Portland’s Haunting Music Hall - The Crystal Ballroom

0:01 One night, a staff member was cleaning up after the place was closed when they saw a couple doing the jitterbug on the dance floor. But then before he can go over and be like, hey, we're closed, Like you gotta go. You gotta got no jitterbugging on this dance floor tonight. That's enough of the jitterbug, they disappeared. Can you imagine if that was like their first dance and they met that night and then we're together forever and ever, and their souls were always just doing the jitterbug on the night this mint, Oh, that's giving me such chills. Hi Caitlin, Hi Cassie. Hi creepy people, Holly, if you're new here to a creepy little corner of the world.

0:48 This is PNW Hanson Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things creepy, spooking, weird in the Pacific Northwest. That's what I've heard. We also do a Tiro reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic. And we also call the Pacific Northwest the PNW. If you're nasty, yes, Cassie insists on it. I just really want people to know what the PNW means in our name. Yeah, So I don't know if you guys remember we did an episode on the mcmhennimu's Crystal Hotel with our friends Shay and Jody from Rainy Day Rabbit Holes. Yeah you remember, you remember? I remember, And the Crystal Hotel we kind of talked about, has like a sister property, which is the Crystal Ballroom, which is the concert venue in downtown Portland in the same area. It's like right across the street, basically like across the street, down the block a little bit, yeah, from the Crystal Hotel. And I'm going to tell you about that because it's only natural since we just talked about the Crystal Hotel to go ahead and just talk about the Crystal Ballroom. Tell me, Shay talked a little bit about some of the things and like her experiences or her mom's experiences at the Crystal Ballroom even too.

2:13 So yeah, I might insert because I think I cut those out of the episode, so I might like insert those in here and you might just you know, get a little taste of Rainy Day Rabbit Holes again. Ooh, I love that taste. The rainbow, the rainbow Hole. Oh well, hey, it's Pride month Man. Yeah. Yeah, taste the Rainbow rabbit Hole. Ooo. Okay, So we talked about in the Crystal Hotel episode that all of the artwork from there was inspired by performances at the Crystal Ballroom. Yeah. Do you know? You probably don't. I don't know why I'm asking you this, but do you know what their slogan is at the Crystal Ballroom?

2:56 Oh God, I feel like I should. It's on the website and everything. It is on any night, anything can happen. Oh wow, which is like whoa? I mean? Oh, it is Portland keeping it weird. If you're nasty, if you're creepy, weird and nasty, you might be welcome at the Crystal Ballroom. You'd have to be. Yeah. So I've never actually been into the Crystal Ballroom. I can't remember if you said that, if you had or not, Yes, yeah, okay, Yeah, that's it's blasphemy. It's it's a problem that we are we are going to work diligently on correcting.

3:41 We will fix this. We wow. So but I can't really speak to this, but I read that it is quite an inspiring place with its vaulted ceilings, grand chandelier and de cour and of course the famous dance floor, which we'll talk about later. So no, no spoiler yet. Lots of thoughts and feelings. It looks very much like you would expect any mcmanimon's location to look like. It's very you know, eccentric, and but the vaulted ceilings, that's for sure, Like that's it's so cool in that type of a venue to go and see a live show. It's a beautiful venue. It's like obviously kind of also, you.

4:26 Know, like I said, eccentric, eccentric and historic histor It was built in nineteen fourteen as Cotillion Hall what here de Wertantes were to be formally introduced into the public for male consumption. Yeah, oh my goodness, I wrote, like a gag. But yeah, so we all kind of know what happens that. Yeah, I mean maybe I guess to me, I don't think of that being something that it's like a part of the lived experience of anyone outside of like the South. Yeah, I thought, I guess I'm learning something new that Katillion was part of history even here.

5:14 In Portland, yep, which I didn't I didn't really know either. Okay, it kind of like reminds me too. I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but like how we have the Rose Parade and there's always like isn't there always like a princess or something of like the Rose Parade or. Yeah, I don't know specific to like any parade if they're like related, but like you. Can see where it's like it like the pageantry. Yeah, yeah, and you know, and yeah, I don't know, they there could be a little bit of a connection there. Interesting, I don't know. Anyway, it was a pretty profitable business until the nineteen twenties when the owner Montrose Wringler, cut the cotillion crap and started playing jazz music. Do you have a jazz cigarette? They probably did have jazz cigarettes.

6:08 And I don't think people liked it much. We'll get into. It, okay, Yeah, I mean you know that was sort of a subversive element at that point. Yeah, And I've heard mentions of like back in this time when they started dance halls, it was kind of like illegal to like touch your partner basically, like you had to had to be like, you know, leave room for Jesus rules. Oh so when they started playing jazz and like you know, dancing close and yeah, maybe hitting some sick some slow jam. Yes, people people weren't. Some people weren't a fan of it. Oh man, what is it they say about, like, uh, I can't remember exactly how it goes, but the song, you know, bump and grind, Like.

6:57 Yes, that's what it is. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I was like, I can't remember how it goes. All I remember is the bump and grind part. Of course, that's all you remember is a bump and grind part. Well, I mean arguably that's the memorable part. I'm just saying. So some people in Portland, believe it or not, believe that the dance halls were evil them devil worshipers in those in those dance halls. They wanted them banned from Portland altogether. And people did actually get together to get wringlers dance all shut down. Oh my god, I know, what is this? The town and Footlooths kind of yeah, this is kind of the town in.

7:41 Footloose, I mean like many many years prior to I think when that story takes place, but still still still. But one of these people was named Lola Baldwin. I know, we have another Lola we're going to talk about. Do you know Lola Baldwin. I mean only in the sense that I know that there's Ah, yes, you kind of spoiled it. But we'll let you get away with it, okay, or you can just cut it out. Oh that's true. Yeah, maybe we'll see how it works. Or I'll let you I'll let you say that at the end. Maybe I'll oh, there you go, because you didn't. I didn't know about it until I did this research. I learned a lot about Lola actually from a presentation by her grandchildren and it was put on by the historian for mcminimons. Wow.

8:35 So they videoed this and they put it on YouTube. So I got to watch it. And I'm gonna say, Lola's grandkids they might be like, you know, in their nineties, but they are freaking adorable. Oh they are so cute. And I could just like listen to them talk about their lives all day like they love that. It was so cute. They've got they've got all the good story. They do have a lot of good stories, and I didn't include like nearly half of it, you know, like wow. So if anyone's interested in watching the video obviously, I'll link it for you, but they do, I might do. Maybe I'll do patroon bonus on Lola because there is a ton of interesting information about her. But we're going to get into a little bit about her right now, love it? Do it? So many described her, including her grandchildren, as a stern woman. Yeah, a well meaning, but a stern woman. Yeah. And they showed pictures of her and she was very stern. Did she look like the farmer's wife in the Pitchfork photo? Yes, like literally yes, so intense, very intense. Yeah. Yeah. And they did show a picture of her at the very end, a picture of her smiling, and I was like, oh, okay, so she does have it in her but for the most yeah, just you know, it's like a resting face, yes, arresting stern face. Yeah.

10:06 We won't call her a bee, we won't disuspect her. Well, I don't know. Maybe I want to hear more before I decide, right, it's called it might be complicated emotions about this, So okay, Lola was a fan of things like prohibition. Obviously I knew. If I knew it, I can tell by the sternness of her face, and well, that's what I pictured. It is like the pictures of the women in all of the like prohibition like related like articles and stuff we've I mean, we've talked about it before and I was like, for. Shame, yep, yep, she was one of them. But she was involved in a lot of organizations helping women and girls, so she was very passionate about that. And she was concerned about vulnerable young women being preyed upon in the dance halls. Sure, and that's fair, it's fair. Yeah, sure that it needed to go to the you know, lengths of shutting places down. Yeah.

11:06 Yeah, I think that goes back to, like, instead of policing what women wear, maybe we raise boys and men in a way that doesn't make women feel fearful. Right to walk the street? Right, Yeah you think. I don't know, maybe in the future. I feel like even now, even now, pretty novel idea. Yeah, it's pretty out there. And she thought, and I'm sure a lot of other people, well I don't need to Like a lot of other people also thought that, especially in these places playing the evil jazz music, that this is where it was happening. It wasn't going to be happening in a place, you know, playing like classical music or like country music or something was what they thought.

12:00 I'm sure this doesn't really need to be said, but there was also a lot of racism behind that, right. It wasn't just you know, protecting young women. There was a lot of racism because obviously, you know, jazz music is black music, and they were doing anything they could to shut anything like that down. So, right, but that was the reasons that Lola gave. Yeah, well, of course, you know, the first concern should always be protecting the purity of wat women. Fat warmen. Yeah, I'm sure they probably didn't care what was happening if it wasn't white women like disappearing, because there were women disappearing at this time too, So you don't say, yeah, almost like.

12:48 It's been happening for all of time, since the beginning of time. Yeah. In nineteen oh eight, Lola was presented with badge number thirty three, not only as the first policewoman for the PPD or the Portland Police Department, but she was the first policewoman in the whole last country. Oh okay, I mean good for her. Good for her. I had no idea like, yeah, we hire the first policewoman. I mean, I'm not surprised. I think that the first doctor and lawyer license was also in the Pacific Northwest.

13:32 I love that we're so impressive over here, you guys. I mean, listen before we go to nor Horn too much. Yes, yeh, yes, and no, we hire the women as policemen who shut down the jazz dance halls. That's what we did because racism and misogyny, you know, like ahead of our time in some respects. And then you know, and Lola was the one who got Wrigular's dance hall shut down. She was specifically the person who was like really in on that place. And I don't know if that's why she like became a police woman or shut down like that.

14:20 She's like, I gotta get the badge and then I'll get the place shut down. Yeah, could be that's just the hat rack. She was right, that's right. But Wrangler the old rascal refused to be stopped and he moved his dance hall two both. I'm on a boat, I know, and I was like, wait, was this the inspo for the dance floor. We'll get there, we'll get there, we'll get there. Oh my god. But Lola refused to relent as well, and she also shut his dance boat down. The She was like, no, you're swimming out into the middle of the lake to go shut down their dance party. I think it's a light.

15:07 I think she like went through and like looked at all like the laws and like found one where she could like point it out and be like, no, you can't have a dance hall boat. Oh my god, there it's it's it's on the water. Okay, Like can we just pretend like international laws because water? But those young women, she had to protect them. She just like go on without protecting those young women and shutting down the dance boats. Okay, I mean you chase them off from the first venue and they're like, you know what, that sucks, but dance boat and they they run over there to the dance boat, and then she's following them like what be hell, we we're literally running away from you, Lula La Lula.

15:57 Oh. I like to think she had a good heart, but her grand children that she did. Yeah, I'm sure she did. But you know, some things can be true. You could be a real bummer and still have a good heart. A real buzz kill Lola was, but yeah, well we'll get her back, don't worry. Also, in this presentation, the kids they said, as kids they lived on a houseboat and they would see a double decker dance barge go by. So it was like this was like an actual thing, people dancing on boats. And I think it's still I think it still is slightly a thing.

16:39 Well yeah, I mean like the Portland Spirit they do like boat tours and like dinner cruises and things. So yeah, I mean I would imagine. Yeah, but just like the a double decker dance barge just sounded so cool, like yeah, in the in the I don't know if it was like the thirties or the forties when they when the kids saw that, but I love that. I'm here for it either way. Yeah, I might get seasick, but you know we'll see no, no, no. See. The thing is is that like if you if you dance, then it like counteracts the motion sickness. Oh, if you drink, it counteracts the motion sickness. I mean, couldn't hurt, right, I'm spinning one way, the boats spin in the other just sequels out. I mean yeah, at some point you just break even since poor Montrose Wringler kept getting his shit shut down. He had to sell the ballroom, unfortunately to a man named Dad Watson. And Dad isn't quote, so I assume that's his nickname. So I'm like, oh, diddy, dirty, yeah, yeah, But Dad Watson he played country music at the dance hall until his death in the late nineteen thirties, so he wasn't thirty too, lad,

18:11 Poor daddy. He just wanted to play country music. And there's like a bajillion places where people did do that back then, but Jillian places where people do that now. There's lots of venues for all different types of music. Like everybody just needs to take so many seats and chill pills. I know. I think Daddy was just scared of Lola shutting his shit down, so he's like, fine, we'll play country. It's country, okay, Hey, calm down, Lola, nothing to see here. Yeah, yeah, it's all white people. Don't worry about it. Don't worry. The ballroom was abandoned until Ralph Ferrier restored the building, making it come alive again with square dancing and more of that sweet sweet country music. Oh for God's so for a good chunk of time, it was it was just country music, just a lot of cowboy boots and poodle skirts. Yeah, got square dancing. I just if people like it, that's fine. I just I don't. I don't really want any part in that. Is square dancing? Like, is line dancing similar to it? Because that's what I think of when I think of like newer country bars and stuff.

19:28 Yeah, I mean square dancing is definitely older, I think than line dancing, but yeah, it is kind of similar in that, like it's like these very specific, like kind of a choreographed style of like dancing. And no touch in your partner's body. Well, line dancing, I don't know, not days. Yeah, maybe line dancing, but not not the square dancing. Yeah, square dancing is like very like you're moving independent of your partner. More it's for square, yeah, I mean if it's in the name. But then it comes the sixties, you guys, and all of a sudden, people aren't really interested in country music so much anymore. Thanks to the new popular genres, the Crystal Ballroom started to see performers like Tina Turner, James Brown, and Marvin Gay. I could hear it now, hold on, we're having a silent minute. To dance in our heads to the music of the Crystal ball Room in the sixties, continuing to grow towards the psychedelic seventies.

20:34 Performers would include the Electric Prunes, Blue Cheer, and the Grateful Dead, which we mentioned in the in the Crystal Well. Yeah, but I've never heard of the Electric Prunes or Blue Cheer obviously. You know, I'm not a huge seventies like music less. I mean, there was a lot, a lot, a lot a lot of great. Music from the seventies. I think those are some choices. Yeah, in terms of like that's the sampling of the nineteen seventies, I'm like, Okay, I'm thinking, like, you know, the the Eagles, I feel like at that point, like the Stones were huge. Maybe they didn't come to the Crystal Ballroom.

21:17 Maybe maybe not because they were probably too big for a any like that. Maybe maybe that's all it is. But like Steve Miller band, the Omen Brothers, I mean, you know, anyways, we could be here all day. But I'm just saying like, and I definitely just pulled it from the article out the specific when I was reading about this section, and I didn't like, go back and look at the you know in seventies performance history of the Crystal Ballroom. I guess I could have. I mean, we can get into that at another time. Yeah, maybe in the bonus. Yeah, I mean for me and for science. I feel like maybe maybe we do that late. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Caitlin, we'll look into that for me.

21:59 But do you remember that growth I talked about. They were growing towards those psychedelic seventies, but that growth would soon be cut short, No, due to worries of psychedelic music. Brain fry. All right, I was gonna say, are they they're growing? Huh? What are they growing? They were? They were growing, they were growing, they were growing with the times. And then all of a sudden they did what they did to the jazz music and they called it evil Boo. So just the same some more, the same old story, but just a different music genre. After that, the ballroom was pretty much abandoned and people would break in and use it as a questionable hangout spot. Oh you could probably imagine. Yeah, I guess it was also used as an art studio and held private parties at like certain times.

22:54 Oh that sounds really cool. Yeah, I think so too. Like the private party to have that in like a huge abandoned building, Oh yeah, yeah, or an artsud like totally cool. And I don't know if this was like before or after people were breaking in to do various things. Not the timeline, but yeah, buildings just go through so many life cycles when they've been around this long, and especially like in a bigger I mean, Portland is a small city, like when you look at you know, bigger cities like it, even Seattle, you know. I mean we're no Chicago, We're no New York, that's for sure, but like in cities like that, you know that like the history and all of the Yeah, it's it's wild.

23:47 To think about. Yeah. Well, speaking of the history, it has been on the National Register of Historic Places since nineteen seventy nine, so I feel like that was kind of the only thing that was keeping it around during the times it was abandoned. Oh I would think so. Yeah, And they like they had several failed restoration attempts to I don't know like who in that time was trying to rebuild it, but they just it nothing was working, nothing was sticking. Yeah, until the mcminnimon's brothers took over the ballroom, they renovated they added a bar, restaurant, brewery, and a new sprung dance floor. They actually literally called it a sprung dance floor, and I was.

24:34 Like, oh baby, I mean honestly accurate though, Like that's an accurate characterization. It is. And the Crystal Ballroom reopened in nineteen ninety seven. So it's like this like kind of crazy like gap in its history, like in a period of flux. Yeah, and who knows, you know, like this is a fair normal podcast. What kind of like huh things or left over from that time? What kind of energy? Hey, I've I've talked about venues too. Maybe it's a true crime. It could be, it could be is it episode? Like is it did something happen there? I don't know.

25:19 I mean, any venue that's been around that long, I feel like something has to have happened. Probably, But for right this second, we're going to get into that dance floor that I keep hinting about, because it's pretty cool. It is something. It is something. Yes, it is a floating dance floor, and it is meant to absorb the shock of people's feet as they dance. And from what I read, it sounds like they put like foam on the bottom of like the wood planks to make it so it's like squishy floating. It's very springy, but it reduces the chances of injury during torking. Huh, that's the purpose. Still, I'm gonna say not not my favorite.

26:07 I don't get down low no, no, because it's too squishy, too squishy, but I feel like you don't feel like you've got like a solid base. Well that was the thought anyway, is that it would kind of like you know, maybe keep you from getting shin splints or something. Yeah, they were very concerned about the future tour. Yes, floating floors were actually I've heard were pretty popular, but I don't know in the Pacific Northwest how popular they were. I mean, I can't think of anywhere else where like you can go and actually walk around on one anywhere else. Not anymore, because this is that's when the last one's left, like in the world. So yeah, in the world, in the well, in the country, I think in the country.

26:54 I don't know about the world, but definitely here in the United States, it's like one of the last ones. Who Yeah, and people say it's like dancing on clouds, which is a very Portland thing to say. It's kind of more like dancing on jello with like pantyhose strewn. Oh on it it's I want solid. I don't. To me, I don't. I don't really get I don't get like a I don't get seasick, like if I go on like a boat or like a ferry, I don't have that. I do get carsick still, like it could happen to me today to say, but that's the closest thing that I can think of to like, it feels like how people describe like being seasick.

27:43 Oh yeah, yeah, it weirds me out. Yeah. We I remember chatting with Shay about it, and she really enjoyed it, from what I remember her saying. And then we were like ooh, because I'm really sensitive emotion too, and like I can't even like step on a dock or I'll be I go like so sick. It feels like I'm walking through someone's ancient attic. And I feel like when we went to the van Resa Castle and we were up in the attic and it was all floaty feeling. It's like squishy, yeah, and it feels like, oh God, is that like is that a board that like it's is. That a board or quicksand what is that? Yeah, I don't like it.

28:24 I don't want to feel like that the whole time I'm at a concert. It because I really feel like I'm like, I can't tell if I'm about to like my foot's gonna go through. I know it's not. Because it's it like it's it doesn't seem unsafe, but my brain says. Yeah, it's like a I feel like it's like a lizard brain reaction to like your body feeling like it's in danger even though your mind is like you, dude, you're fine. Yes, one thousand percent. I just like, no matter how many times I tell myself, it's like it's kind of like like a little tiny trampoline, and. I'm just like, that is the stupidest thing.

29:05 I'm like, I can't even trick my own brain into believing that, but but. I would try it. I want to walk on it and to see what it's like. Cool, it's cool. I can do it in short bouts. I have to go like towards the edges, because there are parts of the venue where you can feel it less and like the outer edges. Like then that gives me like a little breather. That makes sense. Yeah. H When you're like in the middle, it's like, oh and everyone's like moving around you too. Oh wow, Oh we're getting motions like it's just thinking about it. It's like being on a seesaw kind of in a way. It's it's freaky. It's really cool. I love it.

29:49 It's very exciting because it sounds like it's a kind of a rare thing to be able to experience. Now. I feel like kind of a dick for going on and on about how I'm I kind of like, but you want, you know, we want creepy people to be warned if they're gonna go, Like if you're really sensitive, like just know what you're stepping on to so you don't feel like maybe you don't know what's happening if you didn't read about the place. I don't know if they have signs up telling you it's a floating dance floor or not. I don't think so. I don't think i've ever seen anything about that. I remember the first time that I went to a show there, and I was like when I made when I made my way to the middle, like I had no context for that, and I was like, what is I was. I was genuinely a little bit terrified for a second.

30:40 We're just here to provide context for your future endeavors, y'all. Yeah, and maybe also process my trauma. Yeah a little bit. Oh, but that's why I was wondering kind of like if the like dance boat idea kind of inspired the dance yeah, honestly. Yeah. Well and it's funny because I'd forgotten even that you said that, but like describing it as like this is how people say it like feels to like be seasick, and I'm like, yeah, I don't think I've ever actually been seasick, but this is like that you can imagine like the closest comparison for me.

31:20 So if you're ever wanting to know what it's like to be seasick and you just can't experience it, go to the floating dance floor at the Crystal Ballroom in Portland, Oregon. I know, not a great not exactly an e that sponsored Well, maybe this will help. The Crystal Ballroom now holds up to eight hundred and fifty people sitting and fifteen hundred standing, which I feel like is kind of like it's not that big of a place. But I guess it kind of is. Yeah, I mean, so I think of it. It's one of several venues in Portland where you're like, that's kind of small, right, like compared to like if you think about like a Modus Center something on that scale.

32:04 It's Acoma Dome smaller than those, Yeah, but. Like compare it to like the scale of like you know, an average like wedding venue which may host Most of them are like maybe two hundred two fifty max. So it's like it puts it into perspective not like stadium, yeah, but. Like bigger than a wedding venue, an average one. Anyway, Caitlin would know she looked at them all I did quite literally. Yeah. Well, one thing that's really cool for me is my mom is an Oregonian and when she she moved to Portland when she turned eighteen, and she had a little apartment in the Montgomery District and she worked at Montgomery Wards.

32:50 Oh cute and yeah, and I've been by her apartment building and it's one of those old brick like two story buildings, you know, that's so cute, And my gosh, she told me. Shay, I think our moms lived in the same building in Montgomery District. Dude, well, next time we come out, let's do a field trip. Let's go out there and see if it's the same building. But she we need in the like early sixties. Oh okay, No, they maybe lived in the same building, but maybe not at the same time. Yeah, not at the same time. So uh. But she told me she used to go to the Crystal Ballroom to go dancing all the time because they would have these the concerts were cheap, and they would do dances there all the time. So I've been there to dance for eighties nights, like more times than I can name. I love it so much. Their floating dance floor is amazing. But it's very cool being in there and being like my mom was dancing in the same exact place in the nineteen sixties. Oh, that is cool.

33:54 She used to take the bus to the Lloyd Center during the time that Jerry Brutos was active, and I I'm always like, Mom, you could have been a victim. You could have never been here. Anyways, that's that's my mom in Portland. That's so cool. I mean, besides the killer part. Yeah right, she didn't get killed, so it's fine. Yeah, Well, you know, you win some, you lose some, right, she won that one. Yeah, I have to say, I'm not a fan of the floating dance floor and oh you know. Like the floating dance floor. Oh, I'd like it. I mean it's not like it's bouncing like always dancing. It feels like a little bit floaty. No, like if you have vertigo, it's risky. Sure, okay, okay, I could see that. Yeah, but I got a blast there. And then it was always because they do the eighties dance attack like they do the eighties video Dance Attack, and they do a nineties night too, and I've been to both, of course multiple times both and then one time so for my fortieth birthday, I was like, I want to go to Portland. I want to go to eighties night.

35:00 But the only eighties night that was happening that weekend was the Prince Tribute night, so it was in the ballroom itself. So I love the Prince, but there is a limit of how much Prince you can dance to in a single night, because the danceable songs are you know, like. Eighties, not all of them. Yeah, it's not all of them, Like you're not gonna dance the rest of them. You know, you do something else, but I. Won't do karaoke, but she will sing for our podcast. But I was drunk enough that that did not matter. And by the end of the night, my friend had me convinced that we were gonna go get matching Prince tattoos.

35:44 And then I went to the back to the hotel room. Oh thank god, you didn't get that's good, Thank goodness. Happy fortieth to me, who it was not that long ago. I have so much to look forward to. I'm so excited. I know, Hey, we could all still do this for your fortieth. Yeah, we will be there. I will. We have an opportunity. I will talk you into a matching Prince tattoo that I will not get. It's the benefit of having older friends. I'm calling you your plan on my fortieth first. Absolutely, we're there. The Crystal Ballroom now sees many different genres of performances, probably all of the genres at this point. Like, I don't think they're they're what's that word, they're discriminating at all on genres? Yeah, absolutely no.

36:33 And honestly, when you look at the different like artists and the different bands that are highlighted. Yeah, the selection for the hotel rooms. So at the Crystal Hotel, it's such a wide selection of like different styles, it. Kind of ruins the gamut, I think. Yeah. Yeah, And as far as I know, no one's trying to shut it down. So everyone knock on your wood, knock on your floating dance floor wood gently, gently, don't want to get sick. Now. So there's a couple of places, like I talked about them having a bar, and yeah, they had a brewery, a couple of so we're going to talk about some of those places. And one of them is Wringler's Pub, which is defined by a purple awning on the ground floor of the Crystal Ballroom building. And does the name Wringler sound familiar to you at all? WHOA, So we just talked about him. It was named after Montrose Wringler, and it might see it kind of is he was the original owner of the building.

37:46 Yeah, I think that's really cool. And they do that, I feel like in so many subtle ways too. They do. And we talked about a couple of those things with the Crystal Hotel too. So if Wrangler sound it's kind of familiar to we talked about the Wringler's Annex, which is just like a little like offshoot of the Wrangler's Bar kind of. That's in that Ringlers features classic American fair in a pub where pinball, shuffle board, and pool tables. Beckon, I love me some shuffle board. I have seen people play it. I'm not sure if I've actually played it. I think we kind of talked about this earlier. You're so so appalled that I've never shuffle boarded. Okay, well, so here's the thing. I was very very surprised.

38:37 But it was the sharp intake in the gas that I listen, I'm not really meant. To be here. I might be an actual ghost because I so frequently am like choking on my own spit. Yeah, it's tripping over my own feet. Honestly, it's it's really a actious. It is like how do I even deal with you? Like, I don't know, I don't know. It's like I'm auditioning to be like the best friend in a rom com or something like oh oh oh, so. Am i am the star of the rom com? Where and where is my rom calmness than Caitlin? I don't know? Okay, where's my rom com. Kaitlyn, My life is just a sad calm? Is a sad calm? You're the You're the sidekick in a sad com movie. What is that the sad comedy comedy? Anyway? Oh my god, I don't even know.

39:47 Oh you're talking about shuffle board, And this is interesting because I'm like, I can't remember if I've actually played it or if I've just seen people playing it on TV. And we literally were talking about the earlier about the Renaissance Fair, where I was like, I don't know if I've actually red into a Renaissance Fair or if I've just heard enough people talk about it and like seeing one on TV. Yeah, no, I have been to one, and I specifically went to the one that you were talking about. And now I'm like, do I do a lot of stuff? Because I don't think so. I feel like I never leave my house and it's completely intentional. You do stuff I occasionally, You go to the Renaissance Fair, you play shuffle board, and even to the crystal ballroom. Those are three things I don't think I've ever done. I mean, honestly, I'm shocked. I'm miss I'm you don't even seem shocked.

40:36 So I was gonna say, I'm as shocked as you are, but I'm I'm you're not matching my You're you're not matching my freak. Oh speaking of your shirt, though we weren't really talking about your shirt, but I just remembered mad Hustle, and I was like, it kind of reminded me of some of the themes in the episode with Wrangler having the mad hustle he was trying to get out on the boat when he couldn't do his stance for in the hall, and then Lola having the mad hustle about getting everyone shut down. I mean, boo oh, Okay, we have some more stuff to talk about. What was originally the Crystal Ballroom's dance rehearsal studio between the Ballroom and Wringler's Pub is a six barrel brewery established in nineteen ninety seven, which I think is when I said they opened it general, so it opened along with the new mcminnimon's Crystal Ballroom. They craft seasonal and unique beers as well as mcminnimon's favorites, like the usual ruby hammerhead.

41:41 I think is one of their hammerheads. I'm not totally sure. I think they have branched out into brewing other types of spirits as well. I'm not sure there from what I read they do. As far as I I know, they do some barrel aged beers and the barrels they use come from the Edgefield Distillery. So in case anyone doesn't know, is another mcminimon's popular Mcminimon's property who also does Like they do concerts too, Yeah, the Edgefield. Yeah, yeah, that's arguably probably the biggest of I think the properties. And I mean they have a hotel, They've got kind of like a little spa situations.

42:32 Is that where we went for the that concert we went to? Who was that? Michigan on Kelly? Was that there? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah it was. I was like, I feel like we've been there together, but I couldn't quite place it. Yeah, I'd never been there before. That was my first time. Yeah, and it rained the entire night. It did. Oh should we insert some of those pictures? I think I still have like video clips from that too. Loved it. I thought it was so fun, it was so pubb we had such a good time. M h. Anyway, where was I going with that? Oh? So, I don't know if they do any distilling there. I didn't see anything on it, but I wasn't really looking for that either, so well, I'm not sure.

43:13 And the only reason why I even like bring it up is because they have their own like kind of signature, like they have the umbrella, Jimmy's rose. They've got like I think it's a white rabbit, like a couple of different I want to say, wine selections they have. They have some other signature ones and so those may not be produced on their properties like where people go and stay per se, but like they they've got, they got their hands on a little bit of everything they do and it's all delicious. So we all know I started abbreviating mcminimum's m MSMs amens.

43:57 We all know mcminimons loves it's unique in historic art. They seemingly slip it in everywhere they can, little oh crevices, spracks, even really big things overhead and height, yes, everything, And they even included some of this artwork on the brewery tanks in the brewery. Yeah, obviously the brewery takes her in the brewery. Where else would they be, Cassie, I mean, I don't know, but on one of those tanks is a portrait of none other then Lola Baldwin bo So. I wonder like kind of how she feels about having her face on something that is making alcohol all of that Licka. So they did that kind of like as a little payback to Lola for you know, shutting things down.

44:48 Honestly, that just feels like she's a part of the history, and I feel like, as much as I have bowed her, I can understand. You know, at a certain point in history, there were you know, we talked about it with prohibition crimes where it you know, there was a lot of violence against women, and a lot of it stemmed from like really like raging issues with you know, alcoholism and a lot of untreated addiction and mental health issues. And you know, I think there were a lot of people that were just like, we don't know what else to do, and we don't have a lot of resources to try to fix this. Yeah, so we're just gonna like we're cutting the cord on.

45:39 The on the booze, shut it it's down, gotta go. Yeah. Yeah, but racism, I don't I'm not going to give you a pass there. Yeah, definitely some passionate people doing what they thought was the right thing to do. So yeah. But speaking of Lola again, she also as a namesake in this place, which Caitlin mentioned earlier. What is it call Lola's Room? Lola's Room, which I don't know much about, but I read it is like a sister venue for DJ events and other smaller shows. Yeah, but yeah, in like the same building though it's not. Yeah, yeah, no, it's in it is. It's in the same building, so like, I know it exists. I know I've been there. None of the snapshots in my head matchup with it. Really, we'll go there and we'll find it.

46:32 We're gonna go go say ha to Loola, Loola, Well, are you ready to talk about some ghosty things while we're here, while we're at it? Why not? Oh shit? I kind of thought maybe that wasn't gonna happen this time. Nah, it's happening. Okay, pull up your feet. It's not that bad. Okay. Some local psychics believe that the bricks of the building are holding the energy from all the excitement that has taken place there since the opening. All that dancing, all that live music, all of that shenanigans. Yeah, I mean that's like mostly probably good energy.

47:14 But it is a lot of energy, and it could be I mean, we don't know there were things happening to girls back then, so I mean there could be some of that negative energy as well. Sure not saying like that that happened so often it needed to be like shut down or was so unique in that specific space that it needed to be shut down. I think so, I think it probably did happen. It probably wasn't like an unfounded claim or anything. But yeah, so it could be very good, like upbeat, happy energy. It could not be, especially maybe the times where it was abandoned and who knows what was going on.

47:54 Yeah, I think I think there could be a lot of intense energy from that period. Yeah, and all the reservations too, like I'm sure you know. Yeah, so people experience lights flickering in certain rooms, but like not in others. Loud, unexplained noises coming from the ballroom, so like maybe when it's empty or like nothing's going on, they would hear things and then like go to see what's going on in there, and that all the noises just stop. Oh I don't I don't care for that. And because of like the vaulted ceilings, like things would just like echoes like crazy.

48:37 I'm like picturing all like this noise and then you open the door, but then like it stops, but like you're still hearing like the echoing of what's going on. I don't know if that's true. That's just like what I'm picturing in my head. Yeah. No, honestly, I could see it. I could see it. Guest report feeling like maybe fingers pulling on their clothes and feeling cold spots in certain areas, which is kind of I don't know, like how if the AC is really good in this old building. I'm not in minimums. It's not really known for its great air conditioning, so no, And I can imagine like if it's full of people, it's not going to be cold. So if you're experiencing a cold spot.

49:22 Yeah, yeah, that that feels outside of the realm of explanation, at least from my experience. Yes, it's a hot venue, and the AC, I will say, like, is not it's not working over time and a lot of warm bodies in there, and. Movement, yes, sweaty bowdies. If you are feeling a cold spot, like during a summer concert there, like. I think it's time to go I'll look about your ubers here, like, or maybe you just hang out in it, follow it around, just be in that ghost for the entire time and have your own air conditioning. Yeah, but then the ghost is going to ghost you. Ah, come on, yeah, in my sad calm then even the ghosts ghost me.

50:19 No, you just have to play hard to get. Ghosts are looking for the amusement. They're looking for something to spice up the afterlife. Yeah. People also report seeing apparitions dressed in nineteen twenties clothing, kind of like moving around, dancing around the ballroom, mingling. Yes, please, I know the twenties, Oh so good, the art deco of it all, the Great Gatsby. Ugh. I mean I know that eras don't necessarily like one hundred percent matchup, but like it's a vibe. That's what I'm thinking of too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. One night, a staff member was cleaning up after the place was closed when they saw a couple doing the jitterbug on the dance floor. But then before he can go over and be like, hey, we're closed, like you gotta go, you gotta go. No jitterbug in on this dance floor tonight.

51:16 That's enough. Of the jitterbug they disappeared, But that that feels like some of that like good energy. That's maybe, yeah, lingering, it's just some Oh my gosh. Can you imagine if that was like their first dance and they met that night and then we're together forever and ever and their souls were always just doing the jitterbug on the night that sum Oh my god. Oh that's giving me such chills. That's so see. Okay, that ghost experience, even I would be okay. Okay, jitterbug and couples, we can handle that. Yeah, Although, to be honest with you, if I were to see a couple doing the jitterbug, I'm not sure I would know that they were doing the jitterbug. I would probably be like, oh my god, like, are they okay? Are are they possessed? Like what? Because isn't the jitterbug like kind of crazy?

52:13 I'm trying to picture? Okay, Well, I'm gonna look because I know I know what it looks like, but I can't picture it. You're gonna die. This reminds me of doing like swing dance in like. Oh yeah, I love her hair, I know, Okay, maybe I wouldn't. I would probably think that they were swing dancing, though I don't know if I wouldn't know specifically it was the jitterbug, but yeah, I would know that they were dancing. Okay. For some reason, I was thinking it was like a little more crazy. Yeah, okay, we have a couple more ghosty things to talk about. I know you're trying to get out of it, but it's not happening.

52:55 Well, listen, it's just because now that we've talked about the jitterbug and possibly having to learn the routine for my recently established wedding party reunion, I just feel like I need some time to work on the choreography. You know. It's okay, So people also hear the sounds of like what sounds like a bunch of people dancing and mingling voices, kind of just like having a party, but the place is empty of guests. Okay, Well, that I don't care for as much, and that's not as cute. I think. It's still it's still cute. It's still reminds me of like good energy, good energy happening.

53:37 Yeah, that seems like good energy, but I still that would freak me out. This one will be your least favorite, okay, right, one night after a performance, a staff member heard a child's laughter, and when he went to figure out where it came from, something tugged on his shirt. No, why the tugging, I know, And I don't know if like the tugging other people are experiencing, is the same entity or not, or if it's different tugging. I'm not really sure, but I kind of feel like it might be just like the same child spirit almost uh. When he turned around when he felt this tugging, and he did see a child, but probably before he could get too confused about why a child would be there. Yeah, that late at night after a performance, it just disappeared. So there's a lot of that happening. Is seeing something only to have it just vanish in front of your eyes. Okay, listen.

54:39 The only time when a child disappearing was the one scene in like Back to the Future where the pictures they start disappearing from them. Oh yeah, ooh, but. Even that, honestly, No, also that I'm not okay with that. I was deeply trouble. Okay, none of it's okay. No child can disappear ever, no pleason, thank you. No, it's not good. I don't like it. But like unless it's a ghost child, but I feel like you would like that you need or do you need them to be visible? I do need them to be visible because I know they're still, you know, doing little child things.

55:22 Tugging on your shirt. Oh mapma, Oh my god. That is kind of sad though, Like what if she's just well I don't know if it's a girl child or a boy child, but what if they're just like wandering around kind of like tugging at people to get them to turn so he can like see if it's their parents or not. Oh oh, that's so sad. That makes it so much worer. Sorry, that didn't make it a lot worse. Yeah, Okay, I hope it's just like a little trickster kid who's just who knows what it's doing and it's causing mischief. Yes, I want to. I want to just pretend it's just some fucking punk kid, you know, yeah, just runder around being a little nuisance.

56:06 Not a sad kid searching for its parents. That's that's. Oh well, that's my thing. Can I send you a picture in here? Yeah, in the chat? Yeah, it's an old picture of the building. Oh and then oh you can see that it says Cotillion Hall on one side and then Wringlers Dancing Academy on the other side, so he was also like a dance instructor. Also downstairs is M. Kraken motor Co. Oh yeah, and that's like kind of I think that's like where the bar is now. I feel like I yeah, which is interesting because like it's like a car theme because the Crystal Hotel also used to be like a car place on the bottom floor, and the Wringler's annex was like a tire place. I feel like that was so common. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Yeah, anyway, that was kind of the only picture I had. Yeah, that was the only picture I brought. Since you've been there, you know what it looks like on the inside, I sure do. Well, should we do some taro for the Crystal ball room some Tarrant balls room? Well, do you want to do the cute ghost poll for me? Oh my god, I really like feel like that's the one. Okay, all right, all right, all right, I'm gonna light my candle over here, open the doorway. Ooh, that was a

57:41 good shuffle. Okay, I need the vibes. I'm gonna grab my book. So vibes, vibes, crystal ballroom vibes, Wringler, Lola, Daddy Watson. You okay, i'm as spread, I'm asa spread the dick spread it. Where where am I? What am I feeling? Kind of like under your hustle, under the hustle side of your shirt? Wow? Okay, all right? Is that not what you were feeling? No? It is ooh okay. The nine of coins, nine of coins, nine of pentacles. But I drew it in reverse. Oh okay, okay.

58:30 So our keywords are abundance, material, well being, security, comfort, and success. Some decks, including the Aquarian and the writer Waite Smith Taro, depict a woman with a beautiful bird standing in a vineyard. Oh that is so weird. Just okay. So learning about Lola, her grandchildren showed a picture of her and like her bird. Oh okay, that's interesting. And she was like kind of outdoorsy too, that is very cool. Okay. The ripe fruit symbolizes a period of plenty and accomplishment. It's time to harvest your crop or brew your bear. The nine of pentacles reversed may mean you depend on someone else financially interesting, although your situation may be comfortable in the material sense, you feel trapped or bored. Oh that big reminds me of like the Katilion Hall where it was like really profitable. But then he started playing jazz music. So I felt like he was feeling like trapped and bored and like, ah, I'm sick of this fucking cotilions. Yeah.

59:50 Yeah, like something that you just like don't feel passionate. Yeah, yeah, that's needed some spice in his life. Yeah, he got it, boy did he. You'd like to get away, spread your wings, but responsibilities hold you back. Perhaps you don't feel satisfied with your success or don't feel you deserve it. Oh that's interesting, but he like kept trying and trying, you know. Yeah, Oh this is interesting. Okay. In a reading about money, the reverse nine may indicate squandering money or losing property. Oh okay, perhaps do it with theft, damage or deception?

1:00:38 Oh maybe deception, because I know I don't even think we kind of brush the surface of what Montrose Wrangler was doing. I know there was a lot of other shady shenanigans going on, so yeah, deception could be a huge part of that. Yeah, if you're purchasing or selling property, this card recommends caution. He sold it to the countryman. Caution, caution, save us all. If the reading is about your job, this card can signify boredom or a lack of freedom in your work.

1:01:18 Perhaps you feel you should have accomplished more or achieved a higher position by now. You may long for a vacation or retirement, but can't afford to leave your job. Well, it got he kind of got a forced yeah, forced retirement there. I hope he sold it for enough that he could well. I mean, I don't know if he was like a good dude truly or not, but I hope he sold it for enough where he could just go, like live the rest of his life or whatever you wanted to do. I don't know. Yeah, go fly and be free. Wrangler. In a reading about love, you may feel stifled or disenchanted.

1:02:00 In a relationship. The reverse nine can symbolize a partnership based on money and or security that lacks excitement or romance. It can also suggest lack of independence or equality. One person holds the reins. What if that's like the relationship between Lola and Montrose. One of them clearly has more power, one of them has a badge and one of them is going to get their fucking way. Maybe I know it's not like a romantic relationship, but definitely there was a power struggle. I mean there was there was something going on here. Maybe she like hate loved him, you know, like secretly loved him, hated him. That's actually kind of an interesting thought. But she was like from what the grand kids say, her and her husband were like very much, you know, in love and together and always doing things together.

1:03:05 So who knows. I don't know. A woman's heart is an ocean of secrets. Uh, bring it back to Titanic. I was just gonna say it all circles back. It does. Can I see the card one more time, just to see the colors and things? Oh? Is it like roses in the background or is it just like red? No? I think that is supposed to be roses, Oh like Portland, Like, yeah, roses, look at us. Who. It's funny because I like brought up like the rose parade and stuff too. Yeah, ooh, you went onto something. I wonder if Lola had roses because I'm pretty sure she was like a gardener, like a big gardener. Oh, from what I remember in the video, So interesting about the bird too, Like, how random is that? Yeah, yeah, that is Yeah, well you'll have to watch the video.

1:04:09 Maybe not like watch the whole thing, but yeah, because it's like an hour long, but it is. I was. I watched it. I was like intrigued at what they were. I was gonna say an hour, like that's not that long, Like I'm curious. Yeah, it's really cool that that mcmenimums does those kind of like historical presentation things. I don't think I knew that they they have like their own historian. That's really cool. That is really cool. Maybe we'll have to see if you can find their historian nowadays and maybe have them on the show. That would be so cool. Come on the show. Tell us about minimums histories. Are you the mcmenimon's historian? Am I the mcmenimum's historian. I feel like Shay might be the mcminimum's history a little bit.

1:05:01 Oh my good. Great, Well that's all I have. That's all, folks, that's all, folks. Oh you know what we do have we do some Patreon shout outs. We've been neglecting. Oh no we do, yeah, we do. Because if you guys didn't know, we are still dropping. We're going to be dropping some like bonuses for Patreon. So maybe some of the weeks that we are having other people fill our spot with their show. If you still want mo of us, maybe join the Patreon. I don't know. So we have some Patreon shout outs to do. We have four from the Creepy People tiers. Oh goodness, one dollar tier. We have Pascal is it Pedro? Is it Pedro? Pascal?

1:05:50 We don't know? Hey, I mean i'd like to think so, I you know, we'll just go with it. And then we have Suzanne Susan Jay ten twelve. Hello, I like your name. Are you actually named Jay ten twelve? Did you? I feel like I have questions about that? That's all sing Suzanne. Are we talking summers like I could be? I got a lot of follow up questions about these. We'll talk to them on Patreon. We'll figure it out, okay. And then we also have I believe another podcast, Beneath the Rain Shadow b TRS. Okay, Oh, that's so cool. They joined our Patreon. Thank you guys. We'll have to check yours out and see what you have to offer. If you have one, let us know. We also have a new inductee to the Terror biddy Patreon subscriber level.

1:06:47 I never know exactly what to say because I feel, yeah, I feel like everybody struggles with the are you a patron a Patreon you're a Patreon subscriber? What are you? What do we call you? You're a tarot biddy. She's a tarot biddy, That's what we call you. Welcome Sam, Hey, Sam, Sam, thanks for joining. Do you do Taro? Let us know, hi, girl Hu. We also have a chat, a group chat, I don't know what to call it, a chat on Patreon, and I like will add just random photos of like what we're doing. Like the other day, I sent a photo of the backstage of our crazy setup or travels set up that was like on boxes, Like, so if you I don't know, if you do, Taro, if you pull a card for the day, if you want to like share it in there whatever, Oh we'd like to see cool. Yeah.

1:07:45 I I think you even told me at the time. You're like, oh, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna send this to the Patreon and I was like, I don't know what you mean, and then I forgot about it. But now I remember you were saying I sent them. I'm gonna send them. It's behind the scenes because it's so. Professed, so professional. You guys get to see all of the bts, shenanigans, the BTSs. Oh that's fun. We have fun here. We have so much fun here. Well, that's the end of our phone for the day. That's it. True. Do thing that we have. Let's do it thing. Have a creepy as day. See you next Tuesday. Well someone will, I mean maybe some will be there. I'm gonna stop it.

1:08:34 I mean I didn't wait to b say do we need to? Oh? Yeah we did. We did. Never mind forget me? You want me to forget you? Okay, forgive me too, machine Gun Kelly law Connects. Do you want to know where I went for dinner last night? My moments? Yeah? But do you want to know which one? The one that stotted it all? Is a Barley Corns? Yeah it is. You cheated on me at our spot. You didn't take me to Barlecorns. What did you get? A Portland dip? Yeah? I did? I hate you? Okay, every freaking mcmenimums I've been to in the past like two years, I swear does not have the Portland Dip and I haven't had one in a long time, and I'm dying. Well, I mean for Portland. Somebody could have come out here to record in person. Do you have some left? I ate it for a long Oh. Well, that doesn't help