Nightmare After Christmas - The Oldest Unsolved Kidnapping in Tacoma History

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From that point on, a nightmarish scenario unfolded as the intruder strode into the home,

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trailing the frightened little Charles Mattson.

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Once he had made his entrance into the living room, he shouted, "Don't you kids try

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anything?

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Because I have a bulletproof vest on."

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As he demanded money, which is like, "Okay, but they don't have guns."

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This is their packin'.

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Yeah.

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, creepy people.

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Hello!

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But if you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides,

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where we chat about true crime, spooky things, paranormal, weird stuff, witchy stuff,

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kind of whatever really floats our boat in the moment.

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But from the Pacific Northwest, that's kind of the caveat, I guess.

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It's the vibe.

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I don't know.

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Yeah, that's the vibe.

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We're all about the vibes today.

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Do you know what else floats our boat and vibes are other parts?

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Oh boy.

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I didn't know where I was going with that.

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But I knew that I was going to say we do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for

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a little deeper insight into our topic.

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That's true.

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It is a long one.

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And it's pretty sad.

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So long.

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That's your vibe.

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I know.

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I'm really, I've caught a vibe recently.

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Only my bridal era is over.

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I'm just really back in like the sad.

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Sad.

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I'm in my feelings and they are sad.

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Great.

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Yeah.

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So that's something to like forward do.

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We can drink about it.

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Yeah, we're going to drink about it.

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Okay.

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Announcements?

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PNW.

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Fest?

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Yeah.

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True crime fest northwest.

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Thank you.

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I like that it rhymes.

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That helps me remember it.

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So that's Friday, August 30th, Saturday, the 31st and Sunday, September.

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So 3 whole days?

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You have to be there for three whole days.

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Yeah.

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It's actually kind of half days on Friday and Sunday, but yeah.

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Woo, half day.

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It's like school.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We're going to half day.

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Much funner than school.

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I'm not complaining about being there.

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Because we haven't done a lot of festival.

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We came off a year of like full of festivals and then this year.

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Yeah.

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We hit like everything.

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And then this year, I mean, I guess we kind of had like this other festival that we were

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sort of supposed to go to.

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I was just comparing my wedding to a festival.

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Oh, okay.

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I was like, what?

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Did we go to one and I can't remember what it was.

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No, it just, no, if anything like planning for the wedding and everything was like, I feel

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like it was the same level of work as when we did like, I don't know, I think we did like

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four or five festivals the year before.

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It was the event of the year.

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Yeah.

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Woo.

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It was.

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It was so fun.

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We'll talk about it later.

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Yeah.

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We'll talk about it eventually.

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I'm like, I'm ready to be done with you.

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You're over.

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I'm so over you.

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Now I wish I could go back and spend a little more time there, but it goes by quick.

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Everyone says it and I'm like, okay, we go to, but it does.

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Yeah.

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But come see us at True Crime Fest northwest.

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It's going to be here in Portland.

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There's lots of great stuff going on at it.

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There's a ton of different speakers.

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Yeah, I'm excited and it looks like they're planning to do a drag bingo on Sunday.

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Oh, what?

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So drag bingo.

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What is that?

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I don't know, man, but I'm in you.

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Like drag queen bingo?

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Yeah, I think so.

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No shit.

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Yeah.

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Because I got really excited when you said drag and I was like, that can't be what she

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means.

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And I was like, no, but like, is it though?

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Oh, that's what she means.

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So excited.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we have a discount code still.

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We do.

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In the notes, I think.

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Yeah, we'll put it in the notes.

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I think it's HAUNTS10.

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Don't quote me on that.

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It'll be in the notes.

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Find it in the notes.

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Show notes.

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Go to the notes.

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Episode description.

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Yeah.

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Then there's actually a self-defense class.

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It looks like on the Friday night too.

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I'm going to do that so bad.

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All programming is free.

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So for that.

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So that's a really awesome opportunity.

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I really want to take, I think I've said it before.

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I want to take self-defense like regularly because you have to keep up on it.

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Yeah, I heard for sure.

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You like forget what to do.

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Yeah.

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Well, I think now that I'm no longer planning the festival of the year, AKA my wedding, I

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think I probably, I could totally take up Krav Maga, right?

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Like what else am I doing besides working full time this podcast, which is another full

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time job in like feeding and clothing and bathing myself.

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Right.

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I just feel like it's time.

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Yeah.

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Enough excuses.

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I know.

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It'll turn do it.

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Yeah, just work.

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Yeah.

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You just got to work.

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Now, nobody wants to work anymore.

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Any who's all, I think that's all we really have for announcements.

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I just want to make sure we said something about that.

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It's at the time of recording this, just a couple of weeks around the corner.

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So it's real.

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It's coming.

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It's going to happen.

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It's going to come and go so fast.

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And before you know it, we'll be like, where did it go?

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Exactly.

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All right.

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Well, I think we've drugged this out pretty much as long as we can.

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Yeah.

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We should probably get into it.

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Okay.

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All right.

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The Mattson Family Home in the Point Defines Park District of Tacoma was far from

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Meager at a sprawling 6,400 square feet.

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It's a pretty big house.

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That is a huge house.

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It's a real big house.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I don't want to clean that house.

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No.

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No.

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It was located at 4605 North Verde Street having been built in the mid 1920s in what I

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must assume was a pretty well-to-do neighborhood.

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I actually don't need to assume if you live in a community where they are building.

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That's like a manor.

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Yeah.

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That's huge.

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It's not the only one.

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Yeah.

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From the back of the home, their properties, Lawn, led to what sounds like almost like a park

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or like a community space that only Leslie Knope, could dare to dream up.

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Oh, sounds pretty cool.

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I don't get the reference.

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Oh my God.

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I mean, I know it's parks and rec.

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Yeah.

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Because Leslie Knope, is like the just most effervescent public servant and she works in the

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parks department, but she goes on to run for office and she's just all about doing all

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the things for Pawnee.

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Oh, it's adorable.

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So sweet.

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It's adorable.

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She also has a massive crush on Joe Biden.

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It's real weird.

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It's real weird.

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I don't know.

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I mean, did it, did it not?

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He didn't age-

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Sorry, let's keep going.

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Moving a lot.

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Moving a lot.

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Moving a lot.

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And I know we're not supposed to say spirit animal anymore, but if yours is a fictional white lady,

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is that still allowed?

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Just asking for a friend.

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I don't know.

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Someone tell us if you don't like it.

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Yeah.

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I feel it.

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I mean, it's probably fine.

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And I feel like it's fine.

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I think the majority of our audience would be like, why aren't you supposed to say that?

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I think our audience knows exactly why you're not supposed to say spirit animal.

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Okay, maybe half.

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Yeah.

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If our audience wouldn't have to.

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It's half sees maybe.

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Source material described it as a path led down to a steep 300 foot terrace embankment to

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a picnic ground and swimming pool railroad tracks, rust in way, and then the waterfront crowded

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with docks and boat houses.

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So, pretty fancy.

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I'm concerned about the railroad tracks being right in the middle of a park.

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I don't know if it's in the middle of the park.

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I'm not totally clear on that piece of the layout, but I mean, they're at the center of all

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the industry and all the happenings and the goings-ons and such.

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Yeah.

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The patriarch of the family was a well-known man in the local area as a respected physician.

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Daddy's a doctor.

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Dr. Daddy.

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Dr. Daddy.

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Oh.

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[laughs]

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Though he graduated from medical school at the University of Pennsylvania, he had played

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football at the University of Washington for three years in the early 1900s.

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And there are picks.

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So we know that did happen.

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Ooh.

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Like old school football picks.

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Yeah.

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Cute.

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Old-timey football uniforms with leather helmets.

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So they have leather helmets?

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I don't think at least not in the pictures, but they look like they're wearing the woleist,

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scratchiest clothing.

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And I'm like, I wouldn't wear that even if I wasn't sportsing.

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But if you have long johns on under.

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Oh, God.

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I can't.

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I can't.

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This dude is checking boxes like he was preparing for his old-timey Tinder profile though.

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Ooh.

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Yeah.

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He's kind of a catch.

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Did you make one for him?

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Because I want to see it.

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I did.

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Can we do that?

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I think we should mock one up.

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I think that'd be great.

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A tailored if you also have free time.

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Yeah.

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I think that'd be so funny.

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Daddy, doctor.

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Doctor, daddy.

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His Tinder profile.

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Okay.

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Uh, buh buh buh.

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Are there pictures of him holding a fish?

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Oh, my God.

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I don't think so.

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I know.

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I know.

272
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,120
I mean, honestly, how will he ever find love on Tinder without?

273
00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,280
No one's going to swipe whatever way you swipe.

274
00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,280
Yeah, which, you know, the swiping.

275
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,760
I literally don't know which way it is.

276
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:14,760
I don't know.

277
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:15,760
I don't know.

278
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:16,760
That's okay.

279
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:17,760
That's fine.

280
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:18,760
I probably will never need to know.

281
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:19,760
Yeah.

282
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:25,160
The internet is a dangerous place.

283
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:29,680
Their live Christmas tree and outdoor light display was reported to have been recognized

284
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:32,680
by the Tacoma Garden Club.

285
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:33,680
But I'd wager.

286
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:37,920
It would take some serious digging to find any reporting on that topic because I couldn't

287
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:38,920
find it.

288
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,240
Oh, so they weren't on the, like, PNW lights, Christmas lights.

289
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:45,240
I know.

290
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:46,240
Apple.

291
00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,240
No.

292
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:48,240
Dang it.

293
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:49,240
Yeah.

294
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,560
No, they weren't still doing their whole thing with the Christmas tree in the light show when

295
00:11:54,560 --> 00:12:02,400
that was established in the mid 2000s, I believe.

296
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,920
But obviously, I haven't made it a habit to simply bring you all the wandering diatribe's

297
00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,720
about idyllic families.

298
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,720
Come.

299
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,720
Univis.

300
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,240
Clearly something not too idyllic is probably about to happen.

301
00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:20,240
Come.

302
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,560
You knew this.

303
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:26,840
And if that's what you were thinking, you'd be right.

304
00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:28,840
Because you knew this.

305
00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,240
I don't want to be right.

306
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,240
No.

307
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:37,480
What you couldn't have known is that it would happen just days after Christmas.

308
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,080
Oh, you're a bitch.

309
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,080
I know.

310
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:42,120
You didn't save this one for Christmas.

311
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,320
I was simply the worst.

312
00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:48,360
I mean, it's crazy how many crimes are committed right around Christmas.

313
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:49,360
So.

314
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:50,360
Yeah.

315
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:55,000
No, I was just like, I think I got some other stuff.

316
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,920
I just, I felt like I needed to talk about this case.

317
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,120
And I think we'll get to why I felt like I identified with this so readily.

318
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:09,480
It's funny that you should mention that though, because I said in my notes, next sentence,

319
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:14,240
I might have saved this for that time of year had I come across it at a different time.

320
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,520
But alas, here we are.

321
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,720
As we record this at least, it's Christmas in July.

322
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,280
It is no longer July.

323
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,600
We intended to record this in July.

324
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:25,600
Missed it.

325
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:26,600
Overshot it by a few days.

326
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:27,600
It's fine.

327
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:28,600
Christmas in August.

328
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:29,600
Yeah.

329
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,600
Cheesy.

330
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,600
Sure.

331
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,800
Maybe.

332
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:38,800
But surely by now, we all know that finding some way to present a bit of levity, if not

333
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,400
hope, in these cases is what I strive for.

334
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,000
You're welcome.

335
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,000
Thank you.

336
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,000
Please, sir.

337
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,040
I want some more.

338
00:13:52,040 --> 00:14:00,840
And so it was that on Sunday, December 27, 1936, at roughly 8.45 pm, that the youngest of

339
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:07,800
the three Mattson children, Charles, was enjoying popcorn and root beer in his living

340
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:18,640
room with his brother, William Jr. Billy, age 16, his sister, Muriel, age 14, and her friend

341
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:22,720
from Seattle, Virginia Chatsfield, age 15.

342
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,320
Oh, big city.

343
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:25,320
I know.

344
00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:26,920
Virginia Chatsfield.

345
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:27,920
Chatsfield.

346
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:28,920
Chatsfield.

347
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,840
I'm sorry, Chatsfield.

348
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:32,840
That's a name.

349
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:33,840
Yeah.

350
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,480
I can't think of what I want to put the name.

351
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:37,480
Like a news reporter.

352
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:38,480
Yeah.

353
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:39,480
Yeah.

354
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:40,480
Chatsfield.

355
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,960
She could be a podcaster.

356
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,280
She really could be.

357
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:45,280
Oh, wait.

358
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,720
It's 1936.

359
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,600
Oh, well.

360
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:57,960
As they did so, a masked man armed with a handgun entered their living room.

361
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:02,920
I guess he decided the holidays were officially over.

362
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:08,680
After thoroughly terrorizing the children, that same man would simply pick Charles up and

363
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,880
vanish into the night.

364
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:13,720
What?

365
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:18,960
But not before leaving a ransom note stating his $28,000 demand.

366
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,520
She's an odd number, but whatever.

367
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:22,520
Right.

368
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,720
You can like round up to 30 or 25.

369
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:25,720
Yeah.

370
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:26,720
I don't like it.

371
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:27,720
No.

372
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,200
It's comfortable with, but that's fine.

373
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:31,680
It's, you know, it's his demand.

374
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,680
Maybe 20 eighths is lucky number.

375
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,880
I, you know, maybe who knows?

376
00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:36,880
I don't think it is.

377
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:37,880
It's lucky number.

378
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:48,640
But the virus of nothing more than his youngest child, safe return, Dr. William W. Mattson,

379
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:54,040
would make every attempt to pay that ransom, but to no avail.

380
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:58,400
I'll save you the suspense from this moment forward.

381
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:03,640
This is the oldest unsolved kidnapping case in Tacoma's history.

382
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,720
Holy shit, it's unsolved.

383
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:06,720
Yep.

384
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,000
Yikes.

385
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:16,680
On the surface, surely this seems like another case of a kid from a wealthy family gone missing

386
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,440
and you're not wrong.

387
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,200
It takes me back to the Weyerhaeuser case episodes, though there's a notable difference.

388
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,240
While I didn't examine side by side the account statements of the two households, the Mattson

389
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:38,120
were surely no match compared to the monetary wealth of the Weyerhaeuser's.

390
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,240
The Weyerhaeusers were like titans of industry.

391
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:49,400
This is a wealthy family, but we're talking about, you know, a single,

392
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,840
generation of wealth, essentially.

393
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:57,960
I think it should go without saying, but I'll say it out loud.

394
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:04,240
Every missing person, particularly a child, deserves to be found, regardless of their

395
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:10,480
race, religion, and of course, societal status or their financial means.

396
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:18,080
In some instances, even if you did have bottomless pockets, even that can't bring a loved one

397
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:27,680
back, but it sure doesn't hurt.

398
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:34,200
The night the Charles was kidnapped or kidnaped, as was often reported in the papers at this

399
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,200
time.

400
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,440
Oh, miss like they misspell it.

401
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:37,440
They misspell it.

402
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:38,440
It's kidnapped.

403
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,440
Wow.

404
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,440
How did I do?

405
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:41,440
I hate hers.

406
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:42,440
Who is the editor?

407
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,680
Honestly, I think that was just the comments felling back that I think we looked at this when

408
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:52,040
we did cover the Weyerhaeuser case because it came up and it was whole board.

409
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:53,040
Oh, interesting.

410
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,040
Yeah.

411
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,040
Very strange.

412
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:56,040
I don't know.

413
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:57,040
I don't know.

414
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,040
I just fell back then.

415
00:17:58,040 --> 00:17:59,040
Yeah, it's just old timey.

416
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:00,040
Just old timey stuff.

417
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,480
I don't know, like, go to a dictionary to check the spelling too.

418
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:03,480
Right?

419
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,480
Like, you couldn't just Google it or like, it's true.

420
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:07,880
Obviously, there was an auto correct.

421
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,720
They did not have a Google machine.

422
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:10,720
No.

423
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,760
Honestly, one of these days, I'm going to spiral down that etymological rabbit hole,

424
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:16,760
with eye digress.

425
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,440
You said a big word.

426
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,440
Yep.

427
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:20,920
It's a word word.

428
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:21,920
Word of the day.

429
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:22,920
Sure.

430
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:29,400
That night, the Mattson children had been alone in the family home.

431
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:35,680
Dr. Mattson and his wife, Hazel, had been attending a social function.

432
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:40,880
While they waited, the children could hear someone knocking quite insistently on the

433
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:46,240
French doors at the back of their home that led out to their terrace.

434
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:54,680
So this person came in, like, into their backyard and came to the rear entrance of the home.

435
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:59,320
It was Charles that volunteered to investigate further.

436
00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:04,520
When he returned at a running pace, he told the others that he had spotted a man wearing

437
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,680
a mask.

438
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,160
What was he doing out in their courtyard at this hour, you ask?

439
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:16,640
Well, according to the eyewitness accounts that night, he'd been pounding on their door,

440
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,880
which is already just a bit too much.

441
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,040
But he'd also demanded entry to the home.

442
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,960
That's going to be a no for me, dog.

443
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,960
Right?

444
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:27,960
That's what Charles said.

445
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:28,960
Good.

446
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,600
Yeah, he was like, oh, thanks, though.

447
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:38,200
Lastly, he'd been described as muttering incoherently, which is literally never how I

448
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:44,320
want to describe anyone within close proximity to my home.

449
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:49,240
Even if Charles had been born at night, it wasn't last night.

450
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,200
So clearly, he refused to allow the man entry.

451
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,680
But it turned out that he didn't exactly need permission, as he broke the glass panes

452
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:04,080
of the door with his gun, simply reaching inside to turn the latch himself.

453
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:10,800
And he'd begs the question, like, if that was such an easy option, why are you bothering,

454
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:16,400
giving the inhabitants of the home a heads up by knocking before making entry?

455
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,400
Right.

456
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,520
Like, well, you said he, like, terrorized them for a while, so maybe that was just part of his.

457
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,280
Well, that's once he was inside the home.

458
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,240
Yeah, but maybe that was like part of it.

459
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,600
I can't just wanted to like scare them.

460
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:28,600
I don't know.

461
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,160
Honestly, I was reading this going like, does anybody else think this sounds like kind

462
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:34,680
of some Florida man shit?

463
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,680
Like, what's happening?

464
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,440
I wish, because that would mean he'd probably get caught.

465
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,680
Yeah.

466
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:50,080
From that point on, a nightmarish scenario unfolded as the intruder strode into the home, trailing

467
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,120
the frightened little Charles Mattson.

468
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:58,960
Once he had made his entrance into the living room, he shouted, "Don't you kids try anything?

469
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,200
Because I have a bulletproof vest on as he demanded money."

470
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,080
Which is like, okay, but they don't have guns.

471
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:07,480
Because they're packin'.

472
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,280
Yeah.

473
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,160
The aggressive intruder searched Billy's pockets.

474
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,760
That's the older brother.

475
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:15,240
Good luck, bro.

476
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,000
He's a 1930s teenager.

477
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:21,440
If you expected him to have more than a nickel, then I guess you're even dumber than I assume

478
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:22,440
you look.

479
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,680
Which isn't saying much.

480
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,520
I assume you look very stupid.

481
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,960
What kind of mask was he wearing, do you know?

482
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,360
I'm not sure.

483
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:38,800
I'm assuming it was some sort of like, probably similar to what you are picturing.

484
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,320
I was picturing a Richard Nixon mask.

485
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,920
So, perhaps not that then.

486
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:45,920
I don't know why.

487
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:51,800
Like a ski mask or like a, do they have those back then?

488
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:52,800
Yeah.

489
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,920
I mean, they might have been made of a different material, but yeah, I mean, they certainly

490
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,640
had things like that back then.

491
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,240
Or they could fashion them.

492
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,240
Yeah.

493
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:10,160
I mean, it was very common for them to just take some other, you know, garment or remnant

494
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:11,840
of fabric into my face.

495
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,200
It's got some holes in it.

496
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,920
Like your ghost for Halloween.

497
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,040
Oh, don't ruin that.

498
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,040
I know.

499
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:22,720
I'm sorry.

500
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:28,240
The intruder demanded money and then searched Billy's pockets, finding nothing because he's

501
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,440
a literal child.

502
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,440
He muttered, "A home such as this should be good for some money."

503
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,840
"Woke up."

504
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,720
And Billy replied that they did not keep money in the house.

505
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:46,120
It was then that the intruder snatched little Charlie, stating, "I want you to come with

506
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:47,120
me.

507
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:51,720
You're your father's favorite, so you're worth more money."

508
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,040
How does he know that?

509
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,040
Interesting question.

510
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:03,880
Not a lot of interesting answers in that there are no answers to that question.

511
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,200
Making shit up.

512
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,200
I mean, maybe.

513
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,240
I mean, maybe he'd been casing the house family, whatever.

514
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,240
Who knows?

515
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,800
We see the youngest.

516
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:14,440
Charlie was the youngest.

517
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,800
Some people like the youngest the best.

518
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:19,760
Yeah, the youngest is usually the favorite.

519
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,280
I mean, I find them to be the most annoying, but I might be biased.

520
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:24,280
I agree.

521
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,280
The oldest.

522
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,720
Any who?

523
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,240
We're both older sisters of a younger brother.

524
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,840
I mean, they get less annoying as they get older.

525
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:36,840
They do.

526
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:37,840
That is true.

527
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:38,840
That is true.

528
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:39,840
For my brother, anyway.

529
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:40,840
No, I'm just kidding.

530
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:41,840
Yeah.

531
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,400
But I just feel like that's such a gross thing to say, period.

532
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:52,400
Like, your, his favorite, your worth more money, but also dude, like, his siblings are standing

533
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,400
right there.

534
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:54,400
Yeah.

535
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,720
Like awkward.

536
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,640
But then, I guess that was the least of their problems at this point.

537
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:01,640
Right.

538
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,440
Like, I'm going to look past that.

539
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:10,040
Trying to see the big picture about like my younger brother is literally being kidnapped

540
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,720
before my eyes.

541
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,720
I cannot imagine.

542
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:16,720
Yeah.

543
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,840
No, thank you.

544
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:26,200
He told the children not to call the police or he'd come back and shoot them.

545
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,200
Seems like pretty standard fare for a bad guy.

546
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,200
And this dude was obviously a bad guy.

547
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,200
I mean, yeah, the man, he, yeah, nice guy.

548
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,200
It was the whole thing.

549
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,200
Yeah.

550
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,200
A lot of kids equals bad guy.

551
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,200
Yeah.

552
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,280
Voted YTA, 10 out of 10 times by the Reddit community, for sure.

553
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,280
I know what that means.

554
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:46,280
Yeah.

555
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:47,280
I get the reference.

556
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Yeah.

557
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:56,600
I've been listening to a lot of AITA stories recently and they've tried it our brain space.

558
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,400
Only because Caitlyn has talked about it.

559
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,400
I haven't like gone looking.

560
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,160
Should we tell like my mom what it means?

561
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,720
I don't think she knows.

562
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,720
Oh, yeah.

563
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,720
What's it mean?

564
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,800
So she knows exactly what it means, but she's like, you know, I want to do you know.

565
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,200
- Yeah. - Yes, yeah.

566
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,060
- You, you, you challenge.

567
00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:20,340
- YTA is you're the asshole.

568
00:25:20,340 --> 00:25:26,360
There's, I think, let's see, I'm thinking of a couple of other ones

569
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:27,780
that I've heard thrown around.

570
00:25:27,780 --> 00:25:32,260
E-S-H, everyone sucks here.

571
00:25:32,260 --> 00:25:33,500
- Oh, I've never heard that one. - So I've heard that one?

572
00:25:33,500 --> 00:25:34,900
- Yeah, it's a fun one.

573
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:39,140
And then NTA is not the asshole.

574
00:25:39,140 --> 00:25:40,500
Those are kind of the main ones.

575
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:42,120
Those are the ones you need.

576
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,480
- You need to know. - Like, those are your kind of core.

577
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:46,840
- Yeah. - There you go, Mom.

578
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,240
- Yeah. - Welcome.

579
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,920
- Actually, Reddit would probably be like split

580
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,000
in a surprising turn, because Reddit is just wild.

581
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,400
But whatever. - I never, it's, it's, I don't like it.

582
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,960
- People have so many opinions.

583
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:01,560
- They do. - Yeah.

584
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,200
- I only like to go find a spooky thing

585
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:04,520
and then like read the comments.

586
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:05,680
- Yeah, she's like, "Aaaah!"

587
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:06,680
- I'm gonna hurry out.

588
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,480
- It's very specific what I look for on Reddit.

589
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,640
(laughing)

590
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,640
As the man fled, the children watched him flee

591
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,920
across the backyard and down the steep embankment

592
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:19,440
toward commencement bay.

593
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:24,520
No small feat with a reportedly 70 pound child.

594
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,600
A terrified kid in tow.

595
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,400
- I was gonna say how, like, how is he holding this kid?

596
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,440
- I don't like throw him over his shoulder.

597
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,920
- Oh, God. - Like, Jesus.

598
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,480
First of all, I'm not running until a cardiologist

599
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,480
or a gangster is holding a gun to my head.

600
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,880
(laughing)

601
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,200
And even then, it's really gonna depend on how I feel.

602
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:55,040
Also, not carrying a small, potentially screaming human

603
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:56,320
while I do so.

604
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,800
The running is hard enough.

605
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,720
- I wonder if he said something though

606
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,600
about like, "Hey, don't struggle," 'cause.

607
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:04,760
- How? - Yeah.

608
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,480
- Yeah. - If he told me not to like call a cop,

609
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,880
or he'd shoot them, I wonder what he said to the kid.

610
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,480
- Yeah, the littlest.

611
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,360
- Either way though.

612
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:16,720
Like, of course, he's gonna be hysterically crying.

613
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,040
I don't know, I'm just saying,

614
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,800
that's a special kind of hell to each their own, I suppose.

615
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,640
He's got his eyes on the prize, $28,000.

616
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,240
I'm thinking about now and I'm like, okay.

617
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,720
Obviously inflation, but that wouldn't even pay off

618
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,560
my student loan.

619
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,400
So like, am I really going down this road?

620
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,680
- No, well, he probably didn't have student loans.

621
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,000
Doesn't seem like the student type.

622
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,400
- Yeah.

623
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,240
- That's fair.

624
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,680
William phoned the police.

625
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,160
At first, it was unclear whether that was junior or senior,

626
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,720
but additional research revealed that it was reportedly

627
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,520
billy, so the brother that made the call.

628
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,240
- So he didn't listen, good.

629
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,400
- Yeah.

630
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,440
- No, he was like, I do not follow instructions.

631
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:05,600
- Good. - Yeah, I told him.

632
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:06,680
- Age boy for once.

633
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:07,840
- Yeah, I know, right?

634
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:08,880
(laughing)

635
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:10,600
- Teenage rebellion for the win.

636
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,800
- Yeah.

637
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:12,800
- For the W-1.

638
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:17,080
- Based on the various descriptions gathered

639
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,680
from the three young traumatized witnesses,

640
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,800
the following picture emerged of the intruder.

641
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,440
He was a man clad in a blue zipper jacket

642
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,560
and a light colored checkered cap.

643
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,640
Some sources said white while another said tan.

644
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,560
- With hairy hands.

645
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,080
- hairy hands?

646
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:38,920
- Yeah.

647
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:40,480
- They had zippers back then?

648
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,560
- Yeah.

649
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,000
Cassie has really, like, her mind is fully blown.

650
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,320
(laughing)

651
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,800
- That is not where I saw it.

652
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,480
- She was going through my head at one time.

653
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,640
(laughing)

654
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,600
- I just didn't think that would be the thing

655
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,800
that you would focus on.

656
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,200
You're like zippers and hairy hands.

657
00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:58,560
- I was stuck on the zippers

658
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,480
and then you had said hairy hands and that through me,

659
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,720
but I was like still on the zippers.

660
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,040
Did you, like, I feel like maybe I put those two,

661
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,960
like, descriptors too close together

662
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:10,760
'cause I feel like as I'm writing it

663
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,400
and then as I'm reading it again,

664
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,160
I'm just picturing his hairy hand,

665
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,600
getting like caught in the zipper.

666
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:18,880
Is that just me?

667
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,520
- Ah, am I the weirdo?

668
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:22,360
- Probably.

669
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,960
- We should start a new, like, am I the asshole,

670
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,960
but am I the weirdo?

671
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,160
- Am I the weirdo?

672
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:28,000
- Is that a reddit?

673
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:28,840
- Yeah, should we start it?

674
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:29,680
- I don't think so.

675
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:30,520
Am I the weirdo?

676
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:31,360
- I like it.

677
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:32,200
- I like it.

678
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:33,040
- I like it.

679
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:34,480
- It's hours now.

680
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:35,320
- It's probably already.

681
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:36,160
- I'm writing this down.

682
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,080
- I feel like someone has come up with it.

683
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:39,480
- I don't think so.

684
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,720
I don't think anybody's ever, I've never seen that.

685
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200
I don't know.

686
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,320
- Then I will check in it with jeez.

687
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,840
- Yeah, you are.

688
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,120
- Okay, but first they had zippers back then.

689
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:53,960
- Yeah.

690
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,960
- 1936.

691
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,440
- Why do I feel like we've glued the--

692
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,120
- 14 before, like, when zippers has--

693
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:01,200
- Do I need to look it up?

694
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,000
- Yeah, just look it up, sorry.

695
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,920
- I just find, my brain won't go anywhere else.

696
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,760
- Until I know.

697
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,600
- No, it's fine.

698
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,840
We're only three pages in to nine.

699
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:12,680
(laughing)

700
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:13,520
It's fine.

701
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:19,520
The zipper was invented technically in 1917,

702
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,960
but it wasn't until 1923 that the name was first used.

703
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,440
An American company called BF Goodrich Company

704
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,440
used Sundback's design on boots and coined the term zipper.

705
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,920
- Okay.

706
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,320
- Uh-oh.

707
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,920
Goodrich came up with a name based on the noise

708
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,120
a zipper makes when you use it.

709
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,880
- It's the onomatopoeia.

710
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:47,800
- onomatopoeia, yeah.

711
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,040
- Okay.

712
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,480
This is so weird to me.

713
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:51,680
I feel like this is me and other things

714
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:52,680
that's gonna throw you off.

715
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Maybe not, maybe I'm the weirdo.

716
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,600
Am I the weirdo?

717
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,440
The white rag he had dawned over his face,

718
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,600
slipped down at some point during their encounter,

719
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,000
revealing a full beard, high cheekbones,

720
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,920
a dimpled chin and a dark complexion.

721
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:16,920
Sworthy was the word used repeatedly in FBI statements

722
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,480
and the man spoke with an accent later described

723
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,400
as Southern European.

724
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,080
So I'm guessing these kids were far more polite

725
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,280
than many others of their time.

726
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,840
That or they simply couldn't quite place the man is like,

727
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:36,960
clearly he was Italian, clearly Spanish or Greek,

728
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,400
neatly they weren't sure what his ethnicity was.

729
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,240
- I'm not kind of hard sometimes.

730
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,520
- It is and I feel like it's incredibly,

731
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:49,240
if they didn't actually specifically identify

732
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:55,600
an ethnicity, I feel like that was like maybe

733
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,760
a very, well certainly a very good thing

734
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,520
because obviously this is a point in history when it's like,

735
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,280
oh we hate the eye, you know what I mean?

736
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,760
Like anybody that they identify as being a threat

737
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,360
then that whole community comes under fire.

738
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,000
So I'm thinking like, I don't know

739
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,120
that these kids were aware of that or like maybe

740
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,080
it was just out of politeness that they like they don't know

741
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,360
so they're not, you know, I have no idea,

742
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,800
but I don't know, maybe they just didn't want to send

743
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,680
the public at large after an entire unsuspecting

744
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,520
ethnic community which is maybe something

745
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,320
that people could learn from still today.

746
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,160
- Yeah.

747
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:40,600
- Perhaps but probably won't sometimes in some situations

748
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,280
which will remain nameless.

749
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,720
- Okay.

750
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,440
- I'm thrown off by how they knew he had a dimpled chin

751
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,360
if he had a whole beard.

752
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,840
- Oh, 'cause I think even with like facial,

753
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,520
like if he had a stubble, like if he had like the butt chin,

754
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,200
you know, I was thinking like a full beard,

755
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,480
he can't say that. - Well maybe he does,

756
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,520
but maybe it was just stubble.

757
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:04,440
I don't know, like that's still a full beard

758
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,880
'cause beard if like describes like where?

759
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:07,720
- Full beard.

760
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,960
- Yeah, no, I think they were just describing

761
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,440
the location of the facial.

762
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,400
- It wasn't like a goat.

763
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,240
- Yeah.

764
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:16,720
- That's a goat's ear for short.

765
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:17,720
(laughing)

766
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,240
- You shouldn't, no, you need to say goat's ear

767
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,280
because goat means something else.

768
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,280
- No, yes. - Not if you're clearly referencing beards.

769
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,040
- I'm just saying people get confused

770
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,840
and some things mean other things and maybe, you know.

771
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,920
- Everyone knows what I mean.

772
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,240
- Just saying that when we're talking about

773
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:38,320
the greatest one of all time.

774
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,720
- Yeah, no, that's not what I'm talking about

775
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,760
'cause he's clearly not.

776
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:42,760
- No. - If he can't even grow

777
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,160
a beard, it covers dimpled chin.

778
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:46,280
(laughing)

779
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,320
- Oh man.

780
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,200
Okay, also like, I know I'm recently married,

781
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,640
but does this dude sound vaguely hot?

782
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,040
Kind of a little.

783
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,200
I'm gonna be honest, I think it's fine.

784
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,040
Okay, we can be honest, right?

785
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,560
'Cause this guy, hot or not, at the time,

786
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,360
is super dead by now, but I'm gonna be honest.

787
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,240
It kind of sounds like the FBI had a crush on them too.

788
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,440
Which is like, ew, FBI, be better.

789
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,000
I'm a simple, I'm a person, okay.

790
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,360
You're an entire organization.

791
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,160
Do better.

792
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,680
- Yeah. - Do better.

793
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,080
We all know the beard, the weakness for beards, but.

794
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,840
- Yeah, I don't really, that's not really a thing for me.

795
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,680
- It was more that swarthy.

796
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:31,240
- I don't know, something about that.

797
00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:35,880
Like if you say swarthy, I'm like, do you mean sexy?

798
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,600
I wonder if it maybe had more of a negative connotation about that.

799
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,040
- I think it did. - Yeah, I think it did.

800
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,960
'Cause now we've just turned everything bad boy to sexy.

801
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,160
- Yeah, I'm like, oh my god, it's so hot.

802
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,000
- Yeah.

803
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,240
(laughing)

804
00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:53,040
- We've got something we're really excited to share with you guys.

805
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,920
Let's hear a few words from our new pod besties.

806
00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,720
- Do you love true crime and travel?

807
00:35:01,720 --> 00:35:04,680
Having traveled the world so low the last couple of years

808
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,000
and being obsessed with true crime?

809
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,560
I found myself researching others who took the same vacations,

810
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,280
but never made it home.

811
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,560
The Last Trip is a true crime podcast covering missing

812
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,720
and murdered people that were living their best lives on vacation.

813
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,480
I'm your host, Jamie Beebe.

814
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,280
And each week I'll bring you on the last trip,

815
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,600
taking a deep dive into vacation culture and travel spots,

816
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,440
tips on staying alive while traveling,

817
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,280
and ultimately recreating someone's last days and paradise.

818
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,120
What led to their last trip?

819
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:36,760
What are the hard facts?

820
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,280
What is the final outcome?

821
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,320
And could you be next?

822
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,880
David Smedin was a 24-year-old college student from Utah,

823
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,120
attending Mandarin classes in Beijing

824
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,880
when he mysteriously disappeared

825
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,280
while hiking Tiger Leaping Gorge.

826
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,760
Chinese authorities said he drowned in the gorge

827
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,440
and US authorities agreed,

828
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,240
although his body was never found

829
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,320
and his parents didn't believe that.

830
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,800
Seven years later, out of the blue,

831
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,640
they got a phone call from a former US official

832
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,560
who had evidence David is still alive.

833
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:08,640
This case sounds like a Hollywood movie,

834
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,160
but evidence doesn't lie.

835
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,800
So where is David Smedin?

836
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,040
Famous rugby player and celebrity ex-factor contestant,

837
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,360
Levi Davis, went missing in Barcelona last year

838
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,720
while on a backpacking trip through Europe.

839
00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:23,720
Just days before he vanished,

840
00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,800
he posted a 15-minute video to his Instagram account

841
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,360
saying his life was in danger and people were after him.

842
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,040
After he disappeared, several theories emerged,

843
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,440
but what really happened to Levi Davis?

844
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,120
Join me, Jamie Beebe,

845
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,520
co-host of the popular True Crime series, Strictly Stalking,

846
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,600
as I embark on a brand new adventure

847
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,880
combining True Crime and Travel.

848
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,200
Listen to The Last Trip wherever you get your podcast.

849
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,280
Check them out, creepy people.

850
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,960
You can find their info in our show notes.

851
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,440
Any hosel back to the story.

852
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,120
Within minutes, the police were at the Mattson Family Home,

853
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,800
followed by Dr. Mattson and his wife Ruth

854
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,480
returning from their social function.

855
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,280
Thankfully, detectives were able

856
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,920
to collect a good description from the children

857
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,680
who had seen the kidnappers mask slip.

858
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,640
The FBI then generated a drawing of the kidnapper

859
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,280
that would be distributed far and wide on posters

860
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,200
in newspapers, as well as the law enforcement bulletin

861
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,720
produced by, say, magency of the FBI.

862
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,560
They were like, we're so good, we make all the stress.

863
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,080
(laughs)

864
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,080
(sighs)

865
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:38,600
- They had the FBI back then?

866
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,440
- Yeah.

867
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,200
- I'm like, yeah, I'm already talking about that.

868
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:45,680
(laughs)

869
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,320
- Like, I already talked about how they were just good.

870
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,880
- God, God, like you don't even listen to me.

871
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,600
Anyways, try not to.

872
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,280
(laughs)

873
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,120
- Thank you.

874
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,440
- The Tacoma Police Department worked quickly,

875
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,360
searching that nearby area for Charles,

876
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,880
as well as his assailant.

877
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,320
They believed the man to be roughly middle aged

878
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,920
in his mid-30s to early 40s,

879
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,240
standing about five-seven,

880
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:15,640
weighing roughly 145 pounds.

881
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,840
The man, if quickly discovered,

882
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,200
would presumably still be accompanied

883
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,160
by his victim standing at just four-six.

884
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:25,800
- No.

885
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:27,680
- Barely, barely.

886
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,800
Oh, barely dollar that in this kid.

887
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:31,320
(laughs)

888
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,840
So basically within a margin of error compared to my own height,

889
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:36,160
I say, in my notes.

890
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,520
We're different, but James is.

891
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:44,360
- Little Charles had been seen wearing a gray sweater,

892
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,480
blue knicker bockers and house slippers.

893
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,200
And you guys, if you're not totally sure

894
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,840
what knicker bockers are,

895
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,680
they're really a sight to behold.

896
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:53,680
- No.

897
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,920
- Wikipedia says they're a form of baggy need breaches,

898
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,360
particularly popular in the early 20th century United States.

899
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,120
But honestly, if it weren't for the fact that

900
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,760
most of the ones that I saw looked like they were made

901
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,920
out of straight burlap sacks,

902
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,200
I'd have to swear they were something smuggled off the set

903
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,960
of a production of Aladdin.

904
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:17,280
(laughs)

905
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:18,680
All of the pictures, you're like,

906
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:23,680
why would you make Aladdin pants out of like wool?

907
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,040
Like something scratchier than wool.

908
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,640
What scratchier than wool?

909
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:28,640
Like burlap sacks.

910
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:29,480
- Yeah.

911
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,600
- They look like they're, oh my God.

912
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:36,480
It's so cute and old-timey, but they look so uncomfortable.

913
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:37,320
- Yeah.

914
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,360
- So hot, so itchy.

915
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,960
- You're very focused on the clothes in this episode.

916
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,320
- I mean, I just was like, I don't know,

917
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,360
that I fully understand what knicker bockers are.

918
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,280
I understand they're like pants, but then I was like,

919
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,000
all right, we gotta look further into this,

920
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,000
'cause obviously that's gonna be the weird thing

921
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,280
that Cassie and I focus on.

922
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:57,000
(laughs)

923
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,120
- We were talking about the football clothes being scratchy.

924
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,440
- Everything was so fucking scratchy.

925
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,120
- But now I get like why they wore long johns

926
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,000
under everything because they--

927
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,600
- Now I get why everybody looked fucking miserable

928
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,880
in every picture they ever took.

929
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,320
They were hot and itchy.

930
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,800
- Entire, 'cause they're wearing like 50 pounds of clothing.

931
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,240
Police were quickly able to piece together

932
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:24,640
that the kidnappers most likely escape route

933
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,760
was getaway car on Rustin Avenue,

934
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,520
which also suggested he may have had an accomplice.

935
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:32,920
- Oh.

936
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,200
- And though they were certainly near enough

937
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,640
to a body of water that might have otherwise

938
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,760
aided in the kidnappers escape,

939
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,200
it was unlikely that he had utilized a boat.

940
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,720
As it turns out that on that particular Sunday night,

941
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:49,760
it had been one of the lowest tides to occur

942
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:50,880
all of that year.

943
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:55,360
- Did he use an inner tube?

944
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,840
(laughs)

945
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:58,680
(laughs)

946
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,440
- I don't think he would have been able to get away

947
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:01,520
quickly in an inner tube.

948
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,600
Have we not learned that?

949
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,320
- He didn't talk to a DB-tuber.

950
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:06,680
He didn't rig a pulley system.

951
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:07,920
- Oh my God.

952
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,520
- I think, yeah, no.

953
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:11,840
(laughs)

954
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,280
- I had to.

955
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,520
Of course, the search would not prove fruitful in any case,

956
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,600
but that didn't mean they had nothing to go on.

957
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,560
The note recovered by detectives written by the kidnapper

958
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,760
that had been left in the home proved interesting,

959
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:31,120
if not necessarily particularly helpful to their case.

960
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,440
It appeared to have been written on a child's toy typewriter,

961
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,520
which I had no fucking idea existed,

962
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,240
but it makes sense, given the time, listen, do me a favor.

963
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,680
If anyone has one of these little curiosities

964
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,520
just sitting around collecting dust, let me know.

965
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,360
I will send you a prepaid shipping label 'cause I won't sit.

966
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,320
- Who uses typewriters anyway?

967
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,160
- No one does.

968
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:56,360
It's a kid's typewriter, though.

969
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:57,560
- Taylor Swift lyric.

970
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,680
(screams)

971
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:00,680
That is so cute.

972
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,680
- I like you used it for the worst thing ever.

973
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,160
- Yeah, kidnap a kid.

974
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,240
- What a dick.

975
00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:12,240
- Yeah, I mean, he is garbage, but toy typewriter adorable.

976
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,240
And I want one.

977
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:15,680
I want one.

978
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:17,760
- It would be perfect for your size.

979
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:19,400
- It really would.

980
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,720
The note had been typed up in a reportedly odd color ink,

981
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:25,800
not sure what color, but since it was probably dictated

982
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,440
from a kid's typewriter, I feel like that probably checks out.

983
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,960
At a glance, it seemed a little wandering and disjointed,

984
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,680
but in truth, the in-depth analysis of the letter

985
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,280
revealed that it was fairly well written.

986
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:43,200
And to the point, like most of my AP comp assignments,

987
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,200
clearly I have since diverged ever so slightly

988
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,560
from Ms. Cole's typical coursework.

989
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:51,960
- I was gonna say, that makes one of us.

990
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:52,800
- Yeah.

991
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,560
- I don't think mine were coherent at all.

992
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:55,800
- Yeah.

993
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,960
- I'm not being given college credit

994
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,800
as a motivating factor for this podcast,

995
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:05,320
but I am still driven by the one to five scale rating system.

996
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:06,600
- Five stars, people.

997
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:07,600
Five stars.

998
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,600
- We're in a son apple spot-a-by,

999
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,280
or anywhere you listen to podcasts.

1000
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:13,280
- Exactly.

1001
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,480
- I was like, how do I find myself here?

1002
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:21,000
I was like the most bizarre of tangents, but here we are.

1003
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:25,760
The demands of the kidnapper or neighbor.

1004
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,560
- I don't like it.

1005
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,920
I really hate it when they say kidnapper.

1006
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:29,760
- Stop it.

1007
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,280
- We're stated clearly in the note,

1008
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,040
the price is $28,000.

1009
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,160
$10,000 in fives and tens.

1010
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,320
$18,000 in fifties and hundreds.

1011
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,800
Old bills, please,

1012
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,240
D.

1013
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:49,320
That's how it's spelled.

1014
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:50,160
- Please.

1015
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,160
- Please D.

1016
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,640
P-L-E-A-S-D.

1017
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,880
Could be a typo?

1018
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,760
- I was wondering if he had-

1019
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,080
- The typewriter made a bunch of typos

1020
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,000
and had to keep ripping it out and restarting.

1021
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,480
- Yeah, he's like nah,

1022
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:05,720
ain't nobody got time for that.

1023
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:08,920
Old bills, please, no new ones.

1024
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,840
Put ad in Seattle Times, personal column,

1025
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:13,440
read,

1026
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,280
mabel.

1027
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,640
What's your new address, Tim?

1028
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,080
Put this ad times no other paper.

1029
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,400
If no answer from you within week,

1030
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,760
price goes up,

1031
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,480
Goes up,

1032
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:29,680
Gos up,

1033
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:30,800
g-o-s,

1034
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:31,840
Gos up,

1035
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,240
double,

1036
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:35,640
and double

1037
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,000
that each week after.

1038
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,080
Don't fail.

1039
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:41,800
And I won't.

1040
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,560
The boy is safe.

1041
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:45,560
Tim.

1042
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,720
- So his name is Tim.

1043
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:48,560
- Allegedly.

1044
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,120
- He's brought it twice.

1045
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,120
- He's, yeah.

1046
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:52,800
I mean,

1047
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,760
I don't know how likely it is that his real name is Tim,

1048
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,680
but it's weird.

1049
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,520
- Yeah.

1050
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,880
It's riddled with spelling and grammatical errors,

1051
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:06,000
whereas my writing only contains careless typos.

1052
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,480
So you can see why it'd be perturbed.

1053
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,080
- I thought you said it was coherent.

1054
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,080
I feel like you're relying on those.

1055
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:12,920
- I mean, kind of,

1056
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,360
like the point of it was there,

1057
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,240
but it's really hard to read

1058
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,520
without getting distracted by the grammatical

1059
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,600
and spelling errors.

1060
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:21,440
- Yeah.

1061
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:22,280
- Yeah.

1062
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,880
- That's upsetting, you know,

1063
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,520
aside from the whole thing of the life of a child

1064
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:27,840
hanging in the balance.

1065
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,520
Priorities may be spelled correctly,

1066
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:36,160
and people will take your ransom note seriously.

1067
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,160
But honestly, they took it seriously regardless.

1068
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,000
- Yeah.

1069
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,560
- Whoa.

1070
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,400
A few things to keep in mind regarding this case

1071
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,000
before we make our way to the conclusion.

1072
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:51,160
The ransom note appeared to not only be old,

1073
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,280
but dirty and lacking in specifics,

1074
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,200
leading investigators to believe

1075
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,040
it may have been drafted to use

1076
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,240
in a future kidnapping of convenience.

1077
00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:04,280
- Oh, so you didn't type it up there.

1078
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,040
- Kidnappings were real popular.

1079
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,600
- I was thinking he typed up that thing there,

1080
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,280
like on their toy typewriter.

1081
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,480
- Oh, like why would you,

1082
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,760
I think he used his own kids typewriter.

1083
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,320
- Oh God.

1084
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:19,520
- Yeah.

1085
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,160
Though there was a theory that the kidnapper

1086
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:27,160
may have originally intended to abduct John Franklin,

1087
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:30,760
the young son of George G Franklin,

1088
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,520
Jr., and wife Margaret,

1089
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,320
who had been the current residents

1090
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,840
of Hadaway Hall at the time,

1091
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,080
which happened to be the former residents

1092
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:46,080
of John Philip Weyerhaeuser Senior.

1093
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,080
- No shit.

1094
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,480
- Yeah.

1095
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:50,320
- What?

1096
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,920
- In fact, there were multiple break-in attempts

1097
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,880
by a man matching the kidnappers description

1098
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,680
that lent credence to this theory.

1099
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:07,520
One of the two encounters also bore a striking resemblance

1100
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,840
to the Lindbergh baby case,

1101
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:13,480
as a latter had been used in an effort

1102
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,160
to enter the young child's bedroom.

1103
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,680
In the second, the intruder appeared in a banner,

1104
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:25,600
far more bold, firing a weapon as they fled.

1105
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:26,800
- Wow.

1106
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,120
- Both incidents were kept secret from the public,

1107
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,320
and the Franklin family left for an unscheduled sojourn

1108
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:37,000
to California shortly after.

1109
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,760
They're like, okay, bye forever.

1110
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,680
- God damn dude.

1111
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:42,520
- Yeah.

1112
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,040
- So it's possible that even though I'm sure

1113
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:51,120
they themselves were maybe quite wealthy,

1114
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:54,080
they may have been mistaken for members

1115
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:55,440
of the Weyerhaeuser family.

1116
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,120
- Wow.

1117
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:57,960
- Wild.

1118
00:47:57,960 --> 00:47:59,200
- That is intense.

1119
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,040
Like that could be--

1120
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:00,880
- Wild.

1121
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:02,720
- Not that I wanted to happen to another family,

1122
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:05,240
but like that could have happened to their family again.

1123
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:07,240
Like, yeah.

1124
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:09,200
(gasps)

1125
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,360
- Well, Senior was, I believe the grandpa,

1126
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:16,200
so I don't know that any of the Weyerhaeuser children

1127
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,440
would have been living in that home at that time.

1128
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:20,280
- Yeah.

1129
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,600
- But I mean, yeah, I'm just fucking wild.

1130
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,440
The parallels.

1131
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:29,640
Like, I mean, these cases happened so close together

1132
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:31,960
to wild.

1133
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:33,440
- Weird.

1134
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaking of crazy.

1135
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,320
Actually, this is like the most same thing

1136
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,840
that Congress has done, probably, so.

1137
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,080
J.K., Congress passed the Federal Kidnapping Act,

1138
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:48,440
also known as the Lindbergh Law,

1139
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,680
on June 17th, 1932,

1140
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,320
making Interstate Kidnapping a Federal felony

1141
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,000
under the jurisdiction of the FBI.

1142
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,640
The law was in direct response to what appeared to be

1143
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,880
an increasingly profitable and popular racket

1144
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,440
that of kidnapping for ransom,

1145
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:12,840
particularly that of the Lindbergh baby,

1146
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,920
which is not a case that ends well, either.

1147
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,880
Until the kidnapping of Charles Mattson,

1148
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:25,040
there have been no major kidnappings involving the FBI

1149
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,040
since the kidnapping of none other than George H.

1150
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:36,840
Weyerhaeuser in Tacoma, also in fucking Tacoma.

1151
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,840
On May 24th, 1935, this was not that long after.

1152
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:44,000
- Yeah, well.

1153
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:47,280
- We're talking like May 1935,

1154
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:51,520
and then December 1936.

1155
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,680
- I can't remember, did those people get caught?

1156
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:55,520
- Sure did.

1157
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:56,680
- They did, okay, it's the only one.

1158
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,640
- What would you want to do it again if they got caught?

1159
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,520
- Well, I mean, it's different people.

1160
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,560
It's different people, it's not the, I mean.

1161
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:03,560
- Yeah, but we know.

1162
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:04,800
- But we know, there could be some crossover,

1163
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,000
but we're not sure.

1164
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,320
- Yeah.

1165
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,440
- Oh.

1166
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:09,760
- The intrigue.

1167
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:10,600
- Woo!

1168
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,840
- But it's like, I mean, that made it a very,

1169
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:14,440
very serious crime.

1170
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:18,080
It's also funny to me too, because

1171
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,480
until Charles was kidnapped,

1172
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,200
there had been no major kidnappings involving the FBI

1173
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,200
since George, and it's like, yeah,

1174
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:29,120
there was like six months ago, man.

1175
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:29,960
- Yeah.

1176
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,600
- It's like, wait, is that right?

1177
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,360
- No, there was like 18 months ago.

1178
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:35,520
- Still. - J.K.

1179
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:36,320
- 18 months.

1180
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,960
- I'll tip my, she can, man.

1181
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,400
- I can, man.

1182
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,600
- I just feel like that isn't really saying much.

1183
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,440
It's not that long of a period of time in between,

1184
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,920
but it is, it's like, that is what kind of earmarks

1185
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,920
this case as like the next like super high profile crime

1186
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:58,680
in that era involving kidnapping and ransom.

1187
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,920
So, but in any case, once the FBI was notified

1188
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,880
of the abduction, they determined that the federal

1189
00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,440
kidnapping act had likely been violated.

1190
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,480
And immediately sent nine agents to Tacoma

1191
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,520
to assist the police in the hunt for the kidnapper,

1192
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:19,020
who was declared public enemy number one.

1193
00:51:19,020 --> 00:51:23,520
- Oh, not in a good way.

1194
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:24,360
- No.

1195
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,080
- Which feels like an understatement

1196
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,560
when considering that within a week,

1197
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,840
FBI director, John Edgar Hoover,

1198
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:37,840
dispatched roughly 40 agents to Tacoma.

1199
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,120
And it's like, what?

1200
00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:45,480
There was like, he sends like 50 people within like a week.

1201
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:47,240
So he's like, okay, we're gonna send like nine

1202
00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:49,880
and then we'll send like 40 more.

1203
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:51,240
- That you could bet you do it.

1204
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:52,600
- Yeah.

1205
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,120
Jesus Christ.

1206
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,960
Along with the assistant director, Harold Nathan,

1207
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,160
to take charge of the investigation.

1208
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:05,600
Notably, Inspector Earl J. Connolly,

1209
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,000
who had successfully directed the warehouse or case,

1210
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:13,200
roughly 18 months earlier was sent from bureau headquarters

1211
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,600
to support the investigation.

1212
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:18,720
- Shit, dude, he's probably like, again.

1213
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:23,200
All the same, journalists were all but foaming at the mouth

1214
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,800
to get the next bit of coverage pertaining to the case,

1215
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,160
just as had been true in the warehouse or case.

1216
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,320
Sadly, those shadowing his every move

1217
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,320
made it very difficult for Dr. Mattson

1218
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,080
to negotiate with the kidnapper.

1219
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:43,720
However, just days after Christmas on Monday,

1220
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:47,000
December 28th, 1936,

1221
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,880
an advertisement appeared in the classified section

1222
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,400
of the Seattle Times, which read, "Mable,

1223
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,160
please give us your address and."

1224
00:52:56,160 --> 00:53:00,280
Although the Mattson's denied knowledge of the ad,

1225
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,440
a special delivery letter arrived at the Mattson home

1226
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:08,040
Tuesday morning, which said that anyone could deliver

1227
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:11,400
the ransom money as long as the courier was alone

1228
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,760
and driving a Ford automobile.

1229
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,960
Further instruction said, "Agnore all messages delivered to you

1230
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,640
unless they are written in the same letters

1231
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,200
and the same ink as this.

1232
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:24,800
Tim."

1233
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:28,280
- Was there a lot of cars besides Ford's back then?

1234
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,720
- I don't really think so.

1235
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:32,920
- Or did it just mean it had to be in a car?

1236
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,640
- I'm not really sure.

1237
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:35,720
- Interesting.

1238
00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:38,800
- In this case, the authorities agreed to back off

1239
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,640
until such a time that the safer turn of Charles

1240
00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:45,680
could be secured, but still the media persisted,

1241
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,200
attempting to report every last detail.

1242
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:53,320
By January, dropping temperatures combined

1243
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,200
with increased snowfall in the area had the FBI concerned

1244
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,240
that the kidnapper might hold Charles indefinitely

1245
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,280
for fear of being easily tracked on account

1246
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,320
of the fresh flurries falling to the ground.

1247
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,240
Still, even as the weather cleared on Wednesday,

1248
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:14,320
January 6, their fears could not be aswaged

1249
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,640
as the kidnapper still remained eerily silent.

1250
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:19,840
- Silent night.

1251
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,960
- Yeah. Unholy night.

1252
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,320
- Unholy night for certain.

1253
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,320
The following day was the 11th day of Charles' captivity,

1254
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,720
and the family had no idea whether he might already be dead,

1255
00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:38,000
or in fact remained alive and unharmed.

1256
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:42,320
The news media continued to madly spiral,

1257
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:45,880
indeed essentially stalking the grief-stricken family.

1258
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:46,720
- Jesus.

1259
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:48,680
- Worried for the young Charles,

1260
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,120
while the authorities continued their non-interventionist

1261
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,520
strategy, very popular in America,

1262
00:54:55,520 --> 00:55:00,520
in the 1930s and up to a certain point in the '40s as well.

1263
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,920
- So the '40 people were just sitting up there,

1264
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:05,040
chilling?

1265
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:10,040
- I mean, they just were trying not to step on too many toes.

1266
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,120
They were there and they were trying to investigate,

1267
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:14,720
and I mean, they were really,

1268
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,520
they were trying to do everything that they can,

1269
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,360
but I think at that point,

1270
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:24,000
we don't have the same level of experience and data

1271
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,600
and expertise that we do now about these types of scenarios.

1272
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:30,120
So they're like, well, I don't know,

1273
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:33,320
maybe if we just back off, like everything will be fine.

1274
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:34,320
- It's hard to know what to do.

1275
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,160
It's kind of like literally if someone is holding a hostage

1276
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,560
at gunpoint right there,

1277
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,960
you can't shoot at them, like what do you do?

1278
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,120
- I mean, you can, sometimes they do.

1279
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,760
That's supposed to, right?

1280
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:49,720
- I mean, it really depends, it's very situational,

1281
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:51,600
but yeah, by and large, yeah,

1282
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,440
they're not gonna fire on someone who,

1283
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:57,760
but I don't know, I don't,

1284
00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:01,320
it's like you can't project someone.

1285
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:02,440
- No, you don't, I mean,

1286
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,680
and even if they don't see it coming,

1287
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,920
this could be something where it's like a twitch

1288
00:56:07,920 --> 00:56:11,000
or a jerk once they're impacted by,

1289
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,800
listen, I'm gonna spiral,

1290
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,640
I'm gonna go into a very dark place.

1291
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,680
Darker than is already standard for all up in here.

1292
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,520
I'll, I'll, I'll pull you out.

1293
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,480
- You can't.

1294
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:26,640
- No, I'm like the unicorn in.

1295
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:27,640
- We're fun.

1296
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,840
- What is that, the never ending story?

1297
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:31,840
- I'm nursing it.

1298
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,040
- Oh my God.

1299
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,720
Okay, anyways, we have to move on.

1300
00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:37,840
- We have to move on.

1301
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:39,880
- Sorry.

1302
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:43,760
- A fifth classified ad was run by the Mattson family

1303
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,600
in the Seattle Times on Friday, January 8,

1304
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,000
which read, "Mabel, we are still waiting.

1305
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,800
All arrangements have been carried out

1306
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,200
in accordance with instructions contained in notes received.

1307
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,240
Be certain to give me information

1308
00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:03,280
so I may guard against imposter and hijackers

1309
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:06,760
and be more specific in your instructions."

1310
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:07,600
Ann.

1311
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,680
On Sunday, January 10th,

1312
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,560
and the following Monday, the same ad appeared

1313
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:16,840
with the addition of one sentence.

1314
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,320
"In view of laps of time,

1315
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:25,280
"also desire, new proof my son is alive and well."

1316
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,120
Ann.

1317
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:32,000
However, though the family remained unaware,

1318
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:36,120
sadly it was already too late for Charles.

1319
00:57:36,120 --> 00:57:42,360
A rabbit hunter by the name of Gordon Morrow

1320
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:46,240
would later discover his body on January 11th,

1321
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:51,240
1937, just a few short miles from his family's home

1322
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,360
in a Snohomish County field.

1323
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,800
Gordon had stumbled across the body of a young boy

1324
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,200
in a state of undress lying in the snow.

1325
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,160
He immediately ran home,

1326
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,520
alerting his father, Charles Morrow,

1327
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:10,680
to his horrific finding.

1328
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:14,080
Once he had inspected the scene,

1329
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,720
Charles sent his son to a gas station about a half mile away

1330
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,160
to reach the Snohomish County Sheriff by phone

1331
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,600
to inform him of the gruesome discovery.

1332
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,000
Now remember, not everybody has a phone

1333
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,560
in their home at this point.

1334
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:29,600
- Wow.

1335
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,280
- A lot of people, maybe,

1336
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,000
and certainly in a wealthy community, you know,

1337
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:36,080
not everybody.

1338
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:40,480
That poor kid, he was being run ragged.

1339
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:41,240
- Yeah.

1340
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,240
The area where the body was discovered

1341
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:47,120
was just about a half mile from Pacific Highway

1342
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:52,120
or 99 as literally everyone refers to it to my knowledge.

1343
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,360
It had been left amongst a growth of older saplings

1344
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,280
because there were both tire tracks

1345
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:03,480
and footprints found at the scene in the fresh snow.

1346
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,000
The investigators believed that the boy's body

1347
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:09,880
had been left there either late Sunday night

1348
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:14,880
or early Monday morning, having been killed elsewhere.

1349
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,160
Gordon Morrow thought the body was probably left

1350
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:23,360
about 9 p.m. on Sunday when his bulldog Nick

1351
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,560
started barking excitedly and running from door to door

1352
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,120
trying to get out of the house.

1353
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:28,960
- Oh.

1354
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,960
(laughing)

1355
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:36,320
He's like, "Someone needs my help!"

1356
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,840
"Someone, something is afloat!"

1357
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:40,000
- "Listen, your dog!"

1358
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,480
- "I know, I know."

1359
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,080
- I mean, it wouldn't have changed things.

1360
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:46,640
- No, it wouldn't.

1361
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,320
- But I'm saying like they know something is going on.

1362
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,160
- Yeah. - Yeah.

1363
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,920
The young boy's body was kept in an ambulance

1364
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:58,080
at the crime scene until it was identified as Charles

1365
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,240
by Paul H.

1366
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:03,200
"Siva, I'm gonna guess on the pronunciation."

1367
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,040
He was a close family friend.

1368
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,840
And James Gowdy, a relative of the Mattsons.

1369
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,680
A preliminary examination of the remains

1370
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,280
conducted by Snohomish County Corner,

1371
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,320
which, wow, we're guessing on the pronunciation here

1372
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:24,920
a little bit, stole, shallochome,

1373
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:30,440
and King County Corner, Auto H Middlestedt,

1374
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,120
was able to determine that the boy's likely cause of death

1375
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,720
was blunt trauma to his head with a heavy instrument.

1376
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,440
The report further detailed the condition of Charles' body.

1377
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:46,520
Stating that the bruises on the body indicated

1378
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:48,720
he had been handled roughly,

1379
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:52,400
which I think we could have told you that

1380
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,480
from as soon as he was taken from the home.

1381
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:59,000
And marks on the wrists showed his hands

1382
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,520
had been bound tightly with rope.

1383
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,760
They thought Charles had died no later than Thursday,

1384
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:10,200
and possibly only a short time after his abduction.

1385
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:15,360
Abrajians, grease marks, and dirt on the skin

1386
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:19,240
indicated the frozen body had been hauled around

1387
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,160
in the trunk of an automobile.

1388
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:24,320
- What the fuck is the point?

1389
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,280
- I thought you wanted money.

1390
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:30,480
- I mean, sometimes they think they can still get money,

1391
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,040
and a lot of times they use the ransom as a guise

1392
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,600
because what they really want to do is take a child.

1393
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:39,640
- It seems like it.

1394
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:40,480
- Yeah.

1395
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:46,240
On Monday night, at the FBI's direction,

1396
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,120
pathologist performed a formal autopsy

1397
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:52,560
at the Buckley King funeral home in Tacoma,

1398
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:57,600
which revealed that in addition to the massive head injuries,

1399
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,440
Charles had also sustained a stab wound in the back

1400
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:03,200
with a long-bladed knife.

1401
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,560
- Cheers.

1402
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:08,720
- Below freezing temperatures had prevailed

1403
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,320
in the region for nearly a week,

1404
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,240
keeping the body from decomposing

1405
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,840
and making it impossible to determine the time of death.

1406
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,720
But blue clay on the boy's face and hands

1407
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:24,840
indicated the body had probably been hidden

1408
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,640
on a riverbank or near mud flats.

1409
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,640
During a press conference on Tuesday,

1410
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:36,120
Paul Siva, that's the family friend who acted as

1411
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:38,240
a spokesman for the family,

1412
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:41,520
told reporters that the weary kidnapper had communicated

1413
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,040
at least three times with Dr. Matzen by mail and telephone.

1414
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:50,320
But as days passed, his communications were confusing

1415
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,640
and conflicting, and Dr. Mattson was unable

1416
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:57,040
to get clear instructions on how to deliver the ransom.

1417
01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:02,600
In early January, Dr. Mattson attempted a rendezvous

1418
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,160
at a secret location on Beacon Hill in Seattle.

1419
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:11,440
But there had been a snow-related traffic accident nearby,

1420
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,120
attracting the attention of several passers-by,

1421
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:19,280
and kidnapper apparently fearing a trap

1422
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,320
failed to appear and the negotiations ended abruptly.

1423
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:25,120
No.

1424
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:32,040
On January 14, the funeral for Charles H. Mattson

1425
01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,480
was held at the Buckley King funeral church.

1426
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:41,880
The 25-minute service conducted by Reverend Harold B. Long,

1427
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:45,440
pastor of the Emanuel Presbyterian Church,

1428
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,520
was attended by family and some 200 friends,

1429
01:03:50,840 --> 01:03:53,760
after which the body was interred in a crypt

1430
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,760
at the Tacoma mausoleum.

1431
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,840
- About 200 people?

1432
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,000
- Over well over 200 people.

1433
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:02,960
- That's crazy.

1434
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:06,280
- Included among the scores of floral tributes

1435
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,960
was a large arrangement of roses and gardenias

1436
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:13,120
from FBI director J. Edgar Hoover.

1437
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:14,600
- Oh.

1438
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:15,600
- Still a dick.

1439
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:20,640
- Meanwhile, both local police and FBI agents

1440
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,840
were still working to collect any information or evidence

1441
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:26,520
and pursuing any lead they could find.

1442
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,080
They tracked down the usual suspects,

1443
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,920
such as numerous known criminals,

1444
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,400
questioning scores of possible suspects,

1445
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:39,400
they even looked for stolen cars or potential hideouts

1446
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,280
and literally any other clue.

1447
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,640
While search parties had found a number of items

1448
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:49,840
that appeared promising that were then collected

1449
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,280
and analyzed by the FBI,

1450
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:55,480
it all seemed to lead precisely nowhere.

1451
01:04:55,480 --> 01:05:01,720
By January of 1937, the story was no longer front page news

1452
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:05,000
and the leads began to slowly dry up.

1453
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:10,480
Among the items discovered were a stolen,

1454
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:14,680
blood-stained automobile, a kitchen knife,

1455
01:05:14,680 --> 01:05:18,400
as well as a shack where a number of clothing items

1456
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,440
both boys and men's clothing, some of them bloody,

1457
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:23,280
were found.

1458
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,360
It was believed that any of these items

1459
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,280
may have been used by the kidnapper,

1460
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,760
but still nothing more materialized.

1461
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,200
- It seems like they literally found all of the things,

1462
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,800
but the guy who did it.

1463
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:36,640
- Yep.

1464
01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:39,880
We can talk about it after when you're done.

1465
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,260
- On Saturday, January 16th, 1937,

1466
01:05:44,260 --> 01:05:47,560
Dr. Mattson issued his first written statement

1467
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:51,800
about the kidnapping, which was both published

1468
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,920
in newspapers and broadcast on the radio.

1469
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,840
First, he thanked the public for its support

1470
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,040
and praised law enforcement or their tireless efforts.

1471
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,640
Then, Dr. Mattson commented on the behavior

1472
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:08,000
of the news media.

1473
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:12,840
True enough, I did have to beg the press to lay off

1474
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,320
and it was trying at times to carry on

1475
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,680
under an overly, under an overly,

1476
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,440
average news service.

1477
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:27,960
But they did withdraw when I requested them to

1478
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:31,640
and continue to cooperate with me in every way.

1479
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,560
And for this, I am thankful.

1480
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:35,400
- Wow.

1481
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,480
- Yes, some other people, we'll talk about it

1482
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,760
in the Patreon mini-sode.

1483
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:43,960
There are some other people with other opinions.

1484
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:46,040
And not just me.

1485
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:49,000
(sniffing)

1486
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,880
Although law enforcement authorities make every effort,

1487
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,520
the kidnapping and murder of Charles Mattson

1488
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,600
has never been solved and remains an open case

1489
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,280
at the federal bureau of investigation.

1490
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:07,440
As of 1961, over 25,000 suspects

1491
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,160
have been investigated and eliminated

1492
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,320
according to the final page of the piece entitled,

1493
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,760
protecting the innocent.

1494
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,560
Law enforcement's sacred task.

1495
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,440
By none other than J. Edgar Hoover,

1496
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,440
housed in the Notre Dame.

1497
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,640
- Notre Dame.

1498
01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:28,640
- Notre Dame.

1499
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:29,520
- I like Dame.

1500
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:32,600
Notre Dame, law review.

1501
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:35,160
- 25,000?

1502
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,200
Is that normal?

1503
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:39,480
I'm gonna go with no.

1504
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,640
- A lot of people.

1505
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,960
- When it's presumably a stranger abduction,

1506
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:47,400
you have a much larger pool.

1507
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:49,120
Wow.

1508
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:54,080
So for anybody that finds themselves obsessed

1509
01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:57,800
with the JonBen��t Ramsey case, I mean, I get it,

1510
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,040
but also like, uh, lurrr.

1511
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:02,440
I mean, we know who did it.

1512
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:08,040
I have theories, but we're not gonna get into that.

1513
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:10,480
All I'm saying is pineapple kills people.

1514
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:12,840
- What?

1515
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:17,360
- Pineapple is a major aspect of that case.

1516
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:18,320
- I don't remember that part.

1517
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:19,160
- Oh my God.

1518
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,000
- Yep.

1519
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:20,840
- Nope.

1520
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:22,000
- It's all last thing.

1521
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,000
- Been a while.

1522
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,200
- Maybe we'll have to talk about that.

1523
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:26,280
I'd be okay with that.

1524
01:08:26,280 --> 01:08:28,280
- Yeah.

1525
01:08:28,280 --> 01:08:31,160
I've never really, I've never really thought

1526
01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,800
about covering JonBen��t.

1527
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:34,160
- I don't know where it's at.

1528
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:35,920
Colorado, I believe.

1529
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:36,760
- Oh.

1530
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:37,600
- Yeah.

1531
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:38,520
- Technically in our jurisdiction.

1532
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,080
- No.

1533
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:42,400
- Our jurisdiction.

1534
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,680
(laughs)

1535
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:46,920
- Yeah, I mean, I'm just reading so much

1536
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:49,960
of J. Edgar Hoover's stuff here

1537
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:51,600
that I think I got a little woo.

1538
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:52,600
- Did you love it?

1539
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:54,240
- Ugh, it was the best thing you ever heard.

1540
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:55,480
- He's kind of the worst.

1541
01:08:55,480 --> 01:08:58,160
I mean, he definitely like tried to do right

1542
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:02,200
by this family, but I mean, he's that sour.

1543
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:04,400
He had his assistants and plumber.

1544
01:09:04,400 --> 01:09:05,240
- Yeah.

1545
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:06,080
- Yeah.

1546
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:06,920
- Yeah.

1547
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:08,240
- Yeah.

1548
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,560
Any who's all, should we get to some tarot?

1549
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:12,720
- Yeah, let's do tarot.

1550
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,360
- Let's get, I'm happy to do tarot.

1551
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:15,200
- She's like, okay, bye.

1552
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:16,040
- Okay, bye.

1553
01:09:16,040 --> 01:09:16,880
- Bye.

1554
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:18,040
(laughs)

1555
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:19,200
- I know, that was so sad.

1556
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:20,040
- I know.

1557
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:22,240
- The poor, I know.

1558
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:23,400
- The poor family.

1559
01:09:23,400 --> 01:09:25,720
- The youngest child too.

1560
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,120
Can you imagine?

1561
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:29,920
And then they have a friend there.

1562
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:30,880
- Yeah, I would just think that.

1563
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,600
- They have a friend there that witnesses that like,

1564
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,840
holy shit, is she your BFF forever?

1565
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:37,880
- I don't know.

1566
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:38,720
- I don't know.

1567
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:39,720
- I'm a bonded, we've talked about it.

1568
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:40,560
- We talked about it.

1569
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:42,160
- You don't have to stay together, but.

1570
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,920
Or does that just like become this thing that like,

1571
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:50,920
is so huge, your relationship just cannot bridge that divide?

1572
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,800
Oh.

1573
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:55,960
(sighs)

1574
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:59,800
And I actually have in the Patreon mini-sau,

1575
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,640
there is something so incredibly tragic about this case

1576
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,640
that predates even Charles's birth.

1577
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:08,120
And I don't wanna give too much away,

1578
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,000
but holy fucking shit,

1579
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,560
when will people stop fucking with the Mattsons?

1580
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,720
I can't, I can't.

1581
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,440
This poor family.

1582
01:10:18,440 --> 01:10:20,040
- I wish they would never fuck with them.

1583
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:25,040
- Yeah, like, zero fucking about with the Mattson family.

1584
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:26,040
Shhh, stop it.

1585
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:29,160
So so sad.

1586
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,160
(whimsical music)

1587
01:10:32,160 --> 01:10:34,920
(Cards shuffling)

1588
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:39,920
(Cards shuffling)

1589
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,720
- So three of wands in the reverse?

1590
01:10:44,720 --> 01:10:45,560
- Yeah.

1591
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:49,440
- Red-tailed hawk adult.

1592
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:50,280
- Yeah.

1593
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:51,480
- It's specifying it's an adult.

1594
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:53,000
- Okay, I think we've gotten this one before

1595
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:54,200
and we've read about the hawk.

1596
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,960
- Oh, 'cause we've got, the two of wands

1597
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:59,840
is a red-tailed hawk, a fledgling.

1598
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:00,680
- Oh.

1599
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,040
- That's not an adult.

1600
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,280
- I assume that's not an adult.

1601
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,560
(laughs)

1602
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,120
- A fledgling, is that like an adolescent?

1603
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:10,760
Like a baby?

1604
01:11:10,760 --> 01:11:12,080
Just a little baby.

1605
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:12,920
- It's not close.

1606
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:13,760
- Oh, check.

1607
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:15,960
- I can't know when I'll, oh well.

1608
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,200
All right, we're gonna keep it moving.

1609
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:23,360
Our keywords for the three of wands are creativity

1610
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:28,360
and skill, self-expression, growth, competence

1611
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,800
and manifestation.

1612
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,120
- It's interesting.

1613
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:33,960
- Okay.

1614
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:38,320
- Now is the time to show the world what you can do.

1615
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:40,400
You've worked hard to develop your talents

1616
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:42,800
and have confidence in your abilities.

1617
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:45,080
You, I really hate this in the application

1618
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:46,240
of like a kidnapper.

1619
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:48,520
- It is reverse, so I'm curious about

1620
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,480
the reverse interpretation of this.

1621
01:11:51,480 --> 01:11:52,720
- Oh, okay.

1622
01:11:52,720 --> 01:11:56,120
- You feel passionately about what you do

1623
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:59,800
and believe you can inspire others, express yourself.

1624
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,480
- Hmm, okay.

1625
01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:03,120
- We've definitely gotten this before.

1626
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:04,960
I think we have the same like reaction.

1627
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:05,800
It's like, ooh.

1628
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,000
- Yeah, itki.

1629
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:08,840
- Okay.

1630
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:11,800
- Ooh.

1631
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:13,640
- Okay, there's an extra excerpt

1632
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,160
before the reverse interpretation.

1633
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,640
It says, hidden alliances, work to move you

1634
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,160
into your authentic vocation,

1635
01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:25,720
as soon as you begin to commit to it.

1636
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,040
- Hmm.

1637
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:32,480
- I get automatically reminds me of what you said

1638
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:35,080
about how there might have been like a getaway driver,

1639
01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:37,280
like other people might have been involved.

1640
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:42,000
And he stayed like hidden, like he had a mask.

1641
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:42,840
- Ooh, I hate that.

1642
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,920
- Obviously like this part is putting like a positive spin

1643
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:49,200
on it, but we know we're gonna relate it to this story

1644
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:50,040
and it's not.

1645
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:51,200
- Yeah.

1646
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:52,760
- Okay.

1647
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,520
- You still have work to do before you go public

1648
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:57,000
with your ideas.

1649
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:58,400
- Oh no.

1650
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,960
Like maybe your generic poorly written demand letter

1651
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:03,560
isn't ideal.

1652
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:04,760
- I needed work.

1653
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:06,120
- Definitely.

1654
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:10,000
- Perhaps you could benefit from honing your skills.

1655
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,760
- Honing your kiddo tie-freader skills.

1656
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,080
- Oh no, I hate that.

1657
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:19,840
Some areas of an undertaking still need clarification.

1658
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:22,200
Oh my God, they literally asked for clarification

1659
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:25,200
in the instructions from, yeah.

1660
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:26,280
And it's resolved.

1661
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,040
- Cookie.

1662
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:32,240
- Or you may need to win the support

1663
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,600
and blessing of others in order to advance.

1664
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,480
- Okay, I'm gonna read the bullet points

1665
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:41,320
and then I might wanna draw in their card.

1666
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:42,760
- In a question about money,

1667
01:13:42,760 --> 01:13:45,520
this card can mean the financial support you need

1668
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:47,760
isn't there at this time.

1669
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:48,600
- What?

1670
01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:50,800
(laughs)

1671
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,840
- You might have to work extra hard for a while

1672
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:54,080
to make ends meet.

1673
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:55,920
Be prudent in spending.

1674
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:57,480
- Oh gosh.

1675
01:13:57,480 --> 01:14:02,080
- In a reading about work, the reverse three

1676
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:07,080
suggests you're not ready yet to market your project slash ideas.

1677
01:14:07,080 --> 01:14:09,240
You feel passionately about what you're doing,

1678
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:13,760
but you still have to convince other people to get on board.

1679
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:14,600
- Yeah.

1680
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:18,240
- For artistic people, this card advises,

1681
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,400
don't give up your day job yet.

1682
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:24,880
- Well, yeah, don't kidnap people.

1683
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:29,320
- Yeah, don't do that professionally or otherwise, ideally.

1684
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:31,800
- I should say kidnap and murder because it was not.

1685
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:32,880
- Yeah.

1686
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:36,440
- It just reminds me of something that you're trying to do

1687
01:14:36,440 --> 01:14:38,240
that isn't going right, basically.

1688
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:40,200
- Yeah, stop trying to make that happen.

1689
01:14:40,200 --> 01:14:43,520
- Ooh, a hawk.

1690
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,120
He was maybe watching the place.

1691
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:48,320
- Oh yeah, that's a really good connection.

1692
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:50,360
This one also has birds.

1693
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:51,360
- Interesting.

1694
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:52,480
- Yeah.

1695
01:14:52,480 --> 01:14:54,040
- Oh, it's a two of cups.

1696
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,240
Oh, that's like the really happy card.

1697
01:14:56,240 --> 01:14:58,840
- It is, it was in reverse.

1698
01:14:58,840 --> 01:14:59,680
- Okay.

1699
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,240
- Okay.

1700
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:07,280
Oh no, oh, this makes sense though, I think.

1701
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:08,120
Oh.

1702
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:13,960
Okay, two of cups, keywords are partnership, harmony,

1703
01:15:13,960 --> 01:15:17,240
creative exchange and cooperation.

1704
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:19,960
In many decks, the two of cups shows a man

1705
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,440
and woman holding chalices as if toasting each other.

1706
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:27,280
The card represents joining forces with someone

1707
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:32,280
either romantically or in a creative slash spiritual endeavor.

1708
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:34,280
- The card keeps coming up when we're talking

1709
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:35,560
about your wedding.

1710
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:36,880
- Yeah, that's true.

1711
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:38,520
Ooh.

1712
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,400
You share a common dream, interest or passion

1713
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,400
and can work together to bring it into being.

1714
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,040
We kept getting it in the upright.

1715
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,400
I feel like as opposed to now we're doing it in the reverse.

1716
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:52,440
Both of these cards are in reverse.

1717
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:53,920
- It just makes me think that he did

1718
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:55,360
how to have like a partner.

1719
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:57,160
- Yeah.

1720
01:15:57,160 --> 01:16:02,160
- I think that seems like maybe a fair assumption.

1721
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:04,000
I don't know.

1722
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,840
- I don't know, I mean, I don't have all of the evidence,

1723
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,120
but yeah, but I think it makes sense.

1724
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,080
And the fact that the investigator is believed that

1725
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,920
based on the fact that it looks like he fled to a car,

1726
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:18,080
you know, right around the corner essentially.

1727
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:19,400
- And the tarot is saying it.

1728
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:20,600
So like it must be true.

1729
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,760
- Yeah, so I mean, the backs, am I right?

1730
01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:27,280
Mutual respect and equality exists between you.

1731
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:34,000
All right, so our reversed interpretation.

1732
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:37,800
When the two of cups appears reversed,

1733
01:16:37,800 --> 01:16:41,600
it suggests disharmony and a lack of cooperation.

1734
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:46,800
I'm picturing two kidnappers just kind of bickering.

1735
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:49,120
Like the guys from home alone or something.

1736
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:51,080
- Yeah. - You know, just like real dumb.

1737
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,000
- It just seems like it because of all of the

1738
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:58,440
miscommunication with the ransom and stuff.

1739
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:02,520
Maybe one of them did want to hurt the child

1740
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:03,760
and one of them didn't.

1741
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:08,760
And I mean, you see that a lot where just kind of they're not aligned.

1742
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:13,400
They're both interested in collecting ransom or a reward,

1743
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:17,080
but they don't have the same values in terms of like,

1744
01:17:17,080 --> 01:17:18,240
I don't want to hurt the kid.

1745
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,760
And the other guys like, I don't really care.

1746
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:22,480
- Yeah, so maybe just like don't do crime.

1747
01:17:22,480 --> 01:17:24,320
- Yeah, so just like don't.

1748
01:17:24,320 --> 01:17:26,080
- So just maybe don't.

1749
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:30,480
- Oof. - Okay.

1750
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:33,600
- It may mean a partnership takes a while to get going

1751
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,320
or that you run into obstacles.

1752
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:39,960
In some cases, it indicates dwindling affection,

1753
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:43,600
inequality or a lack of supportiveness in a relationship.

1754
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:48,200
In a reading about money, the reverse two can signify

1755
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:51,040
an uneven investment of resources.

1756
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:55,400
It can also represent complications or a delay

1757
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:56,720
in receiving money.

1758
01:17:56,720 --> 01:17:58,160
- Wow, okay, yes.

1759
01:17:58,160 --> 01:18:01,200
- Especially from a joint venture, trust,

1760
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,480
divorce settlement or legacy or ransom.

1761
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:07,680
- That's a little, yeah, that feels kind of on the nose.

1762
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,120
- Wow.

1763
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:10,760
- If the reading is about your job,

1764
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:14,200
this card may mean you don't feel a business partner

1765
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:18,520
is pulling his or her weight or you don't get the support you desire.

1766
01:18:19,600 --> 01:18:24,240
It can also point to a lack of cooperation in your workplace.

1767
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:27,840
In a reading about love, the reverse two sometimes represents

1768
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:32,840
a secret liaison or it may point to a period of disharmony

1769
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:35,120
or cooling affection.

1770
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,380
Perhaps there's a lack of balance or equality in a relationship.

1771
01:18:39,380 --> 01:18:42,360
- All of that sounds great.

1772
01:18:42,360 --> 01:18:44,440
- Yeah, I think so.

1773
01:18:44,440 --> 01:18:47,240
And I feel like the kind of the takeaway

1774
01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,600
from both of those cards now kind of makes a little bit more.

1775
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,120
It feels like that hits.

1776
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:55,800
- Okay, I was thinking like what if he is someone

1777
01:18:55,800 --> 01:18:59,040
who migrated over here but with no paperwork or something,

1778
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:00,840
that's why they couldn't find him.

1779
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:01,680
- Oh.

1780
01:19:01,680 --> 01:19:03,400
- Because he had no record.

1781
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:04,920
- Maybe.

1782
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,880
- I feel like that's back then.

1783
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:07,720
- Yeah.

1784
01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:10,840
- It was easier to get into the country without anyone knowing.

1785
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:11,680
- That's true.

1786
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:15,560
Yeah, there's a lot more tomfoolery that could be afloat.

1787
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:16,840
And it's this travel here.

1788
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:19,400
So interesting.

1789
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:21,080
I think I solved it.

1790
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:22,400
- Solved it.

1791
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:24,200
You're welcome.

1792
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,840
- The hawk hopped off the ledge idly,

1793
01:19:26,840 --> 01:19:31,160
unperturbed that their motion was more falling than taking flight.

1794
01:19:31,160 --> 01:19:32,480
Oh my God.

1795
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:34,400
That's like kind of funny.

1796
01:19:34,400 --> 01:19:37,000
'Cause it's like he's just like fumbling through this thing,

1797
01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:40,640
like knocking on the door and then deciding to break it.

1798
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,280
- Well, and then not to mention too,

1799
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,400
like they talked about that really steep embankment

1800
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,320
at the back end of their property.

1801
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:48,840
- It reminds me like Princess Bride

1802
01:19:48,840 --> 01:19:51,000
where they just like rolled in the hills.

1803
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,760
- Little bit, right?

1804
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,920
I mean, oof, I don't know.

1805
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:56,720
That's kind of, it's interesting.

1806
01:19:56,720 --> 01:20:00,320
The visual aspect of that is.

1807
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,000
- It also reminds me of myself getting out of the car

1808
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:04,920
'cause I'm like really bad at getting out of the car.

1809
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:06,600
I just kind of like fall out.

1810
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,000
- I'm really bad at getting out.

1811
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:09,440
- I don't know why it's so hard.

1812
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:13,760
- Mostly bad, but like sometimes the car, I don't know.

1813
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:18,680
They smoothly extend their wings into the turbulence,

1814
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:22,920
calmly feeling for the familiar support of the air.

1815
01:20:22,920 --> 01:20:24,600
Catching it in their feathers,

1816
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:29,040
they directed the momentum of their fall into an upward curve.

1817
01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:32,680
On a rising wind, they circled higher

1818
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:36,440
until they could see the curvature of the horizon

1819
01:20:36,440 --> 01:20:38,880
and the world laid out before them.

1820
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:39,920
- Oh wow.

1821
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,400
- Once stepping from solidarity into the sky

1822
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,160
had been daunting and dangerous.

1823
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:49,000
Now the hawk knew that the risk was not

1824
01:20:49,000 --> 01:20:52,600
in taking the leap, it was in staying still.

1825
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:55,160
- Oh, that's very interesting.

1826
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:56,360
- Yeah.

1827
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:58,640
'Cause that like it, like ransom,

1828
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:01,280
you can't just sit there.

1829
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:02,120
- Well, yeah.

1830
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:02,960
- You have to do something.

1831
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:03,800
- Yeah.

1832
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:04,960
- Yeah.

1833
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,480
It reminds me of like all the FBI agents there too,

1834
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:13,080
like trying not to get in the way too much,

1835
01:21:13,080 --> 01:21:16,200
but it's not wanting to like sit there and do nothing.

1836
01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:17,800
- Yeah.

1837
01:21:17,800 --> 01:21:21,360
- Like the push and pull of the situation.

1838
01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:22,680
- That's interesting.

1839
01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:24,880
- And like the risk too of, you know,

1840
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:27,480
this bird leaping into the air and trying to fly,

1841
01:21:27,480 --> 01:21:29,840
it's like the risk of doing something

1842
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:31,520
and risking this child's life.

1843
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,400
- Yeah.

1844
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:37,960
Wow, I hadn't really thought about it from,

1845
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:41,680
I guess that perspective, that's interesting.

1846
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,200
- That's what I'm here for.

1847
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:44,480
- Yeah, this is a rough one.

1848
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:46,120
- Yeah.

1849
01:21:46,120 --> 01:21:46,960
- Sorry.

1850
01:21:46,960 --> 01:21:48,600
- I don't know why I'm apologizing.

1851
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:49,760
I didn't do this.

1852
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:50,960
- She did it.

1853
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:51,800
- I do worse.

1854
01:21:51,800 --> 01:21:52,640
- No.

1855
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:53,800
- Yeah, I do worse.

1856
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:54,960
- I'm not true at all.

1857
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:55,960
- I don't know if it's debatable.

1858
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:56,800
- No.

1859
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:58,120
- Debate a bone.

1860
01:21:58,120 --> 01:22:02,600
Do you have anything else?

1861
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,440
- No, I have some other notes that I'm gonna,

1862
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:08,840
we'll go through and we'll do our little mini-sode

1863
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:10,840
for Patreon, but.

1864
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:13,120
- Okay, other than that.

1865
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,440
No, we have like so many mini-sodes to catch up on too.

1866
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:19,040
So, Patreon, we're coming.

1867
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:19,880
- Good time.

1868
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:21,600
- It's gonna be on the Patreon.

1869
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:23,360
- We did just do a Patreon bonus.

1870
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:25,280
We released one on, I think it was Friday,

1871
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:26,600
but I posted it.

1872
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,160
- That sounds right.

1873
01:22:28,160 --> 01:22:29,000
- That was yesterday.

1874
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:30,160
Oh my God, it's Saturday.

1875
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:31,680
- Oh, what is happening?

1876
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,520
- Oh, seriously.

1877
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:36,360
- You know, back on Friday when I posted that.

1878
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:38,200
- Well, and when did that episode come out?

1879
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:40,880
'Cause I was like, oh, that's like a little while back.

1880
01:22:40,880 --> 01:22:43,080
- It was, it was the targeted terror

1881
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:44,520
the hornstein family.

1882
01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:46,040
It's night.

1883
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:46,880
- Ooh.

1884
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:47,720
- It was a bonus about that.

1885
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:51,320
So, another fun case that I have covered.

1886
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:54,080
- But the bonus, what it's not as terrifying

1887
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:55,400
at the original.

1888
01:22:55,400 --> 01:22:57,080
- No, I've been trying to find,

1889
01:22:57,080 --> 01:23:01,800
do a little bit of like kind of a deep dive

1890
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:04,240
and sometimes you just come across like an article

1891
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:08,360
that talks about a case or like someone involved in it

1892
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:10,280
from a totally different angle

1893
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:12,600
than everything else that you're reading

1894
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:16,800
or a very specific point in the timeline

1895
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:18,880
or I don't know, something that just doesn't always

1896
01:23:18,880 --> 01:23:20,360
fit neatly.

1897
01:23:20,360 --> 01:23:21,200
- Yeah.

1898
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:24,200
- And sometimes I'm like, I'm not gonna make this a two-parter,

1899
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:29,200
especially because it's like, this is like 1.125 parts,

1900
01:23:29,200 --> 01:23:33,640
really, if you, you know, if you add it all up,

1901
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:38,280
but yeah, there's a lot of, I'm super excited

1902
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,040
for you to hear this mini-side because

1903
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,440
I think there's some synchronicity stuff

1904
01:23:44,440 --> 01:23:46,280
that's gonna like kind of,

1905
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:47,120
- Oh.

1906
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:49,000
- And then knock your sacks off, baby.

1907
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:51,080
- All right, well let's do it.

1908
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:51,920
- Show it.

1909
01:23:51,920 --> 01:23:52,760
- Let's go do that.

1910
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:54,080
- All right, should we say goodbye to the people?

1911
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:54,920
- Yeah, okay.

1912
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:56,440
- Say goodbye to the regular creepy.

1913
01:23:56,440 --> 01:23:58,520
- Where are our manners?

1914
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,760
(laughing)

1915
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,200
- Have a creepy ass day.

1916
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:05,600
See you next Tuesday.

1917
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,320
- See you next Tuesday.

1918
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:09,440
- Please don't ask for a ransom, I guess.

1919
01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:11,640
Like a, it's like a, it's like a,

1920
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,200
- Falling down a hill, yelling for $28,000.

1921
01:24:15,200 --> 01:24:16,480
Come see us instead.

1922
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,480
- Wait, wait, I, I, I, I,

1923
01:24:19,480 --> 01:24:22,200
I've been come like, watch us listen to us,

1924
01:24:22,200 --> 01:24:24,560
be normal person, don't be an asshole.

1925
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,840
- I was like, are you not fighting, kid, that's normal.

1926
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:29,000
- No, no, no, what I meant.

1927
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,280
- Listen to creepy stuff, don't be the creepy stuff.

1928
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:34,120
- That's true.

1929
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:34,960
- Yes.

1930
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:35,800
- Okay.

1931
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:36,800
- Am I the weird one?

1932
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,080
(laughing)

1933
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:40,520
- I really do think that's our news, yeah.

1934
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,040
- We're gonna go ahead and reddit.

1935
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:44,620
(upbeat music)

1936
01:24:44,620 --> 01:24:49,200
- Kind of, yeah, it was like,

1937
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:50,360
- Not a, okay.

1938
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:51,360
- Toyota.

1939
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:52,360
- Yeah.

1940
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,000
- Do you bring a Mitsubishi?

1941
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:55,400
(laughing)

1942
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:56,840
- A Mitsubishi.

1943
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:58,440
- I was gonna say that so funny,

1944
01:24:58,440 --> 01:24:59,640
'cause I wanted to say that,

1945
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,320
but I knew like my mouth couldn't get the word out.

1946
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:04,960
- I was like, God damn it, I was so close.

1947
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:08,280
- I didn't even wanna see the intent that word.

1948
01:25:08,280 --> 01:25:09,720
- Mitsubishi.

1949
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:10,720
- Mitsubishi.

1950
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:13,280
- You're wrong.

1951
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:14,120
- I did.

1952
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:14,960
- I did wanna see, yeah.

1953
01:25:14,960 --> 01:25:16,920
I know I feel like if you say it with an Italian flair,

1954
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:18,640
it's all wrong, but be fun.

1955
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:20,360
- It's all wrong, not right at all.

1956
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:21,280
- No.

1957
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:22,720
- Don't cancel me, please.

1958
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:26,320
- Listen, if saying Mitsubishi that way is wrong,

1959
01:25:26,320 --> 01:25:28,040
I don't wanna be right.

1960
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:31,680
- If you win anything, it's like a vowel, like an eye

1961
01:25:31,680 --> 01:25:32,680
or something.

1962
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:34,720
- I wanna give it the flourish. (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com)