May 14, 2026

Nancy Moyer: Two Wine Glasses on the Table | Tenino, WA

Nancy Moyer: Two Wine Glasses on the Table | Tenino, WA
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On the evening of March 6, 2009, Nancy Moyer stopped at a grocery store in Tenino, Washington, paid by check, and drove home. After that night, she was never seen again. She left behind her purse, her keys, her car, and two wine glasses on the coffee table.

When Bill, her husband from whom she had separated, brought their daughters back two days later, he found the front door ajar, the lights still on – and no Nancy. Her purse was inside. Her keys were inside. Her car was in the driveway. She was not the kind of woman who walked away.

This episode details the sixteen-year search for answers in one of Thurston County’s most haunting cold cases — a case with two persons of interest, a decade of dead ends, a 911 confession that was taken back the next day, and a mother of two who has never been found.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

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The front door was ajar.

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The living room lights were on, the television was on

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a bedside lamp in Nancy's bedroom was still lit. On

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the coffee table sat too partially consumed glasses of wine.

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Her purse was inside her identification wallet, car keys, and

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cigarettes were all in the house. Her white Honda Civic

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del Soul was parked out front. There was no sign

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of a struggle, there was no sign of forced entry,

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and arguably most importantly, there was no Nancy.

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Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people.

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Oh hellou. This is PNW Hans and Homicides, where we

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chat about true crime, the paranormal, sometimes the Titanic, and.

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You know, we'll just whatever we're feeling. I guess whatever

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we want. It's our show. Oh yeah, don't leave us alone.

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And we also do Tara reading at the end of

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every episode, just you know, for a little insight into

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what we're talking about.

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All right, So we have a new member of the

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Patreon joining us. Yeah, joining us. It looks like for

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a whole year on the never Bundy Tier, which.

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Is congratulations to you. You're stuck with us.

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Yeah, So thank you to Peter for joining us, for

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one whole year.

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Thank you, Peter, Yay. We hope you love it here

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join the chat. It's really fun because, like I post

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a bunch of shit in the chat only for Patreon, so.

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I know, sometimes when I haven't been on there for

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like a few days, I'll pop on and be like,

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oh my gosh, what's happening here?

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There's there's things.

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Yeah, you get you get a little insight into our life.

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It's kind of like doing taro, yeah a little bit right.

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I know last time I posted a really nasty picture

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of myself in there, so you're welcome, you guys.

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I saw that. It was pretty cool.

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I was in the gift shop at Titanic and I

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was really excited because I found the heart of the

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ocean and I want to take a picture, but the

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lighting was horrible in there. Oh no, I'm ever going

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to see this photo but my friends. And then I

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was like, well, pictures my friends too, so I'll just

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send it in there.

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I love that.

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I know, maybe I'll have to take a picture of

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my first class teacup and saucer. Yes, it's very fun, say,

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I'm so excited.

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And went to the Titanic exhibit because I made her

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so excited.

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I know, well, and then it just so happened, and

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I'll just say this, Uh, Momsy has like a five

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dollars day every first Sunday of the month, and so

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it just so happened that right after we recorded your

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episode that Sunday was the cheaper Sunday. Now, of course

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they weren't going to let us in for just five

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dollars flat. There's like an up charge for the exhibit

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blah blah blah. But it ended up being like less

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than half price all in nice, so I felt good

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about it. And then it was so nice on the

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waterfront that you know, we kind of had a nice afternoon.

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Yeah, very Portland day. Yeah, it was all right.

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But the thing we're going to talk about isn't very

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portland Y because it's actually not in Portland.

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But you know, well, is it in the PNW. At

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least it is.

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As per Us if you're nasty, If you're nasty.

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Known as the Stone City for historic sandstone buildings to Nino,

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Washington is a rural town with a population of less

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than two thousand.

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Dang, it's very small. What is Sandstone? I wasn't prepared

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for that question.

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It's It's raw is a sedimentary rock formed by the

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accumulation and sementation of sand sized grains, predominantly quartz or feldspar,

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over millions of years.

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Oh see, that was interesting.

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Yeah, it's a tight knit community, the kind of place

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where you know your neighbors.

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I feel like that was like the last episode. You

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said that too. You've been doing small towns.

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Yeah, yeah, I feel like my vibe recently has been

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a little bit like small town seems.

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Safe, quiet, just kid. Yeah, I don't know.

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I feel like the last couple that I've come across

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that I've wanted to talk about that's just been like

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luck of the draw.

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But it does.

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It does feel a little bit like a theme recently.

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Tonoe strikes a balance between quiet, small town living while

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still offering close proximity to other neighboring larger cities. It's

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just fifteen miles south of the state's capital in Olympia, and,

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depending on traffic, about an hour and a half south

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of the Emerald City Seattle. I feel like I sound

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like somebody who was hired by the board of the city,

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like for their tourism website or something.

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But I'm mentioning Olympia for a specific reason.

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And I always feel like, if you grew up in Washington,

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maybe you don't feel this way, but I all always

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kind of do this, and I do it with Oregon too.

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I want to know, like, what's the proximity to Seattle,

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what's the proximity to Portland?

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You know?

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Like, yeah, I always kind of find myself comparing just

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to kind of get a vibe.

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I do that too. Also, when you say Emerald City,

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I'm like, Wizard of Us.

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Wizard of Us? Is the wizard there? Oh? There is

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a wizard there? Is it? Uh? What's this Jeff Goldbloom?

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Oh that'd be nice.

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I wonder if they're going to bring back his travel

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show Chris and I loved that.

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Yeah, me too, Ton, I.

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Know is where Thirty six year old Nancy Moyer was

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living in two thousand and nine, commuting to Lacey for

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her job as a financial analyst for the Washington State

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Department of Ecology. She'd grown up in Olympia, and after

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meeting and marrying Bill Moyer, had since become a devoted

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mother to their young daughters, Sam and Amanda. The couple

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had been separated for a couple of years. By two

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thousand and nine she was happily making a fresh start

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and moving forward as a single woman after a decade

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of marriage.

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So wow, that's a vibe.

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Yes, it is, And it's interesting because I feel like

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that's kind of another parallel to the last case as well.

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Lindsay's family had moved from Tennessee for a fresh start

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after a divorce.

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Oh's yeah, okay, yeah, I know.

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It's kind of something that gets mentioned in the very beginning,

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and I think like one of the saddest things that

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we talked about with that case was that it was

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like then after Lindsay went missing, they immediately kind of had.

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To move again, right the family. Yeah, damn.

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Though it's almost always sad when a marriage ends, the

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split was described is amicable, which honestly kind of a feat.

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I feel like the pair had.

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Come to an agreement regarding custody arrangements without involving courts.

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So that's always good because that's trumatic, I know, Yeah,

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it really is, and I feel like it's not necessarily

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the norm these days. You just don't see that as much.

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Bill took the girls on weekends while Nancy watched them

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during the week, and neither missed a pickup or drop off.

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They were both like really good parents from everything that

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I came across, and I don't know, it just seems

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like like what awesome people that they're like having this

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amicable divorce. They're like really putting the kids first. They're

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just you know, trying to move forward and like start

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their lives over and just put like their best foot forward. Yeah,

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that reliability would become one of the first signals that

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something was deeply wrong.

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I feel like suspenseful music needs to start. I know,

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I'm feeling more nervous about the situation.

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I know I'm feeling like I need at least one

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foot up in the chair. And now that I put

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one up, I feel like the other one just wants

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to join. So there we go. I'm crisscross apple sauce

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now so we can continue. But tonight, I know, for

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all its small town charm is also a place where,

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within a span of little more than a year, two

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women would meet violent ends. That proximity of geography, of

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timing of community is one of the most unsettling threads

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running through this case. We're is saying something because there's

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a lot of really unsettling shit about this case.

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If I'm being honest, I'm like, I don't know yet.

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I know.

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On Friday, March sixth, two thousand and nine, Nancy left

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the Department of Ecollegey office at approximately five point fifteen pm.

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Before heading home, she drove a coworker home, a detail

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that will become significant later in the investigation. And I

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say that because we actually, based on all of the

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research that I did, don't know who this coworker was.

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And there's a there's a piece of the investigation that

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it's like, but we need to know that we and

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I'm going to tell you why, just not yet, but

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we need to know. After dropping the coworker off, Nancy

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stopped at the to ninoh thrift Way at approximately six

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forty five and paid by check. So this is, I mean,

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two thousand and nine, still very much like the modern era.

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But that should tell you something because I don't know

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of almost any place on God's Green Earth that takes

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a check anymore.

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I can't even pay rent with a check.

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So the sighting at the thrift Way several years back,

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that was believed to be the last confirmed sighting of Nancy,

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it is no longer the girls were with Bill that weekend.

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Hours later, a to Nino police officer running radar had

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spotted Nancy unloading groceries from her car between nine and

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nine thirty pm. And this is now the last confirmed

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sighting of her alive.

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Wow, why did it take so long for that to

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come out?

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You know, I don't really know, I would assume because

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you know, when you're running radar, you're essentially like you're

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just trying to catch speeders. Yeah, and so it feels

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like kind of unrelated. But somehow, over the years of

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this investigation that came to light. So there are a

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number of podcasts that talked about this case, and we're

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going to actually talk about the major one, the main one,

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a little bit later, but there's a lot of information

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and kind of like content or coverage out there about

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the case that still shows that as being the last

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time she was seen. And it's because that's, you know,

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kind of a development that's happened over time. On Sunday,

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March eighth, Bill brought the girls back to Nancy's home

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on the seven hundred block of State Route five oh seven.

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The front door was a jar, the living room lights

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were on, the television was on a bedside lamp in

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Nancy's bedroom was still lit. On the coffee table sat

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two partially consumed glasses of wine. Both were fingerprinted by investigators.

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Only Nancy's prints were identified.

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She was double fist in it.

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I don't think so. The second glass has never been explained.

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That is so interesting.

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Like I wonder if she just had just like handed

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it or not handed it, but like set it down

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for whoever else was there, but they never picked it up.

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That or their prints aren't in the system.

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Oh okay, hmmm, it's hard to say because it's never

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been explained.

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They didn't say there was like unidentified other unidentified prints

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on it.

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I don't know that they've ever conclusively stated that there

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was like another identifiable second set of prints by like

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another individual that they just couldn't confirm who they belonged to.

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That piece of it is is a little bit murky,

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and so I think it's really interesting. Yeah, her purse

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was inside her identification wallet, car, keys, and cigarettes were

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all in the house.

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Her white Honda Civic del Soul was parked out front.

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There was no sign of a struggle, there was no

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sign of forced entry, and arguably most importantly, there was

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no Nancy where she I mean, I can't even imagine.

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I'm sure that's the question that you know her. This

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is you know a man that obviously clearly loved her

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at one point, he's there to drop off their kids

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and he's like, where the hell is Nancy.

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00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:34.200
Yeah, that would be so weird and like eerie to

236
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:37.279
walk it like you're just normal day dropping off the

237
00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:40.000
kids and then like, yeah, they're.

238
00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:40.360
Just not there.

239
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.600
I mean some of those details, like the fact that

240
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:46.919
her car's still there, Basically everything that a woman would

241
00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.320
normally have in their purse, all of those things are

242
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:53.919
still there. Her car's still there, like and like the

243
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.039
front door being a jar, that is yeah. I mean

244
00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.799
if I showed up to somebody's house and their door

245
00:15:00.919 --> 00:15:05.720
was a jar and they're not like walking in or out,

246
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.759
I oof, Yeah, I can't. No, it's not a good vibe.

247
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:15.159
Bill Moyer reported her missing at five pm on March eighth.

248
00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.120
By March twelfth, detectives have found no evidence of a

249
00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:23.639
break in or struggle, but classified the disappearance as suspicious

250
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:30.440
and eventually as a presumed homicide, what law enforcement would

251
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:36.480
typically call a no body homicide. Ten days after her disappearance,

252
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.480
dozens of searchers and ten cadaver dogs come to the area.

253
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.200
No trace of Nancy was found. Investigators moved quickly to

254
00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:52.000
establish a timeline and identify persons of interest. Bill Moyer

255
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:55.360
was cleared as a suspect early in the investigation. He

256
00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:58.039
passed a polygraph test, and the nature of the couple's

257
00:15:58.039 --> 00:16:02.360
separation just did point in his direction. It wasn't an

258
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:08.480
acrimonious divorce in progress, I mean, no custody dispute. It

259
00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:11.000
doesn't seem like there was any sort of you know,

260
00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.759
there's no history of violence, I mean really anything to

261
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.559
indicate that he would want Nancy dad. And if you

262
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:23.840
think about it, you probably if you were going to

263
00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:28.639
try to kill your you know, future ex wife and

264
00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.320
you know that she's you know, no longer with us,

265
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.960
you're not going to take your kids into her creepy

266
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:42.840
ass house where their mom is no longer Like that

267
00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.320
would be so traumatic. I just I would struggle to

268
00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:50.279
think that any loving father would do that to their child.

269
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:55.240
Now if you were, you know, some sort of a psycho, obviously,

270
00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:57.840
but it doesn't seem like that's the case.

271
00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:00.480
Yeah, they ruled them all. I'm sure that was like

272
00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:01.559
their first suspect.

273
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:06.079
Oh absolutely, yeah, I mean any romantic partner, whether it's

274
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:09.440
current or former. There they jump up to the top

275
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:14.200
of the list. The case attracted early attention, but few

276
00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:20.880
leads materialized. Retired police officer Fred Dodie took up Nancy's

277
00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:24.880
case in the years following her disappearance, telling media, I

278
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:29.680
think it's somebody she knew, but the case began going cold.

279
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.799
That makes sense because there was the like the two

280
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:37.000
wine glasses and then like the no entry things.

281
00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:42.799
So yeah, absolutely, yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. You're like, clearly,

282
00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.960
if it was somebody she didn't know, she's probably not

283
00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:51.960
inviting them in for wine, you know, the acquaintance. Yeah,

284
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:55.480
like somebody that she would have felt comfortable allowing into

285
00:17:55.519 --> 00:17:59.200
her home in all likelihood. Now, I mean it's totally possible.

286
00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:04.000
I would say probably unlikely, just given on what we

287
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.519
know about the timeline. But it's totally possible that she

288
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.000
had a glass of wine with someone at her home

289
00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:14.400
and that person has nothing to do with her disappearance.

290
00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:20.519
But again, I think that's unlikely given the timeline. It was,

291
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.279
you know, already late at night when she was unloading

292
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:28.599
the groceries. So in twenty ten, a separate and deeply

293
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:34.640
disturbing case emerged into Nino that would eventually intersect with Nancy's.

294
00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:40.119
Bernard Keith Howell the third, a twenty six year old

295
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:45.319
door to door meet salesman, was pulled over. I know,

296
00:18:46.160 --> 00:18:50.960
it gets so much worse. Was pulled over on August eighth,

297
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:57.640
twenty ten, near Parkside Elementary School. Uh oh, do you

298
00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:00.559
want to take a guess of what why he was

299
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:02.400
pulled over or what happened?

300
00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:05.720
Was he being weird around children?

301
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:07.400
You know what?

302
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.039
Given the location, that is a really good guess. But it's.

303
00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:17.000
It's not that I don't want to comment on whether

304
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:22.640
it's better or worse than that per se, but it is.

305
00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:28.920
It's very ichy, just in a different way. Vanda boone,

306
00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:33.279
sixty was in the passenger seat, her body wrapped in

307
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.359
a sleeping bag and plastic.

308
00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:40.000
Wait what uh huh? He got pulled over with the

309
00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:41.160
body in his car?

310
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.599
Sure did what?

311
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:45.079
So?

312
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:49.440
Remember I did say at the top that there would

313
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.200
be two women who would meet violent ends.

314
00:19:52.759 --> 00:19:53.519
Yeah you did.

315
00:19:54.319 --> 00:20:01.000
Yeah, so one of them is, unfortunately Vanda.

316
00:19:59.599 --> 00:20:02.680
Oh Howell murdered.

317
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:07.920
Vanda on the Yelm Tenanino Trail approximately seventeen months after

318
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.200
Nancy Moyer disappeared. The poor woman's throat was slit and

319
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.200
she suffered blunt force trauma to her head and neck

320
00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:21.599
that also contributed to her death. Howell initially told detectives

321
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:25.440
he had found her already dead and wanted to spare

322
00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.720
Vanda's family the cost of a funeral.

323
00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:30.359
That literally makes no sense.

324
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:35.839
Yes, so typical. Not only does he try to deflect

325
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:38.640
from his crime, but in a twisted way, also tries

326
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:42.599
to paint himself in a positive light with just a

327
00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.599
completely ridiculous story.

328
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.079
I mean, here's the thing.

329
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.799
In my mind, any person with a shred of empathy

330
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:52.160
would understand that.

331
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:53.559
I don't know.

332
00:20:53.799 --> 00:20:57.319
Most families want to understand what happened to their loved

333
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:02.559
one and grieve their loss. Yeah, with understandably, I would

334
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:08.279
argue financial concerns trailing as a much lesser consideration. I

335
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:13.200
don't think that anybody who has discovered oh no, my mother,

336
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:18.759
my sister, whoever has died, says, oh gosh, I wish

337
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:22.039
somebody would have just taken the body and never let

338
00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.319
us know what happened to them, so we wouldn't have

339
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:25.640
to pay for a funeral.

340
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.720
Seriously, and like, if you're that concerned, start a fucking

341
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.119
GoFundMe or something like.

342
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:36.559
Seriously, But I mean, okay, so let's pretend for a

343
00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:43.319
moment that we believe any facet of that ridiculousness saving

344
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:46.759
them money would actually rob them of that closure. So,

345
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:50.240
I don't know, it just seems unreasonable that even he

346
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:54.519
would have bought into that horrific logic, especially when you

347
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.880
consider that he later admitted to having sex with her

348
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.000
dead body. No, I hate you, I know, I know. Yeah,

349
00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:12.960
it's uh, there's very little. There's really nothing redeeming about

350
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:18.279
this aspect of the case that has become intertwined. It's

351
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.759
uh pretty horrendous.

352
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:23.319
Jesus Christ.

353
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:28.680
And this is how it all ties back. Howell had

354
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:32.359
lived less than a mile from Nancy Moyer's home. Though

355
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.319
Howell denied ever selling any of his wares to Nancy,

356
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.920
investigators found the same brand of meat Howell had been selling.

357
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:44.759
Door to door in Nancy's freezer. Mmmm hmm okay.

358
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:50.680
Also, her daughter identified Howell from a photo montage as

359
00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:53.440
the man who had once sold her mother meat.

360
00:22:54.359 --> 00:22:56.640
Okay, I don't.

361
00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.200
Know why that is the thing that you're fighting so

362
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:06.759
hard to deny admitted to having sex with a dead body,

363
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:12.400
but you won't admit that you sold meat to a

364
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.000
woman that has since gone missing. I guess maybe you

365
00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:17.880
don't want to give them anything to go on and

366
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.480
have them, you know, slap you with charges for that

367
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:27.079
presumed crime as well. But right, but you said this

368
00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:30.599
is a small town, right, Like ye? How many door

369
00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:32.839
door meat salesmen are there going to be in this

370
00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:36.200
one small town? Like, I mean, I have to imagine

371
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.319
even if there was a ridiculous number of them, say

372
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.359
a dozen, what come on?

373
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:48.440
Yeah? How many different brands? Forget, even if he's the

374
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.920
specific salesman, how many different brands of meat are sold

375
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:53.759
door to door?

376
00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:58.359
Yeah, I'm sorry, Bud, Like I think we know that,

377
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:02.400
Like I think we know you sold her this meat.

378
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:06.839
I don't think that feels like it's super open for debate.

379
00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:08.920
I don't know, I.

380
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.920
Don't know why, but this is also reminded me of

381
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:12.200
the movie I just told you to.

382
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:16.240
Watch Men, Just like why are men? Why it's happening?

383
00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:22.680
I mean, just ridiculousness, just absolute bullshit, Like do you

384
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.160
think that anyone is buying this.

385
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.519
And just picturing him going indoor? Just a man going

386
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.480
door to door, Hey want to buy my meat? Like

387
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:31.440
it just ough.

388
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:38.359
Oh, everything about this is just absolute maximum ick.

389
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:43.839
And actually there's a teeny bit more.

390
00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:48.559
Just to kind of put a bow on that portion

391
00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:50.839
of of the ick I got.

392
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.920
I don't even.

393
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:59.720
His defense attorney argued that Howell and admitted havevy user

394
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.960
of amphetamine, which I can't imagine is a detail that

395
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:09.440
surprises anyone, not really, no specifically, and the lead up

396
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:14.839
to the murder, had been experiencing drug induced psychosis, having

397
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.200
exhibited some common symptoms, including hearing voices and harboring a

398
00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:26.000
desire for extreme isolation. So you know, listen, he would

399
00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:29.720
never have had sex with a dead person that he

400
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:35.799
killed normally, but you know, the meth and maybe maybe

401
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:40.000
that's true. I kind of find myself not caring that

402
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:47.359
either way. But initially found incompetent to stand trial, Howell

403
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.160
was treated at Western State Hospital so his competency could

404
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.759
be restored prior to entering a guilty plea to first

405
00:25:55.759 --> 00:26:01.519
degree murder. He was sentenced twenty seven years for Boone's murder.

406
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:08.319
He has denied any involvement in Nancy's disappearance, and there's

407
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:12.279
no evidence linking him to Nancy's case that has ever

408
00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:17.640
been found that we know of, and he's never been charged, right, Yeah,

409
00:26:17.720 --> 00:26:18.279
but I.

410
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:23.319
Mean her, it's hardly a smoking gun. Yeah.

411
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.000
It says that probably he interacted with her at some point,

412
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:30.759
but there's no other connection, so he's he's never been

413
00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:37.200
charged in connection with Nancy's disappearance. For nearly a decade,

414
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.880
Nancy's case went cold. Samantha Moyer, her daughter grew up

415
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:46.920
in that absence. She didn't get to see me, graduate,

416
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.759
she didn't get to see my first dance, drive a car,

417
00:26:52.359 --> 00:26:52.920
any of that.

418
00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:55.960
It's just been hard since then.

419
00:26:58.119 --> 00:27:06.640
Yeah, and I will chill. Yeah, it's so awful. It's

420
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.640
like obviously like you know, yeah that that's hard, but

421
00:27:10.720 --> 00:27:13.920
like there's not really even any other words to really

422
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:16.920
describe it as a kid going through that, Like, man,

423
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.039
it's just fucking hard.

424
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:19.079
Yeah.

425
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:24.160
Intellectually, you know that if someone is missing like this

426
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:27.519
and the way that Nancy is, of course there are

427
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:32.200
gonna be these huge milestone moments in her children's life

428
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.079
that she's gonna miss. But to hear her child describe

429
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:44.720
that just hits Yeah, it hits different. The podcast Hide

430
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:50.400
and Seek brought renewed interest and national attention to the case. Reportedly,

431
00:27:50.599 --> 00:27:53.920
law enforcement has even credited the show as having help

432
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:55.960
to generate new leads.

433
00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.160
I know it's a dream.

434
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.519
Yeah, you know, I don't know how I feel about

435
00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:07.480
the host at this point in history.

436
00:28:07.599 --> 00:28:11.039
But you know that's a whole separate thing. I have

437
00:28:11.039 --> 00:28:11.519
no idea.

438
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:17.240
So yeah, yeah, so just happy, just happy. Yeah, We're

439
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:20.440
going to choose in this moment for the purposes of

440
00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:23.759
telling this case, to separate the art from the artist.

441
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:25.119
Okay.

442
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:30.160
Season one was launched in March twenty nineteen, coinciding with

443
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:34.680
the ten year anniversary of Nancy's disappearance. And you know

444
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:40.720
how we feel about synchronicities. Yeah, and then something else happened,

445
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.200
and it didn't quite hit me until I'm looking at

446
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:45.960
the date again.

447
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:49.599
Now I'm really sorry, Cassie.

448
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:55.000
Then, on July ninth, twenty nineteen, more than ten years

449
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:59.839
after Nancy disappeared, fifty three year old Eric Lee Roberts

450
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.119
called nine to one one from his home, and I

451
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.119
think there is sort of a thing in the true

452
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:09.359
crime community where we're like three names.

453
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:10.880
It's one too many.

454
00:29:11.559 --> 00:29:12.000
M hmm.

455
00:29:12.119 --> 00:29:15.880
If they're using all three, that's some serial killer shit,

456
00:29:16.559 --> 00:29:17.160
it sure is.

457
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.559
That's all I'm saying red flag. It is red flag exactly. Yeah,

458
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:26.119
where's the red flag guy when I need him? He

459
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.440
told the dispatcher he wanted to confess to a murder.

460
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:34.599
When asked which murder, he said he had killed Nancy

461
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.319
Moyer ten years ago.

462
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:37.519
What.

463
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:44.400
Yeah, he said he had felt tired of holding it inside.

464
00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:48.599
Roberts told the dispatcher his full name, his date of birth,

465
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:53.079
and his address, which is an unusual level of self

466
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:56.279
identification for a nine to one one call. And it

467
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:58.920
just feels very deliberate, kind of.

468
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:04.759
A little bit. It's another kind of eerie choice.

469
00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:07.880
Yeah, it makes me, well, I don't know, It just

470
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.160
like makes me wonder was it actually him or was

471
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.599
it like someone else pretending?

472
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:17.440
Maybe him bakes the question. It begs a lot of questions,

473
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:22.359
I would argue. The confession by Roberts came in July

474
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:27.079
twenty nineteen, mid season, and while season one was still

475
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:35.200
airing of the podcast Wow, the host James Bassinger Bassinger

476
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:39.279
I don't know stays. A law enforcement source told him

477
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:44.559
that Roberts specifically mentioned the podcast when he was questioned

478
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:49.359
about his confession. So he was listening to the podcast

479
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.960
about Nancy Moyer and it dug its way into his

480
00:30:54.119 --> 00:30:58.640
brain and pushed him to this confession.

481
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:02.839
Allegedly, it's giving false confession vibes for sure.

482
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:08.480
I don't know it kind of is giving yeah, false

483
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.400
confession or just I don't know, it's giving hoax.

484
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:14.279
Yeah.

485
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.039
Later in October of that same year, Nancy's case was

486
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:24.519
also selected for Crowdsolves, a true crime convention held in Seattle.

487
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:30.000
So twenty nineteen is another really big year for her case,

488
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:35.799
ten years after she disappeared. Now, let's talk about this guy,

489
00:31:36.960 --> 00:31:41.960
I guess if we have to. Roberts had worked with

490
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.799
her at the Washington State Department of Ecology for years

491
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.839
and had previously lived just down the road from her home.

492
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:55.920
Nancy had reportedly been dating Roberts's nephew at the time

493
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:59.920
of her disappearance. Oh, though Roberts denied having a really

494
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:03.279
relationship with Nancy or that she had visited his home

495
00:32:03.799 --> 00:32:05.839
in the early days of the investigation.

496
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:14.440
Okay, so lie, so lie, It sounds like potentially lie

497
00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:14.839
a lot.

498
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.680
He also had a documented history of domestic violence, including

499
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.720
an outstanding warrant for fourth degree domestic violence at the

500
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:30.119
time of his arrests. A former girlfriend described a jeckle

501
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:36.200
and hide personality, and said he became violent when he drank,

502
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:39.880
sometimes choking her during sex to the point where she

503
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:43.640
had to struggle, scratching and clawing at him to get

504
00:32:43.720 --> 00:32:44.720
him to stop.

505
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:49.680
God, that's horrific. It's really horrendous.

506
00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:54.759
At that point, I'm thinking to myself, like whether or

507
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:59.079
not he did anything to hurt Nancy, he's clearly a monster.

508
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:00.880
Yeah.

509
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:06.119
That same former girlfriend also reportedly told investigators that after

510
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:11.799
Nancy's disappearance, Roberts poured a large concrete pad in the

511
00:33:11.839 --> 00:33:15.079
rear of his property with plans to either build a

512
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:18.559
fort for his son or a man cave for himself.

513
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.759
She thought that was a bit odd because no utilities

514
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:28.200
ran to that area of the property. A separate informant

515
00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:33.400
confirmed the concrete structure and noted that after it was poured,

516
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:38.200
the gatherings and camping that used to happen on Robert's

517
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:44.920
land stopped entirely. Hmm. So it was like, I don't know,

518
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:48.400
speculate wildly, but I don't know if I had a

519
00:33:48.440 --> 00:33:51.920
body that I had hidden on my property, even if

520
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:54.480
it was under a cement pad.

521
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.359
I might not want people poking around.

522
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:01.440
Just the thought, Yeah, No, definitely not Like I hate

523
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:02.519
a concrete slab.

524
00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:04.720
It's not my favorite. It's not great.

525
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:08.559
Just a random, a random one, you know, like it's yeah,

526
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.039
it feels never good.

527
00:34:10.519 --> 00:34:14.480
It takes me back to Ashley and Miranda.

528
00:34:15.280 --> 00:34:17.800
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

529
00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:21.519
She also said Roberts had admitted to her that he

530
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:27.159
had a sexual relationship with Nancy, something that again we

531
00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:31.480
already know he denied to police, and that when her

532
00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:36.719
mother asked about Nancy's disappearance, Roberts became upset and said,

533
00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:41.559
what are you the fucking police?

534
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:45.360
I mean no, but like kind of important because her

535
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:46.960
daughter is missing, Like.

536
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:52.480
Yeah, just have some follow up questions for you if

537
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:53.320
that's cool.

538
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:54.559
Wow.

539
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:59.760
Roberts had denied everything from the beginning. When detectives first

540
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:02.760
and reviewed him in May two thousand and nine, just

541
00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:06.199
weeks after Nancy disappeared, he told them he and Nancy

542
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.960
were friendly at work, but she had never been to

543
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:13.880
his home. When detective Mickey Hamilton arrived to his home

544
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.519
on Sheldon Lane and interviewed Roberts in a squad car,

545
00:35:18.039 --> 00:35:23.800
he was visibly distressed, crying, clenching and unclenching his fists,

546
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:28.519
wringing his hands. So this is we're fast forwarding to

547
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:31.599
twenty nineteen. This is right after the nine to one

548
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.519
one call. This conversation was recorded in part and presented

549
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:43.360
contradictory statements about the events surrounding Nancy's death. The thing

550
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:47.119
about that that kind of puts me off is sometimes

551
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:53.239
a killer will present conflicting stories for so many different reasons,

552
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:58.559
and then sometimes somebody who's just maybe a little unhinged

553
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:04.480
and in toxic will present differing accounts of events.

554
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:06.159
I don't know what to think.

555
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:08.639
Right, Well, if you're like Jekyl and hiding, like you

556
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.039
may remember.

557
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:14.559
Yeah, and maybe you don't remember because you don't know

558
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:17.079
what happened, like you had nothing to do with it.

559
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.920
I really don't know which way to go on this one.

560
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:25.400
I feel like it looks really damning, but he's not

561
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:29.280
the only one where it's like, you know, it looks damning.

562
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:33.199
It doesn't look good, But I don't really have anything

563
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:35.320
that's conclusive, if that makes sense.

564
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.519
Yeah.

565
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.960
His initial account was that he had simply reacted when

566
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:45.039
Nancy attacked him. The alleged attack, he said, possibly having

567
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:49.360
occurred near the Shehelis River, So you know that she

568
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:53.280
attacked you, But the fact that it possibly having occurred

569
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:56.639
near the Shahelis River. Just like, how much of this

570
00:36:56.800 --> 00:37:00.519
foggy recollection are we supposed to actually give any cree to?

571
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:05.039
It was so weird. When asked why he didn't seek

572
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:08.960
help after she went unresponsive, he said he had freaked

573
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:12.920
out and didn't think he had working phones at the time.

574
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:15.920
Okay, but eventually you get to a place where your

575
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:17.039
phone does work.

576
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:18.519
Right, exactly.

577
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:20.920
That was exactly the same thought that I had. I

578
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:23.199
was like, but surely at some.

579
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:28.440
Point in between then and now you had an opportunity. Yeah.

580
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:35.239
And you've been interviewed obviously as one of her coworkers. Yeah,

581
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:39.880
I just I don't I obviously the fact that they

582
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.039
work together. That is the other piece, because we know

583
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:47.320
that she dropped off a coworker the night of her disappearance. Yeah,

584
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.039
it's unclear if he was the co worker, but if

585
00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:54.360
he was, that kind of adds another element to this.

586
00:37:54.599 --> 00:37:59.519
It's another layer. After providing this initial account, he asked

587
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:05.599
to techs to stop recording before shifting his demeanor becoming

588
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:11.960
more relaxed, eventually turning to Detective Hamilton, and then his

589
00:38:12.119 --> 00:38:13.280
story changed.

590
00:38:14.480 --> 00:38:16.760
He told the detective that he had.

591
00:38:16.679 --> 00:38:20.119
Killed Nancy at his house, that they had been having

592
00:38:20.400 --> 00:38:25.280
rough sex and that he had accidentally strangled her with

593
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:25.880
a scarf.

594
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:31.039
Oh my god, and looks like a completely different scenario.

595
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:34.119
Mm hmmm, what is happening?

596
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:37.840
He said he had been drunk or high at the time.

597
00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:40.800
I mean, two things can be true. You could have

598
00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:45.000
been both. But are you unsure? I just don't understand,

599
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:50.920
Like what. When asked where they could find Nancy's body,

600
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:53.480
Roberts asked if they wanted.

601
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:56.800
To take a walk. No, but yes.

602
00:38:57.519 --> 00:39:00.559
He led detectives to the back of his proper, where

603
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:05.280
a concrete fire pit was located. He stood staring at

604
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.400
it without speaking. When asked about it directly, he said,

605
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:13.119
I don't really want to incriminate myself any further, but

606
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.199
if I was going to get rid of a body

607
00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:18.679
on my property, it would be right there, and pointed

608
00:39:18.719 --> 00:39:21.920
to the fire pit. Like can you just fucking say it?

609
00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:25.920
You got damn pussy like or you ball sack? You know, Like, yeah,

610
00:39:26.840 --> 00:39:28.760
just say it, you're already saying it.

611
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.320
Just say it. Just speak plainly. I don't know.

612
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:35.639
I'm not sure if this is some sort of a

613
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:39.320
dissociative episode. I don't I really don't know. What to

614
00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:44.360
make of it, and it's super frustrating. Roberts also told

615
00:39:44.400 --> 00:39:47.840
detectives he did not believe Nancy's body would ever be found,

616
00:39:48.559 --> 00:39:52.840
but indicated they should search his basement and the area

617
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:56.679
around the fire pit. He said he had burned the scarf,

618
00:39:57.400 --> 00:39:59.920
but he also said that he had kept her close.

619
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:05.960
The Thurston County Sheriff's office and the FBI searched Robert's

620
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:11.320
property for two days. They collected evidence sent for forensic testing,

621
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:13.440
but they did not find Nancy.

622
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:15.280
What the fuck.

623
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:21.320
The following day, Roberts recanded, telling investigators he wasn't sure

624
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:24.800
why he'd said that he killed Nancy Moyer. Though he

625
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.320
was arrested on suspicion of second degree murder and held

626
00:40:28.360 --> 00:40:33.079
on one point five million dollars bail, prosecutors reduced bail

627
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:37.159
within days and announced they would not file murder charges

628
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:42.639
until the investigation was complete. Roberts was briefly held on

629
00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:47.480
a federal firearms charge after seventeen guns were found in

630
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.199
his residence during the search.

631
00:40:50.119 --> 00:40:53.800
That seems excessive, seems like a I don't know.

632
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:56.400
That might be it's a little bit of an arsenal,

633
00:40:56.840 --> 00:41:01.519
might be unnecessary, but the charge was later dismissed when

634
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:04.480
the weapon in question was found not to meet the

635
00:41:04.559 --> 00:41:07.440
legal definition of an illegal firearm.

636
00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:12.840
I don't know what that means, and I hate it.

637
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:16.800
Can we arrest him for just wasting everyone's time? Maybe too,

638
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:18.840
That would be fantastic.

639
00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:23.519
He was then briefly rearrested on a pre existing fourth

640
00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:28.840
degree domestic violence warrant from Snahomish County before that charge

641
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:29.840
was also dropped.

642
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.880
I hate this, I really hate it.

643
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.400
So we're just charging him with things and hoping that

644
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:39.679
something is gonna stick. And I get that. Sometimes that's

645
00:41:39.840 --> 00:41:42.559
just that, it's just the way we gotta go. You know,

646
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:46.840
we got al capone for tax evasion and racketeering, right,

647
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:48.679
I get it.

648
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.519
But something has to happen to this guy, like something,

649
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:55.679
get him for something something.

650
00:41:56.639 --> 00:42:00.280
Clearly, even if he didn't murder Nancy, he is not

651
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:05.559
an awesome dude. On July thirty first, twenty nineteen, Eric

652
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:09.920
Lee Roberts was released from custody. No murder charges have

653
00:42:10.000 --> 00:42:13.360
ever been filed against him. He has never been charged

654
00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:17.320
in connection with Nancy Moyer's disappearance. As of the most

655
00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.840
recent verified reporting, he remains free and the investigation remains open.

656
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:29.360
When Season four of Hide and Seek premiered in October

657
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:33.039
of twenty twenty four, it focused primarily on the March

658
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:38.760
twenty twenty three disappearance of Shane Barton. However, returning to

659
00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:44.599
Thurston County the location of both disappearances allowed for follow

660
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:48.760
up on Nancy's case as well, But where the case

661
00:42:48.800 --> 00:42:56.480
stands nobody, no charges, a family still waiting, though Roberts

662
00:42:56.559 --> 00:43:03.199
was held on probable cause no charges wherever formally filed

663
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:08.679
damn not for murder. All these years, her loved ones

664
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:12.639
have tried to continue on in their forever fractured lives,

665
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:18.639
still hoping for answers and perhaps one day justice. Nancy's

666
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:22.719
case is now being actively investigated by the Thurston County

667
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:28.960
Sheriff's Office dedicated cold case unit, established in June twenty

668
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:29.519
twenty four.

669
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.719
Oh wow, just like two years ago.

670
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:36.880
Yeah, and it's I think that's another kind of parallel

671
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.920
to the Lindsay baumb case too, where it's like, you know,

672
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:45.679
a recently established cold case unit. I'm into those. Help,

673
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:52.519
I know, hopeful I dig it Nancy's physical description for reference.

674
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:57.239
She was five feet tall, approximately one hundred and fifteen

675
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.599
to one hundred and twenty pounds. She had dark brown

676
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:04.960
hair and brown eyes. She had ear and naval piercings,

677
00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:09.440
a total of seven tattoos, including hibiscus flowers on her

678
00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:14.800
left hip and two cherries with the initials A. N

679
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:20.559
S on her right foot for her daughters, I really

680
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:26.079
like her, as well as the scar on her right knee.

681
00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:30.039
Anyone with information is asked to contact the Thurston County

682
00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:34.920
Sheriff's Office at three six zero seven eight six five

683
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.519
five zero zero. There is currently a five thousand dollars

684
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:43.559
reward for information in the case, and we're going to

685
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:48.159
put information about where you can reach out with tips

686
00:44:48.199 --> 00:44:51.320
in the show notes. Of course, there's an email address

687
00:44:51.360 --> 00:44:54.840
that you can reach out to the cold case unit

688
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:58.880
if you don't want to call. I hate getting on

689
00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:04.400
the phone for any reason. It's just so heartbreaking because

690
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:07.679
it seems like as we've talked about, like the people

691
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:12.280
that were considered persons of interest, you know, Howl the

692
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:18.199
third and Roberts, both of them, it just you know,

693
00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:22.719
it starts to as it starts to unravel.

694
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.000
We are like it looks it looks good.

695
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:28.679
They look good for it, right, you know, Proximity is

696
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:32.840
a really it's really compelling. I would say Roberts is obviously,

697
00:45:33.079 --> 00:45:36.360
between the two of them, the more compelling person of interest.

698
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.880
And again I just, you know, I want to say, obviously,

699
00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:42.960
neither of them has ever been charged in connection with

700
00:45:43.119 --> 00:45:48.480
the case, but both of those, both of these mayon

701
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:54.599
they definitely, you know, it's throwing up a really a.

702
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:59.559
A blaring red flag. It's awful.

703
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:06.239
And I feel like, for whatever reason, Thurston County seems

704
00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:11.679
like for you know, it seems like overall it you know,

705
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:17.079
has some small towns, it's feels like it's relatively rural

706
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:22.079
in a lot of that area. Like, how are we

707
00:46:22.159 --> 00:46:27.039
having so many people disappearing? And in a span of

708
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.719
you know, roughly eighteen months, the Vanda Boone case and

709
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:36.559
Nancy's disappearance and then spoiler alert, you know, the other

710
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:40.039
case that they're talking about on season four of Hide

711
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:45.320
and Seek, And I actually I have another case that

712
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:47.519
I think I'm looking at in Thurston.

713
00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:48.320
County right now.

714
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:53.519
What in the actual fuck is going on in I mean,

715
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:56.480
Pierce County is a big one too, for the state

716
00:46:56.519 --> 00:46:59.400
of Washington, but what the actual fuck is happening in

717
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:03.440
Thurston County based on the population, Like y'all.

718
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:10.920
What is going on. It is a little concerning, like weird.

719
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:14.079
Stuff is going on too, Like this isn't this isn't

720
00:47:14.119 --> 00:47:16.320
normal things that we usually hear about.

721
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:20.960
No, I feel like it's a lot of weird stuff.

722
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:27.000
I feel like we need to do some taro and

723
00:47:27.159 --> 00:47:31.159
like just get this weirdness out of our system.

724
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:33.000
Yeah.

725
00:47:33.400 --> 00:47:38.360
I've got the altar all set up and I did

726
00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:40.719
a little pre shuffle and then I've had the cards

727
00:47:40.920 --> 00:47:44.960
hanging out on the selenite plate here for the last

728
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:48.760
couple of hours. So I feel like we're doing everything

729
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:52.400
we can to put the right vibes into this.

730
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:56.880
Yeah, sending vibes. Can we not pull a card about

731
00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:01.480
the guy who sexually assaults dead people? Dead people? That

732
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:07.079
would be great, poor innocent women who have passed on

733
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:08.840
who don't need to be violated.

734
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:15.599
Further seriously, Okay, I'm gonna fan the deck out. Let

735
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:20.119
me know what region of the deck you feel like

736
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:23.639
is calling to you. I've got it spread out in

737
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:26.320
front of my keyboard. So if a number or a

738
00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:34.159
letter X oh interesting, okay, oh wow, Okay, So I'm

739
00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:37.559
keeping an eye on the spot kind of where I

740
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:40.239
pulled this from, just in case, because I kind of

741
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:42.760
was torn between two cards.

742
00:48:43.280 --> 00:48:47.119
Oh so just to be safe, but and I don't

743
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:48.760
know how well you're gonna be able to see this.

744
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.559
On Oh okay, it's the one with the the oyster.

745
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.719
Yeah. Nine of Cups.

746
00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:58.599
Yeah, oh look at you. Okay, I did a good

747
00:48:58.679 --> 00:49:05.039
job zooming get into you did. But we pulled it

748
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:08.639
in the reverse, which makes sense because cups is such

749
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:12.480
a positive suit that I feel like it must be

750
00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:18.639
sometimes I don't know, yeah, that's true, always always, And

751
00:49:18.679 --> 00:49:23.679
there's elements, like you know, we pull from from so

752
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:24.920
many random.

753
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.360
Like aspects of a card. So okay, So nine of

754
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:33.079
Cups are keywords are oh this actually this first one

755
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:35.559
kind of makes me want to cry a little bit.

756
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:38.920
Wishes come true.

757
00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:42.480
Oh and I feel like there are probably a lot

758
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:44.679
of people that if they had one wish it would

759
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:46.880
be that this case would be solved.

760
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:48.400
Yeah.

761
00:49:48.559 --> 00:49:52.599
I know, like at least two people who really need

762
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:53.280
that and want that.

763
00:49:54.119 --> 00:49:54.760
Yeah.

764
00:49:55.320 --> 00:50:02.920
Good luck, Happiness, abundance, and generosity. Often called the wish card,

765
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:06.119
the nine of Cups is one of the most fortunate

766
00:50:06.199 --> 00:50:10.280
of all cards and boats well in any reading. Some

767
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:13.880
decks show a wealthy person, perhaps a tavern owner or

768
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:19.599
innkeeper sharing his or her largest with others filling their cups.

769
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.360
The two wine glasses.

770
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:26.480
Oh yeah, oh it is interesting, we got cups.

771
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:31.679
Yeah that okay, that makes so much sense. Reversed the

772
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:37.480
nine of cups can indicate indulgence, excess, and or smugness

773
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:42.320
about your riches. This card may also mean your errors

774
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:47.039
are revealed, especially if your gains were ill gotten.

775
00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:47.960
Ooooh.

776
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:53.360
In some cases, it shows you turning away from the

777
00:50:53.400 --> 00:50:58.239
material world to follow a spiritual path. In a reading

778
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:02.199
about money, the reverse nine may show you're spending more

779
00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:05.159
than you make, or that you're pouring too much money

780
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:09.280
into a venture. Or it may reveal errors and judgment

781
00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:11.159
related to a financial matter.

782
00:51:12.239 --> 00:51:15.920
Uh okay, So this whole time, it was fucking reminding

783
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.039
me about the guy who.

784
00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:19.599
I didn't want to pull the card about, who said

785
00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:21.000
that he took the.

786
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:25.280
Deceased woman because he didn't want the family to pay

787
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:26.039
for the funeral.

788
00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:30.480
Oh my god, I'm so glad that you remember that.

789
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:34.360
I wasn't making that connection at all at all.

790
00:51:35.239 --> 00:51:35.360
Ugh.

791
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:40.079
If the reading is about your job, this card may

792
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:44.320
mean you're playing when you should be working. Perhaps you

793
00:51:44.400 --> 00:51:47.639
think you can rest on your laurels, but that's a mistake.

794
00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:53.320
Sometimes it suggests you've gained through questionable means or by

795
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:58.280
allying yourself with unscrupulous people. It's so interesting that, like

796
00:51:58.320 --> 00:52:02.280
the finance piece of this is so prevalent, and she

797
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:08.360
was literally working as a financial analyst in Yeah. Yeah,

798
00:52:08.639 --> 00:52:12.599
So I just wonder if you know, she's like aligned

799
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:16.840
herself with you know, this person that she works with,

800
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:20.320
and that is it feels like maybe it's pointing in

801
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:20.960
that direction.

802
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:23.360
I don't want to overstate that.

803
00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:25.639
But yeah, I mean, obviously we don't know. It's just

804
00:52:25.760 --> 00:52:26.280
terar open.

805
00:52:26.360 --> 00:52:27.159
Yeah.

806
00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:32.880
In a reading about love, the reverse nine can indicate frivolousness, promiscuity,

807
00:52:33.079 --> 00:52:38.159
or insensitivity in relationships. In some cases, it warns and

808
00:52:38.320 --> 00:52:40.320
indiscretion may come to light.

809
00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:50.199
There's a few indiscretions happening with these national sexual endeavors.

810
00:52:48.400 --> 00:52:52.760
To say the least. There is an extra excerpt and

811
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:57.920
it's really short. But nature is held together by the

812
00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:04.800
energy of love. I think we're both just like almost

813
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:08.000
speechless because I feel like, I don't know, I want

814
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:13.679
to believe that, like the nature of the natural world,

815
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:18.199
the of the universe is that you know, love and

816
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:21.519
people like caring about this case will be enough to

817
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:24.679
at some point draw it to a conclusion.

818
00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:29.960
Yeah. Oh man, Now I'm curious about the other card

819
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:34.920
you were torn in grabbing. I'll pull it out.

820
00:53:35.880 --> 00:53:37.000
It's your card.

821
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:42.559
Oh the fool. There's some fools up in this story

822
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:43.039
as well.

823
00:53:45.519 --> 00:53:48.360
We drew it up right, So I'll read this one.

824
00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:52.440
I don't I feel like I'm not. I'm not necessarily

825
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:54.519
as drawn to this. That's why we ended up with

826
00:53:54.599 --> 00:53:58.440
the other card. Okay, let's see I was raly.

827
00:53:59.119 --> 00:54:08.199
Yeah, well that may make sense. Keywords are innocence, beginnings, trust, hope, opportunity.

828
00:54:09.199 --> 00:54:11.679
I was gonna say, it reminds me, just from what

829
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:15.639
I know of the card, like maybe she blindly trusted

830
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:17.599
someone she shouldn't have.

831
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:21.320
You know, Oh god, that's exactly what I'm getting right now,

832
00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:24.559
because I mean, I think we know broad strokes what

833
00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:29.440
this card kind of means, but the interpretation. When the

834
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.599
fool appears in a reading, it usually means you're about

835
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:38.320
to embark on a new way of life, starting fresh. Yeah,

836
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:42.400
you're open to new experiences and to discovering what lies

837
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.480
around the bend. Even if you're not sure about the

838
00:54:45.480 --> 00:54:48.400
path you've chosen, you have faith that everything will turn

839
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:51.960
out well. You probably feel out of sync with the

840
00:54:51.960 --> 00:54:54.559
rest of the world, but in a good way. You

841
00:54:54.639 --> 00:54:57.159
hear the beat of a different drummer and you're ready

842
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:00.159
to march to it. In a reading about money, the

843
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:04.079
full urges caution. You may be too trusting or you

844
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.400
may be naive when it comes to handling financial matters.

845
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:12.320
This card can also represent the stage the first stage

846
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:18.000
of a business or investment. Examine details carefully, pay attention

847
00:55:18.199 --> 00:55:22.239
to your intuition, not only logic. If the reading is

848
00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:25.280
about your work, the fool can indicate starting a new job,

849
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:29.320
project or business venture, beginning a course of study, or

850
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:33.639
going on a business trip. Honestly, it's giving very like

851
00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:37.639
obviously it's you know, all about kind of regeneration and

852
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:43.960
like it's very fresh, fresh start energy. Yeah, you're looking

853
00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:48.000
forward to this adventure or new direction and its possibilities.

854
00:55:48.679 --> 00:55:51.880
Embrace the opportunity with an open mind. You have a

855
00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:52.599
lot to learn.

856
00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:55.920
And I feel like it's her energy for sure, Like

857
00:55:56.079 --> 00:55:59.760
that's what she, yeah, was wanting, That's what she had

858
00:55:59.800 --> 00:56:01.519
and someone just took it from her.

859
00:56:02.320 --> 00:56:06.360
That's that's kind of the vibe that I'm feeling as well.

860
00:56:07.480 --> 00:56:10.440
In a reading about love. This card often means beginning

861
00:56:10.480 --> 00:56:13.639
a romance or moving into a new stage in an

862
00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:19.360
existing partnership. A new relationship may feel faded, as if

863
00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:23.400
you've met your soulmate. Enjoy this period of joy, openness,

864
00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:24.400
and excitement.

865
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:29.440
I'm getting the like love bomb feeling like a little

866
00:56:29.480 --> 00:56:31.320
love bombing her right.

867
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:37.559
Maybe there's an extra excerpt And it's also uh eloquent

868
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:41.599
in its brevity, shall we say love it? The quest

869
00:56:41.679 --> 00:56:47.239
for meaning always takes us into the unknown. Wow, which

870
00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:50.000
is very eerie in life.

871
00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:54.760
Is yeah, because they like that's the whole thing. Is

872
00:56:54.760 --> 00:56:58.159
like they're trying to find what happened and like why

873
00:56:58.280 --> 00:57:01.440
and the meaning of it, but it's just unknown.

874
00:57:02.880 --> 00:57:07.559
It's really interesting because the fool in reverse is just

875
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:14.000
to like super quickly skim. Some of the main points

876
00:57:14.039 --> 00:57:20.199
are an impulsive action could lead to a fall. Don't

877
00:57:20.199 --> 00:57:24.440
do this hastily. Think before you act, however, for you

878
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:29.920
might regret. And this card can also warn you to

879
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:33.559
look more closely at a partner or relationship. Things may

880
00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:38.760
not be what you think. It's very like it's cautionary vibes. Yeah,

881
00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:41.199
and it's really interesting.

882
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:44.760
Well, that was some insight into a little a couple

883
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:48.079
of little things that wasn't you know, like super right

884
00:57:48.199 --> 00:57:50.280
on like they are sometimes, But I feel like there

885
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:51.800
were definitely elements that fit.

886
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:53.559
Yeah.

887
00:57:53.639 --> 00:57:57.360
I don't feel like there was necessarily like the lightning

888
00:57:57.519 --> 00:58:03.239
rod that sometimes we feel with other cases, but it

889
00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:05.880
did feel like there were parts of that that really

890
00:58:06.239 --> 00:58:07.880
like clicked and made sense.

891
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:13.400
Yeah, unless we're missing totally like missing something new creepy.

892
00:58:13.400 --> 00:58:15.800
People can comment on the things and tell us what

893
00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:20.159
you think. Yeah, absolutely, And as always, if you want

894
00:58:20.199 --> 00:58:22.039
to see the cards, you can go to our Instagram

895
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:24.800
and we post pictures of them that we do.

896
00:58:26.400 --> 00:58:27.440
Because they're very beautiful.

897
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.440
They're from the PNW deck She' party.

898
00:58:31.159 --> 00:58:32.400
Should we do our outro?

899
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:33.760
Are you?

900
00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:35.199
Yeah? A bye byes?

901
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:36.239
Are bye bye?

902
00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:38.400
Yeah.

903
00:58:38.559 --> 00:58:40.559
It's just I don't know for some reason, this one,

904
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:43.320
Like I know, we talked about unsolved ones all the time,

905
00:58:43.360 --> 00:58:45.559
but this one's like leaving me with just such a

906
00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:51.599
like damn, like fuck, come on, especially with the false

907
00:58:51.880 --> 00:58:52.920
like confession guy.

908
00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:56.320
Yes, it feels like it's so close and I feel like,

909
00:58:56.599 --> 00:58:59.679
you know, Lindsey Baum, the last one that we talked

910
00:58:59.679 --> 00:59:02.159
about that was unsolved, and I don't like to do

911
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:06.599
a bunch of unsolved stacked on top of each other typically,

912
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:09.719
but like I do feel like part of me has

913
00:59:09.719 --> 00:59:12.800
been kind of drawn to them recently, just because it

914
00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:16.599
feels like it's meaningful.

915
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:17.480
To talk about them.

916
00:59:17.559 --> 00:59:21.199
And I think every case there's like meaning that we

917
00:59:21.239 --> 00:59:26.280
can bring to, you know, the conversation around these cases.

918
00:59:26.519 --> 00:59:30.760
But I feel like unsolved there's something that you know,

919
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:34.880
I kind of go through phases where I want to

920
00:59:34.960 --> 00:59:36.599
talk about unsolved.

921
00:59:36.760 --> 00:59:36.960
You know.

922
00:59:37.239 --> 00:59:40.320
I don't feel like I struggle with the illusion that

923
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:43.519
like we're going to solve the case necessarily, but I

924
00:59:43.599 --> 00:59:47.639
just feel like it's all part of being a part

925
00:59:47.719 --> 00:59:53.320
of the conversation that like keeps these cases in people's

926
00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:57.599
minds and like keeps people talking about them and trying to.

927
00:59:57.760 --> 01:00:01.039
You just never know, like you really never know who's listening,

928
01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:04.000
or what could come up, or what could spark a memory,

929
01:00:04.079 --> 01:00:07.239
Like something dumb we say could like spark someone's memory,

930
01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:08.119
or I.

931
01:00:08.079 --> 01:00:12.760
Don't know, no, I mean truly, and that is honestly,

932
01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:17.519
like you know, I said, and I kind of only

933
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:20.679
half jokingly earlier, but like, you know, oh, that's the

934
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:27.639
dream about you know, our podcast, Like somehow even tangentially

935
01:00:27.800 --> 01:00:30.440
like stirring up a lead. But it's like ultimately like

936
01:00:31.400 --> 01:00:33.920
that is kind of like you do want to think

937
01:00:33.960 --> 01:00:37.320
that you're making a difference by talking about these stories.

938
01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:39.960
I don't know that I feel like I need to

939
01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:46.519
like get credit for it, like in that way. I mean,

940
01:00:46.519 --> 01:00:49.599
it would certainly be like an affirmation and it would

941
01:00:49.639 --> 01:00:53.760
make you feel like good, okay, like everything that we

942
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:55.719
have done, all the work that we put into it,

943
01:00:55.760 --> 01:01:02.039
like it feels like worthwhile in this really meaningful way,

944
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:08.119
like that has like shaped something important. But I think

945
01:01:08.840 --> 01:01:12.760
I'm happy just knowing that, Like the conversation, you know,

946
01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:15.159
it's kind of one of those things that's like it's it's.

947
01:01:15.039 --> 01:01:19.039
Not the destination, it's the journey. It's kind of similar

948
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:19.760
to that that's.

949
01:01:19.639 --> 01:01:22.840
Like very fool card that is so cool card, Like

950
01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:26.280
that is like the epitome of the Forlord, Like it's

951
01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:28.000
the destination or it's the journey.

952
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:28.960
Yeah, the destination.

953
01:01:29.679 --> 01:01:33.360
Yeah, I'm like I'm happy knowing just that, Like you know,

954
01:01:33.559 --> 01:01:36.679
if there if there's anyone that's listening, you know, to

955
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:39.719
the episode that you know we're that we're doing, and

956
01:01:39.760 --> 01:01:42.920
whether it's this case or another unsolved that we've talked about,

957
01:01:43.000 --> 01:01:45.679
Like part of me is just happy knowing if there

958
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:50.519
are people that haven't heard the case before that are

959
01:01:50.639 --> 01:01:53.880
hearing it and they are, you know, thinking about it,

960
01:01:53.960 --> 01:01:57.719
and even if they're not local to the area, and

961
01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:00.440
you know, maybe they don't think in a million years

962
01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:02.599
that they're ever gonna know anything about the case.

963
01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.159
Like you just don't know. It's like a butterfly flaps its.

964
01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.079
Wings and like maybe you know maybe a year from

965
01:02:10.159 --> 01:02:13.559
now you're talking to somebody and like you just don't know.

966
01:02:14.239 --> 01:02:20.159
Like cases just get solved in these insane, tangential ways,

967
01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:24.719
like connections get made, and I just I want that.

968
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:26.119
I want that.

969
01:02:26.079 --> 01:02:33.679
So so badly for for so many you know, of

970
01:02:33.719 --> 01:02:37.000
these people, you know that that we don't really know

971
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:39.239
what's happened to them, and I want that for their

972
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:40.760
for their families.

973
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:44.280
And we do this every.

974
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:47.239
Week, you know, we put out a new episode, and

975
01:02:48.639 --> 01:02:52.400
like when something becomes routine, I feel like there's always

976
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:54.599
a little bit of a feeling that like it can

977
01:02:54.639 --> 01:02:58.159
become sort of like you can become a little blase

978
01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:02.599
about it, and I I don't know, I guess maybe

979
01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:05.760
part of me is just surprised that like that's not

980
01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:10.199
I'm still not really there yet, you know, like each

981
01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:12.400
of these kind of like hits me in a new

982
01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:16.920
like there's a little piece of me that like is

983
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:20.719
like with each of these stories that you talked about.

984
01:03:21.679 --> 01:03:24.599
I don't know, maybe if we do like another, like

985
01:03:26.480 --> 01:03:30.039
we're like at like almost like two hundred and fifty episodes,

986
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:34.000
like full episodes, Like maybe another two fifty, I won't

987
01:03:34.039 --> 01:03:38.840
like feel so personally and emotionally impacted every time.

988
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:42.360
But don't I don't see it. I don't think I'm

989
01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:47.920
gonna get there. Probably not. I don't know. We're not robots. Yeah, yeah,

990
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:48.440
I don't know.

991
01:03:49.880 --> 01:03:55.039
Oh, all right, well let's say goodbye and hope that

992
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:57.320
we just put it out there and something happens.

993
01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:00.519
I know. I'm like, oh, that's to say, you put it,

994
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:02.519
You put it very succinctly.

995
01:04:04.079 --> 01:04:08.559
Have a creepysday. We'll see you next Thursday. And I

996
01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:10.599
hope all the unsolved cases gets.

997
01:04:10.320 --> 01:04:13.679
Helved and stop making nine to one one calls on

998
01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:16.760
Cassie's birthday, you assholes.

999
01:04:16.519 --> 01:04:23.320
Stop fucking wasting police time seriously and like family hopes and.

1000
01:04:23.679 --> 01:04:26.320
Like it's it's I just hate that. I hate it

1001
01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:26.880
so much.

1002
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:32.199
And here's like part of me hates it because I'm

1003
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:35.159
like part of me thinks, like, was that just the hopes,

1004
01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:38.199
And part of me hates it because I'm like, I

1005
01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:42.719
think it was real and they haven't been able to

1006
01:04:42.840 --> 01:04:45.239
like make anything real come from it.

1007
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.079
Yeah, And either way, I hate that.

1008
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.239
I hate that because either you did it and then

1009
01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:56.079
you fucking chickened out in the eleventh hour, or you're

1010
01:04:56.199 --> 01:05:02.159
just an asshole, like ambulance chaser type motherfucker who doesn't

1011
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:06.360
actually know anything and just wasted so many resources.

1012
01:05:06.760 --> 01:05:09.920
Either way, I really kind of think this guy sucks.

1013
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:14.760
That's the takeaway. You wire men.

1014
01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:15.519
Wire men.

1015
01:05:17.480 --> 01:05:21.519
I think if we played a drinking game where all

1016
01:05:21.559 --> 01:05:24.119
you had to do was drink when we said things

1017
01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:29.559
like wire men or something similar, everybody would be ship

1018
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:32.239
faced by the end. Nobody would be driving.

1019
01:05:32.760 --> 01:05:37.039
Let's put it in no way sleepover party, Let's go.

1020
01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:41.679
Oh my god. Okay,