April 14, 2025

Oregon's Deadliest Shooting – Umpqua Community College

Oregon's Deadliest Shooting – Umpqua Community College

On October 1st, 2015, tragedy struck the quiet town of Roseburg, Oregon, home to the Umpqua Community College campus. When 26-year-old Christopher Sean Harper Mercer opened fire, it became the scene of Oregon’s deadliest shooting. He fired erratically...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon

On October 1st, 2015, tragedy struck the quiet town of Roseburg, Oregon, home to the Umpqua Community College campus. When 26-year-old Christopher Sean Harper Mercer opened fire, it became the scene of Oregon’s deadliest shooting. He fired erratically on both students and staff, senselessly killing nine people, wounding several, and leaving countless others with unimaginable trauma.

Investigators would slowly uncover the story of the man behind the violence and what led him down such a deadly and destructive path. Much of his time was spent, either isolated, or in the darkest corners of the internet. That’s where his penchant for violent, hateful ideologies seemingly began. In this episode, we peel back the layers of a deeply disturbing story—exploring Harper Mercer’s childhood, his struggles with mental health, his obsession with guns, and his dogmatic descent into incel and racist philosophies.

As we remember the victims, this case serves as a grim reminder of America’s ongoing mass shooting crisis. While this story undeniably centers around violence and loss, it’s also a story of resilience and humanity even amidst horror and in the face of tragedy. We also honor the incredible bravery of survivors, including Chris Mintz, a U.S. Army veteran and student who risked his life to save others during the attack. This is the story of survival, heroism, and tragedy in Snyder Hall.

Honoring the Lives Lost: Lawrence Levine, Lucero Alcaraz, Quinn Glen Cooper, Lucas Eibel, Jason Dale Johnson, Treven Taylor Anspach, Rebecka Ann Carnes, Kim Saltmarsh Dietz, Sarena Dawn Moore

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:06.879
October first of twenty fifteen, at the Umpquah Community College

2
00:00:06.879 --> 00:00:12.480
campus near Roseberg in Oregon, Christopher open fire inside Room

3
00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:17.600
fifteen of Snyder Hall. This tragic incident marked the forty

4
00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:21.879
fifth time that year. Those living in the US and

5
00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:26.399
others watching from the world at large were left to

6
00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:40.799
mourn yet another school shooting on US soil. Hi, Kennessey, Hi, Caitlin, Hi.

7
00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:45.520
Creepy people, helloo, and the waving continues.

8
00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.479
We're back in our normal zone, recording zone.

9
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:52.840
Everything here is normal.

10
00:00:53.240 --> 00:00:55.280
We still have trees behind us, but they're not real.

11
00:00:57.079 --> 00:00:57.359
Yeah.

12
00:00:57.960 --> 00:00:59.960
I was like, what, we got a lot of common

13
00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.320
it's on our background for the last couple episodes.

14
00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.640
Oh that's true. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

15
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:07.400
You guys liked it. It's very p and W.

16
00:01:07.799 --> 00:01:08.879
Yeah, we do what we can.

17
00:01:09.000 --> 00:01:11.319
It's fitting because this is.

18
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.879
P and W hans and homicides, where we shut about

19
00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:20.319
drue crime, the paranormal, and most importantly the Pacific Northwest,

20
00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:24.359
arguably I think pretty important is kind of key to

21
00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:25.000
the whole thing.

22
00:01:25.159 --> 00:01:26.239
It's kind of important.

23
00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:27.439
Uh huh uh huh.

24
00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:28.680
And it's the PNW.

25
00:01:28.840 --> 00:01:31.400
If you're nasty and as I was like, oh god,

26
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:32.560
we're saying it.

27
00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:34.799
I did it.

28
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.400
Okay, I can do it too. We can rely on

29
00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:41.319
each other, Okay, all right, just kind of take that

30
00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:46.640
roal shell pells. And also sometimes do you know what

31
00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:49.799
else starts with tea? Oh?

32
00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:55.719
Clever cigo taro, which we do in every episode for

33
00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:57.719
a little deeper insight into our topic.

34
00:01:58.200 --> 00:01:58.879
That's try.

35
00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:01.000
We do tongues and tar in every episode.

36
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:05.760
I mean normally, I don't think every episode requires Tom's,

37
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.120
but when in Rome, I don't know.

38
00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:12.599
I feel like, especially yours sometimes would require toms because

39
00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:14.039
I get very upset.

40
00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:19.199
Yeah, I hear like, hmm, indigestion. Maybe it's fitting. I

41
00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:19.560
don't know.

42
00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:22.360
Yeah, it's true crime today. You saw it on the slapper.

43
00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.439
On the slip Actually we probably cut that part out,

44
00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:28.000
but yeah, well, you know, we don't know what Tailor does.

45
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:29.360
Talan's version.

46
00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:36.080
Who could say? You know what else starts at the tea? Taylan? Oh,

47
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:39.919
I love that Tailan's version. Yeah, oh it's so close too,

48
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.280
I know. Oh my god, which speaking of Tailan, we

49
00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:44.680
should say just real quickly.

50
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:49.080
I don't know if you guys saw the hand, did

51
00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.400
you guys see the fucking avatar ghost that we have

52
00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:59.919
it was episode. Duh, I know it was on news episode.

53
00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.759
I don't know the number off the top of my head. Yeah, okay, yeah,

54
00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:10.960
two o one. There was some freakin' activity and we

55
00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:11.520
caught it.

56
00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:16.479
Taylor caught it. She saw it, and we're gonna talk

57
00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:17.000
for about it.

58
00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:19.120
We'll have probably an episode where we have her on

59
00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:21.000
we need to and we're going to talk.

60
00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:21.360
All about it.

61
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:25.120
Yeah, yeah, because it was really exciting when we found

62
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:25.919
out we caught something.

63
00:03:26.199 --> 00:03:29.280
Yeah, and I don't care what anyone says, well that's

64
00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.680
not true. I'm very interested. But unless you have a

65
00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:38.800
better explanation than was that, Charlie couldn't have been.

66
00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.560
It must have been upstairs. I do you have been.

67
00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.759
I mean, we're just talking about this thing that happened

68
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:48.120
in this office.

69
00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:55.840
Seriously, and we have had the infestation to end all infestations.

70
00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.000
You guys, It's like something out of a horror movie.

71
00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.120
Oh no, I feel like at this point in the

72
00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.479
movie you'd be telling these people like, oh girl, you

73
00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.360
in danger, but like nothing that was like such a

74
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:14.400
big red flag that you'd immediately move. Not yet, so

75
00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:15.479
stay tuned for that.

76
00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.720
Wait, you have to wait until the locusts get in

77
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:19.279
that's bro.

78
00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:24.560
We have had and I kid you not, Okay, it's

79
00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.279
that time of year and we've started putting out stuff

80
00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:31.000
because ants are gonna they're coming in, okay, And they

81
00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.199
have been on a very small scale, and it's been

82
00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:38.079
manageable and we've gotten rid of them, and hopefully we

83
00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:41.560
have used almost everything on God's green Earth I could

84
00:04:41.560 --> 00:04:47.319
think of to just get stay away ee wee. But

85
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.959
we have had, I kid you not. One day Chris

86
00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:59.279
found or more accurately, I found and instructed cue like

87
00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:04.199
over a dozen spiders and there had been at least

88
00:05:04.480 --> 00:05:07.639
three a day after that, for like a full week,

89
00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.480
and it made me kill one today today, Yes, and

90
00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:14.120
there was a bee in here. Ah, there was a

91
00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:17.279
bee in here earlier today, and I was like, okay,

92
00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:19.240
did it get your bonnet? No?

93
00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.399
Isn't a thing in your bonnet?

94
00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:23.000
Yeah?

95
00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:23.519
No.

96
00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:28.199
So my impressive record of still, you know, having lived

97
00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:32.959
twenty nine glorious years on earth without being stunned stung

98
00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.360
remains like, what do you mean you are stunning? It's done,

99
00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:42.959
it's done, it's done. Yeah, rough times here Remember that

100
00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:49.199
wasp ness that like appeared in front of your house? Dude?

101
00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.639
I just I really want just things that like shouldn't

102
00:05:52.680 --> 00:05:55.839
be in or around my house to just you know,

103
00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.800
just go be where you should be. Go be okay

104
00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:07.360
elsewhere any Who's all? I don't even know. I don't

105
00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:08.800
even know where we left off.

106
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.639
But I don't either, because you guys probably didn't hear it,

107
00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:13.839
but we were talking about the ghost hand thing and

108
00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:15.680
how we're gonna have tailor on and then we heard

109
00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:16.720
like a bang.

110
00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:20.720
Yes somewhere. Oh my god, thank god you at least

111
00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:21.399
remember that.

112
00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.079
Yeah, I don't remember what you were saying, but.

113
00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:28.279
Oh, I started to say. I hope that it's not

114
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:31.120
It's not that I don't care or that I will

115
00:06:31.160 --> 00:06:35.040
accept no other explanation, but somebody needs to produce a

116
00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:42.079
better explanation than just like the term camera artifacts, right, yeah,

117
00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:47.720
especially if they cannot adequately explain to me, like a

118
00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:52.199
four year old, what a camera artifact is. I mean,

119
00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:56.160
I know what they are, and that I don't I

120
00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:57.360
don't know, I don't know.

121
00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.319
Well, well, we'll go into it though, we'll talk about

122
00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:04.480
it in depth in an episode because it's crazy. But

123
00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.680
if you want to give us your opinion on what

124
00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:08.079
it is like, please feel free.

125
00:07:08.199 --> 00:07:10.160
Would love to hear it, but it better be good.

126
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:12.560
Yeah, you can watch the video or we made it

127
00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:16.160
reel about it. You see it there, Yeah in stigreem.

128
00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:21.199
Yeah. Okay, well that seems like we've kind of stole

129
00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:26.040
that out as long as we can. So should we

130
00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:33.839
do this? Let's do it. I am prepared. It's so

131
00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:40.519
cute you think that. Christopher Sean Harper Mercer was born

132
00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:45.319
July twenty sixth, nineteen eighty nine, in Torrance, California, to

133
00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:52.920
parents Ian, an Englishman, and Laurel, an African American woman. Notably,

134
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:55.879
quite a bit of reporting would state or speculate that

135
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.279
he had actually been born abroad across the pond in

136
00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.920
the UK. I haven't found anything that actually substantiates that,

137
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:08.199
so I think that that's just kind of what happened

138
00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:11.839
in the media circus after the fact of the thing

139
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:15.920
we're going to talk about. At any rate, the couple

140
00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.839
would separate prior to his birth, and though they had

141
00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:23.360
custody arrangements in place, they were not enacted through much

142
00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:28.040
of his early life. It seems so Dad had visitation

143
00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:32.120
and or partial custody, but it doesn't seem like that

144
00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:38.039
really happened. It's unclear exactly why that is, Okay, fast forward.

145
00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:42.399
By twenty thirteen, he'd lived nearly his whole life with

146
00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:45.320
his mother, Laurel, and when they moved to Oregon, he

147
00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:47.840
would see even less of his father in the years

148
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.639
immediately following their move, which was only a couple of years.

149
00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:55.279
Based on these facts alone, his early life might have

150
00:08:55.399 --> 00:09:00.279
seemed slightly sad, perhaps even a little fraut. You know,

151
00:09:00.759 --> 00:09:03.919
children of parents that have separated or you know, of

152
00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:09.639
divorce sometimes have a tough time. But he wasn't even

153
00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:12.159
born when they separated, So this is the only thing

154
00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:15.080
he's ever known, right, Yeah, not to take away from that,

155
00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:17.080
but still must be tough though.

156
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.720
It's like, yes, you have a single mother trying to

157
00:09:19.799 --> 00:09:20.320
raise you.

158
00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.440
It's got to be hard, yeah, But it was an

159
00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.639
entirely devoid of the tender moments that you know, one

160
00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.080
kind of hopes every child experiences growing up. His mother

161
00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:35.039
would write online that Christopher, as well as herself, had

162
00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:39.480
been diagnosed with Asperger syndrome. She claimed he wasn't a

163
00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:44.159
and this is a quote babbling idiot, and stated that

164
00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:48.080
she'd read aloud to him as a newborn from Donald

165
00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:50.519
Trump's The Art of the Deal.

166
00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:51.600
Wow.

167
00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:55.480
Personally would have probably stuck with something more like Baby

168
00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:58.879
Einstein type material, but I'm not going to come for

169
00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.480
her parenting at this wish she was reading to him like,

170
00:10:02.720 --> 00:10:05.399
I mean, it's something I kind of thought, like, hey,

171
00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.440
you know, I mean there are times when he has,

172
00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:13.559
you know, proven to be more or less problematic throughout

173
00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.159
his existence, and I feel like back then, a lot

174
00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.200
of people just thought, oh, you know, he's kind of

175
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:21.879
a kooky guy. Oh billionaires, am I right?

176
00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:23.720
If they only knew?

177
00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:29.440
Yeah, oh boy, many would describe Christopher as quiet, even

178
00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:32.360
as a bit of a loaner. There's not exactly a

179
00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:35.399
shortage of people willing to comment on the details of

180
00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.639
his youth. But that's kind of the overwhelming theme, is

181
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:44.120
like quiet kid kind of seemed like a loner, right, And.

182
00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.440
All these people commenting since he was a loaner, clearly

183
00:10:47.519 --> 00:10:49.799
weren't really like his friends or.

184
00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:53.120
Right, probably not the closest people to him, but you know,

185
00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:56.639
people who saw him potentially fairly frequently, a lot of

186
00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:59.360
neighbors and like people that he went to school with.

187
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.759
So you know, I said, there were a lot of

188
00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:06.360
people willing to comment on the details of his youth,

189
00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:11.840
but I mean that was aside from the United States Military.

190
00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:16.799
They didn't really want to comment. Oh okay, Christopher had

191
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.440
enlisted in the Army and entered basic training at Fort

192
00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:24.639
Jackson in South Carolina in two thousand and eight, only

193
00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:29.759
to be discharged just a month later. Yikes. Yeah, yeah,

194
00:11:29.799 --> 00:11:33.759
And I was like, listen, I certainly never been involved

195
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:37.759
even on frankly a cursory level with the military in

196
00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.519
any way. But to me, that was like, oof, Okay,

197
00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:43.120
that seems like kind of a red flag.

198
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:45.080
It sounds like you just like maybe didn't pass your

199
00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:46.440
physical or something like.

200
00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:52.559
You could could be that certainly. Yeah. Yeah. The circumstances were,

201
00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.000
and even now remained to a lesser degree, kind of

202
00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:01.799
shrouded in mystery. There's not a lot that like conclusively says,

203
00:12:02.600 --> 00:12:05.480
but we'll get to that, Okay. Through the course of

204
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:08.799
a larger investigation, it would come to light it was

205
00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:16.360
suspected that a suicide attempt was the cause of his discharge. No. Yeah,

206
00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:19.399
the Army would decline to discuss the details.

207
00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:21.759
Well, okay, that's fair.

208
00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:24.559
If it was like a that's like something medical, you know,

209
00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:25.919
you can't really discuss that.

210
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.200
Yeah, I mean, I think that's fair. Enough, right, But

211
00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:33.879
still his fascination with guns would remain a constant. He

212
00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.720
and his mother owned numerous guns, and target practice was

213
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.399
a popular bonding activity in their household. Did they use

214
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.600
Trump's book to target practice? I don't think so. That's

215
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.919
not the impression that I got. What might be a

216
00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:52.279
little less clear is when exactly Christopher began engaging in

217
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.559
social media and various forums like four chan that proudly

218
00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:04.279
touch a lot of racist and in sell ideologies nice

219
00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:10.879
as well as those that glorify mass shooters. This, no

220
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:14.240
doubt seems like an all too predictable, deadly recipe at

221
00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:15.159
this point.

222
00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:17.159
Social media is no good man.

223
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:20.519
I mean social media in and of itself, but like

224
00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:23.000
when you go to the darkest corners of the Internet.

225
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.919
So true, we'll talk a little teensy bit more about

226
00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:32.840
But later statements made by his mother would indicate, though

227
00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.480
she did not state it outright, that again this goes

228
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:42.480
back to his military service. Can we I mean training?

229
00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:43.279
Yeah?

230
00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:44.440
Yeah, military, mom, I.

231
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.240
Don't know if you really served anything.

232
00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:49.120
Yeah, I mean you're in basic, so I think at

233
00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:52.759
that point it's obviously still just training if you even

234
00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:58.080
made it that far. Well, he was in basic Yeah,

235
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:04.000
that a potentially staged suicide attempt by Christopher had led

236
00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:07.519
to his swift discharge, And I feel like the fact

237
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.039
that their speculation around it being staged is kind of

238
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:16.000
an interesting component. Not a lot of information about that.

239
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:19.960
It's unclear whether he truly intended to take his own

240
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.960
life in the vague incident described during an interview with

241
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.159
law enforcement. His mother would also recall receiving a phone

242
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.000
call from a hospital around the time of his discharge

243
00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:36.120
from the military, not from the hospital. Though The Wall

244
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.039
Street Journal did reach out to the Army, they declined

245
00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:43.120
to comment or discuss any details. Obviously we already mentioned

246
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.639
this is their citing constraints due to privacy regulations. I mean,

247
00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.600
that's kind of a It would be a shame if

248
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:54.840
the US government did something that compromised our service members

249
00:14:55.759 --> 00:14:57.240
private information, wouldn't it.

250
00:14:57.440 --> 00:14:58.600
Oh, they would never do that.

251
00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.120
Any who's a we are going to take It's a

252
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.039
real sharp left. It's a real sharp left.

253
00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:07.919
I look to my right.

254
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:12.080
Yeah, there's not a great way to transition, So here

255
00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:16.480
it is, Okay. October first of twenty fifteen, at the

256
00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:22.080
Umpquah Community College campus near Roseberg in Oregon, Christopher open

257
00:15:22.159 --> 00:15:27.759
fire inside Room fifteen of Snyder Hall. This tragic incident

258
00:15:27.799 --> 00:15:31.799
marked the forty fifth time that year. Those living in

259
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:36.440
the US and others watching from the world at large

260
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.039
were left to mourn yet another school shooting on US soil.

261
00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:46.279
It was also the nine hundred and ninety fourth mass

262
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.879
gun attack in the US in that three year period

263
00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:56.240
following Obama's reelection. Holy shit. At the time, it appears

264
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.919
that the perpetrator was enrolled in the introductory position class,

265
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.879
where he shot a number of victims. Survivors would later

266
00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:07.919
state that a number of the victims were questioned about

267
00:16:07.960 --> 00:16:10.600
their religious beliefs prior to being shot.

268
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.399
Ooh like oh, like the Columbine.

269
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:18.559
Yes, and it's definitely something that's come up in relation

270
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.320
to his case. Obviously, he's somebody that I've already mentioned,

271
00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.159
has you know, been involved in discussions online that glorify

272
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:32.240
mass shooters, Yeah, specifically the perpetrators of Columbine and several

273
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:34.679
other really horrific shootings.

274
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:35.240
God.

275
00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.240
Also, this is something in particular that seems kind of

276
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:43.679
unusual for a shooter that billed himself as not being

277
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:48.360
aligned with organized religion, like even a little bit like

278
00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:51.879
he was. Actually there was a lot of speculation that

279
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:57.320
his crimes may have been sort of an anti religious

280
00:16:57.759 --> 00:16:59.200
I don't know how else to put it, but like

281
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:05.640
almost like an anti religious hate crime. Okay, bizarre in

282
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.119
this case, though, their responses hardly seemed to matter to

283
00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:12.079
the shooter in the end, as so many in the

284
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.119
room that fateful day were ultimately systematically gunned down, it

285
00:17:16.200 --> 00:17:19.960
really didn't seem to matter what the answer was. In

286
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.960
the aftermath, a statement provided by law enforcement indicated that

287
00:17:24.200 --> 00:17:28.400
as the shooting progressed, there was less engagement between the

288
00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:32.279
shooter and his victims, and he shot randomly and appeared

289
00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:34.839
to be trying to kill as many people as possible.

290
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.240
Throughout the ordeal, horrified students and staff reacted in nearly

291
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:47.680
every imaginable possible way, some seemingly stunned into silence as

292
00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.960
they hoped to honestly just avoid the shooter's erratic gaze,

293
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:58.519
and he was frequently described by survivors as being very erratic.

294
00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:02.960
It's an un understandable reaction in the face of this

295
00:18:03.039 --> 00:18:09.759
type of I mean, really almost unfathomable violence. It's just horrifying.

296
00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:14.720
It's just not something that most people have experienced firsthand. No,

297
00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:19.440
I mean, it's certainly becoming more commonplace, unfortunately.

298
00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.599
But that's like, I don't want to hear the word

299
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.319
erratic in like with someone holding a gun, you know.

300
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:35.039
Actually holding multiple guns. Oh fuck dude. Yeah. Others were

301
00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:40.480
spurned into various forms of action. At least one survivor

302
00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:44.599
described pretending to be dead as the shooter swept in

303
00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:51.079
their direction. Another would tell investigators they desperately smeared a

304
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:55.519
neighboring victim's blood on themselves in order to avoid detection

305
00:18:55.799 --> 00:19:01.400
as a potential survivor amongst the group. Which is I

306
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.480
mean this person to have I mean, to be able

307
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.000
to react in that way in this circumstance is I mean,

308
00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.839
it's horrific. And I'm sure you know, to them, it's

309
00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:18.839
like this is absolutely survival mode. The trauma that I'm

310
00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:23.240
sure all of these people really now experience in hindsight.

311
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:27.799
But to look back on that, and I mean that

312
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:32.000
just the guilt that people surely have to feel. It's

313
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.359
such a common thing to have survivor's guilt, and I

314
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:42.039
can't even really put in towards I mean, it's not

315
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:46.440
something that I've experienced, so I just it's heartbreaking.

316
00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:50.559
You use a deceased person blood so that you can

317
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.240
live like that is so sad.

318
00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:59.920
Yeah, that one really blew me away. Tracy Hugh recalled

319
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.720
shooter entering the classroom and hurting everyone into the center

320
00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.200
of the room. She was huddled with the others on

321
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.000
the ground as Serena Moore attempted to climb out of

322
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.759
her wheelchair, though she was instructed to get back into it.

323
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.839
The gunman shot her as she attempted to do so.

324
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:26.319
Though Serena sadly died that day, she was not alone

325
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.440
beyond her horrified fellow classmates that looked on her service

326
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:38.039
dog remained quietly at her side. Her dog, named Bullet,

327
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.319
survived the shooting. What the fuck.

328
00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:44.880
A good puppy.

329
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:50.440
I know, Whome's a good boy, and we are going

330
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.680
to get to some things that are going to seem

331
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:58.160
like insane. But I promised you at the beginning, before

332
00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:00.720
you even got here today, I was like, this is

333
00:21:01.519 --> 00:21:05.720
so horrific. But it's like two sides of a coin

334
00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:09.440
and they are it's like so dark, and there's still

335
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.799
so much silver lining like an equal measure. They're fucking

336
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:14.240
better be.

337
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.000
I don't know why, Like I guess I don't need

338
00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:21.160
to like analyze why fucking murderers doing what they're doing,

339
00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.880
but just like to have someone struggling in a wheelchair

340
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:27.920
to get back in to do what you told them

341
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.960
to do and then to do that, oh my god,

342
00:21:31.079 --> 00:21:33.160
Like yeah.

343
00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:34.720
Like why am I even wondering why.

344
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.279
He's doing what he's doing because it's all just fucking awful.

345
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:39.599
No, it is, it is, it is, And I feel

346
00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.000
like the thing is is that you know, when you

347
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:47.319
know survivors and then law enforcement they're echoing that you know,

348
00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.160
he was so erratic, that just really drives it home.

349
00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.599
It really does, like you can get like a better

350
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.400
sense of what was happening.

351
00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.720
I mean, and it's really a mind fuck because, like

352
00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.599
you said, it's like she was doing what you said

353
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.680
to do and then but I mean he, I mean,

354
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:08.079
it was clear that he was there to kill as

355
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.799
many people as possible. And it's never going to really

356
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:16.640
make sense. Like you can understand aspects, but I mean

357
00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.519
you're never gonna wrap your head completely around it, and

358
00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:23.119
I don't want to. Of course, by now, everyone on

359
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:27.279
campus in Snyder Hall, as well as some neighboring areas,

360
00:22:28.240 --> 00:22:31.440
they were all aware that there was an active shooter

361
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:37.039
in their midst That makes up a small ish section

362
00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:42.200
of the overall campus, though, and an active shooter can

363
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:48.039
move quickly. Yeah all over Most present at the time

364
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.759
fled to safety or attempted to shelter in place, however

365
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.759
they could. Tracy Hugh, despite her desperation to survive the

366
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:03.240
ordeal she was a MoMA three, accepted the risk, as

367
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:08.599
she whispered to another survivor, he's only one person. We

368
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:12.519
just got to do something about it, or we're all

369
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:16.799
just going to die. Little did she know another brave soul,

370
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.200
already adopting much the same mindset, was hard at work

371
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.359
trying to ensure the survival of as many people as possible,

372
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:30.039
and also at great personal risk to himself. As he

373
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:35.200
moved against others fleeing, he seemed at once aware and

374
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:42.799
yet preternaturally determined to continue directly toward the shooter, terrified

375
00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:50.599
and pained screams and the gunfire. Originally from Randleman, North Carolina,

376
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:55.880
Chris Mintz had just started college courses recently and was

377
00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:00.200
himself a student at UCC as well as a ten

378
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:05.160
year Army vet. Oh wow, okay, so he's got some skill, right,

379
00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:11.240
I mean, skill is the tip of the iceberg. I'm

380
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:15.279
he had been in an adjacent classroom of Snyder Hall

381
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:19.960
when suddenly there was yelling when they heard gunfire. He

382
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:23.000
held the door for his fellow classmates to flee to safety.

383
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.480
As he and numerous others fled along the open air

384
00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:31.200
breezeway toward the library, he and another student collided. He

385
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.799
was knocked to the ground in the panic struggle to

386
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.319
safety that surrounded him. So the person that's literally holding

387
00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:41.799
the door open for everybody gets like knocked over, And

388
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:45.880
I'm sure that person felt terrible. But you know, shit,

389
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:50.680
I knock into inanimate objects and people constantly.

390
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:51.559
And you're not well.

391
00:24:51.640 --> 00:24:53.720
You could be in a state of panic constantly. But

392
00:24:55.119 --> 00:24:57.480
it's fair to assume that's not unusual either.

393
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.440
But it's a different it's a different h it's sort

394
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:05.400
of a more of a generalized anxiety. It was then

395
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:10.359
that a nearby counselor indicated that the gunman's whereabouts weren't

396
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:14.680
precisely known and those in the library were likely unaware.

397
00:25:15.160 --> 00:25:19.960
Christ didn't hesitate. He quickly volunteered to warn them and

398
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.720
do whatever he could to see them to safety. He

399
00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.319
ran to the library, quickly alerting everyone to get to

400
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:29.720
the other side of campus as quickly as possible, making

401
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.319
his way through the book aisles, pulling alarms and pushing

402
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.960
through to the emergency exits. At this point, he'd already

403
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.160
proven himself a pretty heroic figure to many that day,

404
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:48.519
but he continued back towards Snyder Hall. Wow, remember to breathe.

405
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:54.519
At some point, amidst the chaos unfolding, a FedEx driver

406
00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.039
captured an image of the shooter. The point of view

407
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:01.119
is only slightly obscured as he peers out of the

408
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:05.519
classroom to see law enforcement approaching the building, and it is,

409
00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.839
of course, knowing the context, it's one of the most

410
00:26:09.920 --> 00:26:11.680
chilling images I think I've ever seen.

411
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:14.119
Wow, how did he get that?

412
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:16.839
I mean, he must have been in the parking lot

413
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:23.000
when all of this started happening. Holy shit, that's scary too, Like,

414
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:24.880
yeahn did he see me take this picture? Is he

415
00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:27.519
about to come out and shoot me? Well, and you

416
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:32.079
could be somebody who's on campus making a delivery and

417
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.039
this could still I mean, the pervasiveness of mass shootings

418
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.720
makes it so that you could literally be anyone anywhere,

419
00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:45.640
which is great. Yeah, I mean that's the most horrifying

420
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.880
part of it is if you're afraid to, you know,

421
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.599
get on an airplane. You know, you can take less

422
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:58.880
flights if that, if you so choose. This feels almost

423
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:04.720
unavoidable in a way, which I can't say how much

424
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.160
I hate that. Yeah. I don't know if you know

425
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.119
this about me, but I don't like mass shootings, you

426
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:16.720
know what, same sise girl. Yeah, it's crazy. I know

427
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:18.680
it's like kind of a hot take. I feel like

428
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:24.240
these days actually, but I'm not a fan, especially ones

429
00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:26.839
at schools. I think there's just something about it the

430
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:28.240
way we were raised.

431
00:27:28.839 --> 00:27:31.119
Yeah, because we were raised having to do the drills

432
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.519
and all that, and so it's just like really deeply

433
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.759
in like an ingrained fear for us, I think being

434
00:27:37.799 --> 00:27:40.599
so young and having to know about that well.

435
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.359
And I mean when we were in high school, we

436
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:47.319
did have a bomb threat that you know, was called

437
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.960
in for our school and that was really scary. I

438
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:54.319
mean even just the idea that there's been a threat

439
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:58.839
is it's in a way, I mean it's on a

440
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:03.119
totally different scale, of course, but I mean that's very

441
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.240
traumatizing as a young person.

442
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.839
Yeah, because you have no idea what's happening, Like you're

443
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:12.559
just told to get down and be quiet, right right, basically,

444
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:15.880
and yeah.

445
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.759
The first hand accounts of multiple survivors, including Chrismins and

446
00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:27.400
Tracy Hugh, provide additional details and insight to the remainder

447
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.880
of the ordeal. Each of them would recall from their

448
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:36.319
own perspective how when Christmins identified the room the shooter

449
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:40.160
was in, he would open the classroom door and attempt

450
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:46.079
to intervene to their dismay. He was shot as he screamed,

451
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:49.440
and I promise you I am not making this up.

452
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.880
I have a six year old son. His birthday is today.

453
00:28:55.599 --> 00:28:58.119
That is the saddest thing you've ever said to me.

454
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:05.519
At some point, amidst all of the disjointed violence and chaos,

455
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:11.400
the shooter addressed student Matthew Downing, saying today is your

456
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.559
lucky day. You are not going to die today. You

457
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:17.839
need to give this envelope to the cops when they

458
00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:22.799
get here. It has my manifesto inside of it. Jesus

459
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:27.240
Christ's gonna be fucking cares, before handing him a flash

460
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.680
drive with the described contents.

461
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:34.400
I mean, it's good that this person is supposedly hopefully

462
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:36.359
getting out safe. That's not what I meant by that.

463
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:39.960
No, exactly. Yeah, I mean, it's just nobody cares about

464
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:44.359
your fucking manifesto. We never have and we never will.

465
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.400
I did locate a copy of it, and you'll note

466
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:51.799
that I have not opted to include any passages.

467
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.599
It's not waste our fucking time.

468
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:58.559
Yeah, we're going to talk broad strokes, general themes, and

469
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:04.440
that's all all I can really bear, to be honest,

470
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:09.640
Downing's actions afterwards are just some a bit confusing, and

471
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:13.519
I'll be the last person to say that it's not

472
00:30:13.599 --> 00:30:17.440
a valid response to be like, why, but why why

473
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:21.839
they do debt? However, I think we all understand that

474
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.799
trauma often causes sufferers to behave in what could be

475
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:32.759
perceived as strange or completely illogical, maybe even irrational ways.

476
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.720
I don't think that's a new concept. When he fled

477
00:30:36.759 --> 00:30:40.799
the classroom, doubting let what he'd been given by the

478
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.519
shooter loose, he like kind of dropped it. Not long after,

479
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.839
another student reportedly found the discarded Manila envelope lying next

480
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:53.279
to his parked car. That student picked it up, later

481
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.160
handing it over when asked about it by a detective.

482
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:59.519
I think it's hard to say what you might do

483
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.359
in the moment moment until you're inhabiting that moment, right,

484
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.400
you don't know what's in there? No, I mean, you

485
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:08.519
know what he's telling you, it is, drop.

486
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:10.400
It and run away as far away from that thing

487
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:11.000
as possible.

488
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:14.000
I feel like that actually is a more appropriate response

489
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.559
than a lot of people gave it credit for. There

490
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:19.400
could be ambacs in there, I mean that was kind

491
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:22.279
of in that era. I mean, who fucking knows, we're

492
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:25.720
so fucked up? Well yeah, yeah.

493
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:25.920
Oh my god.

494
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:29.440
Maybe it's my stance alone, but I think there's a

495
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.559
pretty good chance that after being released by someone you

496
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:37.440
thought was almost certainly going to kill you mirror seconds

497
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.440
before that, you might drop anything he'd given you when

498
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:47.920
you were fleeing, just as if it was radioactive, right,

499
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.160
especially because he's like erratic and yeah, so you're like,

500
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.079
I'm the fuck attic here, just get out.

501
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:55.160
Yeah.

502
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:58.119
It was shortly after the shooter fired on the man

503
00:31:58.160 --> 00:32:01.839
who had fought so hard to protect everyone around him

504
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:06.680
that Tracy said she heard what she believed was law

505
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.640
enforcement engaging the shooter with gunfire.

506
00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:12.599
Oh.

507
00:32:12.759 --> 00:32:18.640
The corner would later determine his death to be a suicide,

508
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:21.720
just as many of the mass shooters that inspired the

509
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:22.240
young man.

510
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.680
Yeah, well does that say I just don't. I just don't.

511
00:32:27.880 --> 00:32:32.200
I did, I don't, you know, And I'm okay living

512
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:36.799
in that ignorance to a degree, like.

513
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.200
Just kill your fucking self that that's what you're going

514
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:40.559
to do anyway in the end.

515
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:49.759
Yeah. Yeah. Tracy Hugh recalled hearing a fellow survivor state

516
00:32:50.279 --> 00:32:56.559
he's down, and her recollection was that this was Matthew Downing,

517
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:03.960
who had been designated the survivor that said this. He said,

518
00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:12.640
everybody get up. So I think this this guy kid,

519
00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:16.359
I don't know how old he is, but I mean

520
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.079
he's fully in fight or flight, quite literally, I think.

521
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:24.720
But I don't think he needs any defense for anything

522
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:29.119
that he's done. He's done nothing wrong. I just I

523
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:33.079
just saw, you know, the way that certain articles were

524
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:37.119
worded and things that it was like there was almost

525
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.839
an assignment of like some sort of blame, and I

526
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.880
was like, I am just not here for that.

527
00:33:42.880 --> 00:33:43.279
No.

528
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.720
At about that same time, Chris Mintz recalled a friend

529
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:55.160
coming out of the classroom to kneel beside him. It

530
00:33:55.279 --> 00:33:59.759
was clear that, as anyone would be, she was incredibly

531
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:04.440
traumatized as she cried and tried to pray with him.

532
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:09.000
In that moment, all he could say was, it's my

533
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:12.760
son's birthday. Please call my son's mom and tell her

534
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:17.760
I can't pick him up from school today. I swear

535
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.079
to God, if you make me fucking cry, I know.

536
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:25.960
It truly seemed that no one could recall a single

537
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:29.599
instance where this man had paused for even a moment

538
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:35.199
of self pity or concern for his own wellbeing. He

539
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:41.719
was immediately and without exception. I didn't come across any

540
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:47.639
but if there are out there, no, without exception, Harold

541
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:51.840
did a hero on that horrific day. Yes he was

542
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:55.960
an army veteran, but he was acting as a civilian

543
00:34:56.320 --> 00:35:03.320
and he was unarmed. In stark con trust. The rambling racist,

544
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:10.719
which is ironic coming from yeah racist manifesto left by

545
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:14.880
the shooter detailed his complaints as a virgin with no friends,

546
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:21.199
also penned by the gunman, his Satanic views, along with

547
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:27.440
the proclamation that success in hell is assured. Hm, what

548
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:34.559
exactly that means? I couldn't tell you what is success

549
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.000
in hell assuming that you believe it exists?

550
00:35:38.400 --> 00:35:41.559
Right, because a real Satanist doesn't really believe that, So

551
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:43.920
what are you actually, so.

552
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:48.159
Are you maybe just a little man boy baby who's

553
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.320
confused nobody wants him?

554
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:55.960
Like I want to feel bad obviously.

555
00:35:55.519 --> 00:35:58.199
No, No, I don't. I know, I know, but like.

556
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.119
You want to feel let me, let me finish.

557
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.400
I want to feel bad, like for someone who doesn't

558
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:04.159
have like friends and things.

559
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:05.960
You need people in.

560
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:09.159
Your life to you know, you're human, that's what you need.

561
00:36:09.239 --> 00:36:12.719
But kind of maybe look at yourself and be like, well,

562
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:15.039
why don't I have it? Like why doesn't anyone want

563
00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:17.440
to hang out with me? Maybe because I'm fucking racist,

564
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:19.559
an asshole.

565
00:36:20.360 --> 00:36:26.679
The lack of introspection in any capacity that could be

566
00:36:26.760 --> 00:36:31.480
construed as healthy is astounding.

567
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:34.639
Yeah, it's like it's everyone else's fault. That's why you

568
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.920
want to go and murder everyone. It's everyone else's fault

569
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.159
that you're a shithead.

570
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.760
Listen, I'm not the problem, literally, everyone else's.

571
00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:44.679
Yeah.

572
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:50.159
Douglas County Sheriff's Office investigators wrote more than one hundred

573
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:54.639
reports following the shooting out the college. Records pertaining to

574
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:59.119
the investigation indicate over one hundred and fifty people were

575
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:03.559
interviewed and more than three hundred pieces of evidence were

576
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:10.320
collected by the thirteen law enforcement agencies involved. Wow. They

577
00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:14.760
determined that the shooter fired more than forty rounds in

578
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.840
the course of the attack, and he had been wearing

579
00:37:18.599 --> 00:37:26.159
metal plated body armor geez, which to me says, I

580
00:37:26.280 --> 00:37:31.119
don't want to be stopped until I'm ready to end this, yeah,

581
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:32.000
which is just.

582
00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:35.239
Like looking for a shootout.

583
00:37:37.079 --> 00:37:41.159
And then he kills himself, so they all do, and

584
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:45.679
I just, oh my god. Well, you have to think too,

585
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:49.480
even if you're not gonna kill yourself. If you are,

586
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:53.480
you're shooting by cops. Yeah, exactly, you have forced them

587
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:56.639
to do this. Either way, you're gonna get shot by somebody,

588
00:37:56.840 --> 00:38:01.519
like I mean, unless you I have so rarely wished

589
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:04.239
for someone to die at the hands of the police.

590
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:10.960
But yeah, you know, if the shoe fits rock that shit, Cinderella.

591
00:38:11.880 --> 00:38:16.519
I mean, I remember this, and I remember seeing pictures

592
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:18.639
of a lot of these people.

593
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:23.800
I don't remember it. I'm sure when it happened, I

594
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:25.119
saw things.

595
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:28.599
But I I will go ahead and I'm going to

596
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:34.320
air drop you some pictures. What you looking at currently.

597
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:38.840
I'm looking at a very blurry bush.

598
00:38:39.320 --> 00:38:42.599
Ah, yes, that's the foot, That's what we're looking it, right, Oh,

599
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:43.880
cute cool bush.

600
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:44.960
Okay, let's move on.

601
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:47.559
Do you see the man in the doorway.

602
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:51.400
I see the man in the doorway. Yeah, it's his face,

603
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:52.840
so thankfully.

604
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:57.000
I mean, yeah, it's it's kind of a side profile.

605
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:02.760
Luckily that the placement of that is really impeccable. But

606
00:39:02.840 --> 00:39:07.159
I assume that you can see is I guess that

607
00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.599
would be considered the foreground. It looks like who I'm

608
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.360
assuming is someone in law enforcement running towards the building

609
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.760
as the man standing in the doorway is peering outward.

610
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:20.679
I was going to say, it looks like there's a

611
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.280
guy riding a bike on the edge, but I guess he.

612
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:25.719
Just looks like he's riding a bike, doesn't he Maybe

613
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:30.519
he's run holding probably holding something. Yes, I believe that

614
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:34.159
is based on context from other photos. I believe he

615
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.039
is holding a very large rifle.

616
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:37.400
Shit.

617
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.960
Yeah, oh yeah, Okay, Wow.

618
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:46.719
This is the FedEx driver's photo. Very close. I mean,

619
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:50.159
it's possible zoomed in, but I mean, even if you're

620
00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:51.519
zoomed in, you are.

621
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.320
Like if his face was showing, you could see like

622
00:39:54.519 --> 00:39:57.719
details of his face. Yeah, you can see he's wearing glasses.

623
00:39:57.800 --> 00:40:01.719
You can see his pants, his cargo, fucking pants. Or

624
00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:02.760
whatever he's wearing.

625
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:05.480
Like they love a cargo pant, don't they.

626
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:10.199
Which is rude because they're very functional, Yeah, and stylish.

627
00:40:10.599 --> 00:40:15.519
I found some better pictures of Christmins. Uh, not a ton,

628
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:18.559
I know, I saw more. I probably didn't think to

629
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.880
download all of them, which is probably not the end

630
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.199
of the world, because how many pictures of a Chris

631
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:28.159
that's not my husband can I possibly Christmas?

632
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:28.800
Oh?

633
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:34.840
Okay, hello, I know listen, I feel like I could

634
00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:40.599
picture myself being saved by somebody less attractive. Okay, So

635
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:45.840
we left off at the body armor. They determined between

636
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:49.599
the firearms on his person, as well as those later

637
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:52.320
recovered from the home that he and his mother shared

638
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:58.039
just outside Roseberg in Winchester, that he owned or had

639
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:01.440
access to, over a dozen guns.

640
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:06.159
That's too many, feels like kind of a lot. That's

641
00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:07.800
about a dozen too many.

642
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:13.119
Might it? I would say arguably for a household of two,

643
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.920
it's at least ten too many guns. I'm trying to

644
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:17.800
be reasonable here.

645
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:21.039
I have complicated feelings on guns. Okay, I go back

646
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:22.559
and forth. Leave me alone about it.

647
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:26.440
I think a lot of Americans do, and I feel, well,

648
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:30.440
that's not going away. That's that's not changing here we are.

649
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.840
They determined that he'd brought six of those guns onto

650
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:40.199
the campus, and two of them were used during the

651
00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:45.719
killings in Snyder Hall. A nine millimeter glock pistol Model

652
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:52.599
nineteen and a forty caliber tourist pistol Model T twenty four.

653
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:56.159
All of that is nonsense to me. I have seen

654
00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:00.039
a nine millimeter or a glock before, but beyond that.

655
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.760
It's it's forty Caliber's pretty big though, right.

656
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.719
That's my understanding. Yeah, yeah, I don't know a lot

657
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:09.440
about guns.

658
00:42:10.519 --> 00:42:11.119
Sounds big.

659
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:17.159
I believe that's correct in either case. And this is

660
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:21.719
not technically in my notes, and I've already expressed that,

661
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.519
you know, he was at one point firing with both guns.

662
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.840
That is just uh, it's just a visual that will

663
00:42:33.079 --> 00:42:35.559
not leave me anytime soon.

664
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:42.440
Erradically like, oh god, it's so scary. Yeah, it's like

665
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:43.199
a video game.

666
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:45.559
Well, I was just gonna say, do you know, I mean,

667
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:48.719
how many movies have you seen about like The Wild

668
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:53.320
West where they're firing with two pistols And I can't,

669
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:59.920
I simply can't. Oregon State Police detectives interviewed Laurel Harper,

670
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.519
but the content of their conversations would not be publicly

671
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:11.039
released until September twenty seventeen. Once released, it was revealed

672
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:15.920
that her son had been prescribed medication. Not entirely clear

673
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:21.159
on what medication that was, just based on my research.

674
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:25.599
It's possible that that is findable information. I don't know

675
00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:29.880
how much that matters at this point, because it was

676
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:34.840
seemingly to no effect or at minimums certainly not the

677
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:41.039
desired effect. Clearly, she described him as being born angry.

678
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.199
Oh well, that's not fair.

679
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.639
I don't know. I mean, some people are angrier than

680
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.960
others at the start. I don't think that. I don't

681
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:57.280
think anyone's born angry. I think when you deal with

682
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:01.320
a child, to me, this reads as almost someone who

683
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:07.400
has like maybe oppositional defiance disorder, where I mean they're

684
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.039
just very combative and I'm not trying to diagnose them.

685
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:13.719
I certainly don't have enough information or the clinical background

686
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.840
to do to do that doctor yet, you know, I mean, yeah,

687
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.719
I've I have friends that have been asking me for yours.

688
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:26.960
Are you a doctor yet? Like no, no, No, it's

689
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:27.400
just sad.

690
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:28.960
It kind of just makes me think of like a

691
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:32.039
baby who maybe has like gas or something like what.

692
00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:33.440
Do they call call like baby?

693
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:37.599
Like? That doesn't mean they're born angry. They're just you know,

694
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.400
they're adjusting to the world. They're in pain, they're little babies.

695
00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:42.559
They don't know what's happening.

696
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:46.159
And then you read them Donald Trump, and then what happens.

697
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.159
I mean, then they certainly become more dussy. No, I

698
00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:53.880
mean I was a callaguy baby, and I think I've

699
00:44:54.280 --> 00:44:58.320
probably shared previously stories that you know, my mom said

700
00:44:58.360 --> 00:45:01.840
things like, as the first time Catholic mother, I did

701
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:05.960
briefly entertain the thought that you might be possessed God

702
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:08.840
as you would projectile vomit across the room. And I

703
00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:12.760
was like, that sounds rough, I know.

704
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:16.119
But you know, you know, shoot a school. So your

705
00:45:16.159 --> 00:45:19.679
mom did something right. Not not that it's the mom's fault.

706
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:20.480
I don't think it's.

707
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:24.960
Yeah, I think there are things in your upbringing that

708
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:29.440
can contribute. I'm not ready to assign blame to a

709
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:34.960
parent specifically. Yeah, it's really neither here nor there, because

710
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:39.480
here we are and these things have happened. Law enforcement

711
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:45.599
also learned that prior to his last violent act, she

712
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:49.599
was aware that he enjoyed watching horrific videos of killings

713
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:53.800
on the Internet. I feel like that was not to

714
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:57.840
make excuses for either him or for her. I feel

715
00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:01.199
like there was an era of the you kind of

716
00:46:02.079 --> 00:46:05.719
mid ats where there were a lot of teenage and

717
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:07.599
early twenties boys that were like.

718
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:12.719
It's so cool, it's like grand theft, and I love

719
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:20.079
watching people getting beheaded on the Internet, and I don't

720
00:46:20.159 --> 00:46:22.000
like any of them.

721
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:27.199
Yeah, someone made me watch the Columbine like security camera

722
00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:31.199
Yet that was fun.

723
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:34.719
Thanks for that, so that I don't want to watch it. Yeah,

724
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.480
scarred for life, it's fine pretty much.

725
00:46:37.719 --> 00:46:42.159
Yeah. No, as someone who's seen even brief excerpts of it,

726
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:46.679
that's Those aren't things that you can erase from your memory.

727
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:52.679
They sure aren't. Nope. Additionally, though, it seems they were

728
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.119
able to document eventually that each of the guns they recovered,

729
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:01.800
whether from his person on the campus or from his home,

730
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:08.280
all of the weapons had been purchased legally. Because their

731
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:13.719
home was reportedly so disordered, his mother could not confidently

732
00:47:13.840 --> 00:47:18.239
determine what guns he had taken from the home when

733
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:20.239
he carried out the deadly attack.

734
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:24.360
Just have guns everywhere? I feel like that's a.

735
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:29.840
I think potentially, if you cannot identify what guns are

736
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:34.159
missing that may or may not point to a problem.

737
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.000
I don't think I'm really going out on a limb there.

738
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:40.559
Someone should at least one person should be able to

739
00:47:41.159 --> 00:47:44.280
you know, was she single, she was the only one

740
00:47:44.320 --> 00:47:45.280
living there with her son.

741
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.440
It was okay, so yeah, listen that I wouldn't say

742
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.320
this is exactly a point in her favor, but to

743
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:57.039
be fair, investigators in fact even missed a weapon in

744
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:01.000
their initial sweep of the home, as it had reportedly

745
00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:04.840
been stored inside a safe beneath the shooter's bed. I

746
00:48:04.840 --> 00:48:07.719
feel like we're not checking underneath the bed.

747
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:11.639
Maybe it was like so dirty under there that you

748
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:14.320
couldn't see it was hidden by like dust bunnies.

749
00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:19.960
I've looked at a lot a lot of photos that

750
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:25.400
were taken during the sweep of their home, and I

751
00:48:25.480 --> 00:48:32.000
can at once acknowledge that it's possible that you could

752
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:38.239
miss something. I do think when you are trying to

753
00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:44.119
recover evidence from the home of you know, mass shooter,

754
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:49.039
I do. I don't know, you kind of had one job,

755
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:53.119
like move the bed. Yeah, under the bed is like

756
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:57.199
where people hide things, you know, I mean historically, like

757
00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:01.760
even money, which I feel like, you know, still all

758
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:06.599
told between their home, his vehicle, and the UCC campus.

759
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:11.920
They seized over a dozen guns, a large cash of

760
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:18.119
various ammunition, as well as accessories. It was much later

761
00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.840
that additional alarming footage and records pertaining to his many

762
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:27.719
gun purchases would emerge, because ultimately he was the owner

763
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:32.320
of most of these guns, overwhelmingly most of these guns.

764
00:49:33.320 --> 00:49:35.280
I mean, I would be concerned if the mom was

765
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:38.400
the owner and didn't know correct the guns.

766
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:39.199
Yes, you know what I mean.

767
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:44.400
It's not that they weren't already aware though, of his

768
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:49.199
massive stash of guns. They certainly understood that he owned

769
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:53.800
a lot of guns. But more so, it's it's that

770
00:49:53.880 --> 00:50:00.320
it's chilling to witness him handling and purchasing various weapons

771
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:06.360
in the lead up to the shooting. Investigators had also

772
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:12.599
seized what was dubbed a last shopping day list. It

773
00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:16.880
had been recovered from his vehicle on nineteen ninety seven

774
00:50:17.079 --> 00:50:21.360
Honda CRV. It was also learned that their search of

775
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:26.679
the apartment yielded what was described as mental health paperwork,

776
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:31.599
but had been found inside a filing cabinet. Additionally revealed

777
00:50:31.880 --> 00:50:37.800
was his purchase of a nine millimeter glock pistol Model

778
00:50:38.159 --> 00:50:43.360
G nineteen out of fred Meyer in Roseberg on January fourteenth,

779
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:48.559
twenty fifteen, in addition to a Taurus pistol model twenty

780
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.679
four to seven purchased from the Mid Oregon Armory in

781
00:50:52.840 --> 00:50:58.760
Roseberg on April second, twenty thirteen. Neither of the firearms

782
00:50:59.320 --> 00:51:02.079
owned by his mother were used to carry out the

783
00:51:02.159 --> 00:51:06.960
attack on campus, so they recovered over a dozen guns.

784
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:14.320
Reportedly she owned two of those guns WOW that were recovered. Overall.

785
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:20.320
A video surfaced that showed him apparently pawning one weapon

786
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:26.800
and purchasing another on September twenty ninth, twenty fifteen, just

787
00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:32.840
days before the shooting. WOW investigators also released the receipt

788
00:51:32.920 --> 00:51:38.280
showing his purchase of a thirty eight high point handgun,

789
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:42.199
and chillingly, though it was in his possession at the

790
00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:45.480
time of the attack on campus, he did not fire

791
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:48.719
it in the classroom. So he literally went out and

792
00:51:48.800 --> 00:51:54.599
bought a weapon two days before the shooting and he

793
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:56.840
didn't even use it.

794
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:58.920
I mean, thank god.

795
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:05.719
I mean, there was no shortage of weapons at his disposal, obviously.

796
00:52:06.599 --> 00:52:09.039
It's just so I think it just goes back to

797
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:11.880
that erratic behavior pattern.

798
00:52:11.559 --> 00:52:15.719
And feels like it wasn't planned. Super well, like, I'm glad.

799
00:52:15.800 --> 00:52:17.920
I mean it isn't really planned well where he used

800
00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:18.880
all of his guns.

801
00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:24.440
I mean, it's so clearly premeditated, but like erratically premeditated,

802
00:52:24.760 --> 00:52:30.559
so disordered. Yeah, so I think for now that's probably

803
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:38.519
enough of the unsavory details related to the investigation's findings.

804
00:52:39.199 --> 00:52:43.599
It's probably fair to say that, although it wasn't intentional,

805
00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:47.320
leaving you on a cliffhanger regarding a certain hero in

806
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:51.119
this story might be considered a bit cruel and unusual.

807
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:56.960
I would say she did comment about this. His efforts,

808
00:52:57.079 --> 00:53:01.880
no doubt, ensured the safety and survival countless others, But

809
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:06.039
what of his own. Chrismin's like many others, had been

810
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:10.320
rushed to receive emergency care that was desperately needed. He'd

811
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:14.239
been You're not even gonna believe this. He had been

812
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:21.360
shot in the back, abdomen and hands. Oh wow, both

813
00:53:21.400 --> 00:53:26.320
of his legs were broken as well. What okay, Now

814
00:53:26.400 --> 00:53:29.159
I had to put this in when I just randomly

815
00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:32.840
came across this. Okay, both of his legs were broken

816
00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:37.960
as well, And despite the speculation of his MMA subreddit buddies,

817
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:42.159
it did not appear these injuries in particular had been sustained,

818
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:54.400
and I quote, from the weight of his gargantuan balls.

819
00:53:52.360 --> 00:53:55.960
Looks like such a dude b friend thing.

820
00:53:56.440 --> 00:53:59.800
It was like in such a like, in such a

821
00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:04.400
sweet way. Wasn't like in the gross dude bro way.

822
00:54:05.840 --> 00:54:11.519
Despite seemingly insurmountable odds, Chris survived the ordeal.

823
00:54:12.639 --> 00:54:17.800
He lived. He lived, He lived to tell his own tale.

824
00:54:18.760 --> 00:54:22.559
I remember seeing pictures of this man and it's been

825
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:28.039
obviously years and when I was researching this and I'm like,

826
00:54:28.480 --> 00:54:32.559
you fucking lived. You made me think he died. I

827
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:37.159
didn't not make you think he died. I mean, you

828
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:42.719
were shot seven times. I had two broken legs. How

829
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:51.039
did he break his legs gargantuan balls just struggling under

830
00:54:51.079 --> 00:54:55.840
the weight of his swimple? I love. There were a

831
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:59.119
lot of really I mean people asked the same thing

832
00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:03.599
in that particular Reddit thread, and there was someone that

833
00:55:04.079 --> 00:55:07.320
purported to be related to him was like, he's okay.

834
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:11.480
I mean, he's super not okay, but like he's gonna

835
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:15.679
be okay wow. In the thread, and people were like,

836
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.320
how do you break those lakes? And they were like

837
00:55:20.559 --> 00:55:23.960
there were a lot of commenters that were like, that'll

838
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:31.679
happen when your body is pierced by bullets.

839
00:55:29.639 --> 00:55:30.920
Like, is that what it was?

840
00:55:33.079 --> 00:55:36.679
It's a little bit unclear if it was directly related

841
00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:40.800
to like a bullet like a gunshot wound, or if

842
00:55:40.840 --> 00:55:43.960
it may have been related to a fall which was

843
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:47.719
precipitated by a separate gunshot wound.

844
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.599
Like I kind of pictured him jumping off of something

845
00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:55.400
and doing like the superhero like like a backflip or

846
00:55:56.119 --> 00:56:01.119
and then like, you're not actually a superhero super regularly, right, Yeah,

847
00:56:01.159 --> 00:56:06.320
you're like, oh shit, but he is actually a superhero superhero.

848
00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:08.440
Like I'm not trying to simp, but I mean spirk.

849
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:11.039
Also, have you guys seen him?

850
00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:15.679
He's not about, like, you know, love a guy named

851
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:17.440
Chris though too? Am I right?

852
00:56:17.639 --> 00:56:21.119
Find out if he is single? He's got a lumberjack

853
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:22.280
vibe he does?

854
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.480
Oh my god, I didn't even I should.

855
00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:31.159
Have known, which I've recently become addicted to Instagram. I know,

856
00:56:31.280 --> 00:56:37.880
shocking because I'm chronically offline. I found the hashtag lumber

857
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:42.280
snack and I'll never go back.

858
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:47.519
Is it all just pictures of Christman's I mean I

859
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:50.119
should be Chris Miles.

860
00:56:51.079 --> 00:56:55.880
Yeah, nice hashtag, you guys?

861
00:56:55.920 --> 00:57:00.840
Oh boy? Okay, So the boy that lived, I am.

862
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:03.679
I mean, he is fully a miles but I'm like

863
00:57:03.800 --> 00:57:05.719
on a roller coaster right now.

864
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:11.679
I'm like, I'm so glad, so I'm setting and so

865
00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:13.039
good at the same time.

866
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:17.119
I know, I was like, does this not explain the

867
00:57:17.360 --> 00:57:21.920
literal nausea that I've experienced today? I feel like I'd

868
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.719
have done that alone. I think, Yeah, I mean, it

869
00:57:24.800 --> 00:57:30.199
really is. Shortly after surgery news trickled out he was

870
00:57:30.280 --> 00:57:34.519
expected to make a full recovery, though it would certainly

871
00:57:34.519 --> 00:57:37.760
be along road, as he would literally have to learn

872
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:38.960
how to walk again.

873
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:41.719
Oh wow, is legs. We're broken that badly?

874
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:47.480
You're apparently that's bad. Yeah, yeah, a lot of venturies.

875
00:57:48.039 --> 00:57:51.400
I guess they don't know, like the extent you would

876
00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.280
have to break your legs to have to learn how

877
00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:56.280
to walk again, But I imagine it's pretty bad.

878
00:57:56.800 --> 00:58:01.039
Great, No, I mean not in everything here sucks except

879
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:05.800
it like he lived. Yeah, huh okay. I don't know

880
00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:10.159
what he's made of, but it seems honestly almost reasonable

881
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:13.199
to speculate that it might not be from this planet.

882
00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:15.320
It's gargantuine balls.

883
00:58:16.119 --> 00:58:18.960
He's just made of gargantuine balls.

884
00:58:20.039 --> 00:58:26.840
That's it. As someone who cares so little about Actually no.

885
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:29.239
You know what's funny though, is because the thing is

886
00:58:29.239 --> 00:58:32.639
is like, vaginas are tougher than balls, right, So he's

887
00:58:32.719 --> 00:58:34.719
clearly made of.

888
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:45.400
The toughest, finest pussy alone. God please edit carefully, my friends. Okay. Also,

889
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:49.679
like many of the Reddit commenters in this same thread,

890
00:58:50.960 --> 00:58:57.000
I too wish him free drinks forever, seriously, in perpetuity.

891
00:58:59.559 --> 00:59:06.599
His family immediately recognized there would be pretty significant medical

892
00:59:06.639 --> 00:59:10.679
bills related to his recovery. When they set up a

893
00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:15.519
GoFundMe to accept donations. It received over six hundred and

894
00:59:15.559 --> 00:59:19.440
fifty thousand dollars by the end of that first day.

895
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:25.400
The first day, Wow, as it should. He's a fucking hero.

896
00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:30.679
He was released from the hospital on October seventh. By

897
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:36.239
October seventeenth, just ten days later, reporting indicated the total

898
00:59:36.280 --> 00:59:40.840
of donations had risen to over eight hundred thousand dollars.

899
00:59:41.960 --> 00:59:49.199
In twenty sixteen, Chris was a Citizen Honors awardee, being

900
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:54.159
recognized for a single active heroism by the Congressional Medal

901
00:59:54.199 --> 00:59:58.039
of Honor Society. Wow, which I think probably is a

902
00:59:58.039 --> 01:00:01.480
pretty big deal. I'm sure it meant a lot to him.

903
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:06.119
Whatever feelings were so gross. I think it's important that

904
01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:11.679
storytelling doesn't just focus on the doom and gloom or

905
01:00:11.719 --> 01:00:15.119
the gruesome details. I felt really good to share parts

906
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:17.559
of the story that feel like the silver lining in

907
01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:18.679
the face of tragedy.

908
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:23.159
Yeah, because there's not always that there. Yeah, like there's

909
01:00:23.239 --> 01:00:23.639
really not.

910
01:00:24.559 --> 01:00:29.519
However, I also think that I'd be incredibly remiss if

911
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:35.039
I didn't end on another equally important note. On October first,

912
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:41.480
twenty fifteen, Christopher Sean Harper Mercer, whose name was intentionally

913
01:00:41.559 --> 01:00:45.480
redacted from many statements provided by law enforcement about his

914
01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:53.000
truly hideous, an unforgivably violent crime, left nine victims dead

915
01:00:53.079 --> 01:00:57.440
in his wake. Eight if the victims died at the campus,

916
01:00:58.239 --> 01:01:02.159
while the ninth was sadly declared at the Mercy Medical

917
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:06.800
Center following the deadly shooting. He also died that day

918
01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:11.760
of a self inflicted gunshot wound. His awful mental health

919
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:17.079
may have played a part in him perpetrating this tragedy. He, however,

920
01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:22.280
does not belong listed amongst the victims. It almost seems

921
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:26.360
trite to say that there were also numerous other victims

922
01:01:26.559 --> 01:01:31.159
left wounded and otherwise traumatized. The victims who died that

923
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:37.280
day ranged in age from eighteen to sixty seven. Wow,

924
01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:42.079
and included students as well as staff. And I'm really

925
01:01:42.119 --> 01:01:45.960
sorry if I don't pronounce. He's right. I don't even

926
01:01:46.039 --> 01:01:49.840
know that. I would assume that local news coverage necessarily

927
01:01:50.559 --> 01:01:53.159
was able to get in touch with people that were

928
01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:56.920
able to verify pronunciation. So I'm just going to do

929
01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:00.519
my best and know that we don't take those things slightly.

930
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:10.400
Their names are Laurence Levine, Lucero alcras Quinn, Glenn Cooper,

931
01:02:11.519 --> 01:02:20.320
lucas Ibel, Jason Dale Johnson, Trevin Taylor, On Spach, Rebecca

932
01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:29.639
Ann Carnes, Kim Saltmarsh Beats, and Serena don Moore, who

933
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:34.840
all died in the shooting among the wounded. And it's

934
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.840
possible that there are a great deal more. These are

935
01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:43.960
those that were published that I could find. Christopher Mintz,

936
01:02:44.960 --> 01:02:54.480
Julie Woodward, Amber McMurtry, Tracy Hugh, Anastagia Boylan Tenaya, Laverne

937
01:02:55.280 --> 01:03:01.400
Rand McGowan, and Cheyenne Fitzgerald. Y'all go and make me

938
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:05.159
lose an eyelash. Oh yeah, you just made it worse too,

939
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:05.760
did I?

940
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:06.519
Yeah?

941
01:03:06.559 --> 01:03:10.000
Oh? Is it bad? It's falling? Fuck it up it's

942
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:16.679
flying off enough of the ship. Please edit this out. Well,

943
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:21.039
we'll come back with fresh eyelashes for Darryl after we

944
01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:22.199
maybe eat some food.

945
01:03:23.239 --> 01:03:26.199
I think it's very poetic that you cried off your

946
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:27.760
lashes during this episode.

947
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:33.239
Oh stop make me look beautiful at all times. That

948
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:34.480
is a direct command.

949
01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:35.960
Okay, cover your eyes.

950
01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:39.719
Okay, should we go to Tarot, Yeah, yeah, let's go

951
01:03:39.760 --> 01:03:44.639
fix your lashes, have a snack, dry our eyes. I

952
01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:47.159
feel like I'm a robot because I'm not crying, but

953
01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:48.480
I'm like bawling in turn.

954
01:03:48.840 --> 01:03:53.280
But like I mean, I did the dumb thing, which

955
01:03:53.519 --> 01:03:57.599
was as I have known for years, is to to

956
01:03:57.760 --> 01:04:01.320
like let yourself feel the feelings and then and then

957
01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:02.159
this happens.

958
01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:07.039
Oh man, Okay, well I'm gonna pee in silently cry

959
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:08.199
in the bathroom by myself.

960
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:19.559
Okay, I'll see you at Tero. Holy Rock.

961
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:27.719
It's aggressive, she says. Oh, it's it of swords and reverse.

962
01:04:29.360 --> 01:04:33.599
Oh the cat die. It a little critter underneath it,

963
01:04:34.400 --> 01:04:36.519
hiding in the shadow. Oh, it's like hiding in the

964
01:04:36.559 --> 01:04:39.679
shadows like I'm sure a lot of people were trying

965
01:04:39.719 --> 01:04:42.360
to fucking hide from this hawk in the sky.

966
01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:46.440
That's kind of eerie imagery. I'm just gonna say that

967
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:55.000
dry in terms of like I'm I try. I was

968
01:04:55.119 --> 01:04:59.000
just going to say, very evocative imagery. Yeah.

969
01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:01.360
It is interesting though, because like, okay, first let me

970
01:05:01.360 --> 01:05:02.960
get this out of my brain before I forget. So

971
01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:09.320
cactus is like pokey crappy like the story Folks and jasses.

972
01:05:10.159 --> 01:05:12.119
But then there's like a flower at the top of

973
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:15.480
this cactus. So that's like the silver lining you were

974
01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:18.159
talking about, like the pretty I know some of the

975
01:05:18.199 --> 01:05:20.039
good things that were in the story.

976
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:23.880
Yeah, which, honestly, the good things are just that the

977
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:30.119
guy who was shot seven times lived, right, But that's

978
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:34.559
like a really good I mean great, but also like

979
01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:37.599
what it took to get us to a good thing.

980
01:05:37.880 --> 01:05:43.000
Yeah, and the dog lives and satisfy is to like

981
01:05:43.360 --> 01:05:46.239
have that dog live, and it's like sole purpose for

982
01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:48.039
living is now gone.

983
01:05:48.960 --> 01:05:52.159
I know what that broke my heart?

984
01:05:52.760 --> 01:05:55.760
Oh it reminds me of like the dogs who like

985
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:57.119
lay on their owner's grave.

986
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:06.079
Yes, yes, yes, okay, So terro terro is I think

987
01:06:06.239 --> 01:06:13.000
traditionally supposed to cheer us up. So here we go, okay,

988
01:06:13.239 --> 01:06:25.119
aid of sorts. Our keywords are entrapment, self, undoing, fear, helplessness, bondage, denial,

989
01:06:25.320 --> 01:06:30.840
and deception, all of it. Yeah. That feels about the bondage.

990
01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:33.719
I mean I think you, I think you have to

991
01:06:33.719 --> 01:06:38.079
think of it in the context of being just bound

992
01:06:38.400 --> 01:06:40.119
to this.

993
01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:43.760
Situation or like the entrapment kind of or like the

994
01:06:43.840 --> 01:06:45.079
self entrapment.

995
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:49.880
Yeah. In many decks, the aid of swords shows a

996
01:06:49.920 --> 01:06:56.119
person bound and blindfolded, ringed by a prison of sorts. Wow,

997
01:06:56.960 --> 01:07:03.000
you should have gone to prison well, because swords represent

998
01:07:03.159 --> 01:07:10.800
thoughts and beliefs. Wow, this card says you've created your

999
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:15.360
own prison with your ideas and only you can free yourself.

1000
01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.599
What was I saying earlier about look at yourself and

1001
01:07:18.639 --> 01:07:20.000
why you don't have any friends?

1002
01:07:20.400 --> 01:07:25.519
And maybe I mean in the context of this particular

1003
01:07:25.599 --> 01:07:30.000
person and this case, the part that really kind of

1004
01:07:30.039 --> 01:07:34.000
grabs me is only you can free yourself.

1005
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:40.159
Oh and he shot himself too, Yeah yeah, but he

1006
01:07:40.239 --> 01:07:42.280
also could have freed himself away before that.

1007
01:07:43.039 --> 01:07:48.679
Definitely. Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Famously, at least

1008
01:07:48.679 --> 01:07:56.840
famously in my household, there's a saying life's all about choices.

1009
01:07:58.599 --> 01:08:02.599
That was a choice, A couple of them, A few,

1010
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:09.159
I would say, a series of choices feels accurate. To

1011
01:08:09.280 --> 01:08:12.840
break through the barrier you've built, you must change the

1012
01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:17.960
way you see and do things. Sometimes this means rejecting

1013
01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:22.840
social norms or going against the status quo. You also

1014
01:08:22.920 --> 01:08:26.239
need to get focused and get moving. Perhaps you have

1015
01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.640
your head in the clouds, said was somewhere. The reverse

1016
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:33.920
eight warns you to get your affairs in order or

1017
01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:39.439
the situation could worsen, which I feel like, in the

1018
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:44.600
most opposite of ways, applies to both the perpetrator and

1019
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:48.439
then also at the same time, I feel like it

1020
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:53.720
applies to the hero of the day. Yeah, because it's

1021
01:08:53.760 --> 01:08:59.000
sort of like he sprang into action because it's like,

1022
01:08:59.199 --> 01:09:02.359
I don't want this to go worse. Oh yeah, really

1023
01:09:02.399 --> 01:09:07.079
approaching this like I mean like a one man in

1024
01:09:07.880 --> 01:09:13.199
at least that initial response, like a one man military response.

1025
01:09:14.079 --> 01:09:19.720
And obviously we have, you know, we've expressed complicated feelings

1026
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:26.279
about guns, the military, law enforcement, a whole host of things. Really,

1027
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:30.840
but I mean, there's no two ways about it. This

1028
01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:36.159
is someone who did an incredibly heroic thing. Okay, I'm

1029
01:09:36.159 --> 01:09:39.119
going to get to the rest here. In a reading

1030
01:09:39.159 --> 01:09:43.239
about money, this card says you may not be dealing

1031
01:09:43.279 --> 01:09:48.039
forthrightly with a financial problem or probably any problem forever

1032
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:52.039
and ever. Amen. If you've been putting off paying your taxes,

1033
01:09:52.079 --> 01:09:55.159
for example, Okay, well now I feel personally targeted.

1034
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:57.279
Okay, come on, I get this. Every tax season we

1035
01:09:57.319 --> 01:10:01.319
pull this fucking card. We're busy, just did those last year?

1036
01:10:02.600 --> 01:10:05.039
Where to god we did those like a month ago?

1037
01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:10.159
Or settling a legal matter, take care of it promptly

1038
01:10:10.279 --> 01:10:15.720
to avoid more trouble. Sometimes this eight indicates bad advice

1039
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:19.439
or deception four chan, anyone I was going.

1040
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:24.079
To say, the bad advice is probably all the forums. Yes, yeah.

1041
01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:27.760
If the reading is about your job, the reverse eight

1042
01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:32.800
tells you to stop playing the victim. You may feel persecuted, trapped,

1043
01:10:33.199 --> 01:10:37.359
or limited in your work, but you must take responsibility

1044
01:10:37.479 --> 01:10:41.079
for where you're at and do something about it. No

1045
01:10:41.119 --> 01:10:44.199
one was him six with me. I mean, that's not

1046
01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:49.520
technically his desired profession, as I understand it, But I

1047
01:10:49.560 --> 01:10:53.680
do think sometimes, you know, with the bullets, we can

1048
01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:58.880
kind of take the overarching lessons and apply them where

1049
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:00.000
they feel applicable.

1050
01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:01.199
Wait read it again?

1051
01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:01.880
Am I dumb?

1052
01:11:01.920 --> 01:11:03.159
Did I like not even hear you?

1053
01:11:03.279 --> 01:11:03.439
Right?

1054
01:11:04.079 --> 01:11:04.199
No?

1055
01:11:04.199 --> 01:11:07.920
No, no, no, you heard it. You just interpreted. You

1056
01:11:08.039 --> 01:11:10.439
just interpreted, You applied it where it was needed. Okay,

1057
01:11:10.479 --> 01:11:12.760
let me hear it again, just in case. If the

1058
01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:16.199
reading is about your job, the reverse eight tells you

1059
01:11:16.239 --> 01:11:17.640
to stop playing the victim.

1060
01:11:17.800 --> 01:11:18.680
Stop playing the victim.

1061
01:11:18.720 --> 01:11:21.800
Okay, yeah, yeah, so I mean it's all just about

1062
01:11:22.279 --> 01:11:27.239
in general. Yes, in a reading about love, you may

1063
01:11:27.319 --> 01:11:31.079
feel tied to a person, perhaps because you're afraid to

1064
01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:34.319
be alone or unwilling to support yourself.

1065
01:11:34.640 --> 01:11:35.640
I feel like his mom.

1066
01:11:36.119 --> 01:11:39.119
I mean, not love obviously in a well we don't know,

1067
01:11:39.159 --> 01:11:41.600
but I mean hopefully not a romantic way, but in

1068
01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:44.720
a romantic sense per se, but family love.

1069
01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.399
Take this and apply it to whoever in the story.

1070
01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:51.800
You feel like this card can mean you're not facing

1071
01:11:51.880 --> 01:11:55.000
up to what's really going on personally. I think this

1072
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:58.199
applies to more than one person. If you've been listening

1073
01:11:58.239 --> 01:12:01.960
to someone else's advice, the time has come to listen

1074
01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:05.880
to your inner guidance, which I feel like applies to

1075
01:12:06.000 --> 01:12:11.960
very few people in this story. Okay, extra excerpt, and

1076
01:12:12.039 --> 01:12:17.039
I will say this is Franklin D. Roosevelt from his

1077
01:12:17.239 --> 01:12:22.319
first inaugural address. Friend of the Pod, friend of the pot,

1078
01:12:22.840 --> 01:12:26.600
former friend of the Pod. Well, I don't know. I mean,

1079
01:12:27.199 --> 01:12:28.520
we have complicated.

1080
01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:30.520
Feelings about all the presidents. Okay, it's just it is

1081
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:31.000
what it is.

1082
01:12:31.159 --> 01:12:33.880
Honestly, I think we need to just take a page

1083
01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:37.000
out of the Tennis book and just start calling them

1084
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:41.800
listeners of the pod. Okay, yeah, famously listener of the pod.

1085
01:12:42.560 --> 01:12:46.399
The only thing we have to fear is fear. It's

1086
01:12:46.399 --> 01:12:49.720
so damn it's kind of like true.

1087
01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:52.279
And you even in the sense that obviously, like these

1088
01:12:52.319 --> 01:12:56.159
people were scared, right, but they were scared of a

1089
01:12:56.520 --> 01:13:02.119
like scared man, you know, like he was like fear. Yes, racist,

1090
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:03.520
Like that's what I think.

1091
01:13:03.560 --> 01:13:07.720
All those people are just a very small person, yeah,

1092
01:13:07.760 --> 01:13:12.760
a very small person. But I also my initial interpretation

1093
01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:17.039
of this immediately upon reading this, I just got I

1094
01:13:17.039 --> 01:13:19.960
got Chris, I think so too. Yeah, for sure, He's like,

1095
01:13:20.399 --> 01:13:23.640
the only thing that I'm afraid of is being so

1096
01:13:23.760 --> 01:13:28.000
afraid that I will not act. And I mean, this

1097
01:13:28.199 --> 01:13:32.560
is an incredible situation. This is I mean, I mean

1098
01:13:32.680 --> 01:13:38.840
truly a situation that most people hopefully are never put in.

1099
01:13:39.880 --> 01:13:42.439
That's the hope, that's the hope that you should go

1100
01:13:42.560 --> 01:13:47.880
your entire life and never be faced with a situation

1101
01:13:48.119 --> 01:13:53.600
like this. We live in one of the arguably wealthiest

1102
01:13:53.800 --> 01:13:57.239
countries in the world, and there is there's no reason

1103
01:13:57.279 --> 01:14:00.159
that anyone in the world, and wealth should have nothing

1104
01:14:00.159 --> 01:14:03.880
to do with that. I feel sort of guilty for

1105
01:14:04.600 --> 01:14:07.720
conflating that, like, oh, we're one of the wealthiest countries

1106
01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:11.039
in the world. Why is this happening here? Because ultimately

1107
01:14:11.079 --> 01:14:14.840
that has it should have no impact. That these are

1108
01:14:14.920 --> 01:14:21.279
just situations that in modern civilized society anywhere on the

1109
01:14:21.319 --> 01:14:24.079
face of God's green Earth at this point, that that

1110
01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:27.880
people should have this just should not this should not

1111
01:14:28.159 --> 01:14:30.359
be so common, right, Well.

1112
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:31.880
I feel like the thing is is that we don't

1113
01:14:31.920 --> 01:14:36.239
live in a fucking civilized society, right is it civilized?

1114
01:14:36.279 --> 01:14:37.520
Look at it? Like, are we?

1115
01:14:37.880 --> 01:14:40.720
I mean, the rest of the world is living in

1116
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:44.119
a civilized society to some degree. I don't know if

1117
01:14:44.199 --> 01:14:49.760
anybody is honestly like yeah, I mean, God, I feel

1118
01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:50.880
like you really have to wonder.

1119
01:14:51.159 --> 01:14:53.800
It's all just a bunch of animals living on animal

1120
01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:55.359
instinct at this point.

1121
01:14:55.119 --> 01:14:57.720
And I mean I feel like that maybe has never changed.

1122
01:14:57.760 --> 01:15:01.199
And maybe that's the part where we're sort of maybe

1123
01:15:01.199 --> 01:15:04.079
we're fooling ourselves, but we do.

1124
01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:07.520
Okay, I take that back, because obviously some of us

1125
01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:10.279
are civilized, and some of us save other people's lives

1126
01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:12.920
in you know, the face of danger and risk our

1127
01:15:12.960 --> 01:15:18.039
own right. Those those are the civilized people fighting against

1128
01:15:18.119 --> 01:15:21.720
the uncivilized I mean, people who want to shoot everybody.

1129
01:15:22.119 --> 01:15:22.800
What the fuck?

1130
01:15:24.279 --> 01:15:26.680
It's a tough one to really feel like you have

1131
01:15:27.600 --> 01:15:31.159
the right thing to say. I don't. I mean to

1132
01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:34.439
be fair. I don't know that we've ever made such

1133
01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:38.800
a proclamation. Is we have all the you know, the

1134
01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:40.720
right things to say, We have all the best words.

1135
01:15:40.760 --> 01:15:43.680
We famously have all the wrong words and.

1136
01:15:43.800 --> 01:15:44.640
Nothing to say.

1137
01:15:46.520 --> 01:15:52.079
Yeah. As podcasters, we famously have a lot of very

1138
01:15:52.119 --> 01:15:57.119
nonverbal interactions. Wow, should we go to the little book?

1139
01:15:57.399 --> 01:15:59.560
It's a piut brown squirrel?

1140
01:15:59.640 --> 01:16:05.319
Piu pi u t e. Yeah, hyut piut. That would

1141
01:16:05.319 --> 01:16:17.640
be my interpretation as a okay, piute brown squirrel. Y'all imprisonless? Wow, imprisonless, prisonless.

1142
01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:23.920
It's this imprisonment, powerlessness, trapped, self imposed restrictions and limitations,

1143
01:16:24.000 --> 01:16:27.800
negative thoughts, so pretty much the same. Yeah.

1144
01:16:27.920 --> 01:16:30.800
It had started as a simple foraging trip. The sun

1145
01:16:30.920 --> 01:16:33.479
was high and the ground was hot. The dry air

1146
01:16:33.560 --> 01:16:36.640
felt good on the squirrel's fur as she surfaced from

1147
01:16:36.680 --> 01:16:40.800
the tunnel, but she was in quite a predicament. Careless,

1148
01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:44.560
a moment too long, gnawing on a meaty route had

1149
01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:47.119
exposed her to the hawk. Oh it is a hawk.

1150
01:16:47.159 --> 01:16:50.880
I knew it. M Oh, this is ooh. I'm like

1151
01:16:51.000 --> 01:16:52.600
have chills all over my body.

1152
01:16:52.720 --> 01:16:55.720
Okay, great, because I knew, just like looking at the

1153
01:16:55.760 --> 01:16:59.279
card what was happening. She'd made a mad dash for

1154
01:16:59.359 --> 01:17:04.960
the nearest altar. Practically and paling herself on the cactus's needles,

1155
01:17:04.960 --> 01:17:11.600
she dove into its dubious protection. Pinned down, the raptor circled,

1156
01:17:12.199 --> 01:17:16.960
knowing her exact position. If she bolted, it would reach

1157
01:17:17.000 --> 01:17:20.560
her before she could disappear. Into the nearest tunnel, she

1158
01:17:20.720 --> 01:17:24.680
searched for escape routes in the open sand surrounding her.

1159
01:17:25.600 --> 01:17:29.039
Lack of thought had trapped her here. Maybe she could

1160
01:17:29.079 --> 01:17:30.439
think her way out.

1161
01:17:31.680 --> 01:17:38.079
Let me think of Tracy. Wow, okay, you did say raptor. Correct.

1162
01:17:38.279 --> 01:17:41.079
Yeah, they're talking about the hawk. Uh huh is that

1163
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:41.880
something in the.

1164
01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.800
I just feel like the significance of like think about

1165
01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:51.279
like military because this is X. I mean wow, if

1166
01:17:51.319 --> 01:17:54.800
you can call it that ex military as the perpetrator

1167
01:17:55.159 --> 01:18:00.000
and also a true veteran that you know again, I'm

1168
01:18:00.000 --> 01:18:03.399
I mean, god, I don't want to sound like I'm

1169
01:18:03.439 --> 01:18:09.439
just fawning over but fonn this is like the person

1170
01:18:09.520 --> 01:18:14.359
that's proved to be the hero quite literally and actually

1171
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:18.079
a veteran, someone who has you know, served terms like

1172
01:18:18.239 --> 01:18:24.960
raptor hawk. These are like they're incorporated into the nomenclature

1173
01:18:25.199 --> 01:18:28.760
of the United States military, Like.

1174
01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:31.520
I thought you were thinking of like a raptor as

1175
01:18:31.560 --> 01:18:33.880
like a literal dynostoric kind of.

1176
01:18:34.359 --> 01:18:35.039
I mean, we.

1177
01:18:35.000 --> 01:18:37.039
Don't know, but like in the movies, they're kind of

1178
01:18:37.079 --> 01:18:38.399
like erratic and like.

1179
01:18:38.880 --> 01:18:41.600
Fast, and I mean that's where my head first went

1180
01:18:41.720 --> 01:18:47.279
because I kind of listen, even though I am a

1181
01:18:47.399 --> 01:18:51.439
super adorable and obviously still a relatable young woman of

1182
01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:56.920
a mere twenty nine, I do remember Jurassic Park, and

1183
01:18:57.359 --> 01:19:00.319
that is of course first and foremost, like.

1184
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:03.800
The eyes, like, oh my gosh.

1185
01:19:03.359 --> 01:19:08.000
Yeah, I don't think I've showed you a picture of

1186
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:11.560
the perpetrator, have I? I sent you some other photos

1187
01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:14.520
related to this. You showed me the one where his

1188
01:19:14.640 --> 01:19:18.760
face wasn't showing. Yeah, okay, so that's I mean, technically

1189
01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:21.079
you have seen a picture of him.

1190
01:19:21.319 --> 01:19:26.479
But okay, gosh, this is just so crazy though, Like

1191
01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:31.359
someone is literally hiding like in the shadows, being hunted

1192
01:19:32.119 --> 01:19:35.439
and afraid to run out because they'll be like exposed.

1193
01:19:35.479 --> 01:19:36.560
It's just crazy.

1194
01:19:36.760 --> 01:19:43.199
I mean so like it works both literally and metaphorically.

1195
01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:49.479
I'm going to air drop you. This was screenshotted from

1196
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:56.520
last from the past. His MySpace moist space sounded like

1197
01:19:56.560 --> 01:20:02.399
you're about to say moist space, moist moisty. O, my

1198
01:20:02.680 --> 01:20:03.920
space is so moist.

1199
01:20:04.159 --> 01:20:08.760
Oh okay, I know this now seeing the seeing his photo,

1200
01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:13.000
I remember this. Yeah, I don't know why, like just

1201
01:20:13.000 --> 01:20:14.920
that one in the red shirt, the photo in the

1202
01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:16.439
red shirt, Like I remember.

1203
01:20:16.119 --> 01:20:19.520
That phot No, I mean that was used in a

1204
01:20:19.640 --> 01:20:24.159
lot of the coverage about about this case. He was

1205
01:20:24.279 --> 01:20:29.159
also very big supporter of the IRA, which.

1206
01:20:30.199 --> 01:20:37.800
I see that what is that Irish Republican Army.

1207
01:20:38.239 --> 01:20:42.279
Yeah, it's fun. That is a whole less can of

1208
01:20:42.319 --> 01:20:47.479
worms to uh. I'd prefer not to comment on the

1209
01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:54.720
IRA as a significantly Irish person of listen that it

1210
01:20:54.800 --> 01:20:59.319
may not be popular amongst some Irish folks, but I

1211
01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:02.800
think it's hard to argue that the IRA is not

1212
01:21:03.840 --> 01:21:05.520
a terrorist organization.

1213
01:21:06.520 --> 01:21:06.760
Huh.

1214
01:21:07.560 --> 01:21:10.399
They're responsible for a lot of the car bombings during

1215
01:21:10.520 --> 01:21:14.720
the troubles. I mean, ultimately, as far as I know,

1216
01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:19.439
all of all of the bombings in in Ireland during

1217
01:21:19.479 --> 01:21:20.600
that period.

1218
01:21:21.159 --> 01:21:23.800
Is that where the Irish car bomb comes from? Yes,

1219
01:21:24.119 --> 01:21:29.720
let's fucked up. Yes, yes see I didn't know that, Okay.

1220
01:21:29.439 --> 01:21:30.880
I just thought it was a fun drink.

1221
01:21:31.439 --> 01:21:34.239
Yeah, no it is. It's a very it's a very

1222
01:21:34.279 --> 01:21:36.000
fun drink. I just did a shit ton of them

1223
01:21:36.039 --> 01:21:39.239
and got really sedate on Saan Potric's day. Yeah, you

1224
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:42.920
know most people do. Yeah, when in Dublin.

1225
01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:46.520
We should rename it, rename it something better, petition to

1226
01:21:46.600 --> 01:21:48.319
rename the Irish carbomb.

1227
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:53.520
Honestly, I will say the Irish car bomb as a

1228
01:21:53.560 --> 01:21:58.359
cocktail is to the human body what an actual Irish

1229
01:21:58.439 --> 01:22:01.600
car bomb is to the human body.

1230
01:22:02.000 --> 01:22:03.800
We have a TikTok of us doing them.

1231
01:22:03.840 --> 01:22:10.680
I think we should probably include it, honestly. Okay, we

1232
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:12.840
did it really wrong, Like it was like we knew

1233
01:22:12.880 --> 01:22:13.880
we were doing it wrong.

1234
01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:15.800
So but it was just funny.

1235
01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:20.119
I mean, they weren't. They weren't. I can't remember what

1236
01:22:20.239 --> 01:22:22.319
we did wrong, but they weren't like.

1237
01:22:22.560 --> 01:22:26.520
Oh we put they were the wrong out of order

1238
01:22:27.159 --> 01:22:29.720
or no. But it was like the wrong kind of glass.

1239
01:22:29.720 --> 01:22:32.159
And I think we did a whole beer instead of

1240
01:22:32.159 --> 01:22:33.960
you're supposed to do like half a beer.

1241
01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:37.159
Most people don't do a half or like people. I

1242
01:22:37.199 --> 01:22:39.479
think it's like a third of a beer. Yeah, people

1243
01:22:39.479 --> 01:22:39.960
don't do that.

1244
01:22:40.359 --> 01:22:43.720
We poured whole beers, but we were being funny.

1245
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:47.159
Yeah, have a creepiest day.

1246
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:49.920
See you next Tuesday.

1247
01:22:51.159 --> 01:22:53.399
I can't say anything else because we said a lot

1248
01:22:53.479 --> 01:22:54.760
of things off Mike.

1249
01:22:54.600 --> 01:22:56.600
That guns are bad.

1250
01:22:56.680 --> 01:23:08.159
Okay, it's been quite the day. Okay, he didn't really die, right, continuing, Okay,

1251
01:23:08.239 --> 01:23:12.000
were you faking out? I wouldn't say it was faking.

1252
01:23:13.479 --> 01:23:16.359
I feel like if you bought the performance, Like, wasn't

1253
01:23:16.399 --> 01:23:16.960
it real to you?

1254
01:23:17.079 --> 01:23:22.680
It was alive, bitch, Cutie Petuti is alive, bitch, bitch.

1255
01:23:23.319 --> 01:23:26.479
Okay, but I need, I need. I didn't say he

1256
01:23:26.640 --> 01:23:28.800
was alive. I didn't say he was alive.

1257
01:23:28.920 --> 01:23:29.479
God damn it.

1258
01:23:29.560 --> 01:23:32.319
Maybe he just survived long enough so that he didn't

1259
01:23:32.359 --> 01:23:33.520
die onn Sin's birthday.

1260
01:23:33.880 --> 01:23:36.199
I hate all of you right now. I hate you.

1261
01:23:36.279 --> 01:23:38.920
I hear you. You hate every fiber of my being.

1262
01:23:38.960 --> 01:23:42.920
And that's fair, that's honestly, I'll say that's fair. Okay.

1263
01:23:43.039 --> 01:23:46.960
I was going to marry him, Okay, I mean, if

1264
01:23:47.000 --> 01:23:49.399
I wasn't already married to it Chris, that would be

1265
01:23:49.520 --> 01:23:53.199
you know okay, okay, real okay. Back to the episode,

1266
01:23:53.439 --> 01:23:54.439
Real talk though,