Leah Roberts: The Crash That Wasn't an Accident | Unsolved, Bellingham, Washington

0:00 They found a note reading I'm not suicidal, I'm the opposite. WHOA, that's unsettling, Like it shouldn't be that should be a good thing. But like, right, why would you need to why would you need. To say that? Yeah exactly, it's like you're trying to convince yourself almost. Yes, yeah, it just very much is giving the lady doth protest too much to me, you know. Yeah. Aside from that rather ominous statement, the note made reference to Carawac and included a drawing of the Cheshire cat's grin. Ooh yeah, Hi Cassie, Hi Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hello, what's up? So this is pn W Hants and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, Cassie's haunted doll stickers.

0:57 Ooh, I'm saying we might have to do patroon on us, where I read not haunted doll stickers, because they're funny. They are really funny. They're a lot funnier than I thought they would be. Charlotte thinks they're not funny at all. Yeah, she was deeply offended, and that's why she has once again decided to go supersonic. So if you hear anything that sounds like a tea kettle. It's not because it's hot in its summer and we're not drinking hot tea. It is, in fact, my tiny, tiny dog. Yeah, that thing over there interrupting. We just started. Charlotte. I know it's a good thing.

1:37 She's cute. Goodness. She really has no idea how lucky she is. Maybe we'll figure out how lucky she is in the terror reading we do at the end of every episode. She won't believe us. But the tower card, you're chaos and destruction. She is chaos and destruction. All right, Well should we get into this? Yeah, let's do it. What are we doing? What do we go? Oh? So it's this is my episode. So yay, point one for the True Crime Team. I guess you didn't do a spooky I you. Know, know, really, although I do feel like there's it's not so much that there's like a haunting related to this case, but it does have a very eerie feel to it. Oh okay, I don't really know how else to say that without just giving away the plot.

2:34 I don't know if that's better or worse. But here we go, yep, and then there we go. There we done what Yep. By the time Leah was twenty two, she had lost both of her parents. And here she is on the verge of graduating from college. And I think she just really felt lost and didn't have a lot of direction. And I feel like she took this trip as a soul searching trip, said Kara Roberts, reflecting on her sister's state of mind on the Larry King Live Show Larry King, Larry King Oldest Wooze done yet? You know, I think he's alive. I believe so.

3:17 Yeah. In her early twenties, Leah learned guitar, took up photography, and adopted a kitten she named b after dropping out of North Carolina State University in Raleigh against the wishes of her older siblings just months prior to completing her degree. I'm sorry, but fuck them. I love all of that. I know you do, you girl, Yeah, you do. But here's the thing is, if you're that close to graduating and you have presumably accumulated, shall we say, perhaps a sizeable debt for the degree program that you're about to complete, listen, if you're not feeling it, I know, but you're so close and you're gonna have to pay for it. It literally sounds like something I would do, So, yeah, I know, and I just I'm a finisher. I'm a closer. I'm not I have a hard time. I can be a little bit.

4:22 Of a completionist. So that's what she said. That is indeed what she said. In the short span of just about two years, she had lost both of her parents and survived her own brush with death after a near fatal car crash. Oh shit, yeah, I kind of a lot going through a lot, like I can understand. Yeah, like, if you're that traumatized, maybe making decisions that are right aren't exactly the best, but maybe feel right in the moment for what you're going through. I don't really know. Yeah, I feel like that, And I don't think I'm gonna remember the exact phrase, but it's it kind of reminds me of like you're coming up with short term solutions for a long term problem.

5:16 Yeah. You know, from that accident, she'd suffered both a punctured lung and shattered her femur, and while she survived, no doubt the recovery would be brutal for either singular injury. I can say that with some level of certainty because I watched my brother recover from I mean, not shattering but breaking his femur. It didn't look like that much fun kind of ruined this summer. I'm gonna be honest, dude, I can't even so. I just I broke my ankle right, like, I can't imagine shattering a bone, like a bone that you use to walk like, Yeah, mine wasn't that bad.

5:58 And it was bad. Yeah, well, and the femur is so serious because people can die from that like it. Oh, I mean the combination of the two for me is truly unimaginable, Like either one of those is really not awesome, and both of them at the same time when you've already just kind of been through so much and it's like you say, it's like you're maybe not in the right headspace for good decision making. Yeah, no, it doesn't sound like it. And you're already young, so we know you're kind of you know, you're winging it, you're flying by the city, your dumb dumb pants. I'm still doing that, I know.

6:39 I was like, I say that as someone who is still very much flying by the seat of their dumb dumb pants. Whatever you have a grown up job. You're fine. Yeah, I'm that you have a grown up job. You're doing great. I guess I don't know. I do have a retirement account. It does frequently tell me I'm not saving enough, but we are. We don't want to talk about mine, You're like, I'm like, listen, everyone is assuming that I live long enough. Okay, So I feel like we're throwing a lot of eggs in that basket. In light of all she'd been through, it made sense to those closest to her that it seemed like she was searching for something, something like meaning or direction, maybe just something different, but it was clearly still a very active search. She became deeply drawn to the writings of Jack Kerouac, as so many similarly searching young people have for decades.

7:45 Now sounds familiar, but I don't know who that is. Yeah, you know, I'll be honest, I have I've never really gotten into like reading his you know, on the road or it sounds really interesting. Maybe we should. Yeah, I feel like I might just. Kind of be at a point in my life where I don't know if I would appreciate it in the same way because I'm I'm just I'm past the point of where I'm like, oh, I'll sleep on the floor or you know this or that, just so that I can have the adventure. You know, a venture av. I'm like, I'm down for an adventure if they have clean linens, yes, and a comfortable mattress okay, and hopefully they've preferably also chilled my wine prior to arrival.

8:38 Toilets are a must. Oh god, a clean toilet is a must. Clean toilet. Yeah, that's kind of key. I can't go anywhere without my wipeies. If you're that way, it's the toilets not clean. You can clean it with the wipeies. It's kind of I mean, but it's so true. How did we ever live before white flushable white bees? I have no idea how I survived. I don't know. I don't know. Billy Paper just didn't cutting it. At one point, she had discussed with her roommate Nicole and another friend Janine, her desire to take a Carauhac inspired road trip west, which is to say, apparently like kind of like the rough and tumble, kind of definitely not staying in like three star, four star, probably really like no star accommodations. Do you know what that is?

9:34 What that's Carol? Whack bro Sorry, I had to How did you know that was going to come? Because it was obvious. I had to make the obvious joke. It was right there. It's because I'm sensing something bad. It's going to happen, and so I'm trying to stall and bunnies anything I. Can kill four hours. But let's circle back to the beginning. Leah Toby Roberts was born July twenty third in nineteen seventy six in Durham, North Carolina. She was the youngest of three children born to Nancy in Stancil Roberts. Leah was known to those who loved her as an intelligent, introspective, and deeply curious person, someone drawn to philosophy, literature, and big questions about life and meaning. She was fluent in Spanish, as well as both a vegetarian and a smoker.

10:36 Hey now balanced, Yeah, and so. To me, it just seems an odd contradiction to be a vegetarian and also a smoker, Like those two lifestyle choices are not necessarily diametrically opposed, but it's just an observation as an outside outside you know, to her inner world, and I don't know, not mutually exclusive. Plenty of people like hold really health conscious or ethical food choices alongside other habits that kind of work against those same goals. We all contain multitudes. I actually wasn't able to find whether she was a vegetarian for whether it was like more of a health choice or more of like an ethical consideration.

11:25 I don't know so, but I just didn't like it meets yeah, gross, Like most of the time, I don't really like meat that much. It just I mean, obviously I'll eat pepperoni and a pizza. But like if I think about it too much, or if I'm like chewing like steak, because you have like when it's chewy, I don't know if it's it just depends on the mood and what I'm thinking about, and if it's infiltrating. I can get grossed out by meat like pretty quickly. It's not hard to do, even as someone that is definitely a meditarian. She had a strong Southern accent and beauty mark on the right side above her upper lip. Oh, I love a beauty mark. I know, so, Marilyn of her I know, even though Marilyn's was fake.

12:11 It's fine. Yeah, I think I knew that at some point, and then I always forget because it was such like a core thing. It is fake, right, I'm positively I don't know. Google now I'm down. I know Google it it was real. It's real. That's what Google is. That Why did I think it was fake? So here's what it says. Yes, Marilyn Monroe's famous mole was real, but it wasn't always as dark as it appeared on screen. Oh. She naturally had a faint, flesh toned mole on her lower left cheek, which she regularly traced and accentuated using an eyebrow pencil to create her iconic dark beauty mark. Okay, that's why. Okay, so it looks fake because she was like doing.

13:01 It up, and if you're wearing like makeup, obviously you know you have to like either swab it off to like have a show or like yeah color. Yeah, okay, so we're it was both fake and real. Yeah, huh huh. Known for her warm and engaging personality, when Lea was enrolled at NCSU, her course of study was a double major in Spanish and anthropology, though for many the college experience isn't without challenges. Her college years were marked by compounding personal tragedy. It was during her sophomore year that her mother, Nancy, died suddenly of heart disease.

13:42 It was soon after, in the fall of nineteen ninety eight, when Leah was involved in the car accident that could have claimed her life. The resulting injury to her femur requiring surgery that left a metal rod the length of her right femur and a surgical scar on her right hip. Shit, yeah, pretty intense, but surprisingly, she told her sister Kara, she felt born again after her recovery. As someone who's never broken a bone, I have to imagine it has to, in some respects be kind of a transformative experience. I'll have to ask my brother, we're going to bone that badly? Yeah? Yeah, I don't know.

14:22 He was so young, Like, was that your experience, like even at a like pre k age, or is that only. When it happens like as an adult. I feel born again. That's because my memory showed up. I don't remember anything else for her memory so short. I'm starting over. The third and final blow in the spring of nineteen ninety eight, just three weeks before she was scheduled to leave for a field work slash study program in Costa Rica, her father's Stancil, who had battled a chronic lung illness since Leo was seventeen, died well. So from what I understand, because he had been kind of chronically ill, I think that her, even though her mother died first, it was like she was so actively like kind of trying to caretake for him that it was like kind of one of those situations where you like forget to take about, like take care of yourself in a way, which I think is like, that's just really sad. It's hard because you know that's like the love of her life. And and then you know, for Leah, now she's lost both both of her parents. Yeah, I know, she decided to go to Costa Rica anyway because she no longer had living parents. She granted her sister Kara, power of attorney over her bank accounts before leaving the country.

15:53 Her brother said she wanted to see the world and spread her wings. And I feel like at that point, you've earned it. You know, you've been through a lot, and I think people deserve to be able to go and have experiences and travel regardless. But it's like, girl, you, more than anybody, know that life can be so short. Yes, yeah, you know that is very true. Leah spoke to her sister Kara, and though her plans for the future were very uncertain, their conversation seemed relatively normal, ending with warm sisterly regards, the pair both apparently expecting to see each other soon. That was March ninth, two thousand.

16:37 That same afternoon, Leah agreed to join Nicole for a babysitting gig the following day, but Leah missed the babysitting appointment the next day. So this is after she's returned from Costa Rica. Just to kind of like clarify in terms of the timeline, okay, I just thought it was like, it's a really unique thing because I feel like having you know, in such a short time, like her mom had already passed away the year prior. But then her dad dies less than a month. Before she's supposed to go to Costa Rica. I could understand the temptation to be like, I can't, like I just don't have it in me to still go and do this trip. But you know, she went, and this is after she's come back. But later in the day, when Nicole returned, Leah and her white nineteen ninety three jeep Cherokee were gone.

17:32 No, I love a jeep Cherokee Cheroke. Because Leah hadn't kept a consistent schedule since dropping out of school, Nicole wasn't initially concerned. She was like, eh, I mean, yeah, she said she'd come do the babysitting with me, and like she didn't show up, but like, eh, whatever, you know, and now she's not here when I come home. But like she doesn't have a normal like nine to five or you. Know, she's a free spirit. Yeah. However, by March eleventh, when she was still unreachable the family and friends trying to contact her, they were growing pretty worried. Two days later, on March nineteenth, Kara reported her missing to the Durham Police Department. On March fourteenth, Kara and Nicole searched Leah's room. It was apparent to them that a number of personal items and much of her clothing were missing. And I'd argue the biggest giveaway so was b No the kiddy for kitty.

18:40 I love that cat. I don't know this cat. I know I don't. I looked so hard to try to find like pictures of her too, and the yeah, they found a note reading I'm not suicidal, I'm the opposite. Whoa, that's unsaide like it shouldn't be that should be a good thing. But right, why would you need to why would you. Need to say that? Yeah? Exactly, It's like you're trying to convince yourself almost yes, yeah, it just very much is giving the lady doth protest too much to me? You know, yeah, weird okay.

19:20 Aside from that rather ominous statement, the note made reference to Kerawhak and included a drawing of the Cheshire cat's grin ooh yeah. Alongside the note was enough money to cover expenses for their apartment for roughly a month. Using her power of attorney, Kara was able to access Leah's bank records. Leah's route had been partially reconstructed through bank records, receipts, and confirmed sightings. Leah had withdrawn several thousand dollars on the afternoon of March ninth. Her debit card had been used for a motel room near Memphis, then for gas and food along a route, suggesting she was traveling west on I forty and then north on I five after reaching California.

20:13 Oh okay, I made it to the PNW. The last activity on her accounts was a gas purchase shortly after midnight on March thirteenth in Brooks, Oregon. Investigators would learn from one of Leah's friends that she had talked specifically about wanting to visit Desolation Peak in Washington, inspired by Kerouac's tenure there as a fire lookout in nineteen fifty six. So it's a gorgeous spot. It overlooks Ross Lake and I looked you unfortunately cannot stay there. It's a great loss to the Kerouac community well, and just people that enjoy the great outdoors. But it's beautiful.

20:58 You can definitely still hike it. It is apparently a pretty challenging hike. So it looks like it would be. It looks high up and it's like in the mountains. It is. Yeah, it's it's like desolate is the word for sure. Can't breathe up there that, yeah, the air would be thinner. As they continued to investigate, police recovered security camera footage from the gas station in Brooks, Oregon just before one am on March thirteenth. It shows Leah alone no obvious signs of distress, but in the short time she appeared on screen while completing her transaction, her gaze kept straying towards the parking lot because there apparently weren't any cameras placed outside or that had a clear view of the parking lot. It's unclear what or who she might have been looking at.

21:54 Why not put cameras on the park lot? Honestly, honestly because especially those little kind of gas station mini mart type, you know, businesses, they get robbed frequently or they have to deal with all kinds of situations. I just yeah, I will never understand. But it was a different time. This was This was like nine to eleven, hadn't even happened. Okay, so was twenty six years ago, basically damn. That same day, Leah arrived in Bellingham, Washington, roughly a five to six hour drive from Bricks, Oregon. Just after one thirty that afternoon, she bought a ticket to a two ten showing of the movie American Beauty Oh Snap, Yeah at the bellis Fair Mall Theater. So that also is like dating this era. Horde is the ticket stub later found in a keepsake box in her jeep.

22:56 Is how her arrival in Bellingham was confirmed. Near the theater was the mall's reportedly only sit down restaurant, Elephant and Castle. Police interviewed two men that had also been there that evening who had spoken with her about her Carauac inspired road trip. One man called into. Authorities and the other they were able to track down, but the two had differing stories. The first man they spoke to after he came forward, said he hadn't seen Leah leave there with anyone. Barry enters the chat when police hear the second man's story. He said Leah left with a man that night that he heard her call Barry Berry.

23:44 Okay. He was able to describe Barry in such great detail that they had him work with a sketch artist. Not only did the other man not recall seeing Barry, but neither did any of the other restaurant customers. Was Barry a ghost? I mean? Is this the eerie par that's so weird? Law enforcement may have been more inclined to believe the first man, as he had readily come forward rather than waiting to be tracked down, but it doesn't seem as though they dismissed the barrier of it all, like outright, they fully followed this up, but Barry only existed in the mind and recollection of the second man that had been sitting.

24:29 Next to Why would you make that up too? That is so weird, right, Yeah, why would you make that up? Is he Berry? It's hard to say. I don't believe the identity of most of these people that are, you know, witnesses after the fact. I don't think that their identities have really been released publicly. Not saying he's guilty, But that is interesting that if everyone else, nobody else remembers Barry. But means it's like you made up Berry and you attacked her after she left. That's why no one else remembers anything. I'm not saying that happen. That's just what is going through my mind.

25:10 Yeah, it doesn't seem an unreasonable theory. Okay, man number two? Who are you? Man number two? It was five days after the last sighting of Leah, early on the morning of March eighteenth, two thousand, that a couple jogging along Canyon Creek Road made discovery on a side route of the Mount Baker Highway in Wacom County, roughly thirty miles east of Bellingham. They noticed clothing near the top of a slope. Now, depending on the source, the clothing was found either hanging on the trees or is other descriptions. State tied to them.

25:52 Okay, both are a bit odd just given the location, but one is I think decidedly creepier tied. Mm hmmm, okay, good, I'm glad we're on the same page about that. Unless it's windy and she didn't want them to blow away, I don't know. It's weird either way. That caught their attention, of course, because they're like, what are these clothes doing here? Yeah, as any good Samaritan or sacrificial lamb in a horror movie, would they continued to follow the trail. Were the clothes like on different trees? You know, it's not described in enough detail. It seems like it was a singular tree. Okay.

26:37 I think that just caught their attention, and then they kind of continued. Along because I'm like, the trail if the clothes were tied to different trees from yes, like you're trying to find your way back or something or exactly. Yeah, that would be a completely valid reason I supposed to do to do that. Eventually, they found Leah's white. Jeep Cherokee at the bottom of a steep embankment, severely damaged. As of course, the location would imply down an embankment is not usually where you want your car to go. No, please, Just in case that was unclear, they called nine to one one. Several things stood out to deputies immediately upon arriving to the remote scene. I mean, number one, it's remote. The vehicle's broken windows had been covered with blankets and pillows.

27:28 It looked like someone may have been using it for shelter. The North Carolina plate JVP DASH two eight eight one traced back to the missing persons report Kara had filed. They were able to recover Lea's driver's license, passport, credit card, checkbook, guitar CDs, and twenty four hundred dollars in cash from the vehicle. Perhaps even more significantly, though, items. That were not found. Leah, Right, Leah, that's a pretty significant Her cat carrier along with cat food were found, but there was no sign of be Oh.

28:13 Also found underneath. The driver's side floor Matt a prized piece of jewelry that Leah had never been known to willingly remove her mother's wedding ring. Oh, that's suspicious, right ominous, And. In a spot where even if someone was going to be rummaging through the vehicle, they might not come across that. It kind of seems like they're like, you're trying to make an effort to protect it. But robbery did not appear to be a motive or whatever occurred with so many valuables left behind in her vehicle, Well, sure a cat napper, right is it a valuable cat? I don't know.

28:55 Nothing I have learned has led me to believe that's the case, but as possible, but there was little evidence to support any other theories of foul play. There was no blood or shattered glass, no signs of injury, or any evidence of a struggle. Leah's siblings, Kara and Heath, flew to Bellingham within days. They visited the spot where her vehicle had been discovered. They worked with the Sheriff's office, creating and distributing flyers throughout Bellingham, asking locals they encountered if anyone had seen their sister. Washington State Patrol investigators determined the jeep had been traveling at nearly forty miles per hour uphill before going over the embankment, rolling multiple times on its downward trajectory nikes. A vehicle losing control or a driver braking in an emergency would typically leave skid marks, but on the road above the embankment, none were found. Their absence suggested that Jeep had not left the road by accident, or maybe she just couldn't see how many lights are up there, you know, Yeah, I guess it's hard to say too. We don't know when necessarily this occurred. You know. It could have been broad daylight, could have been late at night. Oh yeah, we don't really have a way to know for sure. Search teams covered the surrounding terrain extensively in the weeks that followed,

30:28 utilizing cadaver dogs and helicopters throughout early April, as well as metal detectors. The latter would be capable of locating the metal rod in Leah's lake. Oh yeah, genius. If they were to recover remains that were not immediately identifiable. Such medical devices typically also have serial numbers for identification. Still, nothing was found, not a single trace of Leah or her kitten. The absence of physical trace, no footprints or clothing fragments, no biological evidence anywhere in the surrounding terrain is one of the most unsettling aspects of the case.

31:11 What about the clothes? Are the where those hers? Or was that just random? You know? I really didn't find where that was conclusively determined. Huh. So, I mean when I say that, like all of that, like the lack of any trace that, it's like, that's so unsettling. It's like it's just especially given how extensive the search was. That's what makes it so eerie. That is weird. About a week after the jeep was found, an anonymous man called the wocom County Sheriff's office to report that his wife had seen a woman matching Leah's description, disoriented and confused at a Texico gas station in Everett, Washington, near Seattle.

31:56 How far away is that from there? From where the car was like an hour away? It looks like, is that right? No, it's actually like two hours away. I mean it's not close. My recollection was more like three hours, to be honest. But yeah, I mean it's just it's. Not close, but on foot it would be like forever. Yeah, exactly like, she doesn't have a vehicle, so it does kind of start to like some other questions kind of start ruminating in your mind. Though the man seemed a bit panicked and hung up before identifying himself, the police considered that tip credible, though it does not appear that it actually led to any particular breakthrough in the case.

32:42 Following the crash and her subsequent disappearance, Leah's jeep remained in the custody of the Wokam County Sheriff's Office for years. In that time, the car was never fully processed. Why it's a really good question full and like a missing person's investigation. You know, it's funny you should say that. It wasn't until two thousand and six. When investigators began re examining the case, that a critical discovery was made. Oh weird. I know what, you process all of the evidence, you find something what holy shit, holy shit balls.

33:23 I'm trying to tell you how to do your job. Well a little bit, a little bit, just a little They opened the hood of her jeep for the first time. I don't want to know, literally hadn't even opened the hood, Like what. If you're looking for a cat right, hullu he lure. Yeah, a cat in particular, they are really like cats, squirrels other small mammals. They are very well known for trying to like hide in engine blocks and stuff, especially when it's cold. Huh. Thankfully, that's not why we're here. Okay, good, but still like that's the first place you look for a damned cat of car.

34:05 I don't literally, if you removed the engine from the car, you could presumably also fit a whole ass human in there. So the fact that they never opened it is fucking wild. Oh yeah, she could have been in there. She could have been Is that likely? No, but people are fucking weird, especially murderers. Yeah, there could have been a fucking note, anything. There could have been a gun, literally anything. Whoa, that's crazy to me. Yep. So they opened the hood of her jeep for the very first motherfucking time, which is insane. Everybody take a deep breath and process that. What are they find?

34:49 And found that the cover for the starter relay had been removed and a wire had been cut. My official assessment was that you should never cut wires in your car if you're anything like me, and for the most part don't really know what they do, good things slightly more mechanically inclined. People have offered explanation of the significance on this one, because I don't know a break line? What is it? The modification would apparently allow the jeep to accelerate on its own or from outside the vehicle, simply by pushing on the relay, so as long as the key was in the ignition, it could accelerate without a driver.

35:32 Essentially what that is? I don't understand this at all. I should have looked up like YouTube videos to like make my brain understand the mechanics of this better. It felt like a little bit of a rabbit hole. But why wouldn't the car just stop working if something is cut? Just it stopped in a workie? No more cut it cut makes it worky extra hard. That makes no sense. I'm terrified. I'm getting rid of my cheep cherokey right this instant. I don't like this at all all. This meant that Lea's jeep could be sent down the embankment with no one inside of it, apparently confirming what investigators had long suspected.

36:19 The crash had been deliberately staged, and the tampering itself required real mechanical knowledge. Damn, I'm scared. Yeah, it is scary. They also recovered fingerprints from the underside of the hood. No shit, weird, almost like. Somebody had opened the hood and did that thing and then they left their prints there. But how would you know that if you never opened it? How many years after? Six years later, in two thousand and seven, Watcom County detectives sent several articles of Leah's clothing to the FBI for DNA testing. By twenty ten, a small amount of male DNA was identified on an article of clothing found near the scene. I don't know if that was in the trees or if it was just found near her car. Unclear, But all these years later, no update has been made available to the public. The possessor of that male DNA his identity, if it is known, has also never been made public.

37:27 So if they identified who that DNA belonged to, they have never said. I'm irritated, because it's honestly pretty fucking irritating. Can you imagine if they had this information. Right when they found a basic What we do know is that the technology related to DNA testing and processing matches and all of that it's made leaps and bounds, all of. These strides and advancements. I don't know, you know what result they would have gotten from the DNA back in two thousand in versus two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, twenty ten. But at least you would have collected it. You could say you did it, which feels like, if nothing else, check the motherfucking box.

38:12 You know. Pretty wild. Both discoveries led investigators back to the second man from the restaurant, the one who claimed to have seen Leah leave with. Barry, the fake Barry. He had a military background and experience as a mechanic, which made the nature of the tampering particularly relevant to his potential involvement. I told you he did it. I called it. From the moment you said you talked about it. I was like, he did it. You're gonna that guy. You're gonna really have some oh shit moments here. I don't know that they're going to be that satisfying. I'm gonna I'm gonna lead with that so that I'm you know, tempering your expectations. He had since relocated to the Great Wild North aka Canada, requiring investigators to work with Canadian authorities to obtain his fingerprints and DNA in two thousand and eight. His fingerprints were compared to the print found under the hood, but they weren't a match. Okay.

39:15 Whatever. The DNA comparison result has never been publicly disclosed. As of the most recent sourcing available, more than twenty five years after Lea disappeared, it still hasn't been One would assume if it had been a match, there might have been movement in the case. But if that's all they had, maybe not. Maybe just the presence of his DNA on an article of her clothing wouldn't be enough. Also, keep this in mind because he's in Canae area. Plenty of countries have been reticent to relinquish citizens to our nation in the past, frequently quite fond of lengthy incarceration as well as capital punishment.

40:05 They don't want to send people back. We can't extradite a lot of people in a lot of countries because we have the death penalty. They will not send them here. That's interesting, So it could be something related to that. I don't know, that's honestly, you know, speculation on my part and you know, other parties on the internet. You know what I'm hearing in my head about like America. The other countries are the gingerbread man from Shrek You're a Monster. Yeah, pretty much. I would say that that's a really good that's a meme of of sort of the whole deal.

40:51 Yeah, yeah, I like it. Sums it up nicely. I think Leah leaving the Bellis Fair restaurant with a man she called Barry remains one of the most contested claims related to the case for obvious reasons. I don't believe in Berry at all, not for a second. I kind of think Barry is perhaps a ghost or a figment of someone's imagination. It's hard to say, but seems reasonable enough to me. This is about as close to like a haunting as I've gotten, I think in a while. Only one of the two men interviewed reported seeing a third person. No other patron or staff member corroborated it. Whether Berry existed has never been established, at least in relation to this case. Nobody is saying that all berries are fictional, only that this supposed berry allegedly might be All berries are birds aren't real.

41:53 Have you watched that show Berry? No? Oh my god, you should watch it. Okay, it's difficult to say for sure base on the available information, but no one matching the police sketch description has ever been identified or located. That's the other thing. If you have a sketch and that's been released, you know, at at any level, you would think usually someone comes forward and goes, hey, you know, I do have this friend and like this. Even this happens in a lot of cases where they're like, well, their name isn't Barry, but I do know a guy that looks like that, you know, Like, I don't know whether the witness was reporting something he genuinely saw, attempting to mislead investigators, or himself involved in what happened to Leah remains unknown. This individual has never been charged and maybe entirely innocent for legal reasons. He is someone investigators re examined due to his mechanical and military background, not someone the public record confirms as a suspect.

43:04 He was tested but never really implicated. Okay, mister runaway to Canada. Hopefully the Mounies are keeping their eyes open in his direction in case, eh exactly, And I feel like that in particular, is we're going to get into it because remember I said, were the cloth we were talking about, were the clothes hanging on the tree where they tied to the tree. Like the differences in kind of like the impression that gives. We're going to get into that more because there have been some people that have had some really hot takes on this case, and they have said some things that I'm like, you guess your mother with that mouth, but you said that with your chest, And I'm like, you might be right, you could be, but that is that is a hard line to take for somebody who is not personally actually investigating this, boots on the ground just saying huh okay, so foul play.

44:09 Many believe leah encountered someone after arriving in Bellingham, and that whatever happened afterward wasn't her own doing. Entirely possible, right, I mean, the stage crash strongly implies at least one other person was involved. I mean, some people believe anyway, someone cut the starter relay wire, someone covered the broken windows with blankets, someone placed clothing in the trees along Canyon Creek Road. None of this is consistent with an accident like a traditional car collision. Whether leah encountered this person willingly or was taken against her will? Debatable, unknown, unclear.

44:52 Here is the part where people have some hot takes, and I think maybe they need to take several deep breaths and potentially several roll seats. I see where they're coming from. But WHOA, they're sir, self staged voluntary disappearance. That's what I was thinking, Yeah, and that is a totally fair and valid theory. People have said some things that I felt like were a little strong. I do think there's a fair bit of evidence to kind of support this theory. I don't think she did it, though, because of the ring and the money, right, So I think.

45:34 Basically just people were saying it's really fucked up what she did, and they were taking this very hard line stance that like, she staged this crash, she voluntarily disappeared, and she is a bad person and blah blah blah, And I'm like. An interesting thought, but I don't think she did it. And that could be true, and that could be true, and in that case I kind of would maybe be inclined to agree. I just think this is someone that still spoiler alert has not been located, and like saying certain things and stating them like their facts is kind of it's not something I would do. Yeah, that's all I'll say.

46:16 Huh, I've probably said plenty. A separate and genuinely. Widely held theory holds that Leah herself staged the crash and chose to vanish a deliberate, permanent break from her old life. Her emotional state, her Cara Wax fixation, and the note she left kind of all support this reading of the facts like this theory, and at least one recent source frames this as the leading theory rather than a secondary one. Like a lot of people definitely think this is like a very strong possibility, but again because we don't know.

46:59 But it would be harder, Like it's a. Cool theory and like a movie where you can like, oh, I have someone to get them fake ideas and blah blah blah blah blah. It's easy in a movie, but like, yeah, realistically, it is not easy. It's hard. It is not easy. Would you live like with no ideas and things right, And there's a lot of very practical considerations that go into that. Why I haven't done it yet? She would literally like she was not somebody who had a background where she could have done the thing to the car herself, right there was no YouTube, well I guess there was, Yeah, but. I don't know that you were going to find a video that tells you how to do that.

47:40 She would have to know that that was something you even could do to a car, which to me just kind of leans more in the direction of like whether it was in cooperation with her or against her will, whatever the situation. It kind of it really does seem like there had to have been somebody else involved at some level. Barry was a man in black. He wiped everyone's memory of him at the restaurant, ex for that one guy. He forgot I was wearing sunglasses. Ah, now we figured it out. See how crazy that sounds, you guys, But you're welcome. I mean, you know, well, like that's more logical than her just figuring out how to have a new identity all by herself.

48:25 Like I mean, I'm not saying it's impossible, but yeah, I'm inclined to agree. I just think, like, I don't know that I fully buy that, and I don't know. I don't know her, but having like her parents gone, I feel like she would not abandon her siblings like that, Like in that way. Yeah, that's kind of my thought too, And I'm like, you might be a free spirit, but like that kind of comes across almost more like sociopaths. Yeah, you know, like there's a difference. Just to be clear, not everyone who's a free spirit is a monster, because that would be a little bit monstrous to me to do that to the remaining family you have left. I don't know, And maybe she had a good reason to do that, but again, I just feel like there are a lot of people that like they feel so strongly about a theory that they kind of say things in a way that they're almost like stating it like fact. Yeah, And I just think that's irresponsible. And I realized that in this country we've been led to believe that that's okay to do. However, I disagree.

49:32 So I know, I feel like we're always so careful to be like, Okay, that's probably not or maybe not, And this is just like a theory that we're if it hasn't coming up with like specifically explicitly proven. I just feel like, why would you not qualify certain statements and certain like. Theories, Yeah, because you're an asshole? Maybe I was literally just because oh, maybe you're an asshole. What do we both w spread asshold, Yeah, that's right, saying with your chest, because they're saying that shit. With their chest at all anyway. But the theory is significantly undermined by what she left behind her siblings, obviously, her only remaining family, over two thousand dollars in cash, her identification, her passport, her mother's ring, and possibly her kitten. Like we don't we don't know where the cat is. I mean, I guess it could be with her. There has been no confirmed financial activity or verified sighting of her since March thirteen, two thousand.

50:38 Sustaining a self staged disappearance for over two decades without money or ID would be extraordinarily difficult. I mean you pointed that out right away. I was like, bitch my next line, because. I've thought about it and it's too hard. Yeah. Still, other possibilities were accident followed by wandering. It may seem implausible now, but following Leah's disappearance, police and her own family seriously entertained that this specific theory. For years, Kara Roberts had said both family members and police considered the possibility that Leah survived the crash having suffered a head injury resulting in amnesia. Totally possible. That's what I thought it at first, until Yeah, the whole car the car sabotage thing kind of undercuts that. Yeah, from there, it was entirely possible that she had wandered away from the scene just disoriented. The two thousand and six discovery of the tempered starter relay has since made.

51:47 This theory very difficult to sustain. The vehicle was confirmed to have gone over the embankment without a driver. There would be like blood, there would be something, There would be iological evidence of some sort. There would be torn clothing, there would be blood, there would be something. Yeah, for sure, I'm not anything. Yeah, I feel like it would be very difficult to walk away from a collision of that magnitude without leaving some sort of evidence of said collisions impact to your physical human shell in the beagle weird.

52:28 And then here's where it gets a little bit like I don't want to say tenfoil. Hat because I feel like it's worth exploring this and I feel like there's a reason it gets brought up. But I will say, we can't just point to all of the most famous serial killers and say done, solved it, because that's not how this works. Israel Keys. Oh, I was like, which one is she? What time? Running time in my life? Who? Serial killing? Yeah? Unfair online speculation. So here's the thing. I feel like this one is very valid because truly, the breath and magnitude, the volume of his crimes, like they know that there are there are more, and they don't know who or where and when.

53:23 But he was alive long enough, and he traveled frequently enough that there's more. I hate it. Israel Keys, a confirmed serial killer active across the United States and known for targeting victims in remote locations before his twenty twelve arrest and death by suicide, is frequently raised in true crime forums and online comment threads. In particular, it's always in the comments in connection with Lea's case, among men many others. It is not the first time Israel's come up. No, no, Key's told the FBI investigators he had committed murders in Washington State. He spent a lot of time in and around the state of Washington, murders that he claimed to have staged to look like accidents. Oh speculation and comments online have suggested that could explain Leah's case, and certainly the level of sophistication with like the mechanical piece of things, I can see how you get going down that road. Though, it was important to note that no investigative source or verified reporting has ever linked Israel Keys to Leah Roberts case, not the Walcome County Sheriff's office, no major media outlet like not A And that wouldn't really be good enough for me, to be honest, because if enough people have this same idea, I feel.

54:46 Like I'm in 't me see what I can find. The fingerprint found under the hood has never been publicly identified as belonging to Keys, which isn't saying much because they've never identified who's printed. Was right, But I feel like if it did belong to someone who's known to serial kill, they. Might have they might have let that little tidbit go. I don't know, huh. You would think maybe I don't. Know whose fingerprint is it tell us they might not know either, And I think that's the truth of it. I don't think they know whose fingerprint it is someone off the grid. Perhaps to date, so far as we know, the individual that left those fingerprints behind has never been identified allow me to be explicit. Though the potential connection to Israel, Keys is purely unverified online speculation without a deep dive investigation.

55:45 I suppose we can't say it's impossible, but it does seem unlikely. And here's the thing I did. I did a little I did a little thing. Not hours and hours of work, but it did take some time. Time. There's no indication that Keys was near the area at the time of her disappearance. According to the FBI's map and timeline of his known travels and activity from nineteen ninety seven to twenty twelve, Keys was stationed in Egypt on a temporary duty assignment from January fifteenth to June first of two thousand, all right, making it pretty unlikely that you know, hop skip and a jump and multiple flights and yeah.

56:31 I like that. There's a time, a time, map, time, map time, Yeah, timeline and a map line. Yeah, thank you. I mean some people that's not going to be enough for them, And I get it. He was certainly a real duplicitus taint and I wouldn't put it past him, but I'm like, he was assigned there, you guys, I don't like in record. Yeah, it's pretty hard for them to just kind of sneak away from Egypt and right beer b ib guys, I just have to go and like for why because it's not like he knew Leo, Like, oh, I've been. Like what, I've been called to this remote location from Egypt.

57:12 R Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's a pretty definitive, like six month block of time roughly where we're like, I feel confident saying he was pretty definitely like not in the state of Washington. Do you think he killed people in Egypt? A lot of people think so. A lot of people think so, and not necessarily in like a military capacity. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I was thinking, Like, but a. Lot of people are attracted to the military, oh for that, oh boy, yeah, it's troubling. And law enforcement yeah yeah. Wait, you're telling me there's a position that will legally protect me when I kill someone?

57:54 What what? Leah's siblings, Kara and Heath, have remained central to keeping Leah's case alive. They flew to Bellingham within days of her jeep being found and visited the crash site, as well as their grassroots efforts with flyers in the community. So they flyed the shit out of Bellingham, Kara told Larry King Live in two thousand and five. We're just trying to keep Leah's face out there as much as possible. Community United Effort or Q, was founded in Wilmington, North Carolina, to provide assistance in missing persons cases, boosting public awareness and advocating for those impacted like their families. They deploy volunteers to support search efforts and operate a twenty four hour public tip line. In two thousand and five, they organized a fourteen day expedition that would retrace Lea's route from her home in North Carolina all the.

58:53 Way west to Bellingham. They're on the Road to Remember tour has become an annual tradition aimed at raising awareness for not just Lea's case, but other cases and nationwide. That's a long trip to do every year. Holy guacam Molly, Holly, guacam Moly. Indeed, though her case has been featured on Unsolved Mysteries and Disappeared, among other programs, Leah Roberts has never been found. Her GEEP remains in police custody, and, in the words of one investigator featured on Disappeared, that car has something to tell us because we don't have a crime scene, we don't have a body. It told us, yeah, literally told us yeah. Someone cut the line. Yeah, better late than never.

59:46 But Jesus Christ, I think the other thing is the fact that there's like someone else's fingerprints too. Was like, hmm, and he knows. I kind of looked at it if she was having like car trouble or something. I don't know, but like to me, says someone else was with her at some point. It's so hard though, because you can't really date a fingerprint necessarily, Like you can tell when a fingerprint maybe is like super recent versus very old, but like that is very imprecise from what I understand, could have been like an oil change or yep, exactly. Investigators believe her remains are likely somewhere in the area surrounding where the jeep was discovered. The case remains open, though no arrests have ever been made and no legal declaration of death has ever been publicly reported.

1:00:41 Twenty six years, they've never declared her dead. Wow. The case of Leah Toby Roberts remains classified as missing, not legally deceased. In many cases, the disappeared are declared presumed dead for practical purposes such as settling a state claims or death benefits, or any number of other legal and or financial reasons, like completely logical things. Leah was in her twenties, almost certainly didn't have her own life insurance policy, had no spouse, no children, and had already granted Kara power of attorney over her bank accounts before she left, before she left for Costa Rica all that time back.

1:01:27 That was a little odd of a thing to I don't think that's like a standard thing to do when you're just leaving the country for a vacation, right. Not necessarily, but if both of your parents are deceased, and you know, that's going to make you frame things differently. Okay. She also had, you know, a modest inheritance after her parents had passed, so okay, I'm sure she wanted them to be able to access that money, whether you know, in case of emergency, for so many different potential reasons. I don't necessarily think that that's unusual in and of itself, but that may have given the family enough practical access to whatever modest assets existed her inheritance, which you know, she wasn't going to retire, but she at the time, you know, had dropped out of college, wasn't really working, and she was kind of living off of that. Okay, So without ever needing a formal death declaration to unlock anything beyond that kind of pragmatic explanation that side of things, there's an incredibly emotional aspect to that. Some families of long term missing persons deliberately avoid pursuing legal death declaration, specifically because it can feel like giving up the search. Yeah, even decades in or in cases that perhaps the likely outcome has already been accepted by them and kind of unconfirmed as near to fact private given that Kara has

1:03:02 spent over two decades organizing, putting up flyers, you know, they've had their advocacy campaigns and the caravans. Yeah, I mean the expedition that they're doing, you know, annually and media appearances to keep Lee's case alive. It wouldn't be surprising if pursuing a death declaration simply never aligned with how the family has approached this. I mean that's purely speculation on my part, but like they don't need to, right, in a lot of respects, I think it's smart for them not to if you have them legally declared dead because you have to for practical purposes. There's a little bit of a mental shift, I think for a lot of people as outsiders, and the grief that you would have to process, even not knowing.

1:03:50 Yeah, it's very different to like put it out there, yeah in. Concrete like, yeah, we're saying she's dead and then if she comes back, like then what, Yeah, to go through a whole nother leag thing to me get her alive again. Yeah, No, quite literally. I mean that obviously in rare instances like that, you know that has and can happen. But I get why maybe they they don't need to, and I get why they wouldn't want to. Anyone with information is ask to contact the detective sergeant of the Wocome County Sheriff's Office. We'll put the phone numbers for the Sheriff's office and for their dispatch center in the show notes and that's that's it. That's as far as this goes. And I apologize because I feel like I kind of feel like I'm ending in like this kind of abrupt way, but it's like that's that's where we're at.

1:04:48 Yeah, every time you talk about a missing person who's just never been found, like, it just makes me realize how big the world actually is, Like we can't find somebody, like right, so crazy to me. I know that's the part that to me that really does it just makes you feel small in a way that like most of the time, Like you know, we talked about this earlier, it's like, oh yeah, I feel like an adult kind of now. But like when you're a kid, you feel like everything is so big and there's you know, and these cases make you feel like that again, like in a way it is scarier way, but like very similar to like when you're a kid and everything just feels like whoa. I mean, if if there's any case that you know has a good chance of like being solved, it's you know, there's a lot we can do with DNA. You know, she has the metal rod that should help to make things, you know, in terms of identification a little bit easier. But it's it's been a long time.

1:05:56 Well should we see what the taro has to say. Let's do some teraro about it. I don't know why, but this one is I feel like it's just sitting heavy, you know, it is I think the missing. The missing cases kind of always have. They do for me, thinking that like every because you just did one like pretty recently too. Yeah. I have been trying to do some more of the missing because I do feel like as heavy as they feel in a lot of respects, like to research, to write, and then you know, to talk about. I feel like that's kind of how we pay our dues in a way, you know, just solely talking about like sort of the sensational serial killer cases. While those can be really interesting, I feel like we owe it to kind of the community and to the victims of you know, some of these crimes to share the stories that like we don't have an end to.

1:06:54 Yeah, yeah, that could have an end at some point hopefully. Yeah, And this has happen been in our lifetime. It's crazy to think about like where we were, you know, March two thousand in middle school, right, Yeah, Yeah, I know it's crazy. Great, Yeah, I feel like I would have been. Yeah. I think you're right. That perspective is just like it's wild. It's wild to think that she has been missing that long and like all of the things that have happened in our lives, obviously she is older, you know, than us. Yeah, but yeah, I mean it's just wild to think about, like all of these people that like their stories overlap with ours in terms of all of human existence.

1:07:44 But speaking of human existence, Oh boy, what Larry King is dead? What when he died in twenty twenty one? Oh, I felt like I had some memory, like, okay of him passing during COVID times. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't know if it was due to COVID. I didn't look why Yeah, yeah, but. Yeah, I was curious. That's interesting because he, I mean. His Larry King live thing was like eighty years long. Oh my god? Yes, really though? Wow, Okay, and you've got a good picker. I've been doing all the picking, are you sure?

1:08:27 Yeah? I feel like we can kind of like reel it rather Yeah, if we do like it, But I feel like I want you to be the one to draw it. I'm feeling kind of towards the left, like you're left. That's way, That's where I was headed. Yeah, okay, so so far we're doing good. We're like drawing to the same place. Is there any of them that kind of stick out to you? I was thinking that one or like even lefter yeah, that one or that one. I don't feel in this one. What do you think? Go? Go do them both? Well, grab the first one. I want to see what that is because got that aside.

1:09:09 Oh I kept seeing this one while I was shuffling the Ace of Cups and it was in reverse. It was in reverse. Okay, aout the card. We've gotten a lot, a lot in reverse. Okay, I'm pulling the other card now, just go. Oh she wants to know the Night of Pentacles in reverse. And it's interesting because it's like a deer running away from something. Oh interisonte Okay, I think we've gotten the Night of Pentacles before. But not often. Yeah, not as often. Ace of Cups are keywords are new, love, beginning, a creative activity, and joy. Well she was so creative, right, she had the guitar. Yeah, she had a lot of creative pursuits, that's for sure. The reverse A can indicate a delay in starting a relationship. It can also mean a romance that seemed promising doesn't develop or turnout as you'd hoped.

1:10:10 Barry, I mean, if he's real, this may not be. The right time to start something new, Verry, huh. In a reading about money, The reversed ace suggests you may have to wait a while to profit from a new venture, or it can mean you won't make as much as you'd hoped. If the reading is about your work, you may encounter delays in landing your dream job. For creative people, this ace can represent a dry spell when you feel stifled or uninspired. That feels on. Point, Yeah, like quitting school.

1:10:50 Yeah, and I do think this first line, you may encounter delays in landing your dream job. It's funny because I know, like I think back to her wanting specifically to go to Desolation. Peak and that being like kind of a job that Kerouak. Held in the Overlook. You know, yeah, I don't know that. That just kind of sparks for me. But in a reading about love, you may run into obstacles, limitations, or disappointments. Well, there were some obstacles a Night of Pentacles. Also in reverse. Our keywords are steadfastness, practicality, caution, lethargy, narrowness, and boredom, the two of them combined.

1:11:40 I feel like we're picking up a vibe like a free spirit wanderer. Yeah, type of vibe. Yeah, reversed The Night of pentacles can mean stagnation, stubbornness, and inability to step outside the box and traditional ways of doing things. Lack of imagination or courage can limit success. If the reverse Night signifies an actual person, he's probably a young man without vision or curiosity, a stick in the mud. He may lack spiritual insight because his focus is on money and material possessions. Sometimes the reverse Night shows a hedonistic nature or a willingness to take the low road if that leads to wealth or status.

1:12:27 Weird. Interesting. I don't know if this feels like sort of the antithesis of Leah, or if this feels like it's identifying maybe a male person of interest. Yeah, that's like what I'm getting. That's when I first pulled it, because it's like even the difference in how the cards look like one is very beautiful and very like Leah. Yeah, Leah, and the other one's like a male deer. Yeah he's running away. Running away, And yeah, that's interesting. It does look like a mountain behind. The deer too. It does. In a reading about money, this card suggests you're so caught up in making money you can't enjoy anything else. Conversely, it may say you lack the patience, persistence, and pragmatism to prosper. If the reading is about your job, the reverse night indicates boredom, but you aren't willing to do what's necessary to improve your lot. Laziness, lack of direction, indulgence, or feelings of unworthiness can inhibit your success.

1:13:34 In a reading about. Love, You're bored but unwilling to put in the necessary effort to revive a romance. You're just slogging along, sloggingo. Perhaps a relationship is based on security, financial, or otherwise. You long for a change, but you're afraid to go for it. It is interesting, though, because I feel like whatever happened, they obviously weren't about the money, because there was money left behind. Yeah, or maybe they just didn't know about I don't know. I think if you were killing someone for their money, you would search for it. I don't know you. Would, Yeah, I mean you would think. Yeah. I mean I feel like that particular point kind of almost points to less of a person of interest in the shady kind of like, oh, this is like someone who targeted her, and more points more to like a collaborator.

1:14:31 Yeah, does that make sense? It's like, Okay, It's also very weird to me when people don't take money if someone's like murdered or something happens, like obviously, if kills them, should just take the money, right if they're gone anyway, And like that so awful, like if I were. But like when you get down to like these base human instincts, it's like, you know, there's like violence and greed, and you've been motivated to commit some act of violence. But like it makes me think they're like already a really really rich person.

1:15:13 Because if you were a killer and. You were just you know, living on minimum wage whatever, Like why wouldn't you just take the money just to have extra money? Like, yeah, maybe Washington, maybe Christian Gray Bruce Wayne type hybrid killer situation. It's so weird to me. Where is she? Yeah, I don't know. Huh. There is an extra excerpt between the upright and the reverse interpretations. You have fought some battles and enjoyed some adventures. Now you'd like to rest and regroup, maybe spend some time enjoying quieter, more domestic scenes.

1:16:01 Huh. Really interesting, that is weird. Yeah, did you have a chance. I don't know what to make of that. I know I'm not really sure either, but she have a chance to look at both of the Little Book stories and see what you think is like worth kind of like reflecting on yell me, Okay, this is kind of weird. Okay, So I'm going to read the. Night of Pentacle's uh interpretation from the Little Book, and just by the first couple of sentences, I'm kind of like, huh, okay. The black tailed buck turned hoof the silver coated doze. Ideas sounded grand, but could they ever really be achieved?

1:16:43 Some had followed her path, but this buck sure wouldn't I know what she thought of as progress? He called fantasy. Oh wow, the forest was the way it was for a reason, and it had been in that way for generations, at least the buck thought it had, and so why mess with it? Anyway? He knew that change happened best slowly, little by little. Let them try their big ideas and fail. He would work patiently for small changes. He'd start tomorrow or maybe the next day. Interesting. It is interesting because it's.

1:17:26 Like she had this idea of like her like wanderer face, and I feel like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe she came across someone who thought that maybe sounded good, but like. It wasn't really wasn't into it. I don't. Yeah, that is kind of the same. I don't know. That's kind of the vibe I was picking up. That's interesting, like we'll never know what happened, No, unless someday we do. I mean, yeah, I know. I hate to say yeah, no, we'll never know, because yeah, I. Mean maybe we will, but we don't now. Yeah, And I'm all about instant gratification, so I know, I know, Oh my gosh, should we do the thing. Yeah, let's do the thing, all right, have a.

1:18:14 Creepy as day. We'll see you next Thursday. I almost said Tuesday. Ah good, Yeah, well just because like we've been saying Thursday, and we've been remote a lot recently, but seeing you again in person and being here recording together, I was like, Tuesday brings you back to old day, Yes, nostalgia. Maybe we'll switch back to Tuesdays at some point, you guys don't who knows? Keeping me on your toes? Yeah, hopefully you come back next week. That's so weird. It was like muscle memory. I was like I had to force myself to say Thursday.