April 16, 2026

He Never Made It to the Funeral: The Murder of George Cecil David

He Never Made It to the Funeral: The Murder of George Cecil David
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George Cecil David’s journey from Neah Bay to Port Angeles along Washington’s rugged coastline should have ended in a somber gathering just days later—family and friends coming together in remembrance. Instead, it became the beginning of a mystery that would remain unsolved for years.

In March of 2016, renowned Indigenous artist and master carver George Cecil David was on his way to Vancouver Island to attend a funeral, stopping in Port Angeles along the way—but he never made it to his final destination.

What followed was a complex investigation involving surveillance footage, missing evidence, and a timeline that raised more questions than answers.

For years, his case remained unsolved.

In this episode, we examine the life of a respected artist, the circumstances surrounding his death, and a case that would become a landmark moment for Washington’s Missing & Murdered Indigenous People (MMIWP) Cold Case Unit.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts. Sources

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At the time, there was, and thankfully now continues to be,

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growing awareness across the United States and Canada regarding systemic

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issues affecting indigenous communities, particularly when tribal members go missing.

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These included jurisdictional complexities, underreporting, lack of coordinated investigative resources,

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and historical mistrust between Indigenous communities and law enforcement. Many

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large and interconnected Indigenous populations have been particularly affected by

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these challenges. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Helloo,

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This is PNW Hants and Homicides where we chat about

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true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky in the

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Pacific Northwest or the pnw if uniety. Hmmm. We also

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do a little tarot reading at the end of every

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episode for a little bit of deeper insight into our topic,

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which just reminds me to grab the cards. Oh yeah,

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get them prepped, Get them Cassie, how would you feel

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about taking a little road trip. I love road trips.

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I know, actually we took one not too long ago,

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kind of a short one, you know, as.

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Long as we can stop and see like tourist traps.

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Oh my favorite thing, of course. Yeah, got to make

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that part of it will. Driving from Nia Bay to

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Port Angeles takes roughly ninety minutes to two hours, depending

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on the road conditions and traffic day to day. The

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drive along the Strait of Wanda Fuca National Scenic Byway

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or Highway one twelve offers stunning views of Washington State's coastline.

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If it's a leisure trip you're after, the area is

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rich with beautiful natural scenery and opportunities for outdoor activities

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like kayaking, fishing, and will watching abound.

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Oh Wales and I. Although I will say I didn't

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put this in my notes, but the official tourism website

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does mention that if you're participating in any sort of

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water sport or related activity, they generally advise that you

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either have like a professional paid guide, or that you

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be someone who's like very very confident and like highly

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skilled in set activities. Because the water the conditions can

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change very quickly. It's a it's a particular spot where

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if the weather changes, you can find yourself in a

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real kind of dicey situation quickly.

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Right, Yeah, that makes sense. I definitely won't be on

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the water with a professional or not. I will be

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well watching from the land.

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Okay, Well, can't help but feel like that might not

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be the most advantageous spot. But you do use some minaculars,

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will be fine. Yeah, but not every trip lends itself

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to leisure or leisure. Unfortunately, this trip, while it's for

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a far more somber occasion, a funeral in fact, well shit,

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and what's sadder than attending a funeral maybe never making

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it there at all. No. George Cecil David boarded a

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bus from Mia Bay to Port Angelus on March twenty fifth,

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with plans to travel on to Vancouver Island to visit

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family and attend a funeral on March thirtieth. George born

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in port Alberny in August of nineteen fifty was a

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member of the UK What First Nations in BC. And

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I'm I've listened to the pronunciation guide so many times.

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It's actually painful because I feel like every time I

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listen to it, I pick up a different nuance. There's

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like a slight difference in intonation. I'm just doing my

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bast Those are great, yeah, okay, great, awesome. Yeah. I'm

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saving some of the pronunciation guides that I used in

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my sources this week so that people if they're curious,

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they can go back and find the you know, the

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source that I used. And some of them are totally

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unrelated to the case itself, but definitely seem like they're on.

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Like one of them is a YouTube video and it's

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an interview and it sounds like there might be some

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really cool information in it. I didn't make it past

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like the first minute where the person that's being interviewed

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says the name of the tribal affiliation approximately ten times

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and under a minute, and I was like, this is dynamite.

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That's exactly what I'm looking for. Yeah. So back to George.

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Those that knew him well said he was always upbeat,

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truly passionate about his creative work, and a mentor to

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many children in his community. He was a highly regarded

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artist and master carver. His works are displayed all over

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the world, from the Pacific Northwest to Norway, like in

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a royal collection in Norway and Kobe, Japan. That's pretty cool,

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very cool. He had even crafted to thirty six foot

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canoes for Chief Siach. Again tried real hard off the pronunciation.

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I'm not nailing it. I know this. It was Chief

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Siach's gravesite so he's known as the Chief of Seattle

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or Chief Seattle in Suquamish, and that one I did

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nail so nice, ten out of ten stuck the landing.

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His work reflected generations of Indigenous storytelling traditions. He did

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a lot of totem poles, which is obviously such a like.

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It's such an iconic style and medium for Indigenous art,

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and his presence within the artistic and cultural community extended

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beyond orders, well beyond any state or country. It's so

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much more than that. On March twenty eighth, twenty sixteen,

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George was found dead in an apartment in Port Angelus, Washington.

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The circumstances surrounding his death quickly raised concerns, but the

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investigation initially struggled to produce clear answers. At the time,

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there was, and thankfully now continues to be, growing awareness

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across the United States and Canada regarding systemic issues affecting

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indigenous communities, particularly when tribal members go missing. These included

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jurisdictional complexities, underreporting, lack of coordinated investigative resources, and historical

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mistrust between Indigenous communities and law enforcement. Many large and

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interconnected indigenous populations have been particularly affected by these challenges.

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George David's murder remained unsolved for years. During that time,

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his family, including his daughter Maria, continued to seek answers

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and justice. Public statements from family members emphasized not only

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the loss of a loved one, but the loss of

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cultural knowledge and artistic legacy. Reports described unfinished carvings and

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projects left behind, symbolizing both an interrupted life and a

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broader cultural impact. Man.

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The visual of just like unfinished artwork is so.

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So sad, it's really haunting. And obviously somebody who's such

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a prolific artist, they're going to have pieces that remain

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unfinished when they continue working on their passions, you know,

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all throughout their life. And clearly he didn't plan that,

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you know, this was going to be the day, the week,

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the month, you know, probably even the year that he

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was going to pass away. So I just feel like

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it really highlights you know, you never know when your

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time is going to come, and unfortunately his was far

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too soon, far too soon. He wasn't a young man

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at this point, but he was, you know, in his sixties.

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He potentially still had a lot of life left. Yeah,

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the turning point in the case came along nearly parallel

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to the establishment of Washington State's MMIWP, or Missing and

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Murdered Indigenous Women and People Cold Case Unit under the

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Office of the Attorney General in twenty twenty three. The

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unit was created specifically to address cases involving missing and

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murdered Indigenous people, Recognizing that traditional investigative approaches had often

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fallen short in these contexts. The formation of the unit

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marked a shift toward more culturally informed and resource focused investigations.

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Charges would be filed after the case was reopened in

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twenty twenty four. On the day of his disappearance, George

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had just sold an art piece and was carrying hundreds

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of dollars in cash. Oh No. He was staying in

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a furnished basement apartment below a dentist's office while in

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Port Angelus. This was a friend of his. George is

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seen on security footage arriving in Port Angelus. He also

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texted his daughter Maria confirming his arrival. George was reportedly

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seen in the company of a younger woman at various

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bars in the Port Angelis area before the pair was

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picked up by a cab. She wasn't significantly younger okay.

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I was struggling with a way to put that. She

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was a little bit younger than him, but not like

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not like the age of his daughter or you know, right, okay.

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Before arriving back at the apartment where he was staying,

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that woman was also seen on gas station video footage

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buying cigarettes. The following morning, a number of outgoing calls

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and texts were made from Georgia's phone. In one exchange,

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a person identifying themselves as Tina attempted to arrange a

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drug deal, then in others offered to sell a webcam

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and laptop. Though investigators were able to recover a significant

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amount of information from that activity, the device itself was

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never located following his disappearance, which is really interesting. I

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feel like usually there's a lot of information they can

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get from a phone, even if they don't physically have it.

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But it's just strange to me that they didn't ever

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locate the phone. Yeah, and it's not like that's it.

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I'm not saying that is like a dig against the

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investigation or anything like that. It's just sort of I

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guess whoever was using the phone must have dumped it,

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and I'm assuming it was turned off or dead, and

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then that makes it really hard to find it at

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that point. Yeah, could be in the ocean man, who knows.

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That same day, the woman George had spent much of

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the prior evening with was seen at an area Walmart,

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where surveillance footage showed her visiting a hair salon. When

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she entered, she had long hair, but opted to cut

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it very short, new look all of a sudden. Huh Yeah, interesting.

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The stylist said. The woman paid in cash, noting she

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had been carrying quite a bit at the time. Reportedly,

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the woman who she observed had scratches all over her face.

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According to the stylist, oh shit told her that she

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was preparing to turn herself over to authorities or a

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warrant out of Arkansas related to Carthuft. It's a weird

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thing to tell your hairdresser, A really weird thing. Yeah,

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and not as far as I can tell, maybe not

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even like an established like Previo, like this is your

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regular hairdresser. I think it kind of seems like it

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might have just been a random one that she went to.

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I'm not sure it kind of is kind of doesn't

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matter in any case, but jabberjaws over there. Yeah. Yeah,

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the store's video footage showed that same woman purchasing a

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pay as you go cell phone, also with cash. It

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was the following Monday that the dentist Georgia's friend went

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to the basement apartment, expecting to find it empty. Instead,

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he discovered George deceased, his body folded into the sofa bed,

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with bloodstains at the head and foot of the mattress.

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What the fuck? Yeah, I don't even know how that.

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It just doesn't seem like that should even be physically possible.

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But it just also feels like it just represents such

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like a disrespect for this person. And obviously you killed them,

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so I can't imagine that you have a ton of

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respect for them, probably, but yeah, it just feels so

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like senseless to me. I guess, I don't. I don't

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know why. Certain details like that just feel like almost

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more upsetting than the crime itself. Yeah, like you didn't

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need to do that at all.

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He was going to be found either way, like you're

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worth hiding it forever or if you're.

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Going to try to hide it. Poles actually tried to

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hide it, I guess, I don't, you know. Yeah, police

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believed that due to several blunt force wounds and blood

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that had pooled near the head of the mattress. He

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had been bludgeoned while lying on his back. It sort

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of sounds like maybe he was about to go to sleep,

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or maybe had already fallen asleep. They also discovered wrapping

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for a pipe wrench that Georgia's friend said he had

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previously purchased and stored in the basement utility room, but

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he had never used it. The dentist informed investigators that

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a backpack, along with a laptop and Wi Fi router

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were missing from the unit. Meanwhile, the mysterious woman was

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staying overnight with an individual she had texted from Georgia's phone.

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Just doesn't seem very smart to me to, like, so

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you're just going to lead them right to where you

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are are. Yeah, I mean that was kind of my

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same thought. Obviously, it takes some time for them to

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piece all of these things together, but it just is

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kind of like, I mean, like it's like an etch

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a sketch of evidence, connecting all the dots, you know,

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Like I mean, maybe she's innocent. I don't know, we

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don't know yet. Yeah, totally totally When investigators recovered items

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that she had left at that individual's apartment. The dentist

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was able to identify them, confirming they were in fact

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his missing items. So that that feels like it's a

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little bit harder to deny a connection. But yeah, seems

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pretty connected. Yeah. It was about a month later that

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George's wallet, emptied of the cash he'd been carrying, was

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discovered along a creek by volunteers picking up trash. Analysis

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of blood taken from under George's fingernails matched the woman

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he'd been seen with. Additionally, DNA taken from a cigarette

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butt found at the scene, as well as the wrapper

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for the pipe wrench, were a match to her as well. Wow,

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00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.440
so it sounds like a lot of evidence here. Yeah,

228
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.440
it does feel it seems as though it may be mounting.

229
00:17:34.839 --> 00:17:38.960
Weeks after George's murder, that same woman was even arrested

230
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:44.240
in Mount Vernon on unrelated charges. She was shipped back

231
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:50.440
to Arkansas for violation of her parole stemming from a

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00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:56.720
felony theft. Wow, Okay, she gets around Yeah, Yeah, And

233
00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:01.440
honestly sounds like, hey, maybe she was telling that hairdress

234
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of the truth and I bet that hair was like

235
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.799
the Stylus was probably like, oh shit, I kind of

236
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.839
figured she was just like jabber drawing, like you've said,

237
00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:16.000
but what do you know. The suspect was a woman

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00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:21.880
in her mid fifties named Tina Marie Alcorn. Authorities would

239
00:18:21.920 --> 00:18:24.680
learn that she had left the state of Washington and

240
00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:31.359
was located in Arkansas. She was arrested in Phillips County, Arkansas,

241
00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.160
on June third of twenty twenty five, at of all places,

242
00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:41.759
a women's shelter where she had apparently been working. She

243
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:46.119
remained in custody Inklalham County Jail on a million dollar bail,

244
00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:51.200
with her trial date set in August. So August twenty

245
00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.680
twenty five, less than a year ago. Wow, yeah, wild

246
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:01.039
to me. The case proceeded through the legal system, culminating

247
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.920
in a guilty plea for second degree murder in December

248
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of twenty twenty five, ahead of her trial previously anticipated

249
00:19:09.240 --> 00:19:13.079
to start in March of twenty twenty six. She had

250
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.680
a trial they thought was literally about to start a

251
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:22.359
couple of weeks ago. Wow, But she pled guilty. So

252
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.920
sentencing followed, with Alcorn receiving a prison term of just

253
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:32.039
over thirteen years. Okay, just pausing for reaction to the

254
00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:36.519
thirteen years for murder. Yeah, I was like, is this

255
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.519
is for murder? Yeah? Like that's literally what kind of

256
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.240
it kind of breaks your brain a little bit. She

257
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.599
got like, yeah, thirteen years and four months is what

258
00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:49.160
it works out to be. Though it may seem like

259
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:52.240
a short sentence given the brutal nature of the crime.

260
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Court documents also indicate that she is not expected to

261
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:04.359
survive her sentence. Oh Alkhorn's position at the Olympic Medical

262
00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:09.519
Center stated she is currently undergoing treatment for metastatic breast cancer,

263
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:17.039
with a prognosis described as poor at best. Wow, okay, yeah,

264
00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:20.440
so I mean, why not just give her life? I mean,

265
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.480
to be honest, she's probably not going to survive her sentence.

266
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They doubt that she'll actually make it through the sentence

267
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.240
at all. Like, yeah, I know, it just seems like

268
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:38.079
if you know that, I don't know, thirteen years though,

269
00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.160
it's just like a slap in the face. Well, part

270
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.920
of the reason, and it took me a little while

271
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to kind of get down to the nuts and bolts

272
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:51.839
of it, and because articles were coming out right up

273
00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:56.200
until like the holidays, like November December twenty twenty five,

274
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.839
it was a little bit challenging to kind of work

275
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.319
through what the like, what the timeline was with this.

276
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:08.240
One article was mentioning the twenty twenty sixth trial, and

277
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:13.240
they were mentioning that the prosecution wanted to go for

278
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:18.960
a first degree murder. She ended up pleading to second degree.

279
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.279
And so that can kind of explain obviously why this

280
00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.440
didn't go to trial in March of this year, okay,

281
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.640
And it also probably explains why the sentencing feels a

282
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:35.519
little bit lighter than what maybe some of us would

283
00:21:35.559 --> 00:21:39.960
consider like Okay, yeah, that's justice or if that makes sense.

284
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:44.039
Yeah, okay, Well, I mean they're the professionals, So I

285
00:21:44.079 --> 00:21:47.440
guess allegedly, whatever.

286
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.119
Did she ever say? Why she did it? Like? Was

287
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:53.119
it just for I know? That was the thing that

288
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:57.200
was literally one of two notes that Chris had, like

289
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:01.000
at all period, He's like, I don't unders stand, and

290
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.880
he's like, just her money. Yeah, I mean, there's there's

291
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.519
nothing that provides any additional insight beyond that. It's wild.

292
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.279
While her conviction provided a measure of justice, it also

293
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:21.480
highlighted the complexities and limitations inherent in prosecuting cases many

294
00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.200
years after the fact, because she would have been in

295
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.000
her mid forties when she committed the crime. She's in

296
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.000
her mid fifties when she's arrested, and by the time

297
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.640
her sentence is up, she will be dead and or

298
00:22:36.720 --> 00:22:43.640
in her you know, mid to late sixties. Wow, I know.

299
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:46.920
It's just like, oh God. And it's like the fact

300
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.799
that it took so long. I mean, at least they

301
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:55.079
got it. They got it, yeah, in the end. But

302
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.039
that is a very long time. It's a lot. Yeah.

303
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.759
And the part it's sad about it is that that

304
00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.559
is just not really all that unique. It's very unusual

305
00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:10.400
that cases get solved like, you know, quicker than that.

306
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.759
To be honest, it's you know, it takes time. This

307
00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:21.359
case holds symbolic and practical significance. It demonstrates the potential

308
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:27.480
effectiveness of specialized units that combine forensic advancements with culturally

309
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:33.279
informed investigative practices. The broader implications of the case extend

310
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:39.039
beyond a single investigation. It underscores the importance of sustained

311
00:23:39.319 --> 00:23:44.279
attention to cases involving indigenous victims and the need for

312
00:23:44.359 --> 00:23:50.000
continued investment in resources and expertise. It also highlights the

313
00:23:50.119 --> 00:23:54.799
role of advocacy both from families and from indigenous communities

314
00:23:55.279 --> 00:24:01.839
in keeping cases active and pushing for resolution. And I

315
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.400
feel like it's just kind of shitty because I feel

316
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:09.279
like it's true to some degree in almost any missing

317
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:13.319
persons or any murder case. But I feel like the

318
00:24:13.400 --> 00:24:17.680
fact that it's like it really takes this perfect confluence

319
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:22.599
of things to get answers in these cases. And we

320
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.680
know why that is. You know, it's like the bias

321
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:31.160
and the racism that's inherent in the system and in

322
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:36.680
our you know, society. Media coverage of the case has

323
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:42.720
emphasized different aspects of its significance. Reports from state sources

324
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.720
have focused on the investigative process and the role of

325
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.279
the MMIWP unit. Indigenous focused outlets have highlighted the cultural

326
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:58.799
loss and the personal impact on George's family. Local journalism

327
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:02.759
has provided detail accounts of the timeline, including the challenges

328
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:09.440
based during the investigation. For years, George David's case remained unsolved,

329
00:25:10.279 --> 00:25:13.880
not because the evidence didn't exist, but because it hadn't

330
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:18.400
yet yielded the answers investigators needed. When the case was

331
00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.640
reopened by a cold case unit, detectives returned to evidence

332
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:28.319
collected in twenty sixteen and conducted additional forensic analysis. That

333
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:33.279
renewed effort, combined with further investigative work, provided the critical

334
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.880
link that ultimately led to an arrest. After years of silence,

335
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.599
the evidence finally spoke. And the crazy thing and I

336
00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:46.160
really had to tug at this thread, was like between

337
00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.400
twenty sixteen and twenty twenty three or twenty twenty four, like,

338
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.119
what were the advancements in like DNA or other forensic

339
00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:02.880
technology that made the difference. And that's just it. It

340
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.160
wasn't that, that wasn't how we got here. It was

341
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:11.279
the fact that some of that evidence they conducted additional

342
00:26:11.319 --> 00:26:14.759
forensic analysis. So we're talking about evidence that we've had,

343
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:22.000
we've always had, and then renewed and further investigative work.

344
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.559
So these are tools that we always had.

345
00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:28.799
Wow, and they just like let it go cold with

346
00:26:28.839 --> 00:26:29.680
all that evidence.

347
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:34.480
The tough thing is is that sometimes when they can't

348
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:39.799
quite gather enough evidence, this is what happens. But we

349
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:47.599
know that it happens for certain populations, certain types demographics

350
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:54.839
of victims more than others. And it's why this particular

351
00:26:55.119 --> 00:27:01.720
specialized unit is so important, Thank goodness. Yeah. The George

352
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.400
David case also highlights the challenges that can come with

353
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:12.039
investigations spanning multiple jurisdictions. George David was a Canadian indigenous

354
00:27:12.079 --> 00:27:16.119
man whose life extended across borders, but at the time

355
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.440
of his death he was living in Washington, where the

356
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:24.640
crime occurred. Elements of the case extended beyond a single location,

357
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:31.119
requiring coordination across state lines. Differences and resources, communication and

358
00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:36.480
investigative priorities can complicate that process, particularly in cases that

359
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:41.359
go cold. In situations like this, specialized units and renewed

360
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.880
collaboration can play a critical role in bringing long standing

361
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:54.519
investigations back into focus. So, while George was both a

362
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:58.400
resident of the state of Washington and someone who was

363
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.079
a victim of a crime in the state of Washington,

364
00:28:01.519 --> 00:28:05.359
his killer was arrested in a different jurisdiction. He was

365
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:10.400
originally a native of Canada, so imagine that he had

366
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:17.559
been a Canadian who was here short term. The complications

367
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.200
of working with you know, multiple jurisdictions and then you know,

368
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.720
like I said, his killer is arrested in Arkansas. That

369
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.759
I mean, the amount of coordination and collaboration that that

370
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:33.319
takes on the part of law enforcement is you know,

371
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.079
we yeah, we can't forget about that, and historically it

372
00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.559
is not something that has happened when it's this population.

373
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:47.839
And unfortunately, especially if crimes like these occur on reservation territory.

374
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.200
We've talked about it before with Highway twenty. It's so

375
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:57.920
upsetting it is. In examining the case, it is also

376
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:02.960
important to consider the historical context of Indigenous relations with

377
00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:09.319
law enforcement. Many Indigenous communities have experienced systemic neglect and

378
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:14.400
in some cases, direct harm from institutions that are supposed

379
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:20.839
to provide protection. This history can affect reporting, cooperation, and trust,

380
00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:25.880
all of which are critical components of effective investigations. The

381
00:29:25.920 --> 00:29:30.200
success of the MMIWP Cold Case Unit in this case

382
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:34.880
may contribute to rebuilding some of that trust, Although such

383
00:29:34.920 --> 00:29:39.759
efforts require sustained commitment over time. The unit's focus on

384
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:45.279
cultural competency and community engagement represents a step toward addressing

385
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:49.920
long standing gaps in the system. The role of advocacy

386
00:29:50.200 --> 00:29:54.680
cannot be overstated. Families of victims often play a critical

387
00:29:54.759 --> 00:29:58.680
role in maintaining public awareness and ensuring that cases are

388
00:29:58.720 --> 00:30:03.000
not forgotten. In the case of George David, statements from

389
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.880
his daughter and others helped keep attention on the investigation

390
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.319
and underscore the human impact of the crime. The sentencing

391
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:15.480
in December twenty twenty five marked a formal conclusion to

392
00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:19.119
the legal process, but it does not erase the years

393
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:24.359
during which the case remained unresolved. For many families, the

394
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.200
passage of time adds layers of complexity to the experience

395
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:32.559
of loss and justice. While a conviction can provide closure,

396
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.880
it does not fully address the emotional and cultural dimensions

397
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.720
of the crime. The George David case can be cited

398
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.640
as a model for how targeted initiatives can improve outcomes

399
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:49.759
in cases involving Indigenous victims. It demonstrates that with the

400
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:54.599
right combination of resources, expertise, and commitment, it is possible

401
00:30:55.480 --> 00:30:59.759
to achieve justice even after many years. At the same

402
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:04.480
time time, the case highlights the scale of the challenge.

403
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:08.960
There are many other cases that remain unsolved, both within

404
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:13.680
Washington State and across the broader region. The success of

405
00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:18.039
one investigation does not resolve the systemic issues that contribute

406
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:22.079
to the missing and murdered Indigenous women and people epidemic,

407
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:27.359
but it does provide a framework for future efforts. In

408
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.759
analyzing this case, it's difficult to maintain a balance between

409
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:37.200
recognizing the achievements of the investigation and acknowledging the broader context.

410
00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:41.880
The conviction represents the significant milestone, but it is also

411
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:45.960
part of an ongoing process of addressing disparities in how

412
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:51.359
cases are handled. The murder of George David represents a

413
00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:55.880
significant and deeply impactful case within the broader crisis of

414
00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.839
violence against Indigenous people, not only in the Position Northwest,

415
00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:06.440
but all over the world. George's work reflected generations of

416
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:12.440
Indigenous storytelling traditions, and his presence within the artistic and

417
00:32:12.519 --> 00:32:17.160
cultural community extended beyond the borders of any single state

418
00:32:17.319 --> 00:32:21.240
or nation. The story of George David is ultimately one

419
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.519
of both loss and resilience. It reflects the impact of

420
00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.559
violence on individuals and communities, as well as the potential

421
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:33.079
for change when systems are adapted to better meet the

422
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.000
needs of those they serve. For those studying or discussing

423
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:41.880
the case, that offers valuable insights into the intersection of culture, justice,

424
00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:46.799
and investigative practice. The Missing Indigenous Person's Toolkit is a

425
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:51.440
resource provided by the Washington State Missing and Murdered Indigenous

426
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:56.160
Women and People Task Force. The eighteen page document provides

427
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:01.359
instructions what to do immediately, action to take after reporting,

428
00:33:02.279 --> 00:33:04.960
next steps, and even how to use local and social

429
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.880
media to advance efforts in the case of a missing

430
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:09.000
loved one.

431
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:14.880
Oh wow, that seems like really valuable information to have,

432
00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:17.799
so like, families don't have to wait ten years, right

433
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:21.160
or longer to get shit done.

434
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:28.240
Yeah. I think we all understand the significance of this case,

435
00:33:28.359 --> 00:33:32.839
like kind of in a broader sense of just the

436
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:38.720
injustice that so many have faith in this population and

437
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:43.680
the you know, systemic challenges. But I don't think I've

438
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:48.440
really bottom lined it in a way that like fully

439
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:59.079
explains why this is so important. But this case, it's

440
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:06.480
the first time that Washington's MMIWP Cold Case unit has

441
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:12.679
helped secure charges in a homicide. Oh wow, because they

442
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.719
you know, we're established basically at twenty twenty three, and

443
00:34:18.280 --> 00:34:22.599
you know the time that it takes obviously to see

444
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:27.960
results in a cold case. I mean, it's actually, I

445
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:33.719
feel like a pretty remarkable turnaround. Yeah.

446
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:36.800
When you said that, like they were established and you

447
00:34:36.840 --> 00:34:39.840
said twenty twenty three, yeah, I was like, whoa, Okay,

448
00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:41.480
that is actually pretty good.

449
00:34:41.599 --> 00:34:45.760
Pretty fast when I came across this with this case,

450
00:34:45.880 --> 00:34:50.880
I just was like, Holy shit, Like I can't believe that.

451
00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:55.199
I mean, this is something that's happened obviously in recent months,

452
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.199
but I'm like, how am I just hearing about this now?

453
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.079
And I think it's just more of the same, right,

454
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.880
I mean, it's just like this super important thing that

455
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:11.400
has occurred. It's like a landmark thing, but nobody really

456
00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:15.000
is talking about it, and it's just kind of more

457
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:18.280
of the same in that respect, where like the reporting

458
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.760
isn't really like we're just not hearing about it, and

459
00:35:21.800 --> 00:35:26.880
I'm just so sick of that. Yeah, I've lost my

460
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:30.920
ability to heement. I didn't I didn't take enough time

461
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.559
to kind of make a script like this part of

462
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:40.760
it my sort of reaction to this like really momentous thing.

463
00:35:41.719 --> 00:35:44.280
I mean, I know that anybody that's listening is going

464
00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:48.400
to understand just like this significance because of the historical

465
00:35:48.519 --> 00:35:52.320
and cultural all of it. But the fact that like

466
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:56.280
this is the first it just just yeah, that's amazing.

467
00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.559
I'm so glad we're not doing video for this episode

468
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:04.639
because I just look, I look horrendous. If you're I mean,

469
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:09.599
if I sound not great because I have cried at

470
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:12.880
some points, just think how awful I must actually look,

471
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:18.440
it's really hard to look at her, you guys, but

472
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.800
that's amazing. I hope. I'm glad you're talking about it.

473
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:25.159
I'm glad I know about it now, because otherwise I

474
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.039
probably wouldn't, and maybe a lot of people listening wouldn't either.

475
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.719
But I hope it's the first of many that they help.

476
00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.679
I mean, it definitely feels like a very early positive

477
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:44.039
sign of of you know what's to come. I'd like

478
00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:47.159
to end by sharing some of the thoughts and reflections

479
00:36:47.400 --> 00:36:51.239
shared by those closest to George, a man who was

480
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:54.880
said to have been called Grandpa by roughly forty children

481
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:01.360
within his community. His daughter Maria, had two half finished

482
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:04.239
puppets he was working on near the time of his death.

483
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:09.280
In a statement she provided to the Washington Attorney General's office,

484
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:13.280
she said, Indian artwork is a way for us to

485
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:18.760
tell our stories, and his stories can no longer be told.

486
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:21.639
We will never be able to see any of my

487
00:37:21.719 --> 00:37:28.840
dad's artwork again. Tabatha Frank, a tribal youth advocate who

488
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:33.800
was with Maria at Alcorn sentencing, said Maria said she

489
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:37.440
felt relief. She thought it would be a cold case

490
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:41.039
and never be dealt with. She was stuck in that

491
00:37:41.199 --> 00:37:46.360
moment for nine years, so this is important to her

492
00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:47.719
healing journey.

493
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:53.199
Incredibly important, Like, oh my gosh, I can't even imagine

494
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:56.320
nine years and some people, I mean, some people are

495
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:57.079
in that forever.

496
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:04.360
Yeah, I mean happen you know, two people that are

497
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.920
victims of crime or the surviving loved ones of all

498
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.280
different backgrounds. But I you know, I think I can't

499
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.559
overstate how certain populations are just just disproportionately affected. And

500
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.679
there are so many people that have gone to their

501
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:25.800
graves not knowing what happened to their loved ones. Oh.

502
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.360
I did just have a thought.

503
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:30.719
You said the rapper was taken off of the what

504
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:32.199
was it a wrench or something?

505
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:36.239
Yeah, it was a pipe wrench, and that's what she used.

506
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.840
That she used the pipe wrench is the assumption. Yeah,

507
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:42.119
so that is interesting.

508
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:44.360
I was thinking, well, maybe I don't know, maybe if

509
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:49.239
she claimed it was like self defense or something, but like,

510
00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.119
why would you have time to take a wrapper off

511
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:51.960
of a pipe wrench?

512
00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:55.599
And when they say rapper on a pipe wrench, I

513
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.199
don't know exactly what that consists of because I don't

514
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:03.119
think of like tools that's having, like a rapper like

515
00:39:03.119 --> 00:39:05.960
if I buy a hammer, it doesn't come like shrink

516
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:08.679
wrapped or anything. Oh right, Yeah, I guess I don't

517
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:10.599
know what I was thinking. Maybe it was just but

518
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:14.679
maybe it was I mean, stranger things have happened. I

519
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:15.760
just I don't really know.

520
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:19.440
Or maybe it was just like in a bag or something,

521
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:24.119
or I mean, I don't know. That's I guess where

522
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.760
more of my questions are. Yeah, I wonder what was about?

523
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.679
Yeah, sort of these inane details that you're like, this

524
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:35.800
really doesn't matter, but I am curious because there's not

525
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.960
much else for there's really no other thread for me

526
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:45.880
to tug at. You know, well, let's do some taro.

527
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:49.400
Let's see what the cards have to say. Right, I'm

528
00:39:49.400 --> 00:39:52.119
gonna do this thread. Do you want to tell me

529
00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:54.519
like a side of the deck. Do you want me

530
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:58.000
to just run my fingers over them? Oh? Yeah, run

531
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:04.719
your fingers and I'll say stop, okay, okay stop. Oh

532
00:40:04.840 --> 00:40:09.559
this is interesting. It's such a bright, happy card and

533
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:13.679
bunny because it's for those of us that do celebrate

534
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:18.480
it was just easter. Oh it's a bunny funny. Yeah,

535
00:40:18.880 --> 00:40:19.199
it's like.

536
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:22.079
A bunny with like sunshine, like a sunshine halo around

537
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:23.039
the back of it too.

538
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:30.079
Yeah, so we drew the empress pictured here, this little bunnet.

539
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:35.159
It is a mountain cottontail. Okay, I'm going to read

540
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:44.519
you the poem. Okay. An enclosed earthen space, warm and dark, protected, hidden,

541
00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:49.119
enough room to kick a hind paw but not much more,

542
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:57.039
cradled and supported by surrounding earth, Sounds muffled by many layers. Safety,

543
00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:03.320
a store of nourishment, place to develop and grow, a warren,

544
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:09.760
a womb. Whoa what are it? I mean? Oh, I

545
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.719
don't want to say what I'm thinking. Are you thinking

546
00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:18.719
about the sofa bed? Yes, that was immediately And some

547
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.480
of these words like so specifically like match up to

548
00:41:23.239 --> 00:41:24.280
a bed, and.

549
00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.719
Like I know the poem is supposed to be about

550
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:31.519
like a safe a space, but like, oh my gosh,

551
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.599
the the wordings.

552
00:41:33.400 --> 00:41:38.079
Mm hmm, it's touching on something that like really freaks

553
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:42.960
me out about it because obviously George was already deceased.

554
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.880
He had asked at the point that he was, you know,

555
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:52.199
stuffed into this sofa bed. But there's something about that

556
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.119
being like it's enclosed, but like warm and dark is

557
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:00.719
some like those are things like everybody wants to be

558
00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:06.559
in general, Okay, in general, a warm room dark you

559
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:10.360
want it to be like conducive to sleep protected, but

560
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:14.960
the hidden part Yeah, enough room to kick a hind pop,

561
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:19.800
but not much more. I don't I mean cradled that.

562
00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.880
Yeah, it just gives a whole other meaning to this

563
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:26.880
little sweet poem when you're yeah, when you know what happened?

564
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:37.920
All right, So our keywords are creativity, feminine power, mature women, fertility,

565
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:47.079
and pleasure. Creativity though he was an artist, Yeah, yeah,

566
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:51.039
And I guess also when you think about art in

567
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:57.159
the context of like the confines of binary male female,

568
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:03.559
that like that whole construct our society or is something

569
00:43:03.639 --> 00:43:07.239
that largely is viewed as a much more feminine pursuit.

570
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:09.960
So maybe in a way that kind of makes sense.

571
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:12.599
You said he did totem poles and stuff, So I

572
00:43:12.639 --> 00:43:14.679
was thinking like maybe like a lot of his art

573
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:18.280
was nature oriented, like other nature.

574
00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:24.159
Yeah. Well, and I was gonna say, even even the fertility.

575
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:28.320
I feel like, in a way, like the fact that

576
00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:33.199
there were dozens of children that referred to him as Grandpa.

577
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:38.119
They were not like obviously his biological children, but obviously

578
00:43:38.119 --> 00:43:42.320
they were looking for more of a metaphorical or metaphysical

579
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:46.000
meaning in the context of a tarot reading, and to

580
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:49.519
me that speaks to like a fertility of just of

581
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:54.400
just life in the broader sense. Right. Yeah, I like

582
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:59.159
that the Empress symbolizes feminine power in the material world,

583
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:05.119
contrast to the High Priestess, who represents feminine spiritual power.

584
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:10.119
A card of beauty and creativity. Beauty and creativity there

585
00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:14.480
it is. The Empress is depicted as the universal mother

586
00:44:14.599 --> 00:44:20.519
who governs pro creation, nurturing the security and comforts of home,

587
00:44:21.039 --> 00:44:26.519
and domestic harmony. And it's funny to think about too that.

588
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.159
You know, people described him as someone who was just

589
00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:34.000
like almost like eternally optimistic, and his daughter actually kind

590
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:36.199
of had a really funny quote about how he just

591
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:41.760
like he had no time for drama. Oh. I love that.

592
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:46.920
She's usually shown as a mature female figure, sometimes seated

593
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:51.559
on a throne, sometimes in nature, surrounded by flowers and vegetation,

594
00:44:52.599 --> 00:45:01.079
indicating fruitfulness, fruitfulness like having forty grandkids. Yeah. The Empress

595
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:04.719
is linked to Venus, the goddess of love, beauty, and pleasure,

596
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:09.199
and some tarot decks include the astrological glyph for the

597
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:10.639
planet on this card.

598
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:13.679
It is, I mean like his art was fruitful too,

599
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:17.559
you know, like he just sold some art. I mean yeah,

600
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:20.719
the money it got stolen and right, God is like

601
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:25.880
cut coort by someone who is very greedy, but still

602
00:45:25.920 --> 00:45:28.840
like he just made some money off his art.

603
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:35.440
Yeah, okay, there's an extra excerpt. The Lady is the goddess,

604
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:41.920
the feminine energy behind manifest nature, the bestower of fertility

605
00:45:42.119 --> 00:45:47.840
and creativity, who brings all seeds to fruition. The Empress

606
00:45:48.000 --> 00:45:52.519
represents strong feminine energy and may describe a mother figure

607
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:59.000
or a mature, artistic slash creative person. Whether she rules

608
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:03.880
the home or business. She represents female authority. A card

609
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:09.079
of fertility, she signifies abundance of all kinds and shows

610
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:13.960
your capacity for nurturing, caring, and supporting others as well

611
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:14.920
as yourself.

612
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:19.039
That reminds me of the what was it called that

613
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:21.039
helped get the case solved?

614
00:46:21.639 --> 00:46:24.679
The MMIWP Cold Case Unit.

615
00:46:24.880 --> 00:46:27.000
Yes, I was like, there was too many letters and

616
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:28.039
I couldn't put it together.

617
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:29.960
It's a mouthful.

618
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:33.559
Yeah, it reminds me of that, Like they're going to

619
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.719
help people and it's going to be very bountiful.

620
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:42.840
I think. Yeah, sometimes this card refers to your own

621
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:48.119
mother in a man's reading, the Empress can encourage him

622
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:55.039
to recognize the feminine component in himself. Oh. In a

623
00:46:55.119 --> 00:47:00.119
reading about money, the Empress indicates good fortune and success. Yes,

624
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:04.599
you possess abundant resources and know how to use them productively.

625
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.280
She can also recommend joining resources with a partner or

626
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:14.079
group to increase financial gains. If the reading is about

627
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:18.320
your work, you're involved in a creative project and giving

628
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.880
it your all, and success is likely. She may show

629
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:25.400
that you've got things under control, or advise you to

630
00:47:25.440 --> 00:47:29.599
take charge and work congenially toward a common goal. The

631
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:34.239
emphasis message to you is find harmony, unite disparate factors,

632
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:39.880
and reconcile differences for the good of all, which is

633
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:44.000
super significant in this case. Obviously.

634
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:47.360
Yeah, I feel like that's kind of like what he

635
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:50.840
would want us to remember too, because you mentioned he was, yeah,

636
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.760
very optimistic, So I'm like, at first this card, I

637
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.559
was like, I don't know about this, but.

638
00:47:55.639 --> 00:47:58.159
Yeah, it's really hesitant.

639
00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.199
Yeah, it seems like what he would want out of this,

640
00:48:02.880 --> 00:48:03.920
you know, I think so too.

641
00:48:05.239 --> 00:48:08.880
In a reading about love, this card symbolizes a mature

642
00:48:08.960 --> 00:48:14.840
loving relationship based on mutual respect, trust, and affection. It

643
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:19.039
also indicates a powerful sexual connection. In some cases, the

644
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:22.199
empress may refer to a pregnancy or the desire for

645
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:26.480
a pregnancy. I don't know. I guess we can cut

646
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:30.159
this if it doesn't feel like it's relevant. But there's

647
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:36.360
another extra excerpt. It says, I, with a deeper instinct,

648
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:42.199
choose a man who compels my strength, who makes enormous

649
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.760
demands on me, who does not doubt my courage or

650
00:48:45.760 --> 00:48:49.800
my toughness, who does not believe me naive or innocent,

651
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.519
who has the courage to treat me like a woman.

652
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:56.480
Well, sweet, I don't know if it has anything to

653
00:48:56.519 --> 00:49:00.800
do with it, but yeah, I don't know either. It

654
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:05.360
is definitely interesting that this card is so like female

655
00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:10.119
oriented and it was a woman that killed him.

656
00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.800
Yeah. Actually, that's really interesting because obviously we know that

657
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:21.920
the vast majority of violent crimes are perpetrated by men.

658
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:28.199
Sorry not sorry, facts are facts. Yeah, I don't know.

659
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.599
The other part that I feel like is really sad

660
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.800
about this case. I had this thought that and it

661
00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:37.119
wouldn't be the first time that I've heard kind of

662
00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:43.239
a sentiment like this. But I feel like sometimes in

663
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:52.840
particular marginalized communities, when a crime is perpetrated by a

664
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:57.760
member of that community. So Tina was a member of

665
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:05.480
a different Bible affiliation, different different tribal community, but the

666
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:10.920
man that she killed was also Native. Wow. I feel

667
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.679
like there can be a tendency to be like, oh

668
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.920
well that, you know, just an attitude of like, oh,

669
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:20.079
these people are just killing each other, like like let

670
00:50:20.119 --> 00:50:25.039
him at it? Who cares? Almost right? Yeah? Very gross,

671
00:50:25.079 --> 00:50:28.239
but like in a way I don't agree with that. Yeah,

672
00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.519
but like in a way, there can be this attitude

673
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:35.039
of like, well, like why is that my problem? Or like, well,

674
00:50:35.199 --> 00:50:38.920
that we're not doing anything wrong. They're just killing each

675
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:41.480
other and blah blah blah. And we kill each other

676
00:50:41.519 --> 00:50:46.280
all the time, right, I mean people hurt other people

677
00:50:46.559 --> 00:50:51.719
and they're you know, national origin, their you know, affiliation

678
00:50:51.920 --> 00:50:56.920
with any other type of group what like. Sometimes that

679
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:03.519
doesn't necessarily have the significance. But I guess what I'm

680
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.599
struggling to like sort of put into words is that

681
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:11.559
you know, people say like, oh well, and you hear

682
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:15.119
it a lot about like the black community, Oh well,

683
00:51:15.480 --> 00:51:18.440
that's just like gang members, you know, killing each other,

684
00:51:18.519 --> 00:51:22.480
and you know that whatever shitty thing they're gonna say.

685
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:27.679
But it's like that is a direct result of these

686
00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:32.599
horrible systemic things that we have done to marginalize these communities,

687
00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:36.760
and they are all trapped in often like you know,

688
00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:44.559
these dilapidated school systems and like failing dying communities, and

689
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.719
like the things that people will do to try to

690
00:51:48.840 --> 00:51:56.800
survive can be horrific and incredibly sad. But it's like

691
00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:02.360
this is part of like what our system has done

692
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:08.000
to them. Does that make sense? Makes a sense? You're

693
00:52:08.079 --> 00:52:12.800
trapped And I've I've heard a lot of conversations where

694
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.079
sort of this this premise of like crab in a

695
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:21.320
bucket has come up. And the thing about crabs in

696
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.559
a bucket is that if they start to see one

697
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:29.400
of them that is, you know, attempting to or about

698
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.760
to escape, they will drag them back down. Damn crabs

699
00:52:33.800 --> 00:52:38.320
are fucked. Yeah, it's kind of crazy, but it's like

700
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:42.440
and not that like that is the mentality of like

701
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:46.079
Tina or of anybody else like in a in this

702
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:50.519
situation or like a similar situation per se. But it

703
00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:54.440
is sort of this, like you are trapped by the

704
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:58.280
system that has put you. Does that make sense? Looks

705
00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:03.280
like yeah, like the system just reinforces like it's just

706
00:53:03.320 --> 00:53:07.679
this vicious cycle of like, you know, you're in a

707
00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:11.320
uh you know, a community where like you don't have resources.

708
00:53:11.400 --> 00:53:15.320
You know, people maybe don't have access to education, or

709
00:53:16.360 --> 00:53:22.719
you know, they're housing options are less than ideal. Uh,

710
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:26.960
you know, it's lower income, like all of these different things.

711
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:30.239
You know, you face violence at the hands of law enforcement,

712
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:35.920
whatever it is, and it just kind of keeps the

713
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:41.159
wheel turning on this like perpetual cycle of just like

714
00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:45.880
being oppressed, and it's in a way like it's it

715
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:48.039
becomes like almost inescapable.

716
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:53.519
I just I don't know, Oh, that sounds like the inescapable,

717
00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:55.760
like being stuck.

718
00:53:56.760 --> 00:53:58.599
Oh my god. Yeah.

719
00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:00.920
Then, and I'm thinking of the cave in the in

720
00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:02.639
the story, the little cave.

721
00:54:03.320 --> 00:54:06.519
That's awful. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like all

722
00:54:06.559 --> 00:54:08.719
of that was just like way too many words to

723
00:54:08.719 --> 00:54:12.639
try to explain something that's just like it's like we

724
00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.360
all kind of in a way inherently understand it, but

725
00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:19.280
it's hard to put it into words that explains it

726
00:54:19.360 --> 00:54:25.719
without like being condescending or offensive in some way, or

727
00:54:25.920 --> 00:54:30.840
making assumptions about like people that you don't necessarily have

728
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:35.960
like a direct lived experience that they do if that

729
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:40.440
makes sense. It's like you're kind of you're you're basing

730
00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:44.719
sort of these like ideas and principles off of like

731
00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:49.400
things that you like observed but like thirdhand or you know,

732
00:54:50.239 --> 00:54:53.239
it's like because I'm I'm not living on a reservation

733
00:54:54.039 --> 00:54:57.000
and basing all of the challenges that they do and

734
00:54:57.239 --> 00:55:00.119
and not that you know, George also wasn't living on

735
00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.119
res but it's like it extends beyond that, even when

736
00:55:04.119 --> 00:55:07.519
you're not somebody who's native that's living on the res

737
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:15.000
like your heritage and all of the horrific like oppressive

738
00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:19.719
forces that have affected these communities for hundreds of years,

739
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:22.639
like that still follows them. It just makes me so sad.

740
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:25.840
Thanks for making us all sad. Kalin again, once again,

741
00:55:26.440 --> 00:55:32.039
congrats to you. But nobody has really talked about this case.

742
00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:34.760
I came. I came across it because I was literally

743
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:40.199
looking for cases that are like really significant but that

744
00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:44.960
like haven't had fifty thousand podcasts talk about them, and

745
00:55:45.039 --> 00:55:50.679
like are underreported in like you know, traditional news sources

746
00:55:50.760 --> 00:55:54.199
and stuff. And I was like, I can't believe it.

747
00:55:54.360 --> 00:55:57.400
I'm so excited to talk about this case because it

748
00:55:57.440 --> 00:56:00.320
is so important, but I will be so excited if

749
00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:02.480
we get to be like one of the you know,

750
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:06.960
first podcasts in our genre and our niche that talks

751
00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:10.800
about it and like brings this into kind of consciousness

752
00:56:10.800 --> 00:56:14.719
for people. I mean, I feel like I'm overplaying this

753
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:18.800
perfic of our show, but I'm like, I want people

754
00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:21.840
to know about this, and I just you know, it's

755
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.440
exciting to think that. It's like, you know, you can

756
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:28.159
help to spread sort of awareness and like this this

757
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:31.639
is so it's so fucking huge. It is. I might

758
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:35.159
be overselling our significance in relation to it, but I can't.

759
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:40.079
I can't possibly oversell how important and how significant like

760
00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:44.079
this case and you know what's happened here, like this

761
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.599
development with the cold case unit. Like, I'm not over

762
00:56:47.760 --> 00:56:52.079
selling that. This is fucking huge. Yeah, that's amazing. It's

763
00:56:52.199 --> 00:56:56.280
like the first of many building blocks that everybody needs

764
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:00.000
to be able to build trust between these marginalized community

765
00:57:00.480 --> 00:57:03.960
and like I said, the people that are, you know,

766
00:57:04.119 --> 00:57:10.440
in these positions specifically to protect and traditionally maybe have

767
00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:13.440
not done that in every case when it comes to

768
00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:16.760
these communities. It's the first thing that I've that I've

769
00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:20.039
heard in the news in a long time that actually

770
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:25.360
makes me feel hopeful for the future. So we need

771
00:57:25.400 --> 00:57:28.119
more of that. Yeah. It just feels like, even though

772
00:57:28.159 --> 00:57:31.199
it's really really sad, it just it feels like it's

773
00:57:31.239 --> 00:57:35.760
important to know about the good things that are happening

774
00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:36.840
in the world right now.

775
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.280
So you brought us down and then you also brought

776
00:57:40.360 --> 00:57:42.599
us up. Okay, you're forgiven.

777
00:57:43.440 --> 00:57:46.039
Yeah. It's like when you go uh to boot camp

778
00:57:46.159 --> 00:57:48.599
and they break you down to build you back up.

779
00:57:49.639 --> 00:57:55.480
That's exactly what Caitlin is like. She's just like boot camp. Yeah,

780
00:57:55.599 --> 00:57:59.880
I feel like that explains a lot. I think that

781
00:58:00.280 --> 00:58:02.360
I think that that's all we got today.

782
00:58:03.239 --> 00:58:05.119
I don't think I could handle any more bad news

783
00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:07.400
or good news. So you know what, I'm crept out.

784
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.199
No news is good news. Yeah, just no more, no more.

785
00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:17.559
All done. We're done for today. All right? Should we

786
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:21.440
say goodbye to the people, Yeah, let's do it. Have

787
00:58:21.519 --> 00:58:27.880
a creepy ass day. We'll see you next Thursday. Public

788
00:58:27.920 --> 00:58:31.760
statements from family members emphasize not only the loss of

789
00:58:31.800 --> 00:58:38.199
a loved one. Are you hearing the squeaky toy scharlet, Hey,