Episode 93: Kyron Horman - Missing in the PNW Part 1

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If you're a frequent PNW Haunts and Homicides listener, you probably already know we're

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You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or PNW Haunts and Homicides link

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tree.

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Have a safe ass day!

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As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.

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So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.

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Let's show them some love you can find their info in our show notes.

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Oh, I've been dying to charge this place.

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Oh my god, me too.

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I've heard such good things about it.

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Welcome to the crime diner.

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I'm Cindy.

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I'll be cooking for you this evening.

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Here are your menus.

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Oh, what are you thinking about getting?

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I don't know.

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Murder with a side of cannibalism.

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What about you?

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Ooh, that sounds good.

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I'm torn between historical mayhem and the social injustice, maybe?

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Ooh.

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I just want to let you know that each episode comes with dinner, dessert and a specialty

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drink chosen by yours truly.

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Wine diner story time has had a makeover and we invite you to slide into the booth with

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us at the crime diner where each week we will discuss a crime over dinner, drinks and dessert.

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See you there.

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You guys were back!

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And don't worry, we did get more wine.

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Well, of course.

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[MUSIC]

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[MUSIC]

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[MUSIC]

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[MUSIC]

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[MUSIC]

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, mysterious third person in on the Zoom call.

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Hi, Cassie and Caitlyn.

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We have a very special collaboration coming at your earholes.

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We have missing in the PNW.

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Hey, it's Carmita.

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Yay!

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What do you guys have for me today?

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I'm kind of worried.

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You guys are ganging up on me.

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Yeah, I'll be there.

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Yeah, you know, I didn't really think about it, but we sort of are.

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Yeah.

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Okay, we'll be here.

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Yeah.

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Before we get into it, I will go through just really quick kind of how we're going to work

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it with the collaboration so that everybody knows where they need to go and how it's going

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to work because we are going to be dropping pieces of our collaboration between the two

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feeds.

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And we always release on Tuesdays, unless it's like a special bonus or something like that.

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And Carmita actually releases on Wednesday.

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So you're going to have to wait probably a whole ass 24 hours before you can get the tarot

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reading and kind of the second half of what we worked on.

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So, haha, but it'll be worth it.

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It'll be worth it.

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Yeah.

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So, and then we'll obviously link in our show notes so that you're going to know where

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to go.

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I think we've connected on all of the things now.

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So I'll be able to link to you in the socials so they can come and find your Facebook page

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and hang out with you there on the socials.

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Oh goodness.

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Cassie is going to have a really rough time today, but okay, I'm ready.

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Let's go hit me.

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Are you?

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Are you ready?

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I'm prepared.

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Okay.

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She said without a hope, I'm going to hold my ghost crystal.

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I would.

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If I were you, since I'm not you, I'm going to get started.

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This is a case that probably just about everyone in the Pacific Northwest has heard of.

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It's been given an absolute insane amount of news coverage, which is usually why this

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would be a pass for us.

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I just think that, you know, some of them, it's still really interesting to hear the story,

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but I like to talk about some cases that maybe we haven't heard of so that I mean, on the

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outside chance that we can be, you know, even mildly educational.

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This was definitely been covered a lot of times.

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Oh, yeah.

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Over and over and over and over and over.

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I didn't even live in the state when it happened and I heard about it.

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Yeah.

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It was international.

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It might have even been international.

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So.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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We're not just being snobby hipsters though that want to claim to have known of the band

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when insert pretentious phrase here.

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We knew them when they were still playing at the Badebadeh, anyhow.

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Just like that.

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Yeah, just like that.

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It's just that oftentimes in those instances, as indie podcasters, we're not sure if we

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can add value to the true crime community by covering them number one.

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And I'm not an investigative journalist.

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I don't have 16, 18 hours every day, seven days a week to be keeping up to date on some

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of these type of cases.

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So yet, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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However, the tugging of my heartstrings is a hell of a motivator because regardless

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of being covered repeatedly, this case, and therefore the family still have no answers.

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I don't want to do this one.

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I mean, they could.

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They just can't prove it.

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Yeah.

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I do think it's one of those on June 4th of 2010, seven year old Kyron disappeared from

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Skyline Elementary School in Portland, Oregon.

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That morning, he was reportedly dropped off with his science fair project by stepmother

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Terri Horman.

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Though he was reported absent from his very first class that morning, the family was not made

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aware until after he did not arrive home after school.

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So we have missed a huge portion of that critical window with a child disappearance.

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Yeah.

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So not great.

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Now before anyone is immediately up in arms, we'll talk about some of the details surrounding

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his attendance that might provide some explanation.

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Whether it will assuage or simply raise more burning questions is another matter entirely

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because I think it's the latter for me.

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I feel like that always happens.

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You do all this more information.

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We just have more questions.

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Yeah.

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Hopefully you're welcome.

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Now for a bit of context about this investigation, just Google largest criminal investigation in

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Oregon's history.

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Literally, because the combined effort of local and state law enforcement along with the

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FBI makes this one a top hit in the search results.

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Along with Dayton, we Roy Rogers, which Cassie will remember, he was the Molalla forest killer.

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Right.

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Who we've talked about in an previous episode and the Rajneeshees, which is a wild case.

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And it's possible we could get to that at some point.

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It's one of the cases in the true crime world that happened in our state that I'm like,

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that doesn't sound real.

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I can't know.

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It's too weird.

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It is.

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It's too weird.

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I don't think I've heard of it.

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So Cassie.

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I mean, don't explain it to me now.

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I did it until I looked it up.

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Literally, I googled that and I see what she was talking about.

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And the very first one I'm pretty sure is a wiki of hiring.

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Like, wow.

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That is insane.

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Okay.

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Well, yeah.

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Yeah, Carmita might be, she might have to come back for that one because apparently

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y'all don't know nothing.

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I would love to.

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We're going to start our own podcast without you.

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I'm kidding.

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Well, I don't know how to edit, so that's why you have me.

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Yeah.

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Wait.

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Now I'm sweating.

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Really?

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Why did I invite a guest?

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What's happening?

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No, keep going.

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Keep going.

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At the time of his disappearance, Kyron lived with father, Kaine Horman and stepmom Terri.

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The Horman household consisted of Terri, Kaine, Kyron, a younger half-sister and an older

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step-brother.

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Now Desiree is Kyron's biological mother and is very much in his life.

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So I only refer to her as his biological mother in this case to hopefully prevent any

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confusion given their custodial arrangements.

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So I think a lot of times when we say biological parent is sort of has this connotation that it's

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maybe somebody who's not involved in the child's life and that's certainly not the case here.

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So don't get the wrong idea.

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So it's not any sort of a passive-aggressive dig or anything like that.

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I just want to be perfectly clear because it does get confusing and I don't want to lead

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anyone astray because I'll be honest, it could happen pretty easily in this case.

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Oh yeah.

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There's multiple people.

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Yeah, multiple names.

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Yeah, exactly.

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So here's the deal.

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Up until Kyron was around age two, his parents co-parented in Portland and shared custody.

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Desiree began having health issues shortly after giving birth to Kyron.

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One and Terri became Kyron's primary caregivers during this time.

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When his mother was diagnosed with kidney failure in 2004, she had to move back home with

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her parents in Southern Oregon to be sure that she could receive her treatment and have

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support day to day.

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So that's a tough situation to have to leave your child.

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Yeah.

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There's no way you're not just feeling the...

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You shouldn't feel guilty, but you know you're going to as a mom.

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Yeah.

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The hard thing about that is they always say take care of yourself before...

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If you can't take care of yourself, you can't take care of your kids, but as a mom, you

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have that mindset of just wanting to take care of them.

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Of course.

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Yeah.

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I do think that's the saddest part is your logical brain says, "Yeah, I have to take care of myself,

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but you know, do as I say, not as I do, right?"

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It's hard because you created that little thing, you know?

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Yeah.

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I mean, I don't know, but I assume you...

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I mean, we have to really have that.

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We've heard things.

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Kaine took full custody at that point because that's what the situation required, not because

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Desiree's custody is revoked or anything like that, just to be clear.

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And don't worry, there will be plenty to be outraged about.

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Just not it.

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We're setting this scene and giving you the background, but let's go back actually a

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little bit further.

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2002 is when Terri met Kaine.

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At the time, Kaine is still married to Desiree.

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Uh oh.

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Hmm.

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Correct, because she was about eight months pregnant with Kyron.

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Yikes.

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Yeah.

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Not optimal.

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I have no words on it.

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Yeah.

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I really don't for that.

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Seriously, yeah.

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This is the only situation where I'm like, you know what?

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Maybe that's the story of how I committed violent crime.

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I mean, TMI, I got cheated on when I was pregnant with my oldest.

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So, I just...

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Just awful.

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Seriously.

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They are doing so much work growing a whole ass human.

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For real?

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What are you doing?

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Yeah.

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Just being garbage.

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Generally speaking, I say live your best life.

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Unless of course, living your best life includes cheating on your wife who is currently eight

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months pregnant with your child.

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And then in that case, I say, I don't care what kind of life you have because you are a

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literal sack of, okay, well, I'll leave it at that.

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Yeah, we got it.

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Okay.

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Sorry, not sorry.

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Okay.

255
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:48,040
I feel like we could very easily be telling a very different story, you know, how it goes.

256
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:53,280
The one about how a pregnant wife snapped on her cheating husband.

257
00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,160
The Lifetime movie that will be made about me.

258
00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:58,160
Hopefully not.

259
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,160
Okay.

260
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,160
Yeah.

261
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,640
Totally kidding, but...

262
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,400
Chris, watch out.

263
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:04,400
Yeah.

264
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:10,400
Well, luckily for Kaine, Desiree's handling of the situation.

265
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:16,800
Makes it more of an example of what happens when cooler heads prevail.

266
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:22,200
She filed for divorce and I'm going to go out on a limb here and say she probably cited

267
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:25,360
his invidelity as the cause.

268
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,240
Well, life goes on, right?

269
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:35,640
Desiree would eventually be remarried to a man named Tony and the couple lived in Medford.

270
00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:45,200
In 2007, Terri and Kaine got married in Kui and they have Kyron's younger half-sister in 2008.

271
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,240
This wasn't Terri's first marriage or child.

272
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:54,480
I'm going into some of her background because I personally feel that it's very telling as

273
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,760
to her character as we go.

274
00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,880
I feel as though some of it is really best to have in mind as we walk through the details

275
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:06,920
of the disappearance, particularly for anyone who really isn't all that familiar with the

276
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,240
case.

277
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:15,160
You know, like that one bug out in your yard that's living under the rock.

278
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,160
See, I know of it.

279
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,120
I've heard of it, but I don't know a lot of the details.

280
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:21,120
Yeah.

281
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,120
Urmigored.

282
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,120
Yeah.

283
00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,360
Oh, my God.

284
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,400
Terri was born in 1970 in grew up in California.

285
00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,240
She was adopted by a family that later moved to Oregon.

286
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:41,960
Her son, James, so this is Kyron's older step-brother, was born in 1994.

287
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,560
In 1995, she was married for a second time.

288
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:53,280
And yes, I realized I didn't talk about the first dude, but suffice to say he was but a

289
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,520
blip on the radar in this story.

290
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,520
So sorry.

291
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:01,000
Uh, nameless dude.

292
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000
Bye.

293
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,600
See, she gets it.

294
00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,760
First husband, am I right?

295
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,760
Yeah.

296
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:08,760
Yeah.

297
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:09,760
She's had a lot.

298
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:10,760
Yeah.

299
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,800
I mean, oh boy.

300
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,760
Her second husband adopted her son, James.

301
00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:23,240
By 1998, she begins college courses while she's working as a substitute teacher.

302
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,280
Long story short, she divorces her second husband in

303
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:34,720
2002, but guess who still is going to have to pay child support to her?

304
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:35,960
Who?

305
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,280
The second husband.

306
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,600
She adopted the son.

307
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:40,600
Oh, yeah.

308
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:41,600
Oh, my God.

309
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:42,600
Oh, my God.

310
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,600
Y'all.

311
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:44,600
Y'all.

312
00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:45,600
Okay.

313
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:53,160
Convinces the second husband to adopt her child with her first husband divorces him and

314
00:17:53,160 --> 00:18:01,400
literally has the audacity to pursue child support from this man.

315
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,080
No, that's a law in Oregon.

316
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,000
It's like a really stupid court system, family court law.

317
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,000
No, I know.

318
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:13,360
Yeah, whoever you're married to, if you divorce, then have a child, even if that wasn't

319
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:17,120
the baby daddy or whatever, yeah, they have to pay.

320
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:23,080
I mean, if they adopted your child, yeah, that's crazy.

321
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:25,080
Can you unadopt somebody?

322
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,400
I mean, I don't think.

323
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,720
I don't.

324
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,760
In this situation, I just don't know how all of the legality of that works out.

325
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:37,760
But yikes.

326
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:39,400
Can we call Elyse real quick?

327
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,400
Can we phone in a right hand?

328
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,400
You don't like life?

329
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:48,240
I'd like to phone a friend, lawyer friend.

330
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,760
It's important probably for legal reasons.

331
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,840
We should have phoned Elyse after that.

332
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:03,840
That I state that Terri Horman has never officially been named as a suspect.

333
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:09,000
And I knew going into the case that that had been true for many years.

334
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,040
And I don't see any indication that that has changed in recent years either.

335
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:24,520
In fairness, though, I will also say that a judge did call her a "prime suspect"

336
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:32,440
when ruling on a 2012 civil case that was brought against her in relation to the disappearance.

337
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,640
So, do with that information what you will.

338
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,880
So somebody said it just wasn't official?

339
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:50,480
Yeah. It's officially documented as having been said.

340
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:57,560
It doesn't make her an official suspect in terms of what law enforcement is stating.

341
00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,360
But do you think that the judge might have pretty good judgment?

342
00:20:02,360 --> 00:20:03,360
Maybe?

343
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:04,680
I mean, he's a judge.

344
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:05,960
Literal job.

345
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:06,960
Yeah.

346
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:14,000
If you're from the Pacific Northwest, you'll probably be able to picture this clearly.

347
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,760
Kyron Horman, bright eyed and smiling in a CSI t-shirt with his science fair project

348
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:23,360
on the red eyed tree frog.

349
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,640
Oh, stop it!

350
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,040
That photo was taken the day that he went missing.

351
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,560
So kind of unusual.

352
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,920
Like before he went to school?

353
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,840
It was actually him on the campus.

354
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,480
Oh, okay.

355
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480
Yeah.

356
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:46,360
So this is where you're not really like knowing the details of the case and all of that.

357
00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,080
It's going to be really interesting now because you're going to be like, "Wait, what?"

358
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:51,080
Okay.

359
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:56,040
And I quote, "Wait, what?

360
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:02,320
The science fair started at 8 a.m., early reporting on Kyron's disappearance indicated

361
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:08,080
that there was a 9 a.m. sighting of him, but that was apparently later retracted.

362
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:14,000
Kyron's home room teacher, Christina Porter, marked him absent, but nothing really sets

363
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,600
off alarm bells as you might expect until much later in the day."

364
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,960
So again, not ideal.

365
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:23,800
Okay.

366
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,920
Meanwhile, we know that Terri went to two different Fredmeyer stores.

367
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:34,120
And if they don't have them where you live, these are pretty run of the mill grocery stores.

368
00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:39,160
In other parts of the country, the same parent company owns Kroger grocery stores.

369
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,440
So they generally have all the same items.

370
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:48,920
So why you'd ever go to two different locations in one day is beyond me.

371
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:55,560
I guess unless you were having some sort of weird contest about being caught on as much

372
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,760
CCTV footage as possible in a given period of time.

373
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:11,360
I've never heard of one weird game, but that's like a super niche scavenger hunt, I guess.

374
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:22,880
Although, Kermit, that I had not heard kind of the theory that you read about, so I didn't

375
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,880
prepare you for this.

376
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,120
But I was going to ask you to just jump in and share that because I think that's really

377
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:30,120
interesting.

378
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:35,000
I'm curious what people are going to say about this theory because I just don't know that

379
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,800
I don't know.

380
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,800
I don't know.

381
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,520
So well, actually, I'm looking at it.

382
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,280
It's like, it'll make sense when you start talking to because you didn't have an air

383
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:46,280
affection.

384
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:53,800
So the theory that I've seen multiple times is that, yes, it's weird.

385
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,480
She went to two different friend's mirrored stores, but that's because she was trying to

386
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,000
get antibiotics for her daughter.

387
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:08,480
And one store, pharmacy didn't have it, so she went to the other store.

388
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,920
And that's, I mean, I can kind of see how the mom, how that would make sense, but then

389
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:15,880
it's just, yeah, you're right.

390
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:22,120
It was a lot of CCTV footage in these two stores that you don't really actually know where

391
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:24,120
she was.

392
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:25,120
Yeah.

393
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,440
The thing that really gets it for me is it's such a short window of time.

394
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,800
And let's put it this way.

395
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,640
We've talked about the pharmacy that I used to go to, okay?

396
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,520
Like, could probably gather up all the times.

397
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:49,120
We've talked about it and make that like a weird bonus episode.

398
00:23:49,120 --> 00:23:55,760
But have you ever like gone to pick up a prescription and it's out of stock and then you're able

399
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:02,960
to go and pick it up at a neighboring location in under like 24 hours?

400
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,440
There's just no way.

401
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:05,440
I just don't buy it.

402
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:11,440
Like, if the prescription is out of stock at one location and you're able to pick it up

403
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,960
at a totally different location in less than 90 minutes, I don't know, man.

404
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,080
Well, I can try to play devil's eye.

405
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:27,200
I have to get to that because like, I don't know if it's a legal thing, but working in healthcare,

406
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,080
you can transfer prescriptions if it's the same store.

407
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:37,320
So like the Fred Meyer should have every single Fred Meyer and Oregon should have and be

408
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,480
able to see that prescription in the system.

409
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,280
So I mean, they would call usually now though, like if my daughter's mental is out of stock,

410
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:51,440
they call me and they're like, hey, they don't have it at this store like they have it over

411
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:52,440
here.

412
00:24:52,440 --> 00:25:00,240
So I'm just thinking from the perspective of, you know, they can transfer it quickly.

413
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,680
That piece of it, like I think that's smart too.

414
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:09,600
And like knowing that about, you know, how healthcare and kind of the prescriptions and

415
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,800
pharmacies work, like that's helpful.

416
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,000
It was 2010 though.

417
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,000
Yeah, right?

418
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,000
Yeah, that's true.

419
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:23,200
And I also think the slow down and like why it would take longer is just because like they

420
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,680
have to have an actual pharmacist prepare it.

421
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,480
So that's where I'm like, I don't know.

422
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:33,000
I'm still on the fence though.

423
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,120
Like maybe that's questionable.

424
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,800
Yeah, it is.

425
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:37,800
Yeah.

426
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:38,800
And I just learned about it.

427
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,440
I was today, years old when I learned about it.

428
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,960
So well, I was going to say like what if she went there for lettuce?

429
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,240
And they didn't have any lettuce.

430
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,040
So she went to the other one.

431
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,840
She was really wanted lettuce.

432
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,240
Yeah, nobody wants lettuce that badly.

433
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:55,240
What do you know what?

434
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,040
We have to cook a dinner.

435
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,520
No, they're out of something.

436
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,920
But well, better not be lettuce because if I was making a salad and they're out of lettuce,

437
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,400
guess we haven't a salad.

438
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:13,360
It was just, you know, the tail or cabbage or spinach.

439
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:19,400
I'm just saying like we all probably should eat a lot of greens, but if they're out,

440
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,200
then so am I, am I?

441
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,560
Maybe it was her favorite type of cheeto.

442
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,000
They didn't have it.

443
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Yeah.

444
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,400
Now it's starting to sound more feasible.

445
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:32,400
Okay.

446
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,280
That's a relatable example.

447
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:35,280
Okay.

448
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,280
My energy drinks.

449
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,280
Yeah.

450
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:41,080
My energy drinks are only after in stores.

451
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,280
Oh, man.

452
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:53,880
All that said between 1010 and 1139 AM, Terri's whereabouts are unconfirmed.

453
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,520
So that's like an hour and a half window.

454
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,560
She claimed to be driving rural roads, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, rural, I hate

455
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,560
saying that word too.

456
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:05,560
I hate it.

457
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,440
She claimed to be driving rural roads trying to soothe her daughter who had an ear infection

458
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,600
during that time window.

459
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:19,000
And I thought the driving thing was for making them fall asleep, but what do I know?

460
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Kermitha, thoughts?

461
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,320
I, I mean, yeah, it's very like wide known.

462
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,520
I guess you can call it old-wife so, but yeah, you drive around the car and like soothe

463
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:30,840
the baby.

464
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,320
I don't know.

465
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:39,720
I mean, I think if she would have said to soothe her daughter to go to sleep, like, I

466
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,640
can see how it can sick.

467
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:46,140
Like if my kids are sick or whatever, they fall asleep and driving around, they always fall

468
00:27:46,140 --> 00:27:48,560
asleep in the car, especially my five-year-old.

469
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,560
Yeah.

470
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:55,160
So I think if she would have said like, you know, it wasn't for the infection, even though

471
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840
it kind of was, it was for her to fall asleep.

472
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,360
So she's because she's going through this ear infection that, I mean, she's a baby,

473
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:03,360
so it hurts though.

474
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:04,360
Yeah.

475
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:09,600
I just had a hard time picturing exactly how driving around was,

476
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,120
soothing for the ear infection.

477
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:12,120
Yeah, awesome.

478
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:17,040
It's gonna be like, wouldn't that make, if you're on rural, rural, if you're on those rural

479
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:23,360
streets, wouldn't it be like up and down and like, it would make your ears pop maybe,

480
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,360
right?

481
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:30,040
Or is that not how the whole situation like, the areas where she was maybe.

482
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,040
Yeah.

483
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:32,680
And you don't have to be.

484
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:33,880
I mean, you don't have to be.

485
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:34,880
Yeah.

486
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,880
Yeah.

487
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,120
And when you need to be necessarily approaching an elevation, you just have to have a change

488
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,640
in elevation.

489
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,280
That's really like what does it with the ear popping?

490
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,200
That would make it, when you have the ear infection, though, that makes it her worse.

491
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:51,200
Yeah.

492
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:52,340
That's what I'm thinking, yeah.

493
00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:56,480
So I feel like that, that wouldn't be beneficial, but…

494
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,480
Yeah.

495
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,480
Okay.

496
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:01,520
I don't have children, so.

497
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:08,240
I mean, but you do understand how things work.

498
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:09,240
Yeah.

499
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,240
So there's that.

500
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,320
11:39 is when she checked in at her gym, a 24 hour fitness, roughly 11 miles away from

501
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,840
the last grocery store that she was seen at.

502
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,360
So again, it's another spot where we know for sure, like she can be documented, verified,

503
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
as having been there at that specific time.

504
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:31,480
Yeah, but did anybody like confirm the last time she was in the gym?

505
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:39,720
You see that, like, is it even possible to get to that thing 11 miles away?

506
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:40,720
You know what?

507
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,040
That's kind of what I was thinking.

508
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:48,100
I'm like, I want to do this drive and figure out, like, okay, what time did she leave the

509
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:49,100
second Fred Meyers?

510
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:50,100
Yeah, exactly.

511
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:54,280
And you would think if it's CCTV footage, you would have that time.

512
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,280
Yeah.

513
00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,400
I've not seen it released anywhere, but I feel like that's a really valid point.

514
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:02,400
Where's the baby while she's at the gym?

515
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,400
They are.

516
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,400
So she actually, yeah, the-

517
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,400
With the ear infection?

518
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,400
Right?

519
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,400
Right?

520
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:09,400
That is a really good point.

521
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,400
And a lot of people talk about that.

522
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,400
Okay.

523
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,400
Yeah, she just takes her to the daycare inside of the gym.

524
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,400
Okay.

525
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,400
Not even her own daycare.

526
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,400
Exactly.

527
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,400
And that ear infection is one of her excuses of why she leaves the gym.

528
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,400
Mm-hmm.

529
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,400
Okay.

530
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:28,400
Yeah.

531
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:33,840
And she's not- she wants to like use mom excuses, right?

532
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,400
But she's not mom in it.

533
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,400
Like not moming the momness, you know?

534
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:41,400
Yeah.

535
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,400
Like you would think maybe your baby would want to go to like a family member or something

536
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,400
where they're more comfortable and they can sleep in-

537
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,400
Or just like some random stranger.

538
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,400
Just take your child home and take care of her.

539
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:57,400
I can feel more like we need to go to the gym, give it to like the grandma or something.

540
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:58,400
Yeah.

541
00:30:58,400 --> 00:30:59,400
I'm with you.

542
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,400
I felt like that was really shady.

543
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,400
Yeah.

544
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,400
Possibly the most shady thing, like kind of in that whole sequence so far.

545
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:09,400
What time of year was this?

546
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,400
Did you say the date?

547
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,400
Yeah, June 4th.

548
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:14,400
June 4th, right?

549
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,400
Not even like this is a New Year's resolution.

550
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:18,400
It's January.

551
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,400
We got to get to the gym.

552
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400
No, she was very into physical fitness.

553
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:23,400
Yeah.

554
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,400
So that was something that was like a real priority to her.

555
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,400
But look at that though.

556
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,400
Cassie is just like she's teeing up and then she's like, "Bale."

557
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,400
You're out of here.

558
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,400
You're like an umpire today.

559
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,400
I can't trust those people.

560
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,400
When they're all into physical fitness, I can't trust you.

561
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,400
Something's wrong with you.

562
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,400
You're staying honest about your gym routine, but what else you got that you're lying about?

563
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:50,400
Am I right?

564
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,400
So what you're saying though is it could have been lettuce at the store.

565
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,400
Mother of Pearl.

566
00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,400
Yeah, it could have been.

567
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,400
Probably was.

568
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:06,400
This trifling gym going, let it sit in.

569
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,400
Waltman.

570
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Oh boy.

571
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:20,400
Around 12.45 or 1 o'clock, somewhere in that window, she logged in to Facebook after arriving back at home,

572
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,400
which was apparently fairly typical for her day to day activity.

573
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,400
So nothing weird about that.

574
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:32,400
We just kind of have specific times because it's online.

575
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:38,400
At 121, she posts the now infamous photo of Kyron from the science fair.

576
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,400
No.

577
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,400
Again, apparently this was not unusual, but it is a bit haunting in hindsight.

578
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,400
Yeah.

579
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:53,400
Because she was known to post a lot of photos of really any of the kids, but...

580
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,400
That's just the one they chose to use because it was supposedly the last photo.

581
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,400
Right.

582
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,400
And it's fucking adorable.

583
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,400
So cute.

584
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,400
It really is.

585
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:12,400
I think that's a big part of why people really felt so strongly about this case.

586
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:19,400
Because it's just like you just look at it and he just looks like such a baby.

587
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Just...

588
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,400
That's pretty much a prairie.

589
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,400
I know.

590
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,400
I think that's what does it for me.

591
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:33,400
And then he looks a lot, a lot like my brother at that age in that photo.

592
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,400
That freaks me the actual fuck out.

593
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,400
So... that's where I come in on that issue.

594
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,400
Just reminds me of my brother, so...

595
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:54,400
At 3:30, Kaine, who had been working from home that day, and Terri walked to Kyron's bus stop.

596
00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:02,400
The bus driver told them that Kyron had not boarded the bus and suggested they call the school.

597
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,400
The school secretary Susan Hall informed them that he had been marked absent for the day.

598
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:13,400
No one called the parents about Kyron's absence because...

599
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,400
Terri had stated he had a medical or dental appointment.

600
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,400
She claimed to have mixed up the dates.

601
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:27,400
A lot was made about the school being partly responsible for Kyron not being reported missing sooner.

602
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:32,400
And here's my take. I know my high school sent out automated messages.

603
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:34,400
Also Cassie's high school.

604
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,400
I was just being really possessive of our high school there for a second.

605
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,400
It's fine. I don't want it. You can have it.

606
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,400
I feel like not even just high school, like all like elementary school and everything they would call.

607
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,400
But I feel like the thing about the automated messages is that...

608
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:59,400
I don't think that parents could really count on those being perfectly timely in every case.

609
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,400
I think just generally went out...

610
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,400
It's like automated, like a Robo email.

611
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:06,400
Yes.

612
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:07,400
And then...

613
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,400
There's something that they do because I've gotten those calls like...

614
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,400
When my kids, I knew my kids were dropped off late.

615
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:20,400
But if you're not marked in class at a certain time, that automatically goes to the office.

616
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:27,400
And even if you show up after that, so they could possibly still mark you absent when you're really there.

617
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,400
Yeah.

618
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:37,400
I mean, the other thing that is a consideration for me, because I know that's kind of a common thing now where...

619
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:44,400
We're going to call the parents. We're going to notify the parents in some form or fashion when their kid is absent.

620
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:51,400
I know that's a typical thing now, but ultimately with budget cuts, increased class sizes,

621
00:35:51,400 --> 00:36:04,400
and all of the staffing shortages, I'm just not sure that most parents would be reasonable in holding too high of an expectation about receiving a call for any and every absence.

622
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:11,400
Like you said, I mean, there can be mistakes where they just show up late and then they're still being shown as absent all day.

623
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:12,400
Yeah.

624
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:18,400
I've had that happen. Like my bonus in middle school was like, I know he was late.

625
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,400
He didn't get dropped off to like 9:30 or 10 and then the...

626
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:27,400
I know they have an automated thing at like 11 that goes out and it's a call and it just...

627
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:33,400
It's weird too. It's like, your child, blah, blah, blah, has been marked absent for school.

628
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,400
Like it's very robotic.

629
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,400
There's this like, uh, okay.

630
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:39,400
Is this kind of...

631
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:54,400
I just think that's especially true given what seems like could be an obvious attempt on Terri's part to cause confusion about Kyron's attendance.

632
00:36:54,400 --> 00:37:01,400
No way. Now though, like, I really don't want to go for bed. Like I don't want to, but...

633
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,400
Yeah.

634
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:13,400
So, in case actual change so many things with schools in Oregon, especially in Portland because they added security, they added this little like...

635
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,400
You got to have a badge to get in or you got to be let in by a button.

636
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,400
There's... they do a lot more calls and stuff like that.

637
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,400
So this case totally...

638
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,400
And again, I think it's... Oh damn, I asked 2023.

639
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,400
I was going to keep forgetting 2023.

640
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:30,400
But this is in 2010.

641
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,400
So, you're a lot different.

642
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,400
Yeah. Absolutely.

643
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:42,400
The school secretary placed a call to 911 to report Kyron's disappearance at 3.46pm.

644
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:48,400
So, this is kind of a weird little detail just because...

645
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:55,400
Obviously, you've got a phone if you're on the phone with your kid's school, right?

646
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:05,400
And Terri is reported to have said, you know, basically asked the secretary, "Can you call 911 to report him missing?"

647
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,400
Huh. What?

648
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,400
Yeah, I don't know. I didn't call 911 before this.

649
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,400
Was there a reason like she had to stay on the phone with the school or...

650
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,400
Did he not have another phone?

651
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:24,400
Like, really good questions. Not a lot of answers on that.

652
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,400
I could understand maybe you're not thinking clearly if you're panicking and you're just like,

653
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,400
"Somebody call 911, you know what I mean?"

654
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:38,400
Yeah. I mean, if this was the only detail that didn't quite add up, maybe.

655
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:39,400
Yeah.

656
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,400
So they weren't at the school.

657
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,400
Like, Terri and Kaine were at the school. They called the school.

658
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,400
Because I thought at some point they did go to the school.

659
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:56,400
They do show up, I believe, somewhere at the school, but I believe it's like as part of the search.

660
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,400
Gotcha.

661
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:04,400
Yeah. I don't know that I have as like a specific time stamp for that as we go on.

662
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,400
Yeah.

663
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:13,400
But I don't know, y'all. I'm just like very far past the point of giving...

664
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,400
Well, they were together too.

665
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,400
Like, if he called and they were together at the bus stop, he's there.

666
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,400
He could have, when she's freaking out, he could have called.

667
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:24,400
Mm-hmm.

668
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:33,400
Yeah, I just feel like is there somebody that is going to know your child better?

669
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,400
I just, I don't know.

670
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,400
Like, I would just, I want to take charge of that.

671
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,400
Even if I'm freaking out, which of course you're freaking out.

672
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:42,400
Yeah.

673
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,400
But the nurse is not going to know anything.

674
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,400
Yeah.

675
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:46,400
Well, yeah.

676
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:53,400
And then you, there's, it's not on, on, on, on, or whatever to have multiple 911 calls come in for something.

677
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,400
Mm-hmm.

678
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,400
Yeah.

679
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:03,400
I don't know if it's very common to have multiple 911 calls like when you're reporting someone missing,

680
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:09,400
but that happens with a ton of different crimes and like, you know, so I don't know.

681
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:19,400
That's a really good point. By 5.30 p.m., a flash alert about his disappearance was sent out to Portland area public school parents.

682
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:27,400
By then, sargent Lee Gawson was alerting the county on call coordinator for search and rescue.

683
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:34,400
And that's Sergeant Travis Goldberg, at this time at least, to initiate a search.

684
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,400
The sheriff also alerted the FBI around this time.

685
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,400
Like they went zero to FBI.

686
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,400
Wow.

687
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:44,400
Okay.

688
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,400
Is that, is that usual?

689
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:49,400
Or is that common?

690
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:56,400
I mean, kids not even been missing for, well, I guess the kids missing all day.

691
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:57,400
Yeah.

692
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:05,400
And the kids missing all day, we've only known that he's missing for like 90 minutes.

693
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:06,400
Yeah.

694
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,400
So they jump like they are going, they are not driving 120 on the Audubon.

695
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,400
They are on Elon's rocket.

696
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,400
I wonder to about.

697
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,400
Did they take because for me.

698
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:28,400
I mean, not even two hours there was an alert that went out to the news.

699
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:39,400
So is that because I mean, one honestly is that because he was white or is that because the school called 911, like if the parents would have called 911, maybe.

700
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,400
I mean, because everybody told them they have to wait 24 hours to report someone missing.

701
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:44,400
Mm-hmm.

702
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:52,400
So I mean, I guess that's where you can kind of play Devils advocate a little bit that like maybe this was taken so much more seriously because.

703
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:57,400
It was like a call placed on behalf of the school.

704
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:06,400
I mean, the whiteness being a factor, you're getting zero argument from like 90% of people I would assume.

705
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,400
That plays a part.

706
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,400
I feel like.

707
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,400
Obviously.

708
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,400
Yeah.

709
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,400
There's a lot of evidence that it does.

710
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,400
Because I mean, I've never heard of this happening in.

711
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,400
You know, I just.

712
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:25,400
Well, the one episode I was just listening to of yours.

713
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,400
It's a recent one.

714
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,400
Oh my gosh.

715
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,400
I can't remember the little boy's name.

716
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,400
It's the little boy with the hair.

717
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:31,400
Lucian.

718
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,400
Oh, yeah, Lucian.

719
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:33,400
Yeah.

720
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,400
Yeah.

721
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,400
Yeah.

722
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:36,400
Yeah.

723
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,400
And that one was really.

724
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,400
I.

725
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,400
I can see now now that we know he's been found in everything.

726
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,400
I can see how that could happen.

727
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:56,400
But that's a whole other thing that I'm going to get into on my podcast is like they have a missing person alert for indigenous.

728
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:04,400
And it's supposed to be similar to an amber alert, but it's like the qualifications for it are ridiculous.

729
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,400
And I think I talked about that in my what happened with going on a Yakima episode.

730
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,400
The qualifications for it is just it makes no sense.

731
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,400
And actually speaking of amber alerts, do you know if amber alert was put out for Kyrann?

732
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:22,400
I probably have that here in my notes.

733
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,400
If if I found a record of it, I'm not sure I can't remember off the top of my head.

734
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:34,400
I think maybe the flash alert on the news channels could have been like even possibly better than the amber alert.

735
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,400
If you think about it.

736
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:41,400
Search teams arrived at Skyline Elementary just after 8 p.m.

737
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:48,400
Kyron's photo was sent out to local news outlets and then 8:25 searches began.

738
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:55,400
So again, this is just one of those things where it's kind of early days of like Facebook being.

739
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,400
I think my space went away in like 2009.

740
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,400
Yeah, I mean, 2010, 2011, 2012.

741
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,400
I feel like they did a lot of popularity.

742
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:12,400
Yeah, it's the first time that we're seeing in maybe disappearances and other types of crime.

743
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,400
Just average people that are actually using Facebook.

744
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,400
And it's kind of integrated in their lives.

745
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,400
And we know what Terri's social media habits were.

746
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,400
I mean, there's not a lot of cases.

747
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,400
This is kind of the dividing line, right?

748
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:39,400
Like in this era prior to 2010, probably we'd have no idea what your habits were online.

749
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,400
A little bit different going forward.

750
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:51,400
Additional searchers with mountain wave emergency communications arrived at the school about an hour later to assist in the search efforts.

751
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,400
So it's like, okay, one search party isn't enough.

752
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,400
We got lots of people out here.

753
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,400
We're going to call in more.

754
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:04,400
Okay, by 10.40 p.m., the indoor search of school property was complete and the hormone home had also been searched.

755
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,400
So they've been search search search in all night long.

756
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:17,400
Then 10:44 911 receives a tip from a caller indicating that the train tunnel near the elementary school should be searched,

757
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,400
which is like immediately I have chills because what?

758
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:26,400
But it's not as bad as you think it is.

759
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:31,400
Okay, the caller indicated that kids were often known to play down there.

760
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,400
And they just thought like, hey, did anybody think about this?

761
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:39,400
Like, I just want to make sure they know any surrounding areas that they should be checking out.

762
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,400
So it was a good, I mean, I think that was kind of just like a good Samaritan thing.

763
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,400
But immediately I was like, oh, great.

764
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,400
So now they're going to go to this tunnel and find little Kyron.

765
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,400
No, not good.

766
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,400
Day one of Kyron being missing came to a close without any answers.

767
00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:06,400
In the early hours of the following morning, Pacific Northwest search and rescue group was called in to help as well.

768
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:19,400
I think that it's probably nearly always a good call to get whatever additional assistance as well as fresh eyes as is available, especially after spending the whole night to know avail.

769
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:26,400
But like, how many more search and rescue groups do we even have like importantly?

770
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,400
I mean, come right.

771
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:29,400
It's just, it's a lot.

772
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,400
And it's one of those cases where it just makes you go like, great.

773
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:41,400
If we could just like a tenth of this on, you know, some of those ones where you insist that they're just run away, that'd be, that'd be cool.

774
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:42,400
Yeah.

775
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:51,400
Meanwhile, information regarding Kyron's disappearance is forwarded to the associated press and as far away as the UK.

776
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:52,400
Wow.

777
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,400
It's international in less than 24 hours.

778
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:57,400
That's crazy.

779
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:00,400
Which kind of makes me think, why do they do that?

780
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,400
Like, did they think he was going to get out of the country somehow?

781
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:06,400
Right?

782
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:19,400
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's just certain things about how this case was handled where it does make you wonder what pieces of information because you know there's always information that they're holding back.

783
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:19,400
Yep.

784
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,400
Kind of makes you wonder.

785
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,400
Help find my child.net was creating a page for Kyron.

786
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,400
So he's literally already got a whip page.

787
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,400
Wow.

788
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,400
In another country.

789
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:31,400
Wow.

790
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:38,400
Later that same day, local police established an official tip line before holding a press conference at noon.

791
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,400
So lots of goons on.

792
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:56,400
It was at this time that law enforcement attempted to reassure the public through this announcement by confirming Kyron was still a missing person's case rather than any type of criminal investigation.

793
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:03,400
So the wording on that's pretty important, but they're basically just trying to reassure the public.

794
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:07,400
Like, it's going to be okay. We're still assuming we're going to find him alive.

795
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:11,400
This is not a murder investigation yet.

796
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:12,400
Okay.

797
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:19,400
This is not a homicide that we're investigating by the evening of June 5th, just one day after going missing.

798
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:25,400
It was announced at a news conference that the National Guard and FBI had joined the search efforts for Kyron.

799
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:31,400
So that's when the public becomes aware of their involvement.

800
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,400
The grid search near Skyline Elementary School continued as well.

801
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,400
Before the day came to a close, the FBI page was created.

802
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,400
So multiple pages about Kyron by day two.

803
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:45,400
Wow.

804
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,400
Yeah. All I can say is wow.

805
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,400
I know.

806
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:49,400
This is happening really fast.

807
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:50,400
It really is.

808
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:59,400
It really is. This is one of the early cases that I recall when I was younger where social media really became an important piece of the puzzle.

809
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:07,400
And it's definitely one of those ones, like I said, I mean, for me, I look at the picture of him and I think it my little brother.

810
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:19,400
That's unique to me, but there's a lot about this case that I think for a lot of people, it forms like a cemented image and feeling and all that in your mind.

811
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,400
Yeah.

812
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:32,400
In fact, another important announcement would be shared by Terri on Facebook just before 9am on the very next day Sunday, June 6th.

813
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:37,400
She had ordered a thousand missing persons, flyers.

814
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:49,400
Which to me, the fact that you're already like ordering these flyers is it's great, but how do you know that they weren't going to find him overnight?

815
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,400
Yeah.

816
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:52,400
You know what I mean?

817
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,400
I mean, let's just get on it just in case.

818
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:56,400
Yeah.

819
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:00,400
I mean, I guess you can kind of play that either way, right?

820
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,400
Yeah.

821
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:08,400
Which I hate about every detail of this fucking case.

822
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:12,400
Great suggestion.

823
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,400
This actually was a write-in suggestion, so.

824
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,400
For me, I've been suggesting it.

825
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:24,400
Oh, well, yeah, a listener suggested it.

826
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:27,400
Do you know who can you say who?

827
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,400
I'd have to go back to the Google sheet to find out.

828
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,400
You know who you were.

829
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:39,400
Is a creepy person number 567?

830
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:47,400
Meanwhile, the FBI was not fucking around because that's not what the F stands for.

831
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,400
I mean, depends on who you ask, but whatever.

832
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,400
Anyways, they brought in a Quantico profiler that morning as well.

833
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,400
Shit.

834
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,400
Yeah.

835
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,400
I know I was like, Spencer Reid, right?

836
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,400
What the hell is that?

837
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,400
What's the Quantico profiler?

838
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,400
So have you ever seen criminal minds?

839
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:10,400
Yes.

840
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,400
It's one of those guys.

841
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,400
Why the hell would that be needed?

842
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,400
They do that a lot in the cases that the FBI becomes involved in.

843
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:27,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

844
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

845
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

846
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

847
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

848
00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:47,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

849
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:53,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

850
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

851
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:01,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

852
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:05,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

853
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:09,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

854
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

855
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,400
And then they're like, what do you think about the FBI?

856
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,400
All four parents, both biological and step parents,

857
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,400
appeared in a news conference on the sixth as well.

858
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,400
The Portland Public School District Superintendent, Carol Smith,

859
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,400
held a news conference at 330 on the sixth,

860
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,400
regarding steps the district was taking in terms of student safety

861
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,400
and school security in the wake of this incident.

862
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,400
So what Carmita said?

863
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,400
Sunday night, the sheriff escalated Kyron's case

864
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,400
to a missing endangered child.

865
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:58,400
So I'm not really sure what the difference is,

866
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,400
but they were like, yeah, it's more seriouser.

867
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,400
Okay.

868
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,400
Yeah, that's weird.

869
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:08,400
Yeah, I don't know.

870
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,400
Is it like the amount of time that's gone by or?

871
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,400
I don't know. I'm not really sure what they base that classification on.

872
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:19,400
So I mean, that might be something to do a little bit,

873
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,400
a bit of a side goug about.

874
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,400
Less than a week later, on June 11th,

875
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,400
the search expanded to Savvy Island,

876
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:31,400
where it would continue until June 13th.

877
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:33,400
Once that search had concluded,

878
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:37,400
the sheriff held a press conference announcing that they would be shifting

879
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,400
to a criminal investigation.

880
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,400
No.

881
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,400
They also indicated that there was interest in any video footage

882
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:51,400
taken around several roads near Skyline on the date of Kyron's disappearance.

883
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:57,400
They even went so far as to send divers into the water at Sauvie's Island

884
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:01,400
in the channel north of the bridge the following day.

885
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:05,400
Do you think they got like a tip or something they found something that?

886
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,400
I'm not sure. You wouldn't know, but.

887
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,400
I think they got a tip.

888
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:11,400
They tried to work, right?

889
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:17,400
Yeah, it wasn't tip and then there was a violation that

890
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,400
Terri's cell phone,

891
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,400
pinged like the cell phone tower ping.

892
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:27,400
Yeah. I mean, I do know that there were some things they could document based on

893
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:31,400
her cell phone records.

894
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,400
Because they really ultimately, of course, in this case, nothing was recovered

895
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,400
from this search, right?

896
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:43,400
I didn't go into the details on that because it doesn't really add to anything.

897
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,400
We didn't find anything probative out there on Sauvie Island.

898
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:49,400
They spent a lot of time out there.

899
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:55,400
Anything that they maybe would have found that was probative, assuming they did,

900
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,400
they're holding it back at the very least.

901
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,400
So I don't know, it's a tough one.

902
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:05,400
Divers were also sent out to search a pond near the Horman home.

903
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,400
Oh, which is...

904
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,400
That's like, yeah, I don't like that.

905
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,400
Yeah.

906
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:19,400
It wasn't until right around the last day of school, June 15th, that a photo of glasses,

907
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:23,400
similar to those that Kyron wore, was released.

908
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,400
There's been no small amount of speculation surrounding these glasses.

909
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,400
Speculation about...spectacles.

910
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,400
Speculation?

911
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,400
Yeah.

912
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,400
Yeah, spectacle speculation.

913
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,400
Some believe they just wanted to give the public more information.

914
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:49,400
But others felt it was perhaps a not-so-subtle way of indicating that Kyron's glasses had been found.

915
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:51,400
Oh!

916
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:59,400
The latter, since they also released a computer-generated photo of Kyron without the glasses.

917
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,400
I don't remember it.

918
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:03,400
Yeah, I remember it.

919
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:05,400
I think I remember seeing that one.

920
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,400
It's pretty spooky.

921
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:13,400
I mean, just the fact that you're showing the glasses, right?

922
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:19,400
While assuming that Kyron still has his glasses, you'll recognize him better than the glasses.

923
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,400
Why do I need to see a picture of the glasses?

924
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,400
Yeah.

925
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,400
I don't know.

926
00:56:25,400 --> 00:56:27,400
Yeah, that's weird.

927
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,400
Pure speculation.

928
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,400
But they never said that they were found or anything.

929
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,400
No. They have not confirmed if that's the case.

930
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:35,400
They have not denied.

931
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,400
Mm-hmm.

932
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:47,400
I mean, the one thing that you could argue is that, you know, they really wanted to make sure you had every possible recent detail, those types of things.

933
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:57,400
I mean, except then there's the fact that they literally had a photo taken the actual day of his disappearance.

934
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:05,400
So I think it's a relatively safe assumption that, like, you know, they're not going to say it, but they found the glasses.

935
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,400
Oh.

936
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,400
Because they have the most recent photo and he was wearing the glasses.

937
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,400
Yeah.

938
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,400
I don't know.

939
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:29,400
I actually continued to dig if I could see any additional information about his glasses and whether they did actually confirm at some point, whether, you know, maybe they were recovered and they didn't initially share with the public.

940
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,400
But now we know that.

941
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,400
No dice.

942
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:34,400
So I don't know.

943
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,400
If anybody happens to have more information on that, let us know.

944
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,400
I mean, I couldn't find it.

945
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:43,400
I went deep.

946
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,400
Yeah.

947
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:47,400
Yeah.

948
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:51,400
We were just kidding earlier about all the stuff that was like, you know, less than glowing.

949
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,400
It's like just, you know, come chat with us here.

950
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,400
Sure, that'll totally happen.

951
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:12,400
Also on June the 15th, 30 billboards related to Kyron's disappearance went up throughout the Portland metro area and a vigil was held.

952
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,400
30 big ass billboards.

953
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,400
Mm-hmm.

954
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:18,400
That's expensive.

955
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,400
Yeah.

956
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:22,400
Like a couple grand, I think it's photo billboarded up.

957
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,400
I mean, back then.

958
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,400
Yeah.

959
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,400
I mean, back then, I think it was a couple grand.

960
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:30,400
I don't even know what it would be now, but.

961
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:32,400
Who paid for that?

962
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,400
I.

963
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,400
Jack Spares, but they are not going to say that.

964
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:47,400
Um, actually, I remember reading that there was, gosh, and I might not be remembering everything totally accurately.

965
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:52,400
I didn't include it as I recall because they like didn't share the name of the person.

966
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,400
It just felt weird.

967
00:58:54,400 --> 00:59:00,400
Um, but I think some of them were donated by somebody who owned like a billboard company.

968
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,400
But I mean, whether or not that's true.

969
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:10,400
That's another one of those things where sometimes I'm like, this could add some spice, but I also don't know like how accurate that is.

970
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,400
So.

971
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:12,400
Okay.

972
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:18,400
So, I mean, the detail that I find really interesting is the vigil.

973
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:22,400
Just because it's been like two weeks, right?

974
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:29,400
But it's almost immediately after they say that like they're turning this to a criminal investigation.

975
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:30,400
Wow.

976
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:35,400
So I mean, yeah, it's clear everybody knows what that means, right?

977
00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:36,400
Yeah.

978
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:45,400
Yeah, because a lot of people think vigils are for people who died rather than people get kidnapped.

979
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:53,400
Was that what people were like treating the vigil as is like, he passed or just like maybe like a hopeful thing?

980
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,400
I'm sure it was a mixture at this point because it's still very fresh.

981
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:06,400
I'm sure that some people are attending saying like we should, you know, still have, you know, hope that he's alive and he'll be found and.

982
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:13,400
And then some people were like, look, we all know how this is probably going to go.

983
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:26,400
Photos of a truck similar to the one that Terri had driven Kyron to school in were released alongside photos of Terri and Kyron on a flyer.

984
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:32,400
But law enforcement insisted that was approved by the family.

985
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:43,400
And that it had not been intended to imply any guilt only provide people with as much information about the case as possible in a very succinct manner.

986
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:47,400
And if that was their true aim, it sure did backfire.

987
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,400
I mean, at least in one respect.

988
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:55,400
Because people started to really feel differently about Terri.

989
01:00:55,400 --> 01:01:01,400
Why would they need to release her what she looks like in her car?

990
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:09,400
That's a real good question, Cassie. Why would they? Why would they release pictures of a truck that's not hers?

991
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:15,400
I mean, it was the vehicle he was last seen in.

992
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:22,400
I think it points to a shift in mentality about Terri's potential guilt.

993
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:26,400
Why isn't the truck in Kaine's name?

994
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,400
Yeah, it's Kaine's truck.

995
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:38,400
But like, just picture it's like, this is the mom who like now all of a sudden, I mean stepmom, it's a stepmom.

996
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:44,400
Everybody is going to like already be suspecting because when a kid goes missing, you know, it's step parents.

997
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:51,400
Right. And then the truck and you're like, hmm, yeah, that doesn't it looks like basically like,

998
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,400
like a wanted poster. You know what I mean?

999
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:59,400
Like look for these all together that type of thing.

1000
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,400
Exactly.

1001
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:03,400
Huh.

1002
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,400
And that's what they meant to do apparently.

1003
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:08,400
Okay.

1004
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:12,400
So maybe they know something we don't.

1005
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:32,400
A couple of weeks later on Saturday, June 26th at 5:17 p.m., a 911 call initially classified as a threat call came in from the hormone home, which I would be interested to learn more about the classification of 911 calls.

1006
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,400
That's real interesting.

1007
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:44,400
On July 5, 1939, p.m., a second call classified as a custody issue call was also made.

1008
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:50,400
This is the date that Kane took the couple's young daughter and moved out of the house.

1009
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,400
What?

1010
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:57,400
By June 28th, he had filed for divorce.

1011
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,400
No.

1012
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,400
Really?

1013
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:02,400
I guess worse.

1014
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:20,400
Oh, it does. Here's the thing is this is another one of those situations where you could say, of course they're going to have issues, you know, there is no greater stress that you could put on a marriage then, like losing a child or having a child go missing.

1015
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:21,400
Yeah.

1016
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:25,400
But eventually if you think your spouse is responsible.

1017
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:32,400
Yeah, and he took the daughter and she let like she let him take her.

1018
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:40,400
So I mean, 911 was called that second time and it was classified as a custody issue.

1019
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,400
How much she let anybody do anything?

1020
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:47,400
Well, I think that's also two because it's not they're married.

1021
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:50,400
So it's not like he kidnapped the baby.

1022
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:59,400
I mean, you can as a custodial parent technically still kidnap your child, but that's neither, you know, we won't even go there.

1023
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:10,400
Terri would claim when questioned by reporters that Kaine and her daughter had not moved out of the house and that the claims regarding the divorce filing were also false.

1024
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,400
Right.

1025
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,400
Right.

1026
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:20,400
So I'm assuming since you're adding it in your notes, that is probably true.

1027
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,400
Yeah, there's like public.

1028
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,400
I mean, kindness.

1029
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:26,400
Kind of.

1030
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:27,400
Yeah.

1031
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:28,400
Yeah.

1032
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:35,400
Kaine's divorce petition was granted and Terri was allowed supervised visitation of their daughter.

1033
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:36,400
Wow.

1034
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,400
So interesting little factoids there.

1035
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:47,400
So you can see based on the timeline of events, how the tables swiftly began to turn against Terri.

1036
01:04:47,400 --> 01:04:50,400
These records were sealed.

1037
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,400
Why?

1038
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:53,400
Great question.

1039
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:57,400
I bet you the contents of the records could tell you why they wanted to have them sealed.

1040
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:58,400
Right.

1041
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:08,400
That same date, June 28th, the Sheriff's Office releases a statement from the other three parents, but did not include Terri's name.

1042
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:15,400
Terri's failure of two polygraphs related to Kyron's disappearance would also become public knowledge.

1043
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:16,400
What?

1044
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:21,400
So again, things are being set.

1045
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:33,400
Even if it's, you know, not an official announcement focusing specifically on certain details, there's some you get it in there because people are picking up on what's missing.

1046
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:40,400
You're reading between the lines specifically that something is up.

1047
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:41,400
Yeah.

1048
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,400
How do you fail to polygraph tests?

1049
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:44,400
It's a really good question.

1050
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:49,400
I thought that they were supposed to be really easy to fake and pass.

1051
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:51,400
Right.

1052
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:54,400
That's what I have heard.

1053
01:05:54,400 --> 01:06:02,400
Now, obviously, I think pretty much every true crime podcaster out there has probably told you how polygraphs are bullshit.

1054
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:10,400
Not admissible or I mean, at the exactly at the very least, they're not actual evidence.

1055
01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:11,400
Yeah.

1056
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:13,400
But still necessarily.

1057
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:20,400
It wasn't until Sunday, July 4th that the rollercoaster really picked up speed again.

1058
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:35,400
The Oregonian reporter, Maxine Burstein, revealed that a landscaper that had worked for the Hormann family shared with her that he had been solicited by Terry in a murder for higher plot.

1059
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,400
What?

1060
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:38,400
Yolp.

1061
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:40,400
For who did he say who?

1062
01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:41,400
Oh boy.

1063
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:42,400
Yeah.

1064
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:43,400
Yeah.

1065
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:50,400
The man and most importantly, landscaper, okay, this title is important.

1066
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:54,400
In question is Rudolfo Sanchez.

1067
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:56,400
He had worked at the family home.

1068
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:01,400
So he did in fact, no Terri, I mean the whole family.

1069
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:08,400
In a deposition, he testified that this had taken place in January of 2010.

1070
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,400
Shit.

1071
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,400
That was her new resolution.

1072
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:13,400
They're right.

1073
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:14,400
Right?

1074
01:07:14,400 --> 01:07:16,400
Yeah, it's not the gym.

1075
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:17,400
Oh damn.

1076
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:28,400
Investigators tried to get a recorded confession for this alleged crime, but they were unable to substantiate the story and no legal action was taken against Terri.

1077
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,400
Okay.

1078
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,400
So do you want to know who?

1079
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:32,400
Yeah.

1080
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,400
None other than Kaine, of course.

1081
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:36,400
Right?

1082
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:37,400
Yeah.

1083
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:42,400
She's out here, Nancy Brophy.

1084
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:43,400
God.

1085
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:50,400
She's got some balls to just walk up to her landscaper and be like, hey, I want to kill somebody for me.

1086
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:51,400
Yeah.

1087
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:52,400
Yeah.

1088
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:54,400
I couldn't have worked with that.

1089
01:07:54,400 --> 01:07:56,400
But I think that's speculation too.

1090
01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,400
Well, here's the thing.

1091
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:07,400
What's crazy is that this was not the only murder for higher plot Terri has been connected to over the years.

1092
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,400
Well, now I'm not surprised.

1093
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:19,400
We just literally don't have time for that shit because it doesn't pertain to the case at all, but it was pretty wild to read about.

1094
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:23,400
So I'm going to link to that directly in the show notes.

1095
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:26,400
Had you heard about that, Carmita?

1096
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:27,400
No.

1097
01:08:27,400 --> 01:08:28,400
Yeah.

1098
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:32,400
Do you get into the affair?

1099
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,400
Which one?

1100
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:34,400
The landscaper?

1101
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:35,400
Yeah.

1102
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:36,400
Yeah.

1103
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:37,400
Everyone in the neighborhood?

1104
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:38,400
That's fair.

1105
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:39,400
Yeah.

1106
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:43,400
There's like her marriage to Kaine started as an affair.

1107
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,400
I mean, it's a lot.

1108
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:48,400
Yeah.

1109
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:51,400
Everybody in this story be fucking pretty much.

1110
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:52,400
Yeah.

1111
01:08:52,400 --> 01:09:01,400
By mid-July, Terri had agreed to vacate the home and moved back to Roseburg to live at her parents home.

1112
01:09:01,400 --> 01:09:08,400
Still police continued applying pressure to a small circle of Terri's friends, including her bestie, Dee Dee.

1113
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,400
Dee Dee.

1114
01:09:10,400 --> 01:09:12,400
Yeah, she's shiny.

1115
01:09:12,400 --> 01:09:13,400
She's shiny.

1116
01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:14,400
You know, here's the thing.

1117
01:09:14,400 --> 01:09:18,400
I find, Dee Dee's tend to be.

1118
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:21,400
I don't know any Dee Dee's.

1119
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:22,400
I don't know.

1120
01:09:22,400 --> 01:09:26,400
I don't know, but I think she was, um, Gypsy Rose's mom's name as well, isn't it?

1121
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:27,400
Was it?

1122
01:09:27,400 --> 01:09:28,400
I don't fucking know.

1123
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:30,400
She's like, I don't watch that kind of shit.

1124
01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:32,400
I only talk about this shit with you.

1125
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:36,400
I did watch the documentary in the movie or show they made about it.

1126
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,400
But I don't remember the...

1127
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:39,400
Okay.

1128
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:41,400
I was going to say so literally you do.

1129
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:42,400
You'll lie.

1130
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:43,400
Yeah.

1131
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,400
Sorry, Dee Dee's, if you're listening.

1132
01:09:45,400 --> 01:09:47,400
Sorry, not sorry.

1133
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:52,400
The previous week they had even searched her home.

1134
01:09:52,400 --> 01:09:53,400
Dee Dee's home.

1135
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:54,400
Terri's best friend.

1136
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:55,400
Okay.

1137
01:09:55,400 --> 01:09:56,400
Huh.

1138
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:57,400
Interesting.

1139
01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:58,400
Guys, do the...

1140
01:09:58,400 --> 01:09:59,400
Huh.

1141
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:00,400
With me.

1142
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:01,400
Huh.

1143
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,400
They obviously had a reason too.

1144
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,400
They don't just give warrants out for no reason.

1145
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:08,400
Yeah.

1146
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:11,400
Well, some interesting associations.

1147
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:12,400
You see my association?

1148
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:15,400
Hey, I will.

1149
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:18,400
It's a pretty strong association.

1150
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,400
Some interesting details came to light.

1151
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,400
On the date of Kyron's disappearance at 11.30 a.m.,

1152
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:29,400
she left her gardening duties for approximately 90 minutes.

1153
01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:30,400
Huh.

1154
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:38,400
About 90 minutes is the amount of time that is unaccounted for in Terri's morning as well.

1155
01:10:38,400 --> 01:10:39,400
Yeah.

1156
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,400
I remember you saying that.

1157
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:42,400
Huh.

1158
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:46,400
She hadn't been present when calls came into the home.

1159
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:51,400
One was from another employee that was working at the home and the other was from the homeowner.

1160
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:55,400
So she's literally at her job, her landscaping job.

1161
01:10:55,400 --> 01:10:59,400
Why are there so many landscapers being so shady?

1162
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:00,400
Yeah.

1163
01:11:00,400 --> 01:11:04,400
I was just like, what is going on?

1164
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:10,400
Dee Dee was also rumored to have helped Terri procure an untraceable cell phone.

1165
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,400
Basically just a burner phone.

1166
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:15,400
Just like a cheap ass phone.

1167
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:16,400
Right.

1168
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:20,400
I have a follow up questions for Dee Dee.

1169
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:24,400
But let's circle back to the landscaper murder for higher plot.

1170
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:30,400
Apparently Kaine didn't know that they had a landscaper.

1171
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,400
I run burgundy.

1172
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:37,400
Is he just gone all day and she's like, I did all the gardening and he's like, OK.

1173
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,400
No, I thought he worked for home.

1174
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:40,400
Uh-huh.

1175
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:41,400
Oh.

1176
01:11:41,400 --> 01:11:44,400
I mean, he did that day.

1177
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:46,400
I don't know if he did every day.

1178
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,400
But here's just weirdness, weirdness, OK.

1179
01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:58,400
Terri's son was supposed to be responsible for the maintenance and all of like the yard work around the property.

1180
01:11:58,400 --> 01:11:59,400
Oh.

1181
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:04,400
Seems like it could have been a big job for a teenager.

1182
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:16,400
But at any rate, before he drifted too far from our minds, I wanted to be sure to tell you all to put a pin in this whole landscaping debacle that seems to have materialized.

1183
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,400
Kaine doesn't know that they have a landscaper.

1184
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,400
The landscaper is supposed to be Terri's son.

1185
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:29,400
Well, I heard they said that because they had like acres of property.

1186
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:33,400
Like, how is a teenage boy going to get it take care of acres of property?

1187
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:34,400
Yeah.

1188
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,400
I don't know that it was like multiple acres.

1189
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,400
I think it may have been like a, you know, like half-acre lot.

1190
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:45,400
I don't, I don't remember if I made a note specifically of like the size of the property.

1191
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:52,400
I think regardless, that's kind of a lot to just ask of like, you know, one teenage kid.

1192
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:55,400
But what do I know?

1193
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:56,400
Huh.

1194
01:12:56,400 --> 01:13:01,400
Anyway, Terri's BFFDD was also questioned by a grand jury.

1195
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:06,400
'Cause it turns out I wasn't the only one with follow-up questions for DB.

1196
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:15,400
But oddly, she would plead the fifth fairly frequently in a way that honestly seems pretty suspicious.

1197
01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:28,400
She does so even when they're super basic questions, she should be able to respond to like whether she or Terri had anything to do with Kyron's disappearance.

1198
01:13:28,400 --> 01:13:30,400
She can't just say no.

1199
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:32,400
She can't just say no.

1200
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:38,400
Girl, like pleading the fifth in that situation actually confirms your guilt.

1201
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:39,400
Oh my god.

1202
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:40,400
To me.

1203
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:41,400
Yeah.

1204
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:42,400
Yeah.

1205
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:48,400
Not a doctor, not a lawyer, but did she have a lawyer like telling her?

1206
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:50,400
I just think that.

1207
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,400
I don't know who is advising someone to plead the fifth in that case.

1208
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,400
We know Terri gets a lawyer, but I don't know about this.

1209
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:57,400
Terri does.

1210
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:58,400
Yeah.

1211
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:00,400
And then, Terri, are you okay?

1212
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:11,400
It wouldn't be until nearly two years to the date after Kyron's disappearance that his mother Desiree would bring a lawsuit in civil court.

1213
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:17,400
Claiming Terri was responsible for Kyron's disappearance and presumed demise.

1214
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:29,400
She sought $10 million in damages, but eventually dropped the lawsuit stating she didn't want it to interfere with the police investigation in any way.

1215
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:30,400
Okay.

1216
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:41,400
Just interesting because they had to have reached out to her to say that there was anything worth a damn going on in the case for her to be willing to do that.

1217
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,400
I would think.

1218
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:48,400
But now it's been how many fucking years on there's still nothing happening.

1219
01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:50,400
I know.

1220
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:59,400
A couple of years further down the line in 2014, Terri attempted to change her name to Claire Stella Sullivan.

1221
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:00,400
Nice choice.

1222
01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:01,400
That's such a name.

1223
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,400
Delay!

1224
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:03,400
Yeah.

1225
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:05,400
I don't know.

1226
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:15,400
I mean, it's just weird to me because maybe Desiree is just like, I should drop the lawsuit like regardless of whether or not they have anything.

1227
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:23,400
Because even if it's 10 years down the line, I don't want it to jeopardize the actual criminal case.

1228
01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:24,400
I don't know.

1229
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:25,400
Yeah.

1230
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:26,400
That makes sense.

1231
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,400
Clearly, Terri was thinking about other stuff.

1232
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:34,400
Like, what kind of a beer should I rebrand myself as?

1233
01:15:34,400 --> 01:15:39,400
Oh my gosh.

1234
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:41,400
Did she actually change her name?

1235
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,400
I believe that request was denied.

1236
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:46,400
It was denied by the judge.

1237
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:47,400
Good.

1238
01:15:47,400 --> 01:16:02,400
That was months prior to Terri finding work in an assisted living facility in December of 2014, which seems like a great job opportunity for someone who may have been involved in the disappearance of a child.

1239
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:06,400
Put her in charge of vulnerable people like the elderly.

1240
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:07,400
Yeah.

1241
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:09,400
I don't like that.

1242
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,400
Cool.

1243
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,400
She quit in 2015.

1244
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:19,400
And then there was more drama with the people claiming to be adults in Kyron's life.

1245
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:26,400
So to be clear, we're just dragging Terri on that account right now.

1246
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:33,400
Anyway, in August 2015, Terri is charged with a theft of her male roommate's gun.

1247
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:44,400
This may have been a boyfriend, but who really cares about the details of her love life, unless they somehow are materially relevant and help bring Kyron home?

1248
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:45,400
Am I right?

1249
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:46,400
Right.

1250
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:47,400
Literally couldn't care.

1251
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:52,400
Hopefully she doesn't do her murder plot for any of her.

1252
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:56,400
She was going by Terry molten at this time.

1253
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,400
Molten is like, I can't like lava.

1254
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:06,400
I think of like molting like animals that molt.

1255
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:07,400
Gross.

1256
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:19,400
Anyhow, she had previously moved away from Portland by this time and this man has stated he was unaware of her proximity to the sketchy situation around Kyron's disappearance.

1257
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,400
Oh, you mean she didn't tell him?

1258
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:22,400
Right.

1259
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:23,400
I know.

1260
01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:24,400
Weird, right?

1261
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:25,400
I don't know.

1262
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:27,400
Yeah, how did you not?

1263
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:28,400
Yeah.

1264
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:33,400
There's people in the UK creating websites, but you know, he just missed that memo.

1265
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:36,400
I mean, I guess I don't know what she looks like.

1266
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:37,400
Yeah.

1267
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:38,400
You could mention it.

1268
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:48,400
I mean, in like in the 2010 to the 2015, those, those years, there was not a lot of people that did not know what this woman looked like.

1269
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:49,400
I will say that.

1270
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:51,400
She's not pretty.

1271
01:17:51,400 --> 01:17:54,400
Also, I would say that too.

1272
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,400
Carmita beat me to it.

1273
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:58,400
You clever girl.

1274
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:01,400
I was like, damn it.

1275
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,400
And I'm mad she said it first.

1276
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:07,400
Oh, my brain.

1277
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,400
You can't have all the fun.

1278
01:18:09,400 --> 01:18:10,400
I know.

1279
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:18,400
Desiree and her many supporters hung flyers in the new area where Terri lived so that people in the community would be aware of her past.

1280
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,400
And also because she's a savage.

1281
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:23,400
And I love it.

1282
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:24,400
I love it.

1283
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:25,400
That's awesome.

1284
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:26,400
Yeah.

1285
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:33,400
Terry failed to appear in court initially in connection to the gun theft because that is what makes it better.

1286
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:36,400
My committed crime and then don't even show up in court.

1287
01:18:36,400 --> 01:18:39,400
That's what, that's what you should do.

1288
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,400
But eventually it was resolved in 2017.

1289
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,400
Again, I rolled whatever Terri.

1290
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:54,400
Kyron Horman was born September 9th of 2002 and has been missing since June 4th of 2010.

1291
01:18:54,400 --> 01:19:03,400
It's an incredibly sad story but what is wild is that there is a connection to a case of two other missing children.

1292
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:05,400
Remember Rudolfo?

1293
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:08,400
Landscaper.

1294
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,400
Allegedly of the Horman household.

1295
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:12,400
Okay.

1296
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:17,400
Well, that's actually why we've teamed up with Missing in the PNW.

1297
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:18,400
Oh.

1298
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:23,400
With Carmita to tell you a bit more.

1299
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:25,400
Okay.

1300
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:26,400
Just remember you guys.

1301
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:33,400
We're going to link in the show notes so that you can find Missing in the PNW, the lovely Carmita's episode.

1302
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:35,400
The second half.

1303
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:38,400
These are like a combined deal.

1304
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:41,400
You got to go and check out both.

1305
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:42,400
Yes.

1306
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:44,400
And her half will have the tarot reading in it.

1307
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:46,400
So you definitely want to check it out.

1308
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:48,400
It was a really good one.

1309
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:49,400
Holy shit.

1310
01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:50,400
Yeah.

1311
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:51,400
Cause we're coming you from the future.

1312
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:53,400
We already did it and we know.

1313
01:19:53,400 --> 01:19:54,400
Yeah.

1314
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:56,400
Have a creepy day.

1315
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:57,400
Have a creepy day.

1316
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:02,400
And remember have fun, but be safe.

1317
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:03,400
Please.

1318
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,400
For the love of God.

1319
01:20:05,400 --> 01:20:06,400
Peace it.

1320
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,400
And why guys and trips.

1321
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:11,400
Yeah.

1322
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:20,400
So for all of you that are listening, if you have any true crime or paranormal stories that you want us to share, maybe with the whole Pacific Northwest.

1323
01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:21,400
Yes.

1324
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,400
We would love to read them on the pod.

1325
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:24,400
Yes.

1326
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:27,400
We will read them out loud.

1327
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,400
Not just in our heads.

1328
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:30,400
Yes.

1329
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,400
They don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest.

1330
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:41,400
If you would like to share, email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com.

1331
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:43,400
It's all spelled out.

1332
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:45,400
No special characters.

1333
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:47,400
Super duper easy peasy.

1334
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,400
Follow us on Instagram and Facebook.

1335
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:55,400
Same thing is the email @pnwhauntsandhomicides all spelled out. pnwhauntsandhomicides.com

1336
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:57,400
No special characters.

1337
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:01,400
Please also rate and review us on whatever platform you're listening to.

1338
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:07,400
And check out our stories on social media because our meme game is hot.

1339
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:08,400
Agreed.

1340
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:14,400
And if you agree, like Caitlyn, you can also find us on Patreon and support the show.

1341
01:21:14,400 --> 01:21:15,400
Bitchin.

1342
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,400
[laughs]

1343
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:18,400
[laughs]

1344
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:28,400
[music]

1345
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:55,400
[music]

1346
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:56,400
What was that?

1347
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:59,400
Is that are you guys social butterflies?

1348
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:01,400
I can't even talk now.

1349
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:03,400
She was like, "Are you guys social butt?"

1350
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:04,400
[laughs]

1351
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:05,400
But.

1352
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:09,400
We just made some butt jokes in our last episode.