Episode 96: Cal Coburn Brown Part 2

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Have a safe stay.

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And I hear them call me by my name.

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So I run into the kitchen to check and there's nobody there.

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And I start to like hear like my closet door start to open.

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All of a sudden for no reason I woke up in the middle of the night.

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My eyes just snapped open and it's that strange feeling that you have when something wakes

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you up.

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And you don't know what has woken you up until you either see what it was or you hear

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whatever it was.

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If you like all things spooky, check out as espooky tales.

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We, Cristina and MJ talk about all things espooky.

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And we'll talk about the haunted places, myths and legends.

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With the focus on Latin America, new episodes every Friday.

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Listen in your favorite podcast apps as well as espookytales.com.

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You guys were back.

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And don't worry, we did get more wine.

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Well, of course.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, creepy people.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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Hello, out there.

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What show is this again?

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PNW Haunts and Homicides.

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Oh, my.

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We're going to get through the worst parts pretty quickly.

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And then we'll just get to talk about stuff that's--

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it's not as bad.

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OK.

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I think.

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Yeah.

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Like I remember.

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And then we get to do a tarot reading.

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So it's all going to be good-ish in the end.

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Yeah.

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Cassie does her editing magic, makes me sound like a genius.

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Everyone lives happily ever after.

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I bedazzle the fuck out of you.

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Oh, boy.

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Apparently, I need to be bedazzled.

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So much so that if you met Caitlyn in real life,

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you'd be like, who am I talking to?

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Do you think--

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No.

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Do you think they were confused when they met me at PNW

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True Crime Fest?

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I thought you were like, do you think?

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Oh.

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I mean, it's a serious question.

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No.

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OK.

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You were an eloquent, beautiful speaker.

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We didn't edit one bit of the live from PNW True Crime Fest.

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That's true.

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That was all natural.

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Yeah.

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I'm kind of like a rock where either--

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you just apply an extreme amount of pressure.

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And I'm either just crushed into 1,000 shards.

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Or I become something stronger.

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Or--

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Like a diamond.

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She's like the rock, and she raises one of her eyebrows.

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I do do that.

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I'm doing it right now.

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I was sitting on that joke ever since she said rock.

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And I was like giggling to myself like, he--

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I was like rocks are not that funny, Cassie.

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Oh, boy.

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Anyway.

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Well, I mean, we tried.

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We kept it light-hearted for a minute there.

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All right.

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Part two of Cal Coburn Brown.

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Agreed.

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On Memorial Day, May 27 of 1991,

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the King County Police discovered the body of a 21-year-old woman

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Ms. Holly C. Washa in the trunk of her 1985

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Blue.

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Automobile parked in space 266 of a budget park and ride

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lot near the Seattle Tacoma Airport.

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Because, of course, by then, they

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had received a telephone call from the detectives

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in Palm Springs.

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Holly was found wearing a leather jacket that

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was covered in blood with a strap of her purse around her neck.

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In fact, by this time, the strap had

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managed to work its way into one of the deep slash wounds

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on her neck.

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No.

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I know that's probably the worst part

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of the description of her body when she was discovered.

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Yeah.

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I don't like it.

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Cal would reveal that he moved the vehicle

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after realizing that Holly's blood was

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beginning to spill out from the trunk of her vehicle.

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Well, yeah, I wonder why that was happening.

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Yeah.

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Funny how that will happen when you slit someone's throat

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and leave them in a trunk.

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And stab them how many times?

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I'm not even sure.

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That's a really--

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Yeah.

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No, I mean, it's--

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Apparently, the spot that he moved the vehicle to

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before hopping on his flight to meet Susan,

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he assumed her blood would be washed away by the Seattle rain.

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Yeah, I--

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Yeah.

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I deeply, deeply hate that.

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On June 11, of 1991, in the King County Superior

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Court, Cal Cobra and Brown was charged with aggravated murder

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in the first degree.

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He was arraigned on February 26 of 1992.

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A notice to determine whether the death penalty should be imposed

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was filed on March 24, 1992.

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The trial itself began with jury selection

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on October 25 of the following year, 1993.

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It's like crazy to see how this just

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drags out over already multiple cares.

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Yeah.

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When he so clearly did it, and he admitted

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to the other one, it still druged out that long.

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Yeah.

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We're looking at June of '91 to October of '93.

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And that's just when the trial is beginning.

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Wow.

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And he applied guilty to everything, right?

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There wasn't--

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Well, I mean, the tough thing about it

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is that you complete guilty and still

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be trying to position yourself in a way

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that lessens your sentence.

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And depending on the situation, that might look differently.

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But the thing that's tough for me is,

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we get a lot of case suggestions or people sending us

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news updates about cases that are not yet at trial.

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And a lot of times, you can't publicly

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access information about what's happened in the case

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up to that point.

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And sadly, unless I just become an investigative journalist,

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I can't really do much with those until we have a little bit more.

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Yeah.

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Well, what are you doing with your life over there

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than you do with the month?

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I'm going to go to law school.

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OK.

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What?

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Like it's hard.

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The guilt phase of court testimony

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began following the Thanksgiving holiday on November 30th.

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Happy holidays.

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On December 10th of 1993, the jury

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returned a verdict of guilty of premeditated murder

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in the first degree, finding that Cal

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committed the murder to conceal commission of a crime

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or to protect or conceal his identity

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and found aggravating circumstances

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of robbery in the first or second degree,

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rape in the first or second degree,

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and kidnapping in the first degree as well.

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And that takes us to the penalty phase of the trial, which

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began on December 15th of 1993.

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Seriously.

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What a way to live in up the holidays.

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Yeah, right.

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Just-- it's a lot.

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What do you mean they can't really pause?

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Because it's like, oh, it's the holiday season we can't try

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to be the murder.

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Yeah.

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No, I mean, it's kind of serious.

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So we just kind of have to keep on chugging

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lugging through, but--

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Yeah.

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I do feel bad for anybody that that is kind of thrust upon them.

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Yeah.

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Well, like the judge and the lawyers and all the jurors--

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during that time.

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I mean, more so for the jurors, because that's not

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what they do in their everyday lives.

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Where is the judge and the lawyers,

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while it may not always be a case that's quite the spurtle,

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they're always working in the legal system, in the court system.

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There's some tenuous string to at least the processes

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and all of that.

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Think about it.

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As a juror, you're having to learn how every piece of this system

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works.

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And then also, apparently, you're probably

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sending other relatives out to do your Christmas shopping.

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Oh, yeah.

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You're a bit tied up.

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So I know.

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First world problems, I get it.

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But I'm just saying it's a tough situation

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to be in from so many different angles.

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Yeah.

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That's all.

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Yeah.

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It's not a competition.

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Yeah.

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The suffering Olympics.

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It's where no one wins.

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Right.

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Then on December 27th of 1993--

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again, seriously, just two days after Christmas, like--

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Wow.

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It's just a lot.

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It's a lot.

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Do you think they had Christmas off?

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Oh, I'm sure they do.

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Yeah, federal courts, you are relieved of duty, I'm sure,

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for all of those major holidays.

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So just two days after Christmas,

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the jury returned a verdict finding

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there were not sufficient mitigating circumstances

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to merit leniency.

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That sounds good.

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Yeah, it does, right?

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I wasn't quite sure how you would react to that,

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because I thought you might go, wait, what part

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of this whole process are--

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Where are we at?

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What's happening?

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Your words confuse me, Haylon.

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It is a good thing, potentially.

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Some people may be upset by this.

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But not these two today.

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Yeah, not today.

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Not today, Satan.

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So we're in the sentencing phase at this point, penalty

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phase.

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I love it when I can find something that

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00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,400
buttons up the court proceedings with a summary that

273
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,520
kind of incorporates somehow both the legal jargon

274
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,840
that my nerd brain craves, but isn't completely obtuse.

275
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,560
Yeah.

276
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,800
And I just have to say that at this point in my research

277
00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,320
for the case, the dopamine was severely lacking.

278
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,200
And being able to read it and then spell it out for you guys

279
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,080
like this kind of restored the juice.

280
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,920
Good.

281
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:59,200
On January 28, 1994, the death sentence was imposed.

282
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,360
What?

283
00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,320
I know.

284
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:03,880
And she's like, I actually knew that.

285
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:04,960
I didn't know that.

286
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,840
But still, when I read it, I was shocked.

287
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,360
Yeah.

288
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,360
Because you don't hear that a lot around here,

289
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,200
especially this recently, like in the '90s, you know?

290
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,520
Well, we think of--

291
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,520
I knew the '90s.

292
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:16,320
--the '90s were recent.

293
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,160
They were.

294
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,160
Yeah.

295
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,120
Well, in terms of when you're talking about precedence

296
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:22,840
being set--

297
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:23,400
Yeah.

298
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,000
--because the legal system obviously is quite a bit older

299
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,360
than we are.

300
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,720
So recent is-- it's all relative.

301
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,520
So I mean, I take your meaning.

302
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,680
Yeah.

303
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,800
I'm not old.

304
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,080
Yeah.

305
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,280
We're basically infants.

306
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,200
In the '90s.

307
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:41,960
Yeah.

308
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,480
Yeah.

309
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,680
Yeah, in the '90s, when his legal team

310
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,600
would later appeal his sentence with a Supreme Court

311
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,160
of Washington, the following opinion

312
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,640
was returned in July of 1997, stating,

313
00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,000
a balance death sentence is not disproportionate

314
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,360
when his criminal history is considered.

315
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,440
His record includes prior convictions

316
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:15,680
for assault with a deadly weapon, grand theft,

317
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,600
attempted assault in the first degree, assault

318
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,000
in the second degree, attempted murder in the first degree,

319
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:31,600
aggravated mayhem, torture, false imprisonment,

320
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,120
and robbery in the first degree.

321
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,760
His criminal record shows a history of violence towards others.

322
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,440
His criminal history is comparatively more extensive

323
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:50,000
than that of other appellans who received the death penalty.

324
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,320
And this is important.

325
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,760
OK.

326
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,440
For his final meal, Cal Coburn Brown had a combination

327
00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,640
pizza and apple pie with both coffee and milk.

328
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:10,320
Of course, his last meal isn't how we're going to end this story

329
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,200
because he also had a few things to say.

330
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,400
I don't care.

331
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,240
What kind of pizza did he have?

332
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,200
Combination.

333
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,720
I know, but from where?

334
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,760
I don't know.

335
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,600
You really want to hone in on the pizza?

336
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,040
I hate that they get to choose their last meal.

337
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,440
I don't give a fuck.

338
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,280
Yeah.

339
00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,960
Have cold oatmeal.

340
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:34,480
Yeah.

341
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,720
You know, when there's not quite enough water,

342
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,360
so it's actually kind of undercooked,

343
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,920
do they even need to eat?

344
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,400
Like, where they're going?

345
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,800
Do they need sustenance?

346
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,200
Probably not.

347
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,600
He spoke just prior to his execution.

348
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,280
I understand your feelings and your hatred for me.

349
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,200
For the actions I took against your daughter and sister.

350
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,920
I hope the actions that you've done

351
00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,240
are not what you're going to do.

352
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:10,760
I hope the actions taken tonight give you the closure you seek.

353
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:17,600
Looking toward the witnesses, he acknowledged the anger of Washa's family,

354
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,640
but did not apologize.

355
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:28,240
Brown complained about sentencing disparities,

356
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,840
citing the case of Green River Killer Gary L. Ridgeway,

357
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,680
who was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of 48 women

358
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,160
after he cooperated with authorities.

359
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:49,600
And why, too, Tony, who could someday be released from prison

360
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:55,560
despite his role in the deaths of 13 people in Seattle's 1983

361
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,720
Wami Massacre.

362
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,400
Oh.

363
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:07,000
He went on to state, I only killed one victim.

364
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,560
I cannot really see that there is true justice,

365
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:19,320
hopefully sometime in the future, that gets straightened out.

366
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,200
When he was done, Brown said, thank you.

367
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,160
God bless you and God bless my family.

368
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,240
Thank you.

369
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:33,760
I guess.

370
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:34,260
I guess.

371
00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:35,880
Thank you for letting him speak.

372
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:36,400
Yeah.

373
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:37,080
I guess so.

374
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,280
Yeah.

375
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,680
The Supreme Court has already said your criminal history

376
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:48,120
is comparatively more extensive than that of other appellans

377
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,120
who received the death penalty.

378
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:56,200
And listen, I have some complicated feelings about the death penalty.

379
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,920
I think a lot of us do.

380
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,400
Yeah.

381
00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,200
Kal, I'm pretty sure you did it.

382
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,680
And I'm pretty sure that I want you to die for it.

383
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,560
It was fucked up.

384
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,320
But I mean, I do see his point.

385
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,160
Like, he did only kill one person.

386
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,800
So, like, you know, it's no 48.

387
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,800
Unfortunately.

388
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,800
I mean, sarcastic.

389
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,280
Everybody just so everybody knows.

390
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:40,000
Unfortunately, in these situations, what we run into is individuals like Ridgeway have

391
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:51,000
unfortunately by virtue of the volume, the number, I mean, absolutely overwhelming number

392
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,920
of victims that he has.

393
00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:04,000
It affords him a bargaining chip because there are so many where bodies haven't been recovered

394
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:13,520
or they may not be able to give the family answers unless he's willing to talk.

395
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:14,520
Yeah.

396
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:25,320
And I hate to say this, but in some respects, it rewards serial killers.

397
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,200
If you think about it in that way.

398
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,200
Yeah.

399
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:37,320
I hate everything about this case and about Ridgeway, but just to look at it very coldly,

400
00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,400
very logically, it's unfortunate.

401
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,280
He could have killed Susan though.

402
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,720
It is attempted murder.

403
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,720
Yeah.

404
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,120
I don't think that he didn't intend to kill her.

405
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,920
He's let her throw.

406
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:59,240
Yeah, to think what he would have done.

407
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,240
Yeah.

408
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,240
I don't want to.

409
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,000
No, I mean, we've already talked about it with Holly and there's no doubt in my mind

410
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:19,320
that where things stopped with Susan is by happenstance.

411
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:27,640
Unlike Holly's horrific ordeal, Cal Coburn Brown was dead roughly 90 seconds after being

412
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:36,280
intravenously administered the five grams of sodium thio-pental.

413
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:43,000
Cal's legal team and numerous private citizens spoke up against the use of capital punishment

414
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,760
as a moral and ethical issue.

415
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:55,320
In fact, his legal team had once argued that the state's three drug method of lethal injection,

416
00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:03,640
which is a combination of an anesthetic, a paralyzer, and a heart attack inducing drug,

417
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:10,560
constituted cruel and unusual punishment and was prone to error, resulting in an ultimately

418
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:18,440
temporary stay of execution from the state Supreme Court.

419
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,680
Did they argue this before or after?

420
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,680
Before.

421
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:23,680
Okay.

422
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:24,680
But they still have.

423
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,680
That's how he got the state of execution.

424
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,680
Okay.

425
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,360
Yeah.

426
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:36,220
In July of 2010, the state switched to a singular drug method for execution, making it one

427
00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:42,260
of only two states to use the method, the other being Ohio.

428
00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:48,020
And of course, making the legal argument that kept him alive some additional months no longer

429
00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:56,340
valid reasoning to further delay his execution, at least legally speaking.

430
00:22:56,340 --> 00:23:01,060
If you don't like the three drug method and we switched to one, you're going to have to

431
00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:08,140
find some peer reviewed studies that take issue with a single drug method to get another

432
00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:11,260
stay of execution.

433
00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:18,360
Brown's execution marked the first time the state has used a single drug method of execution.

434
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:23,380
He was a 78th man to be executed in Washington.

435
00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:30,340
And to date, Cal Coburn Brown was the last person executed in the state of Washington.

436
00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:33,340
Well, that is crazy.

437
00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:34,340
That is crazy.

438
00:23:34,340 --> 00:23:35,340
Yeah.

439
00:23:35,340 --> 00:23:39,860
It was crazy to me that he was the first to use that method.

440
00:23:39,860 --> 00:23:40,860
Yeah.

441
00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:43,260
But then also he was the last.

442
00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:44,260
Yeah.

443
00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:45,260
I know.

444
00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:55,100
It's kind of a momentous sort of occurrence, which feels a little bit odd to say, but it

445
00:23:55,100 --> 00:24:01,980
looks as though he may end up being the final execution as governor J. Inzley issued a

446
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:08,420
moratorium on executions in 2014.

447
00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:17,900
But let's address something about this case that particularly angered me.

448
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:25,660
In order to do so, we just need to time travel back to 1984.

449
00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:26,660
Okay.

450
00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:28,940
Just real quick.

451
00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:35,220
Back then he was a freshman at Oregon State University and had been introduced to a woman

452
00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:39,340
with two young sons by her babysitter.

453
00:24:39,340 --> 00:24:40,340
Oh.

454
00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:42,100
Okay.

455
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:48,020
He showed up at the woman's home wearing a hat and backpack.

456
00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:56,140
He persuaded her to let him rest what he claimed was a sprained leg.

457
00:24:56,140 --> 00:25:05,140
When she turned her head to call him a cab, he attempted to choke her using like a leather

458
00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:07,620
strap type device.

459
00:25:07,620 --> 00:25:08,620
Geez.

460
00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:12,020
Was it from the backpack?

461
00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:15,140
He may have had it stored in the backpack.

462
00:25:15,140 --> 00:25:16,140
Yeah.

463
00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:23,180
It's sort of an unusual incident.

464
00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:26,580
The whole thing is very bizarre.

465
00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:34,380
Later she would state that she rolled to her side and saw him wild eyed staring into her

466
00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:35,380
face.

467
00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:36,380
Ooh.

468
00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:45,220
Luckily, a nearby police officer heard her screams and was able to place cow under

469
00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:47,580
arrest.

470
00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:55,980
Now these next two statements I wouldn't say are fun facts by any stretch, but I literally

471
00:25:55,980 --> 00:26:02,460
can't decide which one is scarier.

472
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:09,660
Police found a large knife and a roll of two inch wide duct tape in his backpack.

473
00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:10,660
No.

474
00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:15,260
He had a murder kit.

475
00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:25,380
And number two, the woman's two small sons were home during the attack.

476
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:27,420
That's terrifying.

477
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:31,540
Like, what was he going to do to all of them?

478
00:26:31,540 --> 00:26:36,820
I mean, maybe he had no idea that the kids were even there, you know, depending on the time

479
00:26:36,820 --> 00:26:40,340
of day and how much he knew about her.

480
00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:45,660
He may have assumed she was home alone, which might make it worse if he startled my children.

481
00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:48,140
What's he going to do?

482
00:26:48,140 --> 00:26:51,700
I just...

483
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:54,500
It could have been so much worse.

484
00:26:54,500 --> 00:27:00,780
It's horrific, but it could have been so much worse.

485
00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:07,500
Calcoburn Brown was sentenced as a dangerous offender for this attempted assault in Corvallis

486
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:09,580
Oregon.

487
00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:16,620
But now we're going to see just how far back there's clear evidence of a violent pattern.

488
00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:24,140
The type that almost without exception will continue to escalate.

489
00:27:24,140 --> 00:27:32,820
He already had an extensive criminal record, including a 1977 conviction in California

490
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:39,100
that involved a knife assault on a woman in a shopping center.

491
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:44,500
Cal served the minimum seven and a half year sentence for the Oregon attempted assault

492
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,620
conviction.

493
00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:55,580
And he was released on parole from the Oregon State Penitentiary on March 25, 1991, after

494
00:27:55,580 --> 00:28:01,660
receiving a favorable psychiatric evaluation.

495
00:28:01,660 --> 00:28:08,540
He had been sentenced to 15 years after being convicted of first degree assault, but was

496
00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:12,660
released after serving about half the time.

497
00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:13,660
I hate that.

498
00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:14,660
It's great.

499
00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:16,060
I always hate that.

500
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:23,740
Fantastic, why? Following his release, Cal was placed under the supervision of a parole

501
00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:31,340
officer, who specialized in the supervision of sex offenders. The parole officer was given

502
00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:36,940
a letter from the district attorney who had prosecuted Brown on the dangerous offender

503
00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:43,820
case. In the letter, the DA stated that not only did he consider Brown to be one of the

504
00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:53,420
most dangerous criminals whom he had ever prosecuted, but also that, quote, "unless he is

505
00:28:53,420 --> 00:29:02,460
undergone a remarkable transformation in prison, he will remain a potential mutilator and killer

506
00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:17,420
of women." "Origin, girl, are you okay?" "Why'd they release him?" "I believe that people

507
00:29:17,420 --> 00:29:25,500
can alter their paths in life, but I'm not sure that they ever really fundamentally change.

508
00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:33,660
This is not the type of offender that should be released without an abundance of caution,

509
00:29:33,660 --> 00:29:42,780
even at that early stage." "Yeah." "He's already proven that he is very dangerous."

510
00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:49,980
"I just don't understand what, like even for good behavior, like, yeah, there's no women to

511
00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:54,780
fucking murder in prison, so, of course, he's going to be all right." "Yeah, it seems like it."

512
00:29:54,780 --> 00:30:04,860
During the first two months of his parole, Cal had enrolled as a student at Oregon State University

513
00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:11,580
and met with his parole officer as required. And I'm sure everybody on the campus had no idea

514
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:19,900
which is horrifying. "That is gross." However, near the end of that period, his parole officer

515
00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:29,340
could not get in touch with him. So it was on May 23rd of 1991 that his parole officer

516
00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:38,460
requested that an arrest warrant be filed. It was on that very same day that Holly was

517
00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:43,820
cajacked in the parking lot of the hotel near the Seattle Tacoma Airport.

518
00:30:43,820 --> 00:30:58,860
"That's just crazy." "And just makes me so angry because this is like Richard Gilmore could be a very

519
00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:08,220
parallel case to this." "Yeah." "He spent all of this time in prison and maybe now he decides that

520
00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:12,780
what he doesn't want to do is leave witnesses." "Yeah."

521
00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:24,940
Following his execution, the Walla Walla County coroner's office was scheduled to perform

522
00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:31,820
an autopsy on Cal, Coburn Brown, who was 52 years old at the time of his execution.

523
00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:40,140
Portland-based anti-death penalty attorney Jeff Ellis, who was a member of Brown's own defense team,

524
00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:47,740
said, "There are many reasons to conclude that the one drug protocol lessons the risk of needless

525
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:57,020
pain and suffering." However, he said it obscures the basic issue of whether the state should be

526
00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:05,660
in the business of killing. "As long as we have a death penalty, we must take measures to avoid

527
00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:13,420
the needless inflection of pain on the person who is being killed." However, killing a human being

528
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:23,260
is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "You gotta keep him fucking locked up,

529
00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:35,020
though." "Yeah." "No, I think I've expressed this in previous discussions on the show, and I know

530
00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:42,780
I've mentioned it already at some point in the discussion about this case. Normally, I would not

531
00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:52,620
consider myself a supporter of the death penalty, but I'll be honest, this is one autopsy that I don't

532
00:32:52,620 --> 00:33:02,140
care if it shows the subject suffered." Not one bit. "No, not even a little."

533
00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:14,220
"The tippy top of my pinky nail just doesn't care." "No."

534
00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:25,260
I mean, it's a tough thing for me because I can't read the quote. However, killing a human being

535
00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:31,020
is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "Yeah."

536
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:39,740
And there's a part of me that wants to agree with that sentiment until I remember

537
00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:53,180
that Holly doesn't ever have the chance to do anything. "No." "Ever." "Not even eat."

538
00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:58,220
"Nothing." "Like, this bitch got his last meal." "Yeah."

539
00:33:58,220 --> 00:34:04,220
I know her family was very deeply upset that he wasn't put to death sooner.

540
00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:11,660
"Well, I mean, they couldn't know either that the one drug thing would pop up. Like, he got his

541
00:34:11,660 --> 00:34:16,940
stay in execution that way. "Right." "Yeah." "They don't know for how long."

542
00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:22,700
"Yeah." "No, I mean, that's really valid. I think for them, that was a very upsetting time.

543
00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:33,660
I do know that I've read about studies that show that whether you're a victim or a survivor of

544
00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:43,340
the victim, studies have shown that oftentimes we think that capital punishment will give us relief.

545
00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:49,260
It will give us a sense of peace, but they find that oftentimes it does not.

546
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:58,140
So that's a hard thing to grapple with, to think that you will be able to find some peace and

547
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:09,020
ultimately, Holly is no longer with her family. And that's something that we just, we can't write that.

548
00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:18,940
So as complicated and I mean, just there's no other way to put it ethically complex as

549
00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:27,260
issues surrounding this case are. I feel like it's time for us to get to something

550
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:33,580
that we enjoy and that I don't know. I'm hopeful that maybe there's something,

551
00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:40,620
there's something good in a message that, you know, is going to come through in the cards and

552
00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:48,540
that'll be for Holly. Yeah. We got this. Terror. Terror? Yeah. Terror?

553
00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:56,940
All right. Should we do some terror? Yeah. Playing with fire over there.

554
00:35:56,940 --> 00:36:04,380
I know. Well, I really wanted to make sure that they could see in the Patreon Terror video. You

555
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:12,140
guys, watch this. She's some practicing her shuffling. That was pretty good, right? That's respectable.

556
00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:18,540
I'm probably the bridge. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. So nobody's going to be hiring me

557
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:23,900
at like a casino or anything, but like this is passable. Okay. Good job.

558
00:36:25,180 --> 00:36:29,500
Hasey, I think we should both pick a card this time. We're going to do two cards. Yeah.

559
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:42,140
And a two-rollmist. I is promised. Ladies first. Oh my gosh. We just got this card the other day. Stop it.

560
00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:49,180
Actually, you made a real of it, didn't you? I just posted a picture of it. Oh wait, no, I think you're

561
00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:56,140
real. I did a real with the fire and stuff. Who knows? Fire? Yeah. Oh man, we were predicting the future

562
00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:04,140
y'all. We even we drew it in reverse the other day. That is so fun. In our interview with Jeremy.

563
00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:09,740
Yeah. From Age of Radio. She's like, wait, who, which day was that? Which day was that? Yeah.

564
00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:14,700
Okay. I'm going to draw one. Oh, this is so precious looking.

565
00:37:16,780 --> 00:37:21,740
Okay. I'm going to flip it so you can see it. Can you, can you, Vanna, why? Because my arms are two

566
00:37:21,740 --> 00:37:24,700
T-rexie. Oh my gosh. Is that like a freaking

567
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:29,980
starlight? Favorite or something? I don't know what that little guy is. It's a little like weasel dude

568
00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:35,980
stealing some eggs. It looks it does look like kind of a fox. I'm not sure if it's a weasel or

569
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:41,740
Oh, I guess so. I didn't say the card that I drew. I'm sorry. It's a seven of ones in reverse and I drew

570
00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:50,140
and she drew the seven of sorts in reverse. Interesting. We both got seven cards. Interesting. Okay.

571
00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:58,140
I'm looking up to see what our little critter is. Yeah. Oh, this sound's darling. He's an Olympic

572
00:37:58,140 --> 00:38:08,540
short tailed weasel. Oh, it's a weasel. I said a weasel. He's cute. Oh my goodness. It is awfully cute.

573
00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:14,460
And there's a really I won't read the interpretation because I feel like they're not as beneficial from

574
00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:22,220
the P&W guidebook but yeah I'll get to it on the others. So I'm going to read Cassie's first.

575
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:34,220
It'll sound familiar if you were on the live. It's a mountain goat on the line. Okay. So seven of ones

576
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:41,500
in the reverse are keywords are courage fighting for what you believe in and facing challenges.

577
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:51,100
Interesting. Okay. The reversed seven of ones signifies a time of confusion. You can't decide

578
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:56,140
how to handle a challenge or which direction to take to accomplish your objective.

579
00:38:56,140 --> 00:39:03,580
Lack of clarity may sap your willpower and make you feel like giving up. Wow. We've got a real

580
00:39:03,580 --> 00:39:11,100
we got a dance and candle over here. Yeah. Yeah. In a reading about money, competitors or unexpected

581
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:19,020
expenses may cut into your financial resources. You may need to set firm guidelines for spending or

582
00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:26,220
seek assistance from someone else. In a reading about work, the seven reversed cautions you to avoid

583
00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:33,900
problematic people and watch your back. Don't get into arguments with co-workers, bosses or clients

584
00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:41,340
now. Choose your battles carefully. And for love, this card indicates giving up on a relationship.

585
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:48,700
You feel worn down by problems and don't know how to settle your differences. Counseling could help

586
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:58,060
you gain clarity. Was that the one that was like the don't give up card? It is. It's kind of interesting

587
00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:05,500
because it's like there was a lot of confusion and stuff about the or delays in the what I'm trying

588
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:11,820
to say. The death penalty. Yes. The state like don't give up. Yeah. He's still going to get it.

589
00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:21,260
That is ultimately where my head went to. Interesting. So our seven of swords, keywords are uncertainty,

590
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:33,740
illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning and strategy. He was a weasel. I don't know how cunning he was.

591
00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:41,100
Yeah. When the seven appears reversed, it can mean either you're behaving impetuously or that

592
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:47,660
you're overly cautious and afraid to act. It can also represent coming clean about a mistake

593
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:55,500
and trying to make restitution. Oh, he definitely came real clean real quick. Yeah. Wow.

594
00:40:55,500 --> 00:41:07,740
And nothing about his statement rang as particularly genuine to me, but I think for a lot of people who

595
00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:15,740
don't have normal people feelings, he probably thought that's what Holly's family wanted to hear

596
00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:22,300
at the time of his execution. That or like coming clean about it. He was like, it's almost like he

597
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:27,500
should have saved that as his like bargaining chip. Yeah. But he just like spilled it out right away.

598
00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:31,340
I don't know if he's expecting like, oh, honesty is going to save you a little bit here.

599
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:40,780
Sometimes this card shows you experimenting with different plans and getting various points of view.

600
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:52,380
Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy as Barbara Moore writes in the gilded tarot

601
00:41:52,380 --> 00:42:02,060
companion. Be on guard or one of those swords left behind will find its way into his back.

602
00:42:02,140 --> 00:42:16,380
Oh, vengeance. She is a tricky mistress. It is kind of interesting too because he was complaining about,

603
00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:22,380
you know, being put to death and he didn't think he deserved it. Yeah. Yeah. But then it's like,

604
00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:31,020
"Ha ha, you were put to death anyway." But then he was the last one. It's just like, it's kind of poetic

605
00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:39,660
justice, I feel like. Yeah. It's like, it is. It's very strange to like put your finger on what the

606
00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:46,860
right words are. In a reading about money, be careful of get rich quick schemes.

607
00:42:47,580 --> 00:42:56,540
Like stealing money from people. Yeah, maybe gambling or dubious endeavors. Very dubious, very

608
00:42:56,540 --> 00:43:06,780
aggravated mayhem. Yeah. Yeah. This is interesting. Sometimes it suggests you may have gained through

609
00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:16,380
or are considering underhanded means. Yeah. If the reading is about your job, this card can warn

610
00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:23,020
of dishonesty or deception in your workplace. Perhaps you'll need to separate yourself from a situation.

611
00:43:23,020 --> 00:43:30,540
Stay open-minded and flexible so that you can respond to changes quickly. It can also mean

612
00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:43,340
taking advantage of someone else. Yeah. In a reading about love, the reverse seven can mean

613
00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:51,180
apologizing for a mistake or injury. Perhaps you've betrayed, hurt, or manipulated someone.

614
00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:57,980
However, this card can also show you assisting a partner through a challenge or warning him or

615
00:43:57,980 --> 00:44:05,820
her against a risky course of action. And there is an extra excerpt.

616
00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:17,580
Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength. No matter what source of difficulties,

617
00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:24,300
how painful experiences, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster.

618
00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:36,540
Cassie, I feel like that was Holly. You're going to shit yourself. Why? That quote is from

619
00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:46,300
his holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama. Oh, seven and seven. Interesting.

620
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:54,940
That was Holly for sure. Yeah. Remember at the end, you're like, maybe we'll get a reading for Holly.

621
00:44:54,940 --> 00:44:59,980
And I was like, waiting for it. And I was like, I don't know. I don't feel it. I was even at,

622
00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:04,860
for whatever reason, I was eyeballing this card and I kind of separated it. Do you think I should pull

623
00:45:04,860 --> 00:45:12,380
it? Okay. So I don't know why I was feeling it needed to pull it. Pull it. But we're, we just do what we

624
00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:18,380
want around here. So yeah, that's true. Okay. It's the King of Pentacles. King of Pentacles.

625
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:25,260
This big like, oh, that's such a pretty card. I really, really, I love this deck. This is so, so much.

626
00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:36,620
Can't want to look up what kind of animal it is. It's an Olympic elk. Oh, it's a limbic. Yes. Yeah.

627
00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:45,980
So King of Pentacles, our keywords are security, material success, pragmatism, stability,

628
00:45:45,980 --> 00:45:54,780
strength, and worldly power. And this was upright. Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. I just read the,

629
00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:59,180
sorry, we took like a pause, but I read this whole thing and it was kind of interesting.

630
00:45:59,180 --> 00:46:04,380
Okay. To read this. I want you to read yours because it's not making sense for me.

631
00:46:04,380 --> 00:46:10,060
Okay. So this is the King march through his domain, treading lightly despite his bulk.

632
00:46:10,060 --> 00:46:18,380
Was this, was he a bulky guy? He was a very large man. Interesting. Okay. I think that ended up not

633
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:27,580
making the cut in my notes, but he was quite large. Okay. Is my understanding. He walked slowly

634
00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:35,340
that his subjects might better appreciate his flawless coat, his regal posture. Just picturing him

635
00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:44,060
like walking around the airport. It's like, oh, I'm an architect. Mm-hmm. He carried his pride, his glory,

636
00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:50,860
his ossified crown. I said that with a list. Wow. He's ossified. Awesome. You know, you didn't. You said

637
00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:56,860
it. Find the first time. He lied. Yeah. ossified crown. He had devoted his life to reaching,

638
00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:03,580
reaching this standing and he was comfortable in his defense of his territory. Everyone knew what was

639
00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:10,140
his and none would try to take it. He understood this world well and he knew how to shape his role

640
00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:17,180
to take advantage of it. How quickly it would all come crashing down when the plates shifted beneath

641
00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:30,220
his hooves. Oh boy. Right. Yeah. It's like a, like a sign of vengeance. Yeah. Wow. It's almost like he,

642
00:47:30,220 --> 00:47:37,100
he thought he could either get away with it or just like do it in a way to where he wouldn't

643
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:43,900
get put to death. Like I feel like his, I think that was because after skipping parole, like it seemed

644
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:49,740
like he did these things very quick and he did it to people very, it was like I'm almost like I know

645
00:47:49,740 --> 00:47:55,420
I'm going to get caught. Like I want to get these things done. That sounds really bad. That's,

646
00:47:55,420 --> 00:48:01,340
but it's a very good point. And I'm just looking at some pictures just to get an idea of size.

647
00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:09,260
He's not a huge dude. That's not huge. He's not like, oh gosh, the last case that I covered from

648
00:48:09,260 --> 00:48:17,260
out of Salem. Yeah. William Scott Smith. He's not quite that large, but he's like he thought he was.

649
00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:24,540
Yeah. And of course, you know, compared to a relatively young and petite woman like Holly,

650
00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:35,580
I'm sure he felt it. Well, interesting. Y'all got y'all all on. Y'all got three cards. Yeah.

651
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:44,300
We ready. I think we're ready. We're ready. We're supposed to stare at them like. Yeah.

652
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:51,260
How do we get two sevens in the 14 and then yeah, it's crazy. It's weird. I'm a witch.

653
00:48:52,460 --> 00:48:57,020
because he's a witch. (chuckles)

654
00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:59,440
- Have a creepy ass day. - Have a creepy ass day.

655
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,620
See you next Tuesday. - See you next Tuesday.

656
00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:04,940
- Unless you're the last person

657
00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:06,560
put to death in Washington.

658
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,060
- Yeah, and then you won't see us ever, ever, ever, ever, ever.

659
00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:12,420
- Ever, ever, ever. (laughs)

660
00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:15,420
- Ever again. - You never, ever, ever, ever.

661
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:17,260
- Bye. - Bye.

662
00:49:17,260 --> 00:49:19,220
(laughs)

663
00:49:19,220 --> 00:49:21,340
So, for all of you that are listening,

664
00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:24,460
if you have any true crime or paranormal stories

665
00:49:24,460 --> 00:49:26,220
that you want us to share,

666
00:49:26,220 --> 00:49:28,540
maybe with a whole Pacific Northwest.

667
00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:31,580
- Yes, we would love to read them on the pod.

668
00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:34,660
- Yes, we will read them out loud,

669
00:49:34,660 --> 00:49:35,780
(laughs)

670
00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:37,140
not just in our heads.

671
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:37,980
- Yes.

672
00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:41,540
- They don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest,

673
00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:43,260
if you would like to share,

674
00:49:43,260 --> 00:49:48,260
email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com.

675
00:49:49,660 --> 00:49:52,580
It's all spelled out, no special characters.

676
00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:55,340
Super duper easy peasy.

677
00:49:55,340 --> 00:49:58,660
- Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

678
00:49:58,660 --> 00:50:02,540
Same thing as the email @pnwhauntsandhomicides,

679
00:50:02,540 --> 00:50:05,420
all spelled out, no special characters.

680
00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:08,420
Please also rate and review us on whatever platform

681
00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:10,820
you're listening to and check out our stories

682
00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:14,740
on social media because our meme game is hot.

683
00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:15,940
(laughs)

684
00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:16,780
- Agreed.

685
00:50:16,780 --> 00:50:18,820
- And if you agree, like Caitlyn,

686
00:50:18,820 --> 00:50:22,660
you can also find us on Patreon and support the show. pnwhauntsandhomicides.com

687
00:50:22,660 --> 00:50:23,500
- Bitchin.

688
00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,580
(laughs)

689
00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:28,160
(upbeat music)

690
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,740
(upbeat music)

691
00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:33,320
(upbeat music)

692
00:50:58,540 --> 00:51:00,460
- Based upon.

693
00:51:00,460 --> 00:51:01,900
- Based upon.

694
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:02,980
- Based upon?

695
00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:03,820
- Yeah.

696
00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:05,460
(laughs)

697
00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:07,460
- Basting a cinne bomb.

698
00:51:07,460 --> 00:51:10,040
(laughs)

699
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,340
- How do you base the cinne bomb?

700
00:51:14,340 --> 00:51:16,420
Oh, you just take the goo.

701
00:51:16,420 --> 00:51:18,980
The cinnamens stuffing, you just keep spraying more on top.

702
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:19,900
Just like a turkey.

703
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:20,980
- We should open a turquoise.

704
00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:23,260
- Just like a turquoise called based upon.

705
00:51:23,260 --> 00:51:26,060
- Oh, I love that for us.

706
00:51:26,060 --> 00:51:28,220
- Oh my gosh.

707
00:51:28,220 --> 00:51:30,500
- Based upon.

708
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:31,340
(laughs)

709
00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:32,980
- Oh my God.