Freeway Killer(s) – Cold Cases Cracked by DNA

0:01 Of course, we can't forget that keeping a scorecard of his victims is how Kraft got his Moniker. There were reportedly six Portland entries. One of them was Portland. Denver. Michael was born September eighth of nineteen sixty two, and you guessed it Denver. At the time of his death, he just graduated from Golden High School and planned to enroll in community college at Denver's Red Rocks campus, but he was on a brief detour hitchhiking to Alaska. WHOA, Hi, Cassie, Hi Caitlin, Hi creepy people, HELLOUO, Hi lady.

0:45 Oh okay, don't start now, come on, you wanted to sit here again? We're likely excited to do the show again. Yeah, not even a full minute in and she's she's starting with us. This is PNW Hans and Hama asides, where we chat about true crime, the pair, and normal and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest in the PNW. If you're nict if you're nice, if you're nasty. We also do a little tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight into our topic. Yeah, thrown a few dog grumbles for good measure. All right, well, I don't think we have any business other than as you're listening to this episode, you've probably already listened to our first summertime feed drop. We're going to drop them in periodically, but obviously this week we're by.

1:39 We're taking a break, we swear. Yeah, I mean we're really bad at it, but we're trying. Uh So, this is a fresh one. It's very fresh, fresh, fresh off the hot press, hot off the press, Yeah, fresh off the oven, fresh off of the oven, hot off the press. What is it freshly baked? I don't know, hot off the griddle. Yeah. Well, I'm going to open my booze because I know you're going to fuck up my life. Oh yeah, I've already opened fine. So also, sorry if my voice is like so sensual that you can't listen to this episode. I mean, good thing. I'm the one doing most of the talking this time. Huh yeah, it's a little deep. It's better than it was when I woke up. It was really scary when I woke up this morning.

2:25 Yeah, it was like hello, because you sounded like, I don't know, like we were using the roadcaster to alter your voice. Yeah. Yeah, it was that scary? Yeah, So anyway, that's my drama, all right. Parrybond Nano Labs is back in the news, as is a previously unidentified murder victim, Larry Eugene Parks, along with his suspected killer, Randy Kraft aka the Scorecard Killer. Oh yes, I have not heard this one. Yeah, I have not, in truth covered Randy Craft. So we're kind of going to today a little bit. Okay, I mean, actually quite a bit. I shouldn't say a little bit. I've spent so much time reading about Randy Craft.

3:18 I'm really sick of him actually, But here we go. The alias was so coined due to the coded list believed to represent the sixty some victims he is believed likely to have masked. Sixty Yes, Sam, that's quite a bit, arguably sixty plus too many. I would say. His victims, mostly young men, particularly Marines, were tortured, raped, and murdered before he dumped their bodies, typically on a roadside, near an off ramp or another public place.

4:02 Shit, dude, Marines too, that's fucked. Yeah. Well, and we'll touch on a little bit. In some ways, they seem like almost unlikely victims because you think those are going to be people that can typically, you know, defend themselves, but they have to have the wherewithal to be able to do that. I was thinking, there's got to be something going on because like, those are tough, tough. People, so and I just think, you know, when you catch people and their guard is down, and you know, there are other factors at play in this case, but we'll get to that. At the time of his conviction, Kraft was believed to be the most prolific serial killer in the US.

4:47 To that point. He's since been. Entirely eclipsed by absolute monsters like Gary Ridgeway. He's the Green River Killer. For anyone who's not keeping up. Thank you. Sometimes I don't know, yeah, well, and sometimes you hear the name and you know, but then you have to try to think of like the alias, and yeah, it can be a lot. And Samuel Little, who remained active for multiple decades. Have we talked about him? We have not. Okay, he actually has killed in so many states and the number of his victims is so incredibly massive. It's it's a lot. It would be a lot.

5:32 I mean, you could do a whole podcast series about him, for sure. For sure. The name sounded familiar, but yeah, yeah, you're like, but I don't want to look into that any further. No, thank you. Yeah. Larry Parks was finally identified nearly forty five years after his murder this April. That was like a month ago, last month. Yep, thanks to genetic genial Oh shit. Another victim believed to have perished at the hands of Craft was identified after even longer, just shy of five full decades. Wow, so this identification actually came before the one that we're talking about, kind of primarily today. Michael Ray Schlicht, an Iowa native, was finally positively identified, also using genetic genealogy, though it appears like authorities worked with a different forensic laboratory in that case, just seventeen years old at the time of his death. His body was discovered and estimated three to five days after his death, which was officially ruled accidental, likely owing to the alcohol and diazepam found in his system.

6:53 Hmm, okay. H If Michael truly was a victim of Craft, he'd been killed years prior to Larry. But before Larry there was Michael. There were enough similarities in the cases of Larry Eugene Parks and Michael Sean o'fallen that authorities suspected the crimes were somehow related. During Craft's trial and sentencing, evidence from the murder investigations of both O'Fallon and Parks, then a Doe victim, was transferred to the Orange County District Attorney's office to be used in court. The evidence remained in Orange County until twenty twenty four. Craft was ultimately convicted of sixteen murders in California, but it's possible that he's guilty of dozens more that occurred near the West Coast, as well as additional states like Michigan and Iowa.

7:46 Oh wow, that's like far Yeah, that was the dumbest thing I've ever said. That's like really far right, really far. But it is like when you're talking about murder, I feel like it is. Yeah. I feel like what you see more often than not is the past of you know, they're caught because they work within a set area, and that's how some of these guys are able to get away with so much for so long, because they don't always operate in the same area. Yeah, I don't like that. I prefer my murders to be. What's the worst, like regional local where you know what's going to happen, predict predictable for my murders, predictable, predictable, Yeah, unpredictable.

8:28 It's fucking scary. No, it is, It absolutely is. It absolutely is. I think there's part of this then that you're going to really dislike. But the good news is it's it's all over. A lot of this was over before either of us was born. That has a lot to do with why I think it's so fascinating and it's so good to see because it's like, these are cases that there are people in their families that like they hadn't been born yet and their families still had no idea what had happened to them. So, I mean, it's just the gravity of that is it's really wild. In Craft's eventual trial, the evidence presented and the murder of seventeen year old Michael Sean O'Fallon was devastating to the defense.

9:21 In July of nineteen eighty, Michael's brutalized body had been bound alongside an I five entrance ramp in Jefferson, Oregon, which is a place that really is best triangulated in relation to nearby Woodburn, an area. Just south of Salem. Thank you. Yeah, we're from Oregon. And I was like, Jefferson, is I think a place I know? Woodburn? Yeah, it's kind of like a hamlet, I would say probably, I mean, especially back then, it might be. It might be a little bit more grown now. But to my knowledge, there's not a whole lot to see out there, but hopefully no. Its proximity to our states capital is helpful to anyone that's curious. Michael's own shoelaces had been used to hogtie him, and his body had been sexually mutilated, both of these details matching up to craft'smo as established by victims in the Orange County area. Drugs found in Michael's system were also a match to those later found in Craft's car. So that's the part that I said we would get back to, is he's.

10:29 One of those that is. Craft was known definitely to pick up hitch hikers, and he was known for offering them drugs alcohol, so incapacitating them, sometimes without their knowledge because that beer may not just be a beer. Ough, Yeah, hitchhiking, Like I get it. It was the eighties, Like some of these occurred in the seventies, and so that I think in the broader public knowledge, hitchhiking still was far more acceptable at that point, and people thought it was safe to a degree. It s actually you need to ride somewhere and somewhere on their way, Like yeah, it makes sense, yeah, but people have to fuck it up for everyone else pretty much.

11:16 Arguably the most important piece of evidence was a camera the victim had been carrying that was found in Craft's garage after his arrest on May fourteenth, nineteen eighty three. I had to think about it for a second, and then some of my source material went on to explain, but I was like, how cameras aren't necessary. There's got to be dozens, hundreds, thousands of people that own the same model, So like, how did they know? Yeah, I was going to ask if you knew, like what kind of camera it was. I really don't know what kind of camera. But even though people weren't taking a lot of selfies back in the eighties, the camera contained pictures taken in Canada, which o'fallen had just recently passed through. I thought, oh, well, maybe they found a bunch of pictures of him on it, so they knew it was his, which was kind of a dumb theory, I feel like now in hindsight, because people again not taking a lot of selfies. But you know, I'm looking at it through my lens.

12:19 Okay, I mean, at least there weren't like a bunch of dick pics on it. Well, we don't really know. I could have been Canadian dicks. Michael's camera had his mother's initials MJO and a decal on it, which was identified in court by both his mother and brother. In fact, Michael's brother even presented his own matching decal to the courtroom for confirmation during his testimony. Wow, so they were pretty fucking sure. Yeah, It's like, how how did they know that that camera like needed to be marked? Like, I know, that's it. It's probably an expensive item that Yeah.

12:59 Well, and they they just you know, typically once they're at the point of executing a search warrant and they had confirmed the identity of Michael O'Fallon, they have an awareness based on information given to them by the family about what did he have in his possession, So you know, something like that might be pretty easily, pretty readily identified. So like, thank goodness, they get that to the camera because that's undeniable proof. Oh it really is. Yeah. I was like, damn, okay, we all need to start marking our shit, you guys. Yeah, for real, of course we can't forget that. Keeping a scorecard of his victims is how Kraft got his moniker, which he still adamantly denies. There were reportedly six Portland entries.

13:55 One of them was Portland Denver. Michael was born September eighth of nineteen sixty two, and you guessed it Denver. At the time of his death, he just graduated from Golden High School and planned to enroll in community college at Denver's Red Rocks campus, but he was on a brief detour hitchhiking to Alaska. WHOA, Yeah, So I don't know why exactly. It's honestly, it's unclear. I've not been able to track down any information from the family confirming exactly why adventure. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, maybe, you know, he had a camera, so maybe he just really wanted to go there to be able to, you know, take the summer and do like nature photography.

14:41 Not sure. Wow, it's certainly a beautiful place to visit, but generally I just assumed that young men in this era in particular, would be going there to do the exact same thing that my dad and my uncles did back then. So I was like, Okay, he's obviously going up there. He's trying his hand and at making some money on a boat headed out on a commercial fishing expedition. Right. No, that is literally just an assumption that I made based on my own Uh. I mean, he seems pretty adventurous. Maybe that was like a thought someday he could do that. Yeah, I mean, who knows. I could have been both either or neither. But poor Larry, no one would know his identity for decades, not until this very year. He was a thirty year old Vietnam War veteran who had lost contact with his family at some point in the year prior to his murder. According to his family, his last known location was Pensacola, Florida. Michael O'Fallon, whose body was discovered near Exit two forty two to Talbot Road in Jefferson off I five within Marion County, would be followed just one day later by the discovery of another Larry Eugene Parks. On May fourteenth, nineteen eighty three, a call Ffornia Highway Patrol officer conducted a traffic stop, leading to the arrest of Randy Craft. At the time, there was another male occupant in Randy's vehicle. Uh oh uh

16:12 oh is correct, a deceased victim later identified as Terry Lee Gambrel. He had a dead person in his car when he died over. Sure did those freaking traffic stops, man, they'll get you. Yeah, they really do every time. I can't believe he had a fucking body in his car. Oh yeah, he was arranged in the front seat with multiple empty long necks and an open bottle of larazapam at his feet. So just beer bottles rattling around, and it's like you're not even trying to like hide anything at all, not really. I mean, he just didn't think he was gonna get stopped by what's highway patrol? What's this marzipan stuff? Larazapam?

16:55 Usually I think they used larazapam to treat like anxiety, so it's essentially like a sedative. Yeah, I feel like it was something that would like make you sleepy, but it wasn't exactly sure what it was. Yeah, when the rest of the vehicle was searched, police located what they described as a scorecard. It consisted of dozens of neatly printed monikers that have long been suspected to reference his victims. Obviously, like I said, he's denied this vehemently. Of course. They would also uncover over fifty photos that depicted young men in pornographic poses, most appearing to be asleep, perhaps incapacitated by intoxication, or worse yet, there are a number of them that they suspect the victims are actually dead in the photos. So my face is just doing the talking for me. Yep, that's about right. The heinous lore surrounding Randy Craft has led many to conjure ghoulish images of a bizarre boogeyman type character. This feels like a pretty good time to remind you, though, remind everyone that he really is just a sad excuse of a man.

18:14 Though it's certainly fair to say that he's a particularly sadistic one. Take it from retired homicide detective of the Orange County Sheriff's Department, Dan Salsado, who interviewed him back in twenty twelve. He said, it's weird when you look at him. There's nothing memorable. Frankly, I love that assessment for Randy, who is frequently also described as one of the most heinous serial killers in US history, or the embodiment of evil who. Salsato had already met the killer, dating back to his time prior to retirement, when he worked as a jail deputy in Orange County. He'd read the male inbound to the inmate and thought, really, that's the scorecard killer. He's completely unamused, truly utterly nonplussed.

19:15 I mean, the guy had to like freaking drug people to feel to murder them, so he's obviously not like that special. No, I mean it's not in terms of his stature. There's nothing that's like particularly intimidating about him, which actually I think is what gave him the advantage with a lot of these men. Unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, I could see that. Yeah, you don't feel threatened by somebody who doesn't feel like a physical match for you. I wonder what that's like. When the pair sat down in twenty twelve, Sosato was well aware that the man had remained on death row at San Quentin in relative silence, essentially running down the clock.

19:57 Their conversation was roughly thirty minutes and ultimately provided no new leads or insight. Honestly, it's impressive that he even got him to talk for the thirty minutes. Wow, not a long conversation, but other attempts have been far less successful. Craft had grumbled about being railroaded before wishing cancer on the lead prosecutor and investigator in his case. Jesus, you're gonna love this, though in reply, Salsato offered an update simply that they were both doing very well and living fulfilled lives. Was good. It was like snap. Salsato is convinced. Quote, there are some Craft related killings that are not solved, though Craft has never admitted to any of the killings, including the body of the deceased marine found in his car at the time of his arrest.

20:51 I'm holding that for a friend. M hm, what it's in your car? Yeah no. He's always claimed that that was like either some sort of an accident or yeah no, I mean he didn't have anything to do with it, of course, of course not. The nineteen seventies and eighties were a dangerous time, particularly for young hitchhikers, with multiple serial killers active throughout the country, but in southern California alone, Randy Craft, William Bonnan, and Patrick Kearney's horrific reigns overlapped for a brief period, and that's not a complete list.

21:31 I don't want any overlap with any of that. Yeah, thank you. And the reason why I'm only really talking about these three when there are certainly other killers that were active in the area at that time, is because at different times all three were conflated and referred to as the Freeway Killer because of similarities in their m oh. Law enforcement thought at one point before any of these guys was actual caught, that they were all the same person, all the same perpetrator. Wow, that would be crazy. Yeah, authorities believed when they caught Kearney in nineteen seventy seven they had their man, and yet crimes against similar victims using the same mo continued. Kearney, who was said to have been bullied in childhood and later surprisingly honorably discharged from the US Air Force following his service, would also be referred to as the trash back Killer owing to his method of disposal of his victims. His case was said to have been the inspiration of a Criminal Minds episode, as well as even being cited as spurring changes to trash disposal practices. Oh, I think in a way, there's a potential for some good there, right, at least if it has to happen, at least something else possibly good comes out of it, right, I mean, let's not lose people in a horrific way and then do nothing

23:02 to prevent, you know, the exact same thing from happening again. I'm curious what trash disposal practices they changed. Yeah, And I debated about kind of going into details on that. It was not as interesting as I had anticipated. So if you're curious, I definitely still linked to the information about it in my sources, but. I want to talk about trash damn it. That segment was cut for brevity. Once they captured Bonin in nineteen eighty, they believed that surely the freeway killer would no longer be a byline in the papers. And yet also those hopes proved unfounded.

23:47 Though he'd spent much of the nineteen seventies in and out of prison for sexually based offenses against other men, he had been paroled in nineteen seventy eight, only to continue with his crimes in an increasely brutal fashion as that decade began to draw to a close. Horrifyingly, he did not act alone. Some of the. Most gruesome crimes, in fact, were committed with the help of multiple accomplices. One died by suicide while awaiting trial, and another was himself killed in prison while serving his time. Wow, seems interesting that they both died. Yeah, let me tell you, it couldn't have happened to a nicer couple of guys, right.

24:30 Like, I'm not like upset about it. No, I know interesting. I do think that the one where he died by suicide, I have complicated feelings about that, just because he was never officially convicted, So I don't I mean, I have a hard time kind of grappling with that. But if he truly did kill himself though, so maybe yeah, I mean, who knows. I'm it's you no, no, no, no no no. Bonnin and his cronies proved to be capable of acting on the absolute worst of human impulses. Yet even his arrest did not entirely stem the tide of victims of a similar demographic and background being discovered along or nearby freeways. Then, in nineteen eighty three, there was the truly stunning arrest of Randy Kraft, and only then did this scenario seem to make more sense. Law enforcement was like, oh shit, this is like three whole ass serial killers, no wonder. Yeah, I mean, but you can't blame them because there really are some alarming similarities in terms of where and how they operated. And until they catch on that, like the crimes are continuing, of course, they are going to hope at least that you know, they've got the right person, and they did. They got multiple right someones they just weren't the only someone's did they all.

26:01 Like know about each other is that it's all just like a coincidence that they were the same type of murder in the same place. Yeah. I don't think that any of them had an awareness of each other, certainly at the time of actively committing the crimes. But it's kind of in hindsight that you know, you realize they're all operating in the same area. Say they not run into each other? How did they not try to kill each other? Yeah? I mean, unfortunately, California being a rather large state and the I five interstate being you know, long and winding, there's plenty of places to go plenty of people to pick up. Those suspicions have swirled for decades. There's no definitive evidence that either of Bonnan's serial killing colleagues worked with accomplices. So Bonnan actually has verified, convicted accomplices associated with his crimes, whereas Kearney and notably Craft, who is kind of our primary talking point today, they don't have confirmed accomplices. There are suspicions, but Craft is kind of the main character, if you will, Just because the victims that are more recently identified, law enforcement does believe that he may be connected to those cases. There were, however, some compelling details that if spurred speculation in the decades

27:36 since their arrest. For instance, starting off small, authorities believe that David Hill, a long term partner of Kearney, was perhaps aware of what his bow was up to, or possibly even involved in some of his crimes. It seems like I don't have a lot of information about why they believed that, if it was just because they're like, how could you not know or how could you not be involved? How could you have kept that under wraps unclear? There was DNA and other evidence to suggest that Craft may have worked with a partner or accomplice at some point during his horrific era of crime. During Craft's trial, members of the prosecution admitted privately that they did not charge him with several murders that they were certain he had committed because of facts relating to the cases which indicated more than one perpetrator.

28:33 Oh so they like were pretty confident someone else is involved. Were they like saving it in case they caught that person. That's one thing that I think people have speculated about. I think in a case where you think there may have been multiple parties involved, it could be more difficult to actually secure the conviction when you only have one of the perpetrators. I think there's a number of reasons why that may have been their decision. Yeah, that makes sense. Jeff Graves, a former romantic interest of Craft, was a strong suspect, but authorities failed to make a case against him prior to his passing in nineteen eighty seven of aids.

29:15 It was a prosecution's position that Graves may have assisted in several of Craft's murders. He lived with. Craft between nineteen seventy one and nineteen seventy six. Importantly, these were the handful of years when the sixteen confirmed murders occurred. Oh okay, so they're like, you lived with this man for five years, and that's when all sixteen of the murders that he was actually convicted of, when those happened. Mmm, Luksausis Yeah, yeah, I mean I hate to say, like maybe he didn't know, maybe he was totally innocent, but. Well, totally possible hold that thought. Graves was specifically questioned in relation to the cropwell case dating back to nineteen seventy five, and even verified a portion of Craft's statement to police. Graves reportedly told investigators following Craft's arrest in nineteen eighty three, quote, I'm really not going to pay for it, you know, seemingly alluding to his at the time terminal diagnosis. Oh wow. He passed on July twenty seventh, nineteen eighty seven, effectively concluding further questioning that authorities had in store.

30:36 You mean, they didn't ask like a medium to come in. Honestly, the other side, I feel like it's worth considering. I mean, it's funny that he maybe thinks he's not paying for it, but I certainly hope that he is paying for it. Yeah, in his afterlife. Absolutely well, and here's the thing is, at that point in time, really was it really was a death sentence because there was no effective treatment. But there was a four year gap essentially between Randy's arrest and his passing. So it goes to show like how slowly sometimes. I mean, it's it's a slow burn in these cases. But you know, I mean, if you're trying to get the right guy and you are trying to back it up in evidence, I mean, it makes sense.

31:28 These things take time. Can you imagine being innocent and having to wait that long? Yeah, I mean, and that's something to think about as well. I mean, you know, not that this person was, but I'm just like, we don't, you know, I don't know if we'll ever know. Yeah. So the former of Crafts suspected accomplices may not have outlived the speculation a petty criminal. Bob Jackson also underwent much speculation after he was interviewed by a journalist conducting research into Randy Craft's case. Oh shit, I watch out for them journalists. Them journalis maybe asking all kinds of questions. Yeah. His recorded interviews were provided to police, as they should be. Yeah. Yeah.

32:17 As compelling as the accounts of murder said you have occurred in. Colorado and Wyoming. May have initially seemed they were kind of Ultimately they were reportedly not seriously pursued just due to a lack of evidence. Those detectives that interviewed Jackson were able to convince him to seek mental health treatment. So probably a good thing, a little bit of a bright spot in that. And they're like the fact that you want to be outed as the accomplice and you seemingly like knew this person and had details about possible murders, like huh, you should probably see someone about that friend, Yeah, yeah, yeah, hikes.

33:02 Jackson also claimed that Kraft's scorecard included only his more memorable murders. In Jackson's opinion, Kraft's total body counts stood closer to one hundred. Oh. I know, it's giving a lot of ick and like the fact that you don't even record some of them because they're like, eh, wasn't memorable, right, It's a fucking human life night. Well, if that's the angle that you want to take, I just feel like that's fallen on deaf ears. No, it's just gross. It is. After decades of silence, the truths buried by monstrous serial killers like Randy Craft, Patrick Kearney, and William Bonnen, along with their confirmed or suspected accomplices, are finally beginning to surface, one name at a time. The identifications of Larry Eugene Parks and Michael Ray are more than breakthroughs in forensic science.

34:04 They are hard won moments of justice and remembrance. The identification alone should give us hope, even if law enforcement has yet to tie the victims to their killer. As new technology continues to breathe life into cold cases, it also reaffirms just how many questions remain unanswered, So. Many fucking questions. I truthfully, though, really Craft sits on death Row, never having confessed his so called scorecard, still haunting investigators with its cryptic entries and the chilling possibility of many more unnamed victims. But with every advancement in genetic genealogy and continued investigative persistence, the hope remains that those who were once unknown might still realize an opportunity for justice, and that those who left a trail of terror in their wake might yet see retribution.

35:06 Fucking science, man, fucking science really cool. I think it really is. Yeah, it really is I can't wait for like even the future, future future where it's like not even a question where they can just solve something from like the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, I agree. Just a note about the Oregon State Police Cold Case Unit. The unit has made tangible progress on cases as old as fifty years. That's so cool. It's incredible. And as of the time of publication, so I think this is this article is probably dating back to April, it might be May of this year, twenty twenty five, they are actively investigating thirty seven cold cases.

35:57 Wow, which actually seems low. But I'm going to give it to them that It's like, the cold cases are intense. There's a lot that can have to go into that unless they get lucky with like a DNA match. I was gonna say, I feel like that sounds like a good amount of Yeah, because it's a cold case. It's like there's not obviously it's cold for a reason, like it's not. I do, yeah, I do think that there's just so much work that sometimes has to go into that because I mean, they there's a reason why they haven't been solved, right, So it's like it takes that much more manpower to finally break through. Hey, we've offered our manpower before you. I'll take us podcasters up on helping, right. They're like, no, thing's not interested. Yeah.

36:42 I do have some other Patreon exclusive content related to this case because I could not help myself, and I do think I have some stuff that I want to share that's actually direct from one of the victim's family members. It's not something they didn't reach out to us specifically, but it's information and statements that they've given to other outlets that I felt like it was a really interesting reflection. It's sort of an opinion piece that came out several years ago. I want to share that in some other titty biddy's. Trash information trash, No, the trash. I was like, how. Dare you critique my Patreon bonus. It's a human literal trash. Okay, I literally want to know the trash. I know she wants to know more about the trash. Well, maybe at the end of our little Patreon bonus, we can pull up that trash article and I can read that to you too.

37:38 Okay, Okay, well should we do some taro about it. Let's do it thinking about mister Crap's victims craps with a K. When I started researching this, it was all because of and then I started looking and I was like, holy shit, there are two other victims that like decades old, have in the last couple of years been identified. That's so cool. It's really cool. And you know, not all of them have been. Definitively tied to Craft or to any other killer, but just the fact that now they're finally identified. Yeah, And you know, I mentioned that it's like there are people that you may have been born and never met this relative of theirs. And there was kind of a short excerpt in one of my articles that I used as source material that talked about they reached out to a family member and they couldn't figure out, well who might be missing, and so then it was the grandparents. They reached out to other family members, and turns out they didn't really have an awareness around somebody who had been out of contact with everybody else in the family for years.

39:02 Like how would you know? Yeah, because you're thinking, like, especially as grandparents, you're like everybody's busy, you know, we don't hear from this person, but like we also haven't been alerted to any sort of a problem or you know, how would you know. I mean, you'd like to think that families stay closer than that, but sometimes distance and you know, lives are busy. Sometimes you just don't fucking like your family. Also, okay, you don't have to like your family. You know, it's not. And I just say that from the perspective of like you'd like to think that someone would notice, you know what I mean, but like if you're not in touch, of course, it's you know, to a degree, some of this stuff.

39:44 It's not to like blame anybody, you know. It's it's just it's heartbreaking to see where somebody kind of falls through the cracks. Yeah. I had a thought when you were talking about people dying before, like maybe other family members were even bored and like not even knowing what happened. And I just watched a movie on Netflix about that. Really yeah. I can't think of what it's called, but it was really good and I have to look it up. Okay. Time cut. Oh, there's like a time travel thing and it's on the preview. I'm not really like ruining anything, okay, okay, but she like goes back in time to where her sister Pat was like murdered and it's two thousand and seven. Oh, it's like, oh fucking vibe like wow, yeah, you'll love it, You'll love it. Wow.

40:27 Okay, okay, I guess we know what I'm doing later today. Yep, watch it if you were a two thousand and seven girly, like, uh. Yeah, it's so weird how I can be a two thousand and seven girly and then also still be remarkably like twenty what do we decide twenty eight? Right? Yes? Yeah, I mean I'm I could stall say I'm forty already, let's go, let's get there. No. Actually, it's better to be honest about your age because if you lie and people are like, oh god, you're twenty eight, I don't think though. Wait that's why I'm like, I'll say forty so everyone be like, holy shit, you look amazing. You're forty. You're like aging backwards Benjamin Button.

41:10 Okay, where do we feel the vibe in the car? Like in this direction? Like I just guide your fingers with my mind? Yeah, like are we is this too far over? I'm feeling like kind of somewhere in here. No, I feel like that area. Yeah okay, oh boy, I like that one for us. Okay, I can let you vana. Was it upside down? It was, Oh, we've gotten this one before too, Ton of Swords in reverse it was yeah, bones, This obviously always reminds me of like a cold case because it's just like just the bones. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna say, I feel like Swords is always kind of a vibe with with my cases in particular. Okay, so I still have a page to turn here to get to the Ten of Swords. At the bottom of the Night of Swords, there's an extra excerpt and holy shit, ooh it's a quote there are very few monsters who warrant the fear we have of them.

42:11 Wow. That literally we talked about that. Yeah, although I will say like all three of these serial killers are in a way it's like, yeah, I mean be fearful of them because wow, horrific. But also again, they are just dudes, and not even like they're they're really awful dudes. Piece just a shock, just pieces. Shit. This also could look like maybe the side of like a California highway or it does. It looks like the desert a little bit. Yeah, Okay, so are keywords for the Ten of Swords are exhaustion, giving up, betrayal, pain and sadness reversed. The ton of swords suggests you're unwilling to take the steps that will move you to a better place. Perhaps you're deceiving yourself or you're stalling due to fear. But delaying only makes things worse. Stop making excuses and choose the course of action. Okay, can I just say right off the top, And I don't know, maybe as we read on this will not fit as well as I'm thinking.

43:17 But this really makes me think of Randy Kraft and he has just maintained silence. It's just deny, deny, deny. He's admitted to nothing. He takes zero responsibility for anything. And it just feels like stop making excuses, like you're It's like he's like delaying the inevitable in the sense that it's like listen, dude, they're gonna find out if there are more I mean, he's on death row, so there's not a whole lot more we can do to him. But at this. Point with him well right, and you know, fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you feel about the death penalty, he's unlikely, very unlikely to act be put to death. He will probably spend the rest of his natural life awaiting death, which I actually feel like in some cases is truthfully the most appropriate punishment.

44:12 If you confess and you're already on death row, if you finally confess to it, would they kill you or would they. Just it's not going to it's not going to expedite, you know, for him in execution or anything, because it doesn't have to do with the severity of his crimes. On the West Coast, California is one of many states that has not for decades really executed people. Right, they're essentially kind of in a whole day, they're in purgatory. Oh man, Oh that's fucking worse. Dude, though. I think between California, Oregon, and Washington, I think Washington is the state that has most recently executed someone, and it's almost fifteen years ago, seems Yeah, that's my record, just going straight off the top of my head.

45:04 Washington, you're off the rails. Yeah, they're the wild card. Apparently they put the W and P and W Washington wild card. Oh I love that for us. So did you have something else or should I do the bullet points? Oh? I don't think so. I mentioned the word like delay, and I was like, oh, like it to fifty years too, right. I know that that's immediately what I was kind of thinking of in a reading about money. The reverse ten can represent a time of recovery after hardship or loss. A new cycle is beginning, and better times may wait around the corner, but you must take the first step.

45:45 I think they've taken it. I feel like that that just reminds me of like they're going to find more people with the DNA evidence. Yeah. No, And all of this technology is becoming you know, more mainstream, and as it's utilized more readily, it will become less hopefully expensive, because I think that is a factor. You know, they want to solve cold cases, but you know, when it's possible that you know the killer or the victim's family members, it's very possible that with some cases, if you're going that far back, everybody that was involved truthfully you know directly, they may no longer be with us. Yeah, and sometimes you have to weigh the public good with you know, the funds that you're utilizing, which I mean, it's a sad reality.

46:37 Yeah, but there's a lot of murders and yeah, might want to solve the more recent ones first, or people who are still struggling. Or people that could directly be in danger because this killer is like very much still active potentially. I mean, that's a real it's a shit decision to have to to have to make. Really, thank god we don't have to make it. I know I wouldn't. I mean, I just be like, we're over budget again. I'm not explaining it, Get the fuck over it. If the reading is about your job, you still feel insecure about your future, but in order to get to a more satisfactory place, you'll have to take a risk. Stop letting the past prevent you from embracing new possibilities. I don't know why, but I feel like this ties back to me for the now retired detective.

47:29 He was retired at the point that he went and interviewed Craft in twenty twelve, and I think he knew it was kind of a shot in the dark type of a you know, I'm just gonna shoot my shot. Yeah, so I can't help, But wonder if you know, there's a little bit of like, you know, I'm just gonna take the chance, and like maybe nothing comes from it, but nothing happens when you don't try. Yeah, you never know, Like it takes like one person, one different personality to bring something out. Yeah, that's really true. And he did talk to him more than the like other people, right with that. Yeah yeah, and actually in the Patreon bonus you'll see like the dramatic difference. I think the passage of time also plays a really big role. In the time more closely associated with his arrest and incarceration, his responses may have been entirely different to more recently ultimately still the same in that like he's copping to absolutely nothing, but he's perhaps a little bit more perceptive to conversations.

48:32 So probably misses the attention. Yes, I have to assume. I have to assume in a reading about love, you may still be smarting from a deception, disappointment, or betrayal, but at least you can see more clearly now if a relationship has ended, you may experience a new sense of freedom. Fuck yeah, okay, this is kind of dark. But for Craft, the one suspected possible leged accomplice that was his ex lover that has since passed. Think about that. If a relationship ends because that person's life ends, you're like, oh, Okay, he's never going to give up any of my secrets now he can't, damn. I mean he went a good long stretch after the arrest without really spelling the beans.

49:22 But I mean no, I wonder like why they broke up too, Like what what betrayals and secrets did they have together in their relationship that just couldn't hold it together? Yeah? Well, I have to wonder if the only thing that really separated them was the fact that he was arrested. It doesn't seem like it, because it seems like they lived together for the handful of years when he was active, right, But I don't know. Yeah, it does. It begs the question, like what happened there? I'd like to know more about that. The hot goss, Yeah, people still say that the super gross. Yeah, like hot garbage goss. Yeah. Oh my gosh, hot garbage goss. I love it. I want that on a T shirt.

50:09 I think that's what we name the Patreon bonusge hot garbage goss. I don't know if you have this keyword in yours, but in the Little P ANDW deck book, one of them is bitterness. Oh, it didn't specifically mention bitterness. I don't think, but let me go back. I'm gonna it makes me kind of think of him, like still refusing to talk about it is bitter that she doesn't get to keep score anymore. I don't know. Yeah, No, it doesn't specifically mention bitterness, but I feel like there's an undercurrent of that. It's like part of the vibe. Or it could even be like the families of the unsolved. Oh boy, like the bitterness.

50:50 Yeah, I feel like, and not that you can blame anyone in this case, but the bitterness will get to that in the Patreon bonus. So it's picking up something here, Yeah, it's catching Okay. It says someone has to lose. Why not? You? Life has to end eventually? Why not? Now? Every cycle has an upturn and a downturn. Defeat is natural. There is no shame in giving into it. There's dignity and its acceptance. At least, it's easy to say that when every step is agony, When the sun, having already stolen every ounce of moisture, continues to take more in California. Yeah, when failure is not merely an option but an inevitability, So you collapse and given wilfully or still fighting it doesn't matter.

51:41 If you're lucky, you'll still be part of the cycle when it turns upward again. But definitely just yeah, cold cases, when you collapse and given willfully or still fighting, it doesn't matter if you're lucky, You'll still be part of the cycle when it turns upward again. Yeah, in fifty years. It is really just yeah, I mean that. Really is like it's like the cycle, right, It's like, I don't know, coma gonna get you? Yeah, yeah, even if you're dead and you think you don't have to pay. For it, oh my gosh, or if you think you're well if I was gonna say, even if you think you're dead but you are dead, but you're Yeah, even if you know it's a victim, that's that's past, and you know you think maybe it's like is this person ever going to see justice?

52:30 Yeah? Hopefully hopefully. Yeah. I mean I really, I really get excited about these cases. And this is like so fresh. I didn't stumble on it like right away in April, so I was it was like a mad dash to really like do the research. And thankfully I think maybe I caught it at kind of the right time where enough different sources had kind of come through with Oh, you know, it wasn't just the one unidentified. It's like I was able to really like pool all of the resources talking about recent developments, and then the fact that there are the parallels in some of these cases and multiple of them.

53:20 There's some synchronicities there that are just really strange. Yeah, should we should we go do. Some fun stuff? We might do? You know, we might do some fun tarot for some fun. Yeah, Okay, I guess, because you know, I don't. I don't know if you guys know, but we sort of sim I missed our anniversary actually technically, Oh, it's like it's the twenty fifth. It was the twenty second. Yeah, I thought it was the twenty third. Twenty second. Oh okay, either way, have a creepy day, See Mike. See you next Tuesday. Yeah, someone will be there to greet you in our feed. Someone will always be there, don't you guys worry? Yeah, solve all the cold cases, do it. I'd like to think I would never fall through cracks, but it's possible.

54:16 Are you thinking? Because your butt because it's so small,