The Wisdom Light Murder: Unraveling the Oak Grove Jane Doe

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Anna was arrested after the incident, but she was not to be easily silenced, which

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is so annoying these hysterical women.

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"Oh, keep your mouth shut."

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"Mmm, far from it, she sued for alienation of affections."

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"Whew, wow."

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The scandal rocked the Portland area, particularly when Anna won her case.

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"Hi, Cassie."

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"Hi, Caitlyn."

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"Hi, creepy people."

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"Hello!"

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"Hello!"

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"This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all

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things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.

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The PNW.

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"If you're nasty."

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"Which we assume you are, because here you are, because we are."

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"Yeah, there you go.

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You're here.

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That's that."

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"We also do a terror reading at the end of every episode for just a little bit of deeper

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insight into whatever we're talking about for that day, and have a little fun.

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What do we call it?

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Why am I blanking all of a sudden immediately when we start?

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"I don't know."

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“A palette cleanser."

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"Oh, yes.

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I have no idea."

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Even though we end up talking about whatever was in the case, I still feel like it's a little

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bit of a happy ending for something that might not have such a happy ending.

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Want to kill in the episodes?

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"Oh, yeah, because all of yours are so happy.

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The lampras are happy.

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They're wide teeth grin.

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Is that a thing?

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Wide teeth grin?

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That's not a thing."

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"There's no other way to describe it."

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Wide teeth.

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Yeah.

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They're wide toothy grin.

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"Yeah, me, that's what I was thinking.

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Toothy."

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"Toothy."

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"It is toothy, which is not okay."

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"I'm going to bring it up every episode from now until the end of time."

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"Okay, great.

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I can't stop talking about it."

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"Love that for us."

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"Oh boy."

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"Okay."

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"All right, I'll shut up."

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"Well, I feel like you were talking about in the tarot portion of that episode about how,

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you know, we're just going to try to keep it like sort of Christmassy and maybe lighter.

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And that's a lie because..."

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"Someone didn't get the memo."

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"Yeah."

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"Okay, not much of a sagoo into this, but..."

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"I can keep stalling if you want me to."

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"No, I think it's better.

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We just ripped the bandaid.

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Okay.

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All right.

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"All right, our case today is as I have foretold, it's not bright and cheery."

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"I'm from Brittany."

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"I need to kind of go with Christmas.

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I mean, not everything is light and cherry for everybody, obviously.

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So..."

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"Yeah.

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And see, that's what I was trying to do with this here."

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"I've seen a balance, new to represent all facets of life."

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"You know?"

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"This is definitely a facet of life, so here we go."

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In Oak Grove, Oregon, a suburb of Portland, so named for the many oak trees in the area.

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"Oh, yes."

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Something very unusual started happening in 1946.

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"That was a long time ago."

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"Yeah.

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Remember how we sort of talked about that like World War II is my Roman Empire?"

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"Yeah."

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"Yeah."

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"I think maybe that was just kind of rolling around in the back of my brain space because 1946

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is like the year after the war officially ended."

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"Alaska wasn't even a state, yeah."

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"That's true."

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"Yeah, we just learned that again. Body parts began surfacing over a series of months."

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"Where's your mug that says that'll escalated it quickly?"

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"That escalated quickly."

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"Yeah."

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"Oh."

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"It's pretty on brand for today."

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"It really is."

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"Yeah."

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"Thanks, Andrea."

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"Yeah, thank you."

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The first of which was found near the wisdom light mortgage on April 12 in a whirling

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eddie.

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A group of people stumbled upon the torso of a white female as they walked along the shoreline

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of the Willamette.

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"What's a whirling neddie?"

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"whirling eddie."

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"Yeah, that's what I meant."

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"I think I have a little bit of a section in my notes to kind of cover that."

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"Like I want to think about that and not the other thing that you said that's fair."

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"Yeah, that's fair."

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"Just a torso is terrifying."

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"Yeah."

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"It's all terrifying, but."

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"It's pretty."

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"Yeah, I'd like to tell you that it gets better."

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"I'm gonna give so much work."

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"It reminds me of the movie 13 Ghosts because there's a ghost and that one that's like called

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the torso and it's like just a woman's torso like wrapped in plastic."

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"Oh."

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"Okay."

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"Well."

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"It's like a walking terrifying."

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"Yeah, that sounds terrible.

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That's also interesting that you made that connection."

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"Oh, okay."

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"I'll just get into it and then you'll see."

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"Okay."

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"It was wrapped in burlap feedbacks and it was clear it had been weighted down by window

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sash weights that had been attached to the package."

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"Window sash weights."

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"Mm-hmm."

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"Okay."

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"Yeah, I'm not gonna really get into that."

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"But I can kind of just all-timey figure out what that means."

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"Yeah."

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"It's interesting, interesting choice."

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"Yeah, it is a choice.

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There's a lot of choice choices."

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"Yeah."

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"There were multiple articles of women's clothing found at the same time."

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Because of the location of the initial discovery, this case is sometimes referred to as the

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"Wisdom Light Murder."

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"Well, wisdom light sounds good."

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"Yeah, it does.

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Yeah."

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"The next day, two arms and a thigh were discovered."

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"Sorry."

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"Okay."

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"They were also wrapped in a similar manner."

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This was confusing to make sense of in my research and I couldn't figure out why the

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reporting about the second set of remains felt a little bit murky, but it's because initially

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the limbs that had surfaced were misidentified.

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So I kept reading articles that described various limbs being found in the second discovery.

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Some of them would say it was like two arms and a thigh.

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Some of them would say other limb, various combinations.

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Anyway, all of that is to say that initially the reporting was not completely accurate.

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"Okay."

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"I suppose depending on how the body is dismembered, it makes sense that it might require further

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examination to accurately determine the parts of the body."

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Because it's like, it's just a section and without more context.

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Like an arm maybe could look like a leg or vice versa.

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"We're like, yeah, thigh, just a thigh."

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"Yeah."

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"Yeah."

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"I know."

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"The additional body parts were recovered about six miles away from the area where the initial

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discovery of the torso was."

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This time it was a group of five men out on a tugboat that provided a tip that led to

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the discovery.

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"Okay."

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"It is wild to me to see their full legal names imprint, along with actually many others

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who made the horrifying discoveries in the case.

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I just feel like these days, I think oftentimes people tend to be a bit more cautious about

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being tied to a story like this.

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Even if they've, of course, done nothing wrong, it's just like putting your name out there

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in connection with something that's like in the news.

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I just think like, I mean, that can draw people to you that you maybe don't want drawn to

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you.

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But they literally printed like the full names of like all of these different people

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associated with the case.

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"Wow."

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In terms of the discovery, I should say.

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I feel like now, too, you never know, like what kind of conspiracy theory of some podcaster

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is going to come up with to like try to tie you to the code.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Just putting your name out there in relation to a true crime story can bring so much

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undue scrutiny upon literally anyone.

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So that was kind of wild.

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There was like the old timeliness of it all.

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Apparently they had seen the package about 30 days prior initially.

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It wasn't until they heard about the torso being recovered nearby by some fisherman that

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they decided to reach out to authorities.

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So they saw this package that would later be recovered and was determined to be human

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remains and they didn't make the connection that like this is something we should look

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into or like have like reported to the authorities until somebody else found that initial set

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of remains.

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Oh, I know.

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Did they just leave it there?

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Yeah, I mean, they just were like, oh, it's just basically, you know, trash or, you know,

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something that's been tossed.

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Oh, I thought it was a package.

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Of some sort.

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Yeah.

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I know.

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Isn't that?

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That just is so oaky.

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Yeah.

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Like what's in the box?

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What's in the exactly?

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Oh, my God.

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In an article published by the Oregon Statesman on April 14, 1946, it was said that the sheriff

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intended to begin dragging the river.

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He had apparently indicated some level of frustration already in the case saying, we're

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kind of stymied.

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So notably, he also shared that the hands had been removed from the arms.

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Oh, so I think that's a detail that could have also led to some of the confusion about

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what parts of the victim exactly had been recovered.

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Yeah.

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Because again, like if there's not like a foot or a hand, you know what I mean?

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It's like as a layman and probably someone who's not like, you know, if you discover this,

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you're not like inspecting the shit.

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Yeah.

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To see what it is.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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You're just like, oh my God, that's part of a human body and like trying to do everything

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you can to put that probably out of your mind.

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Yeah.

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So I think that's maybe part of it.

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By July of 1946, a second lie was found.

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This time closer to Oregon City.

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Well clothing items were also found in the Clackamas River that were believed may have

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belonged to the Jane Doe slowly emerging piece by piece, which is both literal and sort

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of obviously it's a curative.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I mean, for anyone that's not local and I feel like this is something that could be

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confusing like the Clackamas and the Willamette are two separate bodies of water.

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So it might seem like why would they connect to these?

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That's what I was thinking.

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Yeah.

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But they do technically have a place where they intersect and where like things could kind

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of float from one to the other.

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Okay.

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Given kind of like weather patterns and like the flow of water, it did sort of help them

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to determine like, oh, this kind of the pathway.

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I just, it's so, I don't know, it really freaks me out to think about that.

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That's just something that's like in this body of water where obviously people are discovering

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these things like just out on a morning walk or like out on their fishing boat like.

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It's still interesting though that they just, they connected just clothing back to the

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other remains.

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It's like how many pieces of clothing are like in all of the rivers, you know?

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Yeah.

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Well, and I would think probably at any given time there's, you know, if you're finding

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part of like a shirt like that's wrapping up like one of the pieces of remains and then

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what appears to be like maybe the other half of the shirt.

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That sort of thing.

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Also, I would think in 1946.

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Really a lot less things just like popping up out of the river in general.

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A lot less pollution.

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Yeah.

257
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:11,440
Yeah, I mean, just speaking super broadly, like just really over generalizing here, but

258
00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,680
October 1946.

259
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:19,640
Finally, the victim's head was recovered.

260
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,000
No, I mean, I'm glad it was recovered.

261
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:30,160
Found near the bank of the Willamette by Mr. and Mrs. Roy Clutter of Oak Grove reportedly

262
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,000
without the deceased's eyes.

263
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:39,360
I mean, you have to think about though, like the initial discovery dates back like several

264
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:40,360
months.

265
00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:41,360
Yeah.

266
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,440
So even water still is it still found in water?

267
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:46,520
We're going to get to that.

268
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,160
It was found near the bank of the Willamette, but we're going to get to because it is really

269
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,480
interesting.

270
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:59,440
You would expect some of these remains to have had like different levels of sort of decomposition

271
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:00,680
or deterioration.

272
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:01,680
Yeah.

273
00:14:01,680 --> 00:14:08,640
So that also is something else that like kind of informs us about like what are the conditions

274
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,720
of how this body is being disposed of and you know, what maybe what else does that tell

275
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,360
us about the case?

276
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,680
Fortunately, or unfortunately.

277
00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:22,400
I have my notes, which is only about the most ghoulish and sinister way I could imagine

278
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,600
making the discovery to be honest.

279
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:25,600
Yeah.

280
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,200
Holds true.

281
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:33,200
It appeared to be wrapped in pieces of a tan shirt and had also been weighed down by

282
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,440
window sash weights.

283
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:41,160
So somebody's window sash is just out there blowing in the wind.

284
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,160
Yeah.

285
00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,720
I mean, if the indoors is windy, I don't know.

286
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,240
Sashes are on the inside, right?

287
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,840
I presume so.

288
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,840
Yes.

289
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:56,040
And this is like presumably like the same body parts because they're found in the same manner,

290
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,040
right?

291
00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:00,360
Like they just automatically know that it's connected.

292
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:09,360
I think it's tricky because without obviously they're not able to identify, you know, by DNA

293
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,040
that this is the same person.

294
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:20,240
I think it goes back to sort of the old timeliness of it all that we don't have like in 1946.

295
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:30,600
Presumably, we don't have multiple dismembered bodies that are popping up in the Willamette.

296
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:38,280
I think it's a fair question, depending on the city and that period of time.

297
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:43,200
I would think like clearly the same person did it not necessarily that it, I mean, it could

298
00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,680
be a different person's body parts.

299
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:49,880
I do think that's, I think that's fair.

300
00:15:49,880 --> 00:16:01,360
I, I would argue that probably because we are not finding the complete body of anyone,

301
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:08,000
victim or victims, I think it's reasonable enough for them to have assumed that probably

302
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:16,000
this is the same victim, but I do think that is also, it's indicative of the time where

303
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:23,400
nobody understood the concept or was familiar with the term like serial killer.

304
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:24,400
Right.

305
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,520
So I think that's a really good point.

306
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:33,360
I didn't really directly address that in my notes because I think so much of the kind

307
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:40,320
of conversation around this case is just based on the assumption that yes, it's all the

308
00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,160
same body, but I think that's actually, I mean, it's valid to kind of question that.

309
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:46,160
Yeah.

310
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,160
I thought so.

311
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,160
Yeah.

312
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,840
I mean, no, it's, it's fair.

313
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:56,040
I think coming at it from a totally different lens in a modern day, like those are the types

314
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:00,400
of things that it's like you have to kind of consider.

315
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,320
I don't know the will ever know.

316
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:12,000
Oh, the head was also found in close proximity to where the torso had been located roughly

317
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,240
six miles away from the surely now infamous whirling Eddie.

318
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:24,520
It's basically just kind of a weird current of water that it looks like a little like underwater

319
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:25,920
cyclone a little bit.

320
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:26,920
Okay.

321
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:27,920
Yeah.

322
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:28,920
That's all it is.

323
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,920
I like that.

324
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:30,920
Yeah.

325
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:31,920
It's cute, but sweet.

326
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:32,920
Yeah.

327
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:33,920
Yeah.

328
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:42,880
In a different context, you know, maybe kind of whimsical, but, you know, I did try looking

329
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,800
to see if there's like a particular spot where we could like triangulate like, oh, where

330
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:48,800
is this?

331
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:53,160
You know, like is this whirling Eddie like is that something that like is it special?

332
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,160
Right.

333
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,720
Is that is that a constant?

334
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:56,720
Does that change?

335
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:57,720
Like, where is it?

336
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,520
Can I go visit it?

337
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,960
I didn't have a lot of success there.

338
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,520
Isn't there some sort of something in the water that like swirls and like goes down

339
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,080
and they don't like know where it goes to?

340
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,720
I'm probably not asking the right person.

341
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:12,720
I don't know.

342
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:13,720
Oh, yeah.

343
00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,200
I think it's some sort of like something somewhere.

344
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,200
I'll look into it.

345
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,200
Okay.

346
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,200
Maybe report that.

347
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,720
Y'all report back to you guys.

348
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,200
Oh my God.

349
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,560
The head also revealed some more identifying features of the Jane Doe.

350
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:34,640
The deceased had an upper denture, but still had her mendicular or lower jaw, which told

351
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,200
investigators a little bit more about her background.

352
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:45,480
So the lower jaw where she still had her, you know, natural dentition, there was a not

353
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:49,080
an insignificant amount of other dental work.

354
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,760
So this is someone who's had like a lot of dental work.

355
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:53,760
Okay.

356
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:58,880
Upper denture, she has dental work that's been done in the lower jaw.

357
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:06,120
In certain time periods and geographic areas, this of course can be like a really, it's

358
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:07,400
kind of low hanging fruit.

359
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:13,000
It's an indicator of the decedent socio economic status.

360
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,000
Let's go say them of that money.

361
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:16,000
Right.

362
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,200
That's sort of the implication.

363
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:22,280
Mainly that they were able to afford dental work, which certainly was far less common

364
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,400
at this point in history.

365
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:32,360
And you know, keep in mind that 1946 is roughly 80 years ago, dental technology and education

366
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:36,640
along with social programs have come like a very long way.

367
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:37,640
Thankfully.

368
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:44,240
So now to find somebody who has dental work in their mouth may not be like, ah, the, you

369
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,760
know, the smoking gun, as it were.

370
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:50,960
But at that point, it's like not everybody can afford to have dental work done.

371
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:51,960
Right.

372
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,360
But now, I mean, yeah, very much so.

373
00:19:55,360 --> 00:20:01,040
But just in terms of like the, you know, the particular type of treatment and things like

374
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,760
that can be very informative to investigators.

375
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:12,080
The corner believed she may have been dismembered with a saw, a gruesome and grueling task.

376
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:19,520
It was noted it was a pretty neat job, if not exactly expert or overly precise.

377
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,520
Okay.

378
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:29,920
So basically our take away sort of in that respect is that this is somebody, somebody who's

379
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:34,800
not necessarily like, you know, a surgeon, like a butcher could be.

380
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,040
Yeah, could be.

381
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:42,240
I would think a butcher probably would be more precise, but a butcher also isn't necessarily

382
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,200
doing what he's doing for a specific aesthetic.

383
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,200
Right.

384
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,040
So it's hard to say.

385
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:54,760
And again, it's one of those details that it's like it's slowly helping them to kind of

386
00:20:54,760 --> 00:21:03,520
form opinions or, you know, figure out like what's the profile of this person potentially?

387
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:09,560
It was determined after her head was recovered that her cause of death was blunt force trauma.

388
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:10,560
Hmm.

389
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,360
Initially the corner thought the Jane Doe may have been in her teens or early 20s.

390
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,480
However, the estimate was later amended stating that it was believed the victim's age to be

391
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,840
closer to middle age somewhere in her 40s or 50s.

392
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:25,840
Right.

393
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,560
She had like a full denture.

394
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:28,560
Yeah.

395
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,320
So you can see where like certain parts of the body really do help.

396
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,200
Just to kind of get a clearer picture of who the victim was.

397
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,200
It's like you're getting more information about the victim and her potential killer kind

398
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,840
of at the same time.

399
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:52,240
The body was believed to have been in the water for 36 hours, which is interesting.

400
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,200
Interesting because it is a little bit murky in terms of like, okay, which parts of the

401
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,200
body are we talking about?

402
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,480
They're all discovered at different points of time.

403
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,480
Right.

404
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:08,000
So there is a lot of, I feel like sort of conversation around, does that mean these parts were being

405
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,920
released like one at a time?

406
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,360
Oh.

407
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:26,480
I don't feel like I have enough information to really be able to say like concretely.

408
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:33,320
It seems reasonable to assume that, you know, if they're being discovered months apart,

409
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:39,800
probably they're not all being released at the same time, but it's, I'm certainly not

410
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:45,240
going to say one way or the other conclusively.

411
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:46,240
Yeah.

412
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,240
I'll say that.

413
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:53,760
Because like if it's been in for 36 hours, versus months, that's going to be, yeah.

414
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:59,000
But I mean, also, I think a lot of determinations would be difficult to make with only individual

415
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,000
pieces of the body being discovered over a series of months.

416
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,600
I mean, particularly with the limitations of forensic science at the time.

417
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,600
So I feel a little bit skeptical about some of those things like the 36 hour time window

418
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:23,960
in particular, because I'm like, I just don't know that I agree or can feel confident that

419
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:25,840
they can really back that.

420
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,520
They can back that and say like that's accurate.

421
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,200
And we know this based on XYZ, if that makes sense.

422
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:40,560
It would be interesting to, if they were found like 36 hours after being like disposed of,

423
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,480
he would have to, or I say, he, the person he is doing the disposing, which is probably

424
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:50,280
a man and probably not a bear, would have to say.

425
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,080
It's like does he want them to be found?

426
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:59,080
Because if you're trying to hide a body, the likelihood of it being found 36 hours later.

427
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,760
Yeah, I mean, if you're releasing them into a river and presumably they're weighed down

428
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,760
as well.

429
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,640
Yeah, I don't know.

430
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:14,640
I would be really interested to hear sort of a more modern take on like the psychology behind,

431
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:22,840
you know, maybe what they believe the killer's motives or like what their method was, what

432
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,080
they were thinking.

433
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,680
It's so hard to say.

434
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:26,680
I know.

435
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,680
It's so hard to say.

436
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,360
It only gets harder.

437
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:37,320
Following the autopsy performed by Dr. Warren C. Hunter, which, that name, perfect.

438
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:45,000
The late growth, Jane Doe, it was believed had been roughly 5, 2 to 5, 4, 140 to 150 pounds

439
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:52,760
with graying brown hair, which is another interesting sort of aspect of the case.

440
00:24:52,760 --> 00:25:01,000
Most of these were, the remains were recovered in various states of, yeah, I think you can

441
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,160
imagine.

442
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,160
It's not great.

443
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:10,120
So people did wonder how do we know the specificity of the hair color, the hair color and that it's

444
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:15,160
graying, but it's believed that there was probably some hair in the bundle.

445
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,840
I'll leave it at that.

446
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,920
We don't have to get too gruesome.

447
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:25,760
He was a pathologist himself, but this next bit it seems to have come from another specialist

448
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,920
examination.

449
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,880
In any case, it was also reportedly believed that a torch may have been used on her in some

450
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:40,840
form of torture, though it's not exactly clear from the available source materials, how

451
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,560
that conclusion was drawn exactly.

452
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:51,320
And it doesn't really appear in many of the news stories from the time that I could find.

453
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,640
So it's something that I came across in all of the different things that I read and listened

454
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,120
to and something that was reported on and that supposedly that was one of the conclusions

455
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:11,280
that he drew, no real explanation that I could find as to why.

456
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,000
So that's sort of mystifying.

457
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000
How would they know why?

458
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,840
No, I'm saying why do they think that?

459
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,840
Oh, okay.

460
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,840
I was like, yeah, how would they know why he did that?

461
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,440
They don't know who did it.

462
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Yeah, yeah.

463
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,440
I see.

464
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,200
No, that's disturbing.

465
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,680
It's pretty awful.

466
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:30,680
Yeah.

467
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,160
And we've heard about that in other cases that are just equally brutal.

468
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:45,380
So from a Medford Mail Tribune article dated April 14, 1946, one crank was arrested in a

469
00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:51,920
pay booth as he telephoned police that he knew all about the mystery.

470
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,280
But state police said he was merely seeking publicity.

471
00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:02,000
And I only included this just so that I could point out that people have apparently always

472
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,120
and probably always will be gross.

473
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:06,120
Yes.

474
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:07,800
What the fuck is a crank?

475
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,360
I think they were, it's like a term of the era kind of referring to someone who's like

476
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:15,120
Christmas with the cranks.

477
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:17,120
Yeah, just like that.

478
00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:18,120
Christmas.

479
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:19,120
Yeah.

480
00:27:19,120 --> 00:27:20,120
Okay, we're done.

481
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:21,120
Bye.

482
00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:22,120
Okay.

483
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:29,440
In 2004, the case was reopened, but it's very much considered ice cold at this point.

484
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,440
In the year since the Oak Grove Jane Doe was discovered, evidence in this case has also

485
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:40,520
been lost, making it even more difficult to continue to investigate.

486
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:41,520
In the 40s?

487
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,360
Yeah, the 40s of it all.

488
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:49,960
According to authorities, it's unknown what's happened to the victims clothing, the sash

489
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,760
weights, that weighted the body down, or what happened to her remains.

490
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,760
No.

491
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:03,600
Oh, I know things happen, especially with records that are this dated, but how exactly

492
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:12,000
does one lose a jawbone and maxillary denture asking for a friend?

493
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,600
Well, and all the other pieces.

494
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,600
Yeah.

495
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:16,600
Yeah.

496
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:21,040
Like she hasn't been there enough that you can't even just like keep the body that you have

497
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,040
together.

498
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,040
Mm-hmm.

499
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,040
Yeah.

500
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:29,360
And I don't know what's better having her sit in a police station drawer or I mean, it's

501
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:36,040
not just a drawer, but yeah, asking for a friend.

502
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,120
I guess we'll call her Jane.

503
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:44,360
It has a much nicer ring than case numbers, four, six, dash, two, two, six, oh three, and six,

504
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,160
eight, dash, eight, oh seven, seven.

505
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,080
There are a number of cases that people have speculated over the years might be related

506
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:59,000
or might in fact be the Lake Grove Jane Doe.

507
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,400
There's actually several that I'm not even going to go into.

508
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,000
There are a number of other conspiracy theories out there.

509
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,280
I just think, well, I'm just going to get into it.

510
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,760
And I'll let you figure out why I think this one is worth talking about.

511
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,360
I want a full conspiracy report on Patreon.

512
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360
Okay.

513
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Perhaps she was the victim of an unknown serial killer.

514
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,200
It would be like one of the first, right?

515
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,800
I, well, not really.

516
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Not really.

517
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,840
They just didn't know the term.

518
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:33,840
Jack the Ripper.

519
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,840
Oh yeah.

520
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,640
You know, yeah.

521
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:41,400
I didn't dig terribly deep on this one because it seems like it's not the most popular theory

522
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,520
and I have to imagine that's for good reason.

523
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:53,520
Also, I found another that true or not is a far more intriguing avenue to explore.

524
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,400
So let's talk about Anna.

525
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,520
Okay.

526
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:04,480
Anna Schrader, a Portland woman that worked as a police informant while also carrying on

527
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,880
an affair with a married police officer.

528
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,880
Oh shit.

529
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,400
Oh shit is correct.

530
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,320
William Brooening went missing in 1946.

531
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,680
Historical rumor has it that when he tried to call off the affair after tiring Ivana,

532
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:28,960
hounding him to leave his wife, there was a physical altercation where a gun was involved.

533
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Who had the gun?

534
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:38,440
In any case, Anna walked away from their violent encounter with a couple of broken ribs.

535
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:44,480
And while that might be enough to make you suspicious, it's this next part that really

536
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,200
makes you think there may have been more than one person who would wish her to come to

537
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,200
harm.

538
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:57,120
Anna was arrested after the incident, but she was not to be easily silenced, which is

539
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,000
so annoying these hysterical women.

540
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,880
Oh, keep your mouth shut.

541
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:11,000
After a while, she was in a state of fear.

542
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,000
She was in a state of fear.

543
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,000
She was in a state of fear.

544
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,240
She was in a state of fear.

545
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,520
She was in a state of fear.

546
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:34,360
But that's what I did done read, or she also fucking the judge.

547
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,720
I don't think so.

548
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:42,360
What's more, she had a little black book at the time that contained information she had

549
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,160
gathered in the several years she'd worked with the police.

550
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,200
Shit, dude.

551
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,200
She knew too much.

552
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:56,640
One from inside law enforcement had been feeding her information as well.

553
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:02,880
Leon Jenkins was police chief from 1919 to 1933.

554
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:12,040
When Harry Niles, his successor fell ill in 1946, Jenkins came out of retirement to become

555
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,280
chief again for more than a year.

556
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,280
Okay.

557
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,840
I need to pull up.

558
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,760
I have a picture I'd like to show you.

559
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:21,760
Okay.

560
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:27,320
Cassie, take a look at him pictured here celebrating his birthday with a slice of blackberry

561
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:28,320
pie.

562
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,120
Oh, I was like, is that a chicken wing?

563
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,360
Yeah.

564
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,640
I thought we could use the levity at this point.

565
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,280
Who eats pie with their hands?

566
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,280
I don't know.

567
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,280
It's a weird one.

568
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,080
Where is your fork, sir?

569
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,080
Sir.

570
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,080
You're in a suit.

571
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,080
Sir.

572
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,080
You're in with your hands.

573
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,240
He got, he got berries all over them fingers, man.

574
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,240
I'm zooming in.

575
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,880
Honestly, it looks like it's kind of all over his face too.

576
00:32:55,880 --> 00:33:00,040
I thought so too, but I was like, I don't know if that's just like a skin condition or no

577
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,040
idea.

578
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,040
Yeah, it's interesting.

579
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,080
It looks like he, it's maybe like the last bite and he picked it up just by like the

580
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,080
crust end.

581
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:08,080
I don't know.

582
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,400
For the picture, I don't know either, but yeah.

583
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,240
Anyways, it looks very happy with his pie.

584
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,240
He sure does.

585
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,680
A holiday theme too.

586
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:16,680
Yeah.

587
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:17,920
Look at you.

588
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,080
It's been positive that his return may have stoked her desire to release her little black

589
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,760
book, even well after a decade passed.

590
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,760
You go, girl.

591
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:28,760
You can go, girl.

592
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,280
I mean, but maybe don't.

593
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,840
Oh, look, so be careful though.

594
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:39,480
She had respected Leon Jenkins during his tenure as she'd worked alongside law enforcement.

595
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:45,720
But then he sided with his fellow officers in the department during the trial.

596
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:51,000
No surprise here, but she reportedly felt it a pretty major betrayal.

597
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,040
Although seriously, how did she win that lawsuit?

598
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,040
Yeah, that's crazy.

599
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,040
I really, I really want to know.

600
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,520
I feel like she had something on the judge like not really that she was like fucking him,

601
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,240
but maybe she had him in her little black book.

602
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,040
She had something on everybody.

603
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,920
Yeah, but that's the only way that that makes sense.

604
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,400
Yeah, I don't know.

605
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:14,520
I mean, I think it might be interesting for me to look a little bit deeper into like

606
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,840
the legal context during the time.

607
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,640
I don't know what at least know.

608
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,640
I maybe I don't know.

609
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,000
Yeah, we might have to ask her like any idea how that works.

610
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,200
Yeah, because I feel like alienation of affections is usually something that like the legal

611
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:33,200
spouse.

612
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,200
Right.

613
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,960
I just I can't wrap my brain around it.

614
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:44,280
But local true crime authors JD Chandler, Joshua Fisher and Teresa Griffin Kennedy

615
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,120
speculate in hindsight.

616
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,840
That sparked her anger and she may have decided she was going to leave Portland and go to

617
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:58,160
Minnesota and maybe mail the black book back to the Oregonian and finally keep her word

618
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,840
and expose the corruption in the Portland police bureau.

619
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,120
Oh my god.

620
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,120
Black book back.

621
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,320
I don't know how I made it through that black book bad bitch.

622
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:11,320
Yes.

623
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:18,240
Oh, still it is only a tenuous theory without very much to substantiate it.

624
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,720
Although I do find the fact that someone ran an ad in the Oregonian searching for a missing

625
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:32,400
person named Anne Schrader, a little bizarre, especially since our Anna Schrader, apparently

626
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,160
sometimes went by Anne.

627
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,160
Oh.

628
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,000
If you see her, she'll be holding a little black book and we really, really want that little

629
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,000
black book.

630
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,120
We really need to find that black book.

631
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:52,400
In fact, on her 63rd birthday, April 5, 1946, a small ad appeared in the classified section

632
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,040
of the Oregonian, the ten word ad reading.

633
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:04,240
Anyone knowing whereabouts of Anne Schrader, please write Y502 Oregonian.

634
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:09,120
It ran three times in total over the course of three weeks.

635
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,360
There is no record of who placed the strange ad, nor a record of any responses it may have

636
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:15,360
received.

637
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:16,360
Of course not.

638
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,360
Of course not.

639
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,840
The 1946 up at all.

640
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:26,080
While that's certainly odd, it's the fact that there is no record that the police ever investigated

641
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,800
her disappearance.

642
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:29,840
That really gets me.

643
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,000
I mean, it makes a lot of sense.

644
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,200
They're like, we actually prefer her missing.

645
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,200
Yeah.

646
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:38,200
Exactly.

647
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,400
Are they really going to try to find this person who has all this dirt on them?

648
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,400
No.

649
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:48,000
It's either they had something to do with it or they just don't want her found in general.

650
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,680
A thousand percent.

651
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,040
Also two things can be true.

652
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:54,280
They can be involved and then also just we don't want to find her.

653
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,360
Or maybe she just escaped to Minnesota and is gone.

654
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,760
We're running it to that.

655
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,960
In the case of someone like Anna Schrader with numerous wealthy and influential friends,

656
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,320
it seems likely that a missing person's report would have been filed.

657
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:16,080
Anna had ties to a fair few police officers with the PPP, some of whom were still serving

658
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,240
the city at the time.

659
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,840
But the Slabtown Chronicle has a post that sums it up nicely.

660
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,600
So I'm going to read this quote.

661
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:32,680
Corruption and rivalries defused the proper focus of the police bureau and the new chief

662
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:40,180
Leon Jenkins had far more reason to celebrate the disappearance of his least favorite

663
00:37:40,180 --> 00:37:43,320
Portlander than get to the bottom of it.

664
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:49,520
As a result, Schrader who hadn't received significant public attention in more than a decade

665
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,920
simply faded away.

666
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,800
Her disappearance unnoticed, uninvestigated and forgotten.

667
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,760
That's crazy.

668
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,640
Wow.

669
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:08,100
There are no death records for Anna.

670
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:13,600
If she really had moved and one was searching for a death certificate in this jurisdiction rather

671
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:19,400
than looking to the Midwest, maybe that could explain the dead end.

672
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:28,920
But as far as I know and could find, there's also nothing documenting her move officially

673
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,920
so far as I could find.

674
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,640
I bet it though it would be pretty easy for her to just change her name, move and change

675
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,640
her name in the four years.

676
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:36,640
Possibly.

677
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,640
Possibly.

678
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:43,700
It's just vague illusions to her going missing at best, which the historical time period

679
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:45,880
may be responsible for.

680
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,480
Remember, the remains of our jane doe also were missing.

681
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:57,320
So, you know, not that hard for something to go missing.

682
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:03,000
But if she did move to Minnesota as the story goes, it seems likely there would have been

683
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,800
documentation of some kind, like property, employment possibly or other records to serve

684
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,080
as a paper trail of some sort, right?

685
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:18,080
Ultimately, it's unlikely that anyone would be able to prove whether she did or didn't

686
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,560
move conclusively.

687
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,760
Just like it would be difficult at this point to definitively identify the oak grove jane

688
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:33,760
doe at this point without so much as partial dental records to use as a comparison.

689
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,120
We don't have nothing.

690
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:40,080
We don't have any of the records or any.

691
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:41,720
It's like all gone.

692
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:42,720
Yeah.

693
00:39:42,720 --> 00:39:43,720
It's all gone.

694
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:44,880
I could see like a piece.

695
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,920
I don't think there's anything.

696
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,680
But like, what the fuck?

697
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:54,080
I think it speaks to, and here's the thing is like I hate to just hang my hat on a conspiracy

698
00:39:54,080 --> 00:40:07,720
theory, but who better to make a few records go missing than the police who hate the potential

699
00:40:07,720 --> 00:40:10,080
victim, right?

700
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,600
Yeah, they don't ever want it.

701
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,720
I don't know, like when did they go missing?

702
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,960
Is that even a thing you could figure out?

703
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:26,360
I didn't find anything that definitively stated like, hey, by 1970, the records were gone.

704
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:27,360
Hard to say.

705
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:33,840
They might have been missing like before 1947, even though, you know, who knows?

706
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,560
I don't have a lot of good information about that.

707
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:43,560
Here's the thing is if it went missing just organically, there probably wouldn't be a good

708
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:44,560
way to document that.

709
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:45,800
Oh, I'm so scared.

710
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,800
I'm just asking that.

711
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,000
And if you tossed the records, of course, you're not going to document that.

712
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,400
Like, hey, through these away, I'm this dude.

713
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,400
You're welcome.

714
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,040
Hey, so you just made these go missing.

715
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,680
But that's where we leave off.

716
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:09,080
We might just have to discuss some of the other theories that emerged in a little Patreon

717
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,880
mini soda.

718
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:11,880
That's what I requested.

719
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,280
And it's what you requested.

720
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,160
Were you going to do that before I requested it?

721
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,160
I did.

722
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:18,840
It did my notes.

723
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,240
I wasn't sure.

724
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,480
But now that you've requested it, I'm like, oh, probably do it.

725
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:23,480
Oh, thanks.

726
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Yeah.

727
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,840
You can request something of me and I will gladly do it for you.

728
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:28,840
Believe me.

729
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:34,400
But for now, should we move on to something a little bit lighter?

730
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,120
Maybe some tarot?

731
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,120
I think so.

732
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:39,440
Let's do some tarot.

733
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,600
Let's get this palette cleansed.

734
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:42,600
Get it clean.

735
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:44,520
It's just sad.

736
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:45,520
It was very sad.

737
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,520
[MAGIC WAND]

738
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,520
[SHUFFLING]

739
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,320
Caitlyn's picking a card.

740
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,960
She's feeling it out.

741
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:56,760
Oh.

742
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,840
Oh, it looks intense.

743
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,520
Oh, we just got that one.

744
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:02,840
A ten of--

745
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:03,920
Yeah.

746
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:08,800
We did in the Barefoot Bandit episode because I just did the bonus and we talked about the

747
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,640
card again.

748
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,200
You got to enreverse this time.

749
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:13,720
Wow.

750
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:14,520
OK.

751
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,320
Ten of swords.

752
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,360
It's interesting.

753
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,360
The first thing I'm seeing is like a body, a skull with no eyes.

754
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:24,880
Yeah.

755
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,800
And then the rest of its body is behind it.

756
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,120
Obviously, it's not been like chopped up or something.

757
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,280
But it's still interesting to see.

758
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,600
Already in our keywords though, I'm seeing some terms that

759
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,200
maybe you have a linkage.

760
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:44,680
OK.

761
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:53,520
So keywords are exhaustion, giving up, betrayal, pain and sadness.

762
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:58,440
In many decks, the ten of swords depicts a man lying on the ground with ten swords stuck

763
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,760
in his back.

764
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:01,040
Ouch.

765
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,200
Tens represent the end of a cycle and the start of a new one.

766
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,520
Therefore this card symbolizes an end to the suffering and sadness you've endured.

767
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,800
Just in time for you probably couldn't stand much more.

768
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,080
It's interesting because you were talking that it was potentially-- they were potentially

769
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:20,480
tortured.

770
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:21,480
Yeah.

771
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,480
Yeah.

772
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:23,480
Ugh.

773
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:28,000
A really good point.

774
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:33,080
The reverse interpretation says, "The ten of swords suggest you're unwilling to take

775
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,040
the steps that will move you to a better place.

776
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:42,320
Perhaps you're deceiving yourself or you're stalling due to fear.

777
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,080
But delaying only makes things worse.

778
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,960
Stop making excuses and choose a course of action."

779
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:57,160
That kind of makes me think about Anna and she had threatened for so long.

780
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,040
I have this little black book.

781
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,920
She haven't really done anything with it.

782
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,800
And it's like you almost would have been safer had you released it.

783
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:10,240
You know what I mean?

784
00:44:10,240 --> 00:44:12,440
Because then it's out there and everyone knows about it.

785
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,080
So if something happens to you then it's obvious.

786
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,080
Exactly.

787
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,240
But if it's just like a rumor about it.

788
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:19,240
Yeah.

789
00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:25,000
In a reading about money, the reverse ten can represent a time of recovery after hardship

790
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:26,000
or loss.

791
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,640
A new cycle is beginning and better times may wait around the corner but you must take

792
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,120
the first step.

793
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:39,840
If the reading is about your job, you still feel insecure about your future.

794
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:46,200
But in order to get a more satisfactory place, you'll have to take a risk.

795
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,560
Stop letting the past prevent you from embracing new possibilities.

796
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:58,600
Or is this like about someone who did something bad instead of something good to like further

797
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:00,520
their advancements?

798
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,040
That'd be yeah.

799
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,800
Just because you're taking action on something doesn't necessarily mean it's a good thing.

800
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:07,800
Uh-huh.

801
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:09,040
Okay.

802
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:11,240
This is interesting.

803
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:16,800
In a reading about love, you may still be smarting from a deception, disappointment or

804
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,680
the trail.

805
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,040
But at least you can see more clearly now.

806
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:28,480
If a relationship has ended, you may experience a new sense of freedom.

807
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:32,720
I really wish we could know whether Anna moved away.

808
00:45:32,720 --> 00:45:38,840
I really would like to be able to know what happened to Anna because it would really inform

809
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:48,120
us in a sense like it, is it even possible that she's the lake grove Jane Doe?

810
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,400
There are so many other possibilities.

811
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,660
I like to think that the police just paid her off to move away and change her name and

812
00:45:55,660 --> 00:45:58,040
never come back with her little blockbook.

813
00:45:58,040 --> 00:45:59,040
Yeah.

814
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,960
I feel like that's certainly a valid possibility as well.

815
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:05,960
I don't know.

816
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:12,080
It's hard to know which of those is more likely or if any of them ever happen.

817
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,080
You know what I mean?

818
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:18,280
Like, I definitely also want to know who this person is, but I also don't want it to be

819
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:19,280
anybody.

820
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,880
I mean, it's someone regardless.

821
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,600
I know it is definitely somebody.

822
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:31,600
I mean, this might make you feel a little bit better as awful as it is that her case,

823
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:39,520
you know, Anna was never really investigated and so much of the Oak Grove Jane Doe evidence

824
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,120
has now lost.

825
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,960
They do still have the case listed on the Clackamas County website.

826
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:52,360
So I'm going to link to that because there are images of the items that were discovered.

827
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:59,360
So we do at least have photographic evidence of some of the things, obviously given the

828
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,480
nature of some of the items that were recovered.

829
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,040
There are some images associated with the case that are, you know, perhaps on the more

830
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:16,920
graphic side, but I think it's important to use what we do have to try to see if there's

831
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,160
even a remote possibility of still solving the case.

832
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:23,160
And who knows?

833
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,920
Maybe those records aren't lost lost.

834
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:32,320
Maybe, you know, the fact that they have images of the items that were lost.

835
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,320
Maybe those are things that like somebody can point to, you know, when they just uncover

836
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:45,720
like a random evidence, you know, bag or box that, oh, this, we thought this was lost

837
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:48,600
forever and maybe we do still have it.

838
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,080
Like they just lost track of it, not lost it.

839
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:53,080
I don't know.

840
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:54,880
I'd like to think maybe that's a possibility.

841
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,800
I mean, it is a possibility.

842
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:57,800
Yeah.

843
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:58,800
Likely does that.

844
00:47:58,800 --> 00:47:59,800
Yeah.

845
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:00,800
I don't know.

846
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:01,800
Yeah.

847
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:07,640
And I think even if it isn't that it was Anna and that the police like actively like made

848
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:13,000
that evidence go away, I think the fact that it's, you know, essentially gone missing for

849
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:18,800
all intents and purposes, I think, yeah, it's probably unlikely that it will be recovered,

850
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,080
but it would be nice.

851
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,080
Wow.

852
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,080
Yeah.

853
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:30,440
Is, did they ever connect any other body found in this like type of way?

854
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,760
Like, did they ever think anybody else was, I guess we kind of talked about the serial killer

855
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:36,760
thing.

856
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,760
They didn't really do that back then.

857
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:39,760
Yeah.

858
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:46,280
To my knowledge, there weren't any other, there weren't any other remains that were recovered

859
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:53,520
within like a timeframe or that matched kind of in other aspects of the case that were

860
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:54,680
necessarily linked.

861
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:02,040
I think there are just other missing persons cases and other, you know, killers that, oh,

862
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:03,640
this could maybe link up.

863
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:05,960
So that's also a possibility.

864
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:12,200
Maybe, you know, I think probably anybody that might have confessed, probably has taken

865
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,920
that to their deathbed and beyond, but you never know.

866
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:24,000
I mean, maybe somebody wrote in their journal like, yeah, a long lost journal.

867
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,000
Yeah.

868
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,500
Oh, man.

869
00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:31,800
There is a long last letter that is how we know that she was being fed information from

870
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,000
other police officers.

871
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,000
Oh.

872
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:36,000
Yeah.

873
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,280
That was recovered in some public records.

874
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:44,560
So that's something that, that's in my sort of source material.

875
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,880
It'll be in the paste bin.

876
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:49,960
One of the articles that refers to that, was that like a case she was helping on or was

877
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,080
that like from her court case?

878
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,560
No, it's specifically related to her.

879
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:55,560
So interesting.

880
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,560
Yeah.

881
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,440
Oh, it was really interesting.

882
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:05,560
So I mean, I think, you know, it's very convenient.

883
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,040
I don't know how plausible a lot of conspiracy theories, especially when it pertains

884
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:13,000
to like a law enforcement cover up.

885
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,680
Sometimes, you know, we know that there are faults on the part of law enforcement and the

886
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:18,680
justice system.

887
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,920
But in a lot of cases, it can seem like kind of a reach.

888
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,760
I think in this case in particular, it feels like, woof.

889
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,840
Yeah, there could be some truth about that.

890
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:34,520
She was heavily involved with police in multiple, multiple different ways.

891
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:35,520
Yes.

892
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,240
Professionally and romantically.

893
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:38,240
Business or producer?

894
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:41,080
Do you think maybe the wife did it?

895
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:42,360
The jealous wife.

896
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,480
You know, I just strictly super conspiracy theory.

897
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:47,480
Yeah.

898
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:52,080
I feel like anything's the possibility, but I think that one seems unlikely.

899
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:53,080
Yeah.

900
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,720
I think, you know, not that women aren't capable of doing horrific things, but I think

901
00:50:57,720 --> 00:50:58,720
a lot.

902
00:50:58,720 --> 00:50:59,720
It is.

903
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:00,720
It is.

904
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:06,720
And I think just the nature of how the body was dismembered and disposed.

905
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:12,720
I think that for a woman of that time, that may have been a little bit beyond reach.

906
00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:13,720
Yeah.

907
00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:19,800
I think typically your wife was, I mean, and not to say that I approve of this, of course,

908
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,320
by any means, but, you know, you're in a little bit shorter leash.

909
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:26,720
Oh my God, I've seen the same thing like kept on a tight leash.

910
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:27,720
Yeah.

911
00:51:27,720 --> 00:51:35,960
So I just think it seems unlikely that that is has a high likelihood of being the possible

912
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,800
explanation, but.

913
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,880
And without being graphic, it's like a very physical thing to see on a person.

914
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:45,880
Yes.

915
00:51:45,880 --> 00:51:48,680
No, I mean, and that's exactly what I think as well.

916
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:55,480
It's, that's, I doesn't get much more personal or much more violent than that.

917
00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:03,320
And like, oh, how long that takes and to spend that much time doing that many different

918
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:04,320
cuts.

919
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:05,320
Which is also interesting.

920
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,040
We got like the 10 of swords.

921
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:12,480
I don't know how many like cuts were made to the body, but it seems like there could very

922
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,920
well have been 10 of them or more.

923
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:22,400
I mean, numerous because there are the cuts that are separating the limbs from the body,

924
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:28,840
but there are also, and I think this is particularly important because fingerprint technology, like

925
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,880
that, that's a science that existed at that point in history.

926
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,120
I don't know that the hands were ever recovered.

927
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,520
The hands were severed from the arms.

928
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:41,200
So that is interesting.

929
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:42,200
Yeah.

930
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:47,000
Like where did they decide to dispose of those or did they try to like burn them or something

931
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:48,000
else?

932
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,000
Yeah.

933
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Burned buried.

934
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:51,000
Who knows.

935
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:56,280
But I would think that would be aside from maybe the head, the hands might be the most

936
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:03,040
readily identifiable body parts in a case like this for the time.

937
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:05,640
So I don't know.

938
00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:08,000
10 cuts, I don't know.

939
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:09,000
Possibly.

940
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:10,000
Very likely.

941
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:14,120
I don't want to like think about trying to like count.

942
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:21,360
I'm already doing the map of my head and I think 10 ish or, you know, I feel like 10 plus

943
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,920
actually is a very good possibility.

944
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:30,000
You know, to sever each of the limbs and then the hands were already up to eight.

945
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,440
Yeah, eggs.

946
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,040
Very yikes.

947
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,240
Just logistically, I hate it.

948
00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:40,960
I hate everything and here we are.

949
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:42,280
Where's package is ever?

950
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:46,240
I know, not very Christmassy, but I would turn the money on Amazon.

951
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:49,320
Yeah, they did not come with a gift receipt.

952
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,840
I can't scam a little code and return it at calls.

953
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,160
No QR code.

954
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:00,440
Man, I just really hope there's something someday.

955
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,480
And then we're around to talk about it together.

956
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:04,480
I know.

957
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,920
I really, there's a little part of me that's like, okay, is there like a place that people

958
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:14,600
can, like, can we go and look through like an old evidence locker or like, is there like

959
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:20,320
some sort of like volunteer record system where like, oh, shit, we thought all of this was

960
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:21,320
like bookkeeping.

961
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:25,400
But maybe there's, you know, crime scene evidence.

962
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:26,400
I don't know.

963
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,720
It would be hard, a hard thing to like try to get people to not like fuck up any evidence

964
00:54:31,720 --> 00:54:33,480
while they're searching for things.

965
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:38,960
But it would just be, that would be a really interesting thing I would love to like volunteer

966
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:39,960
and help out with.

967
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:40,960
Yeah.

968
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:45,800
If there's anything that needs to be like searched for, I'm good for looking, I'm good at looking

969
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:46,800
for things.

970
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:47,800
Yeah.

971
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:48,800
I'm good at organizing things.

972
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:49,800
Yeah.

973
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:54,080
Yeah, maybe we'll have to look into that and see if there's, I doubt that that will be

974
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,400
the application, right?

975
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,600
But it would be, it would be cool to look into some volunteer opportunities for things

976
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:05,440
like that to like, you know, maybe these are things we can do that make a difference in.

977
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:06,440
Yeah.

978
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,600
Because there anyway, we could help without fucking anything up, you know, I wouldn't want

979
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:12,280
to hurt more than hell forever.

980
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,280
Yeah.

981
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:23,280
I think, you know, I think maybe we'll take the more proactive role actually on that.

982
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:24,280
Yeah.

983
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,320
My number is, yeah, I feel like I would probably, oh, wait, they know, they're police.

984
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,320
They can just look up my records.

985
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:31,320
Yeah.

986
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:32,320
What's going to say?

987
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:33,320
I have police records.

988
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,320
No, I'm going to absolutely piss my pants thinking about this.

989
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:38,760
Oh, I was like, do you have to pee and I like keep talking.

990
00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:39,760
No.

991
00:55:39,760 --> 00:55:40,760
Okay.

992
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:46,080
But just that's like such a nerve wracking thought to be like, you know, just contacted by law

993
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:47,400
enforcement.

994
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:51,360
Have you ever like had your info like been fingerprinted?

995
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,000
I don't know if we've talked about this before.

996
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,000
Have you ever been like fingerprinted?

997
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,400
I think I've ever been fingerprinted.

998
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:57,800
I worked at a daycare.

999
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:03,460
So you fun fact, you have to go if you work at a daycare, get fingerprinted and like input

1000
00:56:03,460 --> 00:56:07,040
into the system and like, I think that's for the best.

1001
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,040
It totally is.

1002
00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:10,360
I was like, I have no problem doing this.

1003
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:11,880
I will gladly do this.

1004
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:13,560
But like, now I'm in the system.

1005
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,800
They got, they got some offing prints.

1006
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:16,800
Yeah.

1007
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,800
I can't do anything wrong.

1008
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:23,160
Well, and I would think that of jobs that I've had over the years, probably if there was

1009
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:28,480
one where I would be required to do that and where it would be useful maybe to have

1010
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:34,360
somebody's fingerprints is like, I worked at a bank, you know, when I was a teller, seems

1011
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,800
like, I mean, I would want fingerprints for anybody who's handling that, you know, sort

1012
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,600
of volume of cash.

1013
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:46,840
But then also when you're touching like so many individual pieces of like, you know, paper

1014
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:53,840
essentially all day, every day, like your fingerprint becomes like such a, like commodity.

1015
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:54,840
Oh, okay.

1016
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:55,840
You're going to see it all over everything.

1017
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,760
I thought you were going to see your fingers get too dry to where they can't read your

1018
00:56:58,760 --> 00:56:59,760
fingerprints.

1019
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,680
Oh, no, I don't think that's a thing.

1020
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:04,560
Because like touching paper makes your fingers dry.

1021
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:05,560
It does.

1022
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:06,560
Yeah, absolutely.

1023
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:07,560
I know this.

1024
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:08,560
Yeah.

1025
00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:09,560
Because I do a lot of shredding.

1026
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:10,560
And I now wear gloves.

1027
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:13,000
Also because I get so many paper cuts.

1028
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:14,000
Oh my God.

1029
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:15,000
I get paper cuts.

1030
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,600
Like if I even look at a piece of paper, I'll get a paper cut.

1031
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:19,600
So I have to wear gloves.

1032
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:21,440
I'm really prone to them as well.

1033
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,280
I feel like working with money, you don't really have that issue so much, but your hands

1034
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,560
do get really dry.

1035
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,640
Especially because you're constantly sanitizing them because money is very, very, very

1036
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:32,640
dirty.

1037
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,640
And I asked you, that's how you create them.

1038
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:35,640
Super bugs, Kayla.

1039
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,640
And we were just talking about the, it's not the same.

1040
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,640
It's not the same.

1041
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:40,640
It's the same.

1042
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,360
It's definitely not the same.

1043
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:50,440
No, I mean, one of the times that I have been truly like the sickest, I would say arguably

1044
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:55,080
that is like a cognitive true memory in my mind that I can remember.

1045
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:59,520
It's like the earliest is when I went through teller training and I had to go down to

1046
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:04,800
Salem and I came back very, very ill.

1047
00:58:04,800 --> 00:58:05,800
That's when I had mono.

1048
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:08,800
Oh, you got mono from touching money?

1049
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,120
I don't know.

1050
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,600
I got mono in the time.

1051
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:13,600
Were you making out with the money?

1052
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:15,600
You're like, "Oh, a honey."

1053
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:21,900
Yeah, I think, unfortunately mono I think is one of those things is just like very highly

1054
00:58:21,900 --> 00:58:22,900
contagious.

1055
00:58:22,900 --> 00:58:24,400
No, you have to make out.

1056
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,400
It's a rule.

1057
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,400
I'm pretty sure that that's not how that works.

1058
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:30,240
It's the kissing disease.

1059
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:31,240
I know.

1060
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:35,320
Okay, well now I'm giggling now because you're also I'm totally kidding.

1061
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:37,560
I know that it can be transmitted otherwise.

1062
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:38,880
It's kind of like COVID, right?

1063
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:41,440
Where it's just like highly contagious.

1064
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,360
That's what I was saying.

1065
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,240
I was just yanking your chain.

1066
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,360
It is spread through saliva, but...

1067
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,480
Well spit when they talk.

1068
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:55,720
People spit when they talk, but also have you ever seen somebody like their finger?

1069
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:56,720
Oh, yes.

1070
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:57,720
Yes.

1071
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,520
Yeah, we shouldn't do that no more.

1072
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,880
No, you never should have done it, to be honest.

1073
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:08,080
But yeah, it makes sense actually now seeing that.

1074
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:13,200
I mean, all you have to do is come into contact with somebody else's contaminated saliva.

1075
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:14,200
However, that happens.

1076
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:17,080
So it could be a dored up, whatever.

1077
00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:24,480
But it is popularly referred to as the kissing disease because it's transmitted through

1078
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:25,480
saliva.

1079
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:27,760
Yeah.

1080
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,680
Can you get it like through your cuda or wewie?

1081
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,000
Like if someone's licking down there, could it...

1082
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,520
Could you get it that way or does it have to go from like mouth to mouth?

1083
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,920
No, because you could like get it in your eye.

1084
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:42,640
Yeah, I mean you exactly.

1085
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,280
Feel like any orifices.

1086
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,680
Any orifices.

1087
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,040
Any mucus membrane, essentially.

1088
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,040
Yeah.

1089
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:50,040
Yeah.

1090
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,040
Did I just say cuda or like wewie?

1091
00:59:54,040 --> 00:59:55,040
Yeah, you did.

1092
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:56,440
You sure did?

1093
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:58,920
I am a grown adult.

1094
00:59:58,920 --> 00:59:59,920
The Gina penis.

1095
00:59:59,920 --> 01:00:01,240
Could have fooled me.

1096
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,360
The Gina penis.

1097
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,640
Jesus Christ.

1098
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:07,160
That's like my least favorite word.

1099
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,840
I just like, cause they're fun to say and like funny.

1100
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:11,400
I don't like any of that.

1101
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:12,400
Kuchi Miamiao.

1102
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,160
That's what Brittany calls it.

1103
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,600
Kuchi Brinio says Kuchi Miamiao.

1104
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,080
I'm dead.

1105
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:26,360
Anyway, this has been an actual real polyclinzer, but it's black.

1106
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:27,360
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1107
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:31,480
I think we were sensing that that was what was needed.

1108
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:32,480
Mm-hmm.

1109
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:37,920
It's not at all because one of us is dangerously low medication.

1110
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,680
And one of us is unmedicated.

1111
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:45,000
And the other is almost unmedicated, not by choice.

1112
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:46,000
Yeah.

1113
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:47,000
Yeah.

1114
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,000
There's Biatch.

1115
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Chars Biatch.

1116
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,520
Well, it's depressing as that was.

1117
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,600
We still hope you're having a wonderful holiday season.

1118
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:55,600
Yeah.

1119
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:56,600
Winter solstice.

1120
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:57,600
Yeah.

1121
01:00:57,600 --> 01:00:59,440
Winter solstice, you lit up.

1122
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,240
Yeah, she's right around the corner.

1123
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,440
Right, the 21st, right?

1124
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:04,440
The 20th or the 21st?

1125
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:05,440
One of those.

1126
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:06,440
Roundabouts.

1127
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:07,440
All right.

1128
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:08,440
Should we do the thing?

1129
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:09,440
Do all our business.

1130
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:10,440
Okay.

1131
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:12,440
Have a creepy ass day.

1132
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:13,440
See you next Tuesday.

1133
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:14,440
See you next Tuesday.

1134
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:24,440
I don't have anything funny to say.

1135
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:25,440
I'm sad.

1136
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:26,440
Okay, I'm stopping.

1137
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:27,440
Bad journalism.

1138
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:28,440
Okay.

1139
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,440
I'll start over.

1140
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:30,440
Go to Minnesota.

1141
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:31,440
Go to Minnesota.

1142
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:32,440
And be bad.

1143
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,440
And we be bad in Minnesota.

1144
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:35,440
[LAUGHTER]

1145
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:45,440
[Music] pnwhauntsandhomicides.com