April 16, 2026

He Never Made It to the Funeral: The Murder of George Cecil David

He Never Made It to the Funeral: The Murder of George Cecil David
Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player iconGoodpods podcast player iconAmazon Music podcast player iconCastro podcast player iconRSS Feed podcast player icon

George Cecil David’s journey from Neah Bay to Port Angeles along Washington’s rugged coastline should have ended in a somber gathering just days later—family and friends coming together in remembrance. Instead, it became the beginning of a mystery that would remain unsolved for years.

In March of 2016, renowned Indigenous artist and master carver George Cecil David was on his way to Vancouver Island to attend a funeral, stopping in Port Angeles along the way—but he never made it to his final destination.

What followed was a complex investigation involving surveillance footage, missing evidence, and a timeline that raised more questions than answers.

For years, his case remained unsolved.

In this episode, we examine the life of a respected artist, the circumstances surrounding his death, and a case that would become a landmark moment for Washington’s Missing & Murdered Indigenous People (MMIWP) Cold Case Unit.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:05.519
At the time, there was, and thankfully now continues to be,

2
00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:10.599
growing awareness across the United States and Canada regarding systemic

3
00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:16.679
issues affecting indigenous communities, particularly when tribal members go missing.

4
00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:25.079
These included jurisdictional complexities, underreporting, lack of coordinated investigative resources,

5
00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:30.839
and historical mistrust between Indigenous communities and law enforcement. Many

6
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:36.280
large and interconnected Indigenous populations have been particularly affected by

7
00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:43.880
these challenges. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Helloo,

8
00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:49.520
This is PNW Hants and Homicides where we chat about

9
00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:54.079
true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the

10
00:00:54.119 --> 00:01:03.159
Pacific Northwest or the pnw if uniety. Hmmm. We also

11
00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:05.200
do a little tarot reading at the end of every

12
00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.680
episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic,

13
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:13.000
which just reminds me to grab the cards. Oh yeah,

14
00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.640
get them prepped, Get them Cassie, how would you feel

15
00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:21.799
about taking a little road trip. I love road trips.

16
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:25.760
I know, actually we took one not too long ago,

17
00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.200
kind of a short one, you know, as.

18
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:34.480
Long as we can stop and see like tourist traps.

19
00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:38.359
Oh my favorite thing, of course. Yeah, got to make

20
00:01:38.359 --> 00:01:42.799
that part of it will. Driving from Nia Bay to

21
00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:47.359
Port Angeles takes roughly ninety minutes to two hours, depending

22
00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:51.280
on the road conditions and traffic day to day. The

23
00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:55.719
drive along the Strait of Wanda Fuca National Scenic Byway

24
00:01:56.000 --> 00:02:02.359
or Highway one twelve offers stunning views of Washington State's coastline.

25
00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:05.840
If it's a leisure trip you're after, the area is

26
00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:11.719
rich with beautiful natural scenery and opportunities for outdoor activities

27
00:02:11.759 --> 00:02:15.479
like kayaking, fishing, and will watching abound.

28
00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:22.520
Oh Wales and I. Although I will say I didn't

29
00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:26.120
put this in my notes, but the official tourism website

30
00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:29.240
does mention that if you're participating in any sort of

31
00:02:30.319 --> 00:02:36.439
water sport or related activity, they generally advise that you

32
00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:41.800
either have like a professional paid guide, or that you

33
00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:45.599
be someone who's like very very confident and like highly

34
00:02:45.639 --> 00:02:50.479
skilled in set activities. Because the water the conditions can

35
00:02:50.560 --> 00:02:54.800
change very quickly. It's a it's a particular spot where

36
00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.639
if the weather changes, you can find yourself in a

37
00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:02.639
real kind of dicey situation quickly.

38
00:03:03.919 --> 00:03:06.800
Right, Yeah, that makes sense. I definitely won't be on

39
00:03:06.919 --> 00:03:10.560
the water with a professional or not. I will be

40
00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:12.360
well watching from the land.

41
00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:17.719
Okay, Well, can't help but feel like that might not

42
00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:23.919
be the most advantageous spot. But you do use some minaculars,

43
00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:29.759
will be fine. Yeah, but not every trip lends itself

44
00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:38.000
to leisure or leisure. Unfortunately, this trip, while it's for

45
00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:43.520
a far more somber occasion, a funeral in fact, well shit,

46
00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.759
and what's sadder than attending a funeral maybe never making

47
00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:56.039
it there at all. No. George Cecil David boarded a

48
00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:00.000
bus from Mia Bay to Port Angelus on March twenty fifth,

49
00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:03.599
with plans to travel on to Vancouver Island to visit

50
00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:09.800
family and attend a funeral on March thirtieth. George born

51
00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:14.280
in port Alberny in August of nineteen fifty was a

52
00:04:14.280 --> 00:04:21.759
member of the UK What First Nations in BC. And

53
00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:25.560
I'm I've listened to the pronunciation guide so many times.

54
00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:28.720
It's actually painful because I feel like every time I

55
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.439
listen to it, I pick up a different nuance. There's

56
00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.839
like a slight difference in intonation. I'm just doing my

57
00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:44.600
bast Those are great, yeah, okay, great, awesome. Yeah. I'm

58
00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.920
saving some of the pronunciation guides that I used in

59
00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:53.959
my sources this week so that people if they're curious,

60
00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.639
they can go back and find the you know, the

61
00:04:56.680 --> 00:05:00.000
source that I used. And some of them are totally

62
00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:05.120
unrelated to the case itself, but definitely seem like they're on.

63
00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:08.079
Like one of them is a YouTube video and it's

64
00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:10.439
an interview and it sounds like there might be some

65
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:13.680
really cool information in it. I didn't make it past

66
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.439
like the first minute where the person that's being interviewed

67
00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:22.720
says the name of the tribal affiliation approximately ten times

68
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:25.319
and under a minute, and I was like, this is dynamite.

69
00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:31.360
That's exactly what I'm looking for. Yeah. So back to George.

70
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.480
Those that knew him well said he was always upbeat,

71
00:05:36.079 --> 00:05:39.920
truly passionate about his creative work, and a mentor to

72
00:05:40.040 --> 00:05:44.560
many children in his community. He was a highly regarded

73
00:05:44.680 --> 00:05:50.480
artist and master carver. His works are displayed all over

74
00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:54.600
the world, from the Pacific Northwest to Norway, like in

75
00:05:54.720 --> 00:06:02.879
a royal collection in Norway and Kobe, Japan. That's pretty cool,

76
00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:08.279
very cool. He had even crafted to thirty six foot

77
00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:15.680
canoes for Chief Siach. Again tried real hard off the pronunciation.

78
00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:19.879
I'm not nailing it. I know this. It was Chief

79
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:25.720
Siach's gravesite so he's known as the Chief of Seattle

80
00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:31.000
or Chief Seattle in Suquamish, and that one I did

81
00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:36.000
nail so nice, ten out of ten stuck the landing.

82
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:42.839
His work reflected generations of Indigenous storytelling traditions. He did

83
00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:47.759
a lot of totem poles, which is obviously such a like.

84
00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:53.959
It's such an iconic style and medium for Indigenous art,

85
00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:59.480
and his presence within the artistic and cultural community extended

86
00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:05.000
beyond orders, well beyond any state or country. It's so

87
00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:09.600
much more than that. On March twenty eighth, twenty sixteen,

88
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:14.240
George was found dead in an apartment in Port Angelus, Washington.

89
00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.839
The circumstances surrounding his death quickly raised concerns, but the

90
00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:25.480
investigation initially struggled to produce clear answers. At the time,

91
00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.160
there was, and thankfully now continues to be, growing awareness

92
00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:35.399
across the United States and Canada regarding systemic issues affecting

93
00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:42.079
indigenous communities, particularly when tribal members go missing. These included

94
00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:49.639
jurisdictional complexities, underreporting, lack of coordinated investigative resources, and historical

95
00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:55.360
mistrust between Indigenous communities and law enforcement. Many large and

96
00:07:55.519 --> 00:08:01.000
interconnected indigenous populations have been particularly affected by these challenges.

97
00:08:02.160 --> 00:08:07.279
George David's murder remained unsolved for years. During that time,

98
00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.959
his family, including his daughter Maria, continued to seek answers

99
00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:17.720
and justice. Public statements from family members emphasized not only

100
00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.600
the loss of a loved one, but the loss of

101
00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:27.759
cultural knowledge and artistic legacy. Reports described unfinished carvings and

102
00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:32.960
projects left behind, symbolizing both an interrupted life and a

103
00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:35.960
broader cultural impact. Man.

104
00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:42.840
The visual of just like unfinished artwork is so.

105
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:47.600
So sad, it's really haunting. And obviously somebody who's such

106
00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.840
a prolific artist, they're going to have pieces that remain

107
00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.960
unfinished when they continue working on their passions, you know,

108
00:08:57.080 --> 00:09:02.440
all throughout their life. And clearly he didn't plan that,

109
00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:05.360
you know, this was going to be the day, the week,

110
00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.919
the month, you know, probably even the year that he

111
00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.519
was going to pass away. So I just feel like

112
00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:17.399
it really highlights you know, you never know when your

113
00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:21.879
time is going to come, and unfortunately his was far

114
00:09:21.960 --> 00:09:25.519
too soon, far too soon. He wasn't a young man

115
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:28.200
at this point, but he was, you know, in his sixties.

116
00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:32.559
He potentially still had a lot of life left. Yeah,

117
00:09:32.879 --> 00:09:36.240
the turning point in the case came along nearly parallel

118
00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:42.799
to the establishment of Washington State's MMIWP, or Missing and

119
00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:47.559
Murdered Indigenous Women and People Cold Case Unit under the

120
00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.519
Office of the Attorney General in twenty twenty three. The

121
00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:56.360
unit was created specifically to address cases involving missing and

122
00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:03.039
murdered Indigenous people, Recognizing that traditional investigative approaches had often

123
00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.200
fallen short in these contexts. The formation of the unit

124
00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.039
marked a shift toward more culturally informed and resource focused investigations.

125
00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:17.440
Charges would be filed after the case was reopened in

126
00:10:17.519 --> 00:10:21.840
twenty twenty four. On the day of his disappearance, George

127
00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:24.759
had just sold an art piece and was carrying hundreds

128
00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.279
of dollars in cash. Oh No. He was staying in

129
00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:32.559
a furnished basement apartment below a dentist's office while in

130
00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:36.159
Port Angelus. This was a friend of his. George is

131
00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:40.759
seen on security footage arriving in Port Angelus. He also

132
00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:45.679
texted his daughter Maria confirming his arrival. George was reportedly

133
00:10:45.720 --> 00:10:48.679
seen in the company of a younger woman at various

134
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.960
bars in the Port Angelis area before the pair was

135
00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:57.039
picked up by a cab. She wasn't significantly younger okay.

136
00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:02.039
I was struggling with a way to put that. She

137
00:11:02.200 --> 00:11:04.240
was a little bit younger than him, but not like

138
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:08.679
not like the age of his daughter or you know, right, okay.

139
00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:12.639
Before arriving back at the apartment where he was staying,

140
00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:17.799
that woman was also seen on gas station video footage

141
00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:23.240
buying cigarettes. The following morning, a number of outgoing calls

142
00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:27.480
and texts were made from Georgia's phone. In one exchange,

143
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:33.279
a person identifying themselves as Tina attempted to arrange a

144
00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.759
drug deal, then in others offered to sell a webcam

145
00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:43.200
and laptop. Though investigators were able to recover a significant

146
00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:47.919
amount of information from that activity, the device itself was

147
00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:53.080
never located following his disappearance, which is really interesting. I

148
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:56.840
feel like usually there's a lot of information they can

149
00:11:56.919 --> 00:11:59.679
get from a phone, even if they don't physically have it.

150
00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:02.679
But it's just strange to me that they didn't ever

151
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.759
locate the phone. Yeah, and it's not like that's it.

152
00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.759
I'm not saying that is like a dig against the

153
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.480
investigation or anything like that. It's just sort of I

154
00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.279
guess whoever was using the phone must have dumped it,

155
00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.559
and I'm assuming it was turned off or dead, and

156
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.000
then that makes it really hard to find it at

157
00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.879
that point. Yeah, could be in the ocean man, who knows.

158
00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.399
That same day, the woman George had spent much of

159
00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.639
the prior evening with was seen at an area Walmart,

160
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:42.000
where surveillance footage showed her visiting a hair salon. When

161
00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:46.559
she entered, she had long hair, but opted to cut

162
00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:51.879
it very short, new look all of a sudden. Huh Yeah, interesting.

163
00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:56.240
The stylist said. The woman paid in cash, noting she

164
00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:00.000
had been carrying quite a bit at the time. Reportedly,

165
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.919
the woman who she observed had scratches all over her face.

166
00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.360
According to the stylist, oh shit told her that she

167
00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:11.759
was preparing to turn herself over to authorities or a

168
00:13:11.799 --> 00:13:16.000
warrant out of Arkansas related to Carthuft. It's a weird

169
00:13:16.039 --> 00:13:19.159
thing to tell your hairdresser, A really weird thing. Yeah,

170
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:21.879
and not as far as I can tell, maybe not

171
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:25.960
even like an established like Previo, like this is your

172
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.960
regular hairdresser. I think it kind of seems like it

173
00:13:29.039 --> 00:13:31.279
might have just been a random one that she went to.

174
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:34.720
I'm not sure it kind of is kind of doesn't

175
00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:40.919
matter in any case, but jabberjaws over there. Yeah. Yeah,

176
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.360
the store's video footage showed that same woman purchasing a

177
00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:50.240
pay as you go cell phone, also with cash. It

178
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:54.639
was the following Monday that the dentist Georgia's friend went

179
00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:59.480
to the basement apartment, expecting to find it empty. Instead,

180
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:06.399
he discovered George deceased, his body folded into the sofa bed,

181
00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:10.840
with bloodstains at the head and foot of the mattress.

182
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:17.080
What the fuck? Yeah, I don't even know how that.

183
00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.759
It just doesn't seem like that should even be physically possible.

184
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.639
But it just also feels like it just represents such

185
00:14:24.759 --> 00:14:30.519
like a disrespect for this person. And obviously you killed them,

186
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.600
so I can't imagine that you have a ton of

187
00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:36.320
respect for them, probably, but yeah, it just feels so

188
00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:42.279
like senseless to me. I guess, I don't. I don't

189
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:46.840
know why. Certain details like that just feel like almost

190
00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:51.720
more upsetting than the crime itself. Yeah, like you didn't

191
00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:52.840
need to do that at all.

192
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.440
He was going to be found either way, like you're

193
00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:58.639
worth hiding it forever or if you're.

194
00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:01.960
Going to try to hide it. Poles actually tried to

195
00:15:02.039 --> 00:15:06.159
hide it, I guess, I don't, you know. Yeah, police

196
00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:09.519
believed that due to several blunt force wounds and blood

197
00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.440
that had pooled near the head of the mattress. He

198
00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:16.000
had been bludgeoned while lying on his back. It sort

199
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.279
of sounds like maybe he was about to go to sleep,

200
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:25.360
or maybe had already fallen asleep. They also discovered wrapping

201
00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:29.399
for a pipe wrench that Georgia's friend said he had

202
00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:33.519
previously purchased and stored in the basement utility room, but

203
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.720
he had never used it. The dentist informed investigators that

204
00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.080
a backpack, along with a laptop and Wi Fi router

205
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:47.000
were missing from the unit. Meanwhile, the mysterious woman was

206
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:52.879
staying overnight with an individual she had texted from Georgia's phone.

207
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:58.159
Just doesn't seem very smart to me to, like, so

208
00:15:58.159 --> 00:15:59.799
you're just going to lead them right to where you

209
00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:03.480
are are. Yeah, I mean that was kind of my

210
00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:08.480
same thought. Obviously, it takes some time for them to

211
00:16:08.559 --> 00:16:12.039
piece all of these things together, but it just is

212
00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:16.679
kind of like, I mean, like it's like an etch

213
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.399
a sketch of evidence, connecting all the dots, you know,

214
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.960
Like I mean, maybe she's innocent. I don't know, we

215
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:31.360
don't know yet. Yeah, totally totally When investigators recovered items

216
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.519
that she had left at that individual's apartment. The dentist

217
00:16:35.639 --> 00:16:39.320
was able to identify them, confirming they were in fact

218
00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:43.480
his missing items. So that that feels like it's a

219
00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:49.240
little bit harder to deny a connection. But yeah, seems

220
00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:54.240
pretty connected. Yeah. It was about a month later that

221
00:16:54.360 --> 00:16:58.600
George's wallet, emptied of the cash he'd been carrying, was

222
00:16:58.600 --> 00:17:04.559
discovered along a creek by volunteers picking up trash. Analysis

223
00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:09.480
of blood taken from under George's fingernails matched the woman

224
00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:15.079
he'd been seen with. Additionally, DNA taken from a cigarette

225
00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:18.599
butt found at the scene, as well as the wrapper

226
00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:24.279
for the pipe wrench, were a match to her as well. Wow,

227
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.440
so it sounds like a lot of evidence here. Yeah,

228
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.440
it does feel it seems as though it may be mounting.

229
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.960
Weeks after George's murder, that same woman was even arrested

230
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:44.240
in Mount Vernon on unrelated charges. She was shipped back

231
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:50.440
to Arkansas for violation of her parole stemming from a

232
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:56.720
felony theft. Wow, Okay, she gets around Yeah, Yeah, And

233
00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:01.440
honestly sounds like, hey, maybe she was telling that hairdress

234
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:03.920
of the truth and I bet that hair was like

235
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.799
the Stylus was probably like, oh shit, I kind of

236
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.839
figured she was just like jabber drawing, like you've said,

237
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:16.000
but what do you know. The suspect was a woman

238
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:21.880
in her mid fifties named Tina Marie Alcorn. Authorities would

239
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.680
learn that she had left the state of Washington and

240
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:31.359
was located in Arkansas. She was arrested in Phillips County, Arkansas,

241
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.160
on June third of twenty twenty five, at of all places,

242
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:41.759
a women's shelter where she had apparently been working. She

243
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:46.119
remained in custody Inklalham County Jail on a million dollar bail,

244
00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:51.200
with her trial date set in August. So August twenty

245
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.680
twenty five, less than a year ago. Wow, yeah, wild

246
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:01.039
to me. The case proceeded through the legal system, culminating

247
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.920
in a guilty plea for second degree murder in December

248
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:09.200
of twenty twenty five, ahead of her trial previously anticipated

249
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.079
to start in March of twenty twenty six. She had

250
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.680
a trial they thought was literally about to start a

251
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:22.359
couple of weeks ago. Wow, But she pled guilty. So

252
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.920
sentencing followed, with Alcorn receiving a prison term of just

253
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:32.039
over thirteen years. Okay, just pausing for reaction to the

254
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.519
thirteen years for murder. Yeah, I was like, is this

255
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.519
is for murder? Yeah? Like that's literally what kind of

256
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.240
it kind of breaks your brain a little bit. She

257
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.599
got like, yeah, thirteen years and four months is what

258
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.160
it works out to be. Though it may seem like

259
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.240
a short sentence given the brutal nature of the crime.

260
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.720
Court documents also indicate that she is not expected to

261
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:04.359
survive her sentence. Oh Alkhorn's position at the Olympic Medical

262
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:09.519
Center stated she is currently undergoing treatment for metastatic breast cancer,

263
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:17.039
with a prognosis described as poor at best. Wow, okay, yeah,

264
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:20.440
so I mean, why not just give her life? I mean,

265
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.480
to be honest, she's probably not going to survive her sentence.

266
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:30.119
They doubt that she'll actually make it through the sentence

267
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.240
at all. Like, yeah, I know, it just seems like

268
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:38.079
if you know that, I don't know, thirteen years though,

269
00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.160
it's just like a slap in the face. Well, part

270
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.920
of the reason, and it took me a little while

271
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.039
to kind of get down to the nuts and bolts

272
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.839
of it, and because articles were coming out right up

273
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.200
until like the holidays, like November December twenty twenty five,

274
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.839
it was a little bit challenging to kind of work

275
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.319
through what the like, what the timeline was with this.

276
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.240
One article was mentioning the twenty twenty sixth trial, and

277
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:13.240
they were mentioning that the prosecution wanted to go for

278
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:18.960
a first degree murder. She ended up pleading to second degree.

279
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.279
And so that can kind of explain obviously why this

280
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.440
didn't go to trial in March of this year, okay,

281
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.640
And it also probably explains why the sentencing feels a

282
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.519
little bit lighter than what maybe some of us would

283
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.960
consider like Okay, yeah, that's justice or if that makes sense.

284
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:44.039
Yeah, okay, Well, I mean they're the professionals, So I

285
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.440
guess allegedly, whatever.

286
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.119
Did she ever say? Why she did it? Like? Was

287
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:53.119
it just for I know? That was the thing that

288
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.200
was literally one of two notes that Chris had, like

289
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.000
at all period, He's like, I don't unders stand, and

290
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.880
he's like, just her money. Yeah, I mean, there's there's

291
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.519
nothing that provides any additional insight beyond that. It's wild.

292
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.279
While her conviction provided a measure of justice, it also

293
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:21.480
highlighted the complexities and limitations inherent in prosecuting cases many

294
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.200
years after the fact, because she would have been in

295
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.000
her mid forties when she committed the crime. She's in

296
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.000
her mid fifties when she's arrested, and by the time

297
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.640
her sentence is up, she will be dead and or

298
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:43.640
in her you know, mid to late sixties. Wow, I know.

299
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.920
It's just like, oh God. And it's like the fact

300
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.799
that it took so long. I mean, at least they

301
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:55.079
got it. They got it, yeah, in the end. But

302
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.039
that is a very long time. It's a lot. Yeah.

303
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.759
And the part it's sad about it is that that

304
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.559
is just not really all that unique. It's very unusual

305
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.400
that cases get solved like, you know, quicker than that.

306
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.759
To be honest, it's you know, it takes time. This

307
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:21.359
case holds symbolic and practical significance. It demonstrates the potential

308
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:27.480
effectiveness of specialized units that combine forensic advancements with culturally

309
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:33.279
informed investigative practices. The broader implications of the case extend

310
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:39.039
beyond a single investigation. It underscores the importance of sustained

311
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:44.279
attention to cases involving indigenous victims and the need for

312
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:50.000
continued investment in resources and expertise. It also highlights the

313
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:54.799
role of advocacy both from families and from indigenous communities

314
00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:01.839
in keeping cases active and pushing for resolution. And I

315
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.400
feel like it's just kind of shitty because I feel

316
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:09.279
like it's true to some degree in almost any missing

317
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:13.319
persons or any murder case. But I feel like the

318
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.680
fact that it's like it really takes this perfect confluence

319
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:22.599
of things to get answers in these cases. And we

320
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.680
know why that is. You know, it's like the bias

321
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:31.160
and the racism that's inherent in the system and in

322
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:36.680
our you know, society. Media coverage of the case has

323
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:42.720
emphasized different aspects of its significance. Reports from state sources

324
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.720
have focused on the investigative process and the role of

325
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.279
the MMIWP unit. Indigenous focused outlets have highlighted the cultural

326
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:58.799
loss and the personal impact on George's family. Local journalism

327
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:02.759
has provided detail accounts of the timeline, including the challenges

328
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:09.440
based during the investigation. For years, George David's case remained unsolved,

329
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:13.880
not because the evidence didn't exist, but because it hadn't

330
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.400
yet yielded the answers investigators needed. When the case was

331
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.640
reopened by a cold case unit, detectives returned to evidence

332
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:28.319
collected in twenty sixteen and conducted additional forensic analysis. That

333
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:33.279
renewed effort, combined with further investigative work, provided the critical

334
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.880
link that ultimately led to an arrest. After years of silence,

335
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.599
the evidence finally spoke. And the crazy thing and I

336
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:46.160
really had to tug at this thread, was like between

337
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.400
twenty sixteen and twenty twenty three or twenty twenty four, like,

338
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.119
what were the advancements in like DNA or other forensic

339
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:02.880
technology that made the difference. And that's just it. It

340
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.160
wasn't that, that wasn't how we got here. It was

341
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:11.279
the fact that some of that evidence they conducted additional

342
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.759
forensic analysis. So we're talking about evidence that we've had,

343
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:22.000
we've always had, and then renewed and further investigative work.

344
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.559
So these are tools that we always had.

345
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.799
Wow, and they just like let it go cold with

346
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:29.680
all that evidence.

347
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.480
The tough thing is is that sometimes when they can't

348
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:39.799
quite gather enough evidence, this is what happens. But we

349
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:47.599
know that it happens for certain populations, certain types demographics

350
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:54.839
of victims more than others. And it's why this particular

351
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:01.720
specialized unit is so important, Thank goodness. Yeah. The George

352
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.400
David case also highlights the challenges that can come with

353
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:12.039
investigations spanning multiple jurisdictions. George David was a Canadian indigenous

354
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.119
man whose life extended across borders, but at the time

355
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.440
of his death he was living in Washington, where the

356
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:24.640
crime occurred. Elements of the case extended beyond a single location,

357
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:31.119
requiring coordination across state lines. Differences and resources, communication and

358
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:36.480
investigative priorities can complicate that process, particularly in cases that

359
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:41.359
go cold. In situations like this, specialized units and renewed

360
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.880
collaboration can play a critical role in bringing long standing

361
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:54.519
investigations back into focus. So, while George was both a

362
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.400
resident of the state of Washington and someone who was

363
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.079
a victim of a crime in the state of Washington,

364
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:05.359
his killer was arrested in a different jurisdiction. He was

365
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:10.400
originally a native of Canada, so imagine that he had

366
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:17.559
been a Canadian who was here short term. The complications

367
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.200
of working with you know, multiple jurisdictions and then you know,

368
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.720
like I said, his killer is arrested in Arkansas. That

369
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.759
I mean, the amount of coordination and collaboration that that

370
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:33.319
takes on the part of law enforcement is you know,

371
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.079
we yeah, we can't forget about that, and historically it

372
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.559
is not something that has happened when it's this population.

373
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:47.839
And unfortunately, especially if crimes like these occur on reservation territory.

374
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.200
We've talked about it before with Highway twenty. It's so

375
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:57.920
upsetting it is. In examining the case, it is also

376
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:02.960
important to consider the historical context of Indigenous relations with

377
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:09.319
law enforcement. Many Indigenous communities have experienced systemic neglect and

378
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:14.400
in some cases, direct harm from institutions that are supposed

379
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:20.839
to provide protection. This history can affect reporting, cooperation, and trust,

380
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.880
all of which are critical components of effective investigations. The

381
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.200
success of the MMIWP Cold Case Unit in this case

382
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:34.880
may contribute to rebuilding some of that trust, Although such

383
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:39.759
efforts require sustained commitment over time. The unit's focus on

384
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:45.279
cultural competency and community engagement represents a step toward addressing

385
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.920
long standing gaps in the system. The role of advocacy

386
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.680
cannot be overstated. Families of victims often play a critical

387
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.680
role in maintaining public awareness and ensuring that cases are

388
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:03.000
not forgotten. In the case of George David, statements from

389
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.880
his daughter and others helped keep attention on the investigation

390
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.319
and underscore the human impact of the crime. The sentencing

391
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.480
in December twenty twenty five marked a formal conclusion to

392
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.119
the legal process, but it does not erase the years

393
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:24.359
during which the case remained unresolved. For many families, the

394
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.200
passage of time adds layers of complexity to the experience

395
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:32.559
of loss and justice. While a conviction can provide closure,

396
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.880
it does not fully address the emotional and cultural dimensions

397
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.720
of the crime. The George David case can be cited

398
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.640
as a model for how targeted initiatives can improve outcomes

399
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:49.759
in cases involving Indigenous victims. It demonstrates that with the

400
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:54.599
right combination of resources, expertise, and commitment, it is possible

401
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.759
to achieve justice even after many years. At the same

402
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:04.480
time time, the case highlights the scale of the challenge.

403
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.960
There are many other cases that remain unsolved, both within

404
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:13.680
Washington State and across the broader region. The success of

405
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:18.039
one investigation does not resolve the systemic issues that contribute

406
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:22.079
to the missing and murdered Indigenous women and people epidemic,

407
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:27.359
but it does provide a framework for future efforts. In

408
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.759
analyzing this case, it's difficult to maintain a balance between

409
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:37.200
recognizing the achievements of the investigation and acknowledging the broader context.

410
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.880
The conviction represents the significant milestone, but it is also

411
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.960
part of an ongoing process of addressing disparities in how

412
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:51.359
cases are handled. The murder of George David represents a

413
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.880
significant and deeply impactful case within the broader crisis of

414
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.839
violence against Indigenous people, not only in the Position Northwest,

415
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:06.440
but all over the world. George's work reflected generations of

416
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:12.440
Indigenous storytelling traditions, and his presence within the artistic and

417
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:17.160
cultural community extended beyond the borders of any single state

418
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:21.240
or nation. The story of George David is ultimately one

419
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.519
of both loss and resilience. It reflects the impact of

420
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.559
violence on individuals and communities, as well as the potential

421
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:33.079
for change when systems are adapted to better meet the

422
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.000
needs of those they serve. For those studying or discussing

423
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:41.880
the case, that offers valuable insights into the intersection of culture, justice,

424
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:46.799
and investigative practice. The Missing Indigenous Person's Toolkit is a

425
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:51.440
resource provided by the Washington State Missing and Murdered Indigenous

426
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.160
Women and People Task Force. The eighteen page document provides

427
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:01.359
instructions what to do immediately, action to take after reporting,

428
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:04.960
next steps, and even how to use local and social

429
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.880
media to advance efforts in the case of a missing

430
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:09.000
loved one.

431
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:14.880
Oh wow, that seems like really valuable information to have,

432
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.799
so like, families don't have to wait ten years, right

433
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:21.160
or longer to get shit done.

434
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:28.240
Yeah. I think we all understand the significance of this case,

435
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:32.839
like kind of in a broader sense of just the

436
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.720
injustice that so many have faith in this population and

437
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.680
the you know, systemic challenges. But I don't think I've

438
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:48.440
really bottom lined it in a way that like fully

439
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:59.079
explains why this is so important. But this case, it's

440
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:06.480
the first time that Washington's MMIWP Cold Case unit has

441
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:12.679
helped secure charges in a homicide. Oh wow, because they

442
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.719
you know, we're established basically at twenty twenty three, and

443
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:22.599
you know the time that it takes obviously to see

444
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.960
results in a cold case. I mean, it's actually, I

445
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:33.719
feel like a pretty remarkable turnaround. Yeah.

446
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.800
When you said that, like they were established and you

447
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:39.840
said twenty twenty three, yeah, I was like, whoa, Okay,

448
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:41.480
that is actually pretty good.

449
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.760
Pretty fast when I came across this with this case,

450
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.880
I just was like, Holy shit, Like I can't believe that.

451
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.199
I mean, this is something that's happened obviously in recent months,

452
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.199
but I'm like, how am I just hearing about this now?

453
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.079
And I think it's just more of the same, right,

454
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.880
I mean, it's just like this super important thing that

455
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:11.400
has occurred. It's like a landmark thing, but nobody really

456
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.000
is talking about it, and it's just kind of more

457
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.280
of the same in that respect, where like the reporting

458
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.760
isn't really like we're just not hearing about it, and

459
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:26.880
I'm just so sick of that. Yeah, I've lost my

460
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.920
ability to heement. I didn't I didn't take enough time

461
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.559
to kind of make a script like this part of

462
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:40.760
it my sort of reaction to this like really momentous thing.

463
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.280
I mean, I know that anybody that's listening is going

464
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:48.400
to understand just like this significance because of the historical

465
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:52.320
and cultural all of it. But the fact that like

466
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:56.280
this is the first it just just yeah, that's amazing.

467
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.559
I'm so glad we're not doing video for this episode

468
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:04.639
because I just look, I look horrendous. If you're I mean,

469
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:09.599
if I sound not great because I have cried at

470
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.880
some points, just think how awful I must actually look,

471
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.440
it's really hard to look at her, you guys, but

472
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.800
that's amazing. I hope. I'm glad you're talking about it.

473
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.159
I'm glad I know about it now, because otherwise I

474
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.039
probably wouldn't, and maybe a lot of people listening wouldn't either.

475
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.719
But I hope it's the first of many that they help.

476
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.679
I mean, it definitely feels like a very early positive

477
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:44.039
sign of of you know what's to come. I'd like

478
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.159
to end by sharing some of the thoughts and reflections

479
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.239
shared by those closest to George, a man who was

480
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.880
said to have been called Grandpa by roughly forty children

481
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:01.360
within his community. His daughter Maria, had two half finished

482
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.239
puppets he was working on near the time of his death.

483
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.280
In a statement she provided to the Washington Attorney General's office,

484
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.280
she said, Indian artwork is a way for us to

485
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:18.760
tell our stories, and his stories can no longer be told.

486
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:21.639
We will never be able to see any of my

487
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:28.840
dad's artwork again. Tabatha Frank, a tribal youth advocate who

488
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.800
was with Maria at Alcorn sentencing, said Maria said she

489
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.440
felt relief. She thought it would be a cold case

490
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.039
and never be dealt with. She was stuck in that

491
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:46.360
moment for nine years, so this is important to her

492
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:47.719
healing journey.

493
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:53.199
Incredibly important, Like, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine

494
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.320
nine years and some people, I mean, some people are

495
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.079
in that forever.

496
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:04.360
Yeah, I mean happen you know, two people that are

497
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.920
victims of crime or the surviving loved ones of all

498
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.280
different backgrounds. But I you know, I think I can't

499
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.559
overstate how certain populations are just just disproportionately affected. And

500
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.679
there are so many people that have gone to their

501
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:25.800
graves not knowing what happened to their loved ones. Oh.

502
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.360
I did just have a thought.

503
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.719
You said the rapper was taken off of the what

504
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.199
was it a wrench or something?

505
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:36.239
Yeah, it was a pipe wrench, and that's what she used.

506
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.840
That she used the pipe wrench is the assumption. Yeah,

507
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:42.119
so that is interesting.

508
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.360
I was thinking, well, maybe I don't know, maybe if

509
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:49.239
she claimed it was like self defense or something, but like,

510
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.119
why would you have time to take a wrapper off

511
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:51.960
of a pipe wrench?

512
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.599
And when they say rapper on a pipe wrench, I

513
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.199
don't know exactly what that consists of because I don't

514
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:03.119
think of like tools that's having, like a rapper like

515
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.960
if I buy a hammer, it doesn't come like shrink

516
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.679
wrapped or anything. Oh right, Yeah, I guess I don't

517
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.599
know what I was thinking. Maybe it was just but

518
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.679
maybe it was I mean, stranger things have happened. I

519
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:15.760
just I don't really know.

520
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.440
Or maybe it was just like in a bag or something,

521
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:24.119
or I mean, I don't know. That's I guess where

522
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.760
more of my questions are. Yeah, I wonder what was about?

523
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.679
Yeah, sort of these inane details that you're like, this

524
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:35.800
really doesn't matter, but I am curious because there's not

525
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.960
much else for there's really no other thread for me

526
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.880
to tug at. You know, well, let's do some taro.

527
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:49.400
Let's see what the cards have to say. Right, I'm

528
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.119
gonna do this thread. Do you want to tell me

529
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.519
like a side of the deck. Do you want me

530
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.000
to just run my fingers over them? Oh? Yeah, run

531
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:04.719
your fingers and I'll say stop, okay, okay stop. Oh

532
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:09.559
this is interesting. It's such a bright, happy card and

533
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:13.679
bunny because it's for those of us that do celebrate

534
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:18.480
it was just easter. Oh it's a bunny funny. Yeah,

535
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:19.199
it's like.

536
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:22.079
A bunny with like sunshine, like a sunshine halo around

537
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:23.039
the back of it too.

538
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:30.079
Yeah, so we drew the empress pictured here, this little bunnet.

539
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.159
It is a mountain cottontail. Okay, I'm going to read

540
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:44.519
you the poem. Okay. An enclosed earthen space, warm and dark, protected, hidden,

541
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.119
enough room to kick a hind paw but not much more,

542
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:57.039
cradled and supported by surrounding earth, Sounds muffled by many layers. Safety,

543
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:03.320
a store of nourishment, place to develop and grow, a warren,

544
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:09.760
a womb. Whoa what are it? I mean? Oh, I

545
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.719
don't want to say what I'm thinking. Are you thinking

546
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:18.719
about the sofa bed? Yes, that was immediately And some

547
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.480
of these words like so specifically like match up to

548
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:24.280
a bed, and.

549
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.719
Like I know the poem is supposed to be about

550
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:31.519
like a safe a space, but like, oh my gosh,

551
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.599
the the wordings.

552
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:38.079
Mm hmm, it's touching on something that like really freaks

553
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.960
me out about it because obviously George was already deceased.

554
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.880
He had asked at the point that he was, you know,

555
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:52.199
stuffed into this sofa bed. But there's something about that

556
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.119
being like it's enclosed, but like warm and dark is

557
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.719
some like those are things like everybody wants to be

558
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:06.559
in general, Okay, in general, a warm room dark you

559
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.360
want it to be like conducive to sleep protected, but

560
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:14.960
the hidden part Yeah, enough room to kick a hind pop,

561
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:19.800
but not much more. I don't I mean cradled that.

562
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.880
Yeah, it just gives a whole other meaning to this

563
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:26.880
little sweet poem when you're yeah, when you know what happened?

564
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:37.920
All right, So our keywords are creativity, feminine power, mature women, fertility,

565
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:47.079
and pleasure. Creativity though he was an artist, Yeah, yeah,

566
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:51.039
And I guess also when you think about art in

567
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:57.159
the context of like the confines of binary male female,

568
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:03.559
that like that whole construct our society or is something

569
00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:07.239
that largely is viewed as a much more feminine pursuit.

570
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.960
So maybe in a way that kind of makes sense.

571
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:12.599
You said he did totem poles and stuff, So I

572
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.679
was thinking like maybe like a lot of his art

573
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.280
was nature oriented, like other nature.

574
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:24.159
Yeah. Well, and I was gonna say, even even the fertility.

575
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:28.320
I feel like, in a way, like the fact that

576
00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:33.199
there were dozens of children that referred to him as Grandpa.

577
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:38.119
They were not like obviously his biological children, but obviously

578
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:42.320
they were looking for more of a metaphorical or metaphysical

579
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:46.000
meaning in the context of a tarot reading, and to

580
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.519
me that speaks to like a fertility of just of

581
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.400
just life in the broader sense. Right. Yeah, I like

582
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:59.159
that the Empress symbolizes feminine power in the material world,

583
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:05.119
contrast to the High Priestess, who represents feminine spiritual power.

584
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.119
A card of beauty and creativity. Beauty and creativity there

585
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:14.480
it is. The Empress is depicted as the universal mother

586
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:20.519
who governs pro creation, nurturing the security and comforts of home,

587
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:26.519
and domestic harmony. And it's funny to think about too that.

588
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.159
You know, people described him as someone who was just

589
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:34.000
like almost like eternally optimistic, and his daughter actually kind

590
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.199
of had a really funny quote about how he just

591
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:41.760
like he had no time for drama. Oh. I love that.

592
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:46.920
She's usually shown as a mature female figure, sometimes seated

593
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:51.559
on a throne, sometimes in nature, surrounded by flowers and vegetation,

594
00:44:52.599 --> 00:45:01.079
indicating fruitfulness, fruitfulness like having forty grandkids. Yeah. The Empress

595
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:04.719
is linked to Venus, the goddess of love, beauty, and pleasure,

596
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:09.199
and some tarot decks include the astrological glyph for the

597
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:10.639
planet on this card.

598
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.679
It is, I mean like his art was fruitful too,

599
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.559
you know, like he just sold some art. I mean yeah,

600
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:20.719
the money it got stolen and right, God is like

601
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:25.880
cut coort by someone who is very greedy, but still

602
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.840
like he just made some money off his art.

603
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:35.440
Yeah, okay, there's an extra excerpt. The Lady is the goddess,

604
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:41.920
the feminine energy behind manifest nature, the bestower of fertility

605
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:47.840
and creativity, who brings all seeds to fruition. The Empress

606
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.519
represents strong feminine energy and may describe a mother figure

607
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:59.000
or a mature, artistic slash creative person. Whether she rules

608
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:03.880
the home or business. She represents female authority. A card

609
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:09.079
of fertility, she signifies abundance of all kinds and shows

610
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:13.960
your capacity for nurturing, caring, and supporting others as well

611
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:14.920
as yourself.

612
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:19.039
That reminds me of the what was it called that

613
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.039
helped get the case solved?

614
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:24.679
The MMIWP Cold Case Unit.

615
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:27.000
Yes, I was like, there was too many letters and

616
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:28.039
I couldn't put it together.

617
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:29.960
It's a mouthful.

618
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:33.559
Yeah, it reminds me of that, Like they're going to

619
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.719
help people and it's going to be very bountiful.

620
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.840
I think. Yeah, sometimes this card refers to your own

621
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:48.119
mother in a man's reading, the Empress can encourage him

622
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:55.039
to recognize the feminine component in himself. Oh. In a

623
00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:00.119
reading about money, the Empress indicates good fortune and success. Yes,

624
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.599
you possess abundant resources and know how to use them productively.

625
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.280
She can also recommend joining resources with a partner or

626
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:14.079
group to increase financial gains. If the reading is about

627
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:18.320
your work, you're involved in a creative project and giving

628
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.880
it your all, and success is likely. She may show

629
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.400
that you've got things under control, or advise you to

630
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:29.599
take charge and work congenially toward a common goal. The

631
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:34.239
emphasis message to you is find harmony, unite disparate factors,

632
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:39.880
and reconcile differences for the good of all, which is

633
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:44.000
super significant in this case. Obviously.

634
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.360
Yeah, I feel like that's kind of like what he

635
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:50.840
would want us to remember too, because you mentioned he was, yeah,

636
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.760
very optimistic, So I'm like, at first this card, I

637
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.559
was like, I don't know about this, but.

638
00:47:55.639 --> 00:47:58.159
Yeah, it's really hesitant.

639
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.199
Yeah, it seems like what he would want out of this,

640
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:03.920
you know, I think so too.

641
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.880
In a reading about love, this card symbolizes a mature

642
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:14.840
loving relationship based on mutual respect, trust, and affection. It

643
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:19.039
also indicates a powerful sexual connection. In some cases, the

644
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:22.199
empress may refer to a pregnancy or the desire for

645
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:26.480
a pregnancy. I don't know. I guess we can cut

646
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:30.159
this if it doesn't feel like it's relevant. But there's

647
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:36.360
another extra excerpt. It says, I, with a deeper instinct,

648
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:42.199
choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous

649
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.760
demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or

650
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:49.800
my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent,

651
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.519
who has the courage to treat me like a woman.

652
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:56.480
Well, sweet, I don't know if it has anything to

653
00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.800
do with it, but yeah, I don't know either. It

654
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:05.360
is definitely interesting that this card is so like female

655
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:10.119
oriented and it was a woman that killed him.

656
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.800
Yeah. Actually, that's really interesting because obviously we know that

657
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.920
the vast majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by men.

658
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:28.199
Sorry not sorry, facts are facts. Yeah, I don't know.

659
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.599
The other part that I feel like is really sad

660
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.800
about this case. I had this thought that and it

661
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:37.119
wouldn't be the first time that I've heard kind of

662
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.239
a sentiment like this. But I feel like sometimes in

663
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:52.840
particular marginalized communities, when a crime is perpetrated by a

664
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.760
member of that community. So Tina was a member of

665
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:05.480
a different Bible affiliation, different different tribal community, but the

666
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:10.920
man that she killed was also Native. Wow. I feel

667
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.679
like there can be a tendency to be like, oh

668
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.920
well that, you know, just an attitude of like, oh,

669
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:20.079
these people are just killing each other, like like let

670
00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:25.039
him at it? Who cares? Almost right? Yeah? Very gross,

671
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.239
but like in a way I don't agree with that. Yeah,

672
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.519
but like in a way, there can be this attitude

673
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.039
of like, well, like why is that my problem? Or like, well,

674
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.920
that we're not doing anything wrong. They're just killing each

675
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:41.480
other and blah blah blah. And we kill each other

676
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.280
all the time, right, I mean people hurt other people

677
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:51.719
and they're you know, national origin, their you know, affiliation

678
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:56.920
with any other type of group what like. Sometimes that

679
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:03.519
doesn't necessarily have the significance. But I guess what I'm

680
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.599
struggling to like sort of put into words is that

681
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:11.559
you know, people say like, oh well, and you hear

682
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:15.119
it a lot about like the black community, Oh well,

683
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:18.440
that's just like gang members, you know, killing each other,

684
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.480
and you know that whatever shitty thing they're gonna say.

685
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:27.679
But it's like that is a direct result of these

686
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:32.599
horrible systemic things that we have done to marginalize these communities,

687
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.760
and they are all trapped in often like you know,

688
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:44.559
these dilapidated school systems and like failing dying communities, and

689
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.719
like the things that people will do to try to

690
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:56.800
survive can be horrific and incredibly sad. But it's like

691
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:02.360
this is part of like what our system has done

692
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:08.000
to them. Does that make sense? Makes a sense? You're

693
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:12.800
trapped And I've I've heard a lot of conversations where

694
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.079
sort of this this premise of like crab in a

695
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:21.320
bucket has come up. And the thing about crabs in

696
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.559
a bucket is that if they start to see one

697
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.400
of them that is, you know, attempting to or about

698
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.760
to escape, they will drag them back down. Damn crabs

699
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:38.320
are fucked. Yeah, it's kind of crazy, but it's like

700
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:42.440
and not that like that is the mentality of like

701
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:46.079
Tina or of anybody else like in a in this

702
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:50.519
situation or like a similar situation per se. But it

703
00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:54.440
is sort of this, like you are trapped by the

704
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.280
system that has put you. Does that make sense? Looks

705
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:03.280
like yeah, like the system just reinforces like it's just

706
00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:07.679
this vicious cycle of like, you know, you're in a

707
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.320
uh you know, a community where like you don't have resources.

708
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:15.320
You know, people maybe don't have access to education, or

709
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:22.719
you know, they're housing options are less than ideal. Uh,

710
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.960
you know, it's lower income, like all of these different things.

711
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.239
You know, you face violence at the hands of law enforcement,

712
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:35.920
whatever it is, and it just kind of keeps the

713
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:41.159
wheel turning on this like perpetual cycle of just like

714
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:45.880
being oppressed, and it's in a way like it's it

715
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.039
becomes like almost inescapable.

716
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:53.519
I just I don't know, Oh, that sounds like the inescapable,

717
00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:55.760
like being stuck.

718
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:58.599
Oh my god. Yeah.

719
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:00.920
Then, and I'm thinking of the cave in the in

720
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:02.639
the story, the little cave.

721
00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:06.519
That's awful. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like all

722
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:08.719
of that was just like way too many words to

723
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:12.639
try to explain something that's just like it's like we

724
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.360
all kind of in a way inherently understand it, but

725
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:19.280
it's hard to put it into words that explains it

726
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:25.719
without like being condescending or offensive in some way, or

727
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:30.840
making assumptions about like people that you don't necessarily have

728
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:35.960
like a direct lived experience that they do if that

729
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.440
makes sense. It's like you're kind of you're you're basing

730
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:44.719
sort of these like ideas and principles off of like

731
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:49.400
things that you like observed but like thirdhand or you know,

732
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:53.239
it's like because I'm I'm not living on a reservation

733
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:57.000
and basing all of the challenges that they do and

734
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.119
and not that you know, George also wasn't living on

735
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.119
res but it's like it extends beyond that, even when

736
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.519
you're not somebody who's native that's living on the res

737
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:15.000
like your heritage and all of the horrific like oppressive

738
00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:19.719
forces that have affected these communities for hundreds of years,

739
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:22.639
like that still follows them. It just makes me so sad.

740
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.840
Thanks for making us all sad. Kalin again, once again,

741
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:32.039
congrats to you. But nobody has really talked about this case.

742
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:34.760
I came. I came across it because I was literally

743
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:40.199
looking for cases that are like really significant but that

744
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:44.960
like haven't had fifty thousand podcasts talk about them, and

745
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:50.679
like are underreported in like you know, traditional news sources

746
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.199
and stuff. And I was like, I can't believe it.

747
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.400
I'm so excited to talk about this case because it

748
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.320
is so important, but I will be so excited if

749
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:02.480
we get to be like one of the you know,

750
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:06.960
first podcasts in our genre and our niche that talks

751
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.800
about it and like brings this into kind of consciousness

752
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:14.719
for people. I mean, I feel like I'm overplaying this

753
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.800
perfic of our show, but I'm like, I want people

754
00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:21.840
to know about this, and I just you know, it's

755
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.440
exciting to think that. It's like, you know, you can

756
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.159
help to spread sort of awareness and like this this

757
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:31.639
is so it's so fucking huge. It is. I might

758
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.159
be overselling our significance in relation to it, but I can't.

759
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:40.079
I can't possibly oversell how important and how significant like

760
00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:44.079
this case and you know what's happened here, like this

761
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.599
development with the cold case unit. Like, I'm not over

762
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:52.079
selling that. This is fucking huge. Yeah, that's amazing. It's

763
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:56.280
like the first of many building blocks that everybody needs

764
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.000
to be able to build trust between these marginalized community

765
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:03.960
and like I said, the people that are, you know,

766
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:10.440
in these positions specifically to protect and traditionally maybe have

767
00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:13.440
not done that in every case when it comes to

768
00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:16.760
these communities. It's the first thing that I've that I've

769
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:20.039
heard in the news in a long time that actually

770
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:25.360
makes me feel hopeful for the future. So we need

771
00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:28.119
more of that. Yeah. It just feels like, even though

772
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.199
it's really really sad, it just it feels like it's

773
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:35.760
important to know about the good things that are happening

774
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:36.840
in the world right now.

775
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.280
So you brought us down and then you also brought

776
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.599
us up. Okay, you're forgiven.

777
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.039
Yeah. It's like when you go uh to boot camp

778
00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:48.599
and they break you down to build you back up.

779
00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:55.480
That's exactly what Caitlin is like. She's just like boot camp. Yeah,

780
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:59.880
I feel like that explains a lot. I think that

781
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.360
I think that that's all we got today.

782
00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:05.119
I don't think I could handle any more bad news

783
00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:07.400
or good news. So you know what, I'm crept out.

784
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.199
No news is good news. Yeah, just no more, no more.

785
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:17.559
All done. We're done for today. All right? Should we

786
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:21.440
say goodbye to the people, Yeah, let's do it. Have

787
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:27.880
a creepy ass day. We'll see you next Thursday. Public

788
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.760
statements from family members emphasize not only the loss of

789
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:38.199
a loved one. Are you hearing the squeaky toy scharlet, Hey,