The Nesbitt Homestead Murders | Hood River, Oregon

0:01 Sometime in late nineteen hundred, Louisa and Alma Nesbit disappeared. Their absence was discovered not through a dramatic event, but through silence, the absence of routine activity that normally defined life on a homestead. No one saw smoke from their chimney, no one saw them in town, no one observed movement around their property. Eventually, neighbors began investigating. What they found raised alarm. Their home and land appeared abandoned. Daily life had stopped abruptly. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hello, This is PNW Hansen Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest or the pan w if Yon knife nasty and has been well established. Clearly you must be. I smell it from here. I smell you're nasty from here. Oh boy, okay, I don't know that we had to associate like a smelliness with it, but I didn't. It was a bad smell.

1:20 Nasty means great. Okay, all right, that's part. That's the that's the lore we want to go with. All right. We also do a little taro reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic, just a yes, well that we do for yeah, because we're fun witches. Yeah, and which is not a bad word. Correct. Today I'm feeling very much like a task master witch because we're trying to pre record a little bit because next weekend I'm on a pilgrimage to procure my puppy.

2:07 I want to squeal so bad, but I know nobody wants that another years. Yeah, probably not, probably not, But you can imagine the squealing, the internal squealing that's happening right now. Yeah, exactly, just you fill in the blank. I'm sure we've squealed before when we hadn't thought better of it. So, yeah, that's true. I've probably got something to work with. I'm so excited, I know, all right. In rural Oregon at the turn of the twentieth century, in many regards, there was a certain quiet, uneasy tension, the sense that people depended on one another that also feared one another. The Hood River Valley was still a developing agricultural community, more frontier than town, while the Columbia River Gorge had long served as a transportation corridor. But orchards now were beginning to spread across the hillside. Timber stands pressed against newly cleared homesteads coming on up.

3:16 Yeah, woodn't fruit wooden freeze. I think of orchards. That's like fruit, right, Yeah, if it could be anything. No, orchards, Yeah, I think orchards specifically, like A refers to fruit trees. I could be rong, okay, cool, I don't know. The roads were rough and farms were distant from one another. Many residents were homesteaders or small farmers, trying to build stable lives from rugged land. Families relied heavily on routine tending livestock, cutting wood, hauling water, and preparing food stores to survive the winter month. Because and I don't think about this nearly enough when we talk about different points in history. They didn't have refrigerators. Yeah, meal prepping is already enough of a challenge for me.

4:20 I can't really wrap my head around. Like they had to make jerky. Yeah, I remember reading about this in Little House on the Prairie that like you ate a lot of jerky meat, Yeah, a lot of jerky. Or there was a lot of like dried fruit and things like that, or canning depending on you know what it was. Sounds like an absolute nightmare, like what happens when you just you know, it's like Thursday and you just want it to be Taco Tuesday. But there's going to kill a cow. Yeah, there's nothing freus. News traveled slowly unless something serious happened, and when it did, everyone knew. In the winter of nineteen hundred, something serious did happen when two women vanished from their homestead. Their absence would ignite suspicion and divide a community. Louisa Nesbitt and her daughter Alma lived together on a homestead in the Hood River area.

5:19 Like many rural women of the era, their lives revolved around domestic labor, farm maintenance, and survival work that rarely entered official records, but to find frontier existence. Child wives, yeah, the og Yeah. Their household was small but stable, and they were part of the loose social network that connected rural communities in the valley. Nothing about their lives suggested violence or danger, I guess, other than you know, just being in the middle of nowhere where anybody could happen upon your little lovely homestead any given moment, even in the wild. Wow list right, Yeah, quite literally. In frontier communities, relationships between neighbors could be complicated. Land disputes, financial struggles, and personal conflicts were not uncommon, especially in areas where legal boundaries and property lines were still being formalized, because this is when you could just be like, I got a dollar and I want those ones, all those acres.

6:27 Yeah yeah, you could have it, as long as you didn't live there originally, right. Right, right, yeah, that little mitigating circumstance, if you will. Sometime in late nineteen hundred, Luisa and Alma Nesbit disappeared. Their absence was discovered not through a dramatic event, but through silence, the absence of routine activity that normally defined life on a homestead. No one saw smoke from their chimney, no one saw them in town, no one observed movement around their property. Eventually, neighbors began investigating what they found raised alarm. Their home and land appeared abandoned. Daily life had stopped abruptly. Signs suggested that women had not left voluntarily, though nothing immediately confirmed any kind of violence. In an era without modern investigative tools, disappearance alone could quickly become evidence of wrongdoing suspicion began to grow.

7:32 You sure they didn't just run away, right, Yeah, they just decided, you know what, it's just really not for me. No, But like when you have your own your own land and house, and seems odd. The thing about it is, it's it's it's one thing to run away when there's a possibility of just catching an uber and going wherever you want from there, when you're literally hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from you know, members of your family or you know, civilization, it seems a little bit less likely. And here's the thing too, Like a lot of what I read talked about just how much Alma in particular had really romanticized coming out west, and how excited she was at the idea the possibility of like interacting with natives in the area, even like everything about like the Frontier and the wild West was really just like fascinating to her. She just was so excited to get out here. Wow. So the idea of abandoning everything that she had tried to build out here with her mother just doesn't It doesn't really track attention soon turned toward and neighboring man as it does.

9:04 Initially nothing about Williams publicly marked him as dangerous. He was simply part of the community. That perception would change quickly. His proximity to the Nesbit property made him impossible to ignore, but as it happens, proximity was far from his only tie to the Nesbit women. H Oh, yeah, it's not great scandal. Born January seventeenth, eighteen fifty seven in Sambra, Ontario, Daniel Norman Williams was hardly a gentleman, even by the standard of the era. Pretty low. Yeah, the bar was truly in free fall through all nine circles of Hell.

9:49 You said it way better than me. Yeah, well I had some time to think about it, so. Yeah, you did write this. Yeah, truly my least favorite Canadian. That's hard to do, you know, but every once in a while you find a you find one that ego I don't know. I don't know about him. I don't know about a boot about a boot. I feel like it's whenever I hear someone from Canada talking and like you pick up the accent, they're never actually saying a boot. It's a little bit softer than that. Yeah, yeah, let's not offend our friend Clint from Canada by trying to do his accent well.

10:32 And I think of Alicia too. I'm like, uh, Alisha, you're you're a pod bffe so Eddie, who's all better muzzle this lady before she In eighteen ninety four, he was released from a Nebraska penitentiary after serving three years for assaulting and nearly killing his sister in law. That he ended up in Colwell, Iowa, where he met his lovely lady. And I just damn, it just would have been so much better off never meeting a man, you know usually yeahh then thirty one year old Almond Nesbit. Whoo, that's that's their little meet cute.

11:25 Yeah, I bet he didn't tell her about how he assaulted his sister in law. You know, I have to imagine probably not. I'm gonna go with no. Did it say why he did? Which would he? She like, wasn't into sleeping with him because it's like her brother in. Law or what? You know, It's unclear. It's unclear. Actually I didn't really find anything like. That's a pretty good guest. Yeah, I feel like that, you know, given the time and and just the madness of it all. But Alma joined Williams fur their West in Oregon in eighteen ninety nine. There the pair claimed adjoining homestead claims about twenty miles outside of the river.

12:08 Can we unjoin? Please? Right, I'd like to consciously unadjoin. On July twenty fifth, eighteen ninety nine, they were secretly married in Vancouver, Washington. Why was it a secret? Put a pin in that? Okay. At the time, neighboring Washington State's marriage laws were apparently less restrictive, which was handy seeing as mister Williams was apparently already married to an Oregon woman in Defer, shortly before Alma joined him in Oregon. So they meet after he's released from prison, and they're like, oh, love you so much, and he takes off for Oregon. She joins him out there in I don't know, it's it's unclear the exact amount of time, but it's like, I think roughly maybe a year maybe a little bit less that they are separated and he literally marries some other broad Wow, which kind of rude. Couldn't get officially divorced or I don't think that he was really concerned about bothering with that.

13:24 I you know, I just I think that he had so many other things. That he was worried about. By October, her mother, Louisa, then in her late sixties, had joined Alma in Oregon. On March eighth, nineteen hundred, it was a stormy night as the trio boarded a Portland train for Hood River. Upon arrival that evening, Williams rented a wagon and two horse team from the Fashion Livery Stables. It sounds so fancy, It sounds so fancy, so fancy, but it's me, you said, Just to be clear, it's it's just stables. That's just where you rent your horses, and and the buggies for the horses anyway, and then they headed to their homestead. That was the last time either woman was seen alive. But the fashion Stables were sounding so good. I know, it was really sounding promising.

14:21 Months later, but long before the fate of the Nesbit women would come to light, Williams encountered some issues within his plot, because of course there's there's a plot afoot, I'm sure. Well, I mean a man was involved, so you knew it was gonna get mad. Doesn't mean it's a good plot, Yeah, yeah, no, they just always be plotting, right, And you know how they say like and the plot thickens. It's like it actually kept getting thinner. And the plot limpens. Like literally the plot was mortally wounded. You see, marriage did not give him the right to Almah's land, given the era. I honestly found that surprising because I just I would have assumed their marriage would have automatically made him the default owner of any of her worldly holdings. Yeah, historically, that's been my understanding of how things work. Maybe she had a prenup. Yeah, yeah, maybe since the marriage was secret.

15:32 I you know, I tend to doubt it, but anything's possible. So I just it's very strange because I feel like that's the logic behind a lot of fathers being adamantly opposed to, you know, certain matches for their daughters, because the justification is that, like, this is the person that's gonna have to take care of you. Anything that you inherit from me, that becomes his property. H Yeah. So I don't know why in this situation, you know, he wasn't automatically like the you. Know, maybe because they weren't married in Oregon. I don't know, maybe that's it.

16:13 I have no idea, and I just I just you know, I was like, listen, there's a lot here. That's probably not the thread that I'm gonna pull at this time. But you can only own one of your wife's properties. Well, actually that you know, it's funny you say that. It's funny, you say, oh, bad luck for Williams. But worse still was the fact that his house and barn had both been mistakenly built on almost land. Claim mistakenly huh hmm, interesting. Which I don't I don't know how you. I don't know how you do that. Uh yeah, because he thought he would just own it.

16:55 So he was like, well, I'll put it anywhere I want, right, you. Know, maybe maybe I I just feel like it's really interesting to watch really devious and yet terribly mediocre or underperforming men not have you know, the follow through to just like, I mean, maybe you should just at least make sure that like your house is actually your house because you built it on your land. Yeah, big strong man built couch. He just a hat rack. Seriously. I just was like, you cannot make this up. You are so dumb. Oh AnyWho. Still, he was determined to take these lemons and make himself some lemonade, so he forged almost signature on the required relinquishment document before presenting it to the Land Office on June twenty third, nineteen hundred.

17:57 The clerk, however, was not fooled by the apparently obvious forgery because I guess they weren't born yesterday, and as a result, the federal court issued an indictment for Williams based on the forgery. Oh shit, Yeah, I wonder how they knew, Like, did he just completely not even try to change his handwriting or. I you know, I guess from from everything that I read, it was it was him apparently making a good faith attempt at forging her signature, which honestly makes it worse. Like, so you were trying and it just turned out that badly? Wow, Okay, where to begin with that? Just be better?

18:47 You know. I bet he tried a bunch of times and like kept scribbling it out right, I don't you know. I think he had spent some time practicing it before he actually completed this signature on the form. It was on the back of the paper. I don't think it was that obvious, but it does it Like it just begs so many questions. Yeah, and I'm just really picturing all of like it's a very three stooges, and he's all three of them in my mind. No. I mean, I guess for somebody that actually has a homestead and they have like a land claim, they actually have a signature of record from the Yeah, so they were able to compare it and they were like, well, this is very clearly fake. This is this is na her signature.

19:43 Yeah, which, good. Luck doing that today because mine. Is just like we're I don't think signatures mean shit today, really, I mean, I don't know some people actually try. Yeah. I feel like at this point I would almost rather do like an electronic sickn nature for any type of legal document, because they're typically like there's like a little watermark and it shows like date time, you know. It does like the little curly cute letters for you, you know, the cursive, but it also it spells out you know, your full you know, first and last, you know, legal name, And I just feel like it just feels more legit for a lot of things. But they didn't ask me back then, and they're not asking me now.

20:32 Just my two cents. This alone didn't offer any immediate answers regarding the disappearance of Alma and Louisa. But you know what they say about patients being a virtue, But it's a virtue, I guess, yeah. Fucking annoying as shit, but that's that's what they say. So in early nineteen oh four, George Nesbitt arrived in Oregon to investigate the disappearance of his mother and sister. He had stayed in contact with the women through numerous letters that sent frequently back and forth. Then in March of nineteen hundred, he had received what would be the final letter. It had been written from a rooming house on Grand Avenue in Portland and stated they were returning home to Iowa, though no reason was given for their departure from the homestead.

21:29 So it's a little bit of a mystery in terms of why they were deciding to return home. They certainly were not just running away, yeah, but they had decided to leave. So, I mean, she married this man in secret. They have these adjoining plots, and they've built a home and a life apparently not living together but whatever, and then decides, I, you know, we're not going to stay weird. Weird. There's a number of reasons why that could be. I feel like it's because of this man. Yeah, I do have some follow up questions for the man. Yeah. When he arrived in Hode River, he was directed to the fashion Livery Stables and arranged with the proprietor Bert Straanahan for a horse and buggy to take him to do a little prospecting and prospecting, like at least in kind of this time period. Typically it refers to like prospecting, like you know, they're they're panning for gold, is kind of the that's the thing, That's what.

22:42 I thought, Yeah, which is odd. Maybe it's just his excuse to like go look around. I don't know, interesting what a pinon? That? So many pins? Well? Right, I know what is this pinterest? While Stranahan found this odd as he'd never heard of any gold in the Ranching Valley, he obliged the man that had introduced himself as mister Jackson. So this is George Nesbit saying hello, I am mister Jackson, and I will be prospecting in a place where historically gold has not frequently been discovered.

23:22 Did he say, mister Jackson, if you're nasty, No, I think he said, Amphaie. When he ventured onto the property formerly occupied by Norman Williams. He quickly began working digging near the clearly abandoned house and barn. Eventually he moved on to the henhouse. There he discovered bloody gunnysacks, long strands of silver hair still attached. Oh, I don't like that. Did miss have gray hair?

24:03 However? Did you know? I just put yeah, I put blood and hair together, and yeah, blood and hair and missing people together. It was after this discovery that George finally leveled with Bert about his real identity and why he had come to Hood River, because I think at that point he, I guess figured the jig was up, even though it was never really up. Yeah, it was never up and running, and now it was coming down. The time was up, that all of that was over it did it? Is smart of him, though, not to say why he was really there, because then you know, news will travel, someone sniffing around and then they'll clean up all the evidence.

24:48 Exactly exactly, like he has no idea who he can trust here. I mean, his freaking sister and mom are missing. They yeah, I mean, on the face of it, I was kind of like, why did he give a fake name and why was he so secretive about it? But it makes complete sense. He's obvious than what's his bud? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Norman Hill. Based on examination of the gunnysack evidence by a surprising future key expert witness, the Wasco County Grand Jury issued an indictment against Williams for first degree murder.

25:29 He was arrested in Bellingham, Washington, where he had been working at a sawmill and living with yet another new woman. Oh, my goodness, can't keep it in his pants. This man, I literally my exact thought, cannot keep it in his parents, this one just He was escorted back to Hood River, where he tried to explain that he had driven both women to the train station on the morning of March ninth, nineteen hundred, and he had nothing to do with their unexplained disappearance. I mean, they could have gotten picked up by somebody else, but yeah.

26:10 However, by this time, it was reportedly revealed that he was still married to a wife in Nebraska, and that at least two of his six wives had died of some manner of poison. No, some sources said three of his previous wives. Oh. He was held in the Wasco County jail on a ten thousand dollars bond, which is equivalent to over three hundred and sixty thousand dollars today. It's a pretty good amount. This is a good amount. It's a good amount. It's an amount that says we would prefer for you to stay here. Yeah, actually, don't worry. We're going to take care of your accommodations and your meals. The case quickly became entangled with a legal con that would define its legacy.

27:02 Corpus delicti. The Latin phrase means body of the crime, and in legal terms, it refers to the requirement the prosecutors prove a crime actually occurred before someone can be convicted of committing it. Okay, I mean makes sense. Yeah, necessary and reasonable as this standard is within the legal system, it's also the reason the phrase no body, no crime exists in the public consciousness, and you know, is a I have to imagine. I know of at least one song, but I'm sure there are many others by missus Taylor Swift. Yes, although if you think about it, I think Dixie Chicks Earle had to die. I feel like it kind of it doesn't come out and say no body, no crime like in those specific words, but they let them real, well, but it's there. Yeah. Of course, strictly speaking, it's not exactly accurate to say nobody, no crime, right, but certainly no body. Homicides present unique challenges even today, and certainly at that point in history, you weren't getting a lot of murder convictions when they didn't have a body, because it is so plausible, especially back then, so like you can be like, oh, let's just jump on Facebook and see maybe you know, yeah, hit her up and see

28:33 if she just moved back home. Traditionally, murder cases relied heavily on the discovery of a victim's body. Without it, proving death could be extremely difficult. The Nesbit case forced Oregon courts to confront a difficult question. Could someone be convicted of murder when the victims had never been found? Prosecutors believed the answer was yes. Deputy disc Attorney Fred Wilson and George Nesbitt continued working to gather additional evidence and witness statements for the case. They returned to the rooming house on Grand in Portland, where the women had stayed and their last letter to George had been written.

29:18 Now at this point, Fred Wilson was acting as a detective. I don't know that he had officially been named the deputy district attorney yet, but either way, this guy's all over the place. He's like, I'm a lawyer, I'm a detective. He's like, you know, jack of all trades and seems like kind of a master of all of them. I feel like they probably didn't have enough people, like one person had to do multiple jobs. Yeah, I mean maybe maybe. Yeah. I like to envision it, and this is probably just a little bit like applying too much of a modern lens. I like to think of it as like kind of like that guy in Law and Order SBU who was working as a detective and then he was going to like law school at night, and then he becomes one of the prosecutors. Oh, that's what I'm picturing, Like, that's Fred Wilson for me forever. Now, So what are you gonna do? The owner, Henry D. Winters, kept and retained very detailed records, which I have to say just doesn't seem like something that would be common for the time. So thank goodness, yeah, but thank goodness, George was able to identify almost signature on the register for the date of their stay, verifying this detail in the timeline, so they knew specifically this is where their

30:51 last letter was sent from. We know that, like they definitely did make it to this rooming house. They stayed there and then speaking to mister Winters, the pair learned more to bolster the case against Williams. He recalled not only both women very well, but that a man had called on them in the parlor. I mean that is scandalous where a heated discussion about land had taken place, and it's so specific. He's a little eavesdropper right. Well, I mean he's like sitting at the front desk, which is like, you know, presumably ten feet from the palla.

31:34 So I like to picture him like at the door with a glass. Well, I think, you know, like in a rooming house like this, the parlor would be you know, it's a it's a common area. Yeah, And I kind of like to picture him more so being like, these are two unaccompanied women and I'm hearing this man having like heated discussion with them, and he's like keeping it ear, you know, like not to the door with a glass, but like just keeping an ear, you know, keeping an eye on what's going. Yeah, like thinking like, well, this is very improper and just you know, making sure he doesn't need to go bust in there and bust some hats or something. Next, the pair located a Hood River laborer named j. R.

32:24 Reese that had previously done work for Norman Williams in April of nineteen hundred, roughly a month after the Nesbit women's sudden disappearance. He'd been clearing brush and stumps on the property that he would later return to the property to see. And this is, as he described, the goddamnedest pile of stuff you ever see, being burned in what the prosecution would eventually argue was being utilized as a funeral pyre. No. Yeah. They also spoke to one of Almah's acquaintances, Missus Riggs, who would say she'd been surprised, given their friendly relationship, that Almah hadn't said goodbye to her before leaving, though she hadn't really dwelled on it initially. She's like, well, you know, people live their lives. Yeah, But she'd spoken to Williams multiple times since the women's apparent departure and he'd confirmed they were well. They were doing fine, according to letters he stated he'd received from the Nesbit women.

33:40 Since I smell a lie or show us the letters, Yeah, Like, wouldn't that be great evidence against or you know, to prove that you didn't kill them, right, You're like, they're super duper alive. They wrote me these letters. Yeah, and then if you don't have them, it's like, oh, okay, obviously you were lying for some reason because you wanted people to think they were Okay. You mean those made up letters that never existed. Hi? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Y. While Williams was in custody, Detective Fred Wilson or you know, DDA whatever, he's wearing a lot of hats, Okay, he visited him and questioned him about the bloody burlap that had been recovered from the homestead. Williams explained that it was a mayor's blood.

34:33 She had birthed a cult, nothing nefarious. He also detailed that prior to construction of the henhouse, an outhouse had stood on that part of the property. However, both other workers from the Bellingham Sawmill and Missus Riggs provided details contradicting his story. The cult was born at the sawmill, hundreds of miles away and also obviously much later. Wow, they were like there was no cult born when he was living on that property. H Additionally, missus Riggs could confirm that no outhouse building had existed in the spot prior to the hen house. It's such a weird thing to lie about in the first place.

35:24 Is it, Like, because then they might there might be like period blood there and that would make sense. I don't know. I don't even think that he was going for that. I think what he was trying to argue is that like, oh, you know, when that was an outhouse building, you know that just that that burlab it just got like shoved in there, and then later you know, it was like reconstructed as a hen house. And I so that's how that ended up there. Okay, that's very odd. It's just why why why why? He's not smart? No, oh, he's really not, smark. He does not think through his stories, which is like a good thing, I guess, But yeah, I mean, stay stupid forever. Though Norman Williams was arrested in connection with the forgery, he was also eventually charged with the murders of Louisa and Alma.

36:18 Nesbit because duh. The trial commenced at the Wasco County Courthouse on May twenty fourth, nineteen oh four, relying heavily on circumstantial evidence and testimony from community members. And to be fair, a lot of what we've talked about is, you know, it's kind of based on eyewitness testimony, like these third parties whose memories can be unreliable, and you know, circumstantial evidence can you know, still be evidence, but like you gotta really stack it up, right, I mean, reporters and sketch artists came from neighboring cities Portland, Seattle, Spokane, even as far as San Francisco. Kind of a big deal.

37:06 Newspaper coverage detailed the immense crowd gathered in and around the courthouse for the Great Homestead Murder's case. Fred Wilson gave the opening statement to the jury, now acting as prosecutor after having previously worked the case as a detective. Lovable you, little night school graduate. You but he really knows the ins and outs of the case. So it's kind of good. Nobody knows it better than him, I feel like, right, so what the hell? The prosecution argued that the women's disappearance, combined with William's actions and statements, demonstrated that murder had occurred.

37:49 In contrast, the defense emphasized the absence of bodies and the possibility that the women had simply left the area. Henry E. McGinn, arguably Oregon's most highly regarded criminal lawyer at the time, represented Williams and did not put him on the stat on the stand, instead relying solely on corpus delicti to free his client. They probably didn't want to put him on the stand because he's a fucking idiot. Yeah, I mean, he kind of seems like he could be a little bit of a loose cannon. And in general, they they do say it is unwise to go up to the stand when you know, yeah, I mean, but you know, do what you will. It's just your life on the line, you know what I mean. Like, yeah, historically it's a mistake. But after all, this tension between suspicion and proof has to find many a courtroom proceeding.

38:54 The testimony of H. D. Langele Bert Stranahan's former partner in the fashion Livery Stables, proved critical to the prosecution's case. He testified that he had seen Williams driving into Hood River alone at approximately eight point thirty on the morning of March ninth, by the Parkdale Road, the same one he had taken out of Hood River the evening prior. The prosecution proffered a blackboard to present a hand drawn chalk map of Hood River to show that Williams could not have driven to the Hood River Railroad station without first having passed the fashion Livery stables. Ah. Additionally, the chief train dispatcher for the Oregon Railway and Navigation Company testified that the only westbound train to pass through Hood River on the morning of March ninth, nineteen hundred, had done so hours prior to Langle witnessing Williams driving into town.

40:01 The prosecution stated that William's assertion that he had driven the women to the train station was therefore patently false. What a dumb dumb If you. Were driving them to the train station, why didn't we see them? And why wouldn't you have delivered them to the train station in time to take said train? Yeah, you know those women, they always be taken forever to get ready. Five more minutes. The most surprising witness testified just prior to the state resting a literal woman, doctor l Victoria Hampton. She was a young chemist and microscopist in Portland, Women in Stem for reals Ease, Women in Stem in the early nineteen hundred love It.

40:52 Okay, Okay trailblazers. Her testimony was critical to the case establishing the George had discovered on the homestead was indeed human hair attached to the bloody gunny sack, because of course, if you're identifying blood hair, there's always the possibility that it's animal. And his story was that it came from a horse, but not only making a human right, yeah, but not only was it human. She testified that it belonged to Alma Nesbit. So wow, that's crazy that they could figure that out back then, and it was a woman who did it.

41:35 Right. Her determination was based on a brand new German serum test discovered just a year prior, So this is like, whoa science? Yeah, so he probably didn't even know they could figure that kind of shit out because he's dumb. For one, he probably doesn't keep up on German news. Or science. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I have to imagine nobody, just like in the general populace, was aware that that is something they could even like determine with any certainty. So it's wild it's wild, the wild, wildwidth.

42:16 Yeah, it was interesting because her testimony was that, you know, what was found on the gunnysack belonged to Almah, but she was the daughter. So some of the source material focused on the long strands of silver hair which would have come from the mother, But there were you know, articles and things that talked about there also being brown hair that was entangled in there. So in any case, I don't know how they felt like they could really determine that it belonged to a specific person. That part is a little bit dubious to me, because the serum test is really just telling them like, this is human not animal. But huh, I'm gonna give them a pass because I feel like he like literally handed them a slam dunk. It was, I mean, calm on, I mean just so much of his whole story was just so clearly nonsense. It was like, listen, if you're gonna tell us a story, as the audience, we have to be prepared sometimes to suspend our disbelief to a degree. I'm not a magician, though. These are all just like made up.

43:35 It's just ridiculous. Yeah, but he seemed to have gotten away with it, like quite a few timesh or possibly so he probably just didn't even He's like, who's even paying attention? Right? Trust me, I've already gotten away with killing quite a few broads, okay, And the last time they caught me try and I got put away for about fifteen seconds. Oh, I'm gonna make sure it sticks. The prosecution's theory of the case was that Williams was simply an opportunist and polygamist whose marriage to Alma was motivated not by affection for her, but by the desire to lay claim on her land. Jurors were asked to decide whether the evidence presented was sufficient to conclude not only that the Nesbits were dead, but that Williams had killed them. It was an enormous decision, and in the end they reached a verdict in less than four hours. When the jury comes back that quickly, it's almost never good for the defendant.

44:43 I'm just gonna say. Okay, I was like, you seem happy, but I am sorry. I know it's very scary because it definitely like you could see this going either way for sure, But yeah, usually a quick turnaround means a conviction. It's not scientific, But I mean, I think I've heard so many many different lawyers and prosecutors talk about that. How like they start to get a sense of like what people are thinking and debating in the jury room based on like how long it's taking, and so they yeah, it's really interesting. Like the psychology of it is is fascinating. Public executions were not unheard of in early Oregon, though they were already becoming less common by the early twentieth century. On July twenty first, nineteen oh five, at forty eight years old, Daniel Norman Williams was the sixty sixth and last man publicly hanged in Oregon. Ooh, the sixty sixth in the sixth month of the year.

45:47 Oh dude, you know this is so weird, Okay because my episode is like early nineteen hundreds and there's like a six to sixty sixth element in it too. Uh, it like doesn't connect. With the nineteen hundred's part, but like it's still in my episode, so it's kind of weird. I didn't even really think about this six sixty six until you said, woo, that's crazy. The execution marked the end of the legal case, but not the end of the story. Even after the sentence was carried out, the central mystery remained unsolved. The bodies of Louisa and Almond Nesbit were never found because he burned them like a I mean if that's a lot harder to do than people realize. So that is one thing that kind of bothers me about the case, is that, like, I mean, the amount of heat that's required to actually like successfully like burn a body beyond recognition. And who knows, maybe he burned them to a certain point and realized, oh wait, I don't have like a proper crematorium. Now I'm just gonna bury the bodies somewhere, and they just were never just go who there's how could how could we ever know?

47:07 But without bodies, uncertainty survives the story of Alma and Louisa Nesbit still lingers in hood Rivers Historical Memory, part tragedy, part legal landmark, and part unanswered question, part asshole. Oh there's a lot of vast holdery. Yeah, it's just. Oh, I still I keep thinking, like, just thank goodness they had a family member who cared that much about it, I know, like travel and search for them. I mean, especially back then, because it's like to go the distance from you know Iowa or I presume he was still in Iowa. But to travel that distance, I mean you had to do that by train that you know.

47:55 I don't know how long it took to travel by train from Iowa to Oregon, but I think I would imagine, you know, maybe a day or two, like a minute. Yeah, It's it's not like, oh, I'll just hop in my car and six hours later I'm there, or hop on a plane and you know, three or four hours later I'm there. It's it's a lot. And knowing that, like he's basically gonna have to be like the untrained detective. Like he came. He came with receipts and to collect more receipts, and he was like see all of these receipts, and he did the damn thing, like he was literally like unpaid law enforcement. Yeah. I hope he lived a happy life.

48:38 I mean, that's so hard to say, or you know, you can't. I know, it doesn't never go away, we know that, but yeah, I just hope he had a good life after that. You know, nothing else crazy happened. God, I know, like this man has just already been through entirely too much, thank you, But yeah, I don't. I don't have more more about George. I didn't see that there was anything in terms of, you know, really follow up about him and like what his life was like after all of this. That's probably good. That like reporters weren't bothering the show. I mean, in a way, I do think that sometimes it's healthier for the narrative and and truly for the for the real life events to be that you know, there's a verdict in this case and that's the end of this of the story. You know, like he is a victim of these crimes, but like his role is done, like I mean, and he did all the heavy liftings so he could use it, he could use a little rest, if I'm being honest, I think that's one area where in more modern times, probably a lot of people that that's where a lot of the suffering comes from, right, I mean, I think kind of either whether you're related to the victim or the perpetrator, it's just that it's like this never leaves you, like it just follows you.

50:09 So I mean, hopefully, hopefully he went on to have a long and happy life that you know, did not get him into the papers, unless that was something he wanted, like a birth announcement or you know people announced like when they got engaged and married and things like that. You know, hopefully somebody wrote him a really fucking awesome oh bit, you know. But other than that, do you think he's dead by now? I'm just kidding. I know, I'm just kidding. I want to think he lived forever. Okay, So here's the dilemma now, is that, as you're asking that, I thought I could just sneakily put on some chapstick and my face is Oh, at least you weren't picking your nose, so we can leave it exactly exactly.

51:06 I wasn't doing anything too weird. That's so funny, you guys. We are human. We do occasionally have to like chapstick, drink some water. I'm forever doing my eye drops, hope. I don't think we've ever left in any of the eye drop shots because those are disturbing. Probably probably not, Maybe, I don't know. We gotta ask Taylor. I don't think i've ever She's like, what, I don't cut anything out? Can you imagine it would be terrible? We know she doesn't. She works hard. I know, I know, well do you think Tara. Would give us some answers. You know, it just might. It just might. I was gonna say, I do have somebody that was involved in this case that we're probably gonna have to talk about again. What listen in old timey newspapers and the things you can find, And I was like, wait, isn't he the is it the detective lawyer?

52:10 Die? Guys? Honestly, if we like revisit the area like in this time period again, I would not be surprised if he came up again. That's not what I have in mind. I did come across something. I'm okay, it could end up being like a bonus. I'm not sure yet because I have to I have to dig into it and see what I can find. But wowsers, what a time like. They didn't call it the wild West for nothing? Yeah, okay, truly. Wow? Okay, what Deck or you us? I'm just a PNW one.

52:51 You don't have a trad wife, Deck. You have a fifties housewife? Deck? I do. Yeah, yeah, we've got the housewife one that didn't really feel like totally different. Yeah. I didn't really feel totally on brand, just because also she was like a secret wife. Yeah, so I hope I didn't do shit for him. Honestly, I hope she didn't do his laundry churn, his butter dishes, nothing. His literal or metaphorical butter. Okay, I'm gonna lay them out. I've got them in just like the slightest like arch shape in front of me, Like I didn't just lay them out totally flat and straight.

53:35 So just run your fingers over him and maybe I'll say one to stop. Okay, do one handed so you don't get confused. Okay, stop ew Okay. So we have the King of Pentacles. Okay, but we drew it in the reverse. Oh. I feel like this is like for me, the visual of this is like very of frontier time. Right uh huh, like wilderness. And I also feel like that's kind of like what he thought of himself to be. Oh my god, he was just turn upside down. He was the worst for real, for real though, that was that's so funny. I feel like in a flash, that's sort of like where my brain went. So King of Pentacles our keywords are security, material success, pragmatism, stability, strength, and worldly power. It's kind of the vibes I was getting from that. Yeah, for sure. In many decks, this king sits on a throne and wears rich garments and a crown. Sometimes he appears with a bull, symbol of strength, virility, and tenacity, and also dumb assory stubborn. Yeah. In a reading, he may represent an actual person, in which case he's

55:05 usually a mature man who exercises worldly power and authority. I can't wait to see what the reverse Yes, I was gonna say, which I think is why we drew it in reverse. When reversed, the King of Pentacles indicates sluggishness, delays, and or obstacles to material success. Hmmm. Probably because you don't understand the law or how literally anything works. Sometimes it shows low energy or insecurity. You feel stuck, but you don't have the drive to get out of your rut. I'm just gonna take her land. Oh my god, I mean wow, I don't know, Caitlin an insecure man? To me, I feel like he wouldn't have six wives.

55:52 I think that's exactly who has six wives? Okay, you're gonna absolutely shit. Okay. In the reverse interpretation, if the card represents an actual person, he may be mercenary, course, dull, witted, or even corrupt. What's mercenary mean? I feel like I ask you this a lot, but I forget. I you know, in terms of like an adjective, I feel like I struggle to describe that. So I'm gonna look like I know that, like a mercenary like in a wartime, is like somebody, it's like a paid soldier. Basically, oh yeah, oh my god, okay. So, as an adjective, mercenary describes a person, action or motive driven solely by a desire for money or material gain, often disregarding ethics, loyalty, or integrity.

56:52 That's literally the perfect word for him. It so is also dull witted. Oh my god, just you cannot make this shut up. It characterizes behavior that is greedy, grasping, or profit oriented. Hmm. I'm glad I asked what it meant, because that definition. Lost her. I the combination of dull, witted and mercenary. I mean it just oh chef's kiss. Yeah, it just it doesn't get better than that. Oh what was the last word? One was course, Yes, mercenary, course, dull witted, or even corrupt. Well, I'm obviously it follows he tried to forge a signature, so like right, my god. No, honestly, each of these like has a very specific application, Like you might think that, well, it feels a little bit redundant. No, no, it's not. No, No, They're all accurate and important in their own way. In a reading about money, your finances are stagnant, you might even incur losses, perhaps because you're stuck in old patterns and have resisted making changes. You're worried about money and or don't handle your resource as well, which I have to assume is yeah, that feels right.

58:24 And stuck in his old ways of killing his wives for their possessions, just. All the murdering. God, thank God for the last one who, like he didn't get to take advantage of or do something worse to. I mean, I don't know, it's unclear which of the wives fell victims other than Alma. It's yeah, I just. Like to assume they got him before he did anything to the last lady he was with. I know well, and I have honestly, I feel like her chances are not great, just because she was actually in Oregon and it was such a short time turnaround, and we know he poisoned multiple wives. I feel like Yeah, it feels as though there's a pretty high likelihood that maybe she was one of them that didn't make it. No, in my mind, no, she was saved. Although to be fair, if she had been killed prior to Alma arriving in Oregon, I mean, espouse's death doesn't necessarily nullify your marriage, but it would, like I feel like that would have been more of a point of it wouldn't matter that he had married that woman as much if she was deceased, if that makes sense. Sounds awful to say, because that makes it sound like, oh, it doesn't matter. But I'm

59:54 just saying, like, if it's a you know, a deceased part, very suspicious. Ye. Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of the woman. You said he was already with another woman. In Bellingham. Yeah, so that's who I was thinking of. Like I hope, oh he got caught before, yes, he could do anything to her. Well yeah, I mean I think she was saved by the literal bell in Bellingham. I can't imagine though, like, oh my god, like who was I with? What did I escape? I know, like what almost happened to me? I mean, very very scary for that woman, Like that was very much, very possibly almost you. If the rating is about your job, the king reversed may mean you're bored with your work but can't find something better. Perhaps you've sacrificed your passion for security or your job maybe in jeopardy, and you feel insecure. In a reading about love, a relationship may offer stability, but little excitement or romance.

1:01:07 Routine or responsibility may drain your vitality. Perhaps you feel stuck in a relationship for financial reasons. Yeah, And I just I feel like the thing that sticks out to me here too, is that it says routine or responsibility may drain your vitality. And so much of what I focused on early on is just kind of like the I mean it's definitely it's routine, but it's also just like it's the drudgery of the responsibility and the burden of homesteadying in this like very rural and yeah, you know you're you're just barely at the edges of the wilderness in hood River in like this point in history.

1:01:53 It's like this is like barely a little town. Yeah, that to me, like that that that's another major linkage. Oh man, is that it? Yeah? That be that I mean, it was enough it was like, oh it was honny, Yeah, it was right. They own the night. Wow, so funny. I hope someday that they find some bones and they are able to miraculously figure out who it is. Honestly, that that would be really cool. And I feel I feel like with genetic genealogy, like that's something that's like, it's very it's very much possible these days. Yeah, so I think it's entirely possible that at some point, you know, their remains could be discovered and you know, maybe they can be interred in a more respectful I have to imagine a more respectful way than whatever Norman did with them.

1:02:56 Norman Baits, I know, such a creat name, and I just he probably killed his mom too, wouldn't surprise me. But I have no evidence of that. Sorry, tell you Normans out there, it's only creepy if you're a murderer. Well, yeah, you see, it's it's the murdering that really gets us upset, which I feel like is fair, you know, I think, so, don't at me if you disagree. If you're not upset by murder, we don't want you around. Yeah. Yeah, I'm not interested in a discourse about that. With you. Sorry, please meet the country the world, Please go into space. Thank you? Yeah, you and Elon just go ahead and get on his rocket. Oh man, well, have a creepy day.

1:03:45 We'll see you next Thursday day, nasty Thursday. Oh boy. Every time you say Nesbit, all I can think of is toy story when buzz light Ear is Missus Nesbit, when he goes crazy, you remember that. Totally Missus Nesbit. I just keep thinking about Nina Nesbit and that's all I got. I don't know who that is. Yeah, she's one of my favorite singers. Oh that would also remind me of missus Nesbit.

1:04:28 I just it's missus Nesbit. It's just it's it's always that for you, all day long. Okay, buzz Lightear losing a ship, that's what it is. Well fair enough. You know, we can't help the associations that we make in our brains. Really can't