July 8, 2025

Neil Stonechild: Deadly Saskatoon Starlight Tours

Neil Stonechild: Deadly Saskatoon Starlight Tours
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In 1990 Neil Stonechild, a 17-year-old Saulteaux First Nations teen, was last seen on a freezing November night in Saskatoon, handcuffed and bleeding in the back of a police cruiser. At least, according to the disturbing testimony of his best friend.

Five days later, Neil’s frozen body was found in a remote snow-covered industrial field near Saskatoon. The official cause of death was ruled hypothermia. But the haunting details—and Jason Roy’s chilling account—suggest something far more sinister. One of Neil’s shoes was missing. His wrists bore strange marks.

This episode examines the deeply unsettling circumstances of Neil Stonechild’s death and the long-standing pattern of abuse tied to a chilling practice known as the Starlight Tours—where Indigenous people in Saskatchewan and other neighboring provinces were reportedly detained by police, driven out of town, and abandoned in lethal conditions. We’ll follow the trail of conflicting statements, cover-ups, and a long-delayed public inquiry that still failed to deliver real accountability.

Neil's story isn’t just a cold case—it’s a window into a systemic legacy of racism, institutional neglect, and community resistance. His name remains one of the most haunting tied to what’s now widely known as the Saskatoon Freezing Deaths.


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He had no means of transport. He didn't have a

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car or a bike, and public transit would have been

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fairly limited at that time of night, especially in an

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industrial area that was not particularly populous. So how and

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why did he end up there? Despite what might seem

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a charming nickname, nothing can prepare you for the horror

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that is a starlight tour. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi,

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Creepy people, hellou Lou. This is PNW Haunts and Homicides

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where we chat about true crime, the paranormal and all

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things creepy in the Pacific Northwest or the.

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P and W.

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If you're nasty, If you're nasty and we know you are,

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and we also do a nasty Tarot reading at the

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end of every episode for a little deeper insight into

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our topic.

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Is the tarot reading nasty? Specifically?

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I feel like the true crame ones are they can

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get They can get pretty nasty if they're not like

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hopeful or feel like they're about the person the sad

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thing that we're talking.

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I completely lost what I was saying. Did you see

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what just happened?

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I one in the middle of a sentence, forgot what

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I was talking. About and I tried to make where

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its happen, and I was just like, I don't, this

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is not making sense. I knew where you were going.

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You like a general sense of it. Yeah, no, Taro read.

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Sometimes they're nasty, sometimes they're not. Okay. I want to

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rewatch that and just see that idea fly out of

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my brain, Like I want to see the moment in

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my eyes where I completely lost it.

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You're like, I don't what was I saying?

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But anyway, that's you. That's my impression of you. Just now,

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that was my impress I was just doing an impression

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of you. Wow.

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So I'm doing an impression of you doing an impression

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of me.

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It's impression exception.

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Pretty meta.

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Wow. Well, this isn't really a paranormal spooky episode. I

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don't think unless you're surprising me today. No, and you

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know what, I.

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Hope that you are well stopped from the holiday.

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I am not opening. I have nothing, nor do I

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want to drink because I drank for two days straight

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and I am not feeling the best.

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Oh No, I've actually been on very good behavior and

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this is my reward.

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I'm so proud of you. Thank you been on my

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worst behavior. Literally, and I am so proud of you.

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Hey, we said we.

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Were taking a vacation, a break, a mini break, so yeah,

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break hard. I breaked hard, so hard I broke my body.

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Well, cheers, humid are okay, I'm just going to start now,

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I'm really gonna You can't stop me. We're listening Neil

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stone Child. It's hard to know what to say about

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this young man. How does one even approach the task

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of adequately encapsulating all the multitudes that a single person contains.

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For decades, many of his loved ones have tried. His

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older siblings Erica and Marcel, his mother Stella big Nell,

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and younger brother Jason have frequently spoken fondly of the

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seventeen year old that they knew to be friendly, outgoing

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and caring. It's a bit dawn trying to put all

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of the complicated facets of someone into words that do

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justice to their unique complex humanity. Who was this person?

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What was it like to know them? Neil was an

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accomplished bantamweight wrestler and was even the inspiration for a

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beautiful mural, a series of murals actually created by one

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of his best friends, Jeffrey Crow at Kilburn Hall.

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In the early nineties. That sounds really cool to you

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have pictures. Yes, Oh wow, they're really unique. They are.

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They're very colorful.

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They really seem like, just looking at them at a glance,

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like they really feel like like they're about something.

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Yeah, do you know what I mean?

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I know, like all art is supposed to be about something, right,

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but they just feel like they have like there's more.

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Yeah.

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I don't know how to like really put that into words.

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That's what I was like having. I was trying to

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say something to describe like what like what these are?

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I don't know, and I can't do it.

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It's hard to like put your finger on what exactly

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is like the right word for them.

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They're beautiful, they're interesting. I'd like to sit there and

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look at them more.

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I know.

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At the time of Neil stone Child's disappearance, two things

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were true. He'd been attending AA meetings without fail for

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some time, and he'd also been drinking on that fateful night.

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His personal experience trying to navigate a healthy relationship with

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substance use and his Soto First Nation's heritage made him vulnerable,

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certainly to the.

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Pitfall of prejudice.

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It's easy to see how those prejudices likely contributed to

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both his untimely death and the widely criticized handling of

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the inquiry that followed. Neil was about fourteen or fifteen

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when he began to test boundaries. Not that I claim

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to be an expert, but for both younger children and teenagers,

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pushing limits is such a normal part of development and growing.

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Up, right, and then like the beginning of high school age,

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that's like especially I feel like.

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Yeah, and I mean, at this point kind of where

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our story takes place, he's seventeen, and so he's really

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like beginning to kind of come into his own as

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an adult. And part of what ultimately has to happen

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is you really do like have to you know, find

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your place as your own individual person in the world.

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It is it's rough times at certain ages. Evaluating potential

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consequences isn't something that we do adeptly. It's often only

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with the benefit of hindsight that young people.

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See where they have aired.

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Though his offenses eventually rose to a level classified as criminal,

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they were never characterized as violent. His juvenile record consisted

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of breaking into entering charges, which on the surface, actually

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I feel like sounds much scarier and far more serious

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than it sounds like they were in his case, and

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they had resulted in his placement or sentencing to a

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group home for juvenile offenders. In particular, it's important that

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there's access to resources that support their continued development, and

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that when necessary, rehabilitative services are readily available. Neil seemed

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to be trying to take positive steps in his life,

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and nothing he'd done was something that he couldn't come

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back from, especially in light of seemingly having honestly a

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really great support system. He had a lot of friends

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and family that were very close to him. They cared

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very deeply about, you know, making sure that he was

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safe and his needs were met, and that he knew

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that he was loved.

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It's very important for a young adult. It is absolutely anybody, honestly,

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like literally everybody.

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Yes, Yeah, just for general peopling. That's that's a really

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basic requirement. Cassie's Wisdom of the day. There you go, Yes,

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the more you know. On November twenty fourth, nineteen ninety,

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Neil stone Child disappeared. He was with his best friend,

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Jason Roy. According to a statement provided by said friend

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five days after the disappearance, the pair had consumed the

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better part of a forty ounce or four our friends

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to the Great North. That's a one point four leader

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bottle of vodka. Oh ada vodka. Yeah, that's a bit.

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That's a bit. That's a bit. It's not a judgment.

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It's more of an assessment of a task that I

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could not personally probably undertake right. Jason Roy's report stated

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that the pair had parted ways at around eleven thirty PM.

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According to Jason Roy, he had blacked out that night

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and had no recollection after the point of their separating.

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Okay, I mean, I know that happens, But did you

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drink that much? Yeah?

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If if you know, you have a night of you know,

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kind of partying, heavy drinking, whatever you want to call it.

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It wouldn't be until roughly a decade later that Jason

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Roy would change his statement. In his revised account, Jason

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would state that when he last saw his friend alive,

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he'd been bleeding profusely, a wound to his face gushing

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blood as he was stuffed into a police cruiser handcuffed.

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He stated that his friend Neil's parting words were, Jay,

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help me. They're going to kill me.

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Oh that's not good. No.

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Neil made that chilling statement on the very same night

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of his parents that November evening, the temperatures were below

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negative twenty eight degrees celsius or negative eighteen degrees fahrenheit.

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I have no frame of reference for that, but it's cold.

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I've never experienced anything remotely near that type of frigid

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weather like, yeah, and I can only imagine that, like

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especially like when you think about the wind chill, I mean,

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that's not only is that it's just so extremely cold,

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but it's it's very, very dangerous. Yes, it's truly unfathomable

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to me personally. That's a kind of cold that I

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just it does not compute. Findings of a much later

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inquiry found that on November twenty fourth, nineteen ninety, Constables

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Bradley Sanger and Larry Hartwig responded to complaints of a

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disturbance at a local seven eleven as well as the

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snowburied Down's residential community, reportedly involving Neil stone Child. This

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was shortly before midnight at eleven fifty one. It was

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a handful of days later, on November twenty ninth, nineteen ninety,

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that two local men, Richard Harms and Bruce Myers made

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a shocking discovery. The pair, who were constructing a fence

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on the property adjoining the Hitachi plant on fifty eighth Street,

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found a body lying face down in the snow. Renee.

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I really wish I had looked up a phonetic pronunciation

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guide something for your name. I didn't. You're a relatively

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minor character in the grand scheme of things for me. Sure,

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you're a nice fella. Rene Lagameder, at the time serving

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as a constable, now a sergeant, was dispatched to the

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scene and carried out a preliminary investigation. When the body

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was turned over, there were a number of heartbreaking discoveries.

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Number one, the decedent's jacket sleeves were pulled down over

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his hands, clearly in an attempt to keep his extremities warm.

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However, possible.

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Number two, and this is the fact that everyone specifically mentions,

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and it's that one of his shoes was missing, which

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I would argue is almost certainly never ideal, But the

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official report goes a step further documenting a detail that

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I found even more sad, the wool sock on his

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right foot, which was the one that was missing. His

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running shoe was so worn in the heel that only

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that not only was his skin exposed, but it had

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clearly become discolored by treading over dirt and gravel. An

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autopsy was subsequently performed at Saint Paul's Hospital in Saskatoon,

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which is thank god, It's like one of the most

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fun words to say. It's kind of the only bright

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spot in this I'm not gonna lie. The pathologist concluded

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that the cause of death was hypothermia, which makes me

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feel like maybe I could be a pathologist. You've probably

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already guessed. This poor soul was later I identified as

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Neil's stone Child. It would be made clear in hindsight

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that it wasn't the first, nor would it be the last,

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time that an Indigenous man, woman, or child would be

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left out in the cold by law enforcement in an

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intentional and incredibly cruel act. Though Neil's body had been

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recovered from an undeveloped field in an extremely isolated industrial area,

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the Saskatoon Police Services investigation into Neil stone Child's death

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determined that there was no evidence of foul play. Officially,

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his death has never been ruled a homicide.

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Okay, I mean I I'm sure you're going to tell

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us more evidence, right, because the things you've told me

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so far don't I can't remember anything sounding like he

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couldn't have just wandered away.

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But m.

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Yeah, this is usually not why we're here.

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So yeah, yeah, no, that's fair, that's a fair assessment.

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Here's the thing, And I've heard a lot of accounts

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from people that live in or around the area where

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he was discovered and where he lived. I actually listened

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to another podcast that they went and visited the field

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where he was found. Neil had no reason to be

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in that area where he was found. It was at

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least twelve kilometers away by car from where he was

229
00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:51.080
previously or last seen. You're not walking that that's very far.

230
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:55.879
It's almost eight miles at minimum. He had no means

231
00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.399
of transport. He didn't have a car or a bike,

232
00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.399
and public transit would have been fairly limited at that

233
00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.720
time of night, especially in an industrial area that was

234
00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:13.480
not particularly populous. So how and why did he end

235
00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:18.599
up there? Despite what might seem a charming nickname, nothing

236
00:17:18.839 --> 00:17:23.880
can prepare you for the horror that is A starlight

237
00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:32.160
tour in the Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta provinces of Western Canada.

238
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.960
Law enforcement became known for the practice of picking up

239
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:42.400
or otherwise detaining Indigenous people, in some cases for fabricated crimes,

240
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:47.319
only to later abandon them in isolated and often extremely

241
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:56.039
treacherous conditions. Why because racism. I just I don't understand it.

242
00:17:57.640 --> 00:18:01.079
I don't want to understand it. I feel like that's

243
00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:04.720
the thing, is that it truly is one of I

244
00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:08.359
just I can't really wrap my head around it, around it.

245
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:12.839
I know that rural law enforcement in a lot of

246
00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:19.160
jurisdictions has there have been documented cases of like kind

247
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:23.200
of a similar practice, but in the case where somebody's

248
00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.200
literally going to die of exposure.

249
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:29.480
I can't. I can't.

250
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:31.000
I can't understand that.

251
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:35.680
It's not okay anyway, It's not okay. Is that literally

252
00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:39.000
the purpose of Is that why they're doing that? To

253
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:41.799
drop them off so they don't make it home. I

254
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:43.400
don't know. I don't know.

255
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:49.960
It seems like anybody who lives in you know, these

256
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:54.640
somewhat smaller communities, and you know the time of year

257
00:18:54.680 --> 00:19:00.240
that it is, you're a Canadian resident, you understand and

258
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:05.119
how serious it is to be out in those temperatures

259
00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:09.000
I don't see how you could expect there to be

260
00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:13.079
any other outcome. This is before cell phones, this is

261
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:21.880
before uber like. What could you possibly have thought would happen?

262
00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:23.799
Certainly nothing good.

263
00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:28.079
That's the only end result I could see. Yeah.

264
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:32.640
Most sources state the practice was first documented dating back

265
00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:37.240
to nineteen seventy six, though the history of racism against

266
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.279
the indigenous population has certainly been documented for hundreds of

267
00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:46.960
years prior to this, and in many places, literally on

268
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:53.920
multiple continents. Some have even stated that the horrific phenomenon

269
00:19:54.079 --> 00:19:59.480
of starlight tours has continued, though the most well documented

270
00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:05.559
cases have taken place decades prior. And I don't think

271
00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:11.680
it stopped because people stopped wanting to give starlight tours.

272
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:16.519
I think it stopped because enough of these were documented

273
00:20:16.759 --> 00:20:20.960
and enough of the information made it into the public

274
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:25.079
consciousness that it had to stop.

275
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.599
Why they call it that, that's terrible?

276
00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:33.319
It is In any case, fatalities related to the starlight

277
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:38.079
tours have been documented with alarming frequency, and are thus

278
00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:44.680
often collectively referred to as the Saskatoon freezing deaths within

279
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:49.319
that province. Of course, it goes without saying that this

280
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:53.799
type of behavior runs contrary to what many might envisage

281
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:59.359
as the mission of law enforcement to protect and serve. Seriously,

282
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.759
one Reddit comment provides an insightful summary of the practice

283
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:10.960
in all hostile views of Indigenous people, Colonial police institutions,

284
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:16.839
and institutionalized indifference make the Starlight tourist shocking but not surprising.

285
00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:20.640
They're part of a wider pattern of how colonial and

286
00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:26.319
state institutions treat Indigenous people. There's a well established pattern

287
00:21:26.480 --> 00:21:32.319
of abuses against indigenous populations in not just the United

288
00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:37.279
States and Canada, but the world over. Neil's friend, Jason

289
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:41.680
Roy and his family were ultimately placed in an RCMP

290
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:47.200
witness protection program as a result of the shocking turnabout

291
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.279
in his testimony.

292
00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:50.279
Wow, that's intense.

293
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:54.640
It would take thirteen years for an inquiry to be

294
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.200
launched into the death of Neil's stone child.

295
00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:03.839
Thirteen years? Yes? Did it only happen because he came forward?

296
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.559
And with the new information? Is that why? Or was

297
00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:09.240
there another reason? That was a big part of it? Okay,

298
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:10.759
my god, it took that out there.

299
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:16.279
I believe that, Like I said, this was not an

300
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:24.880
isolated situation. And there are other documented cases and I'm

301
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.799
going to touch on another one of them and I

302
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.960
think I think that also played a part. During the

303
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:35.240
course of that investigation, the two officers, Constables Brad Sanger

304
00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:41.519
and Larry Hartwood, were charged with unlawful confinement, despite maintaining

305
00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:44.880
they had no contact with Neil stone Child on the

306
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.240
night in question and that they were not responsible for

307
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:52.640
his death. They literally, for over a decade were up

308
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:56.880
and down that they had not interacted with this young

309
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:03.599
man that evening. Okay, which is so easily proven false.

310
00:23:04.359 --> 00:23:09.119
The final report produced from the inquiry would profer significant

311
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:14.079
evidence that appeared to strongly contradict their assertion on both points.

312
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.119
Okay, this is what I've been waiting for, some evidence.

313
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.640
Let's go.

314
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:21.880
I'm barely even going to touch the tip of the

315
00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:27.519
iceberg because there's there's so much and a lot. It's

316
00:23:27.559 --> 00:23:32.839
frustrating because unfortunately, what really happened here is they were

317
00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:39.240
like hypothermia bummer, and the initial investigation.

318
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:40.079
Was so shitty.

319
00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:44.240
That I I don't think I need to tell you

320
00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:45.880
how this is going to play out.

321
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:48.920
I will, but I just I want to know what

322
00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:51.079
you know. I know that there's more to this story,

323
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.839
and I want to know what you know, Caitlin. So

324
00:23:53.960 --> 00:23:55.680
let's go tell me what you know.

325
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:01.680
I know, I don't know why I did this to us,

326
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:05.640
because it's important to it is, talk about it and

327
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:07.000
not let people get away with.

328
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:09.960
Bullshit literally murder. Yeah.

329
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.240
Both men were fired by the Saskatoon Police Department in

330
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:21.920
two thousand and four, though they were ultimately never criminally charged.

331
00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:27.559
The city's deputy police chief, however, was charged with disreputable

332
00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:32.880
conduct under the Police Act, uh, which I didn't see

333
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.359
a lot of details around what kind of a sentence

334
00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:40.599
that carries. I can't imagine that that's anything, but that

335
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:43.279
just feels like something they did to appease the public.

336
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.799
I was gonna say, that doesn't sound like anything like

337
00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:50.000
a slap on the wrist type of thing.

338
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.400
Yes, it really sounds like a big bag and nothing. Yeah,

339
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:57.160
it's a big bag of Nope is what that is for?

340
00:24:57.319 --> 00:24:59.160
Something so fucking serious?

341
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:03.519
Like, Yes, it's kind of It reminds me in a

342
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:06.319
way of because I feel like it all goes back

343
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:13.599
to it's not just racism, but it's also like toxic masculinity,

344
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.839
because I feel like it reminds me of probably more

345
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:23.839
in like the twenty tens twenty teams where we started

346
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:29.799
to see like formal charges being filed against fraternity members

347
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.640
for hazing pranks.

348
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.359
Yeah, that went horrifically wrong.

349
00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:39.920
And I feel like it's like the environment can, in

350
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:45.319
some critical systemic ways, be very similar, unfortunately.

351
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.759
And this seems like it's not exactly the same, obviously,

352
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:50.519
but it does seem like a similar sort of hazing

353
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.839
type of situation, right it is.

354
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.680
It's like and I hesitate to even like compare it

355
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.960
to that or liken it to that, because that seems

356
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:05.119
in a way like it almost takes away from the seriousness.

357
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:08.519
But I feel like that also got really serious and

358
00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:11.599
in death too, it did.

359
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:18.160
And I feel like there are these very extreme situations

360
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.160
that have come out of what people thought was just like,

361
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:22.920
who won't it be funny?

362
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:26.960
Right, that's what it shows. Why would that ever be funny?

363
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:34.279
Like, I don't think you understand comedy at all, dude, dude, bros.

364
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:41.200
So remember Jason Roy, the best friend Neil was hanging

365
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:44.240
out and drinking with in the evening prior to his

366
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.960
disappearance late into the night. He stated that when he

367
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:51.480
had been questioned by police late that night, he had

368
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:57.400
given them a false name, Tracy Horse. Record show that

369
00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:03.799
Constable Brad Sanger entered the following queries into the CPIC

370
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:09.559
or Canadian Police Information Center at eleven fifty six pm.

371
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:16.319
Tracy Horse and Tracy Lee Horse. So to put this

372
00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:22.319
into context, they show up and they're responding to a

373
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:28.200
disturbance at eleven fifty one that reportedly involves Jason Roy

374
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:35.039
and Neil Stonechild. Eleven fifty one. Five minutes later, he

375
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:40.519
is looking up the alias that was provided by Jason

376
00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:45.960
Roy in the police database. Okay, so this is mere

377
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:50.440
minutes after he and Constable Larry Hartwig reportedly responded to

378
00:27:50.480 --> 00:27:55.319
those disturbances at the seven to eleven and the Snowberry

379
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:00.880
Downs Complex, both of which again were said to have

380
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.359
involved Neil. The two of them were together. So tell

381
00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:09.799
me again, you never interacted with Neil stone Child. Oh okay,

382
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:14.920
they were together. You're literally looking up the fake name

383
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:20.079
that his best friend gave you. I see, Oh is

384
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:21.440
there another Tracy Horse?

385
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.599
I don't know, is there no?

386
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:31.039
Now, that alone seems like pretty compelling evidence that the

387
00:28:31.079 --> 00:28:34.599
officers were lying when they denied coming into contact with

388
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:38.119
Neil's stone Child that evening. I mean that right there.

389
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:40.599
I was like, it took me a while. I had

390
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:43.480
to read and reread the excerpt about this, and I

391
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:48.079
was like, who the fuck is Tracy Horse? Seriously, Tracy

392
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:52.319
Horse isn't real, That's why. Yeah, why would they be

393
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:58.319
searching for his companions fo alias if they never interacted

394
00:28:58.359 --> 00:28:58.640
with them?

395
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:02.319
I just yeah, clearly were they Were they going to

396
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.839
try to say, well, no, we interacted with Tracy Horse.

397
00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:07.920
That's not the same. Yeah, how do you know how

398
00:29:08.119 --> 00:29:08.799
Tracy Horse?

399
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:10.920
Yeah, never heard of her.

400
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:14.559
Who's ever gonna know? How would they know? How would

401
00:29:14.599 --> 00:29:14.839
they know?

402
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:18.519
But they fucking know because all of that shit's locked.

403
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:24.960
But the additional CPIC search query for Neil stone Child

404
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:30.440
that feels like very nearly, if not entirely, conclusive evidence

405
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:35.000
that the two officers did in fact encounter Neil on

406
00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:35.759
the night.

407
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.759
Of his disappearance and subsequent death.

408
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:43.440
Why would you be looking up this person if you're

409
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.480
not in any way interacting with them. I'm sorry, I

410
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:49.279
have to call bullshit, Like they're not just ra or

411
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:50.160
perhaps horseshit?

412
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:56.079
So what was it? Tracy Horse Horse? But they don't

413
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:03.799
just like randomly no, like they're not los No, yeah, no, no,

414
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.359
that seems like a bad idea.

415
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:10.920
Yes, no, In fact, they can get into trouble for

416
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:17.359
just like randomly utilizing police resources that way, so which

417
00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:19.880
obviously that would be a I'm sure that would just

418
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.680
be a conversation with the superior if it's.

419
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:25.519
Like the first time that happens. But yeah, I mean.

420
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.519
They're not just supposed to be utilizing like those databases as.

421
00:30:29.400 --> 00:30:34.680
Like, and it just happens to be a global search. Yeah, yeah,

422
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:36.680
like disappeared.

423
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:43.920
Yeah, Nope, that's I'm sorry, that's that's sess mm hmmm. No,

424
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.119
they fucking interacted with him, and that that log. I'm

425
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.559
sorry for legal reasons, I have to say, like I

426
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:55.279
wasn't there and I don't know what happened, but they've

427
00:30:56.519 --> 00:31:03.039
come on, come on the receipts. Yes, Yet for decades,

428
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.440
both officers have maintained their innocence. In the first interview,

429
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.799
Hartwig gave more than ten years after the inquiry, my skin,

430
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:16.000
I can feel it getting red and hot, he stated,

431
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:20.359
I'm not known for the things I've done. I'm known

432
00:31:20.440 --> 00:31:24.799
for the one evil thing I didn't do. What evil

433
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.480
thing I'd like you to name it? Yees, seriously, please

434
00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:31.920
please tell us tell me more about how you didn't

435
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:36.880
interact with this kid. The inquiry initiated by the provincial

436
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:40.960
government concluded that stone Child had in fact been picked

437
00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.839
up by the officers in question on the night of

438
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:47.759
his disappearance, but that this fact had not been recorded

439
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:52.680
in their log books or their memory banks. Additionally, it

440
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:57.720
was concluded that marx found on Neil's body, both on

441
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:02.119
his nose as well as his risks, could reasonably have

442
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:03.480
been caused by handcuffs.

443
00:32:03.640 --> 00:32:06.160
Oh. I was kind of waiting for that one, Like

444
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.559
I felt like I knew there's going to be something

445
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:14.920
with handcuffs involved. Yep, yeah, because he was he was cuffed. Like,

446
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.799
how do you think you would get away with it?

447
00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:19.559
It's going to be so clear if you handcuff someone like,

448
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.920
there's going to be marks, Like that's that's uncomfortable pain.

449
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:26.960
Well, it depends on how you It depends on how

450
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.839
you cuff them, right, because if you're doing it like

451
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:33.640
by protocol, I don't necessarily know that you would be

452
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:34.759
leaving marks, right.

453
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:37.319
Okay, Well, I'm thinking I guess I'm thinking of someone

454
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.599
like trying to struggle to get out of them. I

455
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.680
guess as well. Yeah, I'm thinking, and that's fair.

456
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:45.200
You know, I'm not well acquainted with the protocols for

457
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:46.359
handcuffing someone.

458
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:49.119
I guess, you know, we can ask my hand right,

459
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.000
And I'm bruise easy too, So I'm just like thinking

460
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:52.680
of me too.

461
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:54.359
I know, I would just be like all kinds of

462
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:55.960
like shades of purple and.

463
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:57.960
Blue metal around me. Is I'm going to get a

464
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:01.839
brun So I don't know, Yeah, I just yeah, it's

465
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.400
just sicky.

466
00:33:03.359 --> 00:33:06.160
Well, And I think ultimately what it comes down to

467
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.000
is like if if there were marks on his body

468
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:12.119
that showed there was some sort of a struggle or

469
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:15.880
some sort of restraint, Yeah, that's one thing, because that

470
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.200
could be a lot of other things. But if they're

471
00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:23.440
saying it's consistent with handcuff specific who has handcuffed the

472
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:24.680
police and.

473
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:27.880
He probably didn't handcuff himself like that seems very unlikely.

474
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:31.519
Yeah, I would say so, I would say, so.

475
00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:34.079
No foul play my b hole.

476
00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.079
As in your butthole, your bunghole.

477
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:43.240
I'm in a great man. Yes, it is bs.

478
00:33:44.319 --> 00:33:45.839
No, no no, no, no, no, no no.

479
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.079
No, it's not bullshit. It's horseshit. It's tracy horseshit. It's

480
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:58.759
tracy horseshit. Ghs, oh, look at you. You're working overtime. Baby.

481
00:34:01.799 --> 00:34:06.000
The report even confirmed that relations between law enforcement officers

482
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:11.599
and the local First nation's population were problematic. You don't

483
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:16.679
say ultimately, However, the report stated that the death investigation

484
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:21.760
conducted at the time was not adequate to conclude what

485
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.119
the specific circumstances were surrounding his death.

486
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:26.800
Yeah.

487
00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:29.119
I mean, that's one way to get away with murder.

488
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:33.320
Just you know, shitty investigation on the front end. The

489
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:38.920
conclusion of the inquiry has been heavily criticized. I think

490
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.400
there are plenty of valid reasons to be skeptical, but

491
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:47.719
I found one that feels like sort of a Florida

492
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:48.719
man thing.

493
00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.440
Oh boy, I can't wait for that.

494
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:55.000
I don't know, I'm not sure it's quite the smoking

495
00:34:55.119 --> 00:34:57.719
gun that it felt like when I stumbled on it,

496
00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:05.119
But I couldn't resist Florida Hello again. So this might

497
00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:07.559
not even be one of the best examples, but it's

498
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:11.880
one that stuck out for me. So take for example,

499
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:16.880
doctor Emma lu who contributed their expertise as a witness.

500
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.960
While she was born in Saskatoon and attended university in Saskatchewan.

501
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:27.079
At the time, she was working as a forensic pathologist

502
00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:29.559
in Miami, Dade County.

503
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:32.039
That sounds familiar, like I've heard that in a few

504
00:35:32.119 --> 00:35:33.000
Florida stories.

505
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:38.599
Uh huh, yeah, because it's from Florida. She stated that

506
00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:44.599
she did not have much experience with frozen bodies. No shit, Sherlock,

507
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:48.599
not in Florida, Miami Dade County. I don't know if

508
00:35:48.639 --> 00:35:51.039
you're aware, they don't see a lot of snow.

509
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:55.639
I mean, maybe it freezers. I've seen that on shows.

510
00:35:56.199 --> 00:36:00.400
Yeah, most of the time, murderers aren't going out of

511
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:04.159
their way to preserve the body or evidence.

512
00:36:04.280 --> 00:36:08.679
For you, it's like real sickos. That's why I've seen

513
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.679
it in TV shows. I hope it's not real. I

514
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:12.480
hope no one's ever ever done that before.

515
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:16.840
You know what, if it was on TV, it's because

516
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:18.480
somebody did do it before.

517
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.800
I will tell you that. I'm just going to say.

518
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:26.519
So, we've brought in a forensic pathologist as a witness

519
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:32.599
that doesn't have experience with frozen bodies when that's the

520
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:38.039
very specific set of circumstances the inquiry is hoping to evaluate.

521
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.360
Yeah, that's interesting choice. It is a choice.

522
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:47.159
I'm not well acquainted enough with her qualifications or expertise

523
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:49.719
to do much here. Besides, I don't know, just give

524
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:55.840
her section of testimony a side. I but it sort

525
00:36:55.880 --> 00:36:57.880
of just seems like, why is she here?

526
00:36:59.079 --> 00:36:59.320
Yeah?

527
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:03.559
I mean there are a lot of ways the people die.

528
00:37:04.039 --> 00:37:09.159
There are a lot of manners, places, situations where the

529
00:37:09.199 --> 00:37:14.039
bodies are discovered. But how exactly is her testimony helpful here?

530
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:18.039
I really, I really want someone to explain to me

531
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.079
why make it makes sense?

532
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:20.960
I don't know.

533
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:25.480
Maybe all pathologists are just equally qualified and nothing to

534
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:29.719
see here. I just I don't I personally, I can't

535
00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:31.239
see it. Not a pathologist.

536
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.360
I just I'm really upset.

537
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.760
I'm really upset because I'm like, these are very, very

538
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:41.079
different and I but we have to move on.

539
00:37:41.400 --> 00:37:44.000
I mean, I could see why you're upset. Uh huh.

540
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:46.679
Yeah, it's honestly, it's half the reason that I had

541
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:48.760
to put my hair up today, because otherwise there was

542
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.119
a really good chance that I might rip out a.

543
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:53.199
Hunk of it. But don'pe you doing that.

544
00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:58.920
Additionally, another recent case was fresh in the minds of

545
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:04.519
many from shortly before the Stone Child inquiry, which I

546
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.920
think makes it really difficult to parse out the complicated

547
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:13.639
power dynamics and emotions involved in reviewing the evidence in

548
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:20.400
cases like this, Officers Dan Hatchin and Ken Munson had

549
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:27.199
been incarcerated. When Darryl Knight survived and came forward regarding

550
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:34.960
his traumatic experience as a victim of the starlight tour practice,

551
00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:41.320
this is sometimes Honestly, I think the worst part about

552
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:47.480
his case is that you see it being touted as

553
00:38:48.079 --> 00:38:52.199
kind of an example of how officers are being held

554
00:38:52.239 --> 00:38:58.000
to account. But for reference when they were sentenced, I

555
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:03.400
mean it was months. They received months of jail time

556
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:10.599
for trying to abandon a person in subzero temperatures in

557
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:12.719
an isolated area.

558
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:14.800
Seems like attempted murder.

559
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:21.079
Yes, yeah, I think that should be attempted murder. Even

560
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:25.840
many years after the stone Child Inquiry concluded, troubling details

561
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:29.920
regarding law enforcement and the Starlight Tours continued to surface.

562
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:36.000
Even many years after the Stone Child Inquiry concluded, troubling

563
00:39:36.079 --> 00:39:40.239
details regarding law enforcement and the Starlight Tours continued to surface.

564
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:46.239
And this is the part that doesn't necessarily relate specifically

565
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:50.639
to Neil's case, but this made me so fucking goddamn

566
00:39:51.159 --> 00:39:57.920
bitchin mother fucking angry. I in the four year period

567
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:04.239
of twenty twelve to sixteen, the Starlight Tours section of

568
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:10.840
the Saskatoon Police Services Wikipedia page was deleted multiple times.

569
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:16.519
According to an internal investigation, it was determined that twice

570
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.559
said edits originated from a computer within the Police Service.

571
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:24.920
The call is coming from inside the house.

572
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:26.000
Wow.

573
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:30.599
A spokesperson for the force denied that the removal of

574
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.239
content was officially approved by the force, by the service,

575
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:40.119
by any official body. According to a report released in

576
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.239
March of twenty sixteen by The Star Phoenix, a quote

577
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:48.800
police spokeswoman acknowledged that the section on starlight Tours had

578
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:52.880
been deleted using a computer within the department, but said

579
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:57.760
investigators were unable to pinpoint who did it. The police

580
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:01.280
spokeswoman stated that the force is working to and I'm

581
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:04.000
going to quote because I'm sure should not saying this

582
00:41:04.880 --> 00:41:07.599
move forward with all of the positive work that has

583
00:41:07.639 --> 00:41:10.760
been done and continues to be done that came out

584
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.559
of the Stone Child inquiry. And all I have to

585
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:16.519
say is that bad Apple is lucky that the IT

586
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:21.440
protocols of the Force only keep logs of specific computer

587
00:41:21.639 --> 00:41:26.679
data for up to thirty days unless it's deemed necessary

588
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:28.679
for some specific reason.

589
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:29.599
Wow.

590
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.360
Okay, so they knew, they knew, they could narrow down

591
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.159
the IP that this person is using, but they can't

592
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:41.039
narrow it down to device or anything more specific than

593
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:42.159
police station.

594
00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.239
Right. I mean, I bet they know who did it.

595
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:50.400
I actually I looked at an interview that was done

596
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.840
with I think it was a college graduate student who

597
00:41:56.199 --> 00:42:01.159
was commenting on it, and it sounded I believe him.

598
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:06.239
I believe him, and I think this wasn't somebody that

599
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:10.719
was necessarily affiliated with the department. It was somebody who

600
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.239
was like, this is what the IT protocol is. There's unfortunately,

601
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:18.840
there's no like the cats out of the back. We

602
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:23.679
know that it came from within the department, but the

603
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:28.199
window of time for us to determine who specifically or

604
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:30.960
like narrow it down further, it's it's.

605
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.199
Gone, right and there's no way to get it. But

606
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:35.960
I just I feel like the people who are in

607
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:39.239
the department, Oh okay, I see what you're saying. Yeah,

608
00:42:39.239 --> 00:42:41.840
I see what you're saying. Yeah. Like, I just feel

609
00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.639
like they have to know who did it. I don't know.

610
00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:47.239
I feel like it happened twice, so either there's one

611
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:52.760
person and they're probably not somebody that is operating underneath

612
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:58.000
the radar. It's probably a known commodity. You know, they

613
00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:04.800
are probably aware that this person is maybe problematic, or

614
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:09.880
there's two people that are you know, who knows, I

615
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:11.800
don't know. Neither of those things is good.

616
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:13.280
They are not going to give it up, though.

617
00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:21.639
So bad actors, particularly those in positions of power, move

618
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:26.800
in our world knowing that many will partake in their misdeeds,

619
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:34.320
some directly, some will remain indifferent, and far fewer will

620
00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:39.440
oppose them or take any real action. But indifference can

621
00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:44.079
be very dangerous, and in a way, doing nothing can

622
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:49.320
be violenced too. Take the example of a disabled Indigenous

623
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:53.960
Manitoba man who was essentially ignored to death. I hate

624
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:57.719
that at the hospital he remained in the waiting room

625
00:43:57.960 --> 00:44:01.559
for thirty five hours. And this is the most racist thing.

626
00:44:03.280 --> 00:44:05.960
I mean, there are so many racist things, but it's

627
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.360
the most racist thing that I've read all day today,

628
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:13.079
and I've read it so many times. The hospital staff

629
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:21.360
assumed that he was drunk and passed out. Assumed it's

630
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:28.400
like the cruelest stereotype because we brought the fire water right.

631
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.639
It's like we introduced.

632
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:36.000
This to their happy, beautiful way of life, and then

633
00:44:36.719 --> 00:44:38.119
we shamed them for.

634
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:44.159
It because we're ashamed of ourselves, Caitlin, as we should be.

635
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:48.960
The hospital staff assumed that he was drunk and passed out,

636
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:53.679
only to later discover he'd actually gone into rigor mortis.

637
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.639
Oh my god, I mean, is it standard to just

638
00:44:58.800 --> 00:45:03.840
leave a drunk, passed out person in a er waiting room?

639
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:06.679
Is that what you said? It was? Yep, it was

640
00:45:06.679 --> 00:45:09.679
the hospital without just checking on them. I mean, anything

641
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:12.800
can happen if you're drunken pasted out too, like yep,

642
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.119
like choke on your own, bombit or some shit like

643
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:18.880
check on exactly, check on the person.

644
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:24.199
Like, regardless, this is still a fucking person.

645
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:26.760
I feel like, I feel like I'm I.

646
00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:28.920
Feel like I'm taking crazy peals.

647
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:31.280
Well, and they were clearly trying to get help if

648
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:34.920
they ended up in an er waiting room, so like, yep,

649
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:39.079
fucking help them. Yeah, that's what you're there for.

650
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.920
I feel like it takes a special type of cruelty

651
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:50.679
and indifference and evil to specifically drive someone out to

652
00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:53.800
the middle of nowhere in conditions that you know could

653
00:45:53.840 --> 00:45:58.320
be fatal. But this is just truly like the definition

654
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:04.760
of neglect. There were so many, so many cases, and Cassie,

655
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:08.639
they didn't they didn't just do this to boys. They

656
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:10.559
didn't just do this to adult men.

657
00:46:11.280 --> 00:46:16.840
I read about a pregnant woman. Wow, that's extra fucked.

658
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:20.440
It's so horrific because they came up with like a

659
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:26.320
special like it has its own like subcategory, the Saskatoon

660
00:46:26.440 --> 00:46:31.519
freezing deaths. So this happened enough times with enough frequency

661
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:36.960
to enough people that there are survivors of it. But

662
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:40.880
there are also enough documented fatalities that it like like

663
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:41.519
it has.

664
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:44.679
A name that's just so horrific.

665
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:49.400
It probably goes without saying at this point, but I

666
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.360
cried a lot through the course of putting this case together.

667
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:57.760
I remember one night I was writing this up and

668
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:02.480
the cover page of the report that the inquiry produced,

669
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:05.719
it's a crime scene photo of Neil.

670
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:11.719
The cover page, Okay, you.

671
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:19.039
Can see the Hitachi like the manufacturing plant, their industrial space.

672
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.599
You can see that in the background.

673
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:26.440
Wow. And I had to close the office door because

674
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:27.599
I just I.

675
00:47:27.599 --> 00:47:30.960
Was like, this isn't going to be I'm not going

676
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:35.119
to cry in a way that like it was full

677
00:47:35.239 --> 00:47:39.519
ugly cry and that's okay, And I feel like I

678
00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:43.639
needed to do that because the idea that someone would

679
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:49.719
be so cruel it's never okay to hurt another human, right,

680
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:53.559
But I feel like so many of us can understand

681
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:58.199
kind of in some way, we can understand where maybe

682
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:00.320
you are pushed to the edge and you.

683
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:03.760
Do something you know, horrific. I don't know. I'm trying.

684
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.320
I'm struggling to put into words because I feel like,

685
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:12.000
if you kill someone with a gun, like you killed

686
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.239
them and I hope that they're suffering. Is I hope

687
00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:20.719
that doesn't last long? Yeah, But for somebody to die

688
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:23.239
of hypothermia.

689
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:26.440
I mean, it's like torture, it is.

690
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:29.639
I mean, and he was a kid. I mean to

691
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:33.159
just say, like, I don't even care enough to actually

692
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.079
kill you. I'm just gonna leave you. I don't something

693
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:41.599
about that. I feel like it's like I don't even

694
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:45.639
care enough to kill you. Yeah, I'm not even gonna

695
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:46.239
do it myself.

696
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:46.679
I don't know.

697
00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:48.199
Maybe that makes no sense.

698
00:48:48.280 --> 00:48:50.559
I just know it makes total sense to me because

699
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:52.679
it's like you're leaving them knowing that they're going to

700
00:48:52.679 --> 00:48:53.480
be suffering.

701
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:56.760
I think that's what I'm trying to get it. And

702
00:48:56.800 --> 00:48:59.000
I feel like maybe I'm going about saying it the

703
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.280
wrong way because part of me is like I think

704
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.920
some of us can understand what it would be like if,

705
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:09.719
like in a moment of like passion where you like

706
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:12.199
fire a gun at someone. I don't ever want to

707
00:49:12.239 --> 00:49:14.599
be in that position, and I hope that no one else.

708
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:18.440
Obviously somebody is going to be in that position someday,

709
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:22.920
but like, but to just be so callous, it's just

710
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:27.039
so ugly. It's so ugly, and for it to be

711
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:31.920
someone who is supposed to be serving this community is

712
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:37.760
just yeah, to be honest, I think because so much

713
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:41.719
related to this story, it doesn't seem to offer the

714
00:49:41.840 --> 00:49:46.480
outcome that we would hope for. I really struggle to

715
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:50.519
figure out a way to conclude this, and I for patrons,

716
00:49:50.719 --> 00:49:55.079
I'm I'm definitely going to be continuing a conversation related

717
00:49:55.119 --> 00:50:01.159
to murals, particularly some in rehabilitation or correctional facilities. Oh,

718
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:05.280
I like that randomly, it just sort of popped up.

719
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.960
It's random. It's random because it's like from all over

720
00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.719
the world too. And I might go and look for

721
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:16.960
some more to add in, but I guess the rest

722
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:20.599
of us have to fall back on finding some sort

723
00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:25.159
of bright side with the tarot reading. I guess I

724
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:27.199
guess I'm saying, let's hope it's a good one this week,

725
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:28.519
not a nasty one.

726
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:30.599
Yeah, that's all I got for you.

727
00:50:31.199 --> 00:50:36.239
I mean this, Yeah, I think maybe that's the worst part.

728
00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:40.760
Though his family knows what happened, but like it doesn't

729
00:50:40.800 --> 00:50:44.880
feel finished, it doesn't feel like and they never got

730
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:47.199
justice for this and they never will.

731
00:50:47.599 --> 00:50:50.239
Yeah, that's exactly what was just going through my head,

732
00:50:50.280 --> 00:50:52.920
Like there wasn't any real justice at all, even if

733
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:54.039
you know what happened.

734
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:57.559
I think that was the hardest part is that so often,

735
00:50:57.840 --> 00:51:02.639
you know, I do talk about cases where it's like,

736
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:07.280
you know, eventually it feels like there's something that feels

737
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:10.280
like a silver lining, and I just.

738
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:13.840
It's so sorely lacking here.

739
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:17.199
I can't I can't promise that like every week, I

740
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:20.880
can't promise that they're all going to end well. But

741
00:51:21.079 --> 00:51:24.360
like this one just seemed like it just got worse

742
00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:27.159
and worse and worse no matter what I no matter

743
00:51:27.400 --> 00:51:30.480
what ankle or what right where I tried to go.

744
00:51:30.639 --> 00:51:33.760
It just I mean, I do see one bright spot

745
00:51:33.880 --> 00:51:38.719
is like obviously you're talking about it. People know, yeah,

746
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.679
and they know that people know, so hopefully it doesn't

747
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:47.000
keep happening like now. Yeah, But I mean I know

748
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:49.239
a lot. Obviously, I know the world we live in, y'all.

749
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.079
I know that a lot of terrible things are happening.

750
00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:57.119
But it's important that you know, at least people know,

751
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:00.760
Like it's not being completely buried and hidden, and there's

752
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:03.280
a light on it, so watch the fuck out.

753
00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:06.800
That's kind of where I land on this too. It's like, well,

754
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:10.000
it doesn't It's not always going to have a nice

755
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:14.480
neat ending. And I guess I just have to live

756
00:52:14.519 --> 00:52:16.280
with that us too.

757
00:52:16.400 --> 00:52:18.519
Thanks. I want to feel bad for.

758
00:52:18.559 --> 00:52:21.480
Us, and then I think, you know what, think about

759
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:23.679
what their family is going through.

760
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:26.280
Yeah, people have to live with a lot worse.

761
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:29.480
That being said, we should all be taking care of

762
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:34.280
our mental health because we don't want we don't want

763
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:35.320
to become monsters.

764
00:52:35.840 --> 00:52:37.960
I mean, I know we call you guys creepy people,

765
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:41.559
but don't be like that creepy, you know, I mean creepy,

766
00:52:41.679 --> 00:52:45.599
but not like a monster. Don't be a monster unless

767
00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:46.639
it's a cool monster.

768
00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:50.719
I don't know, like a sparkly vampire or something.

769
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:58.800
Oh oh my god, well OK, yeah, pull out your deck.

770
00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:03.639
Let's see what we get. Is there hope for future? Tarot? Oh? Taro? Wise,

771
00:53:03.760 --> 00:53:12.559
Tarot sending vibes thinking about like I hate to say,

772
00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:15.719
like I don't want these people's deaths to like what

773
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:19.119
is that like like in vain? In vain? Yeah, but

774
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:22.239
like it sucks that anybody even had to go through

775
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:22.719
this all.

776
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.599
Like I don't want I know, I want to live

777
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.639
in a world where that, like things like that just

778
00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.239
don't have to happen. If that makes sense.

779
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:36.679
They don't have to happen, is the problem. Yeah, I

780
00:53:36.719 --> 00:53:38.039
feel like that's what I feel like.

781
00:53:38.079 --> 00:53:39.440
I'm glad we're on the same page.

782
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:42.440
There. Actually very easy for that type of thing not

783
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:50.480
to happen. Say more, take them home, yeah, yeah, no,

784
00:53:50.639 --> 00:53:52.400
for real, don't pick them up at all.

785
00:53:53.480 --> 00:53:58.280
And honestly, honestly, I feel like I'm glad they got fired,

786
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:03.079
and they should be, because if they looked up Neil,

787
00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:07.519
they probably should have realized that he should not have

788
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:11.480
just been loose. I'm sure he had a curfew. I

789
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:15.239
didn't see anything specifically about it, but typically when you

790
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:19.360
are living or supposed to be living in like a

791
00:54:19.400 --> 00:54:24.000
facility for juveniles, that's right, they should have taken him

792
00:54:24.039 --> 00:54:27.599
back there at minimum seriously, because like you could drop

793
00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.480
him off somewhere and he could like if he's.

794
00:54:30.280 --> 00:54:33.440
A criminal, you know what I'm saying, Like, you're just

795
00:54:33.440 --> 00:54:35.559
going to drop him off in the streets and he

796
00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:38.760
could run across any old person and right.

797
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:44.000
If he's if he's really such a juvenile offender, take

798
00:54:44.119 --> 00:54:47.679
him back to the group home where they are trying to,

799
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.519
you know, assert some rules and.

800
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:54.280
Have some super I imagine there's.

801
00:54:54.360 --> 00:54:57.039
Yeah, and I don't know that where he had been

802
00:54:57.039 --> 00:55:00.880
placed was necessarily a great situation. But I'm just saying

803
00:55:01.039 --> 00:55:07.119
like what they did was horrific in so many ways obviously.

804
00:55:06.679 --> 00:55:09.719
Just like completely wrong from like logical what.

805
00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:13.199
You everything about that didn't make sense and was terrible?

806
00:55:13.920 --> 00:55:16.039
Yeah, those are the vibes I send.

807
00:55:17.039 --> 00:55:23.599
Okay, great, Okay, tell me like left, right, middle, like

808
00:55:23.679 --> 00:55:25.480
where you feel left?

809
00:55:26.360 --> 00:55:33.719
Leftish, leftish okay, leftish, like a little bit left of center,

810
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:34.559
or like.

811
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:37.519
More left, more left, more left?

812
00:55:37.760 --> 00:55:44.920
Okay? Oh okay, this is the two of sword, my gosh, okay,

813
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:50.119
two of swords. We know this one. Well, bitch is blindfolded.

814
00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:55.559
That makes sense, not looking, not looking at things, ignoring things.

815
00:55:56.280 --> 00:56:00.679
Yeah, that's really true. Maybe just deleted it from your

816
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:01.920
Wikipedia page.

817
00:56:03.639 --> 00:56:06.679
Wow, Okay, I think that's like a mole on the

818
00:56:06.880 --> 00:56:10.360
RPNW deck that has all the I think it is. Yea,

819
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:11.840
it's got a mole coming out of.

820
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:15.480
A hole, a mole. I'll read from the P and

821
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:16.519
W book first.

822
00:56:16.599 --> 00:56:20.119
Oh, okay, fancy we get the poem.

823
00:56:20.440 --> 00:56:27.320
Keywords are indecision, difficult choices, confusion, and stalemate.

824
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.960
Didn't you say something about confusion, like right before you

825
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:33.960
pulled this card? I sink like you literally used that word.

826
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:39.719
I'm pretty sure acting with incomplete information and blindness.

827
00:56:40.360 --> 00:56:42.639
Could it be more on the mole's nose?

828
00:56:43.559 --> 00:56:46.880
I just don't think it could be. Actually, the mole

829
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:50.920
stopped digging as she sensed a change in the soil ahead.

830
00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:55.840
To one side, the earth was dryer and potentially more stable,

831
00:56:56.960 --> 00:57:00.320
but to the other side, the dampness might mean more

832
00:57:00.360 --> 00:57:05.280
abundant selection of worms and slugs. Maybe the roots in

833
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:09.480
that direction would keep the tunnel stable, or maybe she

834
00:57:09.519 --> 00:57:12.519
would go deeper where the soil was more densely packed.

835
00:57:13.400 --> 00:57:18.599
She wrinkled her nose and rested, paralyzed with indecision, her

836
00:57:18.679 --> 00:57:23.920
mind sniffing down the infinite branching paths that the future

837
00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:28.559
tunnel before her could take, But she couldn't deliberate forever.

838
00:57:29.159 --> 00:57:32.480
The mole made a choice and resumed digging, taking the

839
00:57:32.519 --> 00:57:35.400
first blind steps in her journey onward.

840
00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:38.760
H Yeah, it just makes me think of like choices

841
00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:42.760
and you make your choices, and you know, I feel like,

842
00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:45.440
you know the consequences of the choices that you make

843
00:57:45.480 --> 00:57:47.760
to drop someone off in the freezing cold, which is like,

844
00:57:48.119 --> 00:57:49.480
that's what we've been talking about.

845
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:57.440
Keywords are combined resources, courage, faith, friendship, conflict, and balance.

846
00:57:58.199 --> 00:58:01.840
In some tarot decks, this art depicts a blindfolded woman

847
00:58:01.920 --> 00:58:06.480
holding two swords crossed over her chest. Two's generally signify

848
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:11.159
balance or conflict, as well as pairing. I think of

849
00:58:11.199 --> 00:58:14.880
the two of swords as the blind faith card because

850
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:18.119
it can represent courage and making decisions based on your

851
00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:23.360
own truth and in some cases, spiritual guidance. The upright, too,

852
00:58:23.519 --> 00:58:27.920
can symbolize balancing the right and left hemispheres of your brain,

853
00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:33.440
combining intuition with intellect, which I would argue both were

854
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:35.519
missing in this case. Yeah, that was kind of the

855
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:38.280
point I wanted to make. We're like, we're lacking both

856
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:40.000
empathy and intelligence.

857
00:58:40.039 --> 00:58:42.840
It was very there was a big imbalance and a

858
00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:43.480
lot of things.

859
00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:47.000
Drawing this card may mean you must make a decision

860
00:58:47.159 --> 00:58:50.760
and need to call on both. This two can also

861
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:53.599
advise you to take off your blindfold and look at

862
00:58:53.599 --> 00:58:57.360
a situation. Honestly, do we even need to We already

863
00:58:57.400 --> 00:59:00.280
got it. I know exactly, you already made that point.

864
00:59:01.320 --> 00:59:05.239
Sometimes it do be like that. In a reading about money,

865
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:08.679
the Upright to recommends trusting your own wisdom and inner

866
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:12.400
guidance in a financial matter. Pay attention to your intuition

867
00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.800
as well as your logic. If the reading is about

868
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:19.199
your job, you may be confused or conflicted about a

869
00:59:19.239 --> 00:59:20.559
work related issue.

870
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:22.679
Who deleted?

871
00:59:23.119 --> 00:59:23.840
We don't know who.

872
00:59:25.239 --> 00:59:25.719
Exactly?

873
00:59:26.119 --> 00:59:27.800
Oh Cassie too?

874
00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:35.760
Oh yeah too? And yeah, so twice it was deleted yes,

875
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:39.199
and then wasn't there two officers? It was yes?

876
00:59:39.639 --> 00:59:44.400
Also that yes, two friends. But it was twice that

877
00:59:44.480 --> 00:59:49.039
it was documented as specifically having come from within the

878
00:59:49.079 --> 00:59:52.159
police department. It was deleted more times than that.

879
00:59:52.840 --> 00:59:53.760
Oh, I see.

880
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:58.000
I think it's to tifically document two cases from within

881
00:59:58.159 --> 00:59:58.800
the department.

882
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:02.599
Interesting. Yeah, two is a significant number I feel like

883
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:03.679
in this it is.

884
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:08.119
In a reading about love, this card suggests listening to

885
01:00:08.199 --> 01:00:11.159
both your head and your heart. It can mean you

886
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:15.320
and your partner hold conflicting perspectives, or that you're trying

887
01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:20.519
to resolve differences and find harmony. I feel like the

888
01:00:20.599 --> 01:00:27.239
reverse interpretation is so similar and it has parallels too.

889
01:00:28.239 --> 01:00:33.679
It I feel like specifically talks about i'll read. I

890
01:00:33.719 --> 01:00:36.519
feel like this is the most applicable. But if the

891
01:00:36.559 --> 01:00:42.079
reading is about your job, the reverse two represents confusion, indecision,

892
01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:46.960
lack of information, or conflicts regarding your work. It can

893
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:53.760
also warn that colleagues aren't reliable or trustworthy. Oh, you

894
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:57.599
need to look hard at something you don't want to see.

895
01:00:58.199 --> 01:01:02.800
Take a look at the mirror. Yeah, that's the perfect one.

896
01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:06.000
Just the blind The blind fold alone literally is just.

897
01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:11.679
Well, there's so much about this case, because as it

898
01:01:11.760 --> 01:01:15.280
turns out, with something like this where it's it's part

899
01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:21.440
of like a greater like series of occurrences, there's just

900
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:25.960
there's so much and there's probably nowhere near as much

901
01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:31.519
information as there should be, just given that it's like

902
01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.400
this is about you know, it's about power dynamics, it's

903
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:39.280
about racism, it's about you know, Indigenous people and how

904
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:43.719
they relate with their community and law enforcement. But one

905
01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:47.320
of the cases, and it's often kind of referred to

906
01:01:47.760 --> 01:01:52.840
as sort of the first documented case of the Starlight Tours.

907
01:01:53.360 --> 01:01:58.719
It dates back to nineteen seventy six, which is the

908
01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:05.239
bi centennial here in the USA Boom America. What do

909
01:02:05.320 --> 01:02:08.880
you mean we just had a nice explosion day. Yeah,

910
01:02:08.920 --> 01:02:14.000
we had explosion day. Yeah, I know. It's it's interesting.

911
01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:19.280
I didn't really think about this case in connection with like,

912
01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:23.400
you know, a lack of you know, national pride or anything.

913
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:25.639
But it's good timing, I guess. Yeah.

914
01:02:26.320 --> 01:02:32.480
Yeah. But that initial case and just the timing of

915
01:02:32.519 --> 01:02:35.880
it that it lines up with like literally the independence

916
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:40.559
of the United States as a newly born nation as

917
01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:44.559
it were, I was like, wow, interesting, that is interesting.

918
01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:47.559
I don't know, maybe maybe I'm looking too hard for

919
01:02:47.639 --> 01:02:51.360
some sort of synchronicity there. But the part that really

920
01:02:51.400 --> 01:02:55.960
got me is those officers weren't fired. I mean back

921
01:02:56.000 --> 01:03:00.840
in seventy six. Maybe none of us are surprised, you know, yeah,

922
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:04.519
but they were basically like docked two weeks pay, And

923
01:03:05.440 --> 01:03:06.000
like that.

924
01:03:06.079 --> 01:03:07.719
Was that slap on the wrist thing.

925
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:12.199
Yes, slap on the wrist is the exact words that

926
01:03:12.239 --> 01:03:15.719
were used over and over and over and over and

927
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:19.320
over and over and over and over in connection with

928
01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:24.039
this case, but specifically that incident relating, you know, back

929
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:27.800
to nineteen seventy six, and it's just like, have we

930
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:28.559
learned nothing?

931
01:03:28.719 --> 01:03:32.000
Will we ever learn something? I'm going to need them

932
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:35.840
to start issuing some heavy duty spanking, you know what

933
01:03:35.840 --> 01:03:36.159
I mean?

934
01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:41.320
Yeah, yeah, like I think we might need a paddle, Yeah.

935
01:03:40.519 --> 01:03:44.400
Like some sort of biked device. No that's yeah. No,

936
01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:47.880
no actual torture, but like metaphorically.

937
01:03:48.000 --> 01:03:51.440
Right, like I'm I'm over the whole slap on the

938
01:03:51.440 --> 01:03:52.079
wrist era.

939
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:53.119
Yeah.

940
01:03:53.159 --> 01:03:55.639
Oh my gosh, this one was a lot.

941
01:03:56.199 --> 01:03:59.039
Thank you for shining a light down the mole hole though.

942
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:03.159
Oh they can't stay hidden down there. I know, it's

943
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:06.400
not fair. Honestly, it just made me think of like

944
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:11.119
everything that's going on with like immigrants being like randomly

945
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:15.079
deported to different countries and left there, and like that's

946
01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:17.320
not even like where they live, that's not their home,

947
01:04:18.079 --> 01:04:20.760
So you're basically doing the same thing. It's just dropping

948
01:04:20.800 --> 01:04:24.079
someone off elsewhere where they can't get back.

949
01:04:24.599 --> 01:04:29.679
Honestly, that makes you, I know, because I feel like

950
01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:34.639
it's subconsciously maybe I don't. I don't think I could

951
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:38.280
go there in my head, but I feel like part

952
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:41.159
of me was like kind of in a way like

953
01:04:41.199 --> 01:04:48.800
subconsciously like drawing that parallel and just feeling like so upset.

954
01:04:47.599 --> 01:04:50.079
Because it's like it's still happening, just in a different way,

955
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:53.440
in a really really horrific way.

956
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:57.400
Because this is like the difference is that, like in

957
01:04:57.440 --> 01:05:01.239
these cases it was like a Okay, it's like that

958
01:05:01.400 --> 01:05:04.639
stereotypical like, oh well, these are bad apples and they're

959
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:08.599
you know, they're doing this when it's not like state sanctioned,

960
01:05:08.639 --> 01:05:13.039
and what's happening here is being sanctioned by the state, it,

961
01:05:13.280 --> 01:05:15.719
you know, if not in all cases, by the people.

962
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:21.039
And I don't want to live here anymore. I don't

963
01:05:21.039 --> 01:05:23.559
want to live in this reality.

964
01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:27.039
Yeah, I mean all we can do is just keep

965
01:05:27.079 --> 01:05:29.599
pointing fingers at it. Yeah.

966
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:35.000
Oh, No, matter what we do, this always just gets heavier.

967
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:38.519
This one was like really intense. I feel like we

968
01:05:38.559 --> 01:05:41.639
did two back to back, like Ghosty and then Fun

969
01:05:41.719 --> 01:05:44.119
Movie one, so we kind of were due for a more.

970
01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:45.159
Yeah.

971
01:05:45.360 --> 01:05:46.880
I mean, I said, it was very good to talk

972
01:05:46.920 --> 01:05:50.440
about and get it out, and it's important. Should we

973
01:05:50.480 --> 01:05:55.199
do it? Well, let's do it. Have a creepy ass day.

974
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.199
We'll see you next Tuesday or someone will.

975
01:05:59.760 --> 01:06:04.159
Yeah, one of our besties be out.

976
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.400
A mole hole, similar to a butthole, but for moles.

977
01:06:14.039 --> 01:06:16.599
What what what was it? No, I was trying to

978
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:19.519
think of what I said earlier about your bee hole

979
01:06:19.719 --> 01:06:29.000
about Yeah, what was I even saying? Substicious? No, suspicious?

980
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:29.800
What is it?

981
01:06:29.800 --> 01:06:36.320
Suspicious circumstances? What what's the saying, Caitlin help me, Oh.

982
01:06:37.400 --> 01:06:41.440
Because they were saying, no foul play, no foul play,

983
01:06:41.559 --> 01:06:43.000
my mole hole