Nancy Moyer: Two Wine Glasses on the Table | Tenino, WA

0:01 The front door was ajar. The living room lights were on, the television was on a bedside lamp in Nancy's bedroom was still lit. On the coffee table sat too partially consumed glasses of wine. Her purse was inside her identification wallet, car keys, and cigarettes were all in the house. Her white Honda Civic del Soul was parked out front. There was no sign of a struggle, there was no sign of forced entry, and arguably most importantly, there was no Nancy. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people.

0:44 Oh hellou. This is PNW Hans and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, sometimes the Titanic, and. You know, we'll just whatever we're feeling. I guess whatever we want. It's our show. Oh yeah, don't leave us alone. And we also do Tara reading at the end of every episode, just you know, for a little insight into what we're talking about. All right, So we have a new member of the Patreon joining us. Yeah, joining us. It looks like for a whole year on the never Bundy Tier, which.

1:31 Is congratulations to you. You're stuck with us. Yeah, So thank you to Peter for joining us, for one whole year. Thank you, Peter, Yay. We hope you love it here join the chat. It's really fun because, like I post a bunch of shit in the chat only for Patreon, so. I know, sometimes when I haven't been on there for like a few days, I'll pop on and be like, oh my gosh, what's happening here? There's there's things. Yeah, you get you get a little insight into our life. It's kind of like doing taro, yeah a little bit right. I know last time I posted a really nasty picture of myself in there, so you're welcome, you guys.

2:15 I saw that. It was pretty cool. I was in the gift shop at Titanic and I was really excited because I found the heart of the ocean and I want to take a picture, but the lighting was horrible in there. Oh no, I'm ever going to see this photo but my friends. And then I was like, well, pictures my friends too, so I'll just send it in there. I love that. I know, maybe I'll have to take a picture of my first class teacup and saucer. Yes, it's very fun, say, I'm so excited. And went to the Titanic exhibit because I made her so excited. I know, well, and then it just so happened, and I'll just say this, Uh, Momsy has like a five dollars day every first Sunday of the month, and so it just so happened that right after we recorded your episode that Sunday was the cheaper Sunday. Now, of course they weren't going to let us in for just five dollars flat. There's like an up charge for the exhibit blah blah blah. But it ended up being like less than half price all in nice, so I felt good about it. And then it was so nice on the waterfront that you know, we kind of had a nice afternoon.

3:35 Yeah, very Portland day. Yeah, it was all right. But the thing we're going to talk about isn't very portland Y because it's actually not in Portland. But you know, well, is it in the PNW. At least it is. As per Us if you're nasty, If you're nasty. Known as the Stone City for historic sandstone buildings to Nino, Washington is a rural town with a population of less than two thousand. Dang, it's very small. What is Sandstone? I wasn't prepared for that question.

4:19 It's It's raw is a sedimentary rock formed by the accumulation and sementation of sand sized grains, predominantly quartz or feldspar, over millions of years. Oh see, that was interesting. Yeah, it's a tight knit community, the kind of place where you know your neighbors. I feel like that was like the last episode. You said that too. You've been doing small towns. Yeah, yeah, I feel like my vibe recently has been a little bit like small town seems. Safe, quiet, just kid. Yeah, I don't know.

5:04 I feel like the last couple that I've come across that I've wanted to talk about that's just been like luck of the draw. But it does. It does feel a little bit like a theme recently. Tonoe strikes a balance between quiet, small town living while still offering close proximity to other neighboring larger cities. It's just fifteen miles south of the state's capital in Olympia, and, depending on traffic, about an hour and a half south of the Emerald City Seattle. I feel like I sound like somebody who was hired by the board of the city, like for their tourism website or something.

5:50 But I'm mentioning Olympia for a specific reason. And I always feel like, if you grew up in Washington, maybe you don't feel this way, but I all always kind of do this, and I do it with Oregon too. I want to know, like, what's the proximity to Seattle, what's the proximity to Portland? You know? Like, yeah, I always kind of find myself comparing just to kind of get a vibe. I do that too. Also, when you say Emerald City, I'm like, Wizard of Us. Wizard of Us? Is the wizard there? Oh? There is a wizard there? Is it? Uh? What's this Jeff Goldbloom?

6:32 Oh that'd be nice. I wonder if they're going to bring back his travel show Chris and I loved that. Yeah, me too, Ton, I. Know is where Thirty six year old Nancy Moyer was living in two thousand and nine, commuting to Lacey for her job as a financial analyst for the Washington State Department of Ecology. She'd grown up in Olympia, and after meeting and marrying Bill Moyer, had since become a devoted mother to their young daughters, Sam and Amanda. The couple had been separated for a couple of years. By two thousand and nine she was happily making a fresh start and moving forward as a single woman after a decade of marriage.

7:15 So wow, that's a vibe. Yes, it is, And it's interesting because I feel like that's kind of another parallel to the last case as well. Lindsay's family had moved from Tennessee for a fresh start after a divorce. Oh's yeah, okay, yeah, I know. It's kind of something that gets mentioned in the very beginning, and I think like one of the saddest things that we talked about with that case was that it was like then after Lindsay went missing, they immediately kind of had. To move again, right the family. Yeah, damn. Though it's almost always sad when a marriage ends, the split was described is amicable, which honestly kind of a feat.

8:04 I feel like the pair had. Come to an agreement regarding custody arrangements without involving courts. So that's always good because that's trumatic, I know, Yeah, it really is, and I feel like it's not necessarily the norm these days. You just don't see that as much. Bill took the girls on weekends while Nancy watched them during the week, and neither missed a pickup or drop off. They were both like really good parents from everything that I came across, and I don't know, it just seems like like what awesome people that they're like having this amicable divorce. They're like really putting the kids first. They're just you know, trying to move forward and like start their lives over and just put like their best foot forward. Yeah, that reliability would become one of the first signals that something was deeply wrong.

9:06 I feel like suspenseful music needs to start. I know, I'm feeling more nervous about the situation. I know I'm feeling like I need at least one foot up in the chair. And now that I put one up, I feel like the other one just wants to join. So there we go. I'm crisscross apple sauce now so we can continue. But tonight, I know, for all its small town charm is also a place where, within a span of little more than a year, two women would meet violent ends. That proximity of geography, of timing of community is one of the most unsettling threads running through this case. We're is saying something because there's a lot of really unsettling shit about this case.

9:53 If I'm being honest, I'm like, I don't know yet. I know. On Friday, March sixth, two thousand and nine, Nancy left the Department of Ecollegey office at approximately five point fifteen pm. Before heading home, she drove a coworker home, a detail that will become significant later in the investigation. And I say that because we actually, based on all of the research that I did, don't know who this coworker was. And there's a there's a piece of the investigation that it's like, but we need to know that we and I'm going to tell you why, just not yet, but we need to know. After dropping the coworker off, Nancy stopped at the to ninoh thrift Way at approximately six forty five and paid by check. So this is, I mean, two thousand and nine, still very much like the modern era.

10:55 But that should tell you something because I don't know of almost any place on God's Green Earth that takes a check anymore. I can't even pay rent with a check. So the sighting at the thrift Way several years back, that was believed to be the last confirmed sighting of Nancy, it is no longer the girls were with Bill that weekend. Hours later, a to Nino police officer running radar had spotted Nancy unloading groceries from her car between nine and nine thirty pm. And this is now the last confirmed sighting of her alive.

11:35 Wow, why did it take so long for that to come out? You know, I don't really know, I would assume because you know, when you're running radar, you're essentially like you're just trying to catch speeders. Yeah, and so it feels like kind of unrelated. But somehow, over the years of this investigation that came to light. So there are a number of podcasts that talked about this case, and we're going to actually talk about the major one, the main one, a little bit later, but there's a lot of information and kind of like content or coverage out there about the case that still shows that as being the last time she was seen. And it's because that's, you know, kind of a development that's happened over time. On Sunday, March eighth, Bill brought the girls back to Nancy's home on the seven hundred block of State Route five oh seven.

12:35 The front door was a jar, the living room lights were on, the television was on a bedside lamp in Nancy's bedroom was still lit. On the coffee table sat two partially consumed glasses of wine. Both were fingerprinted by investigators. Only Nancy's prints were identified. She was double fist in it. I don't think so. The second glass has never been explained. That is so interesting. Like I wonder if she just had just like handed it or not handed it, but like set it down for whoever else was there, but they never picked it up.

13:16 That or their prints aren't in the system. Oh okay, hmmm, it's hard to say because it's never been explained. They didn't say there was like unidentified other unidentified prints on it. I don't know that they've ever conclusively stated that there was like another identifiable second set of prints by like another individual that they just couldn't confirm who they belonged to. That piece of it is is a little bit murky, and so I think it's really interesting. Yeah, her purse was inside her identification wallet, car, keys, and cigarettes were all in the house.

14:01 Her white Honda Civic del Soul was parked out front. There was no sign of a struggle, there was no sign of forced entry, and arguably most importantly, there was no Nancy where she I mean, I can't even imagine. I'm sure that's the question that you know her. This is you know a man that obviously clearly loved her at one point, he's there to drop off their kids and he's like, where the hell is Nancy. Yeah, that would be so weird and like eerie to walk it like you're just normal day dropping off the kids and then like, yeah, they're. Just not there. I mean some of those details, like the fact that her car's still there, Basically everything that a woman would normally have in their purse, all of those things are still there. Her car's still there, like and like the front door being a jar, that is yeah. I mean if I showed up to somebody's house and their door was a jar and they're not like walking in or out, I oof, Yeah, I can't. No, it's not a good vibe.

15:11 Bill Moyer reported her missing at five pm on March eighth. By March twelfth, detectives have found no evidence of a break in or struggle, but classified the disappearance as suspicious and eventually as a presumed homicide, what law enforcement would typically call a no body homicide. Ten days after her disappearance, dozens of searchers and ten cadaver dogs come to the area. No trace of Nancy was found. Investigators moved quickly to establish a timeline and identify persons of interest. Bill Moyer was cleared as a suspect early in the investigation. He passed a polygraph test, and the nature of the couple's separation just did point in his direction. It wasn't an acrimonious divorce in progress, I mean, no custody dispute. It doesn't seem like there was any sort of you know, there's no history of violence, I mean really anything to indicate that he would want Nancy dad. And if you think about it, you probably if you were going to try to kill your you know, future ex wife and you know that she's you know, no longer with us, you're not going to take your kids into her creepy ass house where their mom is no longer Like that

16:42 would be so traumatic. I just I would struggle to think that any loving father would do that to their child. Now if you were, you know, some sort of a psycho, obviously, but it doesn't seem like that's the case. Yeah, they ruled them all. I'm sure that was like their first suspect. Oh absolutely, yeah, I mean any romantic partner, whether it's current or former. There they jump up to the top of the list. The case attracted early attention, but few leads materialized. Retired police officer Fred Dodie took up Nancy's case in the years following her disappearance, telling media, I think it's somebody she knew, but the case began going cold.

17:31 That makes sense because there was the like the two wine glasses and then like the no entry things. So yeah, absolutely, yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. You're like, clearly, if it was somebody she didn't know, she's probably not inviting them in for wine, you know, the acquaintance. Yeah, like somebody that she would have felt comfortable allowing into her home in all likelihood. Now, I mean it's totally possible. I would say probably unlikely, just given on what we know about the timeline. But it's totally possible that she had a glass of wine with someone at her home and that person has nothing to do with her disappearance.

18:14 But again, I think that's unlikely given the timeline. It was, you know, already late at night when she was unloading the groceries. So in twenty ten, a separate and deeply disturbing case emerged into Nino that would eventually intersect with Nancy's. Bernard Keith Howell the third, a twenty six year old door to door meet salesman, was pulled over. I know, it gets so much worse. Was pulled over on August eighth, twenty ten, near Parkside Elementary School. Uh oh, do you want to take a guess of what why he was pulled over or what happened?

19:03 Was he being weird around children? You know what? Given the location, that is a really good guess. But it's. It's not that I don't want to comment on whether it's better or worse than that per se, but it is. It's very ichy, just in a different way. Vanda boone, sixty was in the passenger seat, her body wrapped in a sleeping bag and plastic. Wait what uh huh? He got pulled over with the body in his car? Sure did what?

19:45 So? Remember I did say at the top that there would be two women who would meet violent ends. Yeah you did. Yeah, so one of them is, unfortunately Vanda. Oh Howell murdered. Vanda on the Yelm Tenanino Trail approximately seventeen months after Nancy Moyer disappeared. The poor woman's throat was slit and she suffered blunt force trauma to her head and neck that also contributed to her death. Howell initially told detectives he had found her already dead and wanted to spare Vanda's family the cost of a funeral.

20:28 That literally makes no sense. Yes, so typical. Not only does he try to deflect from his crime, but in a twisted way, also tries to paint himself in a positive light with just a completely ridiculous story. I mean, here's the thing. In my mind, any person with a shred of empathy would understand that. I don't know. Most families want to understand what happened to their loved one and grieve their loss. Yeah, with understandably, I would argue financial concerns trailing as a much lesser consideration. I don't think that anybody who has discovered oh no, my mother, my sister, whoever has died, says, oh gosh, I wish somebody would have just taken the body and never let us know what happened to them, so we wouldn't have to pay for a funeral.

21:26 Seriously, and like, if you're that concerned, start a fucking GoFundMe or something like. Seriously, But I mean, okay, so let's pretend for a moment that we believe any facet of that ridiculousness saving them money would actually rob them of that closure. So, I don't know, it just seems unreasonable that even he would have bought into that horrific logic, especially when you consider that he later admitted to having sex with her dead body. No, I hate you, I know, I know. Yeah, it's uh, there's very little. There's really nothing redeeming about this aspect of the case that has become intertwined. It's uh pretty horrendous.

22:22 Jesus Christ. And this is how it all ties back. Howell had lived less than a mile from Nancy Moyer's home. Though Howell denied ever selling any of his wares to Nancy, investigators found the same brand of meat Howell had been selling. Door to door in Nancy's freezer. Mmmm hmm okay. Also, her daughter identified Howell from a photo montage as the man who had once sold her mother meat. Okay, I don't. Know why that is the thing that you're fighting so hard to deny admitted to having sex with a dead body, but you won't admit that you sold meat to a woman that has since gone missing. I guess maybe you don't want to give them anything to go on and have them, you know, slap you with charges for that presumed crime as well. But right, but you said this is a small town, right, Like ye? How many door door meat salesmen are there going to be in this one small town? Like, I mean, I have to imagine even if there was a ridiculous number of them, say a dozen, what come on?

23:43 Yeah? How many different brands? Forget, even if he's the specific salesman, how many different brands of meat are sold door to door? Yeah, I'm sorry, Bud, Like I think we know that, Like I think we know you sold her this meat. I don't think that feels like it's super open for debate. I don't know, I. Don't know why, but this is also reminded me of the movie I just told you to. Watch Men, Just like why are men? Why it's happening? I mean, just ridiculousness, just absolute bullshit, Like do you think that anyone is buying this.

24:26 And just picturing him going indoor? Just a man going door to door, Hey want to buy my meat? Like it just ough. Oh, everything about this is just absolute maximum ick. And actually there's a teeny bit more. Just to kind of put a bow on that portion of of the ick I got. I don't even. His defense attorney argued that Howell and admitted havevy user of amphetamine, which I can't imagine is a detail that surprises anyone, not really, no specifically, and the lead up to the murder, had been experiencing drug induced psychosis, having exhibited some common symptoms, including hearing voices and harboring a desire for extreme isolation. So you know, listen, he would never have had sex with a dead person that he killed normally, but you know, the meth and maybe maybe that's true. I kind of find myself not caring that either way. But initially found incompetent to stand trial, Howell was treated at Western State Hospital so his competency could be restored prior to entering a guilty plea to first degree murder. He was sentenced twenty seven years for Boone's murder.

26:02 He has denied any involvement in Nancy's disappearance, and there's no evidence linking him to Nancy's case that has ever been found that we know of, and he's never been charged, right, Yeah, but I. Mean her, it's hardly a smoking gun. Yeah. It says that probably he interacted with her at some point, but there's no other connection, so he's he's never been charged in connection with Nancy's disappearance. For nearly a decade, Nancy's case went cold. Samantha Moyer, her daughter grew up in that absence. She didn't get to see me, graduate, she didn't get to see my first dance, drive a car, any of that.

26:54 It's just been hard since then. Yeah, and I will chill. Yeah, it's so awful. It's like obviously like you know, yeah that that's hard, but like there's not really even any other words to really describe it as a kid going through that, Like, man, it's just fucking hard. Yeah. Intellectually, you know that if someone is missing like this and the way that Nancy is, of course there are gonna be these huge milestone moments in her children's life that she's gonna miss. But to hear her child describe that just hits Yeah, it hits different. The podcast Hide and Seek brought renewed interest and national attention to the case. Reportedly, law enforcement has even credited the show as having help to generate new leads.

27:57 I know it's a dream. Yeah, you know, I don't know how I feel about the host at this point in history. But you know that's a whole separate thing. I have no idea. So yeah, yeah, so just happy, just happy. Yeah, We're going to choose in this moment for the purposes of telling this case, to separate the art from the artist. Okay. Season one was launched in March twenty nineteen, coinciding with the ten year anniversary of Nancy's disappearance. And you know how we feel about synchronicities. Yeah, and then something else happened, and it didn't quite hit me until I'm looking at the date again.

28:46 Now I'm really sorry, Cassie. Then, on July ninth, twenty nineteen, more than ten years after Nancy disappeared, fifty three year old Eric Lee Roberts called nine to one one from his home, and I think there is sort of a thing in the true crime community where we're like three names. It's one too many. M hmm. If they're using all three, that's some serial killer shit, it sure is. That's all I'm saying red flag. It is red flag exactly. Yeah, where's the red flag guy when I need him? He told the dispatcher he wanted to confess to a murder.

29:30 When asked which murder, he said he had killed Nancy Moyer ten years ago. What. Yeah, he said he had felt tired of holding it inside. Roberts told the dispatcher his full name, his date of birth, and his address, which is an unusual level of self identification for a nine to one one call. And it just feels very deliberate, kind of. A little bit. It's another kind of eerie choice. Yeah, it makes me, well, I don't know, It just like makes me wonder was it actually him or was it like someone else pretending?

30:12 Maybe him bakes the question. It begs a lot of questions, I would argue. The confession by Roberts came in July twenty nineteen, mid season, and while season one was still airing of the podcast Wow, the host James Bassinger Bassinger I don't know stays. A law enforcement source told him that Roberts specifically mentioned the podcast when he was questioned about his confession. So he was listening to the podcast about Nancy Moyer and it dug its way into his brain and pushed him to this confession.

30:58 Allegedly, it's giving false confession vibes for sure. I don't know it kind of is giving yeah, false confession or just I don't know, it's giving hoax. Yeah. Later in October of that same year, Nancy's case was also selected for Crowdsolves, a true crime convention held in Seattle. So twenty nineteen is another really big year for her case, ten years after she disappeared. Now, let's talk about this guy, I guess if we have to. Roberts had worked with her at the Washington State Department of Ecology for years and had previously lived just down the road from her home.

31:51 Nancy had reportedly been dating Roberts's nephew at the time of her disappearance. Oh, though Roberts denied having a really relationship with Nancy or that she had visited his home in the early days of the investigation. Okay, so lie, so lie, It sounds like potentially lie a lot. He also had a documented history of domestic violence, including an outstanding warrant for fourth degree domestic violence at the time of his arrests. A former girlfriend described a jeckle and hide personality, and said he became violent when he drank, sometimes choking her during sex to the point where she had to struggle, scratching and clawing at him to get him to stop.

32:45 God, that's horrific. It's really horrendous. At that point, I'm thinking to myself, like whether or not he did anything to hurt Nancy, he's clearly a monster. Yeah. That same former girlfriend also reportedly told investigators that after Nancy's disappearance, Roberts poured a large concrete pad in the rear of his property with plans to either build a fort for his son or a man cave for himself. She thought that was a bit odd because no utilities ran to that area of the property. A separate informant confirmed the concrete structure and noted that after it was poured, the gatherings and camping that used to happen on Robert's land stopped entirely. Hmm. So it was like, I don't know, speculate wildly, but I don't know if I had a body that I had hidden on my property, even if it was under a cement pad.

33:54 I might not want people poking around. Just the thought, Yeah, No, definitely not Like I hate a concrete slab. It's not my favorite. It's not great. Just a random, a random one, you know, like it's yeah, it feels never good. It takes me back to Ashley and Miranda. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She also said Roberts had admitted to her that he had a sexual relationship with Nancy, something that again we already know he denied to police, and that when her mother asked about Nancy's disappearance, Roberts became upset and said, what are you the fucking police?

34:41 I mean no, but like kind of important because her daughter is missing, Like. Yeah, just have some follow up questions for you if that's cool. Wow. Roberts had denied everything from the beginning. When detectives first and reviewed him in May two thousand and nine, just weeks after Nancy disappeared, he told them he and Nancy were friendly at work, but she had never been to his home. When detective Mickey Hamilton arrived to his home on Sheldon Lane and interviewed Roberts in a squad car, he was visibly distressed, crying, clenching and unclenching his fists, wringing his hands. So this is we're fast forwarding to twenty nineteen. This is right after the nine to one one call. This conversation was recorded in part and presented contradictory statements about the events surrounding Nancy's death. The thing about that that kind of puts me off is sometimes a killer will present conflicting stories for so many different reasons, and then sometimes somebody who's just maybe a little unhinged and in toxic will present differing accounts of events.

36:04 I don't know what to think. Right, Well, if you're like Jekyl and hiding, like you may remember. Yeah, and maybe you don't remember because you don't know what happened, like you had nothing to do with it. I really don't know which way to go on this one. I feel like it looks really damning, but he's not the only one where it's like, you know, it looks damning. It doesn't look good, But I don't really have anything that's conclusive, if that makes sense. Yeah. His initial account was that he had simply reacted when Nancy attacked him. The alleged attack, he said, possibly having occurred near the Shehelis River, So you know that she attacked you, But the fact that it possibly having occurred near the Shahelis River. Just like, how much of this foggy recollection are we supposed to actually give any cree to?

37:01 It was so weird. When asked why he didn't seek help after she went unresponsive, he said he had freaked out and didn't think he had working phones at the time. Okay, but eventually you get to a place where your phone does work. Right, exactly. That was exactly the same thought that I had. I was like, but surely at some. Point in between then and now you had an opportunity. Yeah. And you've been interviewed obviously as one of her coworkers. Yeah, I just I don't I obviously the fact that they work together. That is the other piece, because we know that she dropped off a coworker the night of her disappearance. Yeah, it's unclear if he was the co worker, but if he was, that kind of adds another element to this.

37:54 It's another layer. After providing this initial account, he asked to techs to stop recording before shifting his demeanor becoming more relaxed, eventually turning to Detective Hamilton, and then his story changed. He told the detective that he had. Killed Nancy at his house, that they had been having rough sex and that he had accidentally strangled her with a scarf. Oh my god, and looks like a completely different scenario. Mm hmmm, what is happening?

38:35 He said he had been drunk or high at the time. I mean, two things can be true. You could have been both. But are you unsure? I just don't understand, Like what. When asked where they could find Nancy's body, Roberts asked if they wanted. To take a walk. No, but yes. He led detectives to the back of his proper, where a concrete fire pit was located. He stood staring at it without speaking. When asked about it directly, he said, I don't really want to incriminate myself any further, but if I was going to get rid of a body on my property, it would be right there, and pointed to the fire pit. Like can you just fucking say it?

39:22 You got damn pussy like or you ball sack? You know, Like, yeah, just say it, you're already saying it. Just say it. Just speak plainly. I don't know. I'm not sure if this is some sort of a dissociative episode. I don't I really don't know. What to make of it, and it's super frustrating. Roberts also told detectives he did not believe Nancy's body would ever be found, but indicated they should search his basement and the area around the fire pit. He said he had burned the scarf, but he also said that he had kept her close. The Thurston County Sheriff's office and the FBI searched Robert's property for two days. They collected evidence sent for forensic testing, but they did not find Nancy.

40:14 What the fuck. The following day, Roberts recanded, telling investigators he wasn't sure why he'd said that he killed Nancy Moyer. Though he was arrested on suspicion of second degree murder and held on one point five million dollars bail, prosecutors reduced bail within days and announced they would not file murder charges until the investigation was complete. Roberts was briefly held on a federal firearms charge after seventeen guns were found in his residence during the search. That seems excessive, seems like a I don't know. That might be it's a little bit of an arsenal, might be unnecessary, but the charge was later dismissed when the weapon in question was found not to meet the legal definition of an illegal firearm.

41:09 I don't know what that means, and I hate it. Can we arrest him for just wasting everyone's time? Maybe too, That would be fantastic. He was then briefly rearrested on a pre existing fourth degree domestic violence warrant from Snahomish County before that charge was also dropped. I hate this, I really hate it. So we're just charging him with things and hoping that something is gonna stick. And I get that. Sometimes that's just that, it's just the way we gotta go. You know, we got al capone for tax evasion and racketeering, right, I get it. But something has to happen to this guy, like something, get him for something something.

41:56 Clearly, even if he didn't murder Nancy, he is not an awesome dude. On July thirty first, twenty nineteen, Eric Lee Roberts was released from custody. No murder charges have ever been filed against him. He has never been charged in connection with Nancy Moyer's disappearance. As of the most recent verified reporting, he remains free and the investigation remains open. When Season four of Hide and Seek premiered in October of twenty twenty four, it focused primarily on the March twenty twenty three disappearance of Shane Barton. However, returning to Thurston County the location of both disappearances allowed for follow up on Nancy's case as well, But where the case stands nobody, no charges, a family still waiting, though Roberts was held on probable cause no charges wherever formally filed damn not for murder. All these years, her loved ones have tried to continue on in their forever fractured lives, still hoping for answers and perhaps one day justice. Nancy's case is now being actively investigated by the Thurston County Sheriff's Office dedicated cold case unit, established in June twenty

43:29 twenty four. Oh wow, just like two years ago. Yeah, and it's I think that's another kind of parallel to the Lindsay baumb case too, where it's like, you know, a recently established cold case unit. I'm into those. Help, I know, hopeful I dig it Nancy's physical description for reference. She was five feet tall, approximately one hundred and fifteen to one hundred and twenty pounds. She had dark brown hair and brown eyes. She had ear and naval piercings, a total of seven tattoos, including hibiscus flowers on her left hip and two cherries with the initials A. N S on her right foot for her daughters, I really like her, as well as the scar on her right knee.

44:26 Anyone with information is asked to contact the Thurston County Sheriff's Office at three six zero seven eight six five five zero zero. There is currently a five thousand dollars reward for information in the case, and we're going to put information about where you can reach out with tips in the show notes. Of course, there's an email address that you can reach out to the cold case unit if you don't want to call. I hate getting on the phone for any reason. It's just so heartbreaking because it seems like as we've talked about, like the people that were considered persons of interest, you know, Howl the third and Roberts, both of them, it just you know, it starts to as it starts to unravel.

45:22 We are like it looks it looks good. They look good for it, right, you know, Proximity is a really it's really compelling. I would say Roberts is obviously, between the two of them, the more compelling person of interest. And again I just, you know, I want to say, obviously, neither of them has ever been charged in connection with the case, but both of those, both of these mayon they definitely, you know, it's throwing up a really a. A blaring red flag. It's awful. And I feel like, for whatever reason, Thurston County seems like for you know, it seems like overall it you know, has some small towns, it's feels like it's relatively rural in a lot of that area. Like, how are we having so many people disappearing? And in a span of you know, roughly eighteen months, the Vanda Boone case and Nancy's disappearance and then spoiler alert, you know, the other case that they're talking about on season four of Hide and Seek, And I actually I have another case that I think I'm looking at in Thurston.

46:47 County right now. What in the actual fuck is going on in I mean, Pierce County is a big one too, for the state of Washington, but what the actual fuck is happening in Thurston County based on the population, Like y'all. What is going on. It is a little concerning, like weird. Stuff is going on too, Like this isn't this isn't normal things that we usually hear about. No, I feel like it's a lot of weird stuff. I feel like we need to do some taro and like just get this weirdness out of our system.

47:32 Yeah. I've got the altar all set up and I did a little pre shuffle and then I've had the cards hanging out on the selenite plate here for the last couple of hours. So I feel like we're doing everything we can to put the right vibes into this. Yeah, sending vibes. Can we not pull a card about the guy who sexually assaults dead people? Dead people? That would be great, poor innocent women who have passed on who don't need to be violated. Further seriously, Okay, I'm gonna fan the deck out. Let me know what region of the deck you feel like is calling to you. I've got it spread out in front of my keyboard. So if a number or a letter X oh interesting, okay, oh wow, Okay, So I'm keeping an eye on the spot kind of where I pulled this from, just in case, because I kind of was torn between two cards.

48:43 Oh so just to be safe, but and I don't know how well you're gonna be able to see this. On Oh okay, it's the one with the the oyster. Yeah. Nine of Cups. Yeah, oh look at you. Okay, I did a good job zooming get into you did. But we pulled it in the reverse, which makes sense because cups is such a positive suit that I feel like it must be sometimes I don't know, yeah, that's true, always always, And there's elements, like you know, we pull from from so many random.

49:24 Like aspects of a card. So okay, So nine of Cups are keywords are oh this actually this first one kind of makes me want to cry a little bit. Wishes come true. Oh and I feel like there are probably a lot of people that if they had one wish it would be that this case would be solved. Yeah. I know, like at least two people who really need that and want that. Yeah. Good luck, Happiness, abundance, and generosity. Often called the wish card, the nine of Cups is one of the most fortunate of all cards and boats well in any reading. Some decks show a wealthy person, perhaps a tavern owner or innkeeper sharing his or her largest with others filling their cups.

50:20 The two wine glasses. Oh yeah, oh it is interesting, we got cups. Yeah that okay, that makes so much sense. Reversed the nine of cups can indicate indulgence, excess, and or smugness about your riches. This card may also mean your errors are revealed, especially if your gains were ill gotten. Ooooh. In some cases, it shows you turning away from the material world to follow a spiritual path. In a reading about money, the reverse nine may show you're spending more than you make, or that you're pouring too much money into a venture. Or it may reveal errors and judgment related to a financial matter.

51:12 Uh okay, So this whole time, it was fucking reminding me about the guy who. I didn't want to pull the card about, who said that he took the. Deceased woman because he didn't want the family to pay for the funeral. Oh my god, I'm so glad that you remember that. I wasn't making that connection at all at all. Ugh. If the reading is about your job, this card may mean you're playing when you should be working. Perhaps you think you can rest on your laurels, but that's a mistake. Sometimes it suggests you've gained through questionable means or by allying yourself with unscrupulous people. It's so interesting that, like the finance piece of this is so prevalent, and she was literally working as a financial analyst in Yeah. Yeah, So I just wonder if you know, she's like aligned herself with you know, this person that she works with, and that is it feels like maybe it's pointing in that direction.

52:21 I don't want to overstate that. But yeah, I mean, obviously we don't know. It's just terar open. Yeah. In a reading about love, the reverse nine can indicate frivolousness, promiscuity, or insensitivity in relationships. In some cases, it warns and indiscretion may come to light. There's a few indiscretions happening with these national sexual endeavors. To say the least. There is an extra excerpt and it's really short. But nature is held together by the energy of love. I think we're both just like almost speechless because I feel like, I don't know, I want to believe that, like the nature of the natural world, the of the universe is that you know, love and people like caring about this case will be enough to at some point draw it to a conclusion.

53:25 Yeah. Oh man, Now I'm curious about the other card you were torn in grabbing. I'll pull it out. It's your card. Oh the fool. There's some fools up in this story as well. We drew it up right, So I'll read this one. I don't I feel like I'm not. I'm not necessarily as drawn to this. That's why we ended up with the other card. Okay, let's see I was raly. Yeah, well that may make sense. Keywords are innocence, beginnings, trust, hope, opportunity.

54:09 I was gonna say, it reminds me, just from what I know of the card, like maybe she blindly trusted someone she shouldn't have. You know, Oh god, that's exactly what I'm getting right now, because I mean, I think we know broad strokes what this card kind of means, but the interpretation. When the fool appears in a reading, it usually means you're about to embark on a new way of life, starting fresh. Yeah, you're open to new experiences and to discovering what lies around the bend. Even if you're not sure about the path you've chosen, you have faith that everything will turn out well. You probably feel out of sync with the rest of the world, but in a good way. You hear the beat of a different drummer and you're ready to march to it. In a reading about money, the full urges caution. You may be too trusting or you may be naive when it comes to handling financial matters.

55:08 This card can also represent the stage the first stage of a business or investment. Examine details carefully, pay attention to your intuition, not only logic. If the reading is about your work, the fool can indicate starting a new job, project or business venture, beginning a course of study, or going on a business trip. Honestly, it's giving very like obviously it's you know, all about kind of regeneration and like it's very fresh, fresh start energy. Yeah, you're looking forward to this adventure or new direction and its possibilities.

55:48 Embrace the opportunity with an open mind. You have a lot to learn. And I feel like it's her energy for sure, Like that's what she, yeah, was wanting, That's what she had and someone just took it from her. That's that's kind of the vibe that I'm feeling as well. In a reading about love. This card often means beginning a romance or moving into a new stage in an existing partnership. A new relationship may feel faded, as if you've met your soulmate. Enjoy this period of joy, openness, and excitement. I'm getting the like love bomb feeling like a little love bombing her right.

56:31 Maybe there's an extra excerpt And it's also uh eloquent in its brevity, shall we say love it? The quest for meaning always takes us into the unknown. Wow, which is very eerie in life. Is yeah, because they like that's the whole thing. Is like they're trying to find what happened and like why and the meaning of it, but it's just unknown. It's really interesting because the fool in reverse is just to like super quickly skim. Some of the main points are an impulsive action could lead to a fall. Don't do this hastily. Think before you act, however, for you might regret. And this card can also warn you to look more closely at a partner or relationship. Things may not be what you think. It's very like it's cautionary vibes. Yeah, and it's really interesting.

57:42 Well, that was some insight into a little a couple of little things that wasn't you know, like super right on like they are sometimes, But I feel like there were definitely elements that fit. Yeah. I don't feel like there was necessarily like the lightning rod that sometimes we feel with other cases, but it did feel like there were parts of that that really like clicked and made sense. Yeah, unless we're missing totally like missing something new creepy. People can comment on the things and tell us what you think. Yeah, absolutely, And as always, if you want to see the cards, you can go to our Instagram and we post pictures of them that we do.

58:26 Because they're very beautiful. They're from the PNW deck She' party. Should we do our outro? Are you? Yeah? A bye byes? Are bye bye? Yeah. It's just I don't know for some reason, this one, Like I know, we talked about unsolved ones all the time, but this one's like leaving me with just such a like damn, like fuck, come on, especially with the false like confession guy. Yes, it feels like it's so close and I feel like, you know, Lindsey Baum, the last one that we talked about that was unsolved, and I don't like to do a bunch of unsolved stacked on top of each other typically, but like I do feel like part of me has been kind of drawn to them recently, just because it feels like it's meaningful.

59:16 To talk about them. And I think every case there's like meaning that we can bring to, you know, the conversation around these cases. But I feel like unsolved there's something that you know, I kind of go through phases where I want to talk about unsolved. You know. I don't feel like I struggle with the illusion that like we're going to solve the case necessarily, but I just feel like it's all part of being a part of the conversation that like keeps these cases in people's minds and like keeps people talking about them and trying to.

59:57 You just never know, like you really never know who's listening, or what could come up, or what could spark a memory, Like something dumb we say could like spark someone's memory, or I. Don't know, no, I mean truly, and that is honestly, like you know, I said, and I kind of only half jokingly earlier, but like, you know, oh, that's the dream about you know, our podcast, Like somehow even tangentially like stirring up a lead. But it's like ultimately like that is kind of like you do want to think that you're making a difference by talking about these stories.

1:00:38 I don't know that I feel like I need to like get credit for it, like in that way. I mean, it would certainly be like an affirmation and it would make you feel like good, okay, like everything that we have done, all the work that we put into it, like it feels like worthwhile in this really meaningful way, like that has like shaped something important. But I think I'm happy just knowing that, Like the conversation, you know, it's kind of one of those things that's like it's it's. Not the destination, it's the journey. It's kind of similar to that that's.

1:01:19 Like very fool card that is so cool card, Like that is like the epitome of the Forlord, Like it's the destination or it's the journey. Yeah, the destination. Yeah, I'm like I'm happy knowing just that, Like you know, if there if there's anyone that's listening, you know, to the episode that you know we're that we're doing, and whether it's this case or another unsolved that we've talked about, Like part of me is just happy knowing if there are people that haven't heard the case before that are hearing it and they are, you know, thinking about it, and even if they're not local to the area, and you know, maybe they don't think in a million years that they're ever gonna know anything about the case.

1:02:02 Like you just don't know. It's like a butterfly flaps its. Wings and like maybe you know maybe a year from now you're talking to somebody and like you just don't know. Like cases just get solved in these insane, tangential ways, like connections get made, and I just I want that. I want that. So so badly for for so many you know, of these people, you know that that we don't really know what's happened to them, and I want that for their for their families. And we do this every.

1:02:44 Week, you know, we put out a new episode, and like when something becomes routine, I feel like there's always a little bit of a feeling that like it can become sort of like you can become a little blase about it, and I I don't know, I guess maybe part of me is just surprised that like that's not I'm still not really there yet, you know, like each of these kind of like hits me in a new like there's a little piece of me that like is like with each of these stories that you talked about. I don't know, maybe if we do like another, like we're like at like almost like two hundred and fifty episodes, like full episodes, Like maybe another two fifty, I won't like feel so personally and emotionally impacted every time.

1:03:39 But don't I don't see it. I don't think I'm gonna get there. Probably not. I don't know. We're not robots. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. Oh, all right, well let's say goodbye and hope that we just put it out there and something happens. I know. I'm like, oh, that's to say, you put it, You put it very succinctly. Have a creepysday. We'll see you next Thursday. And I hope all the unsolved cases gets. Helved and stop making nine to one one calls on Cassie's birthday, you assholes. Stop fucking wasting police time seriously and like family hopes and.

1:04:23 Like it's it's I just hate that. I hate it so much. And here's like part of me hates it because I'm like part of me thinks, like, was that just the hopes, And part of me hates it because I'm like, I think it was real and they haven't been able to like make anything real come from it. Yeah, And either way, I hate that. I hate that because either you did it and then you fucking chickened out in the eleventh hour, or you're just an asshole, like ambulance chaser type motherfucker who doesn't actually know anything and just wasted so many resources.

1:05:06 Either way, I really kind of think this guy sucks. That's the takeaway. You wire men. Wire men. I think if we played a drinking game where all you had to do was drink when we said things like wire men or something similar, everybody would be ship faced by the end. Nobody would be driving. Let's put it in no way sleepover party, Let's go. Oh my god. Okay,