Revenge Porn: The Dark Side of Digital Privacy Violations

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[MUSIC]

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Listen, I'm here for Free the Nipple.

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If that's what the owner of said Nipple, so desires,

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we have to admit that the fact that laws in the US and in any particular state

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and question didn't prevent something like this from happening to an unsuspecting minor,

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a child, that's problematic.

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[MUSIC]

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, creepy people.

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Oh, hello.

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Hello.

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This is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime.

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How frequently I bite my lip, also the paranormal.

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And I don't know some other stuff too.

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A lot of other spooky stuff in the Pacific Northwest.

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Yes.

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PNW, if you're nasty.

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We also talk about some tarot at the end of the episode.

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We do a little card poll just for a little deeper insight into our topic for the day.

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Yeah, that's true.

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It's fun.

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Yeah, sometimes I take a brief break from chewing on my own face to do that.

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I was going to say your lip chewing is kind of like true crime and paranormal.

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I don't know about that, but cannibalism.

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Yeah.

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Oh, goodness.

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Oh, hopefully that's not your story today.

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No.

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Okay, good.

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So I can't handle it today.

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No, no cannibalism.

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Actually, that's one that I haven't really covered frequently.

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It doesn't come up in a lot of my cases.

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I feel like it did come up.

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It has.

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Okay.

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But it's one of my no-nose.

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So, yeah.

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So I kind of tend to, I guess, gravitate towards other things.

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Yeah, the only cannibalism we like is like the Kesha song, you know?

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Yeah, exactly.

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Exactimundo.

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I just realized I'm still all zipped up

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than you're a tracksuit.

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I was going to say what did you call this earlier tracksuit.

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I'm basically just wearing pajamas.

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These are pajamas, okay?

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It's a tracksuit, whatever.

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Okay, you're making it sound worse than it is.

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I just heard it.

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Early 2000s tracksuit.

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I'm surprised it's not bright pink.

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Oh my god, I hate you.

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I hate you and Chris because he said,

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does it say juicy on the ass?

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I love it.

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They're coming back.

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You're very in fashion right now.

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I never had a juicy tracksuit.

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Meaning there.

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Yeah, I wasn't that cool.

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I feel like this isn't the point in my life where I'm going to start either, you know?

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Like, I had like a pair of the pink sweatpants that said pink on the butt.

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Oh yeah.

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Victoria's secret, but that was it.

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Yeah.

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And they were like low rise, so they didn't even fit on my butt because my butt is big fat juicy.

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One, I think at the point where that was really, really popular,

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that's when I worked at the Victoria's Secret at the mall.

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So I got all kinds of, all kinds of stuff.

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Thongs 5 for 25.

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Yeah.

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Oh my god.

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Now it was like 10 for 25 sometimes.

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It was just like, we'll pay you to take them.

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Please, we have too many.

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Yeah.

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Extra small.

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Extra extra small.

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A flash.

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Yeah.

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Anyways, I wanted to show, this is one of the shirts that I made for an event.

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And we had a couple of people comment on Patreon recently that they're like,

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where can I get that shirt?

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And I was like, oh, I guess technically you can.

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Because I just signed it.

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And it was like partially a design that tail in did.

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And I like did some other little like, tweaky things to it and ordered it for my science.

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They're so cute.

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Eventually we'll get them up for people.

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We just, yeah, I, I, I time to figure it out.

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Yeah, I commented on Patreon though actually that I was going to try to make like an official,

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get my shit together basically and make an official like announcement and let people know.

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I was thinking we should do a,

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I keep wanting to call it like a pre order.

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But it's, I mean, I guess technically a pre order, but also not.

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But just do like a limited merch run for the Patreon and put this bad boy in there.

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Yeah, so I was thinking I might try to do that.

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And I basically just have people sign up and let us know if they want there.

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If you want one because we don't want to print a bunch if nobody wants them.

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But they're so cute.

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They're super cute.

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You should have told me I would have worn mine today.

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Well, I'm kind of cold.

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So I'm in a sweater.

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I was going to say I almost brought my heat up blanket and I'm kind of regretting.

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I think I have a heating pad if it gets desperate.

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So yeah, we're just talking about that.

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I have a headache and it feels good when my head is cold,

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but not when the rest of my body is cold.

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Yeah, it's a complicated situation.

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Where my migraine people say it.

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Cheers.

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Cheers.

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Or the one who wants to make for your brain.

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I just wanted to say before I actually get started with the case at the episode today.

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This is one that I think I teased like, I don't know, months ago.

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Because I did another case that kind of had to do with a similar topic.

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And I didn't really go in depth about this specifically.

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But I'd been wanting to do it for a while.

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And then for a little while, it was like, oh, this is going to be a bonus episode.

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And then there was a lot more than I thought.

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And here we are.

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So I've hinted at this topic before.

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I don't know if anybody remembers.

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I barely remember.

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So yeah, you know what it is also.

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So I don't remember.

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Yeah.

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I know you've said it earlier today.

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Probably and I don't remember.

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So oh, I remember.

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Goldfish brain.

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I don't think you do because I maybe I don't.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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No, you're thinking of the other one.

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Oh, the one that we were talking about doing with our one of our party besties.

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I am thinking of that one.

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Yeah, I'm not doing that one.

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So I'm no clue what this is.

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This is exciting.

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Everybody really knows.

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Jesus Christ.

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Shot up and get to it.

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Got to do it.

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And now yeah, that's the one thing.

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I do actually I have some screenshots of a couple of like comments and reviews

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that have come in recently from people who

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clearly need to find a documentary to watch.

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Right.

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Yes.

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Not everybody loves the banter.

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And to that I say,

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we perhaps are not the podcast for you.

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Should we banter for 10 more minutes before we start just to piss those people off?

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Oh my gosh.

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Well, they're already pissed off.

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Somebody and this is really funny.

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I really do think maybe when we do the tarot,

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I will pull it the screenshot and actually read it.

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Because like it was a very specifically like it.

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It sounded like she was our mom and she was disappointed.

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And there were some very specific like guidelines and like,

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like these are action items.

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And I'll check back.

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Oh, oh, right.

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Yeah, is this the one you showed me the other day?

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Yeah, I think so.

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And you were like, that's not going to happen.

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But thank you.

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You can start a podcast.

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Look, if you don't like our podcast, start your own.

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Yeah.

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Or find one of the other millions that yeah, doesn't talk.

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You guys, it's like a really inexpensive hobby and or business to start.

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I just feel like everyone should do it.

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Or like you said, find a documentary, find something else.

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Yeah, find if you don't like us.

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You don't have to stay here.

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Yeah.

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I mean, we hope you do.

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We hope our creepy people who love us stay here.

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Yeah.

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Honestly, like whatever you can do to help us with our, you know,

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download numbers and retention rate would be great.

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All right.

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In July of 2016, a 31 year old man was sentenced to six months in jail and five years of probation

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after pleading not guilty to several charges before the Washington County Court in Hillsboro, Oregon.

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Ooh, Hillsboro.

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Yeah, we know her.

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I know.

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It's only six months.

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Yeah.

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So probably wasn't that bad of a crime, right?

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You might argue.

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I guess we'll see.

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No, I think that's kind of exactly the reaction I would expect you to have.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It's unfortunate.

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Oh no.

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He was found guilty by the jury of five counts of unlawful dissemination of an intimate image.

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Though it should be noted that he will not be required to register as a sex offender.

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And to be honest, I think that's at least one fuck up in this case.

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You know, aside from just him as a person, the perpetrator, he's definitely a fuck up of a human.

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Wow.

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Okay.

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That's pretty serious.

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Yeah.

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Sure is.

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I mean, you wouldn't know it based on the sentencing.

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Right.

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You picked it right up.

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I was putting it down.

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You picked it up.

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You get it.

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You're welcome.

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I'm glad I could be here for you to pick up your things.

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Pick up my things.

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Always cleaning up after this bitch.

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That is my job.

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Just cleaning up after people.

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So, yeah.

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There you go.

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Nailed it.

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Benjamin J. Barber of Hillsboro was also ordered not to contact his victim or her family.

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Oh nice.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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Great.

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Judge Beth Roberts also ordered him to attend a survivor's impact panel.

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Hopefully they just duct tape him to the chair and gag him for maximum impact.

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Right.

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So, he doesn't speak during it or interrupt or exactly.

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And I know probably some people are like,

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"But, Caitlyn, what about the Geneva Convention?"

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What about it?

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Who is Geneva.

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I never heard of her.

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Never heard of her.

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I don't think that's technically torture through.

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I don't know.

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Is that the thing where you can like shouldn't torture people?

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Yeah.

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It's basically the code of conduct or the rules of engagement for

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conflict.

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But the military can do it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I mean, it kind of outlines basically like, "Hey, so it's not super chill when you like,

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I don't know, go after like unarmed civilians and stuff."

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Yeah.

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That doesn't sound cool.

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I don't know anywhere in the world that that's happening right now.

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No, me neither.

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Certainly not being funded by all of the largest corporations.

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The world is hard right now, you guys.

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The world, it's a tough place.

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Yeah.

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And the neutrals still listen to this.

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So, boy.

266
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:17,760
At the time of his conviction, he was believed to be amongst the first of a very elite group of

267
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:24,800
creeps to be charged under Oregon House Bill 2596, which states that it provides that

268
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:32,720
a person who records another person's intimate areas commits a crime of invasion of privacy.

269
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,200
Because no duh.

270
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:35,600
Sure.

271
00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:41,600
But somehow we have to codify everything that should be basic human decency

272
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,880
so that when some gross-ass douche canoe acts against others within the community, they can be punished.

273
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:54,480
I mean, if they have to put like warning labels, like, don't put this firework on your head.

274
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:55,920
Don't eat the tide pod.

275
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,520
Yeah.

276
00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:58,480
I guess, yeah.

277
00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,600
I feel like I'm not that surprised.

278
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:02,080
Yeah.

279
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,480
I don't see it getting a whole lot better.

280
00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:09,440
Which is why we can't have nice things.

281
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,920
I want to keep my nice body parts to me.

282
00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:14,400
Thank you.

283
00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:14,880
Yeah.

284
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,080
I just had to show them.

285
00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:16,880
Yeah.

286
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:17,680
Which I might.

287
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:18,320
Yeah.

288
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:19,040
Only fans.

289
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:30,320
The House Bill summary further states that the amendment to ORS 163.700 creates crime of

290
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,520
unlawful dissemination of an intimate image.

291
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:44,800
It punishes by maximum of one year imprisonment a $6,250 fine or both for first offense

292
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:52,560
and five years imprisonment $125,000 fine or both for subsequent offense.

293
00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:53,440
Shit.

294
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,040
So I mean, he could have at least gotten a full year.

295
00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:57,520
I know.

296
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:59,360
Like, why six months, that's yes.

297
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:00,080
I don't know.

298
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:00,560
A year.

299
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:01,840
A nice round number.

300
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:02,080
Yeah.

301
00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:03,440
Yeah.

302
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:09,440
You have a year to think about what you did with someone else's private intimate zones.

303
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:09,440
Yeah.

304
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:10,800
That's right.

305
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:18,720
Barber told Oregon reporters that the videos he posted of himself and a partner were

306
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,520
copyrighted.

307
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:26,560
That he had the right to post them and that his victim tried to use the videos as blackmail.

308
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,280
I mean, that's not cool if that happened.

309
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,120
I mean, it's not.

310
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:32,480
He's the one that posted that.

311
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:33,120
Right.

312
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,000
So how is you posting them?

313
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,720
She's trying to blackmail unless she tried first.

314
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,400
Like, oh, I'm going to post these if you don't.

315
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,800
He's like, well, fuck, I'm just going to post them anyway.

316
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:45,360
Yeah.

317
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:45,600
No.

318
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,520
Anyways, it's like a likely story.

319
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,760
I mean, come on, dude.

320
00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:57,920
Luckily, this he said, she said, has a slightly different ending than what most of us have

321
00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,760
become all too accustomed to hearing.

322
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,080
I mean, kind of not really.

323
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,040
It's still a very broad turner outcome in my mind.

324
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,280
Give him a full year.

325
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:13,280
And honestly, I think if he posted multiple images or multiple videos,

326
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,440
each one should be a separate offense.

327
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:16,240
Oh, yeah.

328
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,040
So then not?

329
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:22,320
I'm not sure how much or what specifically he posted.

330
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:28,480
There's a lot of it that obviously to kind of protect the person who's already been victimized.

331
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,600
It's like obvious.

332
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,680
And I wouldn't want to go look at it now if I could, but yeah.

333
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:34,800
Yeah.

334
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:35,840
Nothing.

335
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:44,160
So Benjamin J or BJ, which side note is something I sincerely, sincerely,

336
00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:45,600
hope he never receives again.

337
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:52,400
Uploaded not just one, but multiple videos of himself and the woman to various websites

338
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,080
of a pornographic nature.

339
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:55,280
Oh, man.

340
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:55,840
Yeah.

341
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,280
So like I said, I mean, yes, it's more than one.

342
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:04,320
Obviously, I didn't look at them and I hope that nobody can anymore.

343
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,080
I hope so too.

344
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:06,320
Yeah.

345
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,720
Now that we're uploading to YouTube, I almost auto corrected to corn.

346
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:17,760
You know, I never heard that until the other day when it was on like a,

347
00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,040
it was on a real someone sent me.

348
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:22,080
I don't remember.

349
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,440
But it said something about this is in the how to corn emoji.

350
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:26,480
And I was like, huh?

351
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,240
Was I like, oh, porn?

352
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:28,960
I love that.

353
00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:36,720
Of course, the videos were produced while the two were a couple during what I assume were

354
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,680
happier times.

355
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,520
I hope so.

356
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,760
I hope she was having fun at least in them.

357
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:42,000
Yeah.

358
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:50,000
By the time good old BJ posts them, it was in the aftermath of their breakup.

359
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,840
Not cool, dude.

360
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,680
What do they call that?

361
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,400
Revenge corn.

362
00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,080
The revenge of the corn.

363
00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,280
Yes, exactly.

364
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,800
Not cool, dude.

365
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,720
Which is actually essentially a direct quote from the judge.

366
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,880
Not cool, dude.

367
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,920
She was like, wow.

368
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:21,280
His defense counsel argued that he believed he had the right to do what he wanted with the videos.

369
00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:27,440
And also that for some reason he felt like his ex-romantic partner had no particular right to

370
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:28,320
privacy.

371
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,080
Just the fact that you would assume that.

372
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,240
It's like make it make sense.

373
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:33,120
In title, man.

374
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,520
That's just a man being entitled bullshit.

375
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:36,320
Yes.

376
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:36,960
Red pill.

377
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,800
Here's the thing.

378
00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:44,560
All of the reporting indicates that she only discovered the videos existed after he threatened to

379
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:45,200
upload them.

380
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,840
So that adds a whole extra layer.

381
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,400
So she didn't know she was being filmed.

382
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,440
Doesn't sound like that's fucked.

383
00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,240
That's fucked.

384
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:56,480
Yeah.

385
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,760
So thanks for making this such a clear cut case of straight up Revenge corn beach.

386
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:03,760
Beach.

387
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:10,640
Seriously though, I'm sure the prosecution was ready to come to the table with all the receipts,

388
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,920
but it sounds like I mean, he basically he served it up on a platter.

389
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,040
Wow.

390
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:16,880
He admitted.

391
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:23,920
Just the circumstances like she did not consent to being recorded in the first place.

392
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,360
Not that if you had been then it makes it right.

393
00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:28,800
No, but no.

394
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:32,960
Just because you recorded that doesn't then also give somebody permission to go

395
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,560
anywhere.

396
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,080
But what was she wearing?

397
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:36,400
Yeah.

398
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:44,560
And just in case you were tempted into thinking that this might be an isolated incident for some reason,

399
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,640
you've lived like Bambi in the woods.

400
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:54,080
Oh, although let's be honest, Bambi didn't have it so easy either.

401
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:54,320
No.

402
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,600
Like do you not read or watch the news?

403
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,320
My questions because yeah, he's not the only dude.

404
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,560
Yeah.

405
00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:09,760
Not the only dude for like a long time too.

406
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,360
Like I'm sure this isn't happening forever and ever.

407
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:14,880
Oh yeah.

408
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:19,520
I'm sure drawings of naked ladies have been shared amongst men.

409
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:20,560
Oh yeah.

410
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:26,800
People have them tattooed which, you know, if it's not of a particular person,

411
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:27,200
right?

412
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,120
And it's your body to what you wish, but okay, listen.

413
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:38,880
When we get to it because yes, obviously there's a whole gaggle of these ridiculous individuals.

414
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:43,760
This is what made me so fucking hangry.

415
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:47,120
I'm scared of Caitlyn right now.

416
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:57,360
It's not great when I go nonverbal, but that's how you know.

417
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,760
Okay, I mean, I'm just going to let you know.

418
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,160
This is not a joke.

419
00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:08,240
Jay David Leatherwood.

420
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,360
I'm not laughing you said it's not a joke.

421
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,720
It honestly seems like he like his name is a porn name.

422
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,720
Yeah, leather wood.

423
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:21,520
I can't believe it.

424
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:28,080
Well, he descendants to two years of probation and 80 hours of community service

425
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:35,360
after entering an amended guilty plea to three counts under the revenge porn law in the very same

426
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:35,680
court.

427
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,160
So we're not even talking about like, these are,

428
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:50,080
they're all in the same small local court doing the same exact

429
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,640
disgusting shit.

430
00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,960
No, and I'm going to be honest, it's all like in a pretty close timeline.

431
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,840
So just extrapolating out for how many disgusting

432
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,320
instances of this that there must be a hit it.

433
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,320
This was after he posted sexually explicit images of a woman on the internet.

434
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:19,920
Also in July of 2016, clearly learning nothing from BeeJ's experience before a judge.

435
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:25,360
But the name like that, he was clearly destined for the adult entertainment industry, but

436
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,600
that comes with regulation.

437
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,080
So I guess he decided to go another way.

438
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,000
Why don't you just post your own self?

439
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,760
I don't get like, or find somebody else who's interested in the same thing.

440
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,680
Isn't that more fun when they're like actually enjoying it and interested in it?

441
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,280
Not if you're garbage.

442
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:49,840
The most egregious and appalling case that I want to touch on briefly comes from

443
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,720
also Washington County.

444
00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:59,680
Where prosecutors charged Patrick Buono with invasion of privacy for taking photos,

445
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:06,320
up skirt photos of a 13 year old girl in a Beaverton target store.

446
00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,360
That's gross.

447
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,200
It gets grosser.

448
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:18,240
Because Patrick was a 61 year old man at the time, which is horrifying, but there's still more

449
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,360
because of course there is.

450
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:24,240
I don't want Patrick the pervert in my head when I go to target.

451
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:29,920
But he lives there now, rent free because the judge that presided over his case

452
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,120
found he'd violated no law.

453
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,360
Isn't that like child porn?

454
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,480
Unfortunately, at the time, that was true.

455
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,120
He had broken no law.

456
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:49,360
Because there are no child porn laws, but it wasn't that long ago.

457
00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:50,160
I'm going to get to it.

458
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,120
Oh my god.

459
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,440
I got 13.

460
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:54,160
Are you kidding me?

461
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,400
Okay.

462
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,440
I just feel like I don't know if there's a way that I can like,

463
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:09,040
say, I might have to read it off a couple of times because it just takes a minute to wrap your head

464
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,680
around how disgusting this like justification is.

465
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,560
And it's another one of those things where it's like,

466
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,520
we have to put that into law.

467
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,720
Like, this is fucking Christ.

468
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,080
No common sense.

469
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:24,960
No decency.

470
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,440
Just absolute trash.

471
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:33,600
Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't even know which way is up in this case.

472
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,520
If I'm being honest, the girl was wearing underwear.

473
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:44,640
So, Buono's actions constituted neither invasion of privacy nor child pornography.

474
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,880
Wow.

475
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:53,440
I think I just assumed that like, underwear is still private and like taking a picture of a kid

476
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,520
in their underwear is still porn.

477
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,560
But right, it's not and here's the thing.

478
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:06,640
Either way, whether it's an image of a child or of an adult,

479
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,800
like to me, that constitutes an image that's pornographic in nature.

480
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,800
If it's a child, we classify that as child sex abuse materials.

481
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:18,960
Yeah.

482
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:25,200
So like just on multiple fronts, just no.

483
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:26,880
No.

484
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,720
I feel like, so I could see people making the argument like, it's like a bathing suit or whatever.

485
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,520
But I feel like if you're wearing clothes,

486
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,760
right, you didn't choose to walk out and public in a bathing suit.

487
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:40,160
Yeah.

488
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,640
If you're wearing clothes, if someone is going underneath your clothes without your consent,

489
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,000
like that's just, but should just be a no-brainer.

490
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,240
Yeah, I'm so glad that we're on the same page here.

491
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,520
This could have been the end of our friendship if we weren't.

492
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:54,080
I know, right?

493
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,880
Can you imagine?

494
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:55,840
Oh my god.

495
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,280
The judge called Buono's behavior "lude" and appalling.

496
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,360
Wait, his name is Bono.

497
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,320
I mean, I think it's pronounced “Bwono?"

498
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:07,520
Buono?

499
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,640
Yeah, yeah.

500
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,200
Okay, I'm like, don't ruin Sonny's good name like that.

501
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:11,600
Okay.

502
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,240
I know.

503
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,400
It's so funny because I kept thinking about that when I was writing this.

504
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:22,080
Anyway, this was major news at the time here in the Pacific Northwest, at least.

505
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,480
I remember hearing about this case and I was like,

506
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,840
"Lah?"

507
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,640
"I don't."

508
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:28,480
Obviously long before the pod.

509
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,080
Yeah.

510
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:35,840
Now, this next section, I'm lifting directly from the courthouse news service article that I found

511
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,040
dated December 2nd of 2016.

512
00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:46,720
Oregon is among 34 states and the District of Columbia with Revenge porn laws on the books.

513
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,280
34.

514
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,160
Not all 51.

515
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:51,760
I was like, how many states do we have again?

516
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,880
I like to say 51, just to be funny, but...

517
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,760
Can we guess the states that don't have the Revenge porn laws?

518
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,640
Yeah, I mean, I bet you could probably guess a lot in the South.

519
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,720
Okay.

520
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:10,320
Oregon is among 34 states and the District of Columbia with Revenge porn laws on the books.

521
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:16,640
However, US Representative Jackie Spear, a Democrat from California,

522
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,800
introduced the Intimate Privacy Protection Act in Congress,

523
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,440
which would make Revenge porn a federal crime.

524
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,560
Out here, just doing the Lord's work.

525
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,720
It should be a federal crime.

526
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,120
Yeah.

527
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:30,800
It should be a world crime.

528
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,680
Yeah. It should be against the Geneva Convention.

529
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,040
Crime against humanity.

530
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:35,680
Yes.

531
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:35,920
Yes.

532
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:43,040
I mean, it just makes it so that judges' hands aren't tied in a disgusting case where it's like everything in

533
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:49,920
your body and your brain says like, "Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck."

534
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,120
But you can't do anything about it.

535
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,720
That would be so shitty.

536
00:25:55,360 --> 00:26:01,040
I can't even imagine. I feel like that has to really shake people that went into

537
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:12,320
law enforcement or the judicial system hoping to actually do something meaningful in their

538
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,520
career that has a positive impact on the world.

539
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,200
I feel like that's a priest who finds out God's not real.

540
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,360
I mean, I mean.

541
00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:22,880
Kind of simpler to that.

542
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:24,000
Yeah, a little bit.

543
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,240
Yeah.

544
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:30,160
Civil rights advocates, including the American Civil Liberties Union, have opposed

545
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:36,720
federal legislation against revenge porn, as well as state laws stating that they are

546
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,160
overboard and restrict free speech.

547
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,680
To show someone else's body is restricting free speech?

548
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:45,920
No.

549
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,880
The argument here is that the way that some...

550
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,240
the way that it's worded is to broad in some cases.

551
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:02,080
And here I have a quote that kind of expands on why they feel like that's a case.

552
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,440
This is a quote.

553
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,440
So we know somebody actually said these words and I'm not making them up.

554
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,080
And I don't want to be associated with this, but here we go.

555
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,200
Oh, God.

556
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,920
You shouldn't need a permission slip to post images of horrific torture from

557
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:23,680
Abu Ghraib or the Nape Home Girl photograph that contributed mightily to changing American attitudes

558
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:27,440
about the Vietnam War, said ACLU Attorney.

559
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:35,120
We roll in in a written response to an Arizona law that banned publishing any new photo without

560
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,400
the subject's consent.

561
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:44,400
And in a way, I can understand the argument because specifically in Abu Ghraib and I'm not

562
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,080
well-versed in all of the specifics of what happened at Abu Ghraib.

563
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:59,360
But I do know that there was a lot of just general torture, but there was torture specifically of like a

564
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,760
sadistic sexual nature.

565
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:11,520
So again, in that instance, is it wrong to publish something that basically

566
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,840
sheds light on that horrific situation?

567
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:23,360
That's such a difficult, but one of these things is not like the other.

568
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:30,560
Yeah, I feel like they're very different, but that's still like a person that was yeah tortured

569
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,240
and had horrible things done to them and like how are they?

570
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,880
I don't know if they're passed on, but like how how would they feel about that being shared?

571
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:39,360
I don't know.

572
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,680
It is difficult. Yeah, I feel like depending on whether it's posthumous or the person is still alive

573
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:54,320
that maybe has an impact on how people feel about whether or not those images should be shared.

574
00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:08,400
I think specifically when it comes to sharing those types of images in a journalistic capacity,

575
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:15,920
there are things that can be done in order to protect the identity of that individual

576
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:24,400
so that the message about like, you know, as he's saying, you know, horrific torture.

577
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,840
So the things like that can be brought to light, but also with, you know, respect to a victim.

578
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:36,880
The difference is that none of these guys, you know, like Benjamin, he's not

579
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:46,800
guttle beige. He's not blurring the face of his ex-girlfriend who he recorded without her knowledge.

580
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,600
Yeah, there has to be like language you can put into the lot. Like they're smart people.

581
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,720
They can figure out a way to write in, but I do agree that I guess that is really broad and

582
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,360
and it should have something. Like quick, we need an English major. Yeah. We need

583
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:07,040
Caitlyn. She's gonna write the, get a lawyer in an English major in a room together

584
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,560
or better yet, maybe a lawyer who was also an English major in their undergrad, you know.

585
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,040
Fuck yeah, like it's that hard.

586
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:23,120
You guys, we have something really exciting to share with you. Let's hear a few words from our new pod

587
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:31,360
besties. This is That's So Fucked Up, a podcast about cult murder and other fucked up stuff. Like,

588
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:38,960
really, really fucked up stuff. He tore out her heart, tied it to a rope and hung it on the wall.

589
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:47,680
Fucking sharks? Eight mark under the dinghy. After his dad dies, he fucking marries all his dad's

590
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:55,840
wives. Oh yeah. He like marries all his stepmoms. I'm your host Ashley Love Richards.

591
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:02,000
Find That So Fucked Up, anywhere you listen to podcasts. That's what. Check them out, creepy people.

592
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,640
Their info is in our show notes.

593
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:13,920
A federal judge in Arizona ordered the state to stop enforcing that law last year in a settlement

594
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:20,640
with a coalition of publishers, librarians and photographers. Listen, I'm here for free the

595
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:27,360
nipple if that's what the owner of said nipple so desires, but you have to admit that the fact that

596
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:34,800
laws in the US and in any particular state in question didn't prevent something like this from

597
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:42,800
happening to an unsuspecting minor, a child. That's problematic. So they didn't change the law. They

598
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:49,520
just like got rid of it entirely to my knowledge, at least at the time when I would, you know,

599
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:54,240
this is something that certainly in the last few months since I first started researching this case,

600
00:31:54,240 --> 00:32:02,240
it's possible that there could have been a change to that. I'm not really perusing Arizona case

601
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:09,600
precedent and stuff like on the day, but still that happened. Yeah. Yeah. Hot take, but if you don't

602
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:14,720
know the difference between shit like upskirt videos, which is what legislation like this

603
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:25,440
is intended to criminalize along with revenge porn versus images of war crimes, etc.

604
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:32,480
That really should be covered under freeze speech to protect the integrity of journalism.

605
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:40,720
There's no amount of legislating that will help your sick dumb ass. Man, again, we shall continue to

606
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:47,600
have exactly zero nice things in this reality. It kind of makes you hope we are living in a simulation.

607
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:58,560
I can't wait for the next simulation, you guys.

608
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:08,880
What do we move on to the like what do we have to do? Do you think like if we go to the

609
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:14,800
Scientology place where you were, you know, cursing out Tom Cruise, how much you have to donate to move

610
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,560
into the next reality? I don't know. Should we go ask? Probably should we go get our things red?

611
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:27,600
Worth a shot. I really know. I never got to want to so bad. No, I just listen. I want to fake ID

612
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:34,080
though. So I can like if they ask for my ID because they probably will, right? I don't want them to

613
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,440
know my true identity. Yeah. Not like they can't take a picture of my face and like Google image

614
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:48,000
search it now. I know. It's like a web series. Yeah. We're a girl that flipped off Tom Cruise in the

615
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:55,840
in the video camera outside of our building in downtown. Wow. Yeah. I mean, they've got the time

616
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:03,280
and the resources. And the tiny Tom. Yeah. And the tiny Tom. Okay. So speaking of how we have

617
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:09,200
zero nice things in this reality. Case in point was the petition for post conviction relief that was

618
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:16,640
filed by the two numbs goals already mentioned along with a third petitioner named Jacob Patrick

619
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:24,320
Holton. He's supposed Jacob's stupid. Oh, really? Is it like a queue situation? No, it's Jacob.

620
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:32,240
Jacob. Why? Oh, Jacob. I want to see a Jacob. Jacob. I would like that. I can get with that.

621
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:35,840
This guy just sucks. And he spells his name like Jaycob.

622
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,520
Anyways, if you don't suck and spell your name like that, you're fine. Yeah, you're fine. It's really

623
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:49,760
just about the fuckery on his other areas of life. I looked into him a little bit and I'll be honest,

624
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:55,920
this topic just pissed me off so much that I decided not to tug at that thread. But apparently,

625
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:00,240
he's likely living in the tiger area of Oregon. So just a heads up on that.

626
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,440
These morons filed the petition challenging the constitutionality of their convictions.

627
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:13,280
But ultimately, the petition was dismissed because and you just cannot make this shit up.

628
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:20,000
Although petitioner Barber, names two additional petitioners in the caption of the petition,

629
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:30,000
neither of these two individuals submitted the five dollar filing fee or an informal

630
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,000
poprist application or signed the petition. So like literally couldn't come up with 10 bucks

631
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,280
and figure it the fuck out to sign a piece of paper. Interesting.

632
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:48,320
Accordingly, the court dismisses the claims of petitioners' leatherwood and hulton.

633
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:55,280
The remainder of the reasons that the petition were dismissed are equally fucking dumb.

634
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:04,960
The court notes that petitioner initiated this action by filing a petition for post-conviction

635
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:10,240
relief under Oregon Revised Statutes. And I won't rate it all. It's not that interesting. If you

636
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:17,920
need the serial code, let me know. Him, yeah, which he seeks to remove to this court under another

637
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:25,360
lengthy serial code. It's a thing. First, a challenge to the legality of a state court conviction

638
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:30,480
may be brought in federal court only through an application for a writ of habeas corpus,

639
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:37,520
pursuant to another legal code. Second, the removal statute cited by petitioner Barber

640
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:44,400
applies only to the removal of a civil action in which any party asserts a claim for relief

641
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:52,880
arising under any act of Congress relating to patents, plant variety protections or copyrights.

642
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:59,440
The petition for state post-conviction relief referenced by petitioner Barber does not fall within

643
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:13,360
the purview of said statute code thing, the law. Third, and it mentions that this same very fancy code,

644
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:21,040
maybe I should name her. Vess in the district court, original jurisdiction of any civil action

645
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,560
arising under any act of Congress relating to patents.

646
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:33,840
Document filed 1, 2, 2019 page 3 of 5, plant variety protection, copyrights and trademarks.

647
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,960
As with the removal statute, petitioners claims do not fall within the purview.

648
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,040
Basically, don't be a dumbass and represent yourself, especially if you're guilty.

649
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:52,720
He pulled some fucking Ted Bundy shit here. He thought he was so smart.

650
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,320
Why do people think that it didn't work out for Teddy Boy?

651
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,520
Like, who does this guy think he is? Monsanto?

652
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:00,560
I don't know.

653
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:00,960
That is.

654
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:07,600
They're the people that do the genetically modified seeds and shit and are ruining

655
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:14,400
single-handedly, essentially, our agricultural industry and probably our immune systems and a lot of

656
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,760
other... It's debatable, maybe.

657
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:24,320
Also, you're not a plant or someone trying to patent anything plant-based.

658
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,120
Right. I was very confused by all that.

659
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,480
Yeah. Yeah.

660
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,600
You're too dumb to understand how to thwart the legal consequences of your actions,

661
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:39,920
and also, apparently, your friends agree to the extent that they wouldn't even risk

662
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:47,120
five dollars on the petition. Yeah. Like, did they just not get each other's numbers to like,

663
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,360
you know, coordinate? Like, it's so funny.

664
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,400
There's a couple more pages of legalese, but I think we've mined for the gold.

665
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,040
We found the nuggets that are worth anything. We found the butt nuggets.

666
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,000
Butt nuggets?

667
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,960
Beige told the Oregonian, after his sentencing, that he uploaded the videos in April,

668
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:11,200
along with all of the data and files he had on a personal server.

669
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,640
He said he was contemplating suicide at the time and published all the items because he wanted to

670
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,400
memorialize all the things that I had done.

671
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,640
Okay.

672
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,000
The including the illegal things. I guess. Yeah.

673
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,080
Well, again, remember, he doesn't think that it's illegal.

674
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,360
It's just as I mean, just goes back to just that some in-sell shit.

675
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:44,800
I'll leave you with this excerpt from a 2021 paper entitled "The Role of Torts in the Fight Against

676
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,720
Non-Consensual Pornography."

677
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:48,320
Riveting.

678
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:55,440
"By Lindsay Holcomb from the University of Pennsylvania." So, you'd be the judge.

679
00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:01,520
93% of the victims of non-consensual porn are female.

680
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:09,280
"An images of women make up the vast majority of content posted on websites dedicated to non-consensual

681
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,840
pornography." I'm going to say that again.

682
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:18,400
"Websites dedicated to non-consensual pornography."

683
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,160
It's not okay.

684
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,800
"Men are twice as likely to have shared non-consensual porn than women

685
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:31,600
and women are 2.5 times as likely to have been threatened with non-consensual porn."

686
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:39,600
"People between the ages of 18 and 25 are far more likely to have perpetrated revenge porn than

687
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:47,200
people in other age groups, while people between the ages of 34 and 41 have reported the highest levels

688
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:52,160
of lifetime victimization of by non-consensual porn."

689
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:59,920
Finally, non-consensual porn is perpetrated against sexual minorities at rates slightly higher

690
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:05,520
than against individuals who identify as heterosexual. Because, of course,

691
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:12,960
all of these statistics speak to the dominant social force driving the non-consensual dissemination

692
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:22,720
of intimate images. The exercise of mastery, coercion, and control by advantaged groups over

693
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:31,600
the less powerful. The fucking patriarchy." Literally. "She found the classiest way to say it."

694
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,800
"Other than just the fucking patriarchy." "Look, this is pretty good timing for this episode."

695
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:42,000
"Yeah. I know. Just worked out that way. I've had this written for months."

696
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:48,160
Basically, what we're saying here is that, as with other true crime topics,

697
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:55,440
unfortunately, facts of life here, people. Sorry, not sorry, because I didn't do it.

698
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:01,600
Purpose traders are disproportionately male and also fuck the fucking patriarchy.

699
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,920
Say it one more time.

700
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:13,440
The fucking patriarchy. The same way that sexual assault is rarely really as much about sex as we might

701
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:21,280
think as it is about control. Surely, it must be obvious that these crimes, based largely on the

702
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,800
internet, really are too. It's just about having a sense of ownership or control over something that

703
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:36,320
does not belong to you. I don't understand the obsession. You have control over yourself.

704
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:45,680
Is that not enough for people? Not for everyone. That's all I have. Besides a burning desire to shower

705
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:53,120
and scrub myself with steel wool. Yeah, same. It reminds me of the documentary I watched with the

706
00:42:53,120 --> 00:43:00,800
you up website and the Swiffer girl. When I watched that documentary, it happened to be right around

707
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,360
the same time as I was writing these notes. I texted you about it. You're like, "Bitch."

708
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:12,720
I'm working on it. That was a hard thing to watch. Yeah, it was really awful.

709
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:18,160
Especially with the Swiffer girl one, because she took the video and sent it to someone,

710
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:26,800
but then they passed it around the school. It's like, "Yeah, she sent it, but not with the intention

711
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,320
of having everyone in the world see it and it ended up on the internet."

712
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:39,280
Honestly, I feel like not an apples to apples situation, but I feel like this sort of makes me think of

713
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:51,680
when it comes to drug enforcement laws. There are quantities that are by statute

714
00:43:51,680 --> 00:44:01,040
specified as four personal use versus if you have certain types of paraphernalia or a certain

715
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:09,760
quantity of substance of choice that is considered with its intent to distribute.

716
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,920
It's dissemination, which is like that's the difference in that case as well. It's like,

717
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:22,720
"Well, that was four personal use and you intended to distribute." She was underage too.

718
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:31,200
It was obviously child porn, but it was thinking, I don't know if they address this in the

719
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:37,920
documentary not spend so long, but if you're a child taking pictures or video of your own self,

720
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:48,400
is that considered you having porn if it's of yourself? I would imagine that that is case by case,

721
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:54,320
because every jurisdiction is going to be different, but I'm not aware of any case where

722
00:44:54,320 --> 00:45:02,320
that has actually, they don't typically go after a minor for that. It would be a weird thing to go

723
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,080
after. I feel like, but it just was like a thought in my head. It's like, wait, is that?

724
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:11,200
It gets into a very tricky gray area. I do know that there are instances where

725
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:21,200
law enforcement has essentially said, this is child porn, so you could be charged.

726
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:29,440
I know that technically by the letter of the law in some places, people have been told, you could

727
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:34,960
be charged for this. I don't know that I am aware of any cases where that was actually successfully

728
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:44,800
carried out. That feels like a gross mischaracterization in just that you're victimizing a person

729
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:51,680
all over again. If in the instance, like you were talking about with the documentary, I just

730
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:59,360
yeah, that's it was a hard one. Yeah. Well, I better go burn all of my teenage titty pictures.

731
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:08,320
So I don't get arrested. I think I do have one. I have one, but I think I was 18 when I took it.

732
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:14,560
You have to take them periodically and save them so that you can remember how beautiful you were.

733
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:24,480
And how perky. I've heard so many people say that. Take all of the new 12 year, you know,

734
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:34,800
while you're young, you like kick it back. No, I'm ancient. No, you've got to take them now too,

735
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,000
because when you're [Redacted], you're like dang. Look at them boobies!

736
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:48,720
I'm sorry. Did you say 29? I was like, we were going. I aged you. Sorry. I'm just kidding. We'll

737
00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:54,000
bleep it out. We don't want anyone to know how the kid one is. Yeah. And basically a fetus.

738
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:01,200
I guess should we do some tarot? I feel like that might make us feel better. Yeah, let's do some

739
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:10,880
tarot. Okay. Some titty tarot. So pleased with yourself. We're doing some tarot.

740
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:17,360
Tarot. Caitlyn Shuffle. She cleansed and shuffled this beautiful new deck. Do you want to tell us about

741
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:24,640
it? Oh, yeah. So I chose a deck that's vintage like all of these men with their trash ideas.

742
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:33,280
Yeah, welcome. Housewife tarot. It's so cute. It's like vintage like 1950s, like leave it to beaver,

743
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:44,000
type imagery. It's got like what is this? Plot. Checkers. Plot. Yeah, man. Ah, paper towels. We should

744
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:51,040
use this for flail man. Yeah, I didn't even realize that was the pattern on it. Damn. That's okay.

745
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:59,040
The mushroom one worked. Yeah, no, that was perfect. Amigurred. Okay. Give it one more good one

746
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:08,480
and then I'll spread them out for Caitlyn. Concentually. Yes. Only consensually spreading is allowed.

747
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:20,160
Oh, oh, this is so cute. Is it? I'm excited to see it. We got the two of cups. Oh, okay, but look

748
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:28,400
though. Oh my gosh, it's like the candle you put out is like the two people. Yeah. It's picking up a

749
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:36,560
vibe. It's two people in like champagne glasses, but it's not, it's like a mimosa kind of. I think it

750
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:45,520
might be like a campari drink. That was so popular. I don't know. I don't know. It's kind of bit,

751
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:54,640
I don't like it. I have zero time for that. Oh, wait, too bitter. What? Stop it. What? I'll have to look

752
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,800
it up. Okay, someone gave me a drink last night and it was like really bitter, like kind of great

753
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:06,000
fruity, orangey, cranberry. Yeah. Is it what is it? It might be a campari. That is fucking crazy. I'm

754
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,280
gonna text her right now and ask her what it was. Okay. We need to know. What are the fucking chances

755
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:17,200
of that? Why? I've never even heard of this drink before last night. Really? Yeah. Well, like I said,

756
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,200
I have zero time for that. It was delicious. I love it. It was like bitter. Oh, like I really love

757
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:27,280
bitter. Okay. You liked it. Yeah. I really liked it. Not a fan. But good for you. Glad you had it.

758
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:33,440
And that's so funny. Now it's like heavily featured all of a sudden. That's insane. What does it mean?

759
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:40,560
What does that mean? Okay. And on the surface, I feel like seems like maybe an odd card.

760
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:47,120
Two of cups, I feel like has such a positive connotation to it. But I feel like it's just channeling

761
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,800
what we've been saying this whole time. It's like, well, I'm gonna get into it. I believe you.

762
00:49:54,080 --> 00:50:00,720
Keywords for two of cups are partnership, harmony, creative exchange and cooperation.

763
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:08,560
You need all those things to put porn out there. Sure. Sure do. I would imagine. Yes.

764
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:14,240
Please. I just think it's talking about like a healthy partnership. Yeah. Yeah.

765
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:21,200
In many decks, the two of cups shows a man and woman holding chalices as if toasting each other.

766
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:27,440
Hey, girl. Cheers. I'll be the man. Chalice. Okay. I'm not tall enough. So.

767
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:37,600
Okay. The card represents joining forces with someone either romantically or in a creative/spiritual

768
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:44,480
endeavor. You share a common dream, interest or passion and can work together to bring it into being.

769
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:51,440
Mutual respect and equality exists between you. So just the opposite of everything that happened here.

770
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:55,360
Exactly. All of our hopes and prayers. That's impairs.

771
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:03,920
The upright two indicates a period of harmony when things go smoothly between you and another person.

772
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:10,960
Super the opposite, but that's fine. Could have been if you had all of these things like love and trust

773
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:20,080
and respect. Yes. Oh, okay. You're gonna love this. Next sentence. I think of this as the honeymoon card.

774
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:26,560
And we got out your honeymoon gift or your wedding gift. Yeah.

775
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:34,160
When you have high hopes and experience a time of accord, optimism, inspiration and goodwill.

776
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:41,120
In a reading about money, the upright two suggests a financial partnership or merging your resources

777
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:47,520
with someone else's for mutual gain. It can also mean financial support comes from a partner or

778
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:55,520
backer. Just making sure the tumor was over. We are making a cheesy, garlicky pull apart bread and

779
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:02,480
I could not be more excited. It is food porn. Oh my god, that's so true. We should take a

780
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:07,840
picture of the garlic bread with the pulling apart the cheese. Yeah. Do we need the breath's consent

781
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:15,520
to post it? She said yes. If the reading is about your job, this card describes a partnership

782
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:22,320
that benefits both people. You inspire one another and enjoy working together. It can also represent

783
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:28,320
cooperation and creative collaboration in your workplace like maybe you're in the industry.

784
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,520
In a reading about love, the two upright symbolizes a happy relationship that's developing smoothly.

785
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:42,640
You understand each other's needs and bring out the best in one another. This card shows harmony,

786
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:50,960
balance and mutual respect between two parties. Yeah. Just like I said, that's just like how it should be

787
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:58,880
if you're going to be. Yeah. Just everything that's missing from. Yeah. I love it. We just did it again

788
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:05,520
where I don't finish a sentence and I just say it's like yeah and then you finish what my thought

789
00:53:05,520 --> 00:53:11,280
for me. Oh yeah, we both do that to each other. We finish each other's sandwiches all the time.

790
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,640
I noticed it a lot lately where I'm just like and you know like yeah and the thing and I don't like say

791
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:21,920
anything but I just expect everyone to know what I'm talking about. Obviously you know the guy

792
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:29,280
at the place with the thing. It's just it's something I do. I'm I apologize. Yeah. I don't know if that's

793
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:39,040
like uniquely female thing and uniquely American thing. I right. I don't know. Not really sure. I don't

794
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:42,880
know. You guys get me. I feel like you guys get me. So you just probably know what I'm saying.

795
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:48,240
Finish her sandwiches. See, actually don't that's mine. Yeah. I was going to say I knew that was

796
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:54,560
going to get you. I walked the other half of that leader. She is obsessed with my name on it.

797
00:53:54,560 --> 00:54:04,480
I am surrounded by a bunch of sandwich loving weirdos. You really are. Yeah. Was there any extras or

798
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:12,880
you know there is it's really just an extension of like and we've read it so many times too. Yeah.

799
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:19,600
Raising glasses in a toast recalls the ancient traditions of offering sacred libations

800
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:28,320
to the goddesses and gods in hopes of receiving favors from them. The Greek god Dionysus and his

801
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:35,280
Roman counterpart, Bacchus are perhaps the best known wine drinking day it is. Yeah. That's my

802
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:45,040
kind of gal. But mythology also raises its glass to the Zulu fertility goddess and we decidedly

803
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:51,920
camp pronounced. Yes. I'm not going to try because Google it someday. Yeah. I want to if I'm

804
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,480
going to say it, I would like to have the pronunciation key because I it I feel like it's

805
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:03,520
intensitive to just blah blah blah. Yeah. Just fumble through especially goddess like fuck. Yeah.

806
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,640
Fertility goddess. She's going to fuck your life up. I know. Let's not be pissing her off. Okay.

807
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:19,520
The Samarion beer goddess Nincasi the African party girl goddess Yasegi and succulist the Celtic god

808
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:27,520
of alcoholic drinks. So Irish. That takes me back to last night. Oh yeah. Working on our special

809
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:37,280
super secret fun project for hopefully soonish. We'll see. Yeah. I feel like we set it on our last

810
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:43,440
episode. Did we? Did we actually say what we were doing? Yeah. We said it was a weed podcast. We

811
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:50,400
did. Yeah. My god. Are you so we're recording the weed podcast now? Oh. Or we said we're just starting

812
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:55,200
a new podcast. I don't know if we said. I don't think we said. Yeah. Oops. Now you know. Oops. All

813
00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:02,640
berries. Oops. All weed. Yeah. Oops. All weed. Oh, all berries. That's another hint. What's to come?

814
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:09,680
Little Easter egg there. Oh my goodness. I love this for us. But you know what I love more. What?

815
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:18,400
Obviously the garlic cheesy polar bread. The garlic bread. Polar bread. It's a pitchfork crowd.

816
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:24,640
Oh boy. Remember that one time I was trying to think of an angry mob and I said pitchfork crowd

817
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:30,320
and Caitlin didn't even correct me. It just kept going. I think I just knew what you meant. And I was

818
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:36,480
like I feel like everybody else. Well, I didn't even think to question it. Pitchfork crowd. So

819
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:43,360
sometimes I don't know. I feel like if it makes a difference or like I flag it as something like

820
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:49,280
oh no, you're no like you're just like having like a it's like a tongue twister thing or you're

821
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:54,240
just like having a brain fart. I'm like okay, yeah, I'm going to step in. But like if it made sense

822
00:56:54,240 --> 00:57:02,480
in my head like all better off. And I was like yes, this makes sense. I'm with you. I would never

823
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:08,400
correct you in that situation unless I feel like it. You know what I mean? I don't want to just be a dick.

824
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:14,880
And I mean, please, please be a dick to me. I love dicks. We talked about it earlier.

825
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,640
It's true. I have them all over my mat. I know you're dick mat.

826
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:27,200
Well, I just want to say I support porn if you're paying people who are in a

827
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:33,120
consensual loving committed relationship to watch it and not just watching it for free on the internet.

828
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:41,600
What that makes it sound like you support it like only if the people in the porn are like

829
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:48,400
in a relationship. Oh, oh, I just mean like if it's consensual and yeah, I do like to watch a loving

830
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:53,760
relationship, you know, I just mean I just mean like at first I thought you were saying like,

831
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:59,280
oh, only people in a relationship should make porn. I didn't mean that. I didn't. I was just thinking

832
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:05,280
like personally, that's what I like to watch. But yeah, I was like, you said the dick and I feel like

833
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:11,760
people might get confused by that. Like, does she think everyone in porn is like they're all together?

834
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:17,520
They're all together. They're all together. No, no, no, I did not mean that. Thank you. Yes, please

835
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:23,360
correct. Well, that might have been my wires crossing. But yeah, definitely like pay people for

836
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:29,600
the work that they do. And that way it kind of ensures that it is consensual. It's

837
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:35,040
regulated. It's like another step of like helping to ensure that it's not going to completely

838
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:40,880
ensure it. I'm sure. But no, because people are trying. Yeah. But if you do like only fans where you

839
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:46,880
go straight to their page and, you know, subscribe, it's more likely to be hopefully that's a

840
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:56,480
add that layer of yeah. And I know, I know I've heard of like websites or things like sources you can

841
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:01,840
go that will give you like a list of websites of like ethical porn too. I did. I think I saw it on

842
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:06,880
another documentary. I was watching. I don't. I think yeah, I don't know which one it was. I watched

843
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:13,600
so many fucking sex documentaries and shows. But yeah, yeah, I think it was one that was specifically

844
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:24,480
related to the porn industry like in a consensual capacity. But also they touched on how the lines

845
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:34,240
can be blurred between totally consensual, maybe not always the most ethical, but pornography in

846
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:40,320
the way that we all think of it where no one is, you know, in theory being harmed versus

847
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:49,040
sex trafficking. And they taught it, you know, I feel like unfortunately there's there can be some

848
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:57,520
there's blurring of lines. I'm like, no, it's not blurry. It's not blurry. It's not. Yeah. Yeah.

849
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,120
Yeah. But just, you know, you have to have an awareness around it to be able to

850
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:08,400
differentiate something. Yeah. That's a good. Yeah. So you're welcome. Yeah. If we can actually maybe we

851
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:15,760
can track down a link. Oh yeah. To provide people so that if they're looking for, you know, like resources.

852
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:21,360
Yeah. Just something that allows you to kind of like vet what you're looking at. Yeah. So you don't

853
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:27,280
accidentally stumble upon some revenge porn that you just, I mean, you don't know. You can never

854
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:33,360
know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it's been a pretty pervasive problem actually on porn hubs.

855
01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:41,840
So that's sad too, because it's like they're real people. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a lot of yuck.

856
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:48,720
Or are you going to say it's sad for some other read? Did I? Oh, no, it's just sad. Like all around.

857
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:54,960
I don't know. Yeah. Because like so many people go to like the free resource, especially kids. Oh my

858
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:00,000
God, because kids can't pay for it. Right. So they're just going to Google online and yeah,

859
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:05,840
then they end up seeing the worst of it. Yeah. I mean, unless you are, you know, like a certain somebody

860
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:11,120
that we just talked about recently who just steeled, who just stole somebody else's credit card.

861
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:18,080
I'll say who would, who would steal and I tripped over it. It was really like that was, that was

862
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:24,240
my best. It was my best moment today. It was incredible. If you're going to be like somebody who,

863
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:31,040
and we talked about pretty recently, who stole people's credit cards and right. Colton. Yeah. Colton.

864
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:36,960
Colton Harris. More. I only know that because I just edited it. Not that long ago.

865
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:46,800
Yeah. Fresh in your mind. So fresh. So fresh. So fresh and so barefoot clean. Oh boy. Well,

866
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:52,080
should we do that? I think we should. Yeah, let's do it. I think we did a good job. And by that

867
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,800
thing, I mean, the girl like cheesy bread cannot be more clear about that. Goodbye. We're going to go

868
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:05,760
to your okay, let's go. Just like the row off our head. Let's go. Pay for you. 20 minutes. Let's go.

869
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:17,520
Oh man. Have a creepy ass day. See you next Tuesday. I'm not sure like an actual creep who's like

870
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:24,320
actually sharing people's naked bodies without their permission. Yeah. Or unless I eat so much

871
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:29,200
garlic bread that I literally explode because then I might need more than a week. Don't worry,

872
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:36,480
everyone. I will share pictures of her exploding for journalistic purposes. That makes me think

873
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:42,960
about garlic cheesy pull apart bread as a war crime. And now I'm saying it's not it's never a war crime.

874
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Garlic cheesy bread and bread can never be a war crime. Never could be. Did you have anything else

875
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:55,520
funny to say? No, never funny. Dude, that's going to be the end of the show. Did you have anything

876
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:01,760
else funny to say? No, I'm never funny. Yeah, honestly, that is kind of stupid.

877
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,000
(laughs) pnwhauntsandhomicides.com