The Cliff House Curse: Ghosts, Shipwrecks, & Fiery History in San Francisco

0:01 Another cliffhouse burnt down. I know, how do you align a castle to the ground. Things weren't fireproof, yeah, I know, a lot of things burned back then. Yeah. Well, and everything was flamable. Everything was like on the verge of explosion constantly. It seems like kind of ironic though, because it is like right by the water. Yeah, so you don't picture that being its demise? Yeah. Hi, Caitlin, Hi, Cassie. Hi, creepy people. Hello, Hey, are you new to our creepy corner of the world?

0:49 Me? I was talking to the general public. Okay, well, if you are, this is PNW Hanson Homicides. We very chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky and creepy in the Pacific Northwest. I was going to say, where we're soups preatheh. I almost added the and history at the end of that. I knew that was going to happen. One of us was going to like do something weird there. Yeah, speaking of weird, are you weird? Yeah? No, I was trying to segue into my thing that you insist on. I you know that I say every time, Okay, I'll be quietly.

1:31 I couldn't I couldn't get there. I couldn't. I couldn't make it happen. CA I'll let you get there. It was fetch and it wasn't there. It's pan w If you're nasty, well. You know what else is kind of nasty? We do a terror reading, I think all of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. And it's not really nasty, but could be, could be. I mean I feel like, kind of just like the word weird, we're nasty. It was like kind of a good thing, you know, Yeah, it can be, So let's be nasty. Okay, Hey, do you guys remember something else nasty that we just talked about.

2:12 It was a little a little man named Jake. Jake Jake the alligator man. You remember him. He was nasty. So do you remember in that episode where I kind of like hinted about the cliff House in San Francisco, which is where Jake is supposedly from. Yeah, and I said, I might like talk about it in the future. Well, today it's the future. We have arrived to the future. We are in the future, back to the future. So that's what we're talking about today. We're going to San Francisco. We're going to the cliff house. And actually there have been several different cliff houses in the same location. Oh, and this is the start of where I was like looking this up and I was like, oh, there's a lot of tea here. We got to save this for its own episode.

3:06 I like that. And there's actually some debate on how many cliffhouses there were. Oh, they say like three to six. I think the general consensus is three, but we'll talk about it. But I do want to read you a. Qouch from outside lands dot org and it says, quote, it all comes down to how one defines structure and at what point does it change so completely that it becomes a totally different building. I feel like what that reminds me of is it depends on what the definition.

3:46 Of is is? Yeah, what is the definition of is? I mean just semantical nonsense. Really, I feel I don't know what is is ing? Is ing? Is? Is I is? My brain hurts. Yeah, Well, let's get back to the episode. Oh okay, yeah, right, so we're gonna get started. We're going to talk about all the different buildings that have been in this location. Some people argue that a roadhouse from eighteen fifty eight in a different location with a different name is the very first cliff house. And yeah, it's not in the same location, completely different name, But I think some people think that it counts because it was called a seal Rock House and the cliff House overlooks seal Rocks, which is about a quarter mile away from where the seal Rock House was.

4:45 Okay, I just feel like at a certain point, are like, where's your tinfoil hat? Yeah, a little bit. I don't know. I don't I really don't know. I don't think this place is like even on a cliff. I'm really not sure. Okay, So I think the census is that it doesn't count. But one of the. Actual cliffhouses did have a large kneon sign that declared since eighteen fifty eight, So that's confusing. Right, Okay, Okay. But it was not in that location. So hmm, there's a great debate. Yeah, I would argue there's maybe there is debate. I don't know how great it is.

5:28 A great debate of what is it? Wait? Wait, the great debate of eighteen fifty eight. So the real original Cliffhouse was built in eighteen sixty three in a new development in San Francisco called Land's End, which like sounds super magical. Yeah, it was built as a resort for the wealthy, of course, and yes it's on an actual cliff. Okay. Yeah. It wasn't very big or easy to get to, so it was considered very exclusive. Therefore, it was very popular, especially with the elite families of the era, like of course, like the Hearsts, the Stanford's, and the Crockers. Wow, which all sound familiar. Yeah, but I did not look them up, so I don't exactly know why they sound familiar.

6:24 Well, we're talking about the Hearst California familiar to me. Yeah, Stansford's like the restaurant, Crocker, or like the college. Oh right, I'm like, like the restaurant Stanford. I don't even know if Stanford's the restaurant is in California. I don't know when I originally was looking like I thought about the college. I don't know why. I just said that I'm hungry. I know me too, And then Crocker I was like, yeah, Betty Crocker obviously, so yeah, but I didn't go into like the history of the families. But I have a picture for you, Okay, so this is the first cliff Hounds and it is right on a cliff.

7:05 Oh that's really beautiful. Well you just wait, this isn't even this isn't even the half of it. So five years later they expanded to four times its original size, leaving just a small portion of the building of the original building exposed. So this is kind of where some of that debate comes in, as like how much of the original is actually left? Does it count as the origin? Yeah, but yeah, I think it's Greek mythology. There's like the ship that has been rebuilt time and I won't be able to remember the name of it for the life of me, right, but it like was repaired, repaired, repaired, and eventually it's like all.

7:47 Of the original parts are gone exactly. It's kind of just a replica at that point. M hm. So I will send you another picture of the expanded version. You know, I love a ual. I know there's a lot there. There's eighteen photos in this so yeah, there you can see like a better view of it right on the cliff. Okay, Yeah, so that it's hard to tell just because of how the house is positioned in each of these photos. It's very different perspective, so it's hard to tell, but the second one does look quite a bit larger. Yeah, and the yeah, this one, I I didn't like search a ton for like original photos, but obviously back then there's not going to be like a ton of photos.

8:31 But as we get going, there's more and more photos, different views of of the different houses that were there. But I love that one where you can see like the seal rocks. Yeah, that is beautiful. I said it already, but you just fucking wait, dude, you just wait. I'm so excited. Okay. In the eighteen seventies, the Cliff House started offering gambling and alcohol scandal, I know, and it became so shabby and unrespectable. That's not what I said. That was a direct quote from the article. Well, of course you. Would never make you would never levy such an accusation.

9:13 I don't think gambling and alcohol or shabby and unrespectable. But apparently it drew in just a different crowd riff raff. Yeah, it was not like the family, the elite family crowd anymore. Yeah, I think gambling, yeah, maybe more so than And maybe that's just my that's like kind of my own perception. But I feel like, to me, gambling has more of a negative connotation than than you know, alcohol. Yeah, right, And obviously, you know, in eighteen eighty one, the Cliff House would get a new owner, and I didn't really talk about the original owners, but we're gonna go ahead and talk about the second owner because it's very interesting. His name was a Off Sutro. He was a Jewish German born inventor, came to America and became a millionaire from mining silver in Nevada.

10:10 Whoa really interesting background, like a very like a lot of different things going on. Yeah, and then he came to San Francisco to become an entrepreneur, real estate developer, and eventually the mayor. Oh wow, so like this guy's like, I mean, kind of a big. Deal, kind of you know, he wanted to re establish the Cliff House as a family friendly place, so he remodeled, he got new staff, and he started building a railroad to make it easier to. Get to Oh well, you know, as one does. If you want people to come, you got to make it make it easy for them, right.

10:51 That's why we're going to plan to build a railroad right outside the pod lab because you know, from my house to yours, right, if you build it, they will come. Yeah. Yeah, I would love to just like get on a train and come to your house. Will that be incredible? I have to drive through all the stupid traffic. Oh I can just well, I was like, I already I could just drink my Starbucks on the way there, but I already do that anyway. Yeah, yeah, they can't slow you down that much. But maybe they would have a bar. Maybe I could just get a get pregame and on my way here pre funk at like eleven am in eighteen eighty three, there was a mini castle like addition to the structure that he made. And there's maybe some foreshadowing with that.

11:43 Wait, foreshadowing foreshadowing, doesn't that mean like yeah, it's like what's to come? I know, but like foreshadowing what like you don't know yet castle stuff? Like what about castle kind of castle stuff? Like Okay, you have to wait, I'll tell you eventual, we'll get there. That's the point of foreshadowing. You're not supposed to know until you get there, and you'll be like, oh, I made a face that I looked at and said, that is a face that you would say, like I hope it sticks that way, you know what I mean? You made a face. Yeah, I have to go back and look at it. Yeah, I was like to you, and I was like, oh my god, that's a face where moms say like, careful, you don't want your face to stick that way.

12:31 That can be like the screenshop we use for the thumbnail. The cliff House would encounter some bad luck in eighteen eighty seven, a ninety eight foot schooner heading to Astoria, Oregon, loaded with kerosene, a cask of dynamite caps and about forty two tons. Of black powder. Oh my fuck, that's the correct reaction. Oh shit, this ends so poorly. There's no way this ends. Well. Well, I'll tell you about it. So it hit the rocks right next to the Cliffhouse.

13:12 The crew did abandoned ship, so they all got affoard. It was completely an abandoned ship, okay, and a crowd who was naturally gawking at the wreckage. They had left because I don't know if everyone heard like what was in the boat or not, but everyone was watching. And then they all left except for two men who were still watching from the cliff's edge, continuously being battered against the rocks. The ship fucking exploded like it exploded. Hey what Okay, I just have to act okay, and you sorry. You can say that again if I cut you off in a weird spot. Okay. So did the ship crash down in like the rocky little island things that you see down in the water, like below the house.

14:03 I think so, because it was like right below the cliff. Okay, So it didn't like crash into the cliff. I was like just from like a. Yeah, I think it crashed into the rocks. Okay, okay, yeah, So the ship exploded, shooting a wall of flames and debris up the cliff. So it was close to the cliff. It catapulted those two men backward two hundred feet and it was said that you could hear this blast in San Jose, which is almost forty two miles away as the crow flies. Oh my god. Both men survived, not the fuck they did not they stop it had some serious injuries, but both of them thankfully survived. The cliff house was hit the worst, destroying the north wing, blowing out windows, blowing doors off, hinges, and collapsing balconies.

14:59 Oh no, and. Some nearby houses were also nearly torn apart. This is crazy, that is insane. But Sutro had everything repaired and returned to business as usual. Well, I mean sure eventually yeah, yeah, okay, until Christmas Day of eighteen ninety four, when a fire completely destroyed the original Cliffhouse. Okay, you guys, I'm starting to get like, I don't know, a little little bit of a bad vibe from this place. I don't know. It doesn't give me like a bad vibe, but something, I mean, there's all it keeps going. Okay, it keeps going. I'm just saying, it seems like something doesn't want it there, right. I know, the rocks are like bitch, flowing shit up and then it catches fire and burns down seriously.

15:58 But Sutro, he would not be stopped. He soon had plans for a new Cliff House. I mean, he's a millionaire, Okay, he's like, come on, yeah. Two years later he would open a Victorian Gingerbread style eight story tall castle like hotel, dick Cliffe House, complete with turrets, spires in an observation tower. And this new bill would only cost him seventy five thousand dollars, which back then was two million eight hundred and thirty six thousand, three hundred and forty eight dollars and twenty one cents. I love how everything just like costs basically a nickel, yeah right, I know.

16:41 And also just for contacts. One million dollars back then is like thirty nine million now, so he was like a thirty nine millionaire. Yeah you know. Yeah, so like he was doing pretty okay ish, pretty pretty good. Yeah, okay, okay, So I'm going to send you two photos of this. New Victorian gingerbread on a cliff. You're so mean, because I feel like this is going to make this is going to hurt me. It's so fucking cool, Like I can't, I cannot get over how cool this thing looks. Oh my god, it has like a very Bavarian vibe to it as well. I feel Jesus Christ, isn't this so cool? Literally looks like one of those European castles that's just like nestled into like this side of a cliff.

17:34 Oh my god, I know. I'm even opening the pictures to look at it again, even though I've looked at them like a million times. I love the one of all the people on the beach because you can kind of see just like how it's kind of like it looks kind of precariously positioned on the cliff. Well of that, yeah, I feel like that's foreshadowing, not not what you think. Okay, yeah, oh my god, all of the people with the horse drawn carriages in that second one, again very Bavarian vibe. Yeah, okay, this is like to look at this, like the texture and everything, like it looks very much like a photo. But then the castle itself looks like it's hand sketched into a flat does kind of.

18:26 But that second one, yeah, it doesn't even look real. It's so fucking cool. It had multiple dining areas, dancing and entertainment parlors, bars and art gallery, a gem exhibit, a photo gallery, panoramic views from large windows and open air varandas gorge. And in the midst in the mid mist mist, I mean the San Francisco. There's the miss coastal coastal castle. Yes, sorry anyways, yes, coastal castle. I want one, maybe not on a cliff. Yeah, that's kind of scary.

19:07 In the midst of all of this, Sutro was also building Sutro baths north of the cliff house. He also had a neighborhood, Sutro Heights. Oh yeah, okay. I know I didn't really add that. I just kind of threw that in. But back back to the Sutro Baths, a three acre public bathhouse with six saltwater swimming tanks of varying sizes, shapes, and water temperatures. It had slides, trapees, and diving boards and accommodated ten thousand people. Holy fucking shit, it was huge. I thought this was supposed to be safe exclusive. Well not anymore, not the bathhouse. Yeah, not anymore.

19:48 Okay, Ever, since Sutro took it up, he really wanted like an environment where a ton of people could come, and he made the bath houses like for kind of the locals too, so they can have somewhere to swim and have fun. And yeah, yeah, I mean, you can only take so much of the wealthiest money. You know. If you open it up for larger consumption, broader consumption, just you know, then maybe you could be like, you know, double your money and instead of one million dollars equal to thirty nine million dollars, it could be like a double millionaire and you could have seventy eight billion thirty nine plus thirty nine. Dude, It's it's just insane to think about, like the numbers, you know, when you do the conversions.

20:40 I find that so intriguing. I do, Yeah, I do. Yeah, That's why I always look it up, because it's especially when you're going back this par like the eighteen hundreds, like. Yeah, there's just no like context for unless you do the conversion. It's just okay, change I mind here. I had one photo of the bathhouses, but I found a website earlier that showed like a shit ton of photos and this one just like doesn't do it justice. So I have to send you this website. Okay. We have buildings in a couple of downtown industrial areas in Portland and in Oregon City that look very similar to this photo. It does look very industrial, like it's housing grain or something. Yeah yeah, or greenhouses. Ooh yeah, it does kind of look like a greenhouse a little bit.

21:35 I think once you see kind of the inside, it does have like greenhouse vibes. I think that was on purpose. Oh yeah, oh my gosh, oh yeah, oh my god. The slide there I like piled up like five people deep. Yeah, so funny. I just can't get enough of looking at it. It's so cool. They have like a boat in the middle of one of the photos. It looks like they're like rowing a canoe or something in the water. I don't think i've seen that one yet, but yeah, it does look like they must have had some kind of little like I don't know, just sort of like casual it's like outside of the water, sort of like mingling spaces that. Like, they have so much greenery, it's really beautiful. There was like this stadium style seating up in parts of it. Like it's it's so huge. I think it's hard to capture all of it. Three acres, ten thousand people. Yeah, no, I mean when you said three acres, I was like, ugh, it's giving Grand Lodge or like Great Wolf Lodge or well, I don't know you I just because the swimming pool. Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay, So don't look at any more of the photos, but I want to close. So just two years after Sutro built this gorgeous Victorian ginger red Castle Palace oasis, he passed away no in eighteen ninety eight and his properties

23:09 went to his daughter, Emma. Do we like her? I think so? I think I like Emma. I'm not one hundred percent. I mean, I don't know. I don't know Emma's life, but yeah, that's fair. This cliff house would survive an earthquake in nineteen oh six, which is pretty impressive because I don't think there was a lot of earthquake proof things back then. No, can't imagine there would be. But the next year it would not survive a fire. Yeah, another cliff house burnt down. Ah. Yeah, this gorgeous building was only there eleven years. I know, a castle to the ground. Things weren't things weren't fireproof. Yeah, No, a lot of things burnt back then.

24:01 Yeah. Well, and everything was. I mean everything was flammable. Everything was like on the verge of explosion constantly. It seems like kind of ironic though, because it is like right by the water. Yeah, so you don't picture that being its demise. Yeah, yeah, but it happened again. No, it will live on in infamy though. On the cover of Blue Oyster Cults nineteen eighty eight rock album Imagine Ose. Stop it what I have a photo for you. It's a really cool album cover, Like I kind of want it on my wall. Wow, I'm not cool. It's so it looks so spooky like they I don't know if they.

24:49 I assume they added like the clouds and lightning, but I don't know. Maybe it was just like a stormy day. That doesn't look like lightning to me. That's Oh, it's just like like a it's like a puffy clouds. Yeah, it's like shadows stuff, which is eerie in a different way, but like so cool. But Emma decided to rebuild the Cliffhouse once again. Oh okay, so you know, a. New concrete neo classical style building opened in nineteen oh nine, so they only freaking fly through building these buildings like it does not take long. Which I feel like may speak to why they keep having to rebuild.

25:31 Right, right, But at least this one's in concrete this time, so hopefully it's a little more flammable proof flame flame proof. Flame, yeah, flameproof, or yeah, combustion proof something. Listen. But in case you didn't know what neo classical style was, because I really didn't, it's columns, simple geometric forms, a grand scale, and ornamental details. I have a photo for you. I could be totally wrong, but this almost looks more to me like what I would think of as like being like mission style, and I might be a total tater tot. I don't know.

26:13 Now I need to know what mission style because I don't know. All the articles told me neo classical, so I'm not an architecture major. The mission style has more of almost a Spanish looking flare. Yeah, this like the neo classical looks more like I don't know, anglicized. Yeah. Yeah, but it has like a very similar vibe in a way. It's cool looking in nineteen thirty six, which is so this was built in nineteen oh nine, so you know, kind of like thirty years later. The Whitney brothers, who owned Playland at the beach An Amusement Park from nineteen twenty to nineteen seventy two. Oh wow, they bought the Cliff House in nineteen thirty six. I said that, okay, and turned it from elegant dining and entertainment to an upscale roadhouse. I don't really know what that means, but that's what they said, and they did remodel it several times.

27:15 But I will roadhouse, right. I don't really know what that means either. I don't know. I want to show you a photo of the playhouse or what playland at the beach. That kind of sounds like a coastal sex club. I'm not gonna lie. It was an amusement park, but it was very you know, Potato potato, you know, it was a very nineteen twenties amusement park. Creepy clowns, Oh my god. They're right right in the The big photo they have on their on this article is just like this bighead of a creepy clown and shish kabob sandwiches for ninety nine cents? What the fuck is a shish kabobs sand in which I hope you take the stick out. I don't know, maybe a point. Maybe it's bob.

28:09 Like because we can't. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Everything's ninety nine cents. That seems like a lot for back then. Well, this is clearly not a photo from nineteen thirty six. Yeah, right, have been like in the seventies. Yeah, yeah, that feels a little bit more timely. Yeah yeah, Oh okay, So we have some photos of the cliff House. Gimme, kim me, gimme. It looks like pipe place. This is the nineteen thirty seven one. So it did go through several remodels. They added this giant sign on top that says the cliff House.

28:53 All those freaking old cars are so cool, freaking want it. And then the one from ninety fifty oh five that is like a totally fifties remodel, like the vibe they put like cursive cliff House. Well, I can definitely towel base on the cars too. Yeah. Yeah, but it starts to look a little bit more modern, you know, compared to nineteen thirty six. Yeah, they remodeled a ton. Yeah, And eventually in nineteen seventy seven, the National Park Service took over the property, returning the building to its original neoclassical design. So they remodeled it back to that first one I showed you, wow, and making it a part of the Golden Gate National Recreational Area. That's cool. So I have a current photo for you.

29:47 I want to go to there. And this is a view from like the ocean, so you can see a totally different view of the hotel. It's not as pretty as the Victorian gingerbread house. It's not as pretty as literally any other iteration of it. It looks like a normal building. No, Like, it looks like a fucking office. Like I feel like I'm in a rent space there to take people's passport photos. I know, there's like no verandas there's like a duck on the bottom. But no, it's it's not amazing. No, definitely not like the olden days. So the sutro baths burned to the ground in nineteen sixty six. Why is all this dude shit burning to the ground?

30:35 Like, what did he do? What did he do? These buildings? But the ruins can still be seen and I have I. Was gonna say, like the building itself, but there's like this huge like saltwater reservoir herd. It's ruined, so it's not maintained at all. Well they should. The one of it burning in nineteen sixty six, you can see it next to the bolt house nineteen sixty six. Oh, this is so heartbreaking, I know. And then the second photo is what's left today. Yeah, and you can see the cliff House building from so I mean it really is that close next to it? Yeah?

31:23 Yeah, but it's so sad that beautiful greenhouse oasis is now just a friggin hole in the ground with some a little bit of concrete structures brick. It looks like I can't. Tell I don't know if they were doing like some sort of like cement style oaks, which like the reservoir part of it, that does look like cemant. This does look like it could be some sort of like that looks like masonry. It's hard to tell. It's not like the like the sharpest image. I can't see where I would discern like rebar like in more modern days. What in the actual thought thing? What are you telling I'm just crawling across the floor. Hey, what are you doing?

32:10 You could have just walked, because there's no cameras. I that was so unnecessary. Opened the door slowly and I watched him my crawl. I could see you seeing something, but I was like, I don't know what's happening, Bedbere Like the jig is up, we are you're here? Say high? Yeah. So the current day cliff House closed during COVID and was unable to reopen with the same owners. It was supposed to reopen in twenty twenty four with new ownership, but that has been delayed until at least twenty twenty five, which is this year. I'm not really sure. I didn't see any updates. I didn't look super hard, but.

32:54 Leslie, it's fine because I don't want to stay there. I don't want to way, it's not a castle. Now. This delay was due to unexpected repairs costing over ten million dollars. They wouldn't give an exact boy, they said it was. It was over ten million dollars. Uh huh. So that's gonna, you know, put a a damper on things a little bit, a little bit. But this new place cannot be called the Cliffhouse. Why the previous owners trademarked the name and even removed all of the cliff House signage when they left. There might be negotiations happening to be able to call at the cliff House, but I don't I don't think they wanted to give up their business. I think they were pretty sad about it. COVID was an unfortunate time, got a lot of people, so it's kind of understandable that maybe they don't they don't want.

33:47 To give them the name, you know. Yeah, well, and let's face it, if you have ten million dollars of repairs that need to be done, maybe maybe we don't monkey with naming rights. Call it something the fuck else it is. It's kind of sad though, because it's like historically it's always been the Cliff House there on a cliff, you know. So yeah, I don't know. It's all kind of sad to me. Yeah, we'll see. Apparently it's supposed to open this year, but who knows. You know, what might make us feel a little better if we go back and talk a little bit about Jake the Alligator. Man, because I literally cannot get enough of this dude.

34:30 He is a ladies man. Yeah, I forgot that's how we got here, and. I really wanted to find out, like where exactly he came from. Okay, so it was said that he was. Originally part of the collection at Whitney's Museum in San Francisco, which Whitney is the name of the brothers who bought the Cliff House. Yeah right, okay, Yeah, and there was a museum originally housed in the Sutro Baths then in the basement of the Cliffhouse. Huh. It was not the Whitney's collection. They might have had some of their personal collection in this collection. But I did find that there was a museum called the Music Mechanique, Oh, which is like friend is up front.

35:26 Yeah, I would assume, so I mean it could be like Spanish. Yeah, you know, it's a Latin based language. It looks yeah, it looks like Frenchie to me, probably French. Yeah, this was not the Whitney's collection. It was owned by a different man, although I think maybe the Whitneys had some of their collection, their like personal collection stuff in here. Oh it's not exactly clear. But the music mechanique part was a museum of over three hundred antique coin operated mechanical amusements Okay, arcade games, music boxes, player pianos, fortune tellers, motion pictures, peep shows, animated dioramas, photo booths, and laughing sal who came from the Playland Funhouse amusement park. So they there was some of the Whitney connection, and I think that they were friends.

36:19 I think the guy who owned this was friends with the Whitneys. Okay, he did move this, all the mechanical part of the museum. He moved to Pure forty five in two thousand and two and is still there today, so you can still visit. This, So there's still like a yeah, okay, So I wasn't sure if this was going to go the way of like kind of old timey you know, different amusement machines like that, or if it was going to go like kind of more of a jay Leno vibe and it's just like a car museum. Oh no, mechanic, yeah, kind of does somend like that, but no, it's all those fun kind of like the Zoltar machine that I visited in Portland.

37:00 Recently thousand percent when I was picturing. And I'm sending you a photo because I mentioned someone named laughing Sal. Yeah, I feel as though I feel like you're. Gonna love her, Oh dear god. So on one side you can see the musy mechanic and trends I think that is at the Sutra bath house, and then you can see on the other side that's laughing Sal. Okay, she's not as scary as I thought. You guys kind of have the same hair. I mean yeah. Slowly throughout recording, it is transforming.

37:40 I want to see her inaction. I don't quite know what she does, but she's got her hands. Out like this. I don't know what to do. Her mouth is open. I'm sure she laughs. Looks like she's missing it too. Currently. I don't know if that's her natural state. Baseballed laughing with two f's two by the way, so. Of course, of course. So that's kind of some of the stuff you can encounter at Music Mechanique. And I think she's still there at the current day one at Pure forty five. Okay. So I was kind of wondering if maybe this was where Jake was housed. He's not coin operated. Yeah that I know of. Yeah, what we never saw was his soft under belly, and maybe that's where he's got the little coins. Maybe, I don't know.

38:31 We don't know exactly where he keeps his key all the time either, so there might be slot somewhere or a slot. But when there was a museum at the Sutro baths, they did have some rare and expensive collectibles. And I don't think that these were part of whoever owned the mechanics. Okay, the mechanique. I think this was more of someone else's. I don't I don't know, Like I couldn't figure it out. Really, no, that makes sense, But I think it was maybe the Whitney's collection, okay. And I feel like in a salt water bathhouse, maybe you don't store like your mechanical stuff.

39:14 Yeah, I don't know if the bath houses were closed when they put the museum in there, or if it just because it had like a bunch of room in it, so maybe they had like a special spot for the museum with the pools, I'm not really sure, or if like they like drained all the pools and just had a museum in there. That would seem so odd to me. Yeah, I'm not one hundred percent sure, but we're going to talk about some of the stuff that they did have. Okay, there were natural history exhibits, galleries of sculptures, paintings, and artifacts from Egypt, China, the Middle East, Mexico, and even Egyptian mummies. I did already say Egypt, but that did include with mummy.

40:00 But like artifacts that's different than you know. But it's interesting because you remember Jake supposedly was in the sand dunes of Pakistan, right right. They had stuff from the Middle East. I don't know, I'm just saying, and then also mummies. He was like a mummified you know, some people actually think the cause of all of these fires could have been the Egyptian artifacts because there is some you know, things about people removing things from like Egyptian tombs and becoming cursed. Yeah, so I don't know. I don't think obviously, we know, we don't think Egyptian stuff is inherently like evil or anything.

40:43 Yes, exactly if you're although fuck around and find out. Yeah, I'm like, remove Egyptian like mummies and what happens, I don't know, like remove anyone from their intended resting place and then and then tell me who's evil here. It's funny you say that too. We'll circle back to that in a minute. I'm going to leave my feet where they are, but I appreciate a warning if I need to reposition them. Okay, maybe at the very end, I'll you know. So I'm still kind of speculating, like where Jake came from. Did he come from maybe the amusement park because I'm sure they had some sideshow type things. It reported that, you know, he was involved in, like carnivals and things, so it could have come from that, or possibly he was at the Cliffhouse gift Shop, which opened by the Whitney Brothers in nineteen thirty nine and they claim to be the largest gift shop in the world in the forties and fifties, so that kind of has like the Marsha's Free museum vibes like this huge.

41:51 Gift shop with just like a bunch of shit in it. Yeah, it could have been from that too, get your chatch gates. Yeah, but still I really couldn't really really really really I really really really I really really really. Wait. I really wanted to like nail down where exactly he came from. But I'm pretty sure he came from one of the Whitney's random weird collection. I really feel like maybe he was at the amusement park and the museum, and maybe he was at all of these places. I mean that that also could be true, right, I mean, he could have kind of been moved around. I feel like, you know, if you find sort of some sort of an exhibition piece that seems like it does well.

42:39 Yeah, and he's a looker too, I mean, who wouldn't want to put him all over the place? Right? Boy, howdy, let's go. Okay, we're moving on from Jake. I'm done. I've given up. We're gonna put him in the past until my bonus because I have a full Patreon bonus about some of the about Jake the. Delegator man, because I literally can't stop. I get that. But we're going to be moving on, so as an extension of playland at the beach. That amusement park we just talked about, Oh that plays. Camera Obscura was built on the observation deck of the Cliffhouse, now on the National Register of Historic Places. Camera Obscura is a rare device based on a fifteenth century designed.

43:28 By Leonardo da Vinci. Okay, it produces three hundred and sixty degrees of spectacular live images of the Seal Rock area projected onto a giant parabolic disc in the center of the room. Wow, okay, I'm gonna send you a photo because it's like this cute little building and it kind of is shaped like a camera. Oh that's a storable ball. You know how we feel about a theme. I love a theme. I love a theme. This was the invention that actually led to photography. Ooh, I mean not this like building itself, but like the Leonardo da Vinci's the one it was based on.

44:09 Mister Pence. So I'm going to read you a quote of what this is. I didn't want to describe it in my own words. Well for yeah, that's quote. The device is built using a box or a room with a small hole that lets lighten. The light from an outside image passes through the hole and is projected upside down, but in scale as it strikes the inside surface. Oftentimes mirrors or reflective discs can be used to produce a right side up image like sounds like a camera, like a camera. And I also knew that, and I I'm so glad that you just had that quote because I feel like that's exactly what I would have said.

44:51 Yeah, totally. And you can kind of see. I know the quality of the photo I sent you isn't great, but on the bottom right side is kind of that projected image of the rocks, and there's like a bunch of people standing around looking at it. Yeah, it looks like a cult gathering. It does. Yeah, cults of Seal Rock. Yeah. Wow, Okay, And it's interesting because at one point I think it's the neo classic that I was like, this makes me think of Mission, and then I was like, it also reminds me of the Mcminimums, which of course takes us to Freemasons. And then it's not that far of a jump to everything connects.

45:34 It really does. If you look for it, it's there, and if it's not there, you'll find. Well, speaking of seal rocks, I'm going to tell you a little bit about that. So they weren't directly below the cliff house, and we're once home to hundreds of sea lions. Okay, that's why they're called seal rocks. I mean that makes sense. Tons of people would come and watch them from the balcony of the cliffhouse. Yeah. And there was one. Seal I in there in particular that was quite famous. Oh and his name was Ben Butler. Stop it named after a Civil War general by a famous newspaper publisher.

46:14 Oh my goodness. Okay, So I was gonna send you this picture of seal Rock before I moved on to Ben Butler. So I'm gonna send you that really quick so you could see all the seals in the rock. Because they're fat and fucking cue. They're hilarious. Are they kind of make like I don't know, yeah, it's like throaty or I listen, I'm not going to capture it. Ben Butler was known as the King of Seals at a conservative fourty pounds. I don't know how they knew it. Well, seals weigh that much, I guess. So that's like a lot, right, Yeah, that's what they said the article. So I don't know. I mean, I think when they are actually right off the coast like this, that makes sense.

47:00 I don't think the seals that we have in a lot of Oregon. I don't think a lot of them militia are like actually down at the coast. Yeah they're pretty stall Yeah, I think they're smaller. But the guy was apparently rhobic nikes Sadly, Ben Butler passed away in nineteen or sorry, in eighteen ninety five. How do they know that? Well, I'm telling you. Oh, he was battling another male sea lion. I don't know how the heck the other guy won. I don't know if he was bigger or if maybe Ben just got too old. He's yeah old. Maybe he like could move because he was like Jaba the hut, like yeah, kind of Java, right, just like laon Reped.

47:44 Benny was so beloved they just couldn't let him go. So they stuffed him. No flight him at the sutro baths. Oh, I don't care for that. So they had some tax under me there though. That's like another kind of clue that maybe Jake did come from there. Okay, I'm sending you correct a photo of the article about Benny Boy God and then his stuff. Oh, he doesn't even look that big in this photo. I mean, I don't know to scale, like, I don't, I don't know, but he doesn't look that big in that photo. But it was a huge place, so maybe that's like a really big yeah, so that was him stuff. But the sutro bast okay. We I feel like it just feels so morbid. I mean, I think taxidermy in general has a morbid vibe, but for a creature like that size, for that scale, it just feels I don't know, that somehow feels very icky. Yeah. I feel like there are so many people that are doing like really incredible and interesting and very like artistic work with and in an ethical way, you know. And not to say that this necessarily wasn't because obviously sounds like they witnessed the back, but I don't know, my god, it's just an animal this large. It just feels I don't know.

49:16 I think it's so sweet though, that he was such like a staple people were used to seeing him, and they were like, well, we can't just like leave his body out there, you know. They went and got him and like, well, no, because it would sting up the whole coast for like a month. But they preserved him an up thousand pounds almost of seal. How did they even get I feel like he maybe didn't weigh that much. That seems like a crazy I. Don't love questions. I don't know. Okay, should I look and see how much? Like is he a specific type of seal like San Francisco He's a San Francisco seal? Okay, see lion San Francisco treat he's a sea lion? Is he a sea lion? Yeah? A seal and a sea lion are different because seals are much smaller.

50:05 But I don't know why they called him the king of seals. I think maybe they just type. Of that well and a seal rocked. Yeah, yeah, but I'm sure there's like seals and sea lions. We got taken. We got taken real hard. On average adult male California sea lions in San Francisco way between six hundred and eight hundred and fifty pounds. Yeah, I feel like I could see him being like a thousand pounds, like if he has a real big boy, five thousand pounds is like. Yeah, So I don't know questionable sources. The females weigh between two hundred and two fifty. Damn, they gonna get so smooched. Yeah, they'd be smooshing. Yes, that's maybe that's where smush comes from. Snooky wa smash mush. Oh gosh.

50:57 Well, I have recently become addicted to TikTok, and I'm saying when I was talking about this beloved Benny, all I could think of is the new Justin Bieber. Song, Hey you, Benny that was with Selene. I will still be cheating better than you, better than you. It's it's like a fake Justin Bieber song. Oh okay, because there's this. There's all this drama with Justin and Selena and Benny and Haley, and I know all about it because I'm now. Addicted to TikTok. It's been going on for so much, so long, but someone made this amazing song and I cannot get it out of my head. I'm gonna need you to look at this song. Go to TikTok. All right, typing Benny Justin Bieber banger. It's a banger. I understand TikTok now. It's pretty. Guy's pretty understand TikTok. You guys, I just have to say, like, if you're just in Bieber and you're actually on your own socials, like don't you have like a manager? Don't you have like pr people?

52:09 I feel like you really should, because yeah, there's stuff happening, but I'm loving what's coming out as a result because it's making me understand TikTok and the Internet like I never have before. Okay, and I'm really grateful. I am officially Yeah, you got to go check it out after this. We got to take take a because I'm out of here right. I totally got sidetracked because I'm like talking about Benny and then this song just gets in my head. It's going to be in there forever. You're welcome, But we still have a couple of things to talk about, because you know, we didn't even get to Hauntings yet. We have one more interesting thing. I don't know, like, are we really like is it going to get better than this? I feel like we've kind of like.

52:56 Actually, no, it gets far worse from here on out. But okay, I'm well jazzed about it. So we're going to move on and we're going to talk about the Cliffhouse suspension bridge. For a second. In the eighteen eighties, a rope and wood bridge linked the cliff House to one of the steal rocks. Nope, nope. It was about twenty five to thirty feet above, depending on the tide, the sand or the shallow water. No. In eighteen eighty four, some dumbass boys rocked the bridge so hard that they flipped it upside down, and there were about forty other people on the bridge, several of whom were seriously injured. Nobody died that I know of, But what the fuck? Boys don't be flipping bridges?

53:48 Well, how the fuck would you know back then, because like, what did you take roll call before everybody walked across the bridge? Those guys maybe, I don't know what a bunch of little punks. I know. Oh it's such dumb boys, so stupid. We should throw rocks at them, Yeah, like really big rocks, like seal rock. Like if they were the only ones on the bridges, that would be fine. Like yeah, flip yourselves. Yeah, flip yourselves all the way over forty other people, Like that's a lot of people want suspension bridge that Like, I feel like it might have broken it either way. Yeah. Like also I'm I'm immediately out when you say suspension bridge.

54:30 Yeah no, me too, totally. I know there's probably suspension bridges that I have uh encountered in my real life, and that's fine. I didn't know that's what they were. I have like nightmares about falling off of them. I don't know why, but I do. And it's terrifying. Because all of us here in the Pacific Northwest are trained to think about the big one. Maybe yeah, yeah, yeah maybe, or maybe in a past life I was on the suspension bridge and I got looked over and that's why I feel the need to include it in this episode or shirt. Or maybe I was Benny the what's his last name? Benny, Benny, Benny Blonco, Benny Butler, Oh right, that guy, that guy, that guy ka.

55:18 But they did not rebuild the suspension bridge, feeling that it was safer to watch the view from the cliff instead of. Like, yeah in the view, you know, yeah, they're like because men, yeah, yeah, let's just not do that again. Let's not even give them the opportunity. So that's fair. I feel like, yeah, a wise choice here. You're ready for ghosties okay, whatever, there's some ghosties. Naturally, we have to talk about the hauntings, right, you can't forget to talk about the hauntings. Who would do that? Yeah, it's not like this is just like a history podcast or anything whatever. There is a spirit people say that they see called Earth named Natalie Harrison, who wandered the beaches below the cliff house waiting for her fiance to return from World War One.

56:08 Oh okay, not World War two. I'm sorry, Yeah, I mean, but he sadly never came back to her orner and people say she passed away of a broken heart. Yeah, and they still see her forlornly walking the coastline, forever waiting on her man's But beware if you are a man visiting this area, because she might lure you off the. Cliffs to your death like siren. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if this is true or if people just want to like feel a nice woman. Seems like a true but yeah, I could see it being true. I don't know. Maybe, just like, don't be a man who's just like being a dick. Don't follow a beautiful woman off a cliff, or do.

56:52 Or do if you're that kind of man. Yeah, I feel like we're just at a we're at a point in our society where we need more men to like not follow women or really follow them and follow them straight off off the cliff. Yeah. But yeah, you make a really good point. And see, it's not that scary because it's just men. I was gonna say, I would love to chat about bears. There's no bears in this episode. Just see Sea Lions, the Paranormal Ghost Society, which is like that website A sent you. It was from them. They investigated there and caught an EVP of someone crying, So it could have been Natalie, or it could have been any of the one hundred and twenty eight lives lost in the SS City of Rio de Janeiro shipwreck. Well, for Fox's sake, that's a long name for a ship, sure is.

57:47 But I am just going to say, I realize you've told me her name, But as soon as you talk about a body of water and a Natalie, I'm just like Natalie Nataline, Natalie. It was Natalie Harrison, Yeah, not Natalie Wood. Yeah, which I want you to cover. Many of the lives lost in the shipwreck were Chinese and Japanese immigrants who were asleep in their cabins when the wreck occurred. It was so devastating that it is considered the Titanic of the Golden Gates. I was just gonna say, that's like, I mean, it's it's not on the same scale, but this was like the biggest scaleing it's a shipwreck.

58:34 I know, it's crazy another Titanic reference in these, like because we referenced it in the Jake episode and the Benson and She ever wore Titanic guess just all over the place. It's like we may or may not have seen a movie all about it in like very formative years. It's still my favorite movie ever made. Really, yeah, I feel like it's it's way up there for me. It's like, if nothing else else, it's just like porn for your like eye holes, all of the the actual sex part or oh I don't even care about that. No, No, it's just like, I mean, it's such a beautiful ship, all of the dresses and jewelry, the my god, the way that they styled their hair.

59:22 Leonard like, I guess whatever. I don't think this ship was like fancy necessarily, but it was just like the tragedy of losing all of those people, and it was more biggest shipwreck in the area. Yeah, more of like a just a true like passenger ship, yeah, rather than a sailing caste system. Yeah that's fair. I mean all the Chinese and Japanese immigrants were you know, still down below in the lowest you know, kind of just like the Titanic. Well, I mean I guess that depends, like were there people up on I don't know. I don't heard a lot about SHO. I was gonna say it. That's like one of those things where it's like it's hard to know because you're like I would have to do a lot of digging to find out, like was this a racist and or socio economic situation of oppression or was this just a tragedy because everybody was asleep, you know what I mean.

1:00:19 Like and there were like I think like two hundred people on the ship, and one hundred and twenty eight people died, so like the on board died. Roughly like sixty sixty five percent ish, I agree off the top of my head. Yeah, people also see a ghost ship. Uh do you remember that schooner that exploded? What it was named the parallel. I don't I guess that's schooners. Shut up, cut up, shut up, you scuttle let Yeah, what's the scuttle butt? Uh? Its name was the Parallel, And people say that they see it in the it just kind of vanishes before their eves, so they see the.

1:01:04 Ghost of the Parallel. I mean maybe just sailed away. People are so dramatic, I know, and all kind of shits. I don't know if all ships kind of look the same or if this one was like really to steing. Well I was gonna say, I mean, depending on when they're documenting the sighting. Yeah, ships of certain eras are very that is true, potentially very recognizable because not a lot of people are outsailing boats that look like the Nina into you know. Yeah, Santa Maria, do you in the bottom while you drink is saying griya. Okay.

1:01:45 In the ruins of the Sutro bass, people hear voices and laughter when no one else is around. No, thank you please. They see apparitions of people in old timey bathing suits, which would be pretty cool. Actually, I like, I'm kind of here that cure for the fashion of the Yes, oh my god, absolutely some of whom might be a number of people who drowned on site though, Oh that's a bumma, or even. A sixteen year old boy named Frank who fell headfirst into one of the empty concrete. No no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, and he didn't he didn't survey. Well, that doesn't sound like he drowned. Nope, he did not. Yeah, yeah, he hit his head in the Yeah. But a number of other people did drown on site. I think there was like a man or again, an older man and a woman.

1:02:34 That they talked about. Yeah. There is also a creepy tunnel at the baths. Baths okay, because why wouldn't there be. It was used to pump sea water into the pools, So nothing nefarious, no Shanghai, just gonna say, uh was for water pump in. There has of course been some vandalism in the tunnel, things like inverted pentagram, leading people to believe there's some sort of devil worshiping, satanic panic activity happening. Oh well, I mean, you know, it's like we already made the connection to the Freemasons, and I got to keep going. Yeah. Yeah, just.

1:03:21 Legend has it if you light a candle in the tunnel, a woman will be summoned and she will throw the candle in the ocean. I was like, am I the woman? And did I just like? Am I just hanging out? I don't understand this, Like, why would you want to just summon this woman so she could throw your candle in the ocean. Maybe she's like I don't like light, Like, get the fuck out of here, throw this candle in the ocean. Weird? What if she's worried about it catching fire again and she's like, get this fire out of here. I didn't think of. That until just now, Yeah, that we might be onto something.

1:04:03 What is chucking it towards the ship that exploded? Oh oh, I don't know. I really feel like maybe she's like, get the fire out of here. Like face burned down. That's so disrespectful. Literally everything they put here just like burns to the ground. Have you learned nothing? Yeah? Wow? Okay? Interesting Yeah, and then to the last part where you may have to put up. Your little I felt it coming. This is something that you just loved to hear. It's your favorite thing. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'm just telling you you're gonna love to hear this, that's your favorite thing. You're a liar once again. We have this old story. The area surrounding the Cliffhouse and Sutro Baths used to be the Golden Gate Cemetery.

1:04:59 I scared its board out of her. In the nineteen thirties, they exhumed over eighteen thousand bodies and had them moved, but in a tale as old as fucking time, they did not manage to get everyone. And in nineteen ninety three they discovered hundreds more unmarked grapes. Jesus fucking Christ. And so we're so shocked that everything we build on around Oh, that's why earlier you were like, yeah, move someone from their resting place and like fuck around and find out. And I'm like, oh yeah, I'm just saying it's rude.

1:05:41 Yeah, So that happened, gosh, yeah, And they moved these bodies in the in the nineteen thirties and they didn't find the rest of the unmarked grapes until nineteen ninety three. So sixty wait, sixty years, sixty three years, yes, wowsers. Well, I'm glad that we ended on that happy note. We'll talk about Jake the Alligator. Mantimore oh my god, wild. There's a lot of things that could cause like this kind of cursey. Yeah, they're like, okay, listen, okay, so hear me out. What if we just build all of this shit where there's a bunch of dead people and like we'll get some of them, but like inevitably probably not going to find everyone, so like, but fuck it, let's.

1:06:29 Do this and then also have like ancient artifacts and. We'll bring shit that doesn't belong here and doesn't want to be here, and honestly, it's kind of pissed that we've taken it from the place where it wants to be, yeah, or they want to be, and then we're just going to be like totally surprised when shit keeps burning down. So I don't know, Hopefully it's over with. Hopefully you know, the new place, they're able to open it back up and we'll see what happens. I guess I wish them the best of luck. It is a gorgeous spot. Very previews. Yeah, oh I did forget to say. There was an earthquake and all the sea lions moved, so they that used to be like their permanent home, but now they only come back like certain times easonally, yeah, seasonally.

1:07:17 Okay, So I don't know if this if the. Sea lions are like what when they come around now like nowadays? Uh, that's interesting. Yeah, so you might go and not even see seals at Seal Rock now sea lions, Yeah, sea lions, sea lions. You won't see any of them, seals or sea lions. And I wonder where Ben Butler ended up like his stuffed yeah, his stuffed carcass. I don't know where he ended up either. Hopefully he's in a museum somewhere. Yeah, maybe we'll have to hunt him down right, anyone knows where, Fenny Anny, let me know. See you. This is how I know that you're like really into tech talk because you immediately got on like the trend. And if I was thinking of like Benny in like a musical way, I would have been like, but but Benny and the JITs, that's true. Yeah, that probably would have been the Benny I thought about before TikTok ruined my brain. Yeah. Well you know, brain run is real.

1:08:20 Well, I've experienced it now. So I wasn't even looking I was looking for skincare tips. Okay, I wasn't even looking for a drama and I found it and I'm sucked in. Oh it found you the road to rot thinking about not justin Bieber, thinking about the cliff house. All right, she is spreading the dick. She is going to select our card. Her hair is a beautiful chistnut. Interesting. That kind of looks like the side of a cliff. What is that? Four pentacles in reverse does look like it's on a cliff. It's like a woodpecker on a tree, but totally looks like a cliff. Okay. For the four of Pentacles, our keywords are security, materialism, caution, possessiveness, breed, and creative blocks. Oh interesting, okay. In some tarot decks, the fourth Pentacles features a man with four pentagrams attached to his body. He did talk about the inverted pentagrams in the interesting just something.

1:09:42 Pentagrams always reminds me of like money though, and Sutro was like a millionaire. Yeah, I mean, pentacles is definitely I mean, that's a definite linkage. The image suggests his money and possessions define him. Oh okay, I think so someone who's making Sutro baths and suitral heights and all yeah things built himself a castle. Yeah, force symbolize stability. Therefore, this card signifies financial security or seeking it, which I feel like is there's there's a little bit of a linkage to multiple like eerrows this story with that and the new one too, I mean even yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking when the four of Pentacles appears reversed. It suggests your conservative attitude and limited vision are causes of stagnation. As a result, you encounter obstacles and delays that keep you from moving ahead, like.

1:10:52 Having ten over ten million dollars in repairs. The possibly you need to make changes to stop clinging to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're afraid to take a risk. Oh interesting, huh. I feel like that could relate to maybe that current ownership. Can you read that one more time? You need to make changes to stop clinging, like as if to a cliff, to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're afraid to take a risk. That does kind of remind me of present day, but also like all the remodeling it went through and stuff.

1:11:33 Yeah. In a reading about money, this card recommends against an investment or financial venture at this time, I mean this could be applicable to the past as well, because like. All the money they sunk into however, many buildings and remodels and everything is basically gone. Now, Yeah, that was kind of what I was saying. Sometimes it indicates imprudent spending or back decisions regarding money or property. Wow, Okay, Yeah. If the reading is about your job, the reverse four can mean you feel insecure in your position. Outsourcing, cutbacks, or competition may threaten your job.

1:12:16 You may be passed over for promotion or fail because your skills are outdated or inadequate. That kind of reminds me not that like their skills were outdated and inadequate, but the people who were running it during COVID, and there was a lot of drama about that that I didn't include. They like didn't renew their lease for for reasons. There's a lot there was a lot of drama about that. Interesting. So yeah, I don't know. In a reading about love, you may fear losing control in a relationship because you sense your power dwindling, like waiting by the shore for your maybe your fiance. You feel insecure, perhaps you depend on your partner for financial support and feel trapped in the relationship, which I feel like also speaks to a certain era. Okay, there's an extra exert. You've heard the saying money is the root of all evil, but the actual quote is love of money. Greed is the root of all kinds of evil. In some tarot decks, this card is labeled greed. The ooth Taro, however, calls it power and gives a more positive interpretation, a solid foundation on which you can create something more sound, which is

1:13:48 interesting because when we go back and sort of think about Alice Crowley and sort of the differences between the two decks that are, you know, more commonly used, it makes sense it comes from wealth and from power, and so having sort of a more positive spin that might make more sense. It does make a lot of sense, And I feel like that's maybe how like Sutro would feel too. So is an acorn would peck a hoarding saving possessiveness like museum This seems like museum status hoarding saving possessiveness. It also says material security materialism security, but also insecurity boundaries.

1:14:35 Boundaries is interesting. I don't know why. It just made me think of like a cliff like doesn't really have a boundary. I mean, doesn't it like it does as an edge? Yeah, yeah, yeah it does. You're right. Yeah. The granary tree was beautiful, a thousand and one acorns, all perfectly placed in perfectly sized alcoves. At sunset they shone like drops of gold. At night, the woodpecker dreamed of the pattern of their inlay, recalling clearly the placement of everyone that he awoke feeling uneasy as he surveyed his collection. His suspicions were confirmed in empty space, a missing not in the lattice that wrapped the oak. This would not do. The imperfection stuck in his mind like a splinter of dry bark. What if winter stretched longer than usual and he needed one more acorn to last until the thought? One thousand and one acorns worn enough to truly be secure? Now, he thought, flying off to scrounch another one thousand and two sounds much better. So just like more of that interesting collecting or things.

1:15:49 It's almost like what I think of as being like a depression era mindset of like you know, you're saving rubber bands and shit because we're not going to go buy them, Like I have this one that came on my newspaper. Like it makes me think of like how people like Sutro who are like a millionaire, if they were still like that like hoarding and saving. And yeah, I mean a more maybe coming from the mentality of like millionaires don't become millionaires because they are like wasteful, right, you know what I mean. He's an inventor. So mm hmm. Okay, So this is going to be interesting because we haven't really used our both deck or the book. I don't think we've used the book itself at all, but both Deck not a lot. Okay, So four of discs also power. So there's a couple of different it's sort of uh, divided into kind of sub sections of keywords, and then we have interpretive and some other like iconography and like different links to other like esoteric things. It's yeah, it's it's interesting. So the kind of bullet of the card overall it just says the power of stability. There's a sub section for instinct and

1:17:22 it says security, which is very reminiscent of that little P and W Deck story that you've read fixation and stability. Stability is interesting, like before I lose the thought, just the fact that in then power like reminded me of like the explosion and then stability because it like ruined some of the building and I'm sure, yeah, like it wasn't quite. Stable or I mean, it's a building literally built on a cliff side. But the big Castle one did survive an earthquake, so it had to have been pretty stable. So that's interesting. Yeah, over time, sort of that little like cliff's edge where it is, I'm sure just I mean, it's it's a coastal area. And this is kind of a constant that we are I think aware.

1:18:13 Of, is that there's like erosion over time. I wonder if that's part of like what is costing so much. I wonder if that problems Yeah. To me, that sounds like it would have to be related to some sort of structural issues. But man, I mean that's speculations all at this point. But Okay, So our other sort of sub sections of keywords are goal, light, shadow, and quality. Okay, for goal, we have completion of earthly power through condensation of strength. Condensation is an interesting way we're in this context. I think for light in perturbability, which feels like somebody who just keeps rebuilding. Oh yeah, you know, I remain unperturbed.

1:19:16 And like the goals, Like all of them had goals to rebuild, and they all did so many times. Shadow says compulsivity, stubbornness, and stagnation and quality, the strengthening and all dominating power. I think power just in the context of like this deck and knowing kind of some of the historical overlap of the era between like literally like the creation of both and some of that, you know, the esotericism, and then like the historical background of this story itself. With cliff Side, I'm like, oh, that's interesting. Yeah, And it's like someone who ran for office, ye, the mayor. Yeah.

1:20:07 In the picture, the discs are portrayed as the four corner towers of a fortress bird's eye perspective. Eh. The discs themselves are square and thereby embody the furnace as a symbol of stability and earthly reality. That this is a living system is expressed by the symbols in the four towers, representing the four elements water, fire, air, and earth. Wow, all of that happened in this story tale. Yeah. The motif shows the basic structure of the earthly city, the human living space built an imitation of the divine Jerusalem.

1:20:53 Oh wow, Okay. Energetically, the fortress symbolizes the conde material energy anchored in its form. The power of the four, however, does not lie in the material itself, but rather in the manner in which we give it structure and meaning, and how we place it in the center of our considerations. On the negative side, it corresponds to the attempt of constructing one's own reality within the effects of the eternal and idolizing it. Sudra, like everything that he built was like his own personal like vision of this next part is very much. It speaks to sort of like the da Vinci of the camera obscura, and then also as an inventor. Yeah, I was gonna mention that too, when you said like light and shadow and things and like reminded me of the camera. Yeah. On the positive side, however, it is in accordance with the higher insight that such models of thought in reality may be useful and helpful, but should never be allowed to lay claim to being the absolute truth. They should instead remain helpful models. The inner level of this card represents us with the wholeness of creation, which is interesting in the context of like baths yeah, because that goes back to sort of it

1:22:25 has kind of a symbolic linkage with like being in the womb. Wow, you're so esoteric apparently, and exploring the hidden sense of it is the task of humanity. Wow, okay, very esoteric. Like even the all of the interpretations are I mean, it's wow. Whoever said this was more straightforward? Is this book is I mean at least helping to interpret but wow, to interpret the interpretations? Wow wow wow wow. The professional sphere the four signified stability, structure, clarity, order, and consistency. It is thereby an indication of phases of consolidation in which what has been achieved is also secured. Additionally, it indicates successful periods of work where plans are realized and positions are expanded expanded. They did that. I'm like, I found a word. I can I know something that it's saying. Yeah, okay, so there. I'm not going to go through all of these, but there is one that I've already peeved. Okay, image the fortress though, I mean a castle on a cliff side. Holy shit.

1:23:45 Just like the fact that it's talking about a building is like so fitting, just like any building. Analogy data lists. Forefather of the Greek sculptors and architects, built labyrinth for King Minos. I didn't include it, but there is a rock labyrinth that lands in that you can like hike to and it's like a little like like labyrinth in the rocks, just so cool. It's not like big bushes or anything. You can like see the path. But that's so interesting. Yeah, that's that's all. I have for you. I say that as if that wasn't like the longest esoteric bullshit you've ever spewed. I mean, there's there's a lot there too unpack. It is definitely far more dense. It's not nearly as accessible as a lot of the interpretations that we yeah find in our other guide books.

1:24:44 Yes, so don't worry, we won't be like using that all the time solely because I can't fucking understand the path that ship. I do think it's interesting though, when it specifically is a card that, like in our main guidebook, there's some understand alternate Yeah, so I think that's interesting. There's some added context or insight there. The labyrinth was so interesting because I was like, oh, I want to include that, but it was just it's just a little kind of a blur. I've included a lot of things, so there's a lot, there's a lot going on, but there's like a. Ton of hiking in the area. So I want to like go visit and find the little labyrinth and yeah, I should show you after this.

1:25:28 Yeah, okay, well I think the thing. Yeah, let's go. I feel like every time we're like, let's go eat because we're stoleving. Yeah, basically, yes day. We'll see you next Tuesday's day, You'll be here. We'll be here. It's a whole thing unless you're lost in you know, justin Selena Benny Hailey drama on TikTok Oh. I thought you were going to say lost in a labyrinth or lost in the labyrinth for sure, could be you could be lost in a labyrinth and they're just playing that on the loudspeakers, which I thought you bitny, now get out of my head. No never, I can't, I can't, I can't. No, I'm done. I'm done with the brain rot for today, So goodbye bye.

1:26:22 I'll tell Taylor really quick. I wrote this episode and then completely forgot to look. Up the hauntings. This is haunts and homicide. You dumb bitch. So that's what I did this morning when I woke up in a panic remembering that I forgot. You're like, wait, did we call the show Homicides and History hants? Homicides in History actually would be a pretty good name. Yeah,