Bitter Almonds & Betrayal – The PNW Poisoner

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If nobody else dies, then it looks like just your husband and just your bottle.

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And they look a lot closer at that.

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Yeah.

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And they're going to start with the assumption that, yeah, probably that was tainted, probably

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that was tampered with.

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And I think the call may be coming from inside the house.

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[Music]

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Hi, Cassie.

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Hi, Caitlyn.

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Hi, creepy people.

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Hello!

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Hello!

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This is so weird.

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I know.

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[Laughter]

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We're not together.

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[Laughter]

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Oh, oh, oh, what a year.

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Oh wait, I said it wrong.

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Oh, holy shit, what a year.

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[Laughter]

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I was like, wait, something was missing.

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You're like, that's not quite right.

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I love it.

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Should we introduce the show?

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We didn't finish the intro, yeah.

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That's fine.

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It's a little unhinged today because our routine is thrown off.

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Okay.

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And beneath the layers and layers of ADHD, there may be something else a little neuro-spicy.

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in our makeup and we just can't.

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We simply can't.

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We can't.

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We can't.

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We can't.

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It's fine.

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If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where

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we chat about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.

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And we do a terror reading at the end of every episode for a little deeper insight

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into our topic for the day.

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Make sure you stick around if you're into that kind of thing.

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All right, Cassie, are you ready?

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I am caffeinated.

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I have gotten all my sillies out, so I think I'm ready.

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Excellent.

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On June 11th, just after 6.30 a.m., 15-year-old Hayley Snow would find her 40-year-old mother.

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Sue Snow had collapsed in the bathroom with a weak pulse.

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Oh, snow?

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I know.

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I love that.

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I know.

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I'm lusher in the Hunger Games, I guess.

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That's a bad snow, right?

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Oh, yeah.

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I'm thinking of snow.

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I know.

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Oh, that's a good snow.

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Also, regular snow is really pretty and cool.

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I know.

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I want some snow.

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Just like a little bit.

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I'm really just trying to focus on the cuteness of this name.

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Yeah.

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Because I don't want to get rest.

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Well, though paramedics had rushed her to the hospital in Seattle by helicopter, she

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would pass away without being able to say goodbye to her daughter, nor her husband, Paul

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Webkin.

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He was a long haul trucker and had been on the road when he got the call.

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Oh, how awful.

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I know.

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Oh, there's nothing you can do.

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I mean, there's nothing you can do anyway, but just like being far away.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And when he showed up at the hospital, I don't think that he really understood the seriousness

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of the situation.

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Oh, yeah, which is kind of a, that's a tough blow.

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Yeah.

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But just 15, Haley Snow had lost her mother who she was incredibly close to.

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She didn't refer to her mother as mom or by her first name as some teenagers might in a

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show of teenage rebellion.

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She still called Sue Mommy.

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Oh, I call my mommy Mommy all the time.

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I know.

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I love my mommy.

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Sue had grown up in the American Southwest before relocating to the state of Washington eventually.

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She worked as a bank teller, but was eventually promoted multiple times while she worked to

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attain her GED.

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Sue had married her second husband, Paul, on Thanksgiving 1985.

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Oh, can you imagine the wedding meal?

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Oh, yeah.

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Well, it's just so bizarre because I was researching this case right around Thanksgiving.

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Oh.

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And when I learned that, I had been listening to Live Laugh Larsonies Thanksgiving episode

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and I was like, stop.

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What?

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Oh, because I've read and listened to like so much different like source material and

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different podcasts and documentaries about this case over the years.

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And I've never heard that detail.

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And then right around Thanksgiving, I found that out.

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They got married on Thanksgiving.

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Oh, it's just proof that you're on the right track.

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I, yeah.

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As charming as that all-mate sound, Sue's life before her untimely death wasn't completely

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devoid of conflict.

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Obviously, she had been previously married prior to Paul to a man named Connie.

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In fact, this man was Haley's father.

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Their marriage had ended, though not for lack of trying, it seems.

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But ultimately, Sue's infidelity was a likely contributing factor.

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And I say that not to demonize her far from it, but because it's important to understand

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that many of the real people that we talk about in all of these cases, they contain

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multitudes.

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Yeah.

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Just like living people, I mean, right?

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We all got shit.

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Yeah, you're a real person and life happens.

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Before Sue was airlifted from Auburn and taken to Seattle's Harborview Hospital, the

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tables would be turned.

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Her husband, Paul, had an affair with his high school girlfriend, Mary, though it was

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reportedly several months prior to Sue's death.

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Oh.

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Sue's autopsy would later reveal the presence of cyanide.

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What?

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Thankfully, though the patient showed no obvious signs of toxicity, the Emmy did run a

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tox screen to test for it.

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Better almonds and betrayal.

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Ooh, bitter almonds.

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What does that mean?

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That's what cyanide smells like to the percentage of the population that can smell it.

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I don't even really know what cyanide is.

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I mean, I know it's like a poison.

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But are you going to go like, what are the use of for what's up with cyanide?

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Cyanide used to be in a lot of really mundane products and things that people came into contact

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with.

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We will talk about a couple of things that it is or has been found in, but I'm going

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to say that.

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Okay.

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For now, just picture like the cyanide capsules that the Nazis reportedly had.

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Oh, that's right.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Yeah.

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You don't need a lot of it, depending on the purity for it to be effective.

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God, how do people even get that shit?

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Well, I'm sure you'll go into it.

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Yeah.

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The day of Sue's funeral detectives searched the home with Paul's permission to do so.

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He felt he had nothing to hide and was quite willing to cooperate with investigators.

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In fact, he was rarely anything if not forthcoming.

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That's a good sign, right?

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Even early on in the investigation, he expressed concern that his wife's sudden death bore a

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startling resemblance to that of the victims of the 1982 Tylenol tampering murders in

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Chicago.

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What?

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He remembered that?

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That's kind of an odd.

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This was only a handful of years later.

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Oh, okay.

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That's true.

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Okay.

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Yeah, it was pretty fresh in the nation's consciousness, I would say.

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That sounds terrifying though.

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I don't want to.

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Yes, it was.

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Though it had occurred on the other side of the country, the deaths of seven individuals

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still loomed ominously for many nationwide, having occurred just a handful of years prior.

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Still it was uncertain just exactly what had happened and who or what was to blame for

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Sue's tragic death.

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Oh, did they find the people that did the other thing?

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I don't think the Tylenol murders have ever been solved.

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What?

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That's part of why it kind of stuck with people, I think.

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This is a NPR article from July of 2023, which says that officially everyone says the case

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is still open and ongoing.

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Unfortunately, the person who was their prime suspect apparently has passed away.

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So we're probably not going to have answers for that one.

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Okay.

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So I think that's actually pretty important context.

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It's not something that I really went deep on, but it's like one side of it, it looks suspicious,

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right?

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Because you're like, well, why are you bringing up this other, yeah.

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But it had just happened in recent years, and sure, it's across the country, essentially,

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right?

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But it's also unsolved.

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So I guess I would be worried about that too.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Fuck, I'm now I'm worried about it now.

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I mean, you should be.

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That's why we have the tamper seals and stuff.

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Literally that case is why.

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Yeah, that's really scary because sometimes I'll be like, eh, fuck it.

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No, don't, don't fuck around and find out.

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Don't fuck it.

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Mostly with food because I'm just like, I'm hungry.

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I mean, the same thing can be done with over the counter or prescription medication.

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In some cases, it could be done with food.

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All kinds of tampering can occur.

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You just, yeah, don't, don't.

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Likely, desperately craving anything resembling normalcy in the shocking aftermath of her mother's

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death.

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Haley went to school the next day.

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Oh, while one would hope that she would be met by sympathetic peers, she faced whispered

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rumors for returning to school so soon after her mother's passing.

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Even as a grown woman, she would never forget how that made her feel.

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That's fucked up.

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It can be dicks, but this kind of just seems like an all-time low.

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Like she came back to school the next day.

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So rather than having some sort of like sympathy or, you know, saying, like, gosh, I'm so sorry.

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Or, you know, trying to help her in any way, people just whispered about like, oh, I bet she

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killed her mom.

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Oh my god, that's so sad.

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She's like, can you imagine?

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She's traumatized already and she's trying to do like the normal thing to feel normal.

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She's the one who found her mom.

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Oh, I wish she didn't go.

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I just want to get her a hug.

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She was still in the house with her mom and she finally realized something was off.

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And actually the timeline in that regard, I think we're going to talk about a little

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bit more because it does become significant.

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She's remained an active advocate to ensure justice for her mother's death all these years

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later.

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As the investigation into Sue's death progressed, her autopsy could not confirm the exact cause

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of death, but the talk screen did confirm a fatal level of cyanide.

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Her paul's product tampering theory that was proffered some might argue just a little too

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early and eagerly.

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He told investigators that Sue took excedrin for frequent chronic headaches.

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I feel you, girl.

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah.

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Here I am just to ruin everything.

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For me?

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I'm just going to say that I'm not going to be a victim of any sort of harm.

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I'm just going to say that I'm not going to be a victim of any harm.

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I'm not going to be a victim of any harm.

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I'm not going to be a victim of any harm.

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I'm not going to be a victim of any harm.

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I'm not going to be a victim of any harm.

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Sue was known, at least by the family's account, to have stereotypically purchased tablets.

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Paul would also later state that both he and Sue took excedrin for headaches, as well

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as claiming they had both used it as a caffeine supplement.

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Oh.

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And I'm personally feeling attacked.

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Is that what you do?

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I have definitely taken it where I'm like, I don't feel like very energetic and I don't

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know for anyone who has migraines.

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Sometimes when you just generally feel crummy, there's this little like wriggling doubt or

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worry in your mind that, oh no, I don't want this to start a migraine.

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Yeah.

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That makes sense.

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You know, just really tired and you feel like you're, you don't, for me a lot of times, I

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don't really fully always understand why it is that I don't feel good.

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And sometimes I think it's because in that time, I'm neurologically compromised.

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And so normal things like I have a headache, I should take, you know, medicine or something,

255
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:38,920
I get distracted.

256
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:45,720
It's like ADHD and migraine come together to create this beautiful baby that keeps me from

257
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,880
the medicine.

258
00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,120
So the struggle is real.

259
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:53,120
Yeah.

260
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,960
But I found that very interesting because I've definitely taken excedrin when I felt like I

261
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,440
needed more than anything the caffeine.

262
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,880
And I thought this could stave off a headache that I don't even realize I'm about to have.

263
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:08,880
Yeah.

264
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:09,880
That makes sense.

265
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,380
That's just your intuition, right?

266
00:16:11,380 --> 00:16:12,380
Yeah.

267
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:13,380
I think so.

268
00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:15,140
May ever.

269
00:16:15,140 --> 00:16:21,940
By June 16, less than a week after Sue's death, the FDA had completed their analysis of

270
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:25,600
the pill bottle found in the family home.

271
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:35,560
Paul was not the least bit surprised to learn of the recall of lot number 5H 102 due to product

272
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,440
tampering and the inherent threat that potential poisoning posed.

273
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:41,440
No.

274
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,320
So it was recalled.

275
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,440
It was recalled.

276
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:51,920
Did you know that a gelatin capsule can dissolve in as little as 10 minutes once ingested?

277
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,760
I mean, I feel like it was kind of quick because that's like the whole thing with gel, right?

278
00:16:57,760 --> 00:16:58,760
Yeah.

279
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:05,260
I mean, depending on the purpose of the capsule and what's inside it, it can be fast acting.

280
00:17:05,260 --> 00:17:07,760
It can also be extended release.

281
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:08,760
Oh, okay.

282
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:14,480
So there's a number of way the capsules are used depending on, you know, the application

283
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,560
and what medication goes in it.

284
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:24,860
That was roughly the amount of time that had elapsed since Haley had seen her mother right

285
00:17:24,860 --> 00:17:31,720
around the time she reportedly took a dose of exedron and before Sue collapsed in the family

286
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,000
home's master bath.

287
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,200
Oh, God.

288
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,640
So it's really looking like that was the problem?

289
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:39,640
Yeah.

290
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:40,640
Definitely.

291
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:45,320
It's definitely looking like that is 1,000% the problem.

292
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:49,360
That's me, the exedron, I am the problem.

293
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:56,760
But Auburn, sleepy as it might seem next to a city like Seattle, was about to be rocked

294
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:05,760
because there was more than one seemingly suspicious spouse and bottle of exedron in town.

295
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:06,760
What?

296
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,760
There's another one?

297
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:17,880
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.

298
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,760
So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.

299
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,160
Let's show them some love.

300
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,840
You can find their info in our show notes.

301
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:33,160
Fire breathing kittens is an actual play one shot podcast that plays various tabletop

302
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:37,240
role playing games with a season long plot.

303
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,760
This is the beginning and an end to each week story.

304
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,000
You can start at any episode.

305
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:51,240
Every week has a different combination of four from the same rotating cast group of people.

306
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:59,160
Join fire breathing kittens as they solve detective mysteries, attempt comedic banter, and enjoy

307
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,160
friendship.

308
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,560
You guys, we're back.

309
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,240
And don't worry, we did get more wine.

310
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:17,320
Well, of course, it was just after 5 p.m. the evening of June 5th in 1986 when an Auburn

311
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:27,000
Washington man was rushed from his home on southeast Lake Money Smith Road by helicopter

312
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,640
to the Harbor View hospital in Seattle where he later sadly died.

313
00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:40,120
Wow, and I am so glad that I can see your face so that I know that you have the same reaction

314
00:19:40,120 --> 00:19:45,280
to southeast Lake Money Smith Road.

315
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,280
Yeah.

316
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,600
And I did.

317
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:54,160
I was like, I was picturing like that, who is that like Donald Duck in a money thing doing

318
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,160
this?

319
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,160
Yeah.

320
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:57,160
Like did we name this road?

321
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:58,160
Right?

322
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,360
It's very strange, but yeah.

323
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:09,120
According to his initial autopsy, the cause of death was declared to be emphysema.

324
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:13,360
That man was 52 year old Bruce Nichol.

325
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,400
Did he have emphysema?

326
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:16,400
He did.

327
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,400
Okay.

328
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:18,400
I like death.

329
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,840
At least he had it, I guess.

330
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:21,840
Yeah.

331
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,160
But it's kind of weird.

332
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,160
Kind of weird.

333
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,680
Emphysema isn't usually something that's like a sudden death.

334
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:30,520
Yeah, no.

335
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,000
So yeah, huh.

336
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:39,400
Bruce's wife released his body for autopsy right after his death.

337
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:45,840
Of course, if your loved one passed away unexpectedly, you would probably want answers as well.

338
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:47,920
Yeah.

339
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:54,320
As it turns out, his beautiful wife Stella was quite determined to get to the bottom of

340
00:20:54,320 --> 00:21:00,080
what had occurred and just what had caused Bruce's death.

341
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,080
James legit.

342
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,160
If it was my husband, I would be pretty pissed.

343
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:05,960
Yeah.

344
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:14,040
In the meantime, the first person that she called to notify of Bruce's death was his boss.

345
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,040
What?

346
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:16,040
Uh-huh.

347
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,840
I mean, you're grieving.

348
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,640
I can't say what I would do, but that's probably not who I would call first.

349
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:24,640
Yeah.

350
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,640
This next part.

351
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:33,480
If I finish that sentence, who was struck by Stella's frankness?

352
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,880
She called and said, "Um, he's not coming into work."

353
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:40,400
'Cause he died.

354
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:41,400
Wow.

355
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,400
Essentially.

356
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,400
Uh, yeah.

357
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,400
No, that's weird.

358
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,400
Yeah.

359
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:47,880
I would agree.

360
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:54,800
He wasn't the first man to make note of this throughout her life, that frankness.

361
00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:00,280
That alone following the death of her late husband Bruce, and he certainly would not be the

362
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,640
last.

363
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:08,760
Walter and Ruth of nearby Winachee were shocked to learn of the passing of their only

364
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,560
child.

365
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:18,280
The couple was by this time in their 90s, but no doubt they could remember all too vividly

366
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:23,240
a year's long struggle to become parents some decades prior.

367
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,520
Oh.

368
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,160
Walter had been an Apple farmer, Ruth, a teacher.

369
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,880
Oh my fucking god, stop it.

370
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:36,720
He farmed apples.

371
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,200
He was an Apple farmer.

372
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,320
You give apples to teachers.

373
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,320
Mm-hmm.

374
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,120
It's about as wholesome as it gets.

375
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:46,360
It seems like.

376
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,040
I feel so bad for them.

377
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:50,560
Yeah.

378
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:59,080
They had brought Bruce home in June of 1934 when he was just a weak old.

379
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:06,480
So they had struggled for a while to get pregnant and they adopted.

380
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,240
They brought him home as a brand new baby.

381
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:18,000
I mean, these days I feel like it's something that gets talked about a lot where people, of

382
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:25,240
course everybody wants a baby because it's like the clean slate of adoption, if you will.

383
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,920
But yeah, they actually had that.

384
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:34,080
They have had Bruce in their lives since he was a weak old.

385
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:35,080
Wow.

386
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,360
Oh, and they're 90.

387
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:40,320
Oh my gosh, this couple.

388
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:47,680
Bruce grew up on a large Apple orchard, quite idyllic from the outside.

389
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,160
And Apple see it's upside in.

390
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,680
No, that's arsenic, huh?

391
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,160
Yeah, it is.

392
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,160
It's arsenic.

393
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,160
I was like, that would be weird.

394
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,080
That would be really weird, right?

395
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:02,800
But at just 15 years old, Bruce began drinking.

396
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:09,280
It was a choice that though his parents never really broached the topic with him.

397
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:15,960
Not even when he was still well below the legal drinking age, they felt it had a prominent

398
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,280
negative impact on the trajectory of his young life.

399
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,040
Yeah, well, that sounds like it all happened to anyone, right?

400
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:26,200
They start drinking that young.

401
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,280
I think so.

402
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,280
Yeah.

403
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,280
I mean, if you start drinking, you can keep it up too.

404
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,560
Yeah, absolutely.

405
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:35,080
Not good for your liver.

406
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:36,760
No.

407
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:43,200
Still others in the nickel's lives would need to be notified of Bruce's passing, like the

408
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,600
church family.

409
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:46,600
That's their last name.

410
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:47,600
Okay.

411
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:55,600
It was like their family from church or just super wholesome people with the last name church.

412
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,520
Who's the who's the church family?

413
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:06,800
Stan church and Bruce had met over their CB radios, quickly becoming fast friends.

414
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,680
So fucking cute.

415
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,680
I know.

416
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:10,680
I know.

417
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:12,560
It's such a boy thing too.

418
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,840
It really is.

419
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:24,520
Stan lived in the Auburn area with his wife, Laurie and his two daughters, Kimmy and Karen.

420
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:30,160
It didn't take long for Laurie and Stella to form a bond of their own.

421
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:38,960
Despite each woman being her counterparts' distinct opposite in nearly every way.

422
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,080
Which for both Stan and Laurie's sake may have been a good thing.

423
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Not long after Bruce's death, Cindy Stella's daughter showed up to Kimmy's wedding with

424
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:57,920
her boyfriend, but noticeably missing were Stella and Bruce.

425
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:04,160
Stan and Laurie were at a loss until Stella showed up at their home following the reception.

426
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,960
Because they were very close friends and it was not like them to have missed their daughter's

427
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,960
wedding.

428
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,640
But it's really weird.

429
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:12,640
Yeah.

430
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:19,160
So Laurie said to Cindy, you know, I don't know what's going on or what excuse they could

431
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:24,480
possibly have for missing Kimmy's wedding, but like tell them to show up at our house after

432
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:25,720
the reception.

433
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,480
Like, we got to know what's up.

434
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,280
Yeah.

435
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:38,880
And the couple was shocked to find out that their friend had passed away two days prior.

436
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,880
Two days?

437
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,640
Yep.

438
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:47,480
Stella showed up at their house after their daughter's wedding reception.

439
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:55,640
As requested, but to let them know Stan, Laurie, Bruce died.

440
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,320
Two days ago.

441
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:03,720
I mean, if their daughter's wedding was coming up, you can kind of see it, right?

442
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:04,960
Yeah.

443
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:11,080
Like how do you think, oh, like one of the happiest days of your life isn't a couple of days.

444
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760
Let me just go ahead and kill that for you.

445
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:14,760
Right.

446
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:15,760
Absolutely.

447
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,760
Yeah.

448
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:17,760
You can kind of see it.

449
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,600
It makes sense if that was the only thing.

450
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,400
I'm stressed.

451
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,400
Yeah.

452
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,400
Yeah.

453
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:32,960
Stella simply stated that she'd intended to hold off on sharing the news until after the

454
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,720
nuptials had passed.

455
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:41,480
It wasn't long before it became apparent that there were a number of people who felt like

456
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:49,520
much of Stella and her daughter Cindy's behavior was quite odd after Bruce's passing.

457
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:56,360
Now the initial autopsy performed on Bruce indicated that he had died as a result of

458
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:57,960
embassies.

459
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:05,720
In stark contrast, Sue Snow's autopsy by assistant medical examiner Janet Miller would

460
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:12,920
indicate that a cause of a far more devious nature was almost certainly to blame in her

461
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,400
death.

462
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,360
The examination revealed a distinctive odor.

463
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:20,360
Better almonds.

464
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:21,360
Oh.

465
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:22,360
Oh.

466
00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:23,360
Oh.

467
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,360
Wait.

468
00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:25,960
So what are they smelling?

469
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,920
This is pretty dark.

470
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:38,560
When they open up the body for the autopsy, there is an odor that emanates from said body.

471
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,360
Wow.

472
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,360
Because of the poisoning.

473
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,600
That is crazy.

474
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:50,320
It's lucky that the assistant Emmy had been present actually.

475
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:57,680
This assistant is a telltale sign of cyanide poisoning, but not everyone can smell it.

476
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,920
Oh, interesting.

477
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,560
That is weird.

478
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:04,160
It's so weird.

479
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,160
Yeah.

480
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:13,840
The Emmy, so the actual medical examiner, was someone falling into the category of roughly

481
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:23,760
20 to 40% of people that it's believed do not carry the necessary gene to sniff out cyanide.

482
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,680
What is that some sort of like biological baby?

483
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,640
But why does it smell good though?

484
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,480
You think it should smell really bad?

485
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:34,480
Itter almonds.

486
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:35,480
Oh.

487
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,480
Bit, okay.

488
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,640
I don't know how good that smells.

489
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,320
I don't know why I was thinking of like roasted almonds when you said that.

490
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,320
Yeah.

491
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,320
Not that good.

492
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,280
What a fitter almond smell like.

493
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,480
Is it just like the almond skin?

494
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,000
Because that's really bitter.

495
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,400
I don't know.

496
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,000
I'm going to go sniffing almonds after this.

497
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,160
This does remind me of the Mel's whole episode though when we were trying to figure out what

498
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,960
ozone smelled like.

499
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:02,960
Oh.

500
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:03,960
Yeah.

501
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:04,960
What does it smell like?

502
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,240
I don't remember.

503
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,400
It smells like burnt wires or...

504
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,400
Oh.

505
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,400
Yeah.

506
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,880
No, like a burnt and metallicky smell.

507
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Yeah.

508
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:14,880
Yeah.

509
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,880
Okay.

510
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,560
It wouldn't be long before investigators would find evidence in the homes of the victims thus

511
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,920
far confirming this.

512
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,480
So they're like, yeah, we also found some cyanide.

513
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:27,580
The bottle of Etc.

514
00:30:27,580 --> 00:30:33,880
Capsules, the both Sioux and her husband, Paul, were said to have taken a dose from the

515
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:39,920
very same morning that she died was taken into evidence.

516
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:47,080
The bottle would have contained 60 capsules at the time of purchase and when the remainder

517
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:56,000
that were present following Sioux's death were tested, three capsules were found to contain

518
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,040
a toxic dose of cyanide.

519
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,040
Oh my God.

520
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,840
It's like Russian roulette.

521
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:03,840
Mm-hmm.

522
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:04,840
Fucking hate.

523
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,240
I'm so nervous right now.

524
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,240
Yeah.

525
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,360
I don't like the odds.

526
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,360
No matter what.

527
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,360
No, I don't like any of it.

528
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,360
Mm-hmm.

529
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,720
I'm scrunching like you do when you're scared of my stories.

530
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,720
I know.

531
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:20,720
Oh my God.

532
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,720
She got so scrunched.

533
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:23,720
So small.

534
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,680
Listen, you got all scrumpled up.

535
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,480
I did.

536
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:37,480
Further close examination of these bottles recovered by investigators as well as another suspicious

537
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:45,480
bottle of over the counter pain relief medication revealed something odd in addition to the poison

538
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,960
inside.

539
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,800
In addition to poison?

540
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,800
Yeah.

541
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,200
So it gets weirder.

542
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,440
Okay.

543
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:59,480
The capsules also contained an unknown green substance.

544
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,800
There were small flecks found throughout.

545
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,600
Okay.

546
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:16,020
Now if I said I would give you an imaginary million dollars if you could guess what those

547
00:32:16,020 --> 00:32:17,520
green flecks were.

548
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:18,520
Right.

549
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:19,520
Poisoning things?

550
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,040
Because they're green.

551
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,360
I cleaned a house.

552
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:23,760
That has a little green right.

553
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:24,760
Oh, interesting.

554
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,760
Okay.

555
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,680
So that's what I immediately thought of.

556
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Sadly, you've lost out on your opportunity for one million imaginary dollars.

557
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,320
Damn it.

558
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,800
But I do have an answer for you.

559
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,720
I want to know I'm dying to know.

560
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:51,480
It was later identified as an algae side commonly used in home aquariums known as algae

561
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,480
destroyer.

562
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,280
What?

563
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,280
I never would have guessed that in a million years.

564
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,280
Mm-hmm.

565
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:00,800
Why is it green?

566
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:01,800
I don't know.

567
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,360
I guess that's just the color it is.

568
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:05,360
It's algae's greenness.

569
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,360
Right.

570
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:07,360
You would think brown.

571
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:08,360
I don't know.

572
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:09,360
Yeah.

573
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,360
It's weird, but that's how the cookie crumbles.

574
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:13,360
My dude.

575
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,080
How the algae destroyer crumbles.

576
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,080
You're welcome.

577
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,360
You're not wrong.

578
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,080
You are not wrong.

579
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:23,080
I wish I was wrong.

580
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,080
Yeah.

581
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:25,080
Why?

582
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:31,640
So the color was more than likely someone who owned a fish tank.

583
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,960
Or that was sort of the working theory.

584
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,560
That's a way to throw someone off though if you don't.

585
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,560
I mean, yeah.

586
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:44,200
I guess you could just go and buy some of this stuff, right?

587
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,200
Right.

588
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:54,240
Though honestly, it's alarming the number of hobbyist pursuits that deal in handling cyanide

589
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,240
in some form or fashion.

590
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,360
Does that not kill the fish?

591
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:00,360
Right.

592
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,080
That was my first thought that apparently no.

593
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Apparently no.

594
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,080
Okay.

595
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:09,280
There's too many questions that don't have anything to do with the story.

596
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,280
Sorry.

597
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,600
Researching this case, I was a bit surprised that there aren't more of us dropping dead

598
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,320
of cyanide poisoning on the regular.

599
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,480
I don't want to.

600
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:28,920
If you were a photographer that developed photos, I'm safe.

601
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,920
Yeah.

602
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,840
Apparently cyanide.

603
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,280
So did they use that in the chemical development of the photos?

604
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,280
I think so.

605
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,840
I didn't look too deep into it because it doesn't have the most direct application to the

606
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,440
case, but it's something that the FBI explored.

607
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,760
That's very interesting.

608
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,720
It makes me not want to do that then.

609
00:34:51,720 --> 00:34:54,400
I was interested and now I'm like, now I'm good.

610
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:55,400
Yeah.

611
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:56,400
I don't know.

612
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:04,360
I feel like maybe there are some people that have gotten sick in, you know, historical times

613
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,880
that you're like, oh, maybe that doesn't not make sense.

614
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:09,880
Yeah.

615
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,800
We're gloves, right?

616
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:22,720
These days we might all be a bit jaded about a good many things, but a murder by cyanide

617
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:31,360
was an astounding development, particularly for residents in the state of Washington, and

618
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:36,560
certainly for those residing in the Auburn area.

619
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,360
When it became apparent that more than one tainted bottle had surfaced in the state, the

620
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:49,320
manufacturer of excedrin Bristol Myers, along with other companies that sold over the

621
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:57,960
counter drugs, offered a $300,000 reward for information leading to the arrest of the

622
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,960
person responsible.

623
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:07,160
Of course, this was following the recall I mentioned earlier being initiated.

624
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:08,160
Wow.

625
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,240
Well, at least they're doing something.

626
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:11,240
Oh, yeah.

627
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,480
It's like trying to sweep it under the rug.

628
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,440
After the deaths associated with Tylenol, excedrin was like, no, we don't want that kind

629
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,440
of bad press.

630
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:20,440
That's right.

631
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,440
That's right.

632
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,440
Yeah.

633
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:23,440
Yeah.

634
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,080
So they were pretty quick.

635
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,920
It was very proactive in this situation, I would say.

636
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,720
It's scary though, because like it's probably not like even coming from them, right?

637
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:37,680
It's probably people at the start, well, you might get into it.

638
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Okay.

639
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,160
Oh, I'm definitely going to get into it.

640
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:42,160
Or girl.

641
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,920
Or girl.

642
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Because it was major news at the time, it may not come as a surprise that the ripple effect

643
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,880
of the poisoning was quite vast.

644
00:36:53,880 --> 00:37:03,480
In fact, after watching a news story about Sue Snow's death, it was none other than Stella,

645
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:09,880
Bruce Nichol's wife who placed a panicked call to 911.

646
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:16,160
Much of the call was unintelligible.

647
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,880
However, the dispatcher was able to determine that she was calling after hearing about the

648
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:26,320
snow case on the news and believed that she had found a bottle of excedrin with the same

649
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920
lot number in her home.

650
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:30,720
Oh, wow.

651
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,720
She called 911.

652
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:33,720
Yes.

653
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:37,960
And Bruce was already dead at this point.

654
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,960
Right.

655
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:39,960
That's what I thought.

656
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,960
I was like, huh, okay.

657
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:41,960
Mm-hmm.

658
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:43,440
Again, you don't know what to do.

659
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,080
Maybe you're just, you know, yeah, maybe.

660
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:49,080
Maybe.

661
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:59,280
Now, you may recall that Bruce's autopsy stated that he had died of emphysema.

662
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:06,880
In later questioning, Stella would seemingly indicate that she had been unaware of the preliminary

663
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:16,240
autopsy result, insinuating that she was still awaiting the report.

664
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:22,600
Which is kind of weird because I feel like you would remember receiving the autopsy results

665
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,920
after your husband dies.

666
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,720
Yeah.

667
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:28,080
You would think.

668
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:34,440
This wasn't the case, but if you had gone to the trouble of lacing capsules of excedrin

669
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:41,240
in multiple bottles, found in more than one city of Washington state so that you could kill

670
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:48,400
your husband and collect his life insurance payout, I bet you'd be fairly well invested

671
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,720
in the outcome.

672
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:57,480
And emphysema would not be the COD you're looking for.

673
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,800
What are you implying, Caitlin?

674
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,640
I think I'm more than implying it.

675
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,560
That is so fucked.

676
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:12,440
Particularly in the instance where you'd forged his signature for one of his multiple

677
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:19,640
life insurance policies as the prosecution in the murder trial would posit.

678
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:28,080
And even more so, if that policy had a double indemnity clause in the case of an accidental

679
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:30,200
death.

680
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,600
I don't know what that means, but I'm assuming it means she gets the money anyway.

681
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:44,400
So double indemnity is something that I think came up in the Nancy Brophy case actually.

682
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:50,240
What that usually means is you get more money like double.

683
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,400
Oh, okay, I get it.

684
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,960
Yeah.

685
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:00,240
And it's oftentimes in the case of accidental death.

686
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:11,800
And it's led to a number of spouses being murdered in seemingly obscure or bizarre ways.

687
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:15,800
And this is probably one of the more bizarre.

688
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,800
Ugh.

689
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:23,400
I mean, I get why they would do that, but it doesn't seem like a good thing to be doing.

690
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:29,480
No, and definitely not after the Tylenol poisonings.

691
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,800
No, they're not going to let it go.

692
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,280
This assertion was backed by the FBI investigators that had examined the documents.

693
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:48,200
So they took a look at the policy documents for his life insurance and said, we're not so

694
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,720
sure about that.

695
00:40:49,720 --> 00:40:52,200
No, it's so sure about that.

696
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:53,200
Oh, God.

697
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,880
There's just too many things.

698
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,600
It's way too many things.

699
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:08,120
This case is incredibly dense and it easily could have been multiple parts, but you should

700
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:15,320
know that Stella wasn't exactly forthcoming about the fact that Bruce had multiple life

701
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,000
insurance policies.

702
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:25,960
It would become a major point of argument in her case when it went to trial, actually.

703
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:32,800
But either way, she stood to benefit in a very substantial way from Bruce's death, no

704
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,960
matter how you splice it.

705
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,800
There's people that fucking lose their spouses, you know?

706
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,800
Yep.

707
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:49,480
And the FBI brought her in for the long awaited polygraph.

708
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:55,000
Stella failed in stunning fashion.

709
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,000
In Stella fashion.

710
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,120
Oh, it was in Stella fashion.

711
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,120
Yeah.

712
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,360
Still, you're probably wondering about some of the details of the court case.

713
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:13,000
While there wasn't an actual smoking gun, there was a statistical anomaly that didn't

714
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:24,760
exactly look good for Stella of the thousands of bottles that were screened of a not totally

715
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,720
unwarranted abundance of caution.

716
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:39,200
There were only a handful that contained tainted over the counter drugs and well, Stella had

717
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,000
two of them in her possession.

718
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,000
Oh, how lucky.

719
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,000
Yeah.

720
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,000
She won the lottery.

721
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,000
I guess so twice.

722
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:50,000
Yeah.

723
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,000
You know?

724
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,000
Oh.

725
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:58,040
She claimed they'd been purchased in two separate establishments two weeks apart, which

726
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:05,600
seems even more unlikely from a purely statistical standpoint.

727
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,600
Seriously though?

728
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:08,600
Yeah.

729
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:09,600
Yeah.

730
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:10,600
Yeah.

731
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,600
I mean, that would suck if like that was your luck.

732
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:15,600
Yeah.

733
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,200
But some people say you make your own luck.

734
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,200
Uh-huh.

735
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,080
Well, she made her own luck.

736
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:25,840
Quite literally.

737
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:32,320
Investigators would come to learn that Stella had developed multiple murder plots when she

738
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:39,240
decided that she was done with Bruce, including covertly overdosing him with cocaine or

739
00:43:39,240 --> 00:43:40,240
heroin.

740
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:41,240
God.

741
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:42,240
Sorry.

742
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:46,520
It just like what?

743
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,680
Even hiring a hitman.

744
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:56,960
The latter plan fell flat because with their financial problems, looming large, Stella certainly

745
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:03,800
didn't have the funds to hire a hitman or buy heroin or cocaine.

746
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,240
That's just expensive too.

747
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:06,240
Yeah.

748
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:07,240
Probably.

749
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:10,200
Probably neither was a solid bet for her.

750
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,080
We could do that to her next husband though, since she'll have all of this life insurance

751
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,080
money.

752
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:16,080
Oh yeah.

753
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:24,880
But soon, she came up with a more profitable solution that proved palatable to her.

754
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:30,560
Once she had chosen her method, all she had to do was wait with baited breath for Bruce

755
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:39,200
to complete his employer-mandated health screening, you know, for his employer-sponsored life insurance.

756
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:47,520
She thought she was so smart.

757
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:53,520
Once he passed the physical, Stella thought she would be in the clear to poison Bruce so

758
00:44:53,520 --> 00:45:00,840
she could continue to live exactly as she pleased without giving a second thought to financial

759
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,360
woes.

760
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:08,200
She wouldn't have to worry about losing half of the property that her mother had bought,

761
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:15,360
and no one would be the wiser because the only person that might have had an inkling

762
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:21,120
about her devious plan was her daughter Cindy.

763
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:22,120
Mm-hmm.

764
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:23,120
Mm-hmm.

765
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,240
But she may have miscalculated.

766
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:30,080
Oh, why would she talk about that to her daughter though?

767
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:38,040
She talked to Cindy about some of the ideas that she had for killing Bruce, not in

768
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:47,400
that context always, but she knew that Cindy had experimented with harder drugs like cocaine

769
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,400
and heroin.

770
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:53,440
So, she asked her a lot of pointed questions about-

771
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:54,440
Interesting.

772
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:55,440
Uh-huh.

773
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:56,440
Wow.

774
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:57,440
Yep.

775
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:58,440
Huh.

776
00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,440
Okay.

777
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:08,000
Also, interesting to learn was the fact that Stella Nicoll had maintained multiple fish

778
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:13,600
tanks in the trailer home where she had lived with her late husband Bruce.

779
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:14,600
Mm-hmm.

780
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,440
Of course she did.

781
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:23,960
The owner of the local pet shop was even brought in to testify to the fact that she had purchased

782
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:31,320
the specific algae killer found in the contaminated cyanide tablets.

783
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:38,120
Algae destroyer, which needed to be crushed as opposed to the specific products that they

784
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,240
typically stopped for the same purpose.

785
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:50,720
Investigators speculated she had used the same container to crush algae killer and store

786
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:51,720
cyanide.

787
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,760
So, she did one of these.

788
00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:06,160
She crushed up the algae destroyer with the cyanide and she inserted it into the

789
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,480
exedron capsules.

790
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:14,560
All this planning and like you didn't think that that would ever link you.

791
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:15,560
Oh.

792
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,760
Thank God she's dumb.

793
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaking of planning, Stella's prints were found on Auburn Public Library.

794
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:26,720
Books.

795
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:38,200
According to an FBI subpoena, titles including Deadly Harvest and Human Poisoning from Native

796
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:39,200
Plants.

797
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,960
Oh my God!

798
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,600
Wow.

799
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:52,040
Over 80 of her prints were found on the lurid pages.

800
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:57,960
Particularly those pertaining to cyanide.

801
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,360
That is so cool that they can do that.

802
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,080
Like fucked up that they have to.

803
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:08,600
But like, can you imagine going through those books and like getting the prints and you're

804
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:09,920
like, oh my God!

805
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,680
Like look at what pages on!

806
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:12,680
Yeah.

807
00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,080
And that's exactly what they did.

808
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:16,080
Wow.

809
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,080
It's wild.

810
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,880
It's nerding out over the prints.

811
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:19,880
I know.

812
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:20,880
I know.

813
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:28,680
Pretty cool because we don't typically think of the 80s as being like this super advanced

814
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,960
like era for forensic technology.

815
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:32,960
Yeah.

816
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:35,800
But they didn't need DNA.

817
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:44,800
On May 9 of 1988, Stella Nickel was found guilty in federal court, not of murder, but of

818
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,800
product tampering.

819
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,280
She was sentenced to 90 years.

820
00:48:52,280 --> 00:49:01,320
The Chicago Tylenol case had resulted in the 1983 federal anti-tampering law under which

821
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,120
she was charged.

822
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:11,560
Additionally, there were new FDA requirements, including that products be packaged with

823
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,280
temper-resistant technology.

824
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,280
That wasn't a thing yet?

825
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:22,080
Oh, well, yeah, no shit.

826
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:28,000
Not only would Stella be indicted and convicted, by then she hardly seemed surprised by the

827
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,200
turn of events.

828
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:38,080
But something that came later did, when the daughter that she had raised to keep it in

829
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:43,880
the family, Cindy testified against her.

830
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,120
Good.

831
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:54,680
Cindy would receive $250,000 of the award put forth by the drug companies when all was said

832
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:55,680
and done.

833
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,440
Oh, okay, forgot about that.

834
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,440
Mm-hmm.

835
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:01,440
Okay.

836
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:08,640
This has led some to speculate that she may have initially conspired with her mother against

837
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,760
her stepfather.

838
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:17,280
And testified against her mother for the reward after her mother failed an FBI polygraph.

839
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:18,280
Mm-hmm.

840
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:19,280
I don't know.

841
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,760
I don't think that's fair.

842
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:30,240
I mean, it's a traumatized child of a murderer who came from a family rife with trauma

843
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,240
as well.

844
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:42,760
Honestly, if you trust the author of the book that I read, he sure does not seem to think

845
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:44,360
this is the case.

846
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:45,360
Good.

847
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:51,200
Cindy fell off the map pretty much immediately.

848
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:52,680
Yeah.

849
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:59,160
And the only contact that at least the author of the book, and we'll talk about the book

850
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:07,480
in a second, that he's aware of that she had had with the outside world was when she contacted

851
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:12,400
him by email years later.

852
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:17,960
And it seemed like she had gotten her life together and she put that money to good use.

853
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:18,960
Good.

854
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:22,800
Hopefully, that's still the case.

855
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,000
This case, there was so much.

856
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:29,240
We could have gone into so much detail.

857
00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,920
We literally could have been here for like three episodes.

858
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:33,920
Ooh.

859
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:42,200
And I really distilled it down, but I'm toying with the idea of a little Patreon bonus so

860
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,800
you can have a little bit of background to Stella.

861
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:46,800
So I don't know.

862
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,720
I'll keep noodlein' on it.

863
00:51:48,720 --> 00:51:52,480
Okay, well, I'll be here no matter what you decide.

864
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:58,320
You sucker.

865
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:04,040
Yeah, that's totally unfair to even insinuate that she had something to do with it.

866
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:13,360
I mean, even if her mom did tell her what was she supposed to really do, I mean, who has

867
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,680
the power in this situation, you know?

868
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:22,360
Yeah, I do think that's important to remember is this is her mother.

869
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:28,120
And like I said, this isn't something that I went in depth on because it's like once you

870
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:34,440
get into one can of worms, there's a whole other one, but there was definitely a keep it

871
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,680
in the family mentality.

872
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:47,920
And so it was pretty unusual even in the numerous, numerous instances of various types of abuse

873
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:58,480
for anyone to involve police, which is really sad because if we believe the story that nearly

874
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:09,800
everyone understands about Cindy's conception and her early years, it's very sad.

875
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:16,920
Stella was reportedly essentially gang raped.

876
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,840
Oh my God.

877
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:28,280
And Cindy was the resulting progeny from that.

878
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:29,780
Wow.

879
00:53:29,780 --> 00:53:43,400
So Cindy, yeah, it's so hard to trace this back because there's so much trauma in this

880
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:53,000
family and it's really hard to separate that there are, you know, these really, you know,

881
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:59,680
these are human people, these aren't just characters, but having some of these awful

882
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:05,960
things happen to you does not give you a hall pass.

883
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:07,960
No.

884
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:08,960
In Stella's case.

885
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:09,960
Yeah.

886
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,960
Not Cindy.

887
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,960
She didn't have anything to do with anything.

888
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:18,760
I really, I really don't believe that Cindy did and whatever awareness she might have

889
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:19,760
had.

890
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:26,040
I think, of course, anybody is going to want to believe that this isn't a serious conversation.

891
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,200
And, you know, my mother would never do this.

892
00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:40,920
I mean, in hindsight, definitely a lot of regret for her in not coming forward sooner.

893
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:50,040
And I think it says it all when Stella showed up to notify Cindy of Bruce's death and keeping

894
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:57,600
in mind, this is her stepfather, but a man that's been in her life for quite a few years, she

895
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,280
said, Bruce is dead.

896
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,800
And I know what you're thinking, but no.

897
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:10,480
Essentially, she was like, wow, I know you probably think I killed him, but I didn't.

898
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,920
That's not the first thing you say.

899
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:14,920
It's not.

900
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:15,920
It's not.

901
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:16,920
Oh, my God.

902
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:17,920
Stella.

903
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:18,920
Stella.

904
00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:19,920
Wow.

905
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:20,920
Stella.

906
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:25,800
It just makes me so angry.

907
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,800
I know I kind of said it earlier, but like there's people out there who would give all of

908
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,960
their money, anything they had to get their spouse back.

909
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:39,000
And then there's people out there, fucking killing their spouses to get a little bit of money.

910
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:40,000
It's gross.

911
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,840
It's really gross.

912
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,560
And ultimately, she didn't want to have a divorce.

913
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:53,880
She didn't want to get divorced because she knew that the property that their trailer

914
00:55:53,880 --> 00:56:04,280
home was on and that her mother's trailer home was on was property that her mother bought

915
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,920
and she didn't want the financial complications.

916
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:18,000
They had debt on top of the fact that they're entangled now in this living situation and

917
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:21,920
she didn't want to deal with it.

918
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:30,400
So if you don't want to deal with that financial and legal entanglement with another person, don't

919
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:32,400
get married.

920
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:33,400
Yeah.

921
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,400
It's, I mean, it's really gonna happen.

922
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:37,400
Yeah.

923
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,400
It's, you can live together.

924
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,080
That's funny coming from you.

925
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:44,080
Sorry.

926
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:50,480
No, it, I mean, it really is because I'm like, you know, I think there's something special

927
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:53,480
about being able to get married.

928
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,920
And if that's what you want, you should do that.

929
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,680
You should be able to do that.

930
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:09,360
But if you're somebody who's going to weaponize something that should be, you know, a commitment

931
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:14,760
to each other and quite literally you are bound to each other.

932
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:19,640
You are legally and financially obligated to one another.

933
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:24,800
That obviously is not okay.

934
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:28,600
It's, it's wild to me.

935
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:29,600
Yeah.

936
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,600
Just don't get married.

937
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:33,200
That is a choice that you can make.

938
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,280
She had been married before.

939
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:36,280
Yeah.

940
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:37,280
Oh God.

941
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,440
You don't have to.

942
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:46,080
That's not to say like if you're stuck, if you think you're stuck in a marriage, like definitely

943
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:48,960
get a divorce, you know, you can deal with it.

944
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:50,240
It's just money.

945
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,280
It's just things.

946
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,000
You can survive.

947
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,000
You can do it.

948
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,160
It's not like you're, it's the end of the world.

949
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:01,400
But someone who just like didn't even want to try.

950
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:02,400
Yeah.

951
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,400
Yeah.

952
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,680
I don't, I'll never get it.

953
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:12,640
Stella had multiple boyfriends.

954
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:20,560
After Bruce's death leading up to her trial and the early days of her sentencing, multiple,

955
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:22,080
multiple.

956
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:35,000
This is a woman who is unable to be alone, which is very unhealthy and not everyone enjoys

957
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:42,320
being single and it's never fun to work your way through to the other side of a breakup.

958
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,160
But this is not the answer.

959
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:46,160
No.

960
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:51,360
Clearly, I mean, you get, you're just going to get caught even in the 80s.

961
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,240
It's not good.

962
00:58:53,240 --> 00:59:02,760
Wasn't there a story about a, like a parent who poisoned like some candy and pixie sticks?

963
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:03,760
Pixie sticks.

964
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,680
Yeah, just to kill his child.

965
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,080
I believe that was in Texas.

966
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:13,280
Did they end up killing other children too, just to like get to theirs?

967
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:14,920
That's the worst part, right?

968
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,200
Because she killed other people.

969
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:19,880
Yeah.

970
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,480
You had nothing to do with it.

971
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:26,520
In that case, the pixie stick one.

972
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:32,080
According to a pathologist who tested the pixie sticks, the candy consumed by Timothy

973
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:38,800
contained enough cyanide to kill two adults.

974
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:44,560
While the other four candies contained enough to kill three or four adults.

975
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Jesus.

976
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:53,240
An old Clark O'Brien, nicknamed the candy man and the man who killed Halloween, was an

977
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:58,080
American man convicted of killing his eight year old son, Timothy.

978
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:07,840
On Halloween, 1974, with a potassium cyanide, laced pixie stick that was ostensibly collected

979
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:10,840
during a trigger treat outing.

980
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:16,520
O'Brien poisoned his son in order to claim his life insurance money to ease his life

981
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:23,480
and his own financial troubles as he was $100,000 in debt.

982
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:27,000
In 1974, are you out?

983
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,920
Fucking kidding me.

984
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,840
And how much is a child's life insurance going to help that?

985
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,000
Well, if you ensure all of the kids.

986
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:38,000
Oh.

987
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:46,360
O'Brien also distributed poisoned candy to his daughter and three other children in an

988
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,160
attempt to cover up his crime.

989
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:50,160
Oh.

990
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:51,160
Oh.

991
01:00:51,160 --> 01:00:58,200
However, neither his daughter nor the other children ate the poisoned candy.

992
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:00,640
Or to me, Jesus Christ.

993
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,960
What fucking disgusting people.

994
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:07,200
I mean, that was like almost a decade prior.

995
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,120
Wow, yeah.

996
01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:10,920
It's really awful.

997
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,680
Way to kill Halloween, you fucker.

998
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,520
I know.

999
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:15,800
Freakin' awful.

1000
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:25,320
I mean, here's something that a lot of people who are really familiar with the case find

1001
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:31,960
kind of interesting and in a way kind of a bittersweet.

1002
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:42,640
I think I said in our earlier discussion on the case that there was another suspicious bottle

1003
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:47,120
of a different over-the-counter pain reliever that was found.

1004
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:50,320
And it contained cyanide.

1005
01:01:50,320 --> 01:02:00,560
That was found in one of the stores where Stella had told investigators that she bought

1006
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:05,960
one of the tainted bottles of Etc.

1007
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:15,040
The bottle that was suspicious was a bottle of, it was a different type of, I want to say

1008
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,440
a seed of Minifin, but I don't think that's right.

1009
01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:18,840
It's a different name.

1010
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:31,160
I'd have to go back through my notes, but she had taken a bottle and she left it somewhere

1011
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,320
else in the store.

1012
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:41,520
And it got flagged because the FBI is literally investigating tampered over-the-counter pain

1013
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:44,680
medications.

1014
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:52,080
And they looked at it and the store manager was like, "We don't even have a skew for this."

1015
01:02:52,080 --> 01:02:55,760
It wasn't even from that store.

1016
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,120
Weird.

1017
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:03,480
I wonder if she just ditched it there because it didn't quite work out or something.

1018
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:10,880
She wanted them to find tainted pain medication.

1019
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:12,960
She wanted them to find another bottle.

1020
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,920
Like a different kind.

1021
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,520
She, well, I mean, maybe.

1022
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:24,340
I don't know that the kind of medication that it was really mattered so much as that she

1023
01:03:24,340 --> 01:03:29,760
saw that she had killed someone else.

1024
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:37,000
She wanted them to be aware that there was a danger of tainted medication.

1025
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:42,920
So she left that one in a way that it would be flagged.

1026
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:44,560
It would be found.

1027
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:46,800
Like she didn't want to kill anyone else?

1028
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,520
Oh, okay.

1029
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:50,720
I was thinking she was like trying.

1030
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:51,720
No.

1031
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:57,680
No, the way that this one was left at the store, it was definitely an attempt.

1032
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:02,880
It was like, "I want the fact that there's tainted medication.

1033
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:04,400
I want that to be flagged.

1034
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:05,400
I want that.

1035
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,800
I want authorities to be aware of that."

1036
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:16,640
But, you know, if you don't want anyone else to die, maybe just don't poison other bottles.

1037
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:24,000
But if you don't poison other bottles, if nobody else dies, then it looks like just your husband

1038
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,960
and just your bottle.

1039
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,680
And they look a lot closer at that.

1040
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:30,680
Yeah.

1041
01:04:30,680 --> 01:04:36,040
And they're going to start with the assumption that, yeah, probably that was tainted, probably

1042
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:38,440
that was tampered with.

1043
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:44,000
And I think the call may be coming from inside the house.

1044
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,440
So it was really just like, "Oh, well, shit.

1045
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:52,720
Now I've got the one other dead person who covers my tracks, but I don't want anybody else

1046
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:53,720
to die."

1047
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:54,720
Oh, right.

1048
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,640
Like, "Oh, great.

1049
01:04:57,640 --> 01:05:04,240
So all you had to do was take someone's mother away.

1050
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:09,400
All you had to do was kill one more person.

1051
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:11,120
And it was all for nothing."

1052
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:13,960
Yeah, you didn't even get what you wanted.

1053
01:05:13,960 --> 01:05:14,960
Nope.

1054
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:18,000
I mean, she didn't get away with it.

1055
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:20,000
Wow.

1056
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,800
She never asked to worry about money or where to live again.

1057
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,360
Yeah.

1058
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:26,360
She won't.

1059
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:30,640
Or is she dead now?

1060
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:31,640
Let's see.

1061
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:37,000
I checked it when I started writing and I believe she was still alive.

1062
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:48,400
But there are reports as recent as the summer of 2022.

1063
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,440
Basically saying that they're not going to let her out.

1064
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:59,120
So unless she has died in recent months, Stella is still with us.

1065
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:00,120
Good.

1066
01:06:00,120 --> 01:06:03,560
I mean, good that they're not going to let her out, you know?

1067
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:04,560
Yeah.

1068
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:09,080
I mean, listen, is she a danger to society?

1069
01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:11,080
I'm not a doctor.

1070
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:15,760
But she was dangerous to at least two people already.

1071
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:24,360
And it doesn't take a whole awful lot to complete that motion.

1072
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:25,440
Yeah.

1073
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:27,960
So I hope she has arthritis.

1074
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,080
I hope so too.

1075
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:31,400
What's the apple for?

1076
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:37,360
I was thinking about, well, like what's something that's like representative of poison?

1077
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:43,160
Because I've got like our candles back here from like a witch's apothecary, stinging

1078
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:48,480
nettle and white snake root.

1079
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,760
Darn and I have your poison jug.

1080
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:51,760
Oh yeah.

1081
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:53,760
The first poison on it.

1082
01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:54,760
Yeah.

1083
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,760
That would have been too obvious.

1084
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:57,760
Yeah.

1085
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:05,800
But you may remember from some of our favorite fairy tales and fables that apples are frequently

1086
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,320
poisoned.

1087
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,360
I did not even make the connection with the...

1088
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,440
There's arsenic in the apple seeds.

1089
01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,480
And you didn't make the connection that they were apple people?

1090
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:18,480
I didn't know.

1091
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:19,480
I didn't know.

1092
01:07:19,480 --> 01:07:20,980
I said so funny.

1093
01:07:20,980 --> 01:07:22,280
It's so wild to me.

1094
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:26,280
I mean, arsenic, cyanide, you know, a potato potato.

1095
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,560
But still though, I mean, it's just so random.

1096
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,520
And then the fact that I brought an apple out.

1097
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:32,520
Yeah.

1098
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:36,360
I feel like, oh, but apples, you know, the poisoned apple.

1099
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,120
Yeah.

1100
01:07:38,120 --> 01:07:40,640
So the apothecary candles.

1101
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:47,640
It reminded me that, you know, she had looked up all of these native plants and ways that you

1102
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:52,360
can poison people and the different plants that are poisonous.

1103
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:57,520
And she did a lot of that at the public library.

1104
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,480
And that's how they got the prints.

1105
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:10,600
What I found really interesting about that was she had told people and she testified.

1106
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:19,360
That she was doing that research because they had moved to Auburn and they were in like

1107
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:21,480
a forested area.

1108
01:08:21,480 --> 01:08:25,800
And when she was babysitting her grandchild, she wanted to make sure that she wouldn't

1109
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:28,440
get into anything that could make her sick.

1110
01:08:28,440 --> 01:08:31,440
I mean, that sounds legit.

1111
01:08:31,440 --> 01:08:38,120
I mean, it would if it weren't for all of these other things stacked against her.

1112
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:39,120
Yeah.

1113
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:43,240
Now I'm just running through like the, I have a poisonous mushroom buck.

1114
01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:48,120
I have like edible things that are edible and not edible in nature.

1115
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,120
Yeah.

1116
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:58,040
She literally made the pet shop special order, the algae destroyer because they carried

1117
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:04,320
a different product that was, I believe, liquid soluble.

1118
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:11,160
And she made them order the kind that you can crush up because that can be put into capsules.

1119
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,280
Wow.

1120
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,840
Like wait, wait a bit.

1121
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:16,840
More obvious.

1122
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,400
Could you be any more obvious?

1123
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,200
No.

1124
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:23,200
I know.

1125
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:24,200
Champers.

1126
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:25,200
Champers.

1127
01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:30,040
I mean, if you think about it, he kind of poisoned as well.

1128
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:31,040
I don't know what happened.

1129
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:32,040
He didn't.

1130
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,040
I didn't have it heard yet.

1131
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:36,360
And Chandler was kind of poisoned as well.

1132
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:37,360
What?

1133
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:41,360
I, I haven't heard anything.

1134
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:42,360
Okay.

1135
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:43,360
Hold on.

1136
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:44,360
Let me.

1137
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:45,360
Oh, wow.

1138
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:46,360
Okay.

1139
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:52,680
So this is very highly Googleable, apparently, because all I did was type in how did in my computer

1140
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:57,600
Google was like immediately like Matthew Perry die.

1141
01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:58,600
It hurt us.

1142
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:02,920
Tell me you're listening without telling me you're listening.

1143
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:11,160
He died from the acute effects of the anesthetic ketamine.

1144
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:18,040
The Los Angeles County Department of the Medical Examiner said in the autopsy report

1145
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:25,280
that Perry also drowned in the heated end of his pool.

1146
01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:33,480
That it was a secondary factor in his October 28th death deemed an accident.

1147
01:10:33,480 --> 01:10:35,520
Be careful, everybody.

1148
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:47,240
So definitely, yeah, definitely don't just decide to get into like maybe, maybe the pool,

1149
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:52,840
maybe the pool, maybe swimming of any sort is not going to be the activity for the night

1150
01:10:52,840 --> 01:10:57,520
when you're doing recreational drugs.

1151
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,120
Should we do some tarot?

1152
01:10:59,120 --> 01:11:00,120
Yeah.

1153
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:01,120
Okay.

1154
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:02,120
Let's do it.

1155
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,120
I'll send you my vibes.

1156
01:11:04,120 --> 01:11:12,600
How are you feeling over there?

1157
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,000
You feel like this feeling good?

1158
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,320
This is good shuffle.

1159
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:17,320
Yeah.

1160
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:18,320
Okay.

1161
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:19,320
Was that three?

1162
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:20,320
Yeah.

1163
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:21,320
Sounds good.

1164
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:22,320
Okay.

1165
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:23,320
Oh.

1166
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:26,040
I hate that for us.

1167
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:27,040
Why?

1168
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:29,040
Is it the magician?

1169
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:30,040
Yes.

1170
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:32,040
I don't know how I knew that.

1171
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:33,040
Mother?

1172
01:11:33,040 --> 01:11:35,040
I can't see the words on the card.

1173
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:36,040
Team it.

1174
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:38,040
I want to renew the magician.

1175
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:41,440
I don't want that card to be associated.

1176
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:44,240
Let's read it and see.

1177
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:49,280
It is the number one and the switch was only thinking about number one.

1178
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:51,280
No.

1179
01:11:51,280 --> 01:11:54,320
If no connection, that's the connection.

1180
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:55,800
This is my card.

1181
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:57,320
It is your card.

1182
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:00,360
And it's kind of your card because of the crow.

1183
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:03,360
It's definitely our card.

1184
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:06,000
But I'm a little possessive.

1185
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,360
I think it's more yours for sure.

1186
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:09,360
Yeah.

1187
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:13,600
Yours is definitely the floor.

1188
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:22,480
You know what?

1189
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:28,160
I didn't even mention in this case because I wanted to get all the way through and let you know

1190
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:29,160
who did what.

1191
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:31,320
But Stella and her daughter had an interest in witchabores and girl cards.

1192
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,160
Oh, I hate that.

1193
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:34,160
I know.

1194
01:12:34,160 --> 01:12:36,560
Wait a minute for the rest of us.

1195
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:37,560
Yeah.

1196
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:38,560
Fuckers.

1197
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:39,560
Stella.

1198
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:40,560
Cindy, no.

1199
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:41,560
Cindy's cool.

1200
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:42,560
We think.

1201
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:43,560
Yeah.

1202
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,760
I'm going with that.

1203
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:55,240
Keywords are hidden power, which hidden like a poison, magical ability, mastering unseen

1204
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,840
forces, inner guidance.

1205
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,400
So that last one, maybe less.

1206
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,640
I shouldn't have that.

1207
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:04,640
Oh, boy.

1208
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:05,640
No.

1209
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:12,120
The magician recommends getting in touch with the unseen world instead of focusing only on

1210
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:14,120
the material one.

1211
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:15,120
Yeah.

1212
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:19,440
Maybe this is right on.

1213
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:20,760
They aren't separate.

1214
01:13:20,760 --> 01:13:26,040
And what we usually think of as reality is an illusion.

1215
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:32,560
The presence of the four magic tools, which also represent the four elements on this card

1216
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:38,240
suggests that everything you need is right there at your fingertips.

1217
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:39,840
Are you smart?

1218
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:41,600
Do you have charisma?

1219
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:44,520
Are you capable?

1220
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:52,240
Maybe do literally anything else besides murder.

1221
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:57,720
You're connecting with your power and aligning yourself with universal forces to achieve

1222
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:59,720
your goals and desires.

1223
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,920
You would have been if you didn't focus on the material goods.

1224
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:03,920
You bet.

1225
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:04,920
Yeah.

1226
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:07,160
Yikes.

1227
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:12,920
When a reading about money, the magician tells you to tap into the universal flow to attract

1228
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:14,920
abundance.

1229
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:21,320
You possess the resources, inner and outer to generate wealth.

1230
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:27,760
This card can also advise you to take control of a financial matter, which is really interesting

1231
01:14:27,760 --> 01:14:35,080
because Stella wrote a letter to their mortgage company saying that all of a sudden she would

1232
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,000
be taking over their finances.

1233
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,520
And that was prior to Bruce's death.

1234
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:41,520
Jesus Christ.

1235
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:42,520
You know what?

1236
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,520
Oh my God.

1237
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:45,520
Yeah.

1238
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:50,120
She was really too much.

1239
01:14:50,120 --> 01:14:56,320
If the reading is about your job, this card encourages you to use your spiritual and physical

1240
01:14:56,320 --> 01:15:03,480
resources correctly to take command of your life and master the circumstances around

1241
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:04,480
you.

1242
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:09,200
Trust yourself and your inner guidance unless it suggests murder.

1243
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:10,200
Yeah.

1244
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:12,200
Don't trust that.

1245
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:19,040
Honestly, your inner guidance will not lead you to murder.

1246
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:23,120
So I feel like she wasn't following her inner guidance.

1247
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:24,120
It shouldn't.

1248
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:25,120
Yeah.

1249
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:29,120
I don't think it will.

1250
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:37,680
The magician can also symbolize a position in a spiritual field or studying spiritual wisdom,

1251
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:41,880
which you could have done more of, but I don't know what the rules are about having a

1252
01:15:41,880 --> 01:15:47,640
terro deck in your cell.

1253
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:54,520
In a reading about love, this card may represent a relationship that contains a strong spiritual

1254
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,360
or magical element.

1255
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:05,720
You and a partner may be on a spiritual path together, encouraging and inspiring one another,

1256
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:13,120
which is arguably what you were doing when you encouraged Bruce to go to rehab for his

1257
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:14,960
drinking.

1258
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:19,600
If you had continued on that path, that would have been great.

1259
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:20,600
Yeah.

1260
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:24,280
She definitely needed this card before.

1261
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:25,280
Yeah.

1262
01:16:25,280 --> 01:16:26,280
Wow.

1263
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:34,280
Well, also it's like magic and the poison apple was like that magic witch, you know?

1264
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:35,280
Mm-hmm.

1265
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:43,520
I'm going to look at the card that was on the underside.

1266
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:52,560
So the two of swords in reverse was the card on the underside of the other half of the

1267
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:53,560
deck.

1268
01:16:53,560 --> 01:17:02,760
Keywords are combined resources, courage, faith, friendship, conflict and balance.

1269
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:09,560
In some cards or in some terro decks, this card depicts a blind folded woman holding two

1270
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,960
swords crossed over her chest.

1271
01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:14,720
Ooh, she killed two people.

1272
01:17:14,720 --> 01:17:21,640
Two's generally signify balance or conflict as well as pairing, which you did entirely

1273
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:23,680
too much of.

1274
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:30,320
I think of the two of swords as the blind faith card because it can represent courage and

1275
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:36,120
making decisions based on your own truth and in some cases spiritual guidance.

1276
01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:40,480
It says, feels linked, but it's reversed though, right?

1277
01:17:40,480 --> 01:17:41,480
It is.

1278
01:17:41,480 --> 01:17:42,480
Yeah.

1279
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:49,800
Reverse the two of swords often indicates confusion or conflict with yourself or someone

1280
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:51,200
else.

1281
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:52,200
Maybe both.

1282
01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:53,200
Probably both.

1283
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,440
Probably both.

1284
01:17:55,440 --> 01:18:00,640
And imbalances may cause stress or frustration.

1285
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:07,720
Sometimes this card urges you to take action rather than endlessly analyzing a situation.

1286
01:18:07,720 --> 01:18:11,000
You can't see ahead, but you must take a leap of faith.

1287
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,480
Yeah, that's like that thing about just get divorced.

1288
01:18:14,480 --> 01:18:16,000
Just like take the leap of faith.

1289
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,480
You'll be fine.

1290
01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:18,480
Yeah.

1291
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:19,480
Yeah.

1292
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:20,480
Yeah.

1293
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:21,480
I'll do that.

1294
01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:23,160
Oh my God.

1295
01:18:23,160 --> 01:18:29,400
In reading about money, this card suggests worrying about a financial matter.

1296
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:34,080
You don't know what to do and can't trust anyone to help you.

1297
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:35,600
Or so you think.

1298
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:37,400
I got.

1299
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,200
Exactly.

1300
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:45,400
The reverse two can indicate choosing between two unsatisfactory options.

1301
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:46,400
Wow.

1302
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:47,400
That's true.

1303
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:48,400
Damn.

1304
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:49,400
I can't.

1305
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:50,400
I can't.

1306
01:18:50,400 --> 01:18:51,400
The wrong one.

1307
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:52,400
Yeah.

1308
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:53,400
Yeah.

1309
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:55,480
She definitely chose the wrong one.

1310
01:18:55,480 --> 01:19:03,360
If the reading is about your job, the reverse two represents confusion, indecision, lack of information,

1311
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:09,000
or conflicts regarding your work, which there were plenty.

1312
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:14,680
It can also warn that colleagues aren't reliable or trustworthy.

1313
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,240
You need to look hard at something you don't want to see.

1314
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:20,240
Your own reflection, bitch.

1315
01:19:20,240 --> 01:19:21,240
Yeah.

1316
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:22,240
Yeah.

1317
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:30,320
In a reading about love, confusion or differences of opinion may cause stagnation in a relationship.

1318
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:32,920
Are you clashing swords?

1319
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:36,000
Honesty and openness are important right now.

1320
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,720
The reverse two also represents imbalance.

1321
01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:43,760
One person may wield more power than the other.

1322
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:44,760
Hmm.

1323
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:45,760
Wow.

1324
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:48,760
That one fit too.

1325
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:49,760
Wow.

1326
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:50,760
I mean, I hate it.

1327
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,760
We need to both of them.

1328
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:53,760
Yeah.

1329
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:54,760
Yeah.

1330
01:19:54,760 --> 01:20:02,160
I don't know why, but I, because normally I'm like, "Let's just see what the card says."

1331
01:20:02,160 --> 01:20:09,440
And something about it being the magician, I was like, "I remain skeptic."

1332
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:13,280
I just felt like, "Okay, I'm going to turn this other piece over."

1333
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:14,280
Yeah.

1334
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:15,280
Perfect.

1335
01:20:15,280 --> 01:20:18,800
Good job, witchybish.

1336
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:20,800
Witchybish.

1337
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:26,400
If you loved listening to that terror reading and want to see it, become a member of our

1338
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:33,800
Patreon, where a video of every terror reading is uploaded with the ad-free version of the

1339
01:20:33,800 --> 01:20:35,520
episode each week.

1340
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:41,800
Yeah, and I think this week we might be showing us opening some old gift-ies again.

1341
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:42,800
Ooh.

1342
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:43,800
Yeah.

1343
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:50,240
Patreon is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits, and every member

1344
01:20:50,240 --> 01:20:58,360
of our Patreon gets a personalized welcome card, a shout out in an upcoming episode, exclusive

1345
01:20:58,360 --> 01:21:04,520
bonus episodes, and so much more, including their own mini-hero reading.

1346
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:07,080
Yeah, we're still doing that.

1347
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:08,580
Yeah.

1348
01:21:08,580 --> 01:21:12,980
Even Patreon got holiday cards, they did.

1349
01:21:12,980 --> 01:21:17,060
They're getting another bonus from me and what Caitlyn was talking about another bonus,

1350
01:21:17,060 --> 01:21:22,020
so if you're interested, click a little winky in the show notes.

1351
01:21:22,020 --> 01:21:26,980
And if you can't support us monetarily, no worries, because the easiest ways to support

1352
01:21:26,980 --> 01:21:28,940
are absolutely free.

1353
01:21:28,940 --> 01:21:31,780
Free 99.

1354
01:21:31,780 --> 01:21:38,220
Tell everyone and anyone that you come into contact with about us, or leave us a five-star

1355
01:21:38,220 --> 01:21:41,340
review on any platform that you can.

1356
01:21:41,340 --> 01:21:43,340
Alessum.

1357
01:21:43,340 --> 01:21:48,660
Unless someone wishes us harm or wants to poisonous, like don't tell those people.

1358
01:21:48,660 --> 01:21:49,860
No thank you.

1359
01:21:49,860 --> 01:21:55,380
If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories to submit for our listener appreciation

1360
01:21:55,380 --> 01:22:04,100
episodes, creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com, or

1361
01:22:04,100 --> 01:22:08,900
use our handy dandy Google contact link in the episode description.

1362
01:22:08,900 --> 01:22:10,340
I made it.

1363
01:22:10,340 --> 01:22:15,820
You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you write in with a story, and remember they

1364
01:22:15,820 --> 01:22:20,220
don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest if you'd like to share.

1365
01:22:20,220 --> 01:22:24,100
And make sure to follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of

1366
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:30,740
our tarot cards, our beautiful altarset ups, sometimes with apples, and a lot of backstage

1367
01:22:30,740 --> 01:22:39,900
shenanigans, a lot of crampus photos, a lot of us just, you know, having fun.

1368
01:22:39,900 --> 01:22:45,260
Generally shenaniganning all over life.

1369
01:22:45,260 --> 01:22:52,180
You can find our link tree and our website in the description of this episode to check out
pnwhauntsandhomicides.com

1370
01:22:52,180 --> 01:22:55,220
all of the fun that we have to offer.

1371
01:22:55,220 --> 01:22:59,220
Have a creepy ass day.

1372
01:22:59,220 --> 01:23:01,220
Not ever this creepy.

1373
01:23:01,220 --> 01:23:02,220
No.

1374
01:23:02,220 --> 01:23:03,220
Never.

1375
01:23:03,220 --> 01:23:05,660
Not so creepy that you like poison people.

1376
01:23:05,660 --> 01:23:06,660
Jesus Christ.

1377
01:23:06,660 --> 01:23:11,620
I feel like it went without saying, but we'll just say it.

1378
01:23:11,620 --> 01:23:14,980
If you're ever thinking about it, just don't do it.

1379
01:23:14,980 --> 01:23:16,460
Just get divorced.

1380
01:23:16,460 --> 01:23:17,460
Yeah.

1381
01:23:17,460 --> 01:23:22,980
Or just, you know, whatever that situation is, just don't be there.

1382
01:23:22,980 --> 01:23:23,980
It works out.

1383
01:23:23,980 --> 01:23:24,980
I'm telling you.

1384
01:23:24,980 --> 01:23:31,980
Okay.

1385
01:23:31,980 --> 01:23:37,700
I poured this wine so I know it's safe.

1386
01:23:37,700 --> 01:23:39,220
I'm going to take a sip.

1387
01:23:39,220 --> 01:23:40,220
God.

1388
01:23:40,220 --> 01:23:41,220
Okay.

1389
01:23:41,220 --> 01:23:42,740
I'm scared to drink my coffee.

1390
01:23:42,740 --> 01:23:45,740
Well, you poured that, so you should be okay.

1391
01:23:45,740 --> 01:23:48,540
I don't know if I trust myself.

1392
01:23:48,540 --> 01:23:52,700
I mean, I feel like you should, but you never know.

1393
01:23:52,700 --> 01:23:54,700
Yana Vanau!