1071
01:13:30.340 --> 01:13:33.569
See something, say something. I was literally sitting here like

1072
01:13:33.750 --> 01:13:37.380
it's running in a loop in my brain. See something,

1073
01:13:37.439 --> 01:13:37.899
say something.