Pain in Puyallup - Part 2

0:00 If law enforcement was aware of this aspect of her background, did that play a role in how dismissive they were initially in her case? Did they assume that Misty was a runaway because of her tribal connection? Whether this information was known at the onset of the case or not, or how it might have worked for or against Misty, and those searching for her feels almost irrelevant in any case. [Music] Hi Cassie! Hi Caitlyn!

0:40 I'm looking at you! I'm looking at you! Is it weird? So weird! Wait, do we need to like, side-eye each other? I'm not used to seeing you from this angle! I know! What are you seeing? I hope this is my good side. It was straight on! Oh my God! What? She's oddly silent! I'm like, oh this is my good side and she's like, if I say nothing, I'm not a liar! Well, hi creepy people! If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides. Where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.

1:21 Did you notice I pointed to the wrong people? You said true crime and I did this and you said spooky and I did that. That was wrong. We're opposite. It was not correct. It was totally wrong. Yeah. We know it's not wrong. What? Doing a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic for the day. That's true. That's true. Very true. So stick around if you don't think that is wrong also. Yeah. A stooot observation, my good co-host. Thank you. Okay, so we were trying to cheer us and the internet died because cheers to new office space. That was kind of cute.

2:01 You could see our blurry hands go into each other's frame. Yeah. I liked it. I liked it. We do have something very special to do before we start. We have a VIP Patreon chat. I was like, I was looking at her and was like, "She forgot. She forgot. She forgot. I was like, "What's the thing?" I can't take anymore. Surprise. Yeah. My body was literally about to reject whatever was coming. Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, we have Amanda who joined the... Is it she is thick? She is. She thick.

2:42 She thick. With two C's. And I like it. That's the tear that she's. I don't think that's correct. I think isn't it? And I love it. Oh, she thick and I love it. Damn it. I fucked it up, you guys. Whatever. Love like same thing. This is about Amanda. Okay. We need to give her her VIP treatment. Okay. We're going to send her a bottle of champagne, talk that covers strawberries, rose petals, to spread on your bed, some bubble bath. Not really. Just kidding. Okay. I was like, "Huh. That's interesting. I think we have a lot, some budget that I was completely unaware of." I wish.

3:22 Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's really the best promotion for Patreon if I've ever heard it. I mean, we should start sending them to. Yeah. I mean, if we would, if only there were more VIPs. Yeah. And if thousands, I think probably is the more thicker, more thickerness in the VIP section over here. Yeah. We're very, very lucky to have the Patreon members that we do, but if you can help us grow and have more, that'd be so cool. We do love you. Yeah.

4:02 I literally moved for you. Yes. She did. Yeah. Just for you, Amanda. We did this just for you. Just for you. You're so cool. And Amanda has the thickest heart I've ever seen. Oh, I like what you did there. I like it. I like it. I like it to lull. Do you like it or do you love it? I love it. Seem thing. Well, Amanda, you have to let us know if you like or love your VIP treatment because those are your only options. To like or love it. Yep. Sorry to teach you about the champagne in the boat.

4:43 Yeah. I always rude. Should we get into the episode? Yeah. Let's do it. Part two. Okay. I'm ready for it. Okay. I can't remember what part one was about. Let's go. Well, so here's the thing. Is my notes start? And this is, I'm reading them directly. Cassie. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. So I didn't put this in, but now I feel like time has really magnified the, I don't even know the word. Is it irritation or I've got a bone to pick with you.

5:27 With me. Yeah. What did I do? Yeah. I know. I was like, "Oh, we're in the boat." I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't know you had a sportsing joke. You did? Because I told you I was like, "Oh, remind me. We have a sportsing joke." Oh, no. At the end. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, it's fine. Will you ever forgive me? I mean, I already have it. Like, I didn't care that much. Okay. So it's actually just kind of a sportsing meme. More than anything. So it's a meme. A what? A meme. A meme. So it's a, it was a, when I first saw this several years ago, it was just a bottle of clone and something like.

6:14 Well, so that's what I'm getting to. That's what I'm getting to. So it actually said, like somebody just photoshopped on like a label and it says, "Romo Cologne." And it looks like it's supposed to be like in a magazine and it's supposed to be like a cologne, like ad. And their tagline says, "You wear it. The other guy scores." Listen, if you were a Cowboys fan. Yeah. Okay. Well, anyways. I had to at least try to get a giggle in before we started because obviously this is going to be a really dark story or series of stories in part two.

7:01 We're all going to learn so much about Puyallup and some of the surrounding areas. It might just be coming out of our ears by the end. I don't want anything coming out of my ears except for earwax. I was like, "Do you want stuff coming out of your ears?" Period. They're the only earwax because that makes it clean. So that's fine. Okay. And then you could hear what happens. Okay. I felt like I just rambled on for five minutes. I don't think it was five minutes, but that was impressive. In November of 1992, King County officials announced they would be reopening the Green River Killer Case.

7:45 Both the press and locals wondered if authorities suspected the yet unknown killer in the cases of Kim Delange from Sumner, Washington and Anna. Okay. These are some names here. Chebetnoy, Puyallup. We're going to go with that. I trust you. Following their disappearances from the Puyallup area, both girls would sadly be deferred dead. Oh. I mean, I kind of saw a comment that I hate it still. Yeah. Don't like it. The 15 was killed in July of 1988.

8:26 Aww. Then Anna 14 was killed in August of 1990. Damn. I just feel like the whole month of my birth should be kind of excluded from anything nefarious. Yeah. Good luck with that. Yeah. No. I'm just saying, I don't know. It upsets me. It upsets me when anyone dies from murder. Yeah. But I really hate that. Yeah. When I was born, I know. Boo.

9:06 An interview with the King County homicide detective would later reveal that his investigation was operating under the assumption that like the previous two disappearances of teenage girls from the Puyolip area, it was unlikely that Misty Copsey would be found alive. Did you say unlikely? Yes. Aww. I was like, I was hoping that you were going to say like, "What are you doing?" You said likely, didn't you? Right. No. Okay. The same detective, along with many others, noted that there were two years and one month between each of the disappearances.

9:49 Kimberly was last seen in July 1988, Anna in August 1990, and Misty in September 1992. Where? 788-8992. Oh, there's a lot of numbers you just spit out at me. I was kind of trained to present it both ways like in alpha and also numeric form because I know people's brains kind of process information differently, but the important thing to take away is like I said, two years and one month between each of the disappearances. Is that 25 months?

10:31 Yes. Okay. Yeah, I did do the math first. I was like, "Who 13?" And I was like, "Oh shit, she said two years." Yeah. 12. Times 2 plus 1. Do you know what would really make me just like comprehend it a little better is if you told it to me? And it's a whiteboard? Yeah, whiteboard, but in you wrote it in Roman numerals for me. Oh, yeah, that won't ever happen. Not a million years. Mostly because I don't know how. This strong suspicion that Misty was probably already dead wouldn't come to light until well after searchers found clothing linked to Misty in 1993.

11:12 They were the articles of clothing Misty was believed to have been wearing at the time of her disappearance. Aww, that's not a good sign. No. The detective also believed that Misty was killed by the same person who killed Anna and Kimberly. The bodies of Anna and Kimberly had been discovered along the south side of Highway 410 near Enumclaw around mile marker #30. There remains only roughly a hundred feet apart, chillingly also in very close proximity to this site is where Misty's clothing would later be found.

11:59 Oh, yeah, there's a lot of things like connecting it. I was going to ask is it just because it was the two years and one month apart or was there more things? Yeah. It's also such close proximity. So getting into super nitty gritty details, these are young women kind of that fit a similar profile, so to speak. And yeah, so I feel like it would be silly not to at least consider the idea that they might be linked.

12:41 Yeah. Yikes. The baggy acid wash jeans Misty had borrowed from her mother and other clothing items were found in the area and that marked the end of hope for Diana, her mother. No. I just like wanted to cling to the cool acid wash. I know. I just like that she borrowed from her mom. She borrowed from her. And they were too big. Oh, I love it. They hung off of her. So that's like so cool though in the 90s. Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. I used to borrow my mom's clothes sometimes because I liked like, oh, yeah.

13:22 Oh, yeah. And I still get close and are too big. Yeah. These clothing items were proven to have been present for some time in the dirt. Which I think is worth noting because there was a lot of speculation about whether some of those clothing items based on the fact that they were found by a volunteer search party and they were found by Misty's mother, Diana and Cory Bober on a search part of that group that was helping them. Oh.

14:03 It was also after one of the detectives had spent like six hours out there searching. And it's always possible that things get missed. But there was a lot of speculation that like, did they place these items there? Did the search party or did the detects, okay, inch, but like why would they do? Some people have speculated over the years that Misty was met with foul play at the hands of people very close to her. I don't think that over time that accusation or that, you know, theory of the case has, I mean, number one, it hasn't aged all that well because it's all based in, I would say, really sort of derogatory stereotypes.

15:04 It just, there isn't really a whole lot of basis for it. Just in my own research. But it's a very strange case. Misty Copsey's case is really kind of a wild one. But yeah, that's one of the things that's come up over the years that I can't quite wrap my head around how people really glom down to that one. It's really sad for the people that found it too. Like her, her mom was in that group, right? You said? Yeah. Oh my God. And then to like be accused of that, it's terrible.

15:46 Well, in from the beginning, she's not really been believed by law enforcement. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. I mean, that was a huge, that was, it's a huge criticism of the case and the, you know, the investigation really from the jump because she had really a hell of a time trying to report her child missing. Yeah. Hate it. Yeah. We don't love it. Did we talk about that in part one or was? Yeah, I think we did. Okay. Talk about that a little bit in part one. We can't even begin about a little bit. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And, you know, the tough thing is that like I get, if somebody has reported a child missing before, you know, that if you have that familiarity with a family as law enforcement, you know, it would be really hard not to let that color, you know, your experience with these people.

16:42 But I, and I do think actually this rings about now that, you know, we're coming back to this. We did talk about this in part one because one of the things that I, I'm almost positive anyway, that I had mentioned was that she'd reported missing at one point. And she never pulled off that report after she found her because she was like, oh, that's embarrassing. Right. Everything was fine. But they also never did any follow up. Yeah. This is months later. And as far as they know, she was still missing.

17:22 Right. And that was true. That was crazy. No investigation. No follow up with the family. Yeah. That's not super comforting if you need to do it again either. No. No. No. I mean, this is a, it's a systemic issue that like they're not taking, you know, certain reports seriously. Yeah. But here's a question. How did a volunteer search party know to look in this area specifically? What are the odds that a civilian search would uncover? The currently missing girls close in that very spot because that's exactly what happened apparently.

18:06 It said that a civilian following the investigation was able to pump a source close to the case for the location where the two bodies were discovered. So that would be Anna and Kimberly when he visited the Amie's office. That man was Corey Bober. Boy, is he an interesting character? Oh. In this whole decades long debacle. So the only reason that the civilian search party ended up there was because he pumped somebody on the inside for information about where the bodies of those two girls were actually found. Okay. I mean, that seems like really intense.

18:49 Yeah. And he's a very intense guy. I can't tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing. I would say arguably maybe neither. Okay. So I'm picking up the vibe where it's like, yeah, it's just intense. It's very intense. It's like camping. It was nearly two weeks after Misty's initial disappearance that a local sergeant met with Diana at the junior high where he also spoke with some of Misty's peers. After conducting these interviews, the sergeant informed Diana that Misty would no longer be classified as a missing person, but as a runaway.

19:36 Because of what the other kid said. Mm-hmm. Okay. Reliant the kids. Mm-hmm. Okay. And not her close friends. Which I think I'm going to say later, but I feel like I could say it three, four, five times and it bears repeating. It's, yeah, that's ridiculous. Oh my God. You see, unfortunately, there were stories relayed by some of Misty's classmates, stories of having seen or spoken to her since her disappearance that were taken at face value. Mm-hmm. Okay. That same sergeant even spoke to local media and news outlets to inform the community that Misty was not considered a missing person, but rather a runaway.

20:26 Based off of what kids who didn't know her that well said because of like high school rumors or whatever middle school you said, you are going to get so pissed here in a second. Middle school is even worse. No one knows what's going on. No, you don't know your head from your ass. It was a devastating blow for Diana in the case because she knew better, but no one else seemed to agree. The teens that were circulating rumors about seeing or hearing from Misty weren't even good friends of hers. One of the girls would later recant stating that she'd been hopeful it would somehow bring her attention and maybe make her more popular.

21:13 Who? The girl herself or Misty? She wanted to get the attention from having seen or spoken to this girl who had gone missing. That sounds exactly like what a fucking middle schooler would do. Yeah. Doesn't it? I don't know. Even in middle school, I just don't think that I could have done something like that. I mean, there were things that happened when we were middle school, early high school that were kind of similar. And I don't know. It just sounds like a shitty fucking little immature kid thing to do. Yeah. I mean, it does. It does. I just better than that.

21:54 We would never do anything like that. You know, I think that there are just certain things that it's a maturity level. I'm not coming from a place of like being, you know, holier than thou, but like, I think from a fairly young age, there were just certain things that I understood that like, this isn't a white lie. Yeah. You can't make things up about this type of a situation because it affects real people in a very meaningful way. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe that's naive of me to say now as, you know, a woman in her, you know, very early 30s.

22:39 We are so mature too. So mature. One girl claimed to have gotten a call from Misty, who was reportedly in Olympia at the time of the call, though it's unclear why she would have been there. There was another claim that Misty was seen at the Color Me Badd concert on September 21, 1992. I went so far as to confirm that Color Me Badd was in fact at the Puyallup fairgrounds on that date performing because to me, it seems fairly clear, at least in hindsight, that both of these stories were bullshit.

23:21 Yeah. And I really wanted to know. I really wanted to know was Color Me Badd even in the state of Washington? Yeah. They sound cool. I wanted to know who they are. I want to listen to some songs later. Okay. Yeah. Was that even her type of music, though? Like, do you know any of that? I have no idea. I think that's interesting. At that point in time, even if they weren't like your favorite, the fact that they were in Puyallup, you probably would have gone if you were a teenager. That's true. Like what is going on? Yeah. Yeah. Very much.

24:01 Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, it doesn't make sense because it doesn't. You can't make the puzzle piece as fit. No, you can't. It's like somebody who's already been missing for several days and this is, you know, a kid that just, I'm sorry, but I just don't, I don't see her going missing. Her just disappearing and, you know, not being in contact with her family. Yeah. That's going to circle back. Well, even if she did run away, like, and then she went to like a concert in public where she knows people are looking for her.

24:45 I mean, I assume if she was a run away, she would know people were looking for her. Right. So you wouldn't go to like a public concert in the same town that you are missing from. You wouldn't think. Yeah. Even a teenager, I feel like would be, you know, come on. You got to be smarter than that. Around this time, relatively early on in the investigation is when Diana found an unlikely ally in Coery Bober. So we've already kind of broached the topic of the Bober. Of the Bober. Yeah. Not to be confused with the Bebes. Definitely not. Not the same guy. That is all totally different.

25:28 Totally different dude. There was a part of her that was relieved to find someone, anyone that was just as relentless in pursuing answers in the case. Are you going to tell us like who this guy is and why he cares? Well, a bit. Okay. Yeah. I'm just like super interested on like that is his connection to this thing's person. No, it's a thing. It's a thing. It's he, it leaves you wondering for sure. Yeah. Oh boy. For his part, Corey Bober was really more relentless about his particular theory in relation to the Green River serial killer case.

26:14 Okay. I mean, okay. He believed that the man who killed all three of the girls was a former Puyallup resident who he was also adamant was the Green River killer. Okay. Starting to click a little bit. That man while later convicted for sex crimes perpetrated against a child was not by anyone's estimation, the Green River killer. Well, I mean, anyone other than Corey Bober, that is. He is not letting that go.

26:57 Really? Really? Still like to this day. Yes. Really? Yeah. Yes. I mean, I haven't seen anything that's like up to like yesterday or-- Yeah. But-- To this very day. But yes. Yeah. I don't think he's ever letting that go. His name was Randall Dean Achziger. Achziger. You know what? Really? Does it matter? No. But here we go. The men had become acquainted in the early 1980s. So at this point, we're fully like a decade later.

27:38 It was a handful of years later in 1984 that Randall made a comment to Bober from which his suspicion and eventual theory would grow. He told Bober the killer inserted rocks into his victims' remains. OK. Randy claimed he'd overheard the information about the case from an intoxicated Auburn police officer at a wedding reception in neighboring Kent.

28:22 OK. If allegedly it was the captain who shared the previously well-capped law enforcement secret. What? This is a detail that they're holding back because they need certain details not to be known by the public. Yeah. So they can know when they've got the real McCoy confessing. They don't want any false confessage going on. Yeah. I kind of don't think that they cared. But that's conjecture allegedly for legal purposes.

29:05 I mean, obviously if the captain is going to spill in the secrets when he gets a little too tipsy at a wedding. Listen. OK. You can't hit the sauce too heavy if you're going to start spill in details like that. It loves the sauce myself. But also I'm not privy to those kind of details of an active investigation. I would not trust myself with secrets. No, like no. I don't know. I feel like you have to you have to get your mind right. Yeah. I meant like having secrets and then like getting drunk. But then I'm like, wait, I keep a lot of people's secrets.

29:47 So I don't really know what I'm saying here. Yeah. You're not at your good at keeping secrets. Right. Huh. Weird. I had no idea I was getting provoked. So I know there were so many signs. I got drunk with you a lot before that. And I didn't still one secret didn't spell one fucking being. I could be a captain. I think you could. Was this like proven or did this guy just say this or you're going to talk about it? I some of this stuff, it's like how would you ever be able to truly verify it? Like the captain didn't like come out and admit it or I don't know that he's ever come out and admit it.

30:31 But I will say that there are certain things that only certain levels of law enforcement would be privy to that. It's like, okay, well, like it's a relatively short list. Like, yeah. And the fact that he's named a specific person and like, is somebody's wedding. So that even goes back to like, we can look and see what date that was. And like, yeah. Like, why would he lie? Yeah. I put that in a one check. Probably. Who knows? Who knows? They're not checking a lot of shit here.

31:12 Did you check? Did you hunt down this? There's no way. There's no way for me to figure that out. I really wish, but you did what you could with the concert. I did. Yeah. I did. Oh my God. I spent 30 minutes alone just tracking down the date of the concert and checking where... I'm not kidding. I looked up archives of color me badd's. Fucking tour schedule. Oh my God. It's so funny. I was like, I need to know. You just need to know. And if you know, if you need to know, probably find it, it's like even better.

31:54 Truth be told, this detail is still only partially accurate, but in any case, Coery Bober simply did not believe him regarding the source of the information. He's like, only the killer would know that. How did he know that that was even true? I mean, that's a really good question since that's why I led with it was only partially true. Right. Okay. So... Like, yeah, like, how would he even know that that guy is telling the truth about that? Yeah. No, it's a really good question. And only someone who maybe wasn't dealing with a full deck would think that, oh well, this is the basis of...

32:41 Yeah. And like, he just went from zero to a thousand from there. If I was the other guy, I'd be like, wait, how do you know that that's true? Right. You did it. You know the information. And they just both go back and forth, accusing each other. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. He was convinced that Randy, Achziger, Achziger, Achziger, we still don't care. Was a serial killer plaguing not only Puyola, but throughout other local communities as the Green River Killer? Now that name probably doesn't sound familiar to you.

33:22 Least of all, as the man convicted for the Green River Killings. I don't know who got convicted. But you know, that's not the right name, right? I mean, I would have... I've never heard that name before. Yeah. But yeah, what's his name? Are you going to tell me? Do you want me to? Yeah. Gary Leon Ridgeway. That kind of sounds familiar. Yeah. Gary Ridgeway is the name that you've probably heard. Yeah. Quite a few times. Yeah. Okay. Not bad with serial killer facts. Like I know random ones here and there and like the names of who did what here and there but like not a lot. Yeah.

34:02 I mean, by and large, I feel like there's a few names that like... Like kind of... Everybody knows. And he's kind of one of them because even considering the number, just there's so many prolific serial killers in the Pacific Northwest, this guy really, the numbers are the numbers that we can even come close to confirming they are astounding. Yeah. But there's every indication that to this very day, Corey Bober believes that Randy Achziger, Achziger, who cares-iger, is the Green River Killer and that Misty was likely one of his victims, all based on his extensive research of serial killers.

35:00 Okay. This is despite the lack of evidence to back it up and the fact that another man has confessed to numerous killings attributed to the Green River Killer. It should be noted, however, that Gary Ridgeway would have absolutely zero motivation to confess to any additional killings. If he killed anyone that we don't already have confirmed, we probably will never know, unless we can back it up with DNA evidence. Damn.

35:40 This is particularly true of Misty Copsey's case. If he was responsible for Misty or any yet unlinked Pierce County crimes, he may not have been able to escape the death penalty. Once his plea deal was with King County. If Misty was in fact killed by either of these men, we will likely never know, as my research indicates that Achziger, Achziger, who gives a fuck-iger, died in May of 2021. Wow. And like I said, Gary ain't talking. Oh, it was like Gary, Gary Ridgeway, the actual Green River Killer.

36:27 Yeah. Wow. He's still alive. Yes. Wow. Where is he stationed? Where is he held? I didn't mean to say stationed. The Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla. Wow. So like not that far. Nope. I mean, how many of these guys have we talked about in some of them are still alive? I mean, you talk about like the I-5 killer. Randy, another Randy, what's his butt? He's down in Salem. That's not that far. Yeah. No. Depending on traffic. On the five, of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of alarming.

37:08 And they kind of, I mean really, really, really alarming. Ooh, that reminds me of that thing you pointed out about the hitchhikers by the prison. That was you, right? Okay. Yeah, that creeped me out. I was like, I never knew. You have to start that. You have to tell the people. Yeah, tell that story from the top. Okay. So we were driving along the highway where Caitlin was driving. And all of a sudden she was like, oh, is that a prison? Because I just saw no hitchhiking signs. And I was like, what? And you were like, yeah, they put those around prisons. And I was like, why? I looked over and I was like, that's definitely a correctional institute of signboard refashion.

37:55 The sign didn't just say like no hitchhikers. Like it said, like do not pick up hitchhikers. Like it was like very... No, it was, it was, it was eloquent in its brevity. But it indicated, yeah, you shouldn't pick up hitchhikers. Because they maybe recently released criminals. And hopefully we let them out for a good reason. But just in case we didn't. And they're looking to immediately become a recidivism statistic. Yeah, maybe don't.

38:36 I was thinking to like, what if they escaped? Like, and they would just like immediately try to like hitchhike to get out of there. Yeah. You guys, we have something really exciting to share with you. Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties. Do you love true crime, but are looking for something different? Do you like learning about cases so off the wall they can't possibly be true? Do you love history? But want to hear about what they didn't teach you in school? Do you like laughing awkwardly about cases that are bizarre and a little strange?

39:16 Then we have the podcast for you. Join me, Lindsay. And me, Madison, for Ye Olde Crime. Where we discuss the funny, strange, and obscure crimes of Yesteryear. Listen every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you next time with another tale. Yeild is crime. In 1996, as what would have been Misty's 18th birthday approached, stories began circulating in the media that any day now she would likely be contacting her family.

40:03 Her father and the Piala police, who would remain convinced, at least publicly, that Misty was a runaway, weighted with baited breath for a call that would never come. Is this after they found her clothes? Yes. And this is Deli. Years later. Are saying that she's going to... Then by 1997, Corey was battling the legal system in connection with charges related to marijuana, not his first rodeo. He struck gold, however, when he included the pants that Misty had been wearing along with their forensic analysis in his discovery, because you know he represented himself in that case.

40:57 Oh. I mean, he's just up against marijuana churches. Right. You know. But he was able to claim he'd assisted police as a civilian investigator. He discovered that the analysis revealed hairs were discovered along with three red paint chips. Wow. It's more than we knew before that. Though he believed another man to be guilty of at least some of the crimes now associated with Ridgeway, he was able to badger law enforcement into testing the red paint chips.

41:38 Unfortunately, the results came back inconclusive. What are they testing for? They were trying to match it to something. Okay. The samples were lost thereafter. Of course they were. Yep. Yep. Yep. That's going to be kind of hard if you don't have to match it too. They had a couple of good options and things to try to match to. But had past tense. Jesus. Diana had misty declared dead in 2000. That's a lot of years later. Yeah. Eight years later.

42:19 And Corey Bober was able to convince a local church to host the funeral for free. Oh, local flower shops to donate flowers. He also compelled enough media attention to make it a rather large event. Okay. Well, I mean, he kind of redeemed himself a tiny bit. By the mid 2000s, Diana had hired a PI. Unfortunately, he wasn't able to turn up anything new in the case. However, he did urge and eventually convinced her to cut Corey Bober off completely. Oh, wow.

43:00 Even after all he did for the funeral. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I was trying to like, try to like get on their good side. Yes. And there was a brief time where she was convinced by law enforcement to file a restraining order against Corey. Wow. And my understanding is that like, current day, they have not remained in close touch. But they do have quite a history. Wow. Yeah, I would imagine someone like that would just be like, theory intense in your life.

43:40 Yeah. I keep just like using that word to describe him, but I feel like he has a very intense energy. Yeah. I mean, if I showed you some of the tweets and the Facebook posts and, wow, there's a lot of stuff that's no longer viewable online. Wow. But yeah, there's a very intense energy. But I think by and large, I think I'm tempted to believe that he meant well. Yeah. Some people just get very, very deep into what they believe in and they can't see anything else. Yeah. I think what illustrates that for me is the fact that he was very much unwilling to give up his theory about the green river killer.

44:29 Yeah. I mean, you put so much time and effort into that one theory. You put your eggs in that basket and it's hard to let that go. Yeah. Yeah, especially if you're a man. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're not used to being wrong. Yeah. Hair samples found with Missy's jeans were tested in 2013, but no match could be found. In recent years, Puyallup police have asked for anyone with pictures from the day that Misty Copsey went missing after leaving the fair.

45:09 That was September 17, 1992 to come forward. Now it wasn't until I was thoroughly engrossed in riding up this second part that I realized I kind of lied in part one. You liar. But I'm okay with it. And here's why. Misty's first off, sometimes I lie, but it's always all accident. Very little source material mentions the fact that both Misty Copsey and Anna Chebetnoy Noy, were members of local tribal communities.

45:51 Misty the Cowlitz Indian tribe and Anna, the Puyallup Indian tribe dating back to the beginning of May 2023, there were at least 142 unsolved cases with Native American victims in the state of Washington according to the state patrol. Here it was riding up part one, previously thinking all the while. This won't be a story about the native or indigenous population in the area. Well, it turns out there's a good, but maybe also scratch.

46:32 It's a horrible reason. For that we need to turn to a woman named Debbie Hassler. She's both the founder and manager of the Cowlitz tribal pathways to healing program, which strives to provide numerous forms of victim services and advocacy for the Cowlitz tribal members. The Pathways program works with people who have suffered sexual assault, domestic violence, as well as other types of violent crime. In more recent years, Hasler also took it upon herself and the program to become the keeper of a list of missing and murdered members of the Cowlitz tribe.

47:20 Misty Copsey was listed as white or Caucasian for years in the police records and news articles about her disappearance. And in photographs, Misty could be said to present that way. Certainly she doesn't appear to have dark hair or maybe some of the other defining characteristics that many of us are accustomed to in someone of a native background. But Hassler did confirm prior to Diana's death in 2020 that Misty was actually a member of the Cowlitz tribe.

48:02 So we're police unaware at the time and this just didn't get caught and corrected. Surely that seems plausible. Does this incorrect detail account for the volume of coverage that Misty's case received compared to some others? That seems probable. If law enforcement was aware of this aspect of her background, did that play a role in how dismissive they were initially in her case? Did they judge Diana more harshly for her drinking? Did they assume that Misty was a runaway because of her tribal connection?

48:44 Whether this information was known at the onset of the case or not or how it might have worked for or against Misty and those searching for her feels almost irrelevant in any case. Because the fact is numerous mistakes were made in the course of the so-called investigation into Misty's disappearance from the very start. And likely not unrelated to that simple fact, Misty has never been found decades later. In the state of Washington, a bill was passed in March of 2022 that tasks the Washington State Patrol with providing alerts regarding missing indigenous people, just as would be done in the case of missing child or medically vulnerable adults.

49:39 I think that we're all most likely fairly familiar with how amber alerts work. So information about missing individual is sent to law enforcement and news agencies, as well as posted on social media and electronic highway signs. It's pretty slick, right? Yeah. And that makes determining the race and ethnicity of missing people pretty important. Which you might think would already be the case, but it's really crucial in order for the new alert system to work as intended.

50:20 On September 17th, 2017, the Puyallup Police Department got creative attempting to keep Misty's unsolved case alive. Oh, wow. The department's official account became sending out a series of tweets in the voice of Misty Copsey. Oh, God. They shared details of the case, but also some slightly more sentimental content, like photos of her as a very young child. Their hope was that on the 25th anniversary of her disappearance, perhaps someone with information might come forward to help solve the aging case.

51:03 It's a pretty touching campaign, actually. Oh, but sadly, it doesn't appear to have had the desired result despite the renewed effort. That's pretty much where Misty's case ends officially. A few things I wanted to add came up in my research. There was a deeply unsettling incident that occurred in 1993 near the Puyallup Fairgrounds just months after Misty's disappearance. It's often discussed in connection with Misty's case. Could the perpetrator be the same in both cases?

51:45 It's hard to say, but here's the story. A man in a red Camaro starts cat calling an otherwise harassing a 15-year-old girl at roughly 2 a.m. just blocks from where Misty would have been abducted or otherwise disappeared. That man was Robert Leslie Hickey, and he would eventually force the young girl into his car. He would drive to his secluded area before ultimately raping her. Fortunately, despite his best attempts, this victim would survive a fall down a steep ravine.

52:26 It was just five short years after this horrific crime that he would be a free man again. After attempted murder. I mean, I think the argument was that, oh, she might have just slipped and fell down the hill. Oh, yeah. You know, all he did was rape her, you guys. He slipped and fell into her vagina. Yeah, it's fine. There's also reportedly a 1993 tip that was never investigated. A man with a proven track record of violent sexual assault involving young girls and young women. He drove a yellow Chrysler Cordova.

53:09 There was at least one report of Misty having been spotted in this man's vehicle. Oh, really? That seems helpful. Yeah. To my knowledge, the identity of this potential suspect has never been revealed. That makes me highly uncomfortable. There's also someone we talked about in part one that seems worth revisiting. Ruben Schmidt. He was a friend of Misty's. A significantly older friend of Misty's as a very young teenager.

53:49 And he was already 18. He was arrested for theft in 2000. Then in 2006, his wife obtained a domestic violence protection order against him. There's also a piece I found dating back to December 2015 on a UK-based daily news website, published by an anonymous author and alleged relative of Ruben. Oh, they claimed that Ruben and his uncles were responsible for Misty's disappearance. And asserting that they may have been behind the wheel of the previously mentioned yellow Chrysler Cordova.

54:38 Wow. But they never followed up on this. I mean, this is all published to an international news website, news. But yeah, it's hard to say. They've never released the identity of whoever that potential suspect was. Damn. There's also the story dating back to. But okay, no, this is real. Okay. I was like, did I start reading the same part again? There's also the story dating back to many years prior. At the time, Ruben was working sporadically at a local establishment called Adam's Ribs.

55:23 Oh, okay. Yum. Yeah. Delish. The owner, Frank Rodriguez, spoke to Lawn Forrestment and revealed that he was aware of suspicious statements that Ruben had made regarding Misty and the circumstances surrounding her. Mysteries disappear. Okay. I'm not going to like this. I can tell about your face. I hate it. I hate it. That's why I started to stumble over my words. Oh, I hate it. He alluded to knowing the location of Misty's remains and that the investigators were off by about 6.5 miles.

56:08 6.5 miles. Okay. What a statement. Somehow, he's always seemed of little interest to Lawn Forrestment. Despite stories paraded by more than one acquaintance, indicating that either he and or other male family members of his may have had something to do with Misty's 1992 disappearance. You should know that where they found the clothing is. The location of that and the family farm that he reportedly was the day after her disappearance. Oh, the proximity.

56:49 Is it 6.5 miles? Listen, it's very suspect. It's, I don't like it. I don't like it at all. I don't know that we've mentioned anyone that anybody could for sure say like, yes, this person. Obviously, if anybody could say yes for sure this person, they'd probably be in prison. Which I guess actually Mr. Ridgeway is. Yeah. Like, did they dump her clothes there? Like, did they know? I like, how would they know that? I just, yeah.

57:31 It's very odd. I don't like any of it. Really. There are almost too many suspects. Yeah. Potential suspects. And some of the potential suspects were never really treated like they were potential suspects. So it's, it's impossible to know now. Yeah. So I hate that. Unless they find her. This many years later, I just, I wonder if that's possible. How long until like bones are gone, you know?

58:15 I mean, they would find bones at this point. Yeah. But they've, they've used like some of the technology that's supposed to like penetrate the ground. They did years and years and years back. And I just wonder, you know, maybe I feel like if we are using ground penetrating rate of heart. Yeah. That's the victim that's in a body of water. You know?

58:56 Yeah. God. I really hate it. And water is so fucking hard to like search into. I've heard. I mean, I don't have experience, but yeah. But I think logistically, like, I mean, you can understand why that would be very challenging. I don't think you have to have sort of body. I feel like you're qualified to speak on that. You've injured a body of water and yeah, did you ever like take swimming lessons where they would like throw stuff and you would have to go find it in the bottom of the pool? I don't know that I ever took like formal swimming lessons. Or did you like do that in the pool within like a friend's?

59:37 Oh, yeah. And they took that in the pool. But it's still like even like just doing that and you can see through to the bottom and it's usually like a colorful thing. It's very challenging. It's kind of hard to find. It like moves around. Yeah. It is. It's challenging. So I can't even imagine like a natural body of water. Yeah. No. The fuck. I'm going to flash to May 2001 in nearby Lakewood. At roughly 10 p.m., a young woman is walking home from church. When a man driving by offers her a ride. Though she declines, the man pulls over.

1:00:20 Guess what? It's Robert Leslie Hickey. Oh. Is he the guy in the yellow thing? Or is that a different guy? That might be a different guy. Oh. This is the guy that we just were talking about. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. There's so many. There's a lot of. Yeah. There's so many men out there killing women. Is he the one with the farm that's close? Or is that a different guy? The one? You said you had a farm close by the... No, that's Ruben. Oh, God. Who is this guy? Oh, my God. No one knew. Can you do this? No, we talked about him. Okay.

1:01:00 So, remember, he was a man and a red Camaro. The red Camaro. He started calling a young girl, forced her into his car, raped her through her down a ravine, and he got five years. Yeah. Okay. So, it was him trying to pick up this girl, leaving church. Yep. Yep. He's a Robert Leslie Hickey. And when he approaches her, she tries to both quickly and discreetly move away from him by crossing the street as she dials 911. Wow. He continued to approach her. He sends her falling down the roadside embankment as he both gropes and threatens her before realizing she has already called for help.

1:01:51 Good. Because this was his second offense, when Hickey is convicted for attempted second degree rape, he receives life with no possibility of parole. That's good. Ligit the only time I've ever heard of a sex crime being taken even remotely this seriously. Wow. I was shocked. I was shooketh. Did... I mean, I guess I don't really want to ask that question. I'm like, did he actually hurt her bad? I mean, he definitely hurt her, but it sounds like as... I think I know what you're trying to get at.

1:02:32 Did he hurt her the most? Did he hurt her the most? Did he hurt her the most? Did he hurt her the most? Did he hurt her the most? I mean, he certainly assaulted her in a sexual way. Yeah. But he looked down and saw her phone and the call had already connected. And he was like, "Oh, fuck, I can't risk this." Well, too late. Too fucking late. Yeah. They already got your number, bro. I mean, fucking letting him out five years later and then this happened. Like... I'm glad it wasn't worse. Like, I hate that it had to happen to somebody, but... Oh my God. It could have been so much worse and it could have kept going.

1:03:14 I mean, and it could have been worse than in different case. Speculation about whether he might have been responsible for Misty's disappearance or that of the other two Puyallup girls has loomed large in hindsight. One of his crimes was commit just blocks from where Misty disappeared. Could the red chips found near her pants have been from his red chameuro? Aside from the location, the time period also matches that, but he has denied any involvement. As a result of his aforementioned crime, he is now serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole.

1:04:00 It just feels good to say it again. Yeah. Just feels good, you know? Thank goodness. Did they try to match the paint chips to his car or was that gone by then? Yeah, I don't know. They're gone now. That's right. They are gone now. They are gone now. I don't know that they ever tried to make any sort of match to his vehicle. I was thinking that when you, as soon as you said it, there was someone with a red car and I was like, "The red paint chips, the red paint chips." Yeah. We're going to go do tarot, but first we're going to go do the pee. Yeah, we're going to pee. We're going to go pee. Okay. Bye. Okay.

1:04:46 Okay. It's the four of pentacles and reverse. Okay. Is this a woodpecker? That's a really good question. I'm going to pass you a little book. It looks like he's pecking seeds or something like out of a tree. In some words, security, materialism, caution, possessiveness, greed and creative blocks. In some tarot decks, the four of pentacles features a man with four pentagrams attached to his body.

1:05:27 The image suggests his money and possessions define him. There's symbolized ability, therefore this card signifies financial security or seeking it. We did pull that in the reverse. When the four of pentacles appears reversed, it suggests your conservative attitude and limited vision are causes of stagnation. Seeing investigation. As a result, you encounter obstacles and delays that keep you from moving ahead. Sounds about right.

1:06:10 Yep. You need to make changes to stop clinging to old ideas and tried and true methods, but you're afraid to take a risk. Why? Do you think you might help some people if you did? No, I don't. Sorry to say. When a reading about money, this card recommends against an investment or financial venture at this time. Sometimes it indicates imprudent spending or bad decisions regarding money or property. Like losing things, certain important things perhaps. Yeah, I mean, that's fair.

1:06:50 I hadn't thought about that actually. Well, when she said I didn't either until you said like property and a property. Yeah. If the reading is about your job, the reversed four can mean you feel insecure in your position. Outsourcing, cutbacks or competition may threaten your job. Interesting. You may be passed over for promotion or failed because your skills are outdated or inadequate. Oh, interesting. Say in a mouthful right there. When a reading about love, you may fear losing control in a relationship because you sense your power dwindling, you feel insecure.

1:07:35 Perhaps you depend on your partner for financial support and feel trapped in the relationship. Well, so what I'm hearing is insecure man. Yeah. From this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but never it's never, it's never a good thing to have an insecure man about. It is not. Okay, there is an extra excerpt. It says, you've heard the saying money is the root of all evil, but the actual quote is love of money greed is the root of all kinds of evil. In some terro decks, this card is labeled greed.

1:08:18 The thought, terro, however, calls it power and gives a more positive interpretation, a solid foundation on which you can create something sound. Wow. Interesting. It's like greed, greed and power. Yeah. Did we figure out if this was you asked about the imagery on the card if it was a, it's an acorn woodpecker. It is a woodpecker. Which I've never heard of an acorn woodpecker before. That's interesting. You got to figure there's multiple breeds and yeah, and I are these acorns that he's pecking out of a tree.

1:09:01 I don't understand. I mean, they would be. Yeah. In tree bark. I would think like not stereotypically. It's interesting. I'm just like we need to do more research. I need to learn about the nature of these woodpeckers. Okay. Basically, you know, insecurity, blah, blah, blah, all the things possessiveness. Yeah. I'll read the story. What's a granary tree? Granary? Granary? Granary? The granary tree was beautiful. That must be what kind of tree that is. We'll have to look that up. Yeah. That's interesting. A thousand and one acorns all perfectly placed in perfectly sized alcoves.

1:09:47 That's hard to say. Oh. Okay. So do they pack the hole and then put the acorn in it? Maybe. How's granary spholt? G-R-A-N-A-R-Y. Okay. That's what I thought. So this says, like, the number one search result is storing food, or storing food, the granaries of acorn woodpeckers. Interesting. It's interesting because it's like they're hiding things. Mm-hmm. So that's kind of... I don't know. Oh my gosh. Okay. So they hoard thousands of acorns in these trees, apparently.

1:10:32 A thousand and one. Oh, this is so bizarre looking. You're going to have to look at this after we're done. I... Maybe I'll send you a picture right now. Okay. This is so bizarre. I've never seen anything like this. Yeah. That's what the... It's what the picture looks like. Yeah. That's why it's like so weirded out. It looks like, you know, when people have the whole ofobia... Tripephobia. Oh. That's what that reminds me of. Just a lot of holes with seeds stuck inside. So yeah, that's super interesting that they're like hiding and like burying and... Yeah.

1:11:13 Yeah. Yeah. That is. Wow. Gosh. Also, like, how weird is it that they're saying a thousand and one, and we talked about it being two years and one month? It was just like... Yeah. Something so random. Yeah. Yeah. It's just weird that it's saying that here. Oh. Very strange. Okay, I'm going to finish it. Okay. Okay. So all the acorns are in little holes. At sunset, they shown like drops of gold. At night, the woodpecker dreamed of the pattern of their inlay, recalling clearly the placement of everyone.

1:11:56 Oh. Oh, I don't want. But he awoke, feeling uneasy, and as he surveyed his collection, his suspicions were confirmed. An empty space, a missing knot in the lattice that wrapped the oak. I like literally have all of the shells. A missing knot? Yeah. Oh. Like, one of the acorns is gone. Yeah. Stolen. It's taken. He doesn't know what happened to it. Oh. Okay. It's not over. Okay.

1:12:36 This would not do. The imperfection stuck in his mind like a splinter of dry bark. What if winter stretch longer than usual, and he needed one more acorn to last until the thaw? A thousand and one acorns just weren't enough to truly be secure. How he thought flying off to scrounge another a thousand and two sounds much better. It's just like super crazy. It's like bearing things and things are missing. Oh. Yeah. Weird. Oh.

1:13:16 So he's got to get two more acorns. I don't like the way I just said that. Anyway. Well, what do you guys think? Let us know as always if you'll because there's stuff we guys are stuff that we miss in the tarot and no one ever comes out and tells us. That's not true. Sometimes people. Yeah. I know we were like, okay, everybody tell us. Sometimes some people tell us. I'm just like, shit, how did I not see that? Yeah.

1:13:56 So if you see something, let us know. But you're like, you are just honestly absorbing everything that we produce in terms of content. Like sometimes just, you know, just so many times because of the editing process. Yeah. Yeah. And you know what? A thousand times. Exactly. A thousand and one. And one or two. Or just. Yeah. I think probably you deserve to relax a little bit. I think you do too. Yeah. Should we? Should we summon a thousand and two shots? I think we should. I think we should celebrate this space.

1:14:38 And we should get someone to bring us a shot. Like who would we be? Who could do that? Have a creepy ass day. Soon as it takes two days. Unless this beat hits a little harder than we thought. Yeah. You know. Oh, yeah, that went up the back of my nose. Oh, yeah. It burns so good. Your girl isn't taking shots even on the weekends anymore. Too old for this shit. You're never too old to. Yeah. That's exactly what that is.

1:15:19 That's exactly what that is. Okay, next time it should be Jello shots. I agree. Yeah. Some a little lighter next time. Okay. I'm getting on. I'm going to instacart this Jello right now. Okay. Because we're so old we need to eat Jello. I love Jello. Okay. That's what makes shots bearable. Okay. I've done Jello shots with my grandma and she loved them. She didn't know there was alcohol in them. It's so cute. It's so cute. That was rude. What? This cord was. Oh, it's okay. It's on the blue cord. This cord is on top of the blue cord and you're kicking the blue cord.

1:16:06 So it's moving this cord and I thought it was a ghost. Oh, well, you know what? You didn't, you weren't in love with the lamp but like what? Like that? That's a ghosty trap. Not a trap but like a detector. Goasty detector. Goasty detector. Goasty detector. Got it. This is, we started ghost hunting. I've gotten Caitlin into ghost hunting and she's fucking love us. I guess so. Well, here's the thing. We haven't had anything spooky happen here. Interesting. Very interesting. Isn't just.

1:16:47 Except for all of the technology shenanigans but we are blaming it on Mercury. Yeah. Because that's a thing. So. Regere grade is bitch. Anyway. Um...