July 23, 2026

Leah Roberts: The Crash That Wasn't an Accident | Unsolved, Bellingham, Washington

Leah Roberts: The Crash That Wasn't an Accident | Unsolved, Bellingham, Washington
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On March 9, 2000, Leah Roberts left her home in Durham, North Carolina, on a Kerouac-inspired cross-country road trip in search of something she couldn’t quite name, telling no one exactly where she was going. At 23, in the wake of multiple personal tragedies she had recently dropped out of college just as graduation was nearly in sight. Days later, she reached Bellingham, Washington.

Five days later her Jeep was found wrecked at the bottom of an embankment, where many important and prized possessions remained but there was no sign of Leah. What investigators would eventually uncover about that crash site would take years to come to light – and it would change everything they thought they knew about the case.

Twenty-six years later, her case remains open. Her family and friends are still searching, hopeful for her eventual recovery – or at least answers.

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WEBVTT

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They found a note reading I'm not suicidal, I'm the opposite.

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WHOA, that's unsettling, Like it shouldn't be that should be

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a good thing. But like, right, why would you need

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to why would you need.

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To say that?

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Yeah exactly, it's like you're trying to convince yourself almost.

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Yes, yeah, it just very much is giving the lady

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doth protest too much to me, you know.

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Yeah.

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Aside from that rather ominous statement, the note made reference

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to Carawac and included a drawing of the Cheshire cat's grin.

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Ooh yeah, Hi Cassie, Hi Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hello,

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what's up? So this is pn W Hants and Homicides,

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where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, Cassie's haunted

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doll stickers.

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Ooh, I'm saying we might have to do patroon on us,

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where I read not haunted doll stickers, because they're funny.

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They are really funny. They're a lot funnier than I

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thought they would be.

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Charlotte thinks they're not funny at all.

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Yeah, she was deeply offended, and that's why she has

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once again decided to go supersonic. So if you hear

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anything that sounds like a tea kettle. It's not because

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it's hot in its summer and we're not drinking hot tea.

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It is, in fact, my tiny, tiny dog.

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Yeah, that thing over there interrupting.

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We just started. Charlotte. I know it's a good thing.

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She's cute. Goodness. She really has no idea how lucky

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she is.

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Maybe we'll figure out how lucky she is in the

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terror reading we do at the end of every episode.

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She won't believe us. But the tower card, you're chaos

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and destruction. She is chaos and destruction. All right, Well

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should we get into this? Yeah, let's do it. What

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are we doing? What do we go?

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Oh?

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So it's this is my episode. So yay, point one

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for the True Crime Team.

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I guess you didn't do a spooky I you.

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Know, know, really, although I do feel like there's it's

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not so much that there's like a haunting related to

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this case, but it does have a very eerie feel

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to it. Oh okay, I don't really know how else

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to say that without just giving away the plot.

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I don't know if that's better or worse. But here

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we go, yep, and then there we go.

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There we done what Yep. By the time Leah was

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twenty two, she had lost both of her parents. And

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here she is on the verge of graduating from college.

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And I think she just really felt lost and didn't

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have a lot of direction. And I feel like she

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took this trip as a soul searching trip, said Kara Roberts,

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reflecting on her sister's state of mind on the Larry

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King Live Show Larry King, Larry King Oldest Wooze done yet?

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You know, I think he's alive. I believe so.

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Yeah.

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In her early twenties, Leah learned guitar, took up photography,

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and adopted a kitten she named b after dropping out

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of North Carolina State University in Raleigh against the wishes

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of her older siblings just months prior to completing her degree.

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I'm sorry, but fuck them. I love all of that.

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I know you do, you girl, Yeah, you do. But

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here's the thing is, if you're that close to graduating

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and you have presumably accumulated, shall we say, perhaps a

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sizeable debt for the degree program that you're about to complete, listen,

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if you're not feeling it, I know, but you're so

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close and you're gonna have to pay for it. It

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literally sounds like something I would do, So, yeah, I know,

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and I just I'm a finisher. I'm a closer. I'm

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not I have a hard time. I can be a

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little bit.

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Of a completionist.

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So that's what she said.

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That is indeed what she said.

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In the short span of just about two years, she

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had lost both of her parents and survived her own

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brush with death after a near fatal car crash.

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Oh shit, yeah, I kind of a lot going through

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a lot, like I can understand. Yeah, like, if you're

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that traumatized, maybe making decisions that are right aren't exactly

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the best, but maybe feel right in the moment for

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what you're going through.

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I don't really know.

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Yeah, I feel like that, And I don't think I'm

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gonna remember the exact phrase, but it's it kind of

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reminds me of like you're coming up with short term

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solutions for a long term problem.

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Yeah.

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You know, from that accident, she'd suffered both a punctured

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lung and shattered her femur, and while she survived, no

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doubt the recovery would be brutal for either singular injury.

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I can say that with some level of certainty because

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I watched my brother recover from I mean, not shattering

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but breaking his femur. It didn't look like that much

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fun kind of ruined this summer. I'm gonna be honest, dude,

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I can't even so. I just I broke my ankle right, like,

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I can't imagine shattering a bone, like a bone that

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you use to walk like, Yeah, mine wasn't that bad.

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And it was bad.

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Yeah, well, and the femur is so serious because people

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can die from that like it. Oh, I mean the

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combination of the two for me is truly unimaginable, Like

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either one of those is really not awesome, and both

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of them at the same time when you've already just

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kind of been through so much and it's like you say,

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it's like you're maybe not in the right headspace for

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good decision making.

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Yeah, no, it doesn't sound like it.

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And you're already young, so we know you're kind of

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you know, you're winging it, you're flying by the city,

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your dumb dumb pants. I'm still doing that, I know.

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I was like, I say that as someone who is

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still very much flying by the seat of their dumb

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dumb pants. Whatever you have a grown up job. You're fine.

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Yeah, I'm that you have a grown up job. You're

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doing great.

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I guess I don't know. I do have a retirement account.

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It does frequently tell me I'm not saving enough, but

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we are. We don't want to talk about mine, You're like,

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I'm like, listen, everyone is assuming that I live long enough. Okay,

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So I feel like we're throwing a lot of eggs

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in that basket. In light of all she'd been through,

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it made sense to those closest to her that it

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seemed like she was searching for something, something like meaning

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or direction, maybe just something different, but it was clearly

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still a very active search. She became deeply drawn to

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the writings of Jack Kerouac, as so many similarly searching

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young people have for decades.

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Now sounds familiar, but I don't know who that is.

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Yeah, you know, I'll be honest, I have I've never

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really gotten into like reading his you know, on the

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road or it sounds really interesting.

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Maybe we should. Yeah, I feel like I might just.

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Kind of be at a point in my life where

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I don't know if I would appreciate it in the

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same way because I'm I'm just I'm past the point

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of where I'm like, oh, I'll sleep on the floor

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or you know this or that, just so that I

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can have the adventure.

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You know, a venture av.

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I'm like, I'm down for an adventure if they have

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clean linens, yes, and a comfortable mattress okay, and hopefully

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they've preferably also chilled my wine prior to arrival.

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Toilets are a must. Oh god, a clean toilet is

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a must. Clean toilet. Yeah, that's kind of key.

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I can't go anywhere without my wipeies. If you're that way,

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it's the toilets not clean. You can clean it with

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the wipeies.

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It's kind of I mean, but it's so true. How

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did we ever live before white flushable white bees? I

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have no idea how I survived. I don't know. I

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don't know.

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Billy Paper just didn't cutting it.

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At one point, she had discussed with her roommate Nicole

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and another friend Janine, her desire to take a Carauhac

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inspired road trip west, which is to say, apparently like

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kind of like the rough and tumble, kind of definitely

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not staying in like three star, four star, probably really

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like no star accommodations. Do you know what that is?

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What that's Carol? Whack bro Sorry, I had to How

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did you know that was going to come?

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Because it was obvious. I had to make the obvious joke.

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It was right there.

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It's because I'm sensing something bad. It's going to happen,

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and so I'm trying to stall and bunnies anything I.

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Can kill four hours. But let's circle back to the beginning.

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Leah Toby Roberts was born July twenty third in nineteen

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seventy six in Durham, North Carolina. She was the youngest

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of three children born to Nancy in Stancil Roberts. Leah

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was known to those who loved her as an intelligent, introspective,

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and deeply curious person, someone drawn to philosophy, literature, and

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big questions about life and meaning. She was fluent in Spanish,

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as well as both a vegetarian and a smoker.

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Hey now balanced, Yeah, and so.

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To me, it just seems an odd contradiction to be

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a vegetarian and also a smoker, Like those two lifestyle

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choices are not necessarily diametrically opposed, but it's just an

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observation as an outside outside you know, to her inner world,

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and I don't know, not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people

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like hold really health conscious or ethical food choices alongside

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other habits that kind of work against those same goals.

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We all contain multitudes.

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I actually wasn't able to find whether she was a

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vegetarian for whether it was like more of a health

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choice or more of like an ethical consideration.

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I don't know so, but I just didn't like it

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meets yeah, gross, Like most of the time, I don't

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really like meat that much.

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It just I mean, obviously I'll eat pepperoni and a pizza.

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But like if I think about it too much, or

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if I'm like chewing like steak, because you have like

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when it's chewy, I don't know if it's it just

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depends on the mood and what I'm thinking about, and

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if it's infiltrating. I can get grossed out by meat

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like pretty quickly.

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It's not hard to do, even as someone that is

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definitely a meditarian. She had a strong Southern accent and

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beauty mark on the right side above her upper lip.

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Oh, I love a beauty mark. I know, so, Marilyn

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of her I know, even though Marilyn's was fake.

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It's fine. Yeah, I think I knew that at some point,

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and then I always forget because it was such like

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a core thing.

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It is fake, right, I'm positively I don't know. Google

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now I'm down.

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I know Google it it was real. It's real.

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That's what Google is.

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That Why did I think it was fake? So here's

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what it says. Yes, Marilyn Monroe's famous mole was real,

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but it wasn't always as dark as it appeared on screen. Oh.

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She naturally had a faint, flesh toned mole on her

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lower left cheek, which she regularly traced and accentuated using

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an eyebrow pencil to create her iconic dark beauty mark. Okay,

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that's why. Okay, so it looks fake because she was

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like doing.

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It up, and if you're wearing like makeup, obviously you

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know you have to like either swab it off to

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like have a show or like yeah color.

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Yeah, okay, so we're it was both fake and real. Yeah,

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huh huh. Known for her warm and engaging personality, when

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Lea was enrolled at NCSU, her course of study was

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a double major in Spanish and anthropology, though for many

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the college experience isn't without challenges. Her college years were

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marked by compounding personal tragedy. It was during her sophomore

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year that her mother, Nancy, died suddenly of heart disease.

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It was soon after, in the fall of nineteen ninety eight,

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when Leah was involved in the car accident that could

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have claimed her life. The resulting injury to her femur

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requiring surgery that left a metal rod the length of

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her right femur and a surgical scar on her right hip. Shit, yeah,

231
00:14:01.919 --> 00:14:06.440
pretty intense, but surprisingly, she told her sister Kara, she

232
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:10.879
felt born again after her recovery. As someone who's never

233
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:13.679
broken a bone, I have to imagine it has to,

234
00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:16.960
in some respects be kind of a transformative experience.

235
00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:20.279
I'll have to ask my brother, we're going to bone

236
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:20.879
that badly?

237
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:21.240
Yeah?

238
00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:22.440
Yeah, I don't know.

239
00:14:22.600 --> 00:14:25.240
He was so young, Like, was that your experience, like

240
00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:29.159
even at a like pre k age, or is that only.

241
00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:30.879
When it happens like as an adult.

242
00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.960
I feel born again. That's because my memory showed up.

243
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:36.559
I don't remember anything else for her memory so short.

244
00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:42.080
I'm starting over. The third and final blow in the

245
00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.639
spring of nineteen ninety eight, just three weeks before she

246
00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.360
was scheduled to leave for a field work slash study

247
00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:55.440
program in Costa Rica, her father's Stancil, who had battled

248
00:14:55.799 --> 00:15:00.320
a chronic lung illness since Leo was seventeen, died well.

249
00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:06.360
So from what I understand, because he had been kind

250
00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:13.440
of chronically ill, I think that her, even though her

251
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.600
mother died first, it was like she was so actively

252
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.039
like kind of trying to caretake for him that it

253
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:21.600
was like kind of one of those situations where you

254
00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:24.360
like forget to take about, like take care of yourself

255
00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:28.000
in a way, which I think is like, that's just

256
00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:31.360
really sad. It's hard because you know that's like the

257
00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:35.480
love of her life. And and then you know, for Leah,

258
00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:40.159
now she's lost both both of her parents. Yeah, I know,

259
00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:44.679
she decided to go to Costa Rica anyway because she

260
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:48.480
no longer had living parents. She granted her sister Kara,

261
00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:52.360
power of attorney over her bank accounts before leaving the country.

262
00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.720
Her brother said she wanted to see the world and

263
00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.440
spread her wings. And I feel like at that point,

264
00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:01.679
you've earned it. You know, you've been through a lot,

265
00:16:02.279 --> 00:16:04.279
and I think people deserve to be able to go

266
00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.080
and have experiences and travel regardless.

267
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:11.639
But it's like, girl, you, more than anybody, know that

268
00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:15.879
life can be so short. Yes, yeah, you know that

269
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:16.919
is very true.

270
00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:20.320
Leah spoke to her sister Kara, and though her plans

271
00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:26.000
for the future were very uncertain, their conversation seemed relatively normal,

272
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:31.519
ending with warm sisterly regards, the pair both apparently expecting

273
00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:36.240
to see each other soon. That was March ninth, two thousand.

274
00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.240
That same afternoon, Leah agreed to join Nicole for a

275
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.679
babysitting gig the following day, but Leah missed the babysitting

276
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.759
appointment the next day. So this is after she's returned

277
00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.960
from Costa Rica. Just to kind of like clarify in

278
00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:57.080
terms of the timeline, okay, I just thought it was like,

279
00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:01.559
it's a really unique thing because I feel like having

280
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.160
you know, in such a short time, like her mom

281
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:07.759
had already passed away the year prior.

282
00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:10.559
But then her dad dies less than a month.

283
00:17:10.480 --> 00:17:13.000
Before she's supposed to go to Costa Rica. I could

284
00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:16.519
understand the temptation to be like, I can't, like I

285
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.960
just don't have it in me to still go and

286
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:22.559
do this trip. But you know, she went, and this

287
00:17:22.759 --> 00:17:25.720
is after she's come back. But later in the day,

288
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.640
when Nicole returned, Leah and her white nineteen ninety three

289
00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:31.480
jeep Cherokee were gone.

290
00:17:32.359 --> 00:17:35.519
No, I love a jeep Cherokee Cheroke.

291
00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:41.599
Because Leah hadn't kept a consistent schedule since dropping out

292
00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:46.039
of school, Nicole wasn't initially concerned. She was like, eh,

293
00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.599
I mean, yeah, she said she'd come do the babysitting

294
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:54.079
with me, and like she didn't show up, but like, eh, whatever,

295
00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.920
you know, and now she's not here when I come home.

296
00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.359
But like she doesn't have a normal like nine to

297
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:02.799
five or you.

298
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:04.559
Know, she's a free spirit.

299
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:09.799
Yeah. However, by March eleventh, when she was still unreachable

300
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:14.960
the family and friends trying to contact her, they were

301
00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.799
growing pretty worried. Two days later, on March nineteenth, Kara

302
00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:24.720
reported her missing to the Durham Police Department. On March fourteenth,

303
00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:28.799
Kara and Nicole searched Leah's room. It was apparent to

304
00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:31.759
them that a number of personal items and much of

305
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.920
her clothing were missing. And I'd argue the biggest giveaway

306
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:39.880
so was b No the kiddy for kitty.

307
00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:41.279
I love that cat.

308
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.039
I don't know this cat. I know I don't. I

309
00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:47.759
looked so hard to try to find like pictures of

310
00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:53.680
her too, and the yeah, they found a note reading

311
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.480
I'm not suicidal, I'm the opposite.

312
00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:02.680
Whoa, that's unsaide like it shouldn't be that should be

313
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:05.039
a good thing. But right, why would you need to

314
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:05.680
why would you.

315
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:06.880
Need to say that? Yeah?

316
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:12.319
Exactly, It's like you're trying to convince yourself almost yes, yeah,

317
00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:15.480
it just very much is giving the lady doth protest

318
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.640
too much to me?

319
00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.400
You know, yeah, weird okay.

320
00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.880
Aside from that rather ominous statement, the note made reference

321
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:29.279
to Kerawhak and included a drawing of the Cheshire cat's

322
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:34.799
grin ooh yeah. Alongside the note was enough money to

323
00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:39.000
cover expenses for their apartment for roughly a month. Using

324
00:19:39.079 --> 00:19:42.680
her power of attorney, Kara was able to access Leah's

325
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:50.200
bank records. Leah's route had been partially reconstructed through bank records, receipts,

326
00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:55.799
and confirmed sightings. Leah had withdrawn several thousand dollars on

327
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.480
the afternoon of March ninth. Her debit card had been

328
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:03.359
used for a motel room near Memphis, then for gas

329
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:07.119
and food along a route, suggesting she was traveling west

330
00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.480
on I forty and then north on I five after

331
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:13.000
reaching California.

332
00:20:13.759 --> 00:20:16.119
Oh okay, I made it to the PNW.

333
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.240
The last activity on her accounts was a gas purchase

334
00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:27.680
shortly after midnight on March thirteenth in Brooks, Oregon. Investigators

335
00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.599
would learn from one of Leah's friends that she had

336
00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:35.920
talked specifically about wanting to visit Desolation Peak in Washington,

337
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.920
inspired by Kerouac's tenure there as a fire lookout in

338
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.839
nineteen fifty six. So it's a gorgeous spot. It overlooks

339
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:50.640
Ross Lake and I looked you unfortunately cannot stay there.

340
00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:55.200
It's a great loss to the Kerouac community well, and

341
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:58.440
just people that enjoy the great outdoors. But it's beautiful.

342
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.240
You can definitely still hike it. It is apparently a

343
00:21:02.519 --> 00:21:04.319
pretty challenging hike.

344
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:06.680
So it looks like it would be. It looks high

345
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:08.440
up and it's like in the mountains.

346
00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:12.400
It is. Yeah, it's it's like desolate is the word

347
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:16.519
for sure. Can't breathe up there that, yeah, the air

348
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:21.799
would be thinner. As they continued to investigate, police recovered

349
00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.920
security camera footage from the gas station in Brooks, Oregon

350
00:21:26.759 --> 00:21:31.039
just before one am on March thirteenth. It shows Leah

351
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.880
alone no obvious signs of distress, but in the short

352
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:39.440
time she appeared on screen while completing her transaction, her

353
00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:43.519
gaze kept straying towards the parking lot because there apparently

354
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.039
weren't any cameras placed outside or that had a clear

355
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.039
view of the parking lot. It's unclear what or who

356
00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:51.400
she might have been looking at.

357
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:56.599
Why not put cameras on the park lot?

358
00:21:57.039 --> 00:22:01.279
Honestly, honestly because especially those little kind of gas station

359
00:22:01.559 --> 00:22:07.839
mini mart type, you know, businesses, they get robbed frequently

360
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:11.960
or they have to deal with all kinds of situations.

361
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:15.240
I just yeah, I will never understand. But it was

362
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.799
a different time. This was This was like nine to eleven,

363
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:22.920
hadn't even happened. Okay, so was twenty six years ago,

364
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:28.400
basically damn. That same day, Leah arrived in Bellingham, Washington,

365
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.319
roughly a five to six hour drive from Bricks, Oregon.

366
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.319
Just after one thirty that afternoon, she bought a ticket

367
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:40.599
to a two ten showing of the movie American Beauty

368
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:46.680
Oh Snap, Yeah at the bellis Fair Mall Theater. So

369
00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:52.119
that also is like dating this era. Horde is the

370
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.039
ticket stub later found in a keepsake box in her jeep.

371
00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:00.559
Is how her arrival in Bellingham was confirmed. Near the

372
00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:05.279
theater was the mall's reportedly only sit down restaurant, Elephant

373
00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:09.519
and Castle. Police interviewed two men that had also been

374
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.559
there that evening who had spoken with her about her

375
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:15.559
Carauac inspired road trip.

376
00:23:16.200 --> 00:23:17.640
One man called into.

377
00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.480
Authorities and the other they were able to track down,

378
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:24.799
but the two had differing stories. The first man they

379
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:28.960
spoke to after he came forward, said he hadn't seen

380
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.200
Leah leave there with anyone. Barry enters the chat when

381
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:38.680
police hear the second man's story. He said Leah left

382
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.519
with a man that night that he heard her call

383
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:43.400
Barry Berry.

384
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:45.079
Okay.

385
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.079
He was able to describe Barry in such great detail

386
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:52.200
that they had him work with a sketch artist. Not

387
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:55.960
only did the other man not recall seeing Barry, but

388
00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:01.039
neither did any of the other restaurant customers. Was Barry

389
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:05.640
a ghost? I mean? Is this the eerie par that's

390
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:09.839
so weird? Law enforcement may have been more inclined to

391
00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:13.400
believe the first man, as he had readily come forward

392
00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:16.839
rather than waiting to be tracked down, but it doesn't

393
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.519
seem as though they dismissed the barrier of it all,

394
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:24.000
like outright, they fully followed this up, but Barry only

395
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:28.240
existed in the mind and recollection of the second man

396
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:29.839
that had been sitting.

397
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.160
Next to Why would you make that up too?

398
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:36.559
That is so weird, right, Yeah, why would you make

399
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:37.000
that up?

400
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:39.759
Is he Berry? It's hard to say.

401
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:43.440
I don't believe the identity of most of these people

402
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.640
that are, you know, witnesses after the fact. I don't

403
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:51.799
think that their identities have really been released publicly.

404
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:55.599
Not saying he's guilty, But that is interesting that if

405
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:59.319
everyone else, nobody else remembers Barry.

406
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:01.960
But means it's like you made up Berry and you

407
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:04.599
attacked her after she left. That's why no one else

408
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:05.680
remembers anything.

409
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:07.640
I'm not saying that happen.

410
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:10.240
That's just what is going through my mind.

411
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:15.480
Yeah, it doesn't seem an unreasonable theory.

412
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:16.920
Okay, man number two?

413
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:17.440
Who are you?

414
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:18.400
Man number two?

415
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.160
It was five days after the last sighting of Leah,

416
00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:26.279
early on the morning of March eighteenth, two thousand, that

417
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.880
a couple jogging along Canyon Creek Road made discovery on

418
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.440
a side route of the Mount Baker Highway in Wacom County,

419
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:39.480
roughly thirty miles east of Bellingham. They noticed clothing near

420
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.960
the top of a slope. Now, depending on the source,

421
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:47.319
the clothing was found either hanging on the trees or

422
00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:49.559
is other descriptions.

423
00:25:49.480 --> 00:25:51.519
State tied to them.

424
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:57.200
Okay, both are a bit odd just given the location,

425
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:03.279
but one is I think decidedly creepier tied. Mm hmmm, okay, good,

426
00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:04.799
I'm glad we're on the same page about that.

427
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:08.079
Unless it's windy and she didn't want them to blow away,

428
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:09.759
I don't know.

429
00:26:11.079 --> 00:26:15.799
It's weird either way. That caught their attention, of course,

430
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.519
because they're like, what are these clothes doing here? Yeah,

431
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:24.799
as any good Samaritan or sacrificial lamb in a horror movie,

432
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:28.839
would they continued to follow the trail. Were the clothes

433
00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:33.440
like on different trees? You know, it's not described in

434
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:37.000
enough detail. It seems like it was a singular tree. Okay.

435
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:39.960
I think that just caught their attention, and then they

436
00:26:40.279 --> 00:26:42.119
kind of continued.

437
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:43.839
Along because I'm like, the trail if the clothes were

438
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:47.599
tied to different trees from yes, like you're trying to

439
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:50.319
find your way back or something or exactly.

440
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:54.160
Yeah, that would be a completely valid reason I supposed

441
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:55.359
to do to do that.

442
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:58.559
Eventually, they found Leah's white.

443
00:26:58.480 --> 00:27:03.599
Jeep Cherokee at the bottom of a steep embankment, severely damaged.

444
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:07.799
As of course, the location would imply down an embankment

445
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:10.279
is not usually where you want your car to go.

446
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:15.000
No, please, Just in case that was unclear, they called

447
00:27:15.079 --> 00:27:15.680
nine to one one.

448
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:20.000
Several things stood out to deputies immediately upon arriving to

449
00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:23.160
the remote scene. I mean, number one, it's remote. The

450
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.319
vehicle's broken windows had been covered with blankets and pillows.

451
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:30.480
It looked like someone may have been using it for shelter.

452
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:35.440
The North Carolina plate JVP DASH two eight eight one

453
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:39.279
traced back to the missing persons report Kara had filed.

454
00:27:40.480 --> 00:27:45.839
They were able to recover Lea's driver's license, passport, credit card, checkbook,

455
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:51.599
guitar CDs, and twenty four hundred dollars in cash from

456
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:57.319
the vehicle. Perhaps even more significantly, though, items.

457
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:59.000
That were not found.

458
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:06.480
Leah, Right, Leah, that's a pretty significant Her cat carrier

459
00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:09.960
along with cat food were found, but there was no

460
00:28:10.119 --> 00:28:11.480
sign of be Oh.

461
00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:15.079
Also found underneath.

462
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:19.160
The driver's side floor Matt a prized piece of jewelry

463
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:24.039
that Leah had never been known to willingly remove her

464
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.160
mother's wedding ring.

465
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:29.880
Oh, that's suspicious, right ominous, And.

466
00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.359
In a spot where even if someone was going to

467
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.319
be rummaging through the vehicle, they might not come across that.

468
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:39.839
It kind of seems like they're like, you're trying to

469
00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:43.279
make an effort to protect it. But robbery did not

470
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:48.039
appear to be a motive or whatever occurred with so

471
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.720
many valuables left behind in her vehicle, Well, sure a

472
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:54.640
cat napper, right is it a valuable cat? I don't know.

473
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:58.359
Nothing I have learned has led me to believe that's

474
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:02.960
the case, but as possible, but there was little evidence

475
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:06.720
to support any other theories of foul play. There was

476
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:11.519
no blood or shattered glass, no signs of injury, or

477
00:29:11.799 --> 00:29:16.279
any evidence of a struggle. Leah's siblings, Kara and Heath,

478
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:20.440
flew to Bellingham within days. They visited the spot where

479
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.839
her vehicle had been discovered. They worked with the Sheriff's office,

480
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:30.960
creating and distributing flyers throughout Bellingham, asking locals they encountered

481
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:36.039
if anyone had seen their sister. Washington State Patrol investigators

482
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:39.960
determined the jeep had been traveling at nearly forty miles

483
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.039
per hour uphill before going over the embankment, rolling multiple

484
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:50.960
times on its downward trajectory nikes. A vehicle losing control

485
00:29:51.200 --> 00:29:54.559
or a driver braking in an emergency would typically leave

486
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.799
skid marks, but on the road above the embankment, none

487
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:02.240
were found. Their absence suggested that Jeep had not left

488
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:06.000
the road by accident, or maybe she just couldn't see

489
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:08.920
how many lights are up there, you know, Yeah, I

490
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:12.519
guess it's hard to say too. We don't know when

491
00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:17.160
necessarily this occurred. You know. It could have been broad daylight,

492
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:20.039
could have been late at night. Oh yeah, we don't

493
00:30:20.039 --> 00:30:23.319
really have a way to know for sure. Search teams

494
00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:27.839
covered the surrounding terrain extensively in the weeks that followed,

495
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:33.680
utilizing cadaver dogs and helicopters throughout early April, as well

496
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.920
as metal detectors. The latter would be capable of locating

497
00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:39.640
the metal rod in Leah's lake.

498
00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:43.359
Oh yeah, genius.

499
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.599
If they were to recover remains that were not immediately identifiable.

500
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:54.720
Such medical devices typically also have serial numbers for identification. Still,

501
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:58.000
nothing was found, not a single trace of Leah or

502
00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:02.319
her kitten. The absence of physical trace, no footprints or

503
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:07.640
clothing fragments, no biological evidence anywhere in the surrounding terrain

504
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.119
is one of the most unsettling aspects of the case.

505
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.319
What about the clothes? Are the where those hers?

506
00:31:14.559 --> 00:31:15.680
Or was that just random?

507
00:31:16.359 --> 00:31:16.559
You know?

508
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.279
I really didn't find where that was conclusively determined.

509
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:21.720
Huh.

510
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.920
So, I mean when I say that, like all of that,

511
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:28.519
like the lack of any trace that, it's like, that's

512
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:33.279
so unsettling. It's like it's just especially given how extensive

513
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:34.079
the search was.

514
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.119
That's what makes it so eerie. That is weird.

515
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:41.519
About a week after the jeep was found, an anonymous

516
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.920
man called the wocom County Sheriff's office to report that

517
00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:49.960
his wife had seen a woman matching Leah's description, disoriented

518
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:54.599
and confused at a Texico gas station in Everett, Washington,

519
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:55.880
near Seattle.

520
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.519
How far away is that from there? From where the

521
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:01.440
car was like an hour away?

522
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.519
It looks like, is that right? No, it's actually like

523
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.720
two hours away. I mean it's not close. My recollection

524
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.960
was more like three hours, to be honest. But yeah,

525
00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:13.960
I mean it's just it's.

526
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:17.200
Not close, but on foot it would be like forever.

527
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:21.359
Yeah, exactly like, she doesn't have a vehicle, so it

528
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.960
does kind of start to like some other questions kind

529
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:28.240
of start ruminating in your mind. Though the man seemed

530
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.880
a bit panicked and hung up before identifying himself, the

531
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:37.519
police considered that tip credible, though it does not appear

532
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.839
that it actually led to any particular breakthrough in the case.

533
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:46.799
Following the crash and her subsequent disappearance, Leah's jeep remained

534
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:50.440
in the custody of the Wokam County Sheriff's Office for years.

535
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:57.279
In that time, the car was never fully processed. Why

536
00:32:58.119 --> 00:33:01.200
it's a really good question full and like a missing

537
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:02.720
person's investigation.

538
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:06.640
You know, it's funny you should say that. It wasn't

539
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:08.119
until two thousand and six.

540
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:12.400
When investigators began re examining the case, that a critical

541
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:17.200
discovery was made. Oh weird. I know what, you process

542
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:21.359
all of the evidence, you find something what holy shit,

543
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:23.359
holy shit balls.

544
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:24.960
I'm trying to tell you how to do your job.

545
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.599
Well a little bit, a little bit, just a little

546
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:32.319
They opened the hood of her jeep for the first time.

547
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.799
I don't want to know, literally hadn't even opened the hood,

548
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:37.359
Like what.

549
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.880
If you're looking for a cat right, hullu he lure. Yeah,

550
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:51.599
a cat in particular, they are really like cats, squirrels

551
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.400
other small mammals. They are very well known for trying

552
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:57.359
to like hide in engine blocks and stuff, especially when

553
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.519
it's cold. Huh.

554
00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:01.359
Thankfully, that's not why we're here.

555
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:04.240
Okay, good, but still like that's the first place you

556
00:34:04.359 --> 00:34:05.559
look for a damned cat of car.

557
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:10.519
I don't literally, if you removed the engine from the car,

558
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:15.079
you could presumably also fit a whole ass human in there.

559
00:34:15.440 --> 00:34:18.840
So the fact that they never opened it is fucking wild.

560
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.639
Oh yeah, she could have been in there. She could

561
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:23.679
have been Is that likely?

562
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:27.360
No, but people are fucking weird, especially murderers.

563
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:30.840
Yeah, there could have been a fucking note, anything. There

564
00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:34.119
could have been a gun, literally anything.

565
00:34:34.360 --> 00:34:36.599
Whoa, that's crazy to me.

566
00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.519
Yep. So they opened the hood of her jeep for

567
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:46.320
the very first motherfucking time, which is insane. Everybody take

568
00:34:46.360 --> 00:34:48.880
a deep breath and process that. What are they find?

569
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:52.280
And found that the cover for the starter relay had

570
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:56.519
been removed and a wire had been cut. My official

571
00:34:56.599 --> 00:35:00.199
assessment was that you should never cut wires in your

572
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.760
car if you're anything like me, and for the most

573
00:35:02.800 --> 00:35:06.239
part don't really know what they do, good things slightly

574
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:11.320
more mechanically inclined. People have offered explanation of the significance

575
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.760
on this one, because I don't know a break line?

576
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.360
What is it? The modification would apparently allow the jeep

577
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.159
to accelerate on its own or from outside the vehicle,

578
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.000
simply by pushing on the relay, so as long as

579
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:31.039
the key was in the ignition, it could accelerate without

580
00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:31.760
a driver.

581
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.159
Essentially what that is?

582
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.400
I don't understand this at all. I should have looked

583
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:41.880
up like YouTube videos to like make my brain understand

584
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:43.760
the mechanics of this better.

585
00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.239
It felt like a little bit of a rabbit hole.

586
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.280
But why wouldn't the car just stop working if something

587
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.840
is cut? Just it stopped in a workie?

588
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:58.639
No more cut it cut makes it worky extra hard.

589
00:35:58.760 --> 00:35:59.719
That makes no sense.

590
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:00.679
I'm terrified.

591
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:03.760
I'm getting rid of my cheep cherokey right this instant.

592
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:08.719
I don't like this at all all. This meant that

593
00:36:08.920 --> 00:36:12.000
Lea's jeep could be sent down the embankment with no

594
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:18.239
one inside of it, apparently confirming what investigators had long suspected.

595
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:23.960
The crash had been deliberately staged, and the tampering itself

596
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:26.840
required real mechanical knowledge.

597
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.400
Damn, I'm scared. Yeah, it is scary.

598
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:36.239
They also recovered fingerprints from the underside of the hood.

599
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:39.000
No shit, weird, almost like.

600
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:42.119
Somebody had opened the hood and did that thing and

601
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:43.480
then they left their prints there.

602
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:46.079
But how would you know that if you never opened it?

603
00:36:46.199 --> 00:36:47.159
How many years after?

604
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:52.000
Six years later, in two thousand and seven, Watcom County

605
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:56.000
detectives sent several articles of Leah's clothing to the FBI

606
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:00.880
for DNA testing. By twenty ten, a small amount of

607
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.840
male DNA was identified on an article of clothing found

608
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:07.480
near the scene. I don't know if that was in

609
00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:11.119
the trees or if it was just found near her car. Unclear,

610
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.280
But all these years later, no update has been made

611
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:20.920
available to the public. The possessor of that male DNA

612
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:26.119
his identity, if it is known, has also never been

613
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:26.840
made public.

614
00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:30.239
So if they identified who that DNA belonged to, they

615
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:36.079
have never said. I'm irritated, because it's honestly pretty fucking irritating.

616
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:38.960
Can you imagine if they had this information.

617
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.599
Right when they found a basic What we do know

618
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:48.719
is that the technology related to DNA testing and processing

619
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:51.920
matches and all of that it's made leaps and bounds,

620
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:52.719
all of.

621
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:54.519
These strides and advancements.

622
00:37:55.199 --> 00:37:57.719
I don't know, you know what result they would have

623
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.599
gotten from the DNA back in two thousand in versus

624
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:03.280
two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, twenty ten.

625
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:06.840
But at least you would have collected it. You could

626
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:10.000
say you did it, which feels like, if nothing else,

627
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:12.000
check the motherfucking box.

628
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:12.719
You know.

629
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:13.960
Pretty wild.

630
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:18.440
Both discoveries led investigators back to the second man from

631
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:22.119
the restaurant, the one who claimed to have seen Leah

632
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:22.800
leave with.

633
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:24.400
Barry, the fake Barry.

634
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:28.440
He had a military background and experience as a mechanic,

635
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:32.360
which made the nature of the tampering particularly relevant to

636
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:34.079
his potential involvement.

637
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:36.760
I told you he did it. I called it. From

638
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:39.159
the moment you said you talked about it.

639
00:38:39.199 --> 00:38:39.920
I was like, he did it.

640
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:41.519
You're gonna that guy.

641
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:45.719
You're gonna really have some oh shit moments here. I

642
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:48.159
don't know that they're going to be that satisfying. I'm

643
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:51.719
gonna I'm gonna lead with that so that I'm you know,

644
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.119
tempering your expectations. He had since relocated to the Great

645
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:03.719
Wild North aka Canada, requiring investigators to work with Canadian

646
00:39:03.800 --> 00:39:08.280
authorities to obtain his fingerprints and DNA in two thousand

647
00:39:08.280 --> 00:39:10.960
and eight. His fingerprints were compared to the print found

648
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:14.719
under the hood, but they weren't a match. Okay.

649
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:15.880
Whatever.

650
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:22.000
The DNA comparison result has never been publicly disclosed. As

651
00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:26.760
of the most recent sourcing available, more than twenty five

652
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:31.239
years after Lea disappeared, it still hasn't been One would

653
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.519
assume if it had been a match, there might have

654
00:39:34.599 --> 00:39:39.119
been movement in the case. But if that's all they had,

655
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:43.360
maybe not. Maybe just the presence of his DNA on

656
00:39:43.719 --> 00:39:47.360
an article of her clothing wouldn't be enough. Also, keep

657
00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:52.079
this in mind because he's in Canae area. Plenty of

658
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:57.000
countries have been reticent to relinquish citizens to our nation

659
00:39:58.159 --> 00:40:03.440
in the past, frequently quite fond of lengthy incarceration as

660
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:04.840
well as capital punishment.

661
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:07.519
They don't want to send people back.

662
00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:12.360
We can't extradite a lot of people in a lot

663
00:40:12.440 --> 00:40:16.719
of countries because we have the death penalty. They will

664
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:20.800
not send them here. That's interesting, So it could be

665
00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:24.239
something related to that. I don't know, that's honestly, you know,

666
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:29.880
speculation on my part and you know, other parties on

667
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:31.119
the internet.

668
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:35.199
You know what I'm hearing in my head about like America.

669
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:40.880
The other countries are the gingerbread man from Shrek You're

670
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:41.800
a Monster.

671
00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:43.719
Yeah, pretty much.

672
00:40:44.320 --> 00:40:47.920
I would say that that's a really good that's a

673
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:51.639
meme of of sort of the whole deal.

674
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.679
Yeah, yeah, I like it. Sums it up nicely.

675
00:40:54.760 --> 00:40:59.320
I think Leah leaving the Bellis Fair restaurant with a

676
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:03.239
man she called Barry remains one of the most contested

677
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:07.880
claims related to the case for obvious reasons.

678
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:10.239
I don't believe in Berry at all, not for a second.

679
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.880
I kind of think Barry is perhaps a ghost or

680
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.480
a figment of someone's imagination. It's hard to say, but

681
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:21.440
seems reasonable enough to me. This is about as close

682
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.719
to like a haunting as I've gotten, I think in

683
00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:29.159
a while. Only one of the two men interviewed reported

684
00:41:29.239 --> 00:41:32.800
seeing a third person. No other patron or staff member

685
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:38.519
corroborated it. Whether Berry existed has never been established, at

686
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:41.239
least in relation to this case. Nobody is saying that

687
00:41:41.400 --> 00:41:46.159
all berries are fictional, only that this supposed berry allegedly

688
00:41:46.360 --> 00:41:52.480
might be All berries are birds aren't real.

689
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:54.320
Have you watched that show Berry?

690
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:54.960
No?

691
00:41:55.320 --> 00:41:56.400
Oh my god, you should watch it.

692
00:41:56.679 --> 00:42:00.320
Okay, it's difficult to say for sure base on the

693
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:04.599
available information, but no one matching the police sketch description

694
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.800
has ever been identified or located. That's the other thing.

695
00:42:09.400 --> 00:42:13.639
If you have a sketch and that's been released, you know,

696
00:42:13.880 --> 00:42:19.880
at at any level, you would think usually someone comes

697
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.519
forward and goes, hey, you know, I do have this

698
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:26.039
friend and like this. Even this happens in a lot

699
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:28.480
of cases where they're like, well, their name isn't Barry,

700
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.960
but I do know a guy that looks like that,

701
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:35.519
you know, Like, I don't know whether the witness was

702
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:42.239
reporting something he genuinely saw, attempting to mislead investigators, or

703
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:47.480
himself involved in what happened to Leah remains unknown. This

704
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:52.119
individual has never been charged and maybe entirely innocent for

705
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:56.719
legal reasons. He is someone investigators re examined due to

706
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:01.800
his mechanical and military background, not someone the public record

707
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:03.519
confirms as a suspect.

708
00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:11.119
He was tested but never really implicated. Okay, mister runaway

709
00:43:11.159 --> 00:43:11.760
to Canada.

710
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.840
Hopefully the Mounies are keeping their eyes open in his

711
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:22.400
direction in case, eh exactly, And I feel like that

712
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:26.119
in particular, is we're going to get into it because

713
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:29.679
remember I said, were the cloth we were talking about,

714
00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:33.719
were the clothes hanging on the tree where they tied

715
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:37.719
to the tree. Like the differences in kind of like

716
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:41.280
the impression that gives. We're going to get into that

717
00:43:41.360 --> 00:43:44.360
more because there have been some people that have had

718
00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:46.880
some really hot takes on this case, and they have

719
00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:49.039
said some things that I'm like, you guess your mother

720
00:43:49.159 --> 00:43:51.679
with that mouth, but you said that with your chest,

721
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.239
And I'm like, you might be right, you could be,

722
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:58.519
but that is that is a hard line to take

723
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:04.400
for somebody who is not personally actually investigating this, boots

724
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:08.559
on the ground just saying huh okay, so foul play.

725
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:14.000
Many believe leah encountered someone after arriving in Bellingham, and

726
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:19.599
that whatever happened afterward wasn't her own doing. Entirely possible, right,

727
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.199
I mean, the stage crash strongly implies at least one

728
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:26.920
other person was involved. I mean, some people believe anyway,

729
00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:31.760
someone cut the starter relay wire, someone covered the broken

730
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:35.199
windows with blankets, someone placed clothing in the trees along

731
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:40.440
Canyon Creek Road. None of this is consistent with an

732
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:46.400
accident like a traditional car collision. Whether leah encountered this

733
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:51.639
person willingly or was taken against her will? Debatable, unknown, unclear.

734
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:55.440
Here is the part where people have some hot takes,

735
00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:58.400
and I think maybe they need to take several deep

736
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:03.119
breaths and potentially several roll seats. I see where they're

737
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:11.159
coming from. But WHOA, they're sir, self staged voluntary disappearance.

738
00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:14.480
That's what I was thinking, Yeah, and that is a

739
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:19.360
totally fair and valid theory. People have said some things

740
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:22.480
that I felt like were a little strong. I do

741
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.159
think there's a fair bit of evidence to kind of

742
00:45:25.239 --> 00:45:26.400
support this theory.

743
00:45:26.639 --> 00:45:28.400
I don't think she did it, though, because of the

744
00:45:28.519 --> 00:45:32.199
ring and the money, right, So I think.

745
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:36.960
Basically just people were saying it's really fucked up what

746
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:39.960
she did, and they were taking this very hard line

747
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:46.039
stance that like, she staged this crash, she voluntarily disappeared,

748
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:49.719
and she is a bad person and blah blah blah,

749
00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:50.320
And I'm like.

750
00:45:50.480 --> 00:45:52.800
An interesting thought, but I don't think she did it.

751
00:45:52.920 --> 00:45:54.960
And that could be true, and that could be true,

752
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:58.199
and in that case I kind of would maybe be

753
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:01.599
inclined to agree. I just think this is someone that

754
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:07.519
still spoiler alert has not been located, and like saying

755
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:11.800
certain things and stating them like their facts is kind

756
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:16.000
of it's not something I would do. Yeah, that's all

757
00:46:16.079 --> 00:46:16.559
I'll say.

758
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:22.719
Huh, I've probably said plenty. A separate and genuinely.

759
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:26.400
Widely held theory holds that Leah herself staged the crash

760
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:31.280
and chose to vanish a deliberate, permanent break from her

761
00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:36.239
old life. Her emotional state, her Cara Wax fixation, and

762
00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:40.000
the note she left kind of all support this reading

763
00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:44.280
of the facts like this theory, and at least one

764
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:48.320
recent source frames this as the leading theory rather than

765
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:52.719
a secondary one. Like a lot of people definitely think

766
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:57.039
this is like a very strong possibility, but again because

767
00:46:57.719 --> 00:46:58.239
we don't know.

768
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.000
But it would be harder, Like it's a.

769
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.559
Cool theory and like a movie where you can like, oh,

770
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.239
I have someone to get them fake ideas and blah

771
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:11.159
blah blah blah blah. It's easy in a movie, but like, yeah, realistically,

772
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:14.840
it is not easy. It's hard. It is not easy.

773
00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:18.280
Would you live like with no ideas and things right,

774
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:22.079
And there's a lot of very practical considerations that go

775
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:22.599
into that.

776
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.639
Why I haven't done it yet? She would literally like

777
00:47:26.159 --> 00:47:29.239
she was not somebody who had a background where she

778
00:47:29.400 --> 00:47:32.599
could have done the thing to the car herself, right

779
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:36.199
there was no YouTube, well I guess there was, Yeah, but.

780
00:47:36.280 --> 00:47:37.800
I don't know that you were going to find a

781
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:39.840
video that tells you how to do that.

782
00:47:40.400 --> 00:47:42.440
She would have to know that that was something you

783
00:47:42.639 --> 00:47:46.159
even could do to a car, which to me just

784
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:49.360
kind of leans more in the direction of like whether

785
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:54.119
it was in cooperation with her or against her will,

786
00:47:54.360 --> 00:47:58.199
whatever the situation. It kind of it really does seem

787
00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:01.760
like there had to have been somebody else involved at

788
00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:02.480
some level.

789
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:05.920
Barry was a man in black.

790
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:09.360
He wiped everyone's memory of him at the restaurant, ex

791
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:10.199
for that one guy.

792
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:11.920
He forgot I was wearing sunglasses.

793
00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:15.599
Ah, now we figured it out. See how crazy that sounds,

794
00:48:15.639 --> 00:48:19.039
you guys, But you're welcome. I mean, you know, well,

795
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:22.800
like that's more logical than her just figuring out how

796
00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:24.960
to have a new identity all by herself.

797
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:28.280
Like I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but yeah,

798
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:31.360
I'm inclined to agree. I just think, like, I don't

799
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:33.840
know that I fully buy that, and I don't know.

800
00:48:34.000 --> 00:48:37.679
I don't know her, but having like her parents gone,

801
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:41.360
I feel like she would not abandon her siblings like that,

802
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:42.599
Like in that way.

803
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:45.840
Yeah, that's kind of my thought too, And I'm like,

804
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:49.239
you might be a free spirit, but like that kind

805
00:48:49.280 --> 00:48:53.079
of comes across almost more like sociopaths. Yeah, you know,

806
00:48:53.960 --> 00:48:56.920
like there's a difference. Just to be clear, not everyone

807
00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:59.880
who's a free spirit is a monster, because that would

808
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.400
be a little bit monstrous to me to do that

809
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:05.800
to the remaining family you have left. I don't know,

810
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:07.920
And maybe she had a good reason to do that,

811
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:11.639
but again, I just feel like there are a lot

812
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:15.400
of people that like they feel so strongly about a

813
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:18.480
theory that they kind of say things in a way

814
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.800
that they're almost like stating it like fact. Yeah, And

815
00:49:22.039 --> 00:49:25.559
I just think that's irresponsible. And I realized that in

816
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:28.440
this country we've been led to believe that that's okay

817
00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:31.639
to do. However, I disagree.

818
00:49:32.760 --> 00:49:35.199
So I know, I feel like we're always so careful

819
00:49:35.239 --> 00:49:37.679
to be like, Okay, that's probably not or maybe not,

820
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:40.320
And this is just like a theory that we're if

821
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:45.119
it hasn't coming up with like specifically explicitly proven.

822
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.679
I just feel like, why would you not qualify certain

823
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:50.920
statements and certain like.

824
00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:56.719
Theories, Yeah, because you're an asshole? Maybe I was literally

825
00:49:56.880 --> 00:49:58.880
just because oh, maybe you're an asshole.

826
00:49:59.119 --> 00:50:02.719
What do we both w spread asshold, Yeah, that's right,

827
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:05.159
saying with your chest, because they're saying that shit.

828
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.320
With their chest at all anyway.

829
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:11.400
But the theory is significantly undermined by what she left

830
00:50:11.480 --> 00:50:17.920
behind her siblings, obviously, her only remaining family, over two

831
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:22.599
thousand dollars in cash, her identification, her passport, her mother's ring,

832
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.079
and possibly her kitten. Like we don't we don't know

833
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:28.760
where the cat is. I mean, I guess it could

834
00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:32.800
be with her. There has been no confirmed financial activity

835
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:36.760
or verified sighting of her since March thirteen, two thousand.

836
00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:43.400
Sustaining a self staged disappearance for over two decades without

837
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:49.199
money or ID would be extraordinarily difficult. I mean you

838
00:50:49.360 --> 00:50:52.119
pointed that out right away. I was like, bitch my

839
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.039
next line, because.

840
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:55.880
I've thought about it and it's too hard.

841
00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:56.679
Yeah.

842
00:50:58.159 --> 00:51:04.519
Still, other possibilities were accident followed by wandering. It may

843
00:51:04.599 --> 00:51:08.559
seem implausible now, but following Leah's disappearance, police and her

844
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:13.599
own family seriously entertained that this specific theory. For years,

845
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:19.400
Kara Roberts had said both family members and police considered

846
00:51:19.480 --> 00:51:22.880
the possibility that Leah survived the crash having suffered a

847
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:28.400
head injury resulting in amnesia. Totally possible. That's what I

848
00:51:28.519 --> 00:51:31.559
thought it at first, until Yeah, the whole car the

849
00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:36.639
car sabotage thing kind of undercuts that. Yeah, from there,

850
00:51:36.679 --> 00:51:39.679
it was entirely possible that she had wandered away from

851
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:43.880
the scene just disoriented. The two thousand and six discovery

852
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:47.360
of the tempered starter relay has since made.

853
00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:49.239
This theory very difficult to sustain.

854
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:54.519
The vehicle was confirmed to have gone over the embankment

855
00:51:54.679 --> 00:51:58.559
without a driver. There would be like blood, there would

856
00:51:58.599 --> 00:52:01.519
be something, There would be iological evidence of some sort.

857
00:52:01.559 --> 00:52:03.760
There would be torn clothing, there would be blood, there

858
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:04.960
would be something.

859
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:07.599
Yeah, for sure, I'm not anything.

860
00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:11.639
Yeah, I feel like it would be very difficult to

861
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:19.280
walk away from a collision of that magnitude without leaving

862
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:24.320
some sort of evidence of said collisions impact to your

863
00:52:24.440 --> 00:52:27.400
physical human shell in the beagle weird.

864
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:31.320
And then here's where it gets a little bit like

865
00:52:31.960 --> 00:52:33.800
I don't want to say tenfoil.

866
00:52:33.320 --> 00:52:35.599
Hat because I feel like it's worth exploring this and

867
00:52:35.719 --> 00:52:37.800
I feel like there's a reason it gets brought up.

868
00:52:38.440 --> 00:52:41.800
But I will say, we can't just point to all

869
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:48.199
of the most famous serial killers and say done, solved it,

870
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.480
because that's not how this works. Israel Keys.

871
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:53.480
Oh, I was like, which one is she?

872
00:52:53.679 --> 00:52:54.119
What time?

873
00:52:54.800 --> 00:52:56.360
Running time in my life?

874
00:52:56.679 --> 00:52:56.840
Who?

875
00:52:57.360 --> 00:52:58.960
Serial killing? Yeah?

876
00:52:59.559 --> 00:53:01.840
Unfair online speculation.

877
00:53:04.119 --> 00:53:07.599
So here's the thing. I feel like this one is

878
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:13.239
very valid because truly, the breath and magnitude, the volume

879
00:53:13.559 --> 00:53:18.599
of his crimes, like they know that there are there

880
00:53:18.679 --> 00:53:23.119
are more, and they don't know who or where and when.

881
00:53:23.960 --> 00:53:28.000
But he was alive long enough, and he traveled frequently

882
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:29.800
enough that there's more.

883
00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:30.519
I hate it.

884
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:35.239
Israel Keys, a confirmed serial killer active across the United

885
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:39.719
States and known for targeting victims in remote locations before

886
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:44.320
his twenty twelve arrest and death by suicide, is frequently

887
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:49.400
raised in true crime forums and online comment threads. In particular,

888
00:53:49.519 --> 00:53:52.840
it's always in the comments in connection with Lea's case,

889
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:55.119
among men many others.

890
00:53:55.679 --> 00:53:57.559
It is not the first time Israel's come up.

891
00:53:57.800 --> 00:54:02.199
No, no, Key's told the FBI investigators he had committed

892
00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:05.320
murders in Washington State. He spent a lot of time

893
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:08.840
in and around the state of Washington, murders that he

894
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:14.360
claimed to have staged to look like accidents. Oh speculation

895
00:54:14.480 --> 00:54:18.199
and comments online have suggested that could explain Leah's case,

896
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:23.400
and certainly the level of sophistication with like the mechanical

897
00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:25.880
piece of things, I can see how you get going

898
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:28.559
down that road. Though, it was important to note that

899
00:54:28.760 --> 00:54:33.119
no investigative source or verified reporting has ever linked Israel

900
00:54:33.280 --> 00:54:37.519
Keys to Leah Roberts case, not the Walcome County Sheriff's office,

901
00:54:37.840 --> 00:54:41.360
no major media outlet like not A And that wouldn't

902
00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:43.800
really be good enough for me, to be honest, because

903
00:54:43.840 --> 00:54:46.719
if enough people have this same idea, I feel.

904
00:54:46.559 --> 00:54:49.360
Like I'm in 't me see what I can find.

905
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:55.480
The fingerprint found under the hood has never been publicly

906
00:54:56.039 --> 00:55:00.280
identified as belonging to Keys, which isn't saying much because

907
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:02.480
they've never identified who's printed.

908
00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:04.239
Was right, But I feel like if it did belong

909
00:55:04.280 --> 00:55:07.800
to someone who's known to serial kill, they.

910
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:10.159
Might have they might have let that little tidbit go.

911
00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:13.360
I don't know, huh. You would think maybe I don't.

912
00:55:13.199 --> 00:55:18.440
Know whose fingerprint is it tell us they might not

913
00:55:18.599 --> 00:55:21.119
know either, And I think that's the truth of it.

914
00:55:21.400 --> 00:55:23.800
I don't think they know whose fingerprint it is someone

915
00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:24.480
off the grid.

916
00:55:25.320 --> 00:55:30.199
Perhaps to date, so far as we know, the individual

917
00:55:30.320 --> 00:55:34.719
that left those fingerprints behind has never been identified allow

918
00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:38.679
me to be explicit. Though the potential connection to Israel,

919
00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:44.960
Keys is purely unverified online speculation without a deep dive investigation.

920
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:47.760
I suppose we can't say it's impossible, but it does

921
00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:48.800
seem unlikely.

922
00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:52.280
And here's the thing I did. I did a little

923
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:57.840
I did a little thing. Not hours and hours of work,

924
00:55:58.039 --> 00:55:59.960
but it did take some time.

925
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:00.159
Time.

926
00:56:01.079 --> 00:56:04.360
There's no indication that Keys was near the area at

927
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:08.400
the time of her disappearance. According to the FBI's map

928
00:56:08.480 --> 00:56:12.599
and timeline of his known travels and activity from nineteen

929
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:17.039
ninety seven to twenty twelve, Keys was stationed in Egypt

930
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:21.480
on a temporary duty assignment from January fifteenth to June

931
00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:25.760
first of two thousand, all right, making it pretty unlikely

932
00:56:26.679 --> 00:56:29.880
that you know, hop skip and a jump and multiple

933
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:31.360
flights and yeah.

934
00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:32.000
I like that.

935
00:56:32.119 --> 00:56:35.679
There's a time, a time, map, time, map time, Yeah,

936
00:56:35.880 --> 00:56:37.239
timeline and a map line.

937
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:40.159
Yeah, thank you. I mean some people that's not going

938
00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:42.480
to be enough for them, And I get it. He

939
00:56:42.800 --> 00:56:48.280
was certainly a real duplicitus taint and I wouldn't put

940
00:56:48.320 --> 00:56:51.360
it past him, but I'm like, he was assigned there,

941
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:55.280
you guys, I don't like in record. Yeah, it's pretty

942
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:57.639
hard for them to just kind of sneak away from

943
00:56:57.760 --> 00:57:02.519
Egypt and right beer b ib guys, I just have

944
00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:05.440
to go and like for why because it's not like

945
00:57:05.519 --> 00:57:07.800
he knew Leo, Like, oh, I've been.

946
00:57:08.199 --> 00:57:12.360
Like what, I've been called to this remote location from Egypt.

947
00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:16.480
R Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a pretty definitive, like

948
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:20.719
six month block of time roughly where we're like, I

949
00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:24.960
feel confident saying he was pretty definitely like not in

950
00:57:25.039 --> 00:57:25.960
the state of Washington.

951
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:27.920
Do you think he killed people in Egypt?

952
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:31.440
A lot of people think so. A lot of people

953
00:57:31.519 --> 00:57:35.559
think so, and not necessarily in like a military capacity.

954
00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.679
Yeah, well yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking, Like,

955
00:57:39.239 --> 00:57:39.440
but a.

956
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:43.360
Lot of people are attracted to the military, oh for that,

957
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:46.119
oh boy, yeah, it's troubling.

958
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:49.280
And law enforcement yeah yeah.

959
00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:52.320
Wait, you're telling me there's a position that will legally

960
00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:54.199
protect me when I kill someone?

961
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:55.519
What what?

962
00:57:56.639 --> 00:58:01.000
Leah's siblings, Kara and Heath, have remained central to keeping

963
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.880
Leah's case alive. They flew to Bellingham within days of

964
00:58:04.960 --> 00:58:08.039
her jeep being found and visited the crash site, as

965
00:58:08.119 --> 00:58:11.760
well as their grassroots efforts with flyers in the community.

966
00:58:12.199 --> 00:58:15.800
So they flyed the shit out of Bellingham, Kara told

967
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:18.800
Larry King Live in two thousand and five. We're just

968
00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:21.800
trying to keep Leah's face out there as much as possible.

969
00:58:22.440 --> 00:58:27.760
Community United Effort or Q, was founded in Wilmington, North Carolina,

970
00:58:27.960 --> 00:58:32.960
to provide assistance in missing persons cases, boosting public awareness

971
00:58:33.079 --> 00:58:37.559
and advocating for those impacted like their families. They deploy

972
00:58:37.719 --> 00:58:41.360
volunteers to support search efforts and operate a twenty four

973
00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:45.480
hour public tip line. In two thousand and five, they

974
00:58:45.679 --> 00:58:49.960
organized a fourteen day expedition that would retrace Lea's route

975
00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:53.199
from her home in North Carolina all the.

976
00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:54.559
Way west to Bellingham.

977
00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.719
They're on the Road to Remember tour has become an

978
00:58:59.800 --> 00:59:05.599
annual tradition aimed at raising awareness for not just Lea's case,

979
00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:09.360
but other cases and nationwide.

980
00:59:09.920 --> 00:59:14.159
That's a long trip to do every year. Holy guacam Molly, Holly,

981
00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:14.960
guacam Moly.

982
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:19.920
Indeed, though her case has been featured on Unsolved Mysteries

983
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:25.679
and Disappeared, among other programs, Leah Roberts has never been found.

984
00:59:26.360 --> 00:59:29.559
Her GEEP remains in police custody, and, in the words

985
00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:33.880
of one investigator featured on Disappeared, that car has something

986
00:59:33.960 --> 00:59:36.440
to tell us because we don't have a crime scene,

987
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:40.800
we don't have a body. It told us, yeah, literally

988
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:45.400
told us yeah. Someone cut the line. Yeah, better late

989
00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:45.920
than never.

990
00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:49.440
But Jesus Christ, I think the other thing is the

991
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.239
fact that there's like someone else's fingerprints too.

992
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:54.599
Was like, hmm, and he knows.

993
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:57.559
I kind of looked at it if she was having

994
00:59:57.639 --> 00:59:59.800
like car trouble or something. I don't know, but like

995
01:00:00.280 --> 01:00:03.519
to me, says someone else was with her at some point.

996
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:08.480
It's so hard though, because you can't really date a

997
01:00:08.599 --> 01:00:12.559
fingerprint necessarily, Like you can tell when a fingerprint maybe

998
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:16.679
is like super recent versus very old, but like that

999
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:20.360
is very imprecise from what I understand, could have been

1000
01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:25.639
like an oil change or yep, exactly. Investigators believe her

1001
01:00:25.760 --> 01:00:29.679
remains are likely somewhere in the area surrounding where the

1002
01:00:29.800 --> 01:00:33.960
jeep was discovered. The case remains open, though no arrests

1003
01:00:34.039 --> 01:00:37.960
have ever been made and no legal declaration of death

1004
01:00:38.039 --> 01:00:40.480
has ever been publicly reported.

1005
01:00:41.239 --> 01:00:44.239
Twenty six years, they've never declared her dead.

1006
01:00:44.519 --> 01:00:44.800
Wow.

1007
01:00:46.280 --> 01:00:50.400
The case of Leah Toby Roberts remains classified as missing,

1008
01:00:50.840 --> 01:00:55.719
not legally deceased. In many cases, the disappeared are declared

1009
01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:59.920
presumed dead for practical purposes such as settling a state

1010
01:01:00.159 --> 01:01:03.920
claims or death benefits, or any number of other legal

1011
01:01:04.519 --> 01:01:09.320
and or financial reasons, like completely logical things. Leah was

1012
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.440
in her twenties, almost certainly didn't have her own life

1013
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:17.960
insurance policy, had no spouse, no children, and had already

1014
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:22.239
granted Kara power of attorney over her bank accounts before

1015
01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:26.719
she left, before she left for Costa Rica all that

1016
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:27.400
time back.

1017
01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:29.320
That was a little odd of a thing to I

1018
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:31.320
don't think that's like a standard thing to do when

1019
01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:34.079
you're just leaving the country for a vacation, right.

1020
01:01:34.119 --> 01:01:36.920
Not necessarily, but if both of your parents are deceased,

1021
01:01:37.239 --> 01:01:41.239
and you know, that's going to make you frame things differently.

1022
01:01:41.760 --> 01:01:42.079
Okay.

1023
01:01:42.239 --> 01:01:46.760
She also had, you know, a modest inheritance after her

1024
01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:50.440
parents had passed, so okay, I'm sure she wanted them

1025
01:01:50.519 --> 01:01:53.800
to be able to access that money, whether you know,

1026
01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:57.559
in case of emergency, for so many different potential reasons.

1027
01:01:58.159 --> 01:02:01.800
I don't necessarily think that that's unusual in and of itself,

1028
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:05.800
but that may have given the family enough practical access

1029
01:02:06.119 --> 01:02:11.440
to whatever modest assets existed her inheritance, which you know,

1030
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:15.119
she wasn't going to retire, but she at the time,

1031
01:02:15.400 --> 01:02:17.679
you know, had dropped out of college, wasn't really working,

1032
01:02:17.800 --> 01:02:20.559
and she was kind of living off of that. Okay,

1033
01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:25.679
So without ever needing a formal death declaration to unlock

1034
01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:31.599
anything beyond that kind of pragmatic explanation that side of things,

1035
01:02:32.119 --> 01:02:36.960
there's an incredibly emotional aspect to that. Some families of

1036
01:02:37.079 --> 01:02:43.119
long term missing persons deliberately avoid pursuing legal death declaration,

1037
01:02:43.440 --> 01:02:47.800
specifically because it can feel like giving up the search. Yeah,

1038
01:02:48.239 --> 01:02:51.480
even decades in or in cases that perhaps the likely

1039
01:02:51.599 --> 01:02:56.159
outcome has already been accepted by them and kind of

1040
01:02:56.639 --> 01:03:02.039
unconfirmed as near to fact private given that Kara has

1041
01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:07.159
spent over two decades organizing, putting up flyers, you know,

1042
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:11.559
they've had their advocacy campaigns and the caravans. Yeah, I

1043
01:03:11.639 --> 01:03:14.960
mean the expedition that they're doing, you know, annually and

1044
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:19.039
media appearances to keep Lee's case alive. It wouldn't be

1045
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:23.800
surprising if pursuing a death declaration simply never aligned with

1046
01:03:23.920 --> 01:03:27.800
how the family has approached this. I mean that's purely

1047
01:03:27.920 --> 01:03:31.679
speculation on my part, but like they don't need to, right,

1048
01:03:32.039 --> 01:03:34.280
in a lot of respects, I think it's smart for

1049
01:03:34.440 --> 01:03:37.719
them not to if you have them legally declared dead

1050
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:41.800
because you have to for practical purposes. There's a little

1051
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:45.320
bit of a mental shift, I think for a lot

1052
01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:47.760
of people as outsiders, and the grief that you would

1053
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:49.760
have to process, even not knowing.

1054
01:03:50.440 --> 01:03:52.400
Yeah, it's very different to like put it out there,

1055
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:53.800
yeah in.

1056
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.880
Concrete like, yeah, we're saying she's dead and then if

1057
01:03:57.920 --> 01:04:00.920
she comes back, like then what, Yeah, to go through

1058
01:04:00.920 --> 01:04:03.599
a whole nother leag thing to me get her alive again.

1059
01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:05.639
Yeah, No, quite literally.

1060
01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:09.400
I mean that obviously in rare instances like that, you

1061
01:04:09.480 --> 01:04:13.320
know that has and can happen. But I get why

1062
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:16.880
maybe they they don't need to, and I get why

1063
01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:21.679
they wouldn't want to. Anyone with information is ask to

1064
01:04:21.800 --> 01:04:25.679
contact the detective sergeant of the Wocome County Sheriff's Office.

1065
01:04:26.320 --> 01:04:29.920
We'll put the phone numbers for the Sheriff's office and

1066
01:04:31.199 --> 01:04:35.559
for their dispatch center in the show notes and that's

1067
01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:38.239
that's it. That's as far as this goes. And I

1068
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:41.800
apologize because I feel like I kind of feel like

1069
01:04:41.880 --> 01:04:45.440
I'm ending in like this kind of abrupt way, but

1070
01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:47.519
it's like that's that's where we're at.

1071
01:04:48.119 --> 01:04:51.159
Yeah, every time you talk about a missing person who's

1072
01:04:51.400 --> 01:04:54.480
just never been found, like, it just makes me realize

1073
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:58.920
how big the world actually is, Like we can't find somebody,

1074
01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:00.960
like right, so crazy to me.

1075
01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.360
I know that's the part that to me that really

1076
01:05:04.480 --> 01:05:07.599
does it just makes you feel small in a way

1077
01:05:07.760 --> 01:05:10.639
that like most of the time, Like you know, we

1078
01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:13.760
talked about this earlier, it's like, oh yeah, I feel

1079
01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:17.079
like an adult kind of now. But like when you're

1080
01:05:17.079 --> 01:05:19.719
a kid, you feel like everything is so big and

1081
01:05:19.880 --> 01:05:23.679
there's you know, and these cases make you feel like

1082
01:05:23.840 --> 01:05:27.719
that again, like in a way it is scarier way,

1083
01:05:27.880 --> 01:05:30.280
but like very similar to like when you're a kid

1084
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:34.480
and everything just feels like whoa. I mean, if if

1085
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:37.679
there's any case that you know has a good chance

1086
01:05:37.800 --> 01:05:41.719
of like being solved, it's you know, there's a lot

1087
01:05:41.840 --> 01:05:44.679
we can do with DNA. You know, she has the

1088
01:05:45.679 --> 01:05:49.599
metal rod that should help to make things, you know,

1089
01:05:50.360 --> 01:05:54.039
in terms of identification a little bit easier. But it's

1090
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:55.679
it's been a long time.

1091
01:05:56.559 --> 01:05:59.559
Well should we see what the taro has to say.

1092
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:01.800
Let's do some teraro about it.

1093
01:06:01.920 --> 01:06:04.599
I don't know why, but this one is I feel

1094
01:06:04.639 --> 01:06:07.440
like it's just sitting heavy, you know, it is I

1095
01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:08.199
think the missing.

1096
01:06:08.800 --> 01:06:10.440
The missing cases kind of always have.

1097
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.599
They do for me, thinking that like every because you

1098
01:06:13.760 --> 01:06:15.519
just did one like pretty recently too.

1099
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:18.280
Yeah. I have been trying to do some more of

1100
01:06:18.360 --> 01:06:22.519
the missing because I do feel like as heavy as

1101
01:06:22.920 --> 01:06:25.760
they feel in a lot of respects, like to research,

1102
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:28.559
to write, and then you know, to talk about. I

1103
01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:32.159
feel like that's kind of how we pay our dues

1104
01:06:33.159 --> 01:06:36.639
in a way, you know, just solely talking about like

1105
01:06:36.800 --> 01:06:41.159
sort of the sensational serial killer cases. While those can

1106
01:06:41.199 --> 01:06:44.360
be really interesting, I feel like we owe it to

1107
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:48.679
kind of the community and to the victims of you know,

1108
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:52.559
some of these crimes to share the stories that like

1109
01:06:53.440 --> 01:06:54.519
we don't have an end to.

1110
01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:57.880
Yeah, yeah, that could have an end at some point hopefully.

1111
01:06:58.480 --> 01:07:02.760
Yeah, And this has happen been in our lifetime. It's

1112
01:07:02.840 --> 01:07:07.519
crazy to think about like where we were, you know,

1113
01:07:08.000 --> 01:07:12.400
March two thousand in middle school, right, Yeah, Yeah, I

1114
01:07:12.559 --> 01:07:14.280
know it's crazy.

1115
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:17.280
Great, Yeah, I feel like I would have been.

1116
01:07:17.719 --> 01:07:17.920
Yeah.

1117
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:21.760
I think you're right. That perspective is just like it's wild.

1118
01:07:22.119 --> 01:07:25.039
It's wild to think that she has been missing that

1119
01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:27.559
long and like all of the things that have happened

1120
01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:33.039
in our lives, obviously she is older, you know, than us. Yeah,

1121
01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:37.280
but yeah, I mean it's just wild to think about,

1122
01:07:37.400 --> 01:07:40.840
like all of these people that like their stories overlap

1123
01:07:40.960 --> 01:07:44.719
with ours in terms of all of human existence.

1124
01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:49.639
But speaking of human existence, Oh boy, what Larry King

1125
01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:54.039
is dead? What when he died in twenty twenty one? Oh,

1126
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:57.119
I felt like I had some memory, like, okay of

1127
01:07:57.239 --> 01:07:59.159
him passing during COVID times.

1128
01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:01.760
Yeah, that makes sense. I don't know if it was

1129
01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:04.599
due to COVID. I didn't look why Yeah, yeah, but.

1130
01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:06.920
Yeah, I was curious.

1131
01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:09.519
That's interesting because he, I mean.

1132
01:08:09.519 --> 01:08:13.440
His Larry King live thing was like eighty years long.

1133
01:08:14.039 --> 01:08:23.920
Oh my god? Yes, really though? Wow, Okay, and you've

1134
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:26.159
got a good picker. I've been doing all the picking,

1135
01:08:26.800 --> 01:08:27.319
are you sure?

1136
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:27.920
Yeah?

1137
01:08:28.680 --> 01:08:32.000
I feel like we can kind of like reel it

1138
01:08:32.359 --> 01:08:35.800
rather Yeah, if we do like it, But I feel

1139
01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:37.479
like I want you to be the one to draw it.

1140
01:08:38.279 --> 01:08:42.159
I'm feeling kind of towards the left, like you're left.

1141
01:08:42.359 --> 01:08:45.399
That's way, That's where I was headed. Yeah, okay, so

1142
01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:49.199
so far we're doing good. We're like drawing to the

1143
01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:51.920
same place. Is there any of them that kind of

1144
01:08:51.920 --> 01:08:55.119
stick out to you? I was thinking that one or

1145
01:08:55.239 --> 01:08:59.239
like even lefter yeah, that one or that one.

1146
01:09:00.000 --> 01:09:01.640
I don't feel in this one. What do you think?

1147
01:09:02.479 --> 01:09:02.520
Go?

1148
01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:05.239
Go do them both? Well, grab the first one. I

1149
01:09:05.319 --> 01:09:09.199
want to see what that is because got that aside.

1150
01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:12.039
Oh I kept seeing this one while I was shuffling

1151
01:09:12.159 --> 01:09:15.399
the Ace of Cups and it was in reverse.

1152
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:16.439
It was in reverse.

1153
01:09:16.520 --> 01:09:19.119
Okay, aout the card.

1154
01:09:19.239 --> 01:09:23.239
We've gotten a lot, a lot in reverse. Okay, I'm

1155
01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:26.279
pulling the other card now, just go. Oh she wants

1156
01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:30.359
to know the Night of Pentacles in reverse. And it's

1157
01:09:30.399 --> 01:09:33.039
interesting because it's like a deer running away from something.

1158
01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:40.159
Oh interisonte Okay, I think we've gotten the Night of

1159
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:41.279
Pentacles before.

1160
01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:41.920
But not often.

1161
01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:43.399
Yeah, not as often.

1162
01:09:44.359 --> 01:09:48.199
Ace of Cups are keywords are new, love, beginning, a

1163
01:09:48.319 --> 01:09:53.680
creative activity, and joy. Well she was so creative, right,

1164
01:09:53.880 --> 01:09:56.600
she had the guitar. Yeah, she had a lot of

1165
01:09:56.720 --> 01:10:01.000
creative pursuits, that's for sure. The reverse A can indicate

1166
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:04.960
a delay in starting a relationship. It can also mean

1167
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:09.560
a romance that seemed promising doesn't develop or turnout as

1168
01:10:09.960 --> 01:10:10.560
you'd hoped.

1169
01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:16.840
Barry, I mean, if he's real, this may not be.

1170
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:22.279
The right time to start something new, Verry, huh. In

1171
01:10:22.399 --> 01:10:26.359
a reading about money, The reversed ace suggests you may

1172
01:10:26.479 --> 01:10:29.000
have to wait a while to profit from a new venture,

1173
01:10:29.960 --> 01:10:32.800
or it can mean you won't make as much as

1174
01:10:32.880 --> 01:10:35.880
you'd hoped. If the reading is about your work, you

1175
01:10:35.960 --> 01:10:40.960
may encounter delays in landing your dream job. For creative people,

1176
01:10:41.399 --> 01:10:44.319
this ace can represent a dry spell when you feel

1177
01:10:44.439 --> 01:10:47.800
stifled or uninspired. That feels on.

1178
01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:50.079
Point, Yeah, like quitting school.

1179
01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:54.800
Yeah, and I do think this first line, you may

1180
01:10:54.920 --> 01:10:58.880
encounter delays in landing your dream job. It's funny because

1181
01:10:59.119 --> 01:11:04.000
I know, like I think back to her wanting specifically

1182
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:06.920
to go to Desolation.

1183
01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:12.720
Peak and that being like kind of a job that Kerouak.

1184
01:11:12.279 --> 01:11:14.039
Held in the Overlook.

1185
01:11:14.399 --> 01:11:17.479
You know, yeah, I don't know that. That just kind

1186
01:11:17.520 --> 01:11:18.279
of sparks for me.

1187
01:11:18.600 --> 01:11:23.520
But in a reading about love, you may run into obstacles, limitations,

1188
01:11:23.760 --> 01:11:29.439
or disappointments. Well, there were some obstacles a Night of Pentacles.

1189
01:11:29.520 --> 01:11:37.920
Also in reverse. Our keywords are steadfastness, practicality, caution, lethargy, narrowness,

1190
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.800
and boredom, the two of them combined.

1191
01:11:40.840 --> 01:11:42.840
I feel like we're picking up a vibe like a

1192
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:44.800
free spirit wanderer.

1193
01:11:45.560 --> 01:11:49.880
Yeah, type of vibe. Yeah, reversed The Night of pentacles

1194
01:11:50.640 --> 01:11:55.600
can mean stagnation, stubbornness, and inability to step outside the

1195
01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:00.560
box and traditional ways of doing things. Lack of imagination

1196
01:12:00.880 --> 01:12:05.000
or courage can limit success. If the reverse Night signifies

1197
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:08.920
an actual person, he's probably a young man without vision

1198
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:13.640
or curiosity, a stick in the mud. He may lack

1199
01:12:13.760 --> 01:12:18.720
spiritual insight because his focus is on money and material possessions.

1200
01:12:19.199 --> 01:12:23.039
Sometimes the reverse Night shows a hedonistic nature or a

1201
01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.000
willingness to take the low road if that leads to

1202
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:27.239
wealth or status.

1203
01:12:27.640 --> 01:12:29.199
Weird. Interesting.

1204
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:33.439
I don't know if this feels like sort of the

1205
01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:37.560
antithesis of Leah, or if this feels like it's identifying

1206
01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:43.319
maybe a male person of interest. Yeah, that's like what

1207
01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:44.000
I'm getting.

1208
01:12:44.039 --> 01:12:46.640
That's when I first pulled it, because it's like even

1209
01:12:46.720 --> 01:12:49.000
the difference in how the cards look like one is

1210
01:12:49.239 --> 01:12:55.359
very beautiful and very like Leah. Yeah, Leah, and the

1211
01:12:55.439 --> 01:12:58.760
other one's like a male deer. Yeah he's running away.

1212
01:12:59.159 --> 01:13:02.720
Running away, And yeah, that's interesting. It does look like

1213
01:13:02.760 --> 01:13:04.039
a mountain behind.

1214
01:13:03.800 --> 01:13:06.880
The deer too. It does. In a reading about money,

1215
01:13:07.039 --> 01:13:09.960
this card suggests you're so caught up in making money

1216
01:13:10.119 --> 01:13:14.159
you can't enjoy anything else. Conversely, it may say you

1217
01:13:14.319 --> 01:13:19.239
lack the patience, persistence, and pragmatism to prosper. If the

1218
01:13:19.319 --> 01:13:22.600
reading is about your job, the reverse night indicates boredom,

1219
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:25.960
but you aren't willing to do what's necessary to improve

1220
01:13:26.039 --> 01:13:31.479
your lot. Laziness, lack of direction, indulgence, or feelings of

1221
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:34.119
unworthiness can inhibit your success.

1222
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:35.960
In a reading about.

1223
01:13:35.760 --> 01:13:39.319
Love, You're bored but unwilling to put in the necessary

1224
01:13:39.439 --> 01:13:45.000
effort to revive a romance. You're just slogging along, sloggingo.

1225
01:13:46.199 --> 01:13:50.680
Perhaps a relationship is based on security, financial, or otherwise.

1226
01:13:51.439 --> 01:13:53.880
You long for a change, but you're afraid to go

1227
01:13:54.119 --> 01:13:54.399
for it.

1228
01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:57.880
It is interesting, though, because I feel like whatever happened,

1229
01:13:57.880 --> 01:14:01.039
they obviously weren't about the money, because there was money

1230
01:14:01.199 --> 01:14:05.760
left behind. Yeah, or maybe they just didn't know about

1231
01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:08.520
I don't know. I think if you were killing someone

1232
01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:10.960
for their money, you would search for it.

1233
01:14:11.199 --> 01:14:11.640
I don't know you.

1234
01:14:11.640 --> 01:14:13.560
Would, Yeah, I mean you would think.

1235
01:14:14.319 --> 01:14:18.279
Yeah. I mean I feel like that particular point kind

1236
01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:22.479
of almost points to less of a person of interest

1237
01:14:22.680 --> 01:14:25.680
in the shady kind of like, oh, this is like

1238
01:14:25.840 --> 01:14:29.600
someone who targeted her, and more points more to like

1239
01:14:29.720 --> 01:14:30.720
a collaborator.

1240
01:14:31.279 --> 01:14:32.279
Yeah, does that make sense?

1241
01:14:32.880 --> 01:14:36.119
It's like, Okay, It's also very weird to me when

1242
01:14:36.479 --> 01:14:41.840
people don't take money if someone's like murdered or something happens,

1243
01:14:41.920 --> 01:14:46.520
like obviously, if kills them, should just take the money,

1244
01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:51.359
right if they're gone anyway, And like that so awful,

1245
01:14:52.159 --> 01:14:52.920
like if I were.

1246
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:57.039
But like when you get down to like these base

1247
01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:02.199
human instincts, it's like, you know, there's like violence and greed,

1248
01:15:03.039 --> 01:15:07.720
and you've been motivated to commit some act of violence.

1249
01:15:07.800 --> 01:15:10.600
But like it makes me think they're like already a

1250
01:15:10.720 --> 01:15:12.319
really really rich person.

1251
01:15:13.119 --> 01:15:14.880
Because if you were a killer and.

1252
01:15:15.000 --> 01:15:17.800
You were just you know, living on minimum wage whatever,

1253
01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:22.279
Like why wouldn't you just take the money just to

1254
01:15:22.439 --> 01:15:24.000
have extra money?

1255
01:15:24.279 --> 01:15:32.199
Like, yeah, maybe Washington, maybe Christian Gray Bruce Wayne type

1256
01:15:33.119 --> 01:15:35.439
hybrid killer situation.

1257
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:37.439
It's so weird to me.

1258
01:15:37.680 --> 01:15:38.199
Where is she?

1259
01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:41.439
Yeah, I don't know.

1260
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:45.640
Huh. There is an extra excerpt between the upright and

1261
01:15:45.720 --> 01:15:51.000
the reverse interpretations. You have fought some battles and enjoyed

1262
01:15:51.079 --> 01:15:56.399
some adventures. Now you'd like to rest and regroup, maybe

1263
01:15:56.439 --> 01:16:00.640
spend some time enjoying quieter, more domestic scenes.

1264
01:16:01.720 --> 01:16:06.520
Huh. Really interesting, that is weird. Yeah, did you have

1265
01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:06.880
a chance.

1266
01:16:06.880 --> 01:16:08.960
I don't know what to make of that. I know

1267
01:16:09.199 --> 01:16:11.760
I'm not really sure either, but she have a chance

1268
01:16:11.840 --> 01:16:14.039
to look at both of the Little Book stories and

1269
01:16:14.159 --> 01:16:17.439
see what you think is like worth kind of like

1270
01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:22.520
reflecting on yell me, Okay, this is kind of weird. Okay,

1271
01:16:22.960 --> 01:16:23.840
So I'm going to read the.

1272
01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:27.920
Night of Pentacle's uh interpretation from the Little Book, and

1273
01:16:28.039 --> 01:16:32.479
just by the first couple of sentences, I'm kind of like, huh, okay.

1274
01:16:33.119 --> 01:16:37.680
The black tailed buck turned hoof the silver coated doze.

1275
01:16:37.840 --> 01:16:42.159
Ideas sounded grand, but could they ever really be achieved?

1276
01:16:43.000 --> 01:16:46.159
Some had followed her path, but this buck sure wouldn't

1277
01:16:47.319 --> 01:16:51.600
I know what she thought of as progress? He called fantasy.

1278
01:16:52.359 --> 01:16:57.720
Oh wow, the forest was the way it was for

1279
01:16:57.800 --> 01:17:02.600
a reason, and it had been in that way for generations,

1280
01:17:03.600 --> 01:17:07.239
at least the buck thought it had, and so why

1281
01:17:07.399 --> 01:17:07.840
mess with it?

1282
01:17:08.640 --> 01:17:09.079
Anyway?

1283
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:13.119
He knew that change happened best slowly, little by little.

1284
01:17:13.840 --> 01:17:17.479
Let them try their big ideas and fail. He would

1285
01:17:17.520 --> 01:17:22.279
work patiently for small changes. He'd start tomorrow or maybe

1286
01:17:22.319 --> 01:17:27.039
the next day. Interesting. It is interesting because it's.

1287
01:17:26.920 --> 01:17:31.239
Like she had this idea of like her like wanderer face,

1288
01:17:31.359 --> 01:17:33.479
and I feel like, yeah, I don't know.

1289
01:17:33.560 --> 01:17:37.039
Maybe she came across someone who thought that maybe sounded good,

1290
01:17:37.119 --> 01:17:37.439
but like.

1291
01:17:37.880 --> 01:17:40.159
It wasn't really wasn't into it. I don't.

1292
01:17:40.399 --> 01:17:42.960
Yeah, that is kind of the same.

1293
01:17:43.479 --> 01:17:43.840
I don't know.

1294
01:17:44.079 --> 01:17:46.680
That's kind of the vibe I was picking up. That's interesting,

1295
01:17:48.439 --> 01:17:52.439
like we'll never know what happened, No, unless someday we do.

1296
01:17:52.880 --> 01:17:54.680
I mean, yeah, I know.

1297
01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:57.840
I hate to say yeah, no, we'll never know, because yeah, I.

1298
01:17:57.880 --> 01:18:00.239
Mean maybe we will, but we don't now.

1299
01:18:00.720 --> 01:18:05.520
Yeah, And I'm all about instant gratification, so I know,

1300
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:10.840
I know, Oh my gosh, should we do the thing. Yeah,

1301
01:18:10.880 --> 01:18:14.399
let's do the thing, all right, have a.

1302
01:18:14.439 --> 01:18:15.520
Creepy as day.

1303
01:18:16.399 --> 01:18:18.119
We'll see you next Thursday.

1304
01:18:19.800 --> 01:18:20.880
I almost said Tuesday.

1305
01:18:21.239 --> 01:18:25.560
Ah good, Yeah, well just because like we've been saying Thursday,

1306
01:18:26.039 --> 01:18:29.720
and we've been remote a lot recently, but seeing you

1307
01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:34.079
again in person and being here recording together, I was like,

1308
01:18:34.319 --> 01:18:39.359
Tuesday brings you back to old day, Yes, nostalgia.

1309
01:18:39.560 --> 01:18:42.000
Maybe we'll switch back to Tuesdays at some point, you

1310
01:18:42.079 --> 01:18:42.920
guys don't who knows?

1311
01:18:43.279 --> 01:18:47.520
Keeping me on your toes? Yeah, hopefully you come back

1312
01:18:47.600 --> 01:18:53.039
next week. That's so weird. It was like muscle memory.

1313
01:18:53.159 --> 01:18:55.680
I was like I had to force myself to say Thursday.