Feb. 5, 2026

What Lies Beneath the Oregon Zoo

What Lies Beneath the Oregon Zoo
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The Oregon Zoo might seem like an unlikely setting for true crime and paranormal history, but beneath its family friendly surface lies a past with some unsettling chapters. In 2013, construction crews working on a new elephant habitat unearthed human remains. These undocumented burials trace back to Hillside Farm — a poor farm and sanatorium for the mentally ill and those with infectious diseases. The identities of those found remain unknown, their presence lingering as a quiet reminder of Portland’s forgotten dead.

The episode also explores two modern tragedies that unfolded at the zoo. In 1970, a late night break-in led to the death of 19-year-old Roger Adams after he fell into a lion enclosure, followed by the controversial shooting of the lions involved. Decades later, in 2019, concertgoer Carl Stanley Ross Sr. was found dead in an uninhabited rhino exhibit days after being reported missing. Though investigators found no evidence of foul play, a lawsuit and court ruling concluded that negligence on both sides contributed to his death. Together, these stories reveal the Oregon Zoo as a place where history, tragedy, and unanswered questions quietly coexist, long after the crowds have gone home.

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It was one hundred and sixty acre poor farm and

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sanatorium for the mentally ill in those with infectious diseases.

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There were at least three cemeteries on the farm, but

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no records of who was laid to rest or where

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any of the burial plots were located. Oh good lord. Yeah,

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so I think pretty much the majority of the people

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buried there were people that were unclaimed by their family, right,

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probably most of the people that were living there.

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Yeah. Wow, I wonder why it would be haunted.

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Hi Caitlin, Hi Cassie. Hi, creepy people. Helly. This is

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p ANDW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime,

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the paranormal, in all things creepy and spooky and scary

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in the Pacific Northwest or the PNW. If you're nasty,

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if you're nice, we're the nastiest. We also do a.

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Little tarot reading at the end of every episode for

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a little bit of deeper insight into our topic. I

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don't think that we'll need any for this one. It

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is oh dark thirty here, and I'm a little bit

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concerned about what recording one of Cassie's episodes this close

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to bedtime is going to do to me. I guess

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we're all gonna find out together.

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Yeah, I have a really really spooky one for you today.

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Oh great tonight.

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How many feet should I have up in my chair?

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Hmmm? Well, I'm gonna start off by telling you about

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my little trip to the zoo Exo, so you get

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a little palette cleanser before we start.

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I feel like the palette cleanser is really more needed after,

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but I'm going to let that go.

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Well, we have to start with it, so sorry, it's

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my episode, my rule.

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Fine.

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So I went to the zoo the other day. It

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was Tula two, the elephant's first birthday. She's just a

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little thing. I mean, she's kind of big mouth compared

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to the bigger elephants. She's so tiny. She's so cute

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and little. And it was her birthday and they had

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special elephant ears with sprinkles and chocolate and caramel drizzle.

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I know you don't like the chocolate, but they had

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a caramel drizzle. Yeah, and then we all sang her

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Happy Birthday. It was the cutest fucking thing ever.

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Honestly, I love that for her.

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I know, it was so sweet, like she was out

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there and like everyone was well, I couldn't really see because,

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fun fact, I was in a motorized scooter. Yeah, because

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I live in the life may or may not have

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broken my ankle. It's fine, but it was kind of

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fun rolling around the zoo with an electric scooter. I'm

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not gonna lie.

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I mean, do you even need ankles?

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Like I mean, I always joke out ankles, and I'm like,

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oh my god, now I actually have a cankle. So

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it was so swollen.

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Yeah, the swelling and at like you've sent us a

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couple of photos as you've been progressing through.

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This and dump dates. Yeah, wowsers. She was angry. Oh yeah,

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now she's all bruised. She's real purple all over my foot.

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But we're getting better. It's fine, It's fine, Okay, Okay,

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I'm not just jibber jabbering about what I've been up

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to lately, even though I like to talk about myself.

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I'm man who doesn't. But the Oregon Zoo is actually

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our topic for today.

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I knew it as soon as you brought up the

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baby elephant and You're like, I have to talk about

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this first.

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That was like the zoo is haunted, isn't it. I mean,

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we'll be the judge of that. You guys can be

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the judge of that after I tell you what's up

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with the zoo. So you might not think the zoo

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to be a very spooky place. I don't know, but

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I can pretty much find out creepy shit about anything.

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So here we go. Yeah, put your powers to good.

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Use my spooky powers. So, speaking of the elephants, in

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twenty thirteen, as construction had just gotten underway for the

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new elephant exhibit, they dug up a human skull.

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I'm sorry, what's this now?

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They dug up a human skull, and they immediately stopped

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and called an archaeologist, who proceeded to uncover the remains

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of nine people.

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Ah, that's too many.

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I didn't know this either when I did my research after,

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so I didn't know any of this going in, or

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I would have, you know, looked at the elephant exhibit

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a little bit differently, probably, I should say.

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So.

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They were found to be of Western European descent, So

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we're not talking about like a Native American beer, which

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everyone you know, like, yeah talk about.

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Yeah, it's a bit of a trope in movies and whatnot,

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which is kind of sad.

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I know, but we're not going there today. Yeah, because boo.

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But this wasn't even the first time remains were found

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in the area, like at the zoo or just in

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like in the area like the Washington Park area.

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Okay, well that we know to be true.

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Well, okay, I'll tell you more about it. It's not

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like murderers or anything like that. But there are so

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who are these people? Who are these remains? While they

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have never been able to be identified, the history of

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the property is a huge clue as to who they

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are and why people would be buried there. In eighteen

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fifty four, Oregon law made local governments responsible for providing

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care and shelter for their poorest residents. They called them

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poor farms. Nice. I don't know that. I love that.

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I'm gonna be honest with you. It was a nice thought.

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It's not my favorite.

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The area that is now Washington Park, which is now

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home to the Oregon Zoo, the International Rose Test Garden,

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Japanese Garden, Waite Arboreta, the World Forestry Center, all that

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stuff is there. Lochi Da It was one hundred and

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sixty acre poor farm and sanatorium for the mentally ill

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in those with infectious diseases. Hillside Farm had hundreds of

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residents from eighteen sixty eight to nineteen eleven, and after

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which it was moved to Edgefield, Yeah, which is now

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a Mcminnimum's great And that was due to Portlander's concern

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about the city's image and reputation because they started to

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get bougie. But of course, well you know.

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What they did with all of those unwell people. They

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would have all of those polite euphemisms, you know, for

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all of those people, and then of course all of

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your histical women.

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Yes, yeah, you got to hide them somewhere. Seriously, did

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get them out of town? Man, they can't be they

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can't be in Portland.

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No, hide them away from polite society.

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I'm pretty sure they put a golf course in afterwards too,

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like before the zoo. So interesting, like let's replace the

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poor farm with a golf course like a country club.

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Seriously tell me that you're just gentrifying and being problematic

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without telling me.

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Yeah, the residents stayed there, getting food and medical care

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in exchange for labor on the farm, the hope being

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that they could learn to be self sufficient and eventually

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move up in society. Although life on the farm was

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far from perfect. As you can imagine, it was pretty

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similar to places like asylums with unsanitary living conditions and

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possibly questionable care.

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But yeah, who could have seen that coming.

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Yeah.

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Also, I will say I think that it's good for

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people to be given a sense of purpose, and I

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think sometimes there are ways that programs can be put

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in place so that they're not exploitative. But for people

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to have to work the farm, to live there, and

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to receive care, to me, I don't know. I have

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to imagine, given the time, it was probably on the

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side of being exploitative. I have a feeling that's what

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you're gonna tell me.

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I don't. I don't know much more information about it,

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to be honest, that's kind of all I know.

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Okay, so we'll just operate under my assumption. Then.

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Yeah, from what I read, it was like the thought

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was good. It was providing people place to live, work,

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and probably progressive for its time.

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But through a modern lens, it kind of gives maybe

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a little bit of ick.

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Yeah, and I mean they're not around anymore, so there's

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a reason for that. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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There were at least three cemeteries on the farm, but

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no records of who was laid to rest or where

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any of the burial plots were located. Oh good lord. Yeah,

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so I think pretty much the majority of the people

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buried there were people that were unclaimed by their family, right,

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probably most of the people that were living there. Yeah.

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Wow, I wonder why it would be haunted spoiler alert.

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I have no stories of actual hauntings. Wha. I know

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I kind of tricked you a little bit in the beginning.

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But honestly, I believe it and I know that, like,

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I have this information now, so maybe I'm viewing things

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like differently, but I don't know. I've always felt a

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little bit weird at the zoo ooh, and I don't

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who knows. Maybe that's there's any other reasons for that too.

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Oh cool, But I would be interested to know, like

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if anyone has had experiences at the zoo, if anyone

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who works there regularly has any you know, paranormal experiences.

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But I couldn't find any on the internet. That is wild.

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I'm gonna I'm gonna comb all of the resources and

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see if we can connect with somebody at the zoo.

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Tell us your stories, please, We want to know the

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uncovered remains were said to be buried in the same

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spot with a memorial to preserve the land's history. So

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they did dig them up and then they reburied them

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in the same area, So I guess they're still under

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the elephant. I don't know if they buried them like

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more off to the side of the elephant enclosure or

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actually where they found them. Okay, I wasn't able to

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dig up any information on that. I did.

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I see what you did there.

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I was really like searching like for the memorials to

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see if there is any plaques. And like I said,

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it was before or I did the research after I

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had gone to the zoo. So yeah, next time I

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go to the zoo, I can like kind of look

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around the elephant enclosure for a plaque and maybe ask

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one of the They always have volunteers around that know things. Yeah,

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I would be so curious.

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But again, just doing all of the things that I

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feel like it's like a recipe for haunting. Like by

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the book, they followed the measurements, they understood the assignment

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and all of the instructions, and it makes sense to me,

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or maybe they did.

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Just handle it really respectfully and the ghosts have no

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reason to hang around.

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I don't know, yeah, because that is so frequently I

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feel what we hear.

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Well. Heidi Ron, who was the director of the Better

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Zoo program at the time and was elected Zoo director

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in twenty twenty one, she said, I think the most

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important thing for us was treating the remains with respect.

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I'm going to agree, Heidi, for the next decade. Actually, yeah,

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just consider it a standing nomination any office, the highest

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in the land, if you please.

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Right, Heidi, you want to run for press, let's go,

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just saying respect man. Respect. But there are a couple

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of more recent deaths that unfortunately took place at the

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Oregon Zoo. Oh No, fourth of July nineteen seventy, which

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is more recent than I was early nineteen hundreds that

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we were just talking about.

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Yeah, hey, listen, you know what, I'm the one that's

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good with the dates. So I'm with you.

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Thank you, thank you. So fourth of July nineteen seventy,

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Ken Bowers twenty one and Roger Adams nineteen, along with

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another friend, were out on the town doing what young

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men do on a summer holiday night, drinking and looking

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for shenanigans. Oh boy, some questionable choices were made. Okay,

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they broke into the zoo after hours, not off to

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a great start, but they didn't want to simply just

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look into the animal habitats. Oh no. Roger in particular

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wanted a thrill. Oh great, so he dangled himself into

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the grizzly bear enclosure. Oh my god, like just drunken dangling.

232
00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:02.480
I just don't do it. Don't dangle.

233
00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:07.879
I mean, Roger, Roger, if you're gonna dangle, like, maybe

234
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:13.000
maybe we consider something like cute and fluffy, Like is

235
00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:17.159
there a chinchilla exhibit could perhaps.

236
00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:20.360
Go mingle with the penguins. I don't know.

237
00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:24.200
Perhaps those critters are more aggressive than I'm aware of,

238
00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:26.360
but I'm just saying they.

239
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.480
Also hang out with the bats, to be honest with you.

240
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:34.480
Now, see that's where you lose me, because yeah, just

241
00:14:34.679 --> 00:14:35.519
I don't know about that.

242
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:38.000
The bats are my favorite. I love to go in

243
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.279
there and just they stink, but oh my gosh, I

244
00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:42.480
just love them so much.

245
00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:48.399
Cool to watch, But I'm very afraid of Like, well,

246
00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.240
you know, we've all been programmed.

247
00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:53.879
We're supposed to be afraid of the bats, right, I don't.

248
00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.120
I'm not really afraid of them in that scenario, just

249
00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.799
because it's you know, it's an incline and I cannot and.

250
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:04.120
You're not dangling it. Yeah.

251
00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.279
Yeah, I feel like that's really key, just in case

252
00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:09.840
anybody wanted us to really drive that home.

253
00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:16.200
Here we are dangling by it. Okay. So, after successfully

254
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.039
pulling himself back up out of the grizzly bear enclosure, yay,

255
00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:26.039
what he decided to chase more adrenaline. He was not

256
00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.799
done for the night. For fuck's sake, he thought it

257
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:35.159
was a lot more thrilling to dangle himself into the

258
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:36.279
lion enclosure.

259
00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:39.519
Yep, of course he did. Of course he did. Roger,

260
00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:43.639
this is why we can't have nice things. Okay, yeah, yeah,

261
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:47.399
Oh my god, okay, I already listen. Here's the thing.

262
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.919
I already didn't let myself get emotionally attached to Roger

263
00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:53.919
because you said the thing about the grizzly bears.

264
00:15:54.559 --> 00:16:01.840
But like, oh god, you maybe you maybe shouldn't shouldn't

265
00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:07.080
get attached, Oh god. Yeah. Okay, So let's keep moving

266
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:09.279
because this is kind of it gets kind of it

267
00:16:09.279 --> 00:16:13.799
gets kind of hard here, okay. Okay, So as you

268
00:16:13.799 --> 00:16:17.320
can maybe imagine dangling himself in front of the lions

269
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:21.840
didn't go as planned. It was not like the grizzly bears.

270
00:16:22.519 --> 00:16:26.200
One of them started swatting at his feet, causing Roger

271
00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.919
to lose his grip and fall into the enclosure. Caesar

272
00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:36.039
and Siss. The lions did what wild animals do, and

273
00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:37.639
they attacked Roger.

274
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.679
Okay, I really again cannot state this strongly enough. I

275
00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:45.960
don't love that for Roger. It sounds like a really

276
00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:46.639
bad time.

277
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:52.879
It wasn't good. His friends watched in horror, and Bowers

278
00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:57.399
remembers hearing help me, Kinney. Oh I'm sure he was

279
00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:02.000
screaming it, but I yeah. They desperately tried to scare

280
00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:04.359
the lions away, but there was nothing they could do,

281
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:11.000
and Roger bled out from his injuries. Fuck, that is horrific,

282
00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:16.400
I know. Wow, the tragedy didn't in there. An unknown

283
00:17:16.400 --> 00:17:20.319
gunman entered the zoo the next morning, fatally shooting both

284
00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:21.240
of the lions.

285
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:27.359
Okay, well, hey, I don't care for that either. That's

286
00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:28.759
kind of a dick move. I know.

287
00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:35.119
Are in this they were saying they were twin lions.

288
00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:36.799
I don't know if they're actually no, because they were

289
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.359
different ages. They were just calling them the twins.

290
00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:43.519
But they're like a bonded pair, which like kind of

291
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:48.200
the same. They were twin flames, y'all in the animal world.

292
00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:54.440
Yeah, Roger's family was harassed by distraught animal lovers after that,

293
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:59.039
saying that Roger deserved what happened to him. Okay, well

294
00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.880
that's pretty achy to say. I know, it's really gross.

295
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:08.880
Some bad decisions were made, but nobody deserves that. Come on, yeah,

296
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:12.119
why would you say that to his grieving family, even.

297
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:20.920
Even if you're, oh, god, we're so gross. Roger's father's

298
00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.759
response was, I don't blame the lions, but what I

299
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.160
don't understand is how some people can have so much

300
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.680
compassion for animals and then turn right around and crucify

301
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:31.599
human beings.

302
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.319
I mean, I'm having a hard time coming up with

303
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.880
truer words, my friend.

304
00:18:38.599 --> 00:18:43.319
I know. Oh, they were blaming Roger for like the

305
00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.680
lions getting shot. Some people actually thought the family did

306
00:18:46.759 --> 00:18:49.200
it had something to do with the shooting.

307
00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.079
See, And that's really unfair too, you know.

308
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.240
I know, I feel like we just we come into

309
00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:59.079
that a lot with like any of the check crime stories,

310
00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:01.480
where the family just whether they had something to do

311
00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.920
with it or not, they get harassed and blamed.

312
00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:08.599
And oh yes, no, I mean there's people going after

313
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.880
everybody involved in a case that receives like any amount

314
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:14.400
of attention.

315
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:15.079
It is.

316
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.039
I feel like in a lot of my research, that's

317
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:24.680
been one of the hardest things to learn and read

318
00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.720
about is how awful people can be in a situation

319
00:19:28.960 --> 00:19:32.880
that is just like, what are you doing? You're just

320
00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:38.960
like harassing these people and for what for what? Yeah,

321
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:40.480
what's that going to get you? You're not going to

322
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.880
get like, you're not going to arrest them. You can't

323
00:19:44.359 --> 00:19:48.200
be a witness and core like and and in a

324
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.359
situation where they're just like truly innocent in the situation.

325
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.200
But even if they weren't, like, there's just some things

326
00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.839
that like, I'm just humans are the most dangerous.

327
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:07.200
Let's yeah, I forget these lions. Yeah full stop. Okay,

328
00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.119
So now I couldn't. I couldn't super confirm this. I

329
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.039
found it in one article and then I like couldn't.

330
00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.039
There was not a lot of info about any of this,

331
00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.400
you guys, So I don't know, Caitlin, if you want

332
00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:23.160
to dig later be my guest. Oh boy, But about

333
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.039
three years later, Ken Bowers apparently confessed to the shooting

334
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.960
of the two lions and was fined twelve hundred dollars.

335
00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:35.880
Oh yeah, I feel like maybe that kind of tracks.

336
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:38.839
They did have quotes from him in this article, so

337
00:20:38.920 --> 00:20:41.640
I like kind of assume it's true.

338
00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:47.519
But I mean, it's either true or it's you know,

339
00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:50.759
a suable offense.

340
00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.039
Yeah, but they said so. They said he was caught

341
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:58.920
on drug charges or something else. And then when he

342
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:03.440
confessed to that, they they dropped the They didn't like

343
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:06.039
charge him with the killing of the lions. They just

344
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.480
find him for the price of the lions.

345
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:13.440
Oh sure, okay.

346
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:17.000
Tiger's earlier did I if I said at any point,

347
00:21:17.519 --> 00:21:20.200
don't I don't. I feel like I would have flagged that.

348
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:22.960
Okay, I feel like I would have flagged that because

349
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:26.839
whenever you say lion. So this is like kind of

350
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.279
a fun thing. Is like a lot of words in

351
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.400
my brain when I hear them, when I think them,

352
00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.960
when I say them, Like there's like mental pictures And

353
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.599
I was listening to podcasts where they were talking about

354
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:46.599
like there's somebody that was talking about their experience and

355
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:48.039
I forget what the like.

356
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.119
They call it a disorder.

357
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:55.440
Where you can't visualize, like you can't like visualize you

358
00:21:55.480 --> 00:22:00.400
can't summon like visual images in your own mind. I'm

359
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:04.079
very much the opposite. They come unbidden. And if you

360
00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.960
had said tiger, I think I would have been like,

361
00:22:07.400 --> 00:22:09.920
I'm picturing stripes now and now I'm confused.

362
00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:11.279
Right.

363
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:14.640
Yeah. All of that is to say I think you

364
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:15.440
nailing it.

365
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.559
Absolutely, I hope. So wait, I'm gonna go like check

366
00:22:19.680 --> 00:22:22.119
my I'm like, wait, it was a lion, right, and

367
00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:32.240
not a tiger. Lions If they're a lions, yeah, I have.

368
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:36.640
To read all again and say insert tiger, or I've

369
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:40.839
to dub myself saying tiger tiger, yeah, which.

370
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.480
Is kind of interesting. So when we went to the zoo,

371
00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:46.599
I went with a couple other people who just had

372
00:22:46.599 --> 00:22:48.640
to keep going, and I was with my mom, so

373
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.319
we like hung out and sang Happy Birthday to the elephant.

374
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:54.319
But so the other people I was with kept going

375
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.599
and they went to the lion cage now, which it

376
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.920
has a lot of glass, and they like yummy snacks.

377
00:23:01.960 --> 00:23:04.519
They like smeared it on the glass. So the lions

378
00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:07.599
were like licking and jumping. I should I should use

379
00:23:07.640 --> 00:23:09.400
one of those for the for a video for this

380
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:13.200
like post. You could see like the size of the

381
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:17.200
fucking pause or just in like imagine that whacking at

382
00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.799
you and like, yeah, smuling you to death. I mean, don't, no,

383
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:23.440
I don't. I refuse.

384
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.720
Actually, that just makes me think of the video of

385
00:23:28.839 --> 00:23:32.119
the Wiener dog that chased after lions.

386
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:34.000
Is it real or is that AI?

387
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:35.160
No?

388
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.519
This is like it's a pretty old video.

389
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:42.599
It was definitely before like AI was good enough to

390
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:46.519
generate something like that for sure. Okay, So I mean,

391
00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:51.279
if it's fake, somebody spent like an inordinate amount of

392
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:54.559
time and or money to produce that clip.

393
00:23:54.759 --> 00:24:04.960
So I trust no videos anymore. You're really can't. Okay,

394
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:10.000
moving on, We're gonna go to a more really recent one.

395
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:16.640
In twenty nineteen, Carl Stanley Ross Senior sixty two attended

396
00:24:16.680 --> 00:24:20.839
a summer concert at the Oregon Zoo George Clinton and

397
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:25.559
Parliament Funkadelic. I don't know who either of those people are.

398
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:32.000
Sorry, I'm not super familiar with their catalog either, but

399
00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:34.960
it sounds funkadelic.

400
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:38.400
But p yeah, Parliament Funkadelic. I think they're two different.

401
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.759
I think George Clinton is a person and then Parliament

402
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:43.359
Funkadelic is like a band.

403
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:51.480
Maybe yeah, it's giving funk adel yeah, if anyone knows

404
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:54.680
who they are, let me know, because I didn't google it.

405
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.839
A friend reported him missing to Zoosieecurity at the end

406
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:04.559
of the night. Two days later, he was found deceased

407
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:09.240
in the empty rhino exhibit. So there was no animals

408
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:13.039
in it. It was under construction at the time. Interesting,

409
00:25:13.240 --> 00:25:16.400
So the rhinos didn't do it? Okay, you guys, yes,

410
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.680
please leave.

411
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:19.759
The rhinos alone.

412
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:25.279
There's the horny. The Oregon Zoo said the construction site

413
00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:30.559
wasn't accessible, surrounded by fencing and pedestrian barriers. Well, they

414
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:35.079
didn't know exactly what happened. Investigators didn't find any evidence

415
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.200
of foul play. Interesting. Ross Seniors thought to have had

416
00:25:38.240 --> 00:25:44.519
some pre existing conditions, heart issues and early signs of dementia.

417
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:49.440
Oh no, so he might have wandered.

418
00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:53.279
So those could have been a factor. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

419
00:25:54.359 --> 00:25:57.920
Ross Senior's family hired a private investigator and filed a

420
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.200
lawsuit against the zoo. I mean they did not notify

421
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.720
all staff or lock down the zoo to try to

422
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:04.839
find the missing person.

423
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:08.359
Yeah, I think that's pretty important.

424
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.640
I guess there was no record of like the missing

425
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:16.039
person's report to the zoo. There was only a record

426
00:26:16.200 --> 00:26:18.960
of his family calling the police the next morning and

427
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:21.599
then they said there was no indication he was still

428
00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:24.279
going to be at the zoo, So I think there

429
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:27.160
was just a lot of confusion unfortunately.

430
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:31.559
Yeah, that's tough. I mean you're talking about an adult man.

431
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:36.599
So I would assume that, like, depending on the person,

432
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.200
maybe there are going to be some people that assume, like, oh,

433
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:41.720
he just.

434
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:43.599
Took off or whatever.

435
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:47.559
Yeah, but like when he's not, nobody knows where he is,

436
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:53.680
like the next morning, that's like missing person worthy in

437
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:54.279
their eyes.

438
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.799
I don't, you know, it's so hard to know.

439
00:26:57.880 --> 00:27:00.839
And you know, I don't know, that's tough because yeah,

440
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:03.119
adults can, you know, they can come and go as

441
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:06.599
they please. I would assume if they if the zoo

442
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.279
had been made aware of a child that had been

443
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:14.160
you know, somebody could not find their child, Yeah, they

444
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.880
probably would have handled that a little bit differently, regardless

445
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:20.640
of whether or not the parents had filed a missing

446
00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:21.599
persons report.

447
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:23.359
But I mean.

448
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.799
As a story asult's time, they always treat adults a

449
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:31.440
little bit differently, and who knows. Like the friend, I

450
00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:35.559
have no idea how serious it sounded like. He could

451
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:39.319
have just been like complaining like, hey, I can't find

452
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:41.720
my friend, like you know what I mean. Yeah, maybe

453
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:44.680
they just didn't think it was It's so hard to

454
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:48.799
say without more details, it's hard to know, but I mean,

455
00:27:48.839 --> 00:27:51.480
the fact that they're filing a lawsuit tells me that,

456
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:55.559
you know, there might be something there. Generally, it's hard

457
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:57.480
to get a lawyer to take your case if it's

458
00:27:57.680 --> 00:27:59.240
completely baseless.

459
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.839
They also accused them of not securing the construction area properly,

460
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:06.799
even though the zoo said it was secure.

461
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.200
Yeah, that's kind of the biggest concern because they're saying

462
00:28:10.279 --> 00:28:14.519
it's secure, and of course the construction site that like

463
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.240
that can certainly be tricky. You know, I've visited a

464
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.519
lot of job sites and that that can be tricky,

465
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.839
especially in an environment like that was so many people.

466
00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:28.440
But clearly it wasn't as secure as they thought.

467
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.720
The family kind of thought like, well, you should have

468
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.160
security guards kind of like you know, around the border

469
00:28:36.279 --> 00:28:38.839
of the place if that many people are going to

470
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.960
be there. They said it wasn't really accessible by the people.

471
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:46.920
So he's somehow gotten though. So, yeah, clearly there was

472
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:48.319
an inn.

473
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:55.240
Given that it's an uninhabited enclosure under construction. I feel

474
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:58.359
like it makes it pretty hard to say, oh, you

475
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:01.039
should have security over there, because it's like, well, what

476
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:04.880
are you other than just like somebody getting in there

477
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:09.799
and maybe, you know, whatever dangers are inherent in that

478
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:14.119
from the construction. You know, they're not going to be

479
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.960
attacked by an animal because there are no animals, so that,

480
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:22.359
I don't know. I have a hard time thinking that

481
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.359
the zoo would be able to justify that it's expensive.

482
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:29.720
Yeah, and they had security for the concert, so it's

483
00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:34.319
not like they're a security list right right exactly, Like

484
00:29:34.359 --> 00:29:36.240
what else are you supposed to do? I don't I

485
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.359
don't know unless something was like left open or you know,

486
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:42.480
but there was no cameras in the area.

487
00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:48.119
Yeah, having a dedicated team for an uninhabited enclosure feels

488
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:50.440
like that might be a big ask.

489
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:57.599
Like the fencing, the barriers, the signage should be enough. Yeah.

490
00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:00.359
The zoo says, our hearts go out to the family

491
00:30:00.400 --> 00:30:03.920
and loved ones of Carl Ross Senior. They have experienced

492
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.799
a tremendous loss and it is understandable that they want

493
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:09.200
to know what happened. We are continuing to look for

494
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:11.960
answers as well. So I mean, I'm sure they didn't.

495
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:16.799
They didn't love this, you know, like this sucks, not

496
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:20.359
just that they're getting sued, like right, I don't know.

497
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.200
I think they really do feel for the family.

498
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:28.359
Yeah, I mean that's tough. I'm sure they're not happy

499
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:31.400
about it for a lot of reasons. It's that's that's rough.

500
00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:37.680
Zoo attorneys argued that Ross Senior died from alcoholism, which

501
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.920
caused a fall. Okay, the court actually found the Zoo

502
00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:46.200
to be thirty seven point five percent at fault and

503
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:50.240
Ross Senior sixty two point five percent at fault, which

504
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:52.720
I didn't know that they did that kind of percentage

505
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:54.599
thing in the courts.

506
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:59.480
Yes, like in a criminal case, that's not really how

507
00:30:59.519 --> 00:30:59.960
it works.

508
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:02.680
But in a civil case like this where there's the.

509
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:07.519
Potential for a payout, yes, you will see sometimes and

510
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.240
it happens a lot like in auto accidents specifically.

511
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.319
Oh that makes sense. Yeah, I thought that was like

512
00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:23.119
really interesting, like very specific thirty seven point five yeah, crazy, it's.

513
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:27.640
Really interesting too. There are states and I can't remember

514
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.000
if it's North Carolina or South Carolina, but they have

515
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:37.880
very specific rules about like the findings regarding percentage of fault,

516
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:43.680
and it's their laws make it really really difficult for

517
00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:50.119
anyone seeking damages from like a personal injury or so.

518
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.720
I actually just I came across.

519
00:31:55.160 --> 00:31:58.680
I can't I think it was an article. It might

520
00:31:58.680 --> 00:32:02.599
have been a podcast. I listened, who knows, I absorbed

521
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.200
like these random factoids, but yeah, it was. It was

522
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:09.160
really interesting to hear them talk to people that like

523
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:15.480
have sustained really serious injuries and because like the percentage

524
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:20.000
of fault isn't like majority.

525
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.119
One way or the other.

526
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.960
It's like, oh, yeah, I don't know, it's it was.

527
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:26.359
It was hard to listen to because people that like

528
00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:31.599
they're truly like their mobility, their livelihood, everything is impacted.

529
00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:35.000
And like the way that their state's laws like work,

530
00:32:36.160 --> 00:32:39.079
it just makes it next to impossible for you to

531
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:45.960
like get anything for pain and suffering. It's, yeah, be

532
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.799
thankful that hopefully most I think they said the vast

533
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:54.039
majority of states don't work that way. But we're looking

534
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:59.839
at you. One of the Carolinas bombastics.

535
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:05.359
I die. So they did rule that both parties negligence

536
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:09.480
contributed to his death, but there was no payout because

537
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:18.359
his percentage of fault was higher. Yeah. Carl Ross Junior says,

538
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.720
my father was a kind and giving man who always

539
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:27.839
put family and others first. That's so hard, I know.

540
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:32.759
I mean, like it was just an accident. Like, yeah,

541
00:33:33.240 --> 00:33:36.119
that's so hard. I mean.

542
00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.839
And that's the thing about our legal system is that

543
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:42.079
so often some of these things just boiled down to

544
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:48.119
like there's not going to be a satisfying conclusion or

545
00:33:49.720 --> 00:33:53.960
you know, like there is no justice in that situation, right,

546
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:57.319
because it's like, what do you even do? Like it's just,

547
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:01.680
like you said, it's an awful accident. I feel really

548
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:03.240
bad for his family.

549
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:07.759
I know I do too, And the same with Roger too.

550
00:34:07.839 --> 00:34:09.960
I mean, he was a nineteen year old kid. I

551
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:13.400
know he dangled himself in the I think he was

552
00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:16.280
probably one hundred percent of fault for that, for breaking

553
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:19.440
into the zoo. And yeah, but that doesn't make it

554
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.079
any less sad, And that doesn't mean that he deserved

555
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.519
to die.

556
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:30.239
No, and who has not fallen prey to the folly

557
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:31.639
of youth, you know.

558
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:34.320
Curiously, boys, boys will be boys?

559
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.039
Oh my god, that was like peak boys will be

560
00:34:38.119 --> 00:34:43.320
boys era too. I feel like, but I think you know,

561
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:46.719
some of that regardless of gender or anything like any

562
00:34:46.760 --> 00:34:47.800
of the other factors.

563
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:49.639
It's like it's just youth.

564
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.719
I mean, that's I cannot picture myself doing that personally.

565
00:34:55.280 --> 00:35:00.880
Can I picture probably multiple people that I know personally

566
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.360
having done that at some point given the right combination

567
00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:08.519
of youth and liquid courage? Maybe?

568
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.519
Yikes?

569
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:14.480
I mean you hate to think about that happening to anyone, though.

570
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:18.760
Yeah, but people do all kinds of freaking things for

571
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:20.760
you know, adrenaline rush, like.

572
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:24.159
Shits and giggles, and it's only gotten worse with social media.

573
00:35:24.280 --> 00:35:28.639
I feel like, can you imagine if his like friends

574
00:35:28.639 --> 00:35:30.039
had been live streaming that?

575
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:33.199
Dude?

576
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:40.039
Yeah, devastating. It's horrific enough, but that's crazy. I know,

577
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:43.360
it's wild to think about, Like so many things that

578
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:45.760
like have happened in the past. You're like, what would

579
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.800
this have been like in the era of social media?

580
00:35:50.760 --> 00:35:56.360
Truly nightmare fuel? Yeah, okay, on no one, I'm saying

581
00:35:56.360 --> 00:35:58.480
this right now though, No one go do that and

582
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:04.159
live stream please God. No, for the love of the lions, yes,

583
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:12.639
don't do it, for the love of all things holy. Well,

584
00:36:13.599 --> 00:36:15.719
that's my story about the zoo. Like I said, I

585
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:21.840
didn't find any like personal Reddit stories from hauntings at

586
00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:23.119
the zoo. I don't know.

587
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:27.039
Maybe I'm struggling to wrap my head around that property

588
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:31.840
not being haunted, and maybe maybe everybody else is just

589
00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:35.360
so overstimulated when they visit the zoo.

590
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.880
Maybe there is. I mean I would expect it to

591
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.320
be from like people who are there after hours, like

592
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:49.800
yeahs or keepers or yes, yeah, definitely like the staff.

593
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:53.079
I feel like that's your best shot for really getting

594
00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:57.639
some good stories about hauntings.

595
00:36:58.199 --> 00:37:01.280
And like a lot of people, people don't talk about

596
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:05.519
their paranormal experiences, and the most that we when we

597
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:07.719
hear them, while we're hearing about things that are like

598
00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:11.440
obviously going to be haunted, like spooky old places and

599
00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:13.760
things like that, like the zoo, isn't really something you'd

600
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.119
think about, No, not at all when you think about haunting.

601
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.159
So I think it's going to be pretty rare to

602
00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:23.760
find people actually talking about it unless they email us

603
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.719
Pinabe hoatsa Homicides at gmail dot com. Please do it.

604
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:31.239
I don't care if there are no stories that we

605
00:37:31.280 --> 00:37:38.920
could find online. That is a lot of spooky dissw.

606
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:41.840
I brought my mushroom Oracle deck today because I was like, well,

607
00:37:41.840 --> 00:37:44.000
I don't have like a zoo themed deck.

608
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:48.920
Oh, I wonder if there's a zoo that has its

609
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.079
own tarot deck.

610
00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:55.480
They definitely have like decks of cards. Yeah, I should

611
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:59.360
have bought one, but that's my next mission. But I figured,

612
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.760
you know, mushrooms digging up stuff kind of fit. I

613
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:04.559
feel like that.

614
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.360
Really, I'm into it.

615
00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:12.800
It tracks for me personally. Okay, So I've been sitting

616
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:18.000
here shuffling thinking about all of the things I talked about.

617
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:22.400
Are you gonna send me some energy as I'm choosing

618
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:27.119
a cod Oh, I'm showing the camera, but we're not

619
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.320
doing videos, so you don't need to see. It's fine. Yeah,

620
00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:36.320
so suck it. Okay, I'm closing my eyes. I'm digging

621
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:41.800
through the deck. Ooh, we got shaggy ink cap.

622
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:48.960
Oh Shaggy like a lion kind of Okay, yeah, I

623
00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:53.199
would say it doesn't look like a lion, but Shaggy

624
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:54.519
makes me think of a lion.

625
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.480
I don't know, yeah it does. And it says growth

626
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:04.599
slash destruction cycle, which is oh kind of interesting because

627
00:39:04.920 --> 00:39:09.239
there was kind of some self destructive behaviors and well.

628
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:14.480
And then the story like involves death construction. It's I

629
00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.199
feel like all of these different like parts of like

630
00:39:17.280 --> 00:39:21.079
the different life cycles of a of a place and

631
00:39:21.119 --> 00:39:21.800
of people.

632
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:25.440
Growth is interesting too, because that that was kind of

633
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.199
the whole point of the poor farm, which I hate

634
00:39:29.199 --> 00:39:31.920
calling it that, but yeah, I guess they were called

635
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:35.039
country farms to or something maybe a little nicer, but

636
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.039
like that doesn't really describe what it is.

637
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:41.960
So yeah, I think that like growth makes me think

638
00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:44.440
of bbe elephant tellto.

639
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:50.079
Yeah, and I got the day I was possibly going

640
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:52.559
to go into you know, they had the baby elephant

641
00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:57.880
Lily pass away, I know, and that was very very sad.

642
00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:00.880
I was saved gonna kind of talk about that, but

643
00:40:00.960 --> 00:40:03.519
I figured it, I don't know, it might just bring

644
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.840
down the house a little bit, but a little bit. Yeah.

645
00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:09.480
I finally Mom did tell me that they found a

646
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:14.280
cure for the virus that she died of no way

647
00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:16.920
sent her body in and they were able to find

648
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:21.559
a cure from that. Oh yeah, so now if it happens,

649
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:25.119
you know, to any other elephants anywhere they have, they

650
00:40:25.119 --> 00:40:26.760
can cure it now, which is great.

651
00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:32.800
That's amazing. I know, that is literally the card right there.

652
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:34.599
Yeah.

653
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:42.159
Oh, destruction and yet also growth and people were just

654
00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:47.679
like so rude. There was like people protesting after she

655
00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:52.960
passed away, saying that animal, like because she was in captivity,

656
00:40:53.079 --> 00:40:54.119
that's why she died.

657
00:40:54.360 --> 00:40:59.880
And like the the elephants have it out in nature too,

658
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:03.719
you know, yeah, they just can't track it as well,

659
00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:06.519
so they right, how are they going to know how

660
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:07.960
many cases are there are?

661
00:41:08.679 --> 00:41:12.360
Yeah, I mean I know I can understand that people have,

662
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:17.199
you know, different they have differing opinions about the ethics

663
00:41:17.280 --> 00:41:24.320
of domesticated animals. But my gosh, but I feel like

664
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:26.880
you're losing, Like you can't see the forest for the

665
00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:29.920
trees because like the real tragedy there is just that

666
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:34.079
the baby elephant died and it doesn't seem like it was.

667
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:39.079
You know, at the fault of the zoo. So no,

668
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:42.719
it just happened. But I mean, I hate to say

669
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:47.239
everything happens for a reason, but.

670
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:51.039
To be able to literally point to her case like

671
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.920
her death being sort of the genesis or whatever you

672
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:58.599
want to call it, the catalyst for finding a cure,

673
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:05.360
I mean, shit, everything happens for a reason feels kind

674
00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:06.679
of appropriate there.

675
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:10.800
Yeah, And I mean my mom told me that, So

676
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.079
I don't know, Mom, if you're info is wrong, I'm

677
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:14.440
saying it on my podcast.

678
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:18.119
So we are throwing you right under the bus.

679
00:42:18.719 --> 00:42:21.440
Mom told me no, I believe my mom. She's gonna,

680
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:23.840
I swear, when she retires she's gonna volunteer at the

681
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:27.039
zoo because she just like she knows everything about everything

682
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:27.599
at the zoo.

683
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:32.199
I love that. What a fun thing to do though.

684
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:34.320
I feel like volunteering at the zoo would.

685
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:38.079
Be really cool. Yeah, I know, I love it.

686
00:42:38.360 --> 00:42:40.920
I feel like she's got her fact straight. I mean

687
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:45.760
she she's like stalks the zoo. She reads all the things. Yeah,

688
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:48.679
I don't think she's about naughing correct information.

689
00:42:49.079 --> 00:42:54.719
I am a staunch Stephanie defender. Yeah. Anyway, Okay, enough

690
00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.800
about my mom. Okay, so this is the copreteness com mactis.

691
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:08.159
That's the scientific name. They're edible when young, white and fresh.

692
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.000
Oh so don't eat it when they start to get

693
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:12.519
black and goofy like the picture.

694
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:16.159
Well, yeah, that doesn't really look appetizing, to be honest.

695
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:21.239
The shaggy ink cap can be found in the grasslands

696
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:25.480
and open woodlands and has various stages of growth. Initially,

697
00:43:25.519 --> 00:43:28.679
it begins as a white egg shape, growing into a

698
00:43:28.760 --> 00:43:34.079
long bell. The pale brown area at the top breaks

699
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.840
into large scales, and in dry weather the whole cap

700
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:41.760
will do this. Uh, the gills start off white and

701
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:45.880
turn pink and then black. The shaggy ink cap will

702
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:51.159
then disdi delic delic. What the fuck is this word?

703
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:56.440
Del deliquis it is? It's deliquest. That's how you say it.

704
00:43:57.199 --> 00:44:00.920
That is liquefy or self decomposed. That's yeah, in the

705
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:06.639
in the actual interpretation here, I love it from the

706
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:10.679
from the bottom outside edge and work its way upward,

707
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.280
so it just starts to like liquefy. Oh, I see,

708
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:18.559
like like it's like the cat that's showing the cat. Yeah,

709
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:20.119
if you guys want to see the picture, go to

710
00:44:20.119 --> 00:44:21.039
our instagram.

711
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:25.599
She's not the partiest mushroom of ever signed within a

712
00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:29.239
few hours just to stem with a small disc will remain.

713
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.199
Oh that's kind of creepy because it's like that's so

714
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:36.360
fast and both of the I didn't really say it

715
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:40.199
with with Ross Senior, but like he was found in

716
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:41.039
a pool of blood.

717
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.199
It's like both of these people kind of like bled out. Yeah,

718
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:50.800
that's really interesting. Wow. The stem is hollow, and the

719
00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:55.920
stem ring will eventually become movable, often falling to the ground.

720
00:44:56.440 --> 00:45:00.920
Oh okay, going to the ground, which U again, both

721
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:01.559
of them.

722
00:45:01.559 --> 00:45:04.719
Yeah, feels like it could be very applicable.

723
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:05.360
In both cases.

724
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:12.440
Holy shit, Wow, that feels dead on a little too

725
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:13.880
on the nose with that one.

726
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:21.559
Yeah. The shaggy incap is also a bioaccumulator of heavy metals,

727
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:25.199
meaning it can clean up the soil and restore its

728
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:29.599
pH by drawing the heavy metals up into its fruiting bote.

729
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:33.480
That's amazing. That is pretty cool.

730
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:37.800
Yeah, it's like how you know trees are so important

731
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.199
to our environment because of how they like clean the air,

732
00:45:43.280 --> 00:45:47.079
which is exactly how it was explained to me as

733
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:52.599
a child, and my depth of understanding has not greatly

734
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:59.039
increased from that point forward. But that idea true's fact. Yeah,

735
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:01.239
it's fine sciencing.

736
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:08.519
Trees clean the air, mushrooms clean the dirt. Done science. Okay,

737
00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:11.840
you ready for the actual card, meaning now give it

738
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:15.199
to me. Each stage of your growth has different meanings

739
00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:18.880
and properties, just like the saggy Just like the shaggy

740
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:24.519
ink cap, it's not saggy. Well, just like the shaggy

741
00:46:24.519 --> 00:46:28.000
ink cap, you go through many stages over and over again.

742
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:32.280
Just like the Earth has its seasons, Every cycle has

743
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:35.000
a purpose and needs to be worked with, not against.

744
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.159
Ah kind of reminds me how like the land can

745
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:43.199
go through different stages of yes, being different things.

746
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:49.960
I think of how like managing land in a modern

747
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:53.880
but also like an ethical and natural way like we do,

748
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:59.199
like controlled burns and things that like would occur in nature,

749
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:05.159
they're naturally occurring, you know, kind of for lack of

750
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:10.280
a better term, like incidents, but things that help to

751
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:15.679
kind of develop and manage the environment in a way.

752
00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:18.480
That's what I don't know, that's just what it made

753
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:19.039
me think of.

754
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:22.800
Makes me think of two like them digging up the

755
00:47:22.840 --> 00:47:25.760
bones and then reburying them in the same spot to

756
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:30.360
kind of like preserve the history the growth of the land.

757
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.280
I don't know, work with it, not against it. Yes, Yeah,

758
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:38.519
At what stage of your evolutionary growth are you can

759
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:42.679
you recognize if it's growth or destructive cycle? The shaggy

760
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:46.360
INCCAP has both, and both are necessary. When you look

761
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:49.039
at the destructive cycle within yourself, do you try to

762
00:47:49.079 --> 00:47:52.360
push it away because you think it's bad? Only if

763
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:56.440
you're trying to jump dangle into lion pins?

764
00:47:56.519 --> 00:48:01.440
Yeah, I feel like self destructive tendencies can be bad.

765
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:06.800
I don't think that's a particularly hot take, but you know,

766
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:08.400
leaning in.

767
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:12.119
It's saying look at yourself and feet like is evaluate

768
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:15.920
showing is bad a bad thing? Or you just learning

769
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:19.480
and growing? Yeah, do you try to learn from it

770
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:22.239
because it is a necessary part of growing up or

771
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:26.559
learning a lesson. Not everything is bad when it is destructive,

772
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.159
and not everything that is growth is a good thing.

773
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.559
It's very true. I feel like this is very like

774
00:48:33.159 --> 00:48:37.639
some sort of riddle. Well, no, it is like riddle,

775
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:38.400
it is.

776
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.239
But if you think about it, like there's a reason,

777
00:48:41.599 --> 00:48:46.440
like there's so many things that occur, like in different

778
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:50.559
applications in life, right, but like the economy can't just

779
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.880
go up, up, up, up, up and up forever. Right,

780
00:48:54.199 --> 00:48:57.880
that's not how it has historically worked.

781
00:48:58.679 --> 00:48:59.920
Yeah, I know, be great.

782
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:03.800
But also like same thing with like population, and you

783
00:49:03.880 --> 00:49:08.760
see it in like wildlife populations where you know, as

784
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:12.559
predators are eliminated, then they have to do certain things

785
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.840
to manage like wild deer populations.

786
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:16.760
Things like that.

787
00:49:18.880 --> 00:49:23.639
Of a lot of complicated feelings about managing wildlife populations.

788
00:49:23.719 --> 00:49:30.280
But yeah, I hope that in most of those instances,

789
00:49:30.320 --> 00:49:36.199
people wiser and uh hopefully with a nearly equal level

790
00:49:36.239 --> 00:49:41.480
of empathy are managing that process in respect.

791
00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.400
Yes, when something grows or is destroyed, it must be

792
00:49:46.519 --> 00:49:50.400
a sustainable process or there is no balance. What can

793
00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.400
you keep in check before it grows out of control?

794
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.159
The key here is about finding balance within both the

795
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.599
destructive and growth cycles. Remember that not everything destructive is

796
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:05.119
bad and not everything that grows as good, and vice versa.

797
00:50:05.400 --> 00:50:07.559
Already said that. I'm not sure what's saying it again,

798
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:10.880
but here we are. Yeah, everything has its place and purpose.

799
00:50:11.199 --> 00:50:13.599
Our job is to learn and grow from everything and

800
00:50:13.679 --> 00:50:17.760
everyone in our lives. What can you learn from this experience?

801
00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:22.719
A special card, indeed, with many questions to ponder.

802
00:50:23.519 --> 00:50:28.239
Truly though, and you know what, generally I am not

803
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:33.000
big on things that just get reworded, you know, when

804
00:50:33.079 --> 00:50:35.960
you take the word salad and you just spin the

805
00:50:35.960 --> 00:50:40.360
bowl around. But I think some things bear repeating.

806
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:43.239
It was really trying to drive it home there that

807
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:46.599
I think. So our job is to learn and grow

808
00:50:46.639 --> 00:50:49.440
from everything and everyone in our lives. I feel like

809
00:50:49.480 --> 00:50:52.320
that totally fits the theme of all of this. Really,

810
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:53.679
learn and grow.

811
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.280
Learn.

812
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:58.239
You know, maybe you need more security or borders or

813
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:04.199
tighter locks on your construction areas or yeah.

814
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:08.400
It's hard because looking at this, you know, without you

815
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:11.880
know We certainly don't have insider knowledge of any of

816
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:15.719
these cases that you know, we sort of talked about

817
00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:18.519
in connection with the zoo. But it's hard to feel

818
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:22.519
like you really know what is the lesson and you

819
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:25.320
can kind of guess at you know what, maybe you're

820
00:51:25.360 --> 00:51:30.239
the takeaways, and I guess for each person, like the

821
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:33.559
takeaway really could just be something so different. But that

822
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:38.400
I feel like that's the whole point though, right, Yeah,

823
00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:41.159
But I think the important I mean the fact that

824
00:51:41.239 --> 00:51:44.719
it really is just driving home that you know, keep

825
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:49.400
learning and developing and questioning even you know yourself to

826
00:51:49.480 --> 00:51:53.239
a degree, you know, why are these the choices that

827
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:53.920
I'm making?

828
00:51:54.519 --> 00:51:58.599
Maybe that's a fair question too, and question I mean

829
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:03.239
the family hired private investigator just because they didn't. Yeah,

830
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:06.840
they wanted to, they wanted want to. I don't think

831
00:52:06.840 --> 00:52:12.239
they quite trusted they quite trusted who was investigating it

832
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:14.599
or the word of the zoo. I think it's totally

833
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:18.280
fair that they file a lawsuit against them.

834
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:25.519
Absolutely absolutely, And unfortunately sometimes I think that that can

835
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:30.719
be the only manner of recourse, especially in a situation

836
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:34.119
where like, you know, really their their aim may not

837
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:36.519
have been like, oh great, We're just going to get

838
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:40.760
this big payout. It really may have been more about

839
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.199
wanting answers, and sometimes the only way to do that

840
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.599
is to kind of pursue some sort of legal action.

841
00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:53.519
Not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, but I.

842
00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:56.800
Will say it's not the only case, you know that

843
00:52:56.880 --> 00:52:59.800
I've seen like this where you know, the family really

844
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:04.880
asked to be proactive in how they you know, kind

845
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.960
of pursue answers, and you know, the action that they

846
00:53:08.039 --> 00:53:12.719
take to you know, to get there hopefully they have

847
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:15.800
you know, something resembling closure.

848
00:53:16.280 --> 00:53:21.320
Now, it's so hard. I didn't really I don't think

849
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.559
I mentioned it either. But he was a black man,

850
00:53:24.280 --> 00:53:26.639
so I mean, I'm a I'm sure that could have

851
00:53:26.760 --> 00:53:31.840
been a factor in maybe people not taking it as seriously.

852
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:35.360
I mean, we've this was pre bad Black Lives Matter,

853
00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.079
but yeah, it clearly it had been going on for

854
00:53:39.199 --> 00:53:41.960
years and years and years before all the protests and things,

855
00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:44.480
so right, I mean, I feel like they were just

856
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:48.320
kind of maybe trying to stick up for him, and

857
00:53:49.639 --> 00:53:50.760
he should have been looked for.

858
00:53:51.719 --> 00:53:55.960
I can just understand given that additional context, how the

859
00:53:56.000 --> 00:54:01.719
family might not immediately be will to trust the official

860
00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:07.440
narrative without kind of you know, it's maybe it's you know,

861
00:54:07.599 --> 00:54:10.440
trust cautiously but verify.

862
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:13.199
Yeah, that's fair.

863
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:16.119
It's funny that you bring that up, though.

864
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:20.360
I know what you've gotten in the works a little bit. Yeah,

865
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:22.480
not like ha ha funny.

866
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:28.280
But yeah, there's just so little haha funny these days.

867
00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:33.039
Yeah, everyone just sing happy Birthday to an elephant and

868
00:54:33.079 --> 00:54:33.679
feel better.

869
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.440
Okay, oh my god, I know enough.

870
00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:41.840
Well that's all I got. Okay, I know. It wasn't

871
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:42.480
too spooky.

872
00:54:42.920 --> 00:54:45.599
No, I didn't even put my feet up.

873
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:48.920
Kind of sad. It's not what I was expecting when

874
00:54:48.920 --> 00:54:52.559
I went into this, Like I was not expecting especially

875
00:54:52.679 --> 00:54:57.280
the twenty nineteen, yes one, Like I was not expecting

876
00:54:57.320 --> 00:54:59.239
that at all because it's so recent.

877
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:01.280
Yeah, that's pretty mind blowing.

878
00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.559
Yeah, And like I was just overlooking, like at the

879
00:55:05.639 --> 00:55:08.760
Rhino enclosure, you know, like so now next time I

880
00:55:08.840 --> 00:55:10.880
go there, I'm just gonna like think about him.

881
00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:15.679
And yeah, there are just so many spaces that we

882
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:19.840
don't even realize and we visit and we interact, you know,

883
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:27.559
with or in and it's so interesting to learn more

884
00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:32.559
and just kind of find this totally like unexpected level

885
00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:37.199
of like reverence for you know, these these events, it's

886
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:39.239
like it's all part of human history.

887
00:55:40.039 --> 00:55:42.880
Yeah, kind of like you were saying with the last one,

888
00:55:43.000 --> 00:55:47.079
the the parking lot of the country club, Like you

889
00:55:47.079 --> 00:55:50.280
were saying, how it was cool that you went there,

890
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:52.440
but not not like cool but.

891
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:56.719
Yeah, but it just yeah, it definitely gives you a

892
00:55:56.760 --> 00:56:00.679
different perspective because there are just so many places that

893
00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:04.599
you can visit without a thought and you know, sure

894
00:56:04.639 --> 00:56:07.519
it's not something I witnessed or something that happened even

895
00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:11.280
in my lifetime, but you know, to think about like

896
00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:15.920
that's part of it's just part of the historical makeup

897
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:16.920
of the city.

898
00:56:18.159 --> 00:56:21.079
Yeah. Yeah, it would be interested to know to where

899
00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:23.800
the Lion enclosure used to be, because I don't think

900
00:56:23.840 --> 00:56:27.960
it's it's not the same enclosure. Yeah, I don't think.

901
00:56:29.880 --> 00:56:33.480
I you know, I don't know that much about the zoo.

902
00:56:33.519 --> 00:56:36.639
I think probably you'd have to ask your resident expert.

903
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:40.679
It's got to be different because like the seventies zoo

904
00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:44.679
was not the same, you know, like they've expanded and

905
00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:46.639
upgraded things oh so much.

906
00:56:47.119 --> 00:56:53.079
Yeah, for sure, that would be interesting to know. Okay, Zoo,

907
00:56:53.119 --> 00:56:54.440
contact us, we need to talk to you.

908
00:56:54.480 --> 00:56:58.440
We used to be have so many questions, Well, should

909
00:56:58.440 --> 00:57:03.000
we yeah, they so long. Farewell to the people.

910
00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:08.280
I've literally good night because we're going about after this.

911
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:14.760
Have a creepy asday. We'll see you next Thursday.

912
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:16.679
Bye.

913
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:24.320
Don't fucking dangle, Okay, never dangle. No, we're dangling anything here.

914
00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:31.760
Do you hear us men? Stop dangling, Lieutenant dangle. Oh,

915
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:36.519
my gord, don't be on the side of buildings. It's rude. Oh,

916
00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:40.960
that's super rude. You know who you are. You're definitely

917
00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:43.320
not listening. Dangling motherfucker.

918
00:57:43.480 --> 00:57:46.000
Yeah, speaking of dangling,