April 23, 2026

America’s Only Emperor: The Strange, True Story of Emperor Norton

America’s Only Emperor: The Strange, True Story of Emperor Norton

What happens when a city decides kindness is better than cruelty? In this special crossover episode of Rainy Day Rabbit Holes, we’re joined by the incredible gals from PNW Haunts & Homicides to explore one of the strangest—and most unexpectedly...

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What happens when a city decides kindness is better than cruelty?

In this special crossover episode of Rainy Day Rabbit Holes, we’re joined by the incredible gals from PNW Haunts & Homicides to explore one of the strangest—and most unexpectedly heartwarming—stories in American history: Joshua Abraham Norton, the self‑declared Emperor of the United States.

Born into loss, fortune, ruin, and obscurity, Norton reemerged in 1859 with a bold declaration that could have ended very badly… except San Francisco leaned in. What followed was a twenty‑year “reign” filled with proclamations, public appearances, political commentary, and a city that collectively decided to play along.

Along the way, we explore:

  • A Gold Rush city bursting with chaos, ambition, and opportunity
  • A man who issued decrees abolishing Congress and the Supreme Court
  • A public arrest that backfired spectacularly
  • An Emperor who defended immigrants, challenged racist violence, and promoted civil rights long before it was fashionable
  • A city that fed him, clothed him, saluted him… and mourned him
Was Emperor Norton mad? Satirical? Visionary? Or something else entirely?

And why did San Francisco—of all places—embrace him instead of locking him away?

You’ll have to fall down the rabbit hole with us to find out.
👻 Crossover Love
Huge thanks to PNW Haunts & Homicides, where ghosts, murder, and Pacific Northwest weirdness all hang out together.👉 Follow and listen at: https://www.pnwhauntsandhomicides.com/
🌧️ More Rabbit HolesFind sources, photos, episode notes, and more at our website:👉 https://www.rainydayrabbitholes.com/
🎟️ LIVE EVENT ALERT
Love strange history in person? Join us June 3rd in Tacoma, WA for a live event at McMenamins Spanish Ballroom at the Elks Temple.

History Pub: Tacoma’s UFO Story — The Maury Island Incident
Presented by Steve Edmiston, Shea Drury, and Chris Staudinger

🎫 Tickets here:👉 https://www.etix.com/ticket/p/41193663/history-pubtacomas-ufo-story-the-maury-island-incident-presented-by-steve-edmistonshea-druryand-chris-staudinger-tacoma-mcmenamins-spanish-ballroom-elks-temple
Sometimes the strangest stories are the most human. Stay curious—and we’ll see you down the rabbit hole.🐇👑

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/pnw-haunts-homicides--5955451/support.
WEBVTT

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San Francisco, the City by the Bay, City of Fog,

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the Paris of the West, the Gay Bay, but never

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ever San fran Oh no, no, no, no, no no.

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And if you dare to utter the despised word Frisco,

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you're in trouble. But whatever you call it, it's a

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city of drama, a city of legends, and most importantly,

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a city absolutely crawling with legendary characters. And today, on

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this very special crossover episode, we're going to talk about

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one of San Francisco's most iconic legends in America's only Emperor.

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History is messy, weird, wild, anything but boring. We're rainy

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day rabbit Holes, exploring the unhinged side of history, politics,

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and culture. Let's fall down the rabbit hole. Dunt dun dum.

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Thank you. Welcome back, friends and spooky bitches, because today

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we are joined by the gorgeous Gabby gals from PNW

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Haunts and Homicides. Caitlin Say hi, Caitlin Hello, and Cassie

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you say hi, Cassie. Oh hello, creepy people. You might

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remember our beautiful podwives from last year when we joined

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them in their city of Portland to explore the Shanghai

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tunnels and learn all about the historic Crystal Hotel. Oh

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plus hot tub time. Oh yeah, oh yeah that stays

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between all. So I was gonna say, did we share that? Yeah?

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PNW Haunts and Homicides is where ghosts, murder, and Pacific

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Northwest Weirdness all hang out together. Basically, if it's spooky,

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weird or slightly cursed, they're covering it. So what are

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you waiting for? Go subscribe to PNW Haunts and Homicides now, okay,

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I'll wait. Oh wow, she's bossy.

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Shaye, you're hired.

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I do what she says? You, guys, I wouldn't I

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wouldn't mess around.

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Yeah, honestly.

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Now, before we get started, I think we should come

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up with a mashup of our two podcast names. What

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do you think? I'm down? I like it. Okay, So

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I've got I've got a top three, so you have

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to tell me what you think. Okay, So the first one,

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Rainy Day Haunts and Holes. Does that sound a little

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too sexual? I mean it could? Or could?

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Isn't that great?

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Yeah? Double? I like it? Yeah? Okay, how about this

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PNW Rabbit Homicides Rampant Rabbit hump Homicides.

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Well, I mean, we had, by mistake, been referred to

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as humps and homicides, so I feel, you know, it's in.

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The spirit of our show. So for me, it kind

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of it's like rabbits snapped and I'm just imagining. Are

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you guys familiar with Monty Python on the Holy Grail?

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There's like, yes, just rabit like a wheel, people in

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there and it's all it's got like fangs, it's got

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blood down, it's fur. I'm just thinking of that. Okay,

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So how about this one rainy day homicide holes? I

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knew it. We have a hole, Yes, had to have

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holes in it. Hole, I like the holes the holes

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have to say or does that just sound like our

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vaginas have knives? I mean, hey, that could be the

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cover art. Like a bikini woman. There's knives sticking out

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of the like like you know how you get like

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hair sticking out of the edge of the pin.

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That's exactly what I was picturing. Yes, a bush, a

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knife bush.

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I have not had a chance to research it, but

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I've actually heard about a device that they are using

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from what I remember reading in South Africa. Think of

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like almost like a diaphragm, but like a really angry one.

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Holy shit, and.

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They're using it as like a protective device.

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I've heard this before when say oh wow, okay, so

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it's got sharp pieces.

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Wow, yes it has teeth.

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Yeah. Interesting, Okay, I have to look into this. I've

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not heard of it.

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I'm going to plan to look into this for sure.

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I haven't had a chance to. I just saw it

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the other day and I was like, I.

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Think there are certain people that should always have that

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in place, Like if you're auditioning for anything in Hollywood.

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Right.

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At the abbey.

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Possibly a good idea.

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At the abbey. I heard that's real bad. You're on

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a private jet with millionaires. Certainly true spaces I was

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gonna say, I'm just gonna say, anywhere on planet Earth

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as a woman, Yeah, basically, yeah. I mean a lot

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of times you just have to have it in your purse,

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but in certain places you have it, but kind of

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like sometimes you have to Yeah, well.

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That's a different kind of purse.

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Yeah, that's where I keep my keys. I don't know

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about you guys. All right, no matter what our ship

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name is, it's definitely a rainy day in the Haunted

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P and W today because we're together, Okay, so I

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know that the assignment that we had agreed on for

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our crossovers was specific Northwest legends, but you guys did

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kind of go off on that because our episode about

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Finn's Treasure was not it was more Colorado and like

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it wasn't really P and W.

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The Wyoming Montana. Uh, I mean, yeah, it's adjacent. I

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claim them, Yeah.

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W adjacent. I do too, because they have yellowstones, so

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they have to be which is.

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What we were coming exactly.

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So you took creative liberties with the assignment, and I also,

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of course took creative liberties with the assignment directions. Now

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I recognize that San Francisco is not part of the

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Pacific Northwest. Somebody sent us a really terrible review of Cali.

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I don't even know that San Francisco is not part

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of the PAW.

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It's my podcast.

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We read somewhere that there was there was a description

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that once included parts of northern California, but I didn't

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see how far that's northern California is, so in some

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definitions it is also I.

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Always say, we're podcasting from the P ANDW, so whatever

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we talk about it counts, So shut the fucks there

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you go, that's true. If we talked about it. Northwest

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Japan now was officially out of the bazilfic Northwest it's

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on the path.

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Right, is another good way to get around it.

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And San Francisco isn't even part of Cascadia. But honestly,

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Washington and Oregon have way more in common with San

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Francisco than San Francisco has with southern California. I think

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I think.

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That probably makes sense.

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Yeah, And frankly, we have way more in common here

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in Washington and Oregon with San Francisco than we do

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with say, Idaho. I agree, where you're basically required to

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join a militia or be really shitty about trans people

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using the bathroom, I agree, right, yeah, I agree.

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I'm on board with the whole potato thing.

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But Cassie is not Wallace, Idaho. If that's a place

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we should go take a trip. Wallace, Idaho is northern Idaho.

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But it's like this little tiny gym full of transplants

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that didn't go there for the militia and it's just

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an art and fun and well, we will disown all

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of Idaho except for Wace. And they're quirky, I mean,

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they made They made a thing in the middle of

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the road that in the middle of one of their

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intersections that said center of the universe. Oh that's right,

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the go back to government. Yeah, yeah, do it. Because

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they in order to preserve their town and stop the government,

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they made all their entire towns and historic uh historic monuments.

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I love that. Oh yeah, that was right, because they

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wanted to tear down a bunch of the historic buildings

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to build the freeway. So they made the entire downtown.

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Because I ninety used to stop there and then you

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had to go through town, stop at the stoplight, go

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around a corner, a couple more corners, and then get

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back on a freeway.

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It didn't continue through at all, and so they wanted

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to make it go through by basically running through the town.

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And the town said, oh hold on, hold on, we

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got to fight this, give us a minute. And then

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they made every every building a historical monument so they couldn't.

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Tear down Very smart. Yes, I love that. Yeah, they

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have lots of lore there. They're crazy. While is that

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ho look it up. There's tons of hants. Oh yeah.

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So I would like to officially offer San Francisco a

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partnership with Western Washington and Western Oregon and consider it

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an honorary member of both the P and W and Cascadia.

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What do you think, Let's do it. Are you in charge?

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I am in fact, I'm in I'm going to make

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it a proclamation.

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Oh m hmm, by the power vested in Shay.

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The power vested in me that I've given myself. And

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this leads us into today's topic because this story isn't

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a legend technically, but it is about a legendary historical character,

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someone who like me, absolutely loved making proclamations. Today we

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are talking about Joshua A. Abraham Norton, the Emperor of

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the United States. Oh boy, oh, let's go back to

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our favorite time and history, the eighteen eighties, nineties, hundreds.

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I'll do that.

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It feels very timely right now.

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Though, uh huh, I know reincarnation. We well, this is

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an emperor that you would actually be like, okay with,

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I'd actually vote for this. Yeah, yeah, we'll get that.

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We are traveling back to the eighteen hundreds, a time

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of discovery, destiny, and questionable hygiene. San Francisco was exploding

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after the discovery of gold in northern California in eighteen

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forty eight. California wasn't even an actual state, yet almost overnight,

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Sleepy Port Town became a mud splattered carnival of ambition.

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Ships flooded the bay fast than they could be unloaded,

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so many that abandoned vessels were turned into warehouses, saloons, hotels,

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and occasionally mistakes. The streets rang with hammers and shovels,

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piano music spilling out of gambling halls, arguments in a

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dozen languages, and the constant hum of men convinced they

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were about to strike it rich gold. Dazed men poured

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in from everywhere, farm boys, sailors, dreamers, grifters, gamblers, young, broke,

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and wildly optimistic. And where that kind of optimism gathers,

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so do the people hoping to separate it from its money.

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If you couldn't mind the gold, you could mind the miners.

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The city was loud, filthy, and chaotic. Fortunes were made

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and lost Between breakfast and dinner. Laws were suggestions, justice

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was flexible, and reinvention wasn't just possible, it was expected.

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You could arrive in the morning and be someone entirely

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new by nightfall. In short Sam from Cisco was eccentric, ungovernable,

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and wildly theatrical, exactly the kind of city where the

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idea of an emperor of the United States doesn't sound

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completely impossible. And into this beautifully unhinged mess walked Joshua

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Abraham Norton. That's very imperial. What a name? Yeah, Jan

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for short? Hey Dan, my god, Emperor Jan. That's just

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gonna have ember Jan. I love it. Joshua Norton was

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born on February fourth in London to Jewish parents, maybe

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in eighteen fifteen, maybe in eighteen twenty or baby eighteen eighteen.

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Historians argue records are fuzzy for Arnon, well, they're kind of.

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He's probably born at home and someone said later, yeah,

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I think he support a couple of years ago.

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I'm pretty sure it was. Yeah, exactly. There were some

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things going on.

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It's the eighteen hundreds stuff at all.

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You know, maybe since he was emperor, he just didn't

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want people to know his age, so he's like, yeah,

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it was very secret documents, but most people have collectively

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agreed to just go with eighteen eighteen. A few years later,

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Joshua's parents, John and Sarah Norton, packed up Joshua and

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his two brothers and set sail from London to South

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Africa as part of a British colonial effort happening at

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00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:34.799
the time. Oh boo, so right out of the gate.

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Joshua's life is marked by big moves, imperial ambition, and

217
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people thinking they can just pick up and start over

218
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:45.360
somewhere else, which is brand.

219
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Yeah and colonial.

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Take what yeah? Oh, I like to have that. Okay. Oh,

221
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:55.039
it's kind of like dogs being on things like that's

222
00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.080
mine all that.

223
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I'm feeling a little bit. That's a little too close

224
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:03.200
to home for me right now.

225
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.519
No, nothing anymore. The puppy owns it all. Has somebody

226
00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:07.759
on your stuff?

227
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I don't what yeah, No, Honestly, I took my bath

228
00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.480
mat out of the dryer this morning, and the last

229
00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:20.720
thing that Charlotte did in.

230
00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:23.320
Like the hour before I hopped.

231
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.879
On to record with you guys, was too unceremoniously pee

232
00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:28.279
on it yet again.

233
00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:30.759
It's her pea pad. She was like, oh, this is

234
00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:33.240
nice to be here. It's also there.

235
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.039
Is a literal pea pad in is comfortable.

236
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This is fuzzy. It smelled good because it just came

237
00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:42.279
out of the job.

238
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Yeah, she's boogie.

239
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:46.000
It did smell good.

240
00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:49.799
Yeah, she is bougie, you guys, I hate to tell

241
00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.679
you my beautiful, adorable, angelic dog. Today I took him

242
00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:55.440
for a walk and he was rooting around in the

243
00:14:55.440 --> 00:15:02.919
grass and he was eating catshit no Broca's in the wild. Yeah,

244
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:05.240
that's what I was thinking normally out of the cat box.

245
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This is yep. So I have now been brushing his

246
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teeth and the cat's teeth every single night for the

247
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last week. So we'll see how that works. Okay, here

248
00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.919
we go with the same toothbrush. Actually, yes, I just

249
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.799
washed it between. They don't know, they don't care, all right. So,

250
00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.759
by the age of twenty one, with help from his father,

251
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Joshua opened his own ship supplies business. He was ambitious, confident,

252
00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.440
and clearly trying to follow in his father's footsteps. Unfortunately,

253
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the business went bankrupt within eighteen months, and then things

254
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:46.840
got much worse. Joshua's father's business began to fail, Then

255
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his mother died, Then both of his brothers passed away. Finally,

256
00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:54.320
in eighteen forty eight, his father, John died as well.

257
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Within a relatively short span of time, Joshua lost his

258
00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:03.399
entire immediate family. So with nothing left for him in

259
00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.159
South Africa, Joshua took what remained of his inheritance, reportedly

260
00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:10.399
around forty thousand dollars, which do you want to guess

261
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:11.440
how much that is today?

262
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:12.960
It's a fuck ton of money.

263
00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.440
Yeah, forty million? Oh no, not quite. That's very ambitious.

264
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:20.559
Nice job, four hundreds. It is about one point six

265
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:22.440
million dollars today. Oh wow.

266
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:23.679
I mean I would take it.

267
00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:26.240
Yeah, I mean that's that's a pretty good start. I

268
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:29.120
don't get him home, Yeah yeah.

269
00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:31.000
I would slum it with a casual one point.

270
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:36.639
I could take you for the future there, Yeah, yeah, true,

271
00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:40.240
Cassie True. And in eighteen forty nine he set sale

272
00:16:40.279 --> 00:16:44.000
for San Francisco and the promise of the gold Rush.

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And this is where for a moment everything works out

274
00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:51.080
for jan So I'm taking I love better than saying

275
00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:57.279
Joshua Norton. Norton got to work immediately. He established Joshua

276
00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.720
Norton and Company, a real estate and important conn and

277
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.480
within just three years had transformed that forty thousand dollars

278
00:17:04.519 --> 00:17:08.960
into two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is roughly

279
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:14.079
shit ten point five million dollars today. Get it?

280
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:19.160
Wow. Okay, So I've always said I'm not interested in

281
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:20.920
using the wija board.

282
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.759
I actually think I would like to get to this.

283
00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:28.319
Fellow, get a little like investment advice. I need something

284
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.680
I don't know, two materials. What do you think about

285
00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:37.799
crypto six six? Yeah, he increased it by six times,

286
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:43.440
right yeah, maths yeah cracious.

287
00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:49.279
Okay, well it went from what forty thousand and fifty Yeah,

288
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:51.119
it's just over six times.

289
00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.880
And house short of time again three years, three years.

290
00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.400
That's insane. Somebody who really has nothing except for as

291
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.839
far as like business skills or I mean, it seems

292
00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:04.440
pampered with his family, right yeah, I mean yeah it was.

293
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:08.599
He he started his first business at twenty one with

294
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.359
money from his father, and it was the same business

295
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:13.359
basically his father was in. His father was in like

296
00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:15.880
a ship supplies company. So he started his own company

297
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.039
and it failed within eighteen months. So you know, he

298
00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:21.720
turned it around, was able to make.

299
00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:25.559
A fortune created all by his own and he don't

300
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:29.279
call it a company, right, Well, he so he had

301
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:32.279
so it was a real estate and importing company.

302
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:35.880
So he was buying up land around San Francisco. And

303
00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:37.880
this is at a time during the Gold rush when

304
00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.519
people are pouring in, so the value of land is

305
00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:44.519
just going through the roof. He owned several tracks of

306
00:18:44.559 --> 00:18:48.440
land in San Francisco, including the extremely desirable North Beach area,

307
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:52.480
which we know is pretty fougie at this point. Yeah,

308
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:58.240
Joshua Norton or Jan was prosperous. He was respected. He's

309
00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.480
circulated in the upper esche of San Francisco society, and

310
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.200
he lived the lavish lifestyle of the very rich. And

311
00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.640
then came eighteen fifty two. That year, a devastating rice

312
00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:15.240
famine hit China and a ban was imposed on rice

313
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:19.440
exports out of the country. The result, the price of

314
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:25.400
rice skyrocketed by about nine hundred percent. Holy nobody could

315
00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:36.279
afford the San Francisco tree, Nice called Jony. Oh my gosh, Norton.

316
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:41.839
I mean, how much of the American diet was really

317
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:43.160
made of rice?

318
00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:44.519
I'm curious about that too.

319
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:45.200
I have to wonder.

320
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.559
Yeah, I don't know that that is something to look into,

321
00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:52.599
I know, especially in San Francisco at this point, Asian

322
00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.240
immigrants were pouring in because of the gold.

323
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.440
I think that's the bigger issue, is that.

324
00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.359
Yeah, the population that that time like part of like

325
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:05.119
their native food culture, they're probably not able to access

326
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:05.519
it well.

327
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:07.960
And part of the reason, actually, part of the reason

328
00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.519
that a lot of immigrants were coming from China was

329
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.880
because of this famine. So yeah, yeah, it was. I mean,

330
00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.759
a lot of these people were poor farmers, a lot

331
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.359
of them rice farmers, and yeah, there was a blight

332
00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.079
on the rice, and yet people were starving to death

333
00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.160
in China. So they were lured to the United States

334
00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.920
with this belief that they were going to come here

335
00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.480
and that gold literally grew on trees. Okay, So Norton,

336
00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:39.480
being a savvy and confident businessman, saw an opportunity. He

337
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:43.119
attempted to corner the rice market. For roughly twenty five

338
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:45.599
thousand dollars, which is about a million dollars to day,

339
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.119
he purchased an entire shipload of Peruvian rice at twelve

340
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.000
and a half cents per pound, when the going rate

341
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:56.680
in San Francisco was around thirty six cents a pound.

342
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:03.200
Oh damn, it looked brilliant, not uh oh oh, because

343
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.400
Norton wasn't the only one who had the same idea.

344
00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:11.200
Multiple ships carrying rice from Peru arrived in San Francisco

345
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.039
all about the same time, and most of the rice

346
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:17.440
was higher quality than the rice that Norton had bought.

347
00:21:18.000 --> 00:21:21.480
Oh no, so the rice market in San Francisco collapsed.

348
00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.599
Rice prices plunged to three cents a pound, where we

349
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.759
bought it for twelve and a half cents a pound.

350
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:32.400
Oh so, he tried to void his contract, claiming he

351
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.359
had been misled about the quality of the rice. What

352
00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:39.000
followed was a lawsuit that dragged on for nearly two years,

353
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:42.799
slowly bleeding him dry, and in eighteen fifty four, the

354
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:47.000
California Supreme Court ruled against him. This rice gamble had

355
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.039
ruined him. He lost most of his fortune over this,

356
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:54.599
saying he tried to recover. In eighteen fifty five, he

357
00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:58.359
ran for San Francisco tax collector, hoping that public office

358
00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:01.440
might help him claw his way back. It didn't. By

359
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:05.000
eighteen fifty six, at just thirty eight years old, Joshua

360
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.160
Norton was forced to declare bankruptcy. He moved into a

361
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:11.839
cheap boarding house on Kearney Street, and, in one last

362
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:17.480
attempt to remain visible, to stay relevant, respectable, just someone,

363
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.319
he announced his candidacy for the US Congress in eighteen

364
00:22:21.400 --> 00:22:24.359
fifty eight. When the election took place, the following year,

365
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:28.799
Joshua Norton's name wasn't even on the ballot. Oh no,

366
00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:34.720
So between eighteen fifty six and eighteen fifty nine, Norton

367
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:39.200
slipped almost entirely into obscurity. Many historians believe he was

368
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.960
in a deep depressive state. And it's hard to argue

369
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:44.400
with that. Yeah, yeah, right, that makes sense.

370
00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.599
Such highs and lows, I mean, not getting on the

371
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.359
ballot makes it pretty hard to win. And then that's

372
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.839
kind of a fiber. It's a whole thing. It's a

373
00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:54.160
real snowball that.

374
00:22:54.119 --> 00:22:57.720
We're you know. Within fifteen years he had lost his

375
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:02.000
entire family, built and law a massive fortune, and fallen

376
00:23:02.039 --> 00:23:05.480
from the heights of San Francisco society to near invisibility.

377
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:08.119
Yeah. Just stick a forkun and me's done.

378
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:11.200
High's and lows, highs and lows. For about a year,

379
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:15.160
he basically disappeared. Historians can't figure out what he was

380
00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:21.240
doing in that year. And then Joshua Norton jan re emerged.

381
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:24.400
And when he did, he did it with a flourish,

382
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:34.839
which we will get into after this quick break. Welcome back.

383
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:42.119
I'm here with Caitlin Oh and Jody. I'm Joey we're here.

384
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:43.599
We're here.

385
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:54.519
With Jody and Caitlyn and Cassie. It's like it's like

386
00:23:54.559 --> 00:23:56.279
when I talked to my brother on the phone and

387
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:01.599
I'm like, yeah, I was talking to my mom. Oh

388
00:24:01.640 --> 00:24:05.319
your mom. Yeah, it really is yeah. Yeah, oh yeah,

389
00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:10.480
your mom. Oh yeah, our mom. Sorry. Hen of the

390
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:14.599
Pow Haunts and Homicides Podcast. Okay, ladies, where did we

391
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.519
leave off the Emperor? He turned destitute.

392
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.559
Yeah, he disappeared, He had highs and lows, ups and downs,

393
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:25.240
disappeared and now he's back.

394
00:24:25.400 --> 00:24:31.039
He's back. Joshua Abraham Norton was about to re emerge,

395
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:36.559
reborn like a monarch butterfly if that butterfly came back

396
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:40.599
with the pinions and a god complex. In July of

397
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:44.960
eighteen fifty nine, Norton took out a paid advertisement in

398
00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:49.759
the San Francisco Daily Evening Bulletin. It wasn't subtle. It

399
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.920
was a full on manifesto addressed to the citizens of

400
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:57.640
the Union. In it, Norton outlined what he saw as

401
00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:01.000
a national crisis and made it very clear that this

402
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:07.480
crisis required immediate attention. Of course, and then in September

403
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:12.599
of that same year, he escalated, as one does surprise,

404
00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:16.799
Joshua Norton personally hand delivered a letter to the bulletin.

405
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:22.799
Inside was a proclamation, the first of many. All right, Caitlin,

406
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:28.400
you've got a pretty solid British accent. I'm gonna send

407
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:28.720
you one.

408
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:40.079
You're okay, thinking beans on toast.

409
00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.119
At the peremptory request and desire of the large majority

410
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:50.559
of the citizens of these United States, I Joshua Norton,

411
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.960
formerly of I'll go obey Cape of Good Hope, and

412
00:25:56.079 --> 00:25:59.759
now for the last nine years and ten months past

413
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:06.519
of San Francisco, California, declare and proclaim myself emperor of

414
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.720
these United States.

415
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:15.039
Community around on the plaza. It's not over. I'm sorry,

416
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.839
there's so much more, Okay.

417
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:21.759
So she led with really talking up my British accent,

418
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:24.400
but then she just said pompous and that was.

419
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:29.000
That's perfect, doing perfect, as I was like, thumbs up,

420
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:33.119
it's perfect, excellent.

421
00:26:34.519 --> 00:26:40.799
Oh do go on, and in virtue of the authority thereby.

422
00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:47.079
In me vested Jesus Christ, do hereby.

423
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.559
Order and direct the representatives of the different states of

424
00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:55.519
the Union to assemble in Musical Hall of this city

425
00:26:55.680 --> 00:27:00.759
on the first day of February next then there to

426
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:05.799
make such alterations in the existing laws of the Union

427
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:12.759
as may ameliorate the evils under which the country is laboring,

428
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:19.000
and thereby cause confidence to exist, both at home and

429
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:27.519
abroad in our stability and integrity. I'm sorry, that's just

430
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:29.799
really hard to say about the United States.

431
00:27:29.839 --> 00:27:36.839
With us and it hunger games or something. The first

432
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:46.160
Emperor of the United States, I vote Caitlin for Emperor. Yeah, Emperor. Yes.

433
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:50.559
The paper printed the letter in that evening's edition largely

434
00:27:50.680 --> 00:27:54.440
for humorous effect, and with that single act of indulgence,

435
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:01.240
something remarkable happened. Thus began Norton's twenty years reign over

436
00:28:01.319 --> 00:28:06.240
San Francisco and technically the United States. The San Francisco

437
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:11.400
Daily Evening Bulletin took particular delight in him, faithfully publishing

438
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:15.920
nearly all of his proclamations, often weekly, as Norton issued

439
00:28:15.960 --> 00:28:20.039
decrees with increasing confidence and frequency, and he wasted no

440
00:28:20.119 --> 00:28:23.279
time getting to work. The very next month, in October

441
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:28.000
of eighteen fifty nine, Emperor Norton decided to abolish Congress.

442
00:28:28.839 --> 00:28:30.240
Abolish Congress.

443
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:35.160
I think we all really need to understand that. Unfortunately,

444
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.680
this is what happens when, oh my god, I can't

445
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:42.160
even think of the word anymore. You know when we humor, Yes,

446
00:28:42.279 --> 00:28:46.559
that's the one. Well, boy, this is what happens when

447
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:54.559
we humor meetonger, particularly white men. Unfortunately, historically you give

448
00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:56.000
him an inch and they take a mile.

449
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:01.640
Call it six? Who are myoc This is the Emperor

450
00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.319
of the United State.

451
00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:03.880
You know?

452
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:08.160
Okay, it's just a vibe. Does anybody want to take

453
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:09.880
on the next one? Or do you want me to

454
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:12.160
do it? I will. Let's see what I can do

455
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:18.119
with this one, okay? Is imperial majesty. Norton the first

456
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:22.319
has issued the following edict, which he desires the bulletin

457
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:28.920
to spread before the world. Let her rip, Yes exactly.

458
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.000
Fred fart noises, fart noises?

459
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.680
Why do farts come up in every pumping?

460
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:37.799
My?

461
00:29:39.039 --> 00:29:39.960
Oh, my god.

462
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:43.960
It is represented to us that the universal suffrage, as

463
00:29:44.039 --> 00:29:48.400
now existing through the Union, is abused, That fraud and

464
00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.920
corruption prevent a fair and proper expression of the public voice.

465
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:57.599
That open violation of the laws are constantly occurring, caused

466
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:02.880
by mobs, parties, factions, an undue influence of political sex.

467
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.640
That the citizen has not that protection of person and

468
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.599
property which he is entitled to by paying his pro

469
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:16.039
rata of the expense of government, in consequence of which

470
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:22.079
we the Royal we do hereby abolish Congress. And it

471
00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:26.839
is therefore abolished. And we order and desire the representatives

472
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.440
of all parties interested to appear at the Musical Hall

473
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.920
of this city on the first of February next and

474
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.799
then and there to take the most effective steps to

475
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:40.200
remedy the evil complained of.

476
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.680
Okay, So now I really do wish that we were

477
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:49.400
doing videos, yeah, because I want I really would like

478
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:53.680
everyone to see my face when I say, sir, this

479
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:54.480
is a Wendys.

480
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.119
Do we know where he was for a year? Because

481
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:03.160
he right?

482
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:06.680
No more, he does not know where he was, because

483
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:13.079
I am quite confident whatever the appropriate hallucinogenic drug at

484
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:16.480
the time was pastime during that year?

485
00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:22.119
Was this when Elisiopia was that when they first accidentally

486
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.559
found it. I don't know. Did he trip on some mushrooms?

487
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:30.759
Did he find some masho Opian was rampant in that

488
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.759
in San Francisco at that time, So you know, Okay.

489
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:40.200
So the very next day after making the proclamation abolishing Congress,

490
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.519
Norton followed up with another letter to the Bulletin explaining

491
00:31:43.559 --> 00:31:47.160
that General Winfield Scott was not actually in the Pacific

492
00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.319
Northwest dealing with the San Juan Island dispute see our

493
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:54.559
episode on the Pig War of eighteen fifty nine. Yeah,

494
00:31:54.799 --> 00:32:00.279
but had instead traveled west to escort the Emperor to

495
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:07.680
Washington City so that Congress could be probably disposed. Oh,

496
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:08.400
of course.

497
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:09.920
Of course, of course.

498
00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:15.960
General Scott unfortunately declined to come and escort the Emperor

499
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.480
to Washington. End of excitement. I can't imagine why.

500
00:32:19.759 --> 00:32:21.240
Yeah, surprising no one.

501
00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:27.480
Undeterred, Norton's next act was to abolish the Supreme Court,

502
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:31.079
which would be nice. I wish abolished Congress and the

503
00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:36.079
Supreme ar out, But gosh, if only i'd bring Jan

504
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.119
back right now, vote Jan yeah, right right now over

505
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:43.519
what we have vot Jam He's actually saying sane in

506
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:50.519
this time, exactly. It's a great idea. Then in December,

507
00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:55.160
Norton was outraged by Virginia Governor Henry A. Wise, who

508
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:59.039
had ordered the hanging of abolitionist John Brown on December second.

509
00:32:59.680 --> 00:33:05.920
Thember responded accordingly, proclaiming, I do haded by discharge him

510
00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:10.240
Henry A. Wise from said office, and a point John C.

511
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:14.160
Breckinridge of Kentucky to said office of governor of our

512
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:18.440
province of Virginia. So now he's deciding who's governor. Somebody

513
00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.920
from Kentucky is now the governor of Virginia.

514
00:33:21.319 --> 00:33:24.920
Okay, well, I mean, hey, here's the thing is, when

515
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.319
your emperor, that is a thing that you can do.

516
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:30.000
It's his responsibility.

517
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:36.359
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well and an abolitionist, correct me if

518
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:37.160
I'm wrong, but.

519
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:41.759
Those are those guys. So he was mad. Yeah that

520
00:33:41.880 --> 00:33:45.200
John Brown, who was an abolitionist, had been hanged.

521
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:46.640
And as am I.

522
00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:50.559
And here's the thing is, Emperor Norton was actually really

523
00:33:50.599 --> 00:33:54.920
progressive for his time. According to the Emperor Norton Trust,

524
00:33:55.000 --> 00:33:57.680
which is an organization that has been founded to kind

525
00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:02.240
of collect all of the story about Joshua Norton and

526
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.079
keep it alive and honor him in the city. He

527
00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:10.159
was an adversary of corruption and fraud of all kinds, political, corporate,

528
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.320
and personal. He was a persistent voice for the dignity,

529
00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:18.119
fair treatment, and legal rights of immigrants and other marginalized groups.

530
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:22.840
Holy shit, So he commanded what a novel idea, I.

531
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:28.320
Know, especially in eighteen fifty nine. Yeah, really, he commanded

532
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.119
that courts allow Chinese people to testify because at that point,

533
00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.559
Chinese and Native Americans also were not allowed to testify

534
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:39.639
in court. So if you attacked and assaulted a person

535
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:43.280
of that was Chinese or Native American, they could not

536
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.400
actually testify against you in court of law. It was

537
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:47.239
a freebie. Yeah.

538
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:51.239
I don't think those were the only population, no, I know.

539
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.079
I think there were a number in San Francisco that

540
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:58.960
was horrific, right, yeah, yeah, that those would be the

541
00:34:59.000 --> 00:35:01.480
predominant group's impacted.

542
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:05.239
So yeah, he warned, the eyes of the Emperor will

543
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:09.480
be upon anyone who shall counsel any outrage or wrong

544
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.639
on the Chinese. So he was an advocate of the Chinese.

545
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.119
Yeah, fuck around and find out.

546
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:22.239
Exactly he demanded, love that for us. He demanded that

547
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.719
African Americans be allowed to ride public street cars and

548
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:29.719
be admitted to public schools. With respect to Native Americans.

549
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:33.480
He proclaimed that all Indian agents and others involved in

550
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:38.159
frauds against the Indian tribes should be publicly punished before

551
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:40.679
as many and I'm saying Indian because that's what he

552
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:44.320
was saying, but before as many Indian chiefs as could

553
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:50.679
be assembled. He supported women's suffrage woo like, so early

554
00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:54.920
start out thinking like this guy is crazy, which maybe

555
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:57.360
he was, but he was also kind of awesome.

556
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:00.639
Yeah, hey, listen to that can be true.

557
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:05.440
He was a religious humanist and pluralist who favored church

558
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:11.400
state separation, warned against puritanism and secretarianism, which I don't

559
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:13.239
know what that word is. I wrote it, but I

560
00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:17.360
don't know what it is. Refused to endorse any single

561
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:22.599
church or synagogue and instead attended them all. Oh, he

562
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:25.119
would just go from church to Oh, that's cute.

563
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:27.480
So everybody loved him.

564
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.960
They're like, yeah, he hangs out with us, like every

565
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:31.119
Sunday and or.

566
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:35.480
Friday nights got busy weekends, Sundays, yeah.

567
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:36.360
Yeah.

568
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.599
He also prohibited the enforcement of state Sunday laws, which

569
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:44.320
discriminated against Germans and Jews. He defended the people's right

570
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:50.159
to fair taxes and basic services, including well maintained streets, streetcars, ferries,

571
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:54.039
and trains. And he was an advocate for technological innovation

572
00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.840
when it served the public good. And Norton didn't stop

573
00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:01.159
at the US borders. Dicerned about the safety of the

574
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:06.039
Mexican people, he declared himself Protector of Mexico and ordered

575
00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:09.199
ten thousand troops to be deployed to Mexico City to

576
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:14.960
stabilize the government. He's like this obnoxious, crazy man with

577
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:20.920
all the right mode like ideas. Spoiler alert, the troops

578
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:21.679
were not deployed.

579
00:37:23.719 --> 00:37:29.599
Yeah, well it's them, Yeah, exactly exactly.

580
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.320
But eventually the fraud and corruption plaguing his great nation

581
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:38.079
became too much, even for an emperor. On his birthday,

582
00:37:38.199 --> 00:37:43.000
February fourth, eighteen sixty, Norton proclaimed that the United States

583
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:49.599
itself should be dissolved, declaring, we are certain that nothing

584
00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.599
was save the nation from utter ruin and falling to

585
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.760
pieces except an absolute monarchy under the supervision an authority

586
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.239
of an independent emperor and Supreme Council. Assimilation to the

587
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:06.119
Russian form of government, with such alteration as may be

588
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:14.199
adapted to the American nation. I'm concern Yeah, and then

589
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:18.719
all the same, Yeah, I.

590
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:23.320
May have follow up questions when my brain stopped steaking,

591
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.920
and when it became clear that no one was really listening.

592
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:28.960
In July he tried again.

593
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:36.639
Whereas it is necessary for our peace, prosperity, and happiness,

594
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.840
as also to the national advancement of the people of

595
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:45.440
the United States, that they should dissolve the Republican form

596
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:54.440
of governments, and establish in its stead an absolute monarchy.

597
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:59.519
We Norton the First, by the grace of God, Emperor

598
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.199
of the thirty three States and the multitude of territories

599
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:08.320
of the United States of America, do hereby dissolve the

600
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.320
Republic of the United States.

601
00:39:10.920 --> 00:39:14.039
And it is hereby dissolved.

602
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:17.599
And all laws made from and after this date, either

603
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:22.320
by the National Congress or any state legislature, shall be

604
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:27.360
null and of no effect. All governors and all other

605
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:32.840
persons in authority shall maintain order by enforcing the heretofore

606
00:39:33.079 --> 00:39:40.119
existing laws and regulations until the necessary alterations can be affected.

607
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:45.719
Given under our hand and seal at Headquarters, San Francisco,

608
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:51.639
this twenty sixth day of July eighteen sixty.

609
00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.920
That was actually in that what I was gonna say,

610
00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:05.519
like just some random gets up and just dissolves the

611
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:08.679
United States.

612
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:14.559
And listen, you guys, he's said dissolved twice, so like

613
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:17.360
he was pretty hus.

614
00:40:17.000 --> 00:40:21.480
Or meant it. He definitely meant dissolved. And this went

615
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:26.599
on year after year. Now, all of this might sound

616
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:31.079
like the ravings of a madman, someone who desperately needed help,

617
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:35.199
and to say it's not, but that may well be true, okay,

618
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.920
But instead of locking Emperor Norton away in an institution

619
00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:43.840
where the goal would have been to torture the madness

620
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:48.119
out of him, San Francisco did something unusual. They embraced

621
00:40:48.199 --> 00:40:52.440
him Ordnate for free at local restaurants, often paying with

622
00:40:52.599 --> 00:40:55.519
imperial notes that he made himself.

623
00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:03.360
Shut I dook up, he declared, I'm doing it right now.

624
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:06.360
Where is my little tiny.

625
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:11.239
Yeah, like, get canva out, I'm on this. Or he

626
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.360
would declare that he was owed taxes by the establishment,

627
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.840
and so they would pay in kind with food and services.

628
00:41:19.960 --> 00:41:25.480
Oh I love that he always had a seat at

629
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:28.800
plays and public performances. They would literally save a seat

630
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:32.559
for him. Residents made sure the Emperor was fed, housed,

631
00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:35.440
and cared for. Like people bought into this. He was

632
00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:38.320
like the pet of h I feel like they kind

633
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:40.760
of probably felt bad for him, Like, oh you think

634
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:45.800
your that's so cute. Yeah, they were taking care of

635
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:46.639
the crazy guy.

636
00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:50.880
Yeah, they're there, they're there, head pat.

637
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:55.079
He was even given a regimental uniform hand me down

638
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:59.920
pieces from both Union and Confederate soldiers, so his uniform

639
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:02.960
was a mix of both. Did they have the Salvation

640
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:07.719
Army back? I think so, I think goodwill. He carried

641
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:11.280
an ornate walking stick, sometimes an umbrella, and after his

642
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:14.239
death a small collection of walking sticks were found in

643
00:42:14.280 --> 00:42:16.480
his boarding house room, so he was really into these

644
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:21.639
walking sticks. On formal occasions, he upgraded the look oversized

645
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:26.039
gold eppelets, a sword and a beaver hat topped with

646
00:42:26.119 --> 00:42:32.360
an ostriche plume whoa oh in my and in his lapel.

647
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:36.360
He would always have a carnation donated by the local florist,

648
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:43.199
and his proclamations weren't random. Norton read newspapers daily. He

649
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.480
spent afternoons in the library reading, learning and writing. He

650
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.440
played chess with the locals. He attended public lectures and debates.

651
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.679
He even sat in on sessions of the state Legislature

652
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:58.840
in Sacramento. And in between he patrolled the city. He

653
00:42:58.920 --> 00:43:03.800
loved inspecting streets, sidewalks, and infrastructure and calling attention to

654
00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:10.480
areas that needed improvement. Beneath the fantasy proclamations were often thoughtful, articulate,

655
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:19.199
and elegantly written commentary disguised as absurdity. Yeah, yes, ravings

656
00:43:19.199 --> 00:43:23.119
of a madman. But beneath it there was substance.

657
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:26.280
But at least he was a well spoken and clearly

658
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:29.800
like educated and informed to some degree.

659
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:30.960
That's what I was wondering.

660
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:36.800
His proclamation proclamations were definitely phrased and written with somebody

661
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:39.880
who knew how to write official proclamations or had heard

662
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:43.000
them enough to be able to write. Yeah, they were,

663
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:46.199
you know, they were written like he had the authority

664
00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.159
to declare these things, which was the crazy part.

665
00:43:52.840 --> 00:43:56.000
He grew up in England, you know, which was a monarchy,

666
00:43:56.199 --> 00:43:59.280
so you know these were he was kind of familiar

667
00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:03.880
with that structure. So one of my personal proclamations of

668
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.320
Emperor Norton's had to do with the name of his

669
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:11.000
beloved city. Now this might maybe or maybe not actually

670
00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:13.639
attributed to him, but we're just for the sake of

671
00:44:13.639 --> 00:44:16.079
a good story going to believe that it is. Yes,

672
00:44:16.159 --> 00:44:22.360
we're going. So here's what it says. Whoever, after do

673
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:26.119
and proper warnings, shall be heard to utter the abominable

674
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:31.119
word frisco, which has no linguistic or other warrant, shall

675
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:34.679
be deemed guilty of a high misdemeanor, and shall pay

676
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.199
into the Imperial Treasury as penalty the sum of twenty

677
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:40.199
five dollars.

678
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:46.960
So no, okay, put it on my tip. I wonder

679
00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:48.760
how he would feel about vocal.

680
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:56.280
Fray and Emperor Norton may have even been partially responsible

681
00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:02.320
for the Bay Bridge true story. On January eighth, eighteen

682
00:45:02.360 --> 00:45:04.880
seventy two, he proclaimed, where I was going to say,

683
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:10.239
I hope it's a proclamation. Whereas we observe that certain

684
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:13.920
newspapers are agitating the project of bridging the bay, and

685
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.000
whereas we are desirous of connecting the cities of San

686
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:21.880
Francisco and Oakland by such means. Now, therefore we Norton,

687
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:26.920
the first de gratia, Emperor, do hereby prohibit the Ravenswood

688
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:30.760
scheme being carried into effect an order that the bridge

689
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:34.639
be built from Oakland Point to Telegraph Hill via Goat

690
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:40.159
Island and lo and behold in the early nineteen thirties,

691
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:43.199
So a little bit later, the construction of the San

692
00:45:43.239 --> 00:45:47.679
Francisco Oakland Bay Bridge began right where the Emperor suggested,

693
00:45:48.880 --> 00:45:52.639
And ever since then there have been efforts, serious ones

694
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:54.800
to rename the bridge in his honor.

695
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:55.719
I'm not mad.

696
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:58.800
Now I'm here the Emperor Norton Bridge. That sounds much

697
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:02.079
better than the Bay Bridge, Virgin Agin.

698
00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:04.800
The jan Bridge.

699
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:09.719
Eventually, the city's tolerance was tested in eighteen sixty seven,

700
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:14.360
a police officer arrested Emperor Norton under a law allowing

701
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:19.400
the detention of people deemed insane. Oh oh no. The

702
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:25.599
reaction from San Francisco was immediate and furious. I be

703
00:46:26.039 --> 00:46:31.719
newspapers mocked the arrest. Citizens protested, merchants complained. The public

704
00:46:31.880 --> 00:46:36.400
was not having it so this is amazing. The chief

705
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:40.639
of police not only ordered Norton released, but issued a

706
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:46.119
formal public apology stating that the Emperor had harmed no

707
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:51.079
one and was deserving of respect. So in response, Norton

708
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:54.079
did what any reasonable monarch would do. He issued an

709
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.559
imperial pardon, my.

710
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.960
God, he is an biken.

711
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:08.599
From that point on, police officers were known to salute

712
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:14.119
Emperor Norton as he passed them in the streets, and

713
00:47:14.199 --> 00:47:18.760
it wasn't just symbolic affection. Norton routinely used his public

714
00:47:18.800 --> 00:47:23.880
presence to diffuse real world harm. During one anti Chinese rally,

715
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:28.599
when tensions were escalating towards violence, Norton walked directly into

716
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:32.199
the crowd and began reciting the Lord's Prayer over and

717
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:38.639
over loudly, wo until the crowd grew quiet and eventually dispersed.

718
00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.719
It was one of several moments where Norton placed himself

719
00:47:41.719 --> 00:47:46.840
between vulnerable communities and public hostility, using spectacle, calm, and

720
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.280
moral authority instead of force. And like we mentioned before,

721
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:56.199
he even created his own imperial currency, beautifully printed notes

722
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.679
signed by the Emperor himself. And while they had no

723
00:47:59.800 --> 00:48:04.199
lead value obviously, many businesses accepted them anyway, either as

724
00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:07.920
souvenirs or as a show of loyalty. Today, surviving notes

725
00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:11.760
are worth far more than their face value. Ever was Wow,

726
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.639
if there's some left, Yeah, I think some businesses around

727
00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:19.079
San Francisco probably have. Sound so cool. I feel like

728
00:48:19.119 --> 00:48:23.960
going on a hunt. Now we got to look for

729
00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:28.239
signs of Emperor Norton. Norton also maintained a steady correspondence

730
00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:31.599
with world leaders. He wrote letters to Queen Victoria, at

731
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.920
one point suggesting marriage. I mean that's made. That's one

732
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.960
way to get become legit exactly. Yeah, that he could

733
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:43.480
have been Emperor king or whatever. Less a serious diplomatic

734
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:46.559
proposal and more reflection of how fully he inhabited his

735
00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.519
role and to support himself, he sold photographs of himself,

736
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.119
formal portraits that allowed citizens and tourists alike to take

737
00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:58.360
a little piece of the legend home with him. On

738
00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:02.760
January eighth, eighteen eighty, Emperor Norton collapsed on a street

739
00:49:02.760 --> 00:49:04.880
corner while on his way to a lecture at the

740
00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:09.079
California Academy of Sciences. He died before reaching the hospital.

741
00:49:09.320 --> 00:49:14.960
I'm come sad now, yeah, I notice miss softy. I

742
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:20.440
am a softy. The city mourned more than ten thousand people.

743
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:24.159
Some estimates go as high as thirty thousand. People lined

744
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:27.079
the streets for his funeral procession. It was one of

745
00:49:27.159 --> 00:49:30.880
the largest San Francisco had ever seen For a man

746
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:34.079
with no official power. It was a remarkable testament to

747
00:49:34.159 --> 00:49:37.199
how deeply he had been woven into the city's identity,

748
00:49:37.760 --> 00:49:41.719
and despite later rumors, Norton was not homeless. He lived

749
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:45.519
in a modest boarding house on Commercial Street, supposedly subsidized

750
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:49.559
by local benefactors, and despite persistent speculation that he had

751
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:53.880
secretly retained his fortune, no hidden wealth was found. What

752
00:49:54.079 --> 00:49:57.320
remained were his uniforms, his hats, his walking sticks, a

753
00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:01.519
single gold coin at a lifetime of carefully preserved dignity.

754
00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:04.719
Among those who watched Emperor Norton move through the city,

755
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.679
was a young journalist named Mark Twain. Don't know if

756
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:11.920
you'd ever heard of him. Oh shit, that guy, yep.

757
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.159
Twain would later model aspects of the character of the

758
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:18.599
self declared king in the Adventures of Huckleberry finn On.

759
00:50:18.760 --> 00:50:23.079
Norton a gentle, tragic ruler whose authority existed only because

760
00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.440
people chose to believe in it, and that may be

761
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.800
Emperor Norton's greatest legacy. He was never a con man,

762
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:32.519
he never demanded obedience. He didn't rule through fear of violence.

763
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:36.639
His power came entirely from collective agreement, from a city

764
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:40.400
that decided kindness, humor, and imagination were better responses to

765
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:44.960
madness than cruelty. To this day, Emperor Norton remains a

766
00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:49.079
symbol of San Francisco at its best, eccentric, defiant, compassionate,

767
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:52.480
and just a little bit theatrical, a reminder that sometimes

768
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:54.840
the most radical thing a city can do is choose

769
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:59.800
to care. That's the story of Joshua Abraham Norton, the

770
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:04.320
Emperor of the United States. That is just a crazy story.

771
00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:07.079
I wish there was a video at that time or

772
00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:09.800
some some way to document There had to be something

773
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:13.280
about him personally when you met him, because you know,

774
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:17.239
when you're reading this, it's just crazy. It's just crazy crazy. Yeah,

775
00:51:17.320 --> 00:51:22.400
it's hard to see anything else, but people truly, like logically, yeah,

776
00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:27.599
but clearly people did see him that way. Yeah, if

777
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:29.800
there's got to be photos, but like you can't really

778
00:51:30.119 --> 00:51:34.159
capture maybe all that wasn't a photo. But oh, there's

779
00:51:34.199 --> 00:51:36.079
some good photos here. I'm going to send you a couple.

780
00:51:36.599 --> 00:51:39.320
He totally reminds me of Santa Claus when you were

781
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.360
talking about how he existed because people believed in him.

782
00:51:43.480 --> 00:51:44.440
It's so Santa.

783
00:51:45.679 --> 00:51:47.960
Ah, that's so Santa.

784
00:51:49.400 --> 00:51:53.719
Yeah, so that's that's well, that was a great story, Shay.

785
00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:56.360
That was really we were very all of us are

786
00:51:56.480 --> 00:51:59.440
like so into it. We're looking them up. We're a

787
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:03.119
picture trying to picture how he was as a person.

788
00:52:05.000 --> 00:52:06.960
There wasn't just like a lot of respect from like

789
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:10.239
you know that that that quirky crazy guy down the

790
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:12.920
road that everybody takes care of. He's just a good guy,

791
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:15.960
harmless whatever. There. It was more than that they respected

792
00:52:16.039 --> 00:52:19.239
him and believed in what he had to say. Yeah,

793
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:20.920
and so much of it made sense, and then so

794
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:26.920
it so much didn't. Yeah, Well, you know everyone has

795
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:32.239
ideas the other way around. Actually, it was more of

796
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:35.960
his approach if he hadn't declared himself emperor and made

797
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:39.960
all these proclamations and ended the United States, Like you know,

798
00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:42.800
he was onto some things with human rights, and he

799
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:48.400
was onto something with with abolishing Congress. Yeah, well, I

800
00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:51.840
mean they're useless at this point, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he

801
00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:57.280
really became kind of like a mascot of San Francisco.

802
00:52:57.679 --> 00:53:00.519
They really adopted him and loved him him and they

803
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:04.639
still celebrate him even to this day. Yeah, there's people

804
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:06.559
that dress up as him. I love that.

805
00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:08.480
That's say cute.

806
00:53:09.599 --> 00:53:12.199
You know. I actually was aware of Emperor Norton, but

807
00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:14.360
I wasn't aware that he was a real person. So

808
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:17.159
there's a one of my favorite authors is Christopher Moore,

809
00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:20.039
and there's a book called Dirty Jobs, and it takes

810
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:23.760
place in San Francisco, and Emperor Norton shows up as

811
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.000
a character in there. They just call him the Emperor,

812
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:30.519
and it was the stopping he would go around and

813
00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:35.079
do proclamations and whatnot. And I just thought it was

814
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:37.760
a fictional character in Christopher Moore's story. I had no

815
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:42.079
idea it was based on this real character. Now, there's

816
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:44.960
another little story within this story that I'm going to

817
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:50.840
save for our next five minute Friday about two dogs

818
00:53:51.360 --> 00:53:54.840
that were famous in San Francisco at this time, and

819
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:58.320
they were rumored to hang around with Emperor Norton, called

820
00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:01.960
Bummer and Lazarus. Were they in one of the pictures

821
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:05.440
I was actually see pictures there? Yeah, yeah, there. It's

822
00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:08.679
just a little story to dogs that were beloved in

823
00:54:08.760 --> 00:54:12.079
the city, and they showed up in this book by

824
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:14.639
Christopher Moore as well. They were the Emperor's dogs in

825
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:17.880
Christopher Moore's book. Now, if if it was true, if

826
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:20.840
they hung out with him, that's that's debated, but they

827
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:24.159
were definitely dogs. So anyway, I love this story so much.

828
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:27.559
It was very much a feel good story in the end. Yeah,

829
00:54:28.119 --> 00:54:32.239
and it's it's strange to find people with his kind

830
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:36.800
of morals and ethics in that time. So he obviously

831
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:40.400
was suffering from mental illness or just or.

832
00:54:40.559 --> 00:54:42.880
Just any time some book.

833
00:54:43.039 --> 00:54:46.840
Sometimes he wasn't following a movement, he was starting a movement, yes,

834
00:54:47.400 --> 00:54:50.239
of the beginning of a movement really, though there's a

835
00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:55.079
lot of debates about his mental health, right, Obviously he

836
00:54:55.320 --> 00:54:58.840
had some mental health issues. Though there's a There was

837
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:02.079
a whole essay written that I read about. You know,

838
00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:05.360
people will try to say that he had bipolar disorder

839
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:10.599
or was schizophrenic, but this one essay thinks that no,

840
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:15.239
probably not, he didn't. He didn't present with any symptoms

841
00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:21.320
of hallucinations or paranoia. He was very high functioning. The

842
00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:27.199
theory is he went into a deep depression after losing

843
00:55:27.280 --> 00:55:32.400
his fortune, and this was a way to cope with that,

844
00:55:32.920 --> 00:55:38.400
and he created a new identity for himself that could

845
00:55:38.519 --> 00:55:43.880
be respected and cared for without money, without having to

846
00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:47.360
have the wealth to travel in high society, he could

847
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:49.800
get the respect of people without that. You know, whether

848
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.400
or not he started out on a whim doing this

849
00:55:52.599 --> 00:55:55.199
and then was like, well this kind of is fun

850
00:55:56.159 --> 00:55:58.480
and then maybe in the end he believed it. Who knows,

851
00:55:58.599 --> 00:56:02.000
But you know, he didn't arm anybody at all. In fact,

852
00:56:02.039 --> 00:56:05.719
it sounds like he actually helped people. So yeah, I.

853
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:09.159
Don't know, hot take not a doctor, But is it

854
00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:14.320
possible that he was just a very like almost like

855
00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:20.440
a meta theatrical hierarchical writer like SNL and the Onion

856
00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:24.280
did not exist. This just he's like, you, guys, I'm

857
00:56:24.400 --> 00:56:32.880
doing this, Irene. You know, this tasy Yeah yeah, oh

858
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:38.039
my god, yes, yeah.

859
00:56:37.960 --> 00:56:41.239
You know, and Emperor Norton his proclamations, well they were

860
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:46.280
they were very theatrical, but he really did bring up

861
00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:49.440
the issues of the time in them. So yeah, it

862
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:51.760
was like you said, kind of like, you know, like

863
00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:55.760
the onion is satirical but does speak to the issues

864
00:56:55.800 --> 00:56:57.840
of the time. And and yeah, I think that you're

865
00:56:57.880 --> 00:56:59.719
onto something there that it was kind of like that,

866
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:01.920
like ask now, like an onion just maybe not so

867
00:57:02.480 --> 00:57:04.360
you know in your face like it is today.

868
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:08.199
I don't think people were ready for it, right, maybe

869
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:09.920
it goes I'm here.

870
00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:11.199
Yeah.

871
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:14.400
San Francisco was like, we fucking love this guy.

872
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:18.719
It's really heartwarming that the city treated him as kindly

873
00:57:18.760 --> 00:57:20.880
as they did. I mean I thought so too, Like

874
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:23.719
that is sweet, right yeah, and that to this day, right,

875
00:57:23.920 --> 00:57:27.039
and that's progressive for the time too, right, and especially

876
00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:30.360
like San Francisco was a little sand fran right. Yeah,

877
00:57:30.880 --> 00:57:32.840
you know they're they're a little progressive in the in

878
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:36.320
the human rights. Uh yeah, yeah, in some ways. And

879
00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.559
you know, it was a rough place at the time.

880
00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:42.280
I mean the gold Rush brought in the gold Yush,

881
00:57:42.679 --> 00:57:44.880
and it was there was you know, it was kind

882
00:57:44.920 --> 00:57:46.840
of lawless for a while. They had to be like, oh,

883
00:57:46.880 --> 00:57:52.039
we need some loss, right, oh shit, But you know,

884
00:57:52.159 --> 00:57:54.519
it's it's amazing that they found that compassion, and maybe

885
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.159
part of that was from it being a bit of

886
00:57:57.199 --> 00:58:00.719
a melting pot. While they didn't treat immigrants super great

887
00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:02.599
all the time, you know, it is nice to see

888
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:04.480
that at least they treated him well when in a

889
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:07.639
time when people with mental illness were treated pretty horribly

890
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:10.280
a lot of the time to literally torture.

891
00:58:11.599 --> 00:58:14.400
But at least we've learned from all of that, right,

892
00:58:14.480 --> 00:58:17.280
because we would never treat people with mental illness or

893
00:58:17.400 --> 00:58:19.320
people that were immigrants, or.

894
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:20.719
We don't do that anymore like that.

895
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:23.400
We wouldn't do that anymore.

896
00:58:23.559 --> 00:58:27.440
Look at us manifesting, you know. And it's it's not

897
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:31.239
like this country would bring back torturing children to torture

898
00:58:31.280 --> 00:58:32.880
the gay away from them, right.

899
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:34.440
Yeah.

900
00:58:34.639 --> 00:58:39.119
Boy, that's pack people conversion therapies. You know, it's always worked.

901
00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:43.440
I think it works great. All right, guys. Well, I

902
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:46.679
appreciate you being here with us to go on this

903
00:58:47.119 --> 00:58:50.960
rabbit holes again. So much fun. It was, Thank you,

904
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:53.480
It was so great you guys the other weekend. Thanks

905
00:58:53.519 --> 00:58:56.559
for hanging out tonight. All right, well, thanks again to

906
00:58:56.639 --> 00:59:00.639
the ladies from PNW Haunts and Homicides. Go out find

907
00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:03.480
PNW hauntsond Homicides dot com. You can find links there

908
00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:07.039
to where you can listen and more. Follow them, listen

909
00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:09.840
and you'll get more great content from them. All right, guys,

910
00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:16.840
we love you. We will see you later day spooky

911
00:59:17.119 --> 00:59:19.679
bitches or is that your that's I'm stealing your thunder?

912
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:23.280
We say, have a creepy ass day? Do you want

913
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:27.360
us just there? You go? Okay, have a creepy ass day.

914
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:30.679
You've been listening to Rainy Day Rabbit Holes. We thought

915
00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:33.559
maybe you had forgotten? How could you forget? We are

916
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:36.519
your hosts, Shay and Jody, and you can find all

917
00:59:36.679 --> 00:59:41.679
things on our website, randydayrabbit Holes dot com like sources, notes, pictures, links, whatnot.

918
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:44.679
That beautiful website is designed and managed by the amazing

919
00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:48.519
and talented Letha Davis at Easybreezy dot com. That's easy

920
00:59:48.599 --> 00:59:51.960
brute e a s y b r z y dot com.

921
00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:55.119
All episodes are edited and produced by me Shaye and

922
00:59:55.199 --> 00:59:57.199
you can reach out with any questions or comments at

923
00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.519
Shae at Rainyday Rabbit Holes dot com. That's s A. T.

924
00:59:59.559 --> 01:00:01.840
E A. Thanks for listening. Please share the podcast with

925
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:04.960
your friends and family, and stay curious. See you down

926
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:05.800
the rabbit hole.