The Hart Family Tragedy: Viral Sensation to Cliffside Crash

0:00 If it weren't for how things ended, the couple might be remembered as being a nearly unequaled example of unconditional love and inclusion, a family formed out of genuine desire for connection. Instead, they'll go down in history as a horrific example of just how malicious the unchecked abuse of two women help end on being white saviors really can be. Okay, just start intro.

0:42 We've only done it like almost 200 times. Yep. At least almost. Okay. Hi, Cassie. Hi, Caitlyn. Hi, creepy people. Hello! Helloooo. We did it. It's like there's an audience in the room or something. What? Weird. Whoa. This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and the whole thing spooky in the Pacific Northwest. PNW, if you're nasty.

1:25 Yeah, and you are. We know it. We've heard about you. We do a terrible reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into whatever we're talking about that day. Yes, we do. We love it. Actually, I've got our deck charging as we speak. Okay. Ready to go. How do we charge that dick? Selenite. Selenite. I couldn't tell if that question was rhetorical. So I mean, it was kind of for anyone who doesn't know, I guess, what we're talking about. I know. That's what I realized. I got partway through and was like, oh, I think she's actually asking.

2:07 Asking for a friend. Yeah. For my creepy friends, all of you. All of your creepy friends. Should I do a little show off of my shirt? It's kind of in frame mostly. Yeah. Okay. Let's tell people what it says if they're not watching. Yes. It says, it's not a crime to be gay unless you're a murderer. That is true. Beyond the Rainbow podcast, BTR. If you're nasty. Thank you, CJ. Yes. They gave us so much swag. We've got all of the swag. I brought my witchy hoodie to her tonight. And you'll notice that I put on your side of the altar.

2:50 Obviously, our fabulous candles, which I've been dying to show off, but on your side, I specifically put a pumpkin. Oh, thank you. You're so welcome. I put my little piggy out and my, I think it's lace, I get my heart with a little drossy hole. Oh, that girl. It's pretty. Pretty. I got a little evil eye out, which is funny because I looked at my bracelets today and I looked at the evil eye one to grab, but it was like blue and it didn't go with what I was wearing. So I was like, I don't want me that, but now I should have it. Dang it. I guess so. I also just in this moment, notice that the top of our candles, the little tin cover, it's an eyeball.

3:33 It's an eyeball. It's an eyeball. It sees everything. It sees all. I'm also super excited because I put up my new shot. It's so cute. You got all your stuff and things all by my shows. I've got so many crystals. I'm realizing that with our video settings and stuff, you can't necessarily see everything that's on there. Super clearly. You can tell it's some widgee, shenanigans and whatnot. I'm enough to do some photos so that you can see everything. Yeah, some close up shots. The other thing, we've got a fun little cauldron.

4:14 So when we go to light the candles for tarot, we got to set up the bubbling action. We'll see if my idea works. Okay. Because I think it looks cool. I'm excited. I'm excited for the altar today. So excited. Spooky season altars are fun. Yeah. I love it. All right. Well, speaking of things that we don't love, should I tell my case? I guess. If you must. All right. I'm going to start by reading you a summary of a report produced by the California Highway Patrol.

4:55 Okay. So, you know, really juicy, not at all dry. Oh, yeah. Feel like you're lying. I mean, well, it's a report. So it does tend to be sort of like facts of the situation. And there's not a lot of emotion in it. That's where I come in. It's very emotional. Yeah. I'm feeling all of the things. So on March 26, 2018, at approximately 1538 hours. Side note, 338 PM. For those of us not exclaiming urah or kua throughout the day, those apparently are the different branches of the military.

5:39 And they both have their own sort of call like, yeah, but what's ours? I don't know. I feel like BMW if you're nasty. That's not that's kind of too long to be a call. Yeah. Yeah. Creepy people. Hello. Hello. Oh, it is. Hello. We figured it out. Oh, we got there. Okay. The Yucaya Communications Center received an emergency call from a passing tourist. Kirsten Pelser of Germany. I think I'm saying that right. We're going to go with it.

6:20 Pelser advised she was at the one Creek crossing on Highway 1 in Mendocino County. She advised there was a brown vehicle on its roof down the embankment in the ocean. Oh, that's bad. Yes. Knowing what I do now and especially knowing your reaction to that statement, I kind of feel like an asshole for focusing on a detail like who buys a brown car. Right. I was like, what shade of brown? I mean, you know, there are people in the world that they're favorite color is brown, which is fine.

7:00 I feel like I'm just picturing kind of the old station wagon. Yeah. Sort of a vibe. I guess that's wood paneling, but that it's brown. I don't know. I really, I got, I got a got side track there. You, uh, I was thinking of Bella. Oh, God. I don't know brown brown. More torn Phoenix. My favorite color is dirt. Well, stay tuned for this and other details. CHP officers coming to in Sanchez arrived on scene at approximately 1727 hours.

7:41 24 27 no 527. Math is hard and I'd appreciate it if you don't judge me. Uh, okay. This next section, I will be temporarily redacting names. Sometimes I just need the suspense and I want anyone who knows what case it is to get the sweet sweet dopamine rush of correctly guessing it while they're in their car or wherever they might be. If you're at the gym, I don't suggest like yelling it out up to you dealer's choice.

8:23 According to officer Coveington, there was no evidence located at the scene. He was unable to locate either acceleration marks, tire friction marks or breaking furrow marks. Oh, that's, that would be something you think you would find. Yeah, you might, you might think so. Upon recovery of the vehicle, it was discovered that the driver of Woodland, Washington was still seated in the driver's seat. Oh. Her wife was trapped between the roof and the seats in the rear of the vehicle.

9:04 It was also noted that the speedometer was pinned at 90 miles per hour. Indicating to officer Coveington, the vehicle was running and in motion just prior to the collision with the rocks below. Did they think it was actually going 90? Yes. Holy shit. Yes. High speed for kind of a winding coastal road. Yeah. Yeah. Neither officers nor emergency personnel at the scene were able to locate any evidence of the vehicle colliding with the embankment as it traversed towards the title zone below.

9:47 Based upon the California Highway Patrol investigation, it is their belief a felony has been committed. This incident was reported under its report number 2018-8630. Now the truth of these people's lives and the awful crash was waiting to be recovered at the bottom of the reportedly nearly 150 foot cliff drop. Along with the bodies of multiple children in their care. No. If it weren't for how things ended, the couple might be remembered as being a nearly unequaled example of unconditional love and inclusion.

10:35 A family formed out of genuine desire for connection. Instead, they'll go down in history as a horrific example of just how malicious the unchecked abuse of two women help end on being white saviors really can be. Ew. Yeah. This has got a lot of ik. Now some of you might have already caught on that this is the case of the Hart family murder suicide. Yeah. I heard about this. I don't know a lot of the details, so yay! Here we go. For those that remain uninitiated regarding the case, the Hart family was formed by Jennifer Jean Hart, born June 4th, 1979, and Sarah Margaret Hart, born April 8th, 1979.

11:32 Early records pertaining to the couple revealed that they were both from South Dakota but had since moved to Alexandria, Minnesota. Minnesota. Minnesota. To many outsiders, the pair had a loving relationship with Plenty despair, so much so in fact that they made the decision to adopt three children reportedly or presumably so that the siblings could remain together. I really like, I want to be like, oh, that's like really sweet, but I know how it ends, so it's hard to say. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's not. There's. Oh.

12:12 Not a lot of. Yeah. The thought of that is really sweet though for everyone who's doing that where it doesn't end this way. Yes. And I think that's always the ideal to try to keep the kids together. They do typically try to prioritize keeping kids together in the foster system. This is kind of tragic because it just means that, well, it's all of them. Yeah. It's just going to get a lot worse. So the couple received licensure to provide child foster care in Douglas County, Minnesota, beginning in April 2005.

12:59 Then in September of 2006, Abigail, Hannah and Marcus aged six months, two and five years old respectively, came to live with the hearts. Literally, babies, they came from an underprivileged background. Their biomom having terminated her parental rights voluntarily to try to give her children a chance at a better life, which is pretty excruciating to think about given, like you said, knowing how this ends. Yeah. It shouldn't have ended that way. She wanted her kids to have a better life and that's where it should have gone instead.

13:42 Yeah. The children were reportedly placed with a couple through the Family Resource Center in Minnesota. Right off the bat, things seem to be going really well according to their case worker. It's just another one of those things that makes it that much harder to process what happens in the end. Like this started off great, seemingly, but it's so hard to know what's going on in, you know, a family's home also. Yeah. Things can appear one way on the outside. Behind closed doors. It's very different. Yes.

14:22 They were being taken to appointments for speech therapy and given their prescribed medications as directed. All good stuff. Kind of the minimum bar though. I feel like for parents. The case worker was so impressed that when three additional children needed to be placed, Devonte, Jeremiah and Sierra, the couple was already a shoe in. In December 2006, the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services removed Devonte, Jeremiah, Sierra, and a fourth child, their brother, Dante, from the care of a relative, their aunt, Priscilla Celestein after a case worker visit.

15:09 She has like the most beautiful name. I was just thinking that. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like this was basically a surprise visit, which I'm given to understand is not necessarily unusual. This is a pretty fucked up situation. Oh no. And the reporting around the incident leading to their removal from the home is variable. But from what I gather, the children were not permitted unsupervised visitation with their mother at the time. And when they found her present at the time of the surprise home visit, the aunt was at work. And it basically set an unstoppable freight train into motion.

15:53 Oh no. I mean, I could see how that could happen though. Yeah. I mean, if you're a kid and you're home alone while your aunt and your current caregiver is at work, your mom shows up. I mean, that's such an impossible situation. In May of 2007, Celestein filed a petition to adopt all four children while they were being cared for by the state of Texas. However, her petition was denied by the Harris County District Court. She even filed a motion for a new trial, but that was denied as well.

16:36 It's unclear why the hearts did not also take custody of the fourth child, Dante, or where he was placed. But the whole thing with the foster system is trying to keep kids together whenever they can. So already, I just feel like kind of heated about that turn of events. That's just like one facet of it. Yeah. There's also a law in the state of Texas that they are supposed to exhaust every possible resource to place children with family. And here they are denying this woman the right to care for her own family because of this singular incident with the biological mom.

17:22 Yeah, that doesn't seem right. No, no. And I'm not saying that that is an okay thing to have happening when a caseworker pops in. And obviously, there are going to be consequences for something like that. If this is truly someone that the children should not be around unsupervised, but give her the opportunity to make that right. Yeah. It just doesn't make sense to me. Not long after being placed with the Hart's, Hannah made an allegation of abuse. And this was just the first. At two years old. Oh, what?

18:03 Two? At two. She told authorities that one of the women had beaten and bruised her with a belt. Oh. And asked for their side of the story, Jennifer and Sarah reportedly claimed that Hannah had simply fallen down the stairs. That's like something very specific for a two-year-old to say. Exactly. And I'm glad you said that because my next sentence, while the claim was allegedly investigated, official statements on the matter are that there wasn't enough evidence of wrongdoing to warrant changes to custody. Hmm.

18:44 Surely most two-year-olds aren't in the habit of lying about being beaten by their caregiver. I mean, and with a belt. But I guess when there are two nice white lesbians, contradicting the story of a person of color, much less a two-year-old, it's no surprise that the claims aren't apparently taken all that seriously. Ah. In case this isn't abundantly clear at this point in my storytelling or something that people just were not aware of about the case, this is, like I said, a white lesbian couple that has adopted black children, several black children.

19:35 This whole time, Celeste kept fighting for all of the kids. This had her tied up in knots with the courts for several years. When the next allegation occurs, you might think they would allow her to take custody. Take them back from, you know, the home where one of their guardians is seemingly almost certainly abusing them. But you'd only do that if you believed the victim and cared enough to do something about it before things got worse. They cared enough to take them away when-- Right.

20:17 From their aunt when their mom showed up, but were they bruised and abused? Nope. They were in good health, which is going to be important for later. Because we're going to see that that certainly changes. It's July of 2010 when the aunt's struggle is dealt kind of the final blow. But that's months prior to another report of abuse. In November 2010, the police in Alexandria, Minnesota interview Abigail Hart, who was six at the time regarding abuse allegations after a teacher discovered extensive bruising, sending from her sternum to her naval.

21:00 Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's like, okay, is that sounds like basically her whole torso? Yeah. Is that what we're saying? Is that accurate to say? It sounds like it. Yeah. The girl says, "Genefer Hart hit her with a closed fist, put her head in a cold bath, and hit her again." This is according to the court records. She was then grounded. The girl told police, which meant she had to stay in bed and miss lunch. What the fuck? We're not using food as a weapon now.

21:41 Jesus Christ. I know. I'm so like the cold bath and then my whole body felt like you dumped like a cold bucket of water on me. Yeah. I didn't. But, this is like that again, that's like so specific, like who would make that up right to be abused? Like, okay, they hit me or whatever, but like putting your head in a cold bath, like no one's going to come up with that except fucked up people. Right. Right. It's such a specific to think of that yourself as a punishment. And then for that to be the thing that the child says is, yeah, I agree. It's bizarre that they're like, oh, that doesn't seem believable.

22:25 Even when Sarah Hart ends up pleading guilty to abusing Abigail, an ascentance to a year of probation in relation to the misdemeanor domestic assault, nothing changes. Okay. Remember, this is an allegation that she brought against Jennifer. Okay. So, we're starting to see a dynamic where Jennifer maybe is kind of the, for lack of a better term. She's like, she's the cold leader. She's the ring leader. Sarah told police, she was the one who hit Abigail, even though the girl told authorities her mother Jennifer had done it.

23:13 The next day, all six of the heart children were taken out of public schools. They would never attend public school again. That does not seem right. Well, and we've seen this in other cases. It's a bold move, but it typically unfortunately serves the abusers well because it takes them out of a situation where they have the oversight of mandatory reporters. How is that not a giant red flag after a teacher comes forward seeing these bruises and stuff and then they pull them out of school?

23:54 Obviously, they don't want teachers finding these things. Right. I don't know how we go about sort of flagging that in a way that makes that something that it's like, okay, this is an actionable, now we need to monitor this closer. I don't know. I think it's a major red flag when all of a sudden there's allegations of abuse and we just decide, oh, we're going to homeschool now. Based on what? I mean, they certainly don't seem like they have any particular set of qualifications to homeschool.

24:36 Number one, people usually don't. Yeah. Oh, okay, I forgot to delete this note. I added in when I was editing my chicken scratch notes. There's a lot of asterix and it is in all caps. The energy is really something. Normally, I would have remembered to delete this, but I think subconsciously my witchy brain knew we'd probably, we'd need to get the giggles in where we could. Oh, no, okay. So sometimes it takes more than one session to go through and like make all of the words one episode.

25:22 And this is what I wrote to myself, so I would know where I left off. This is where you left off. You beautiful, magical and easily distracted unicorn. But it's kind of funny. It just says, "Yo bitch, you left off here," or something like that. That one, I must have, I was feeling some type of way. That's funny. In October 2011, mere months after Sarah sentencing, the heart family is still living in Alexandria, Minnesota, taking part in the Occupy Minneapolis demonstration.

26:04 But by 2012, the heart family was headed west. There's another huge red flag when we're relocating. Very, very far away. Yeah. Yeah. So that's concerning. It's again, it's tough to know how exactly to keep track of some of these things. How do we make sure that the red flags are being cataloged? Yeah. So to speak. Were they just the other kids, how many kids were there? At this point, there are six. Okay, that's what I thought. Is the three that were taken from the aunt, are they officially adopted, or are they still just foster children?

26:50 I'm not sure. I think they were adopted relatively quickly, which is actually really upsetting because the aunt was actively trying to do that herself. Yeah. And they basically were like, nope. I didn't think that that could be a thing if like a family member was still trying to do that. Right. Okay. Yeah. My question was, how can you like take foster children out of the state? Like, yeah. Are you allowed to even do that? Was my question, but I guess a third of that? I don't think that it mattered in this case. And there also has to be somebody that's willing to actually keep track of that. Like, they have to be aware so that they're able to take any sort of action on these issues.

27:37 And no one's keeping track. Spoilers. Sarah traveled to Portland to look for work with the intent of Jennifer and the children joining her later. No, we don't want you here. Well, the following year in 2013, the Hart family had settled into Westland, a bedroom community of Portland proper. While living there, it became apparent to a friend of the family that the children were being abused and deprived of food. There was an incident where essentially that all of the heart children were given like a half a slice of pizza.

28:26 And apparently when they went to bed that night, they took a little head count of the leftover pizza. And when they woke up and realized that somebody had taken additional slices while everybody else was sleeping, then they were punished. Oh my God. And in kind of a weird way, they basically were just forced to like lay on the floor for like hours from what I understand. It was very bizarre. What? And they did this from everything that I have heard and read and seen about this case. They did this in front of literally another adult who it sounds like was a parent, but she was a black woman.

29:15 And I'm thinking that is bold. That is bold. Wow. You think that this person is just going to roll over and accept that that's the way you discipline your children? Hopefully no one ever would. You are about to be so disappointed with humanity. I mean, yeah, I kind of figured over and over and over and over and over and over again. Not in this case. And the hearts learn that this was reported to Oregon child welfare. The couple quickly cuts off contact with that individual because that's the other, you know, that's the M.O.

29:59 Though reportedly the children were interviewed in the hindsight, it's clear that the children had been coached and cajoled into saying the right things and ultimately DHS dropped the case because of course they did. We've got something we're really excited to share with you guys. Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties. Do you love true crime, but are looking for something different? Do you like learning about cases so off the wall? They can't possibly be true. Do you love history, but want to hear about what they didn't teach you in school? Do you like laughing awkwardly about cases that are bizarre and a little strange?

30:42 And we have the podcast for you. Join me, Lindsay and me, Madison, for Yield Crime. Where we discuss the funny, strange and obscure crimes of yesterday. Listen every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you next time with another tale. As old as crime. Check them out, creepy people. I am air dropping a photo to Cassie.

31:23 This is a really hard photo to look at. I'm just going to tell you that. It's not a gruesome photo, but I think you're going to understand pretty quickly why it is so yucky. Okay. Hi. Then the moment that everyone familiar with the case has probably been waiting for. It's the infamous photo. Okay. Look at it. I don't want to. Is it too late to say no? Yes. Oh, I do remember saying this picture. Oh, God, that gives me chills. Yeah. Seeing you, seeing it, thinking about it myself.

32:05 I'm thinking about this child in that moment. It's just like, save me. Help me. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm going to give a little bit of a description here. Just obviously we got to have some background and for anybody that's not watching in one format or another and it's just listening. I want you to know what we're talking about. In November 2014, the Hart family attended a protest following a devastating jury decision in the Ferguson trial. The jury had declined to indict law enforcement in connection with the fatal shooting of Michael Brown.

32:53 At that very protest, a picture of Devon Day, who had, and there are several of these other photos, he had frequently sported a free hugs sign at activist events and other protests. So sweet. Is it? I mean, it seems there's some issues around consent that yeah, yeah. It's theory. It's theory. If that's like the kid's idea, right? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. This is a picture that was captured of him hugging a Portland police officer. The photo of course went insanely viral. I don't know if that's what we call it anymore.

33:35 It was everywhere. I'm trying to think of even the way to describe this. I feel like it's one of those sort of iconic type images. Yeah. And it only got bigger at a certain point and for very obviously sad reasons. Sad all the way around. This was at the height of some of the protests here in Portland and elsewhere in the country, which were seemingly all anyone could talk about. Though in I would argue in far too many instances, not exactly for the right reasons.

34:16 Yes. There was destruction of property. In the daily lives of people living in and around Portland and the other major cities where these events were taking place. And in some cases, physical violence was a contributing factor to sensational reporting around the events. But it whipped up a lot of fear and anger and anxiety and also racism. And this is always stuck with me. I actually had friends out of LA and other parts of California asking me if I was safe and I needed a place to stay.

35:02 Which feels really wild. And especially given the nature of like here we are, this is like these are, you know, demonstrations and protests designed to call attention to the fact that, you know, people of color in particular are not safe. And it feels very strange to be, you know, a white woman who there's so much concern for your well-being. Yeah. And it comes obviously, you know, from, in the case of someone who cares about you, like it's coming from a good place. But at the same time, it's like, oh, this is so not about me.

35:45 And yes, I am safe. And yeah, I don't know. Yeah. Not pretty bad. Like everything got like kind of out of control and then like went, I feel like it like went the opposite way of where it was, where it was originally supposed to go. It just was very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like. And that's what I mean, I guess, when I say that the conversations around it were focused on the wrong things. It's like it became all about sensationalizing, you know, the instances where there was property damage or, you know, disruption to traffic, things like that. And it wasn't about what it was about anymore.

36:27 Exactly. Which is upsetting. And obviously, you know, we know there were some, well, anyways, I'm not going to, I'm not even, I'm not, not even going to keep going down this road back to the family, which honestly I hate to call them, but I'm kind of hard pressed to come up with a better term in this moment. And I struggled with that as I was writing my notes too. I was like, this just is not a family. These are a loose grouping of people who happen to live under the same roof. I guess that's the better term.

37:09 There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What's the acronym? Oh, boy. That's no. We don't have time for that. All of that activism or more accurately virtue signaling in this case gains the heart family some notoriety. The family joined US Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont on stage at a presidential campaign rally stop in Vancouver in March of 2015. Excuse me in March of 2016. And I hate these women for tarnishing the good Senator's name, even in a tangential way, but more importantly, for how they used these children as props for their own online clout and just like, I don't know, general shits and giggles, just the amount of people that buy association just, ugh, it just, you got to feel like you want to take a hot shower with a wire brush, you know, I can't.

38:17 I can't. I simply called. She could. Everything tells me it wasn't them trying to escape their newfound status as racial justice activists that had them relocating by May 2017. Probably not. PopSos not. I think it's far more likely that while they enjoyed all of the attention, Jennifer and Sarah bought their new home in Woodland, Washington, because it was a different means of escape. The two story, three bedroom homes sat on two acres of land and was a far more isolated area of Clark County than where they had previously lived.

39:02 Three bedrooms. Wow. For six kids and two adults. Yeah. We all got six kids. Yeah. Anyways, I mean, that's the least of their issues. While living in that home, which I have to say, they clearly spared no expense decorating beautifully. I mean, parts of it anyway. Nor when it came to stalking the fridge. Hmm. The ship really goes downhill. Or at least what should have been some very obvious signs became more apparent. Like the time that Hannah Hart fled the home through a window and came to the neighbor's house for help stating that she and her siblings were being both abused physically and start.

39:59 God. The neighbors did return Hannah home. And when they followed up the next morning, it seemed like maybe the situation had been resolved. Or so they thought. How is that? Yeah. The only resolution for that is like legal punishment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Again, only if you believe the people reporting these things to you. And I don't know that they didn't believe them. It can be really tough to get involved in these types of situations because you only have so much power.

40:39 And if the authorities aren't necessarily acting on the information that they have, also, it doesn't sound like that initial incident was reported. So it doesn't really give the authorities anything to act on. But so this incident wasn't reported until months later when finally a relative of the heart family's neighbors placed a call to emergency services stating that he was concerned as he felt that the children living in the heart home were, and I quote, being highly abused.

41:20 I've heard snippets of this 911 call. It's really bizarre. It's just really bizarre in the sense that it's like if you're receiving this call, how are those children not immediately removed from the home while this is investigated? That's the part that's bizarre. Mm-hmm. Yeah, highly abused. Yeah. Cheers. Yeah. He explained the incident that occurred with Hannah, so how she'd come to their house in the middle of the night, like 1.30 a.m. Oh my God. And again, I know it can be really tough for people to decide when it's time to intervene in situations that they think might be abusive, but I think especially when you're talking about an insular family with homeschooled kids living in a somewhat rural community, especially air on the side of overreacting.

42:19 Also, if you receive a bullshit apology letter that both looks and sounds like it was penned by a live laugh love, sign heaven, Karen, haircut, heaven, virtue signaling piece of shit that they're trying to pass off is having been written by the child, the child desperately seeking your help. That's another great signal to maybe queue up some follow up questions at a bare minimum. Wow. So they had they wrote a letter for the child who tried to escape for help. Yeah.

43:00 I'm so sorry. Our cats died recently and I'm very upset. I'm not handling my emotions well. So I'm faking that I'm being abused. Because that totally seems like the logical thing for a teenager to do, right? I mean, I guess you don't know how people react to grief, but it just doesn't seem kind of wild. Yeah. Yeah, especially because they really didn't see these kids a lot, which is always concerning. When you have a house full of six kids and you don't hear or see kids, that's not good. Not a great sign.

43:41 Kids are loud and they take a lot of fucking space. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In March of 2018, Washington State, DHS opened up a CPS investigation that identified the heart children as potential victims of alleged abuse or neglect. For well over a week, neighbors were sneaking food to the kids. Oh my God. A list of food items would be given to them, which those neighbors would then provide. They were sneaking it to them. They were hiding it out in the yard. Wow. If you're having to do that, how are the police not there?

44:25 My next line. If children are begging you for food and you also have to hide that you're helping them get food, that's all the red flags. Wow. And this went on, like I said, for I think it was nine or ten days. They're giving them like, you know, jars of peanut butter. And at one point, I think one of the specific items that was mentioned was like they asked for 30 tortillas. Oh. DHS attempted to make contact with the heart family, but were ultimately unsuccessful.

45:06 During the same time period, others close to the heart family started noticing red flags as well. Like Sarah's friend Cheryl, who she sent a text to stating she was so sick, she might have to go to the hospital. So she was basically like kind of trying to call in to work because they were co-workers. This was the last text message that Cheryl would ever receive from Sarah. The very next day, the family was in the Newport, Oregon area in the morning, according to police. They believed that the family continued southbound on Route 101 to Legit, California, then onward to Fort Bragg in the Mendocino area, where they stayed until the following evening of March 25th.

46:00 After not hearing from Sarah, who was a reliable worker, but she did not report to her job at Coles on March 26th, Cheryl asks that a welfare check be conducted at the heart family home that afternoon at about 115. Well, that's a good friend. Yeah. That same day, Washington DHS makes another attempt to reach out to the family, again without success. Roughly two hours later, on March 26th is when we circle back to the German tourist, Kristen. As she's driving along Highway 1, she sees a vehicle that has landed upside down, presumably after going over the Shoreline cliff.

46:48 Law enforcement arrives at the scene to find there are five occupants in the vehicle. Unfortunately, it's three children that are deceased as are the two adult women inside. The following day, Washington DHS made another attempt to contact the heart family, which was, of course, unsuccessful, as had been the case in their efforts to do so on two prior occasions. It wasn't until the following day that the Mendocino County Sheriff's Office was able to identify the victims of the crash as Jennifer and Sarah Hart, along with the three children also found in the vehicle, Marcus, Jeremiah and Abigail.

47:42 At that time, the whereabouts of three of the six heart children were still unknown. But, of course, I'm at this point. The people, many of the people close to the case and the investigation feared the worst. The search for the three remaining heart children continued as did law enforcement's investigation into the crash. By April 2nd, 2018, law enforcement officials made their suspicions that the crash may have been intentional public. They had previously revealed that the speedometer indicated the vehicle had been traveling at a speed of 90 miles an hour or roughly 145 kilometers per hour.

48:37 Our friends abroad. It was official. Their belief was that sadly, the three remaining heart children were unlikely to be found alive. That same day, Sheriff Tom Allman makes the following statement. I'm to the point where I'm no longer calling this an accident. I'm calling it a crime. Five days later on April 7th, an unidentified deceased young black female is found in the water near the crash site. On the 13th of that same month, the California Highway Patrol releases the information that Jennifer Hart's blood alcohol level was .102.

49:23 Jeez. That's high, right? It is. Yeah. Tux ecology reports revealed even more troubling information. Sarah Hart had a significant amount of the ingredient primarily in Benadryl in her system, as did two of the three children found in the vehicle. So they were basically drugged with Benadryl? The young girl whose body had been discovered 10 days prior was identified as 12-year-old Sierra. At some point, as the details began to slowly trickle out about the family and the investigation into the crash, a journalist and photographer from Portland realized that they had interviewed this family at a Bernie rally back in 2016.

50:18 That would be like so chilling. Yeah. I can't even imagine. Finally, May 9th, 2018, Hannah's remains were discovered. And it is at this point that it was generally accepted that Devon Des Body was presumably lost to the sea. The sheriff had made a point not to classify the car crash as an accident. Obviously. He ends up calling for a coroner's inquest. And he's both a sheriff and the coroner, apparently. Oh, Barrow? Yeah. So he's calling on himself? A little bit.

50:59 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's kind of an interesting turn of events, I guess. The evidence is presented to a jury a year and a week to the day following the crash. The jury determined that the children were murdered at the hands of their adoptive parents. At the time of the crash, Marcus was 19, Jeremiah was 14, as was Abigail. Devonte was 15, Hannah was 16, and Sierra was 12.

51:40 Though there may be nothing truly definitive to prove why Jennifer and presumably Sarah decided to end their own lives and that of their adopted children, it seems fairly clear that they were likely motivated by the fear that they would be caught for what was certainly years of horrific abuse. Yeah. And starvation, which is, I mean, that's abuse as well, but physical abuse and starvation. So I think I'll leave us with a quote from a 2013 Minnesota Child Protective Services report to sum this up.

52:25 The problem is these women look normal. This feels like something that someone somewhere along the line knew that like this was a bad situation, you know, kind of probably a powder keg situation, but just waiting for something to set it off and years went by before, before this and the whole time what they must have been enduring because the horrific things that I mean, maybe not outwardly as physically abusive so much as emotionally and psychologically torturing them.

53:27 And these are things that they did in front of people, you know, like when they're punishing them for taking leftover pizza out of the fridge, they're doing this in front of friends and they're trusting that apparently no one's going to call them on that. They're not going to get called out for abuse and starvation. Yeah. Think about what had to have been happening that no one was seeing. Yeah. I don't want to think about it. The one thing I will say as sad as it is that Devon Des Body was ultimately not recovered is that we talked about the potential issues around consent with the photos that they had taken of him and the free hugs sign things like that.

54:23 And part of me got to the end of this realizing that he's the only one that was never, his remains were never located and I thought good. They can never do things to his body and take pictures of them to exploit ever again. The thought of his body being recovered and somehow photos of his remains making it into publication, you know, or I mean, just everything that happened to all of these kids, but especially he was so so public facing as far as part of the image for this family on social media and let's see.

55:17 Now, he can just hopefully be at peace. I don't know. That's the way that I'm choosing to look at that particular piece of the story. So you said Marcus was 19. That's so interesting because he was an adult. So he could have left, but I imagine that he wouldn't want to leave his siblings. Yeah. That's so heartbreaking. Yeah. I think they're aside from just wanting to remain to protect his siblings. I'm sure also where where was he going to go? Right. I'm sure he didn't move across the country and separated from any sort of resources.

56:02 Yeah. He lived in a somewhat rural part of Washington and how is he supposed to be able to access resources? Yeah. Are you leaving those kids? Oh my God. Probably not. I think most of us would be like not in a million years. Yeah. Even if you could, which doesn't seem likely that they would raise them to be independent at all. No. Absolutely not. I do have some other pieces. I feel like I'm still kind of having an internal debate about whether it's something that I want to just do like a short Patreon discussion for or if this is kind of something we should talk about during tarot.

56:47 So I guess we can talk about it and figure out where to place it. This whole, I mean, the whole case is so awful, but there are just some kind of stark details. I don't know how else to put that without actually coming out and just going through the whole. I don't know. It's about a third of a page that I have that's just kind of like where to fit. And it's, I feel like interesting to to discuss and sort of consider. I don't know. Yeah. We'll see if the tarot brings it up maybe. Yeah. Yeah. That happens. Should we do some tarot?

57:27 Yeah. Let's do some tarot. I'm really sad. Yeah. I, um, I sobbed at a certain point researching this because it just is, it's everything that's horrific in, in our world. And it just, it's so brutal. It's just, I don't know. It was like everything all at once. Yeah. It was a lot. Yeah. It's a lot. It just blows my mind. I mean, I know that there's bad people in every, in every, like part of society, but it's just like, obviously, you're white women, but you're, you're women and you're a lesbian couple.

58:12 Yeah. So like, how do you not have any compassion? Yeah. Like I just, I don't understand it. Yeah. I, there's a lot of things about this that I feel like none of us want to ever come close to something resembling understanding. No. I mean, that probably goes without saying, but I'm going to say it. So we don't get it. We don't get it. All right. Okay. Let's do some tarot. Tarot. Beautiful. Welcome to the tarot. Hey, Tee. You kind of is. Wait, I could do it. Wait.

58:52 Oh, look at you getting fine. Let's see. Okay. I'm going to fan these out. I'm sending in my intense energy. Yeah. It's very intense from the looks of it. Where are we pecking? Wherever you feel. I feel like this one. I don't know. Oh. Oh, what'd we get? This is the two of swords. Oh, okay. I'm a piacetouille. Two of swords. I feel like we get a lot. It's like the blind-folded woman with that, well, this card's a PWDEC.

59:34 So it's a mole. But it's supposed to be like a blindfolded woman with two swords crossed. Okay. This is interesting though, because it kind of looks, well, I know it's a mole. So he's coming out of the ground. But like when I first saw it, I was like, oh, he's like on a cliff or a mountain. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah. I didn't think about that. Oh, I just had another thought. Let me get it out before we start doing it. Because you know, I always wait and then I'm like, wait, what was that? Who's that now? So like a mole is like hidden underground. Like a lot of you think of just like hiding away and like being out of sight of like people. Is that lucky?

1:00:14 Yeah. That's like the vibe. Yeah. That's, that is a vibe. Okay. Keywords are combined resources, courage, faith, friendship, conflict and balance. In some tarot decks, this card depicts a blindfolded woman holding two swords crossed over her chest. Two's generally signify balance or conflict as well as pairing. It's a lot of conflict. Yeah. The pairing. Yeah. That's kind of exactly what my, where my head went to as well. I think of the two of sorts as the blind faith card because it can represent courage and making decisions based on your own truth and in some cases spiritual guidance.

1:01:06 The upright two can symbolize balancing the right and left hemispheres of your brain, combining intuition with intellect. Knowing this card may mean you must make a decision and need to call on both. I feel like they made a decision and didn't call on either one. I feel like immediately I identify this as being that particular excerpt. I feel like I identify that as being sort of the struggle for Marcus because like you mentioned he's an adult and you know in theory he could leave, right? I don't know. That just sort of spoke to me I guess in that way.

1:01:48 This too can also advise you to take off your blindfold and look at a situation honestly. I was literally just thinking of all of the people who were like looking at this stuff and like kind of they were seeing it but they weren't actually seeing it. Well they weren't seeing the forest for the trees. I think that's kind of the turn of phrase, right? In a reading about money the upright two recommends trusting your own wisdom and inner guidance in a financial matter. Pay attention to your intuition as well as logic. If the reading is about your job you may be confused or conflicted about a work related issue.

1:02:29 I feel like maybe that sort of speaks to the friend. Or the like the police or the people who are supposed to be checking up on the kids or have faith in your own judgment and ideas. Make the call for the welfare check I guess. Sometimes the upright two represents a job that requires both intellect and imagination. Interesting. Okay. This next part I just sort of skimmed and I feel like a lot of the reporting and different things like other creators or journalists like any number of people that I've seen sort of discuss this case.

1:03:14 There's almost sort of a general consensus that Jennifer like we talked about like she's the leader, right? And Sarah went along with things and those were not the right choices to be making but that like she's not the primary perpetrator. Right. Speaking about love, this card suggests listening to both your head and your heart. It can mean you and your partner hold conflicting perspectives or that you're trying to resolve differences and find harmony. Sarah was said to have been the one that at times was she was thought at least to be sort of trying to protect the kids and be like the shield for them.

1:04:01 How true that is I think it's probably really difficult to say in hindsight and there's so much about cases like this where how could we ever know? Right. You can't. No. So it was buried under a molehill. Yes. The two is interesting just I think from the perspective of you know it's the pair of them. Yeah. Like we say the leaders of this family as it were. Should I look at the little book? I haven't done that in a while. Yeah. It was actually that's funny. You say that because I was like, Oh, I was going to suggest just in case the sort of like the P and W book like the interpretation or sort of the little the mini stories that go along with it.

1:04:46 Sometimes that adds sort of some insight. Sometimes we'll see. We'll see. Oh, so this is interesting. It's a coast mole. So he's at the coast. Wow. That's pretty interesting. In decision, difficult choices, confusion, stalemate, acting with incomplete information blindness is the key words for this stalemate and acting with incomplete information. I mean, whoo. Yikes. Okay. Let's read this. Okay. The mole stopped digging as she sensed a change in the soil ahead to one side. The earth was drier and potentially more stable to the other side.

1:05:28 The dampness might mean more abundant selection of worms and slugs. Yum. Food. Oh, God. They had plenty of it, but didn't share it. Maybe the roots in that direction would keep the tunnel stable or maybe she should go deeper where the soil was more densely packed. She wrinkled her nose and rested, paralyzed with indecision. Her mind sniffing down the infinite branching paths that the future tunnel before her could take. Oh, wow. But she couldn't deliberate forever. The mole made a choice and resumed digging, taking the first blind steps in her journey onward.

1:06:13 It just makes me think of like the driver making the choice. Well, I mean, even Sarah. Yeah. Because she's making choices all along as well that are impacting everyone, the entirety of the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Seems like she was probably being abused though, too. Yeah. Seems highly likely. I think that there are some pretty strong indications of that. Especially when you consider too that, you know, based on what we know, it seems like she took the fall for Jennifer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She did it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:06:53 I mean, it's like the more dominant aggressive or, I mean, domineering is a good word. Personality just sort of determines the fate of all of these people. A lot of people. Yeah. Did it bring up any of the stuff that you were thinking you might want to mention? Mm-hmm. Okay. I mean, I think it's a very emotional information that I have and just sort of things I thought were worth maybe reviewing or discussing. I don't know. Blanket. Um, co-workers told police that Sarah Hart once arrived at work with her hometown covered on her name badge when she was working at Coles.

1:07:41 And she explained that her wife, Jennifer, did not want people to know where they lived. Oh. Which I feel like that's fair. But, hmm, Washington is a big state. Woodland is a, I would presume of fairly expansive area. Why not? Why not? Use that on the name. I think that probably is the better question. It's kind of weird. It does seem really weird. Yeah. I don't know. Or maybe put your hometown. Yeah. Somewhere in South Dakota or where you came from, you know, Alexandria, Minnesota. But I think the key here is that it seems like she's trying to thwart anyone ahead of the game, trying to thwart anyone that might be trying to sort of triangulate them for whatever reason.

1:08:35 Oh, I mean, true crime. So I kind of feel like, yeah, probably don't the city where you currently live. But also it seems like just given the circumstances, it seems a little, it's us. Yeah. And it's like you're at work. So obviously you live in the area, right? Right. And I don't know. I don't know exactly what, you know, I don't know what city the Coles was in. I didn't, I was like, I couldn't give a fuck. Yeah. Oh, actually, that's a lie. It is in my notes here. Sometimes I lie. It's always on accident. Video security footage captured the last sighting of Sarah Hart on March 23rd as she drove her sunfire away from her job at the Hazel Dell Coles.

1:09:28 So I guess if you work in Hazel Dell and you don't want people to know that you live in Woodland. I don't know. Seems like does still kind of seem like a stretch. We should do the bleep button. Like I don't go around telling people that I live in which is something you should never do. Don't do that. Don't tell people that. Okay. And I live in. Oh boy, I'm really glad that you censored both of those. I find you. Oh my God. You were just talking about that the other night. I'm like, I'm like, I'm being... Okay. Anyways, we're not even going to go there.

1:10:08 It's too much. So a little bit more. Neighbors told police they never saw the family's SUV. So this is the ugly brown car. Without their red kayak, a fixed to the top until the family drove away together March 24th. Oh. Interesting. Yeah. And I was like, I don't know what the logic is behind that exactly, but it's just any sort of a deviation from like such an ingrained habit. And looking back and hindsight, seeing those things and understanding, I'm not sure exactly what the motivation was, but just seeing how they did something different and what did that mean?

1:10:57 That is, it's weird for one to have a kayak on your car all the time. All the time. Also, it's red. So like it's another one of those things like, hey, look at me. What am I doing? But to like take it off when you... Yeah. You've practically like, say what you're going to do. You're going to escape the car and use the kayak. They were drugged. So I don't know. I was like, I can't let this fester in my mind. I just have like a really icky thought of like they cared more about like the kayak than the children. Right.

1:11:37 But they're obviously not going to survive presumably as well. No. Like they know that they're intoxicated and they're not going to be capable of escaping the vehicle. So you're never going to see the kayak again either. But someone else could use the kayak can live on is like the awful thought I was having was like, I see how you got there. I kind of had that thought as well and wow. Yeah. I just like put myself in like her brain of like, oh, let's take this off so we don't break it and like totally destroy it. Even though we're about to like murder all these people. Kill people. Wow. I thought, well, is that a bizarre take on that situation? And maybe that makes the most sense.

1:12:18 I don't know. None of it makes sense. None of it makes any sense. And it never will. Yeah. Maybe this part makes sense. The house where they lived in Woodland located at 2501 Northwest 389th Street was a gray split level pictures of the home were attached to the affidavit for search warrant following the crash. And this was just striking to me and it was odd because I had seen quite a few pictures of the home interior and exterior at this point.

1:12:59 So it wasn't just seeing the house itself. I think maybe it's silly that it didn't occur to me as I went to review the court documents that those images would be attached. Like maybe that's silly of me to not have seen that natural progression. Like yeah, they would attach photos of the home to the search warrant. Right. Maybe that's, maybe that was dumb. Like by just, you know, I taught it out for a minute. But I think or maybe, maybe it was just chilling to see them after having already learned so much about the outcome of the case.

1:13:48 Like seeing them and knowing that obviously something horrific happens and not necessarily having researched all of the details myself and really formulated the full picture independent to, you know, what I'd heard and what I'd read really kind of forming the full narrative. I think where I landed was maybe it was just that for a family so present in pictures and videos online, particularly on social media and even at like political and activist rallies and things like that, it felt sort of weird for it now to be like the focus is on the photos of of this like ghost of a house.

1:14:39 It's like a haunted house in a way. Yeah. It's like what I was picturing while you were talking about it. Yeah. It just, I don't know, it sort of takes on a different dimension in my mind. I don't know. It's like maybe I'm letting myself get carried away, but I just feel like it's, it's very haunting. It's haunting to see the photos in connection with now like, okay, well, we gotta go and search the house and figure out what, what else is there? What did they find in the house? Like, did they find? Polette, not a stuff, not good stuff. Nothing like that. Nothing like that. I want to be clear that there, as far as I'm aware, there were no indications of, you know, CSA or anything like that.

1:15:28 That would be truly, truly horrifying. I mean, all of this is, there's a picture of them. I just opened it as I'm trying to look at some of the photos from their Woodland house. There's a photo of them and they're in the t-shirts. There's a photo of them of Jennifer and Sarah with some of the kids out in front of the Goonies house. Oh, okay. You sent me a picture of fruit on the counter. Like a lot of food on the counter and a lot of wine. Yep. That's from inside the family home where they can bake apples. No, I think those were real apples.

1:16:08 Just really not for the kids. Two people cannot eat all of those apples. Like that is enough apples. They're going to go bad for the six kids. They have like such a big yard too. They did. There was a lot of spots for the neighbors to hide food for the kids. So you'll see what I mean. Clearly they didn't spare any expense furnishing and/or stalking the fridge. The rest of the house. They had a doggy too. I guess so. Where's the doggy? No idea. I don't know if that dog was still around when that's unclear to me.

1:16:50 Very nice furniture. Here's another one. I'll just let you open it before I say anything. The kayak is that Jennifer? That is Jennifer. Matching her red kayak. I'm sorry. Are you sending more? No, I'm saying sorry for this photo. I am sending another one. No. That one makes me so sad. Keep Portland weird. They're on Burnside. They all look so fucking cute too. Why can't you just be this? Why?

1:17:30 Just love these kids that you actively, arguably went to a lot of effort to bring into your lives. They look like such cool kids too. They're all sweet. They look like they all have such just cool, unique personalities. They look like they be really fun and funny. And they seemed like they wanted to do what their parents asked of them. Yeah. And even if they didn't, it's clear. I think in hindsight that it's like, well, you're not going to not do what. Yeah, that is true.

1:18:12 Yeah, when you see them in some of these photos, it's pretty chilling. It should have been so different. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That one was really, really chilly just because for us, Portland, obviously, that connection is way, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, miss any one more. Oh. Oh, so kind of chilling with the cliff in the background to be honest, but it's a beautiful photo. And I feel like, God, this is the version of them that I feel like I want to remember. You know, yeah, God, there's just like so many lives lost in like one fucking moment.

1:18:56 Oh, senseless. Just the most horrific and selfish thing that I can really imagine. You guys, this one's funny enough a little bit. I'm not going to lie. I'm like, I want people to adopt kids. Like, I want all the kids to be taken care of, but not if like you're a fucking terrible, gross, disgusting person. Yeah. Certainly not if you're all of those things. Yeah. If you're just weird, that's fine. Yeah. Be weird like in a cool way. Be weird. Be queer. Just don't be a fucking murderer. Yeah. I don't think there's anything more to say about this. I feel like we are really struggling to feel like we want to leave it in a different place than where we are.

1:19:42 And we can't know. Should we do the thing that we do? Yeah. It's an adventure that we're going to go on after this. I'm hoping that it cheers us up. I mean, it has more to do with the type of thing that Cassie enjoys. So we're not. But it'll be better for me. Yeah. She's going to be great after this, you guys. I mean, while we'll be traumatized and then more traumatized. That isn't true. You're going to have so much fun. I hope so. There's booze involved. Ooh. Okay. I'm listening. I'm just a hot. Spoiler alert. Okay. Let's do the things.

1:20:23 Have a creepy ass day. We'll see you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday. Sure. Fucking asshole. Yeah. Who does pointless, senseless things to innocent children. Ooh. Fuck off and don't come back next Tuesday. Or any other day, really, for that matter. But especially Tuesday. That's our day. It. Aw. That was fucking sad, Caitlyn. I know. You goddamned bitch. I know. That's amazing. I love it. That's amazing.