March 5, 2026

The Nesbitt Homestead Murders | Hood River, Oregon

The Nesbitt Homestead Murders | Hood River, Oregon
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In the early 1900s, the Hood River Valley was still frontier country. Homesteads were scattered across rugged land, neighbors lived miles apart, and life revolved around routine and survival.

When that routine suddenly stopped - others took notice.  

Louisa Nesbitt and her daughter Alma vanished from their rural homestead without warning. At first, neighbors assumed the women had simply left the valley. But as time passed with no word from either of them, suspicion began to grow.

What followed would become one of Oregon’s most unusual early murder cases—one that tested the limits of the legal system and left a mystery that still lingers in the Pacific Northwest today.

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Sometime in late nineteen hundred, Louisa and Alma Nesbit disappeared.

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Their absence was discovered not through a dramatic event, but

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through silence, the absence of routine activity that normally defined

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life on a homestead. No one saw smoke from their chimney,

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no one saw them in town, no one observed movement

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around their property. Eventually, neighbors began investigating. What they found

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raised alarm. Their home and land appeared abandoned. Daily life

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had stopped abruptly. Hi, Cassie, Hi, Caitlin, Hi, creepy people. Hello,

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This is PNW Hansen Homicides, where we chat about true crime,

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the paranormal and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest

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or the pan w if Yon knife nasty and has

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been well established. Clearly you must be. I smell it

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from here. I smell you're nasty from here. Oh boy, okay,

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I don't know that we had to associate like a

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smelliness with it, but I didn't. It was a bad smell.

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Nasty means great. Okay, all right, that's part. That's the

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that's the lore we want to go with. All right.

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We also do a little taro reading at the end

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of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight

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into our topic, just a yes, well that we do

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for yeah, because we're fun witches.

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Yeah, and which is not a bad word.

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Correct. Today I'm feeling very much like a task master

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witch because we're trying to pre record a little bit

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because next weekend I'm on a pilgrimage to procure my puppy.

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I want to squeal so bad, but I know nobody

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wants that another years. Yeah, probably not, probably not, But

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you can imagine the squealing, the internal squealing that's happening

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right now.

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Yeah, exactly, just you fill in the blank. I'm sure

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we've squealed before when we hadn't thought better of it. So, yeah,

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that's true.

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I've probably got something to work with. I'm so excited,

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I know, all right.

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In rural Oregon at the turn of the twentieth century,

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in many regards, there was a certain quiet, uneasy tension,

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the sense that people depended on one another that also

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feared one another. The Hood River Valley was still a

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developing agricultural community, more frontier than town, while the Columbia

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River Gorge had long served as a transportation corridor. But

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orchards now were beginning to spread across the hillside. Timber

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stands pressed against newly cleared homesteads coming on up.

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Yeah, woodn't fruit wooden freeze. I think of orchards. That's

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like fruit, right, Yeah, if it could be anything.

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No, orchards, Yeah, I think orchards specifically, like A refers

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to fruit trees. I could be rong, okay, cool, I

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don't know. The roads were rough and farms were distant

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from one another. Many residents were homesteaders or small farmers,

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trying to build stable lives from rugged land. Families relied

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heavily on routine tending livestock, cutting wood, hauling water, and

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preparing food stores to survive the winter month. Because and

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I don't think about this nearly enough when we talk

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about different points in history. They didn't have refrigerators. Yeah,

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meal prepping is already enough of a challenge for me.

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I can't really wrap my head around. Like they had

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to make jerky. Yeah, I remember reading about this in

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Little House on the Prairie that like you ate a

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lot of jerky meat, Yeah, a lot of jerky. Or

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there was a lot of like dried fruit and things

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like that, or canning depending on you know what it was.

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Sounds like an absolute nightmare, like what happens when you

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just you know, it's like Thursday and you just want

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it to be Taco Tuesday. But there's going to kill

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a cow. Yeah, there's nothing freus. News traveled slowly unless

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something serious happened, and when it did, everyone knew. In

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the winter of nineteen hundred, something serious did happen when

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two women vanished from their homestead. Their absence would ignite

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suspicion and divide a community. Louisa Nesbitt and her daughter

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Alma lived together on a homestead in the Hood River area.

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Like many rural women of the era, their lives revolved

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around domestic labor, farm maintenance, and survival work that rarely

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entered official records, but to find frontier existence. Child wives, yeah,

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the og Yeah. Their household was small but stable, and

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they were part of the loose social network that connected

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rural communities in the valley. Nothing about their lives suggested

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violence or danger, I guess, other than you know, just

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being in the middle of nowhere where anybody could happen

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upon your little lovely homestead any given moment, even in

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the wild. Wow list right, Yeah, quite literally. In frontier communities,

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relationships between neighbors could be complicated. Land disputes, financial struggles,

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and personal conflicts were not uncommon, especially in areas where

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legal boundaries and property lines were still being formalized, because

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this is when you could just be like, I got

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a dollar and I want those ones, all those acres.

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Yeah yeah, you could have it, as long as you

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didn't live there originally, right.

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Right, right, yeah, that little mitigating circumstance, if you will.

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Sometime in late nineteen hundred, Luisa and Alma Nesbit disappeared.

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Their absence was discovered not through a dramatic event, but

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through silence, the absence of routine activity that normally defined

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life on a homestead. No one saw smoke from their chimney,

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no one saw them in town, no one observed movement

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around their property. Eventually, neighbors began investigating what they found

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raised alarm. Their home and land appeared abandoned. Daily life

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had stopped abruptly. Signs suggested that women had not left voluntarily,

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though nothing immediately confirmed any kind of violence. In an

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era without modern investigative tools, disappearance alone could quickly become

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evidence of wrongdoing suspicion began to grow.

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You sure they didn't just run away, right, Yeah, they

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just decided, you know what, it's just really not for me. No,

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But like when you have your own your own land

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and house, and seems odd.

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The thing about it is, it's it's it's one thing

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to run away when there's a possibility of just catching

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an uber and going wherever you want from there, when

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you're literally hundreds, if not thousands of miles away from

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you know, members of your family or you know, civilization,

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it seems a little bit less likely. And here's the

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thing too, Like a lot of what I read talked

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about just how much Alma in particular had really romanticized

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coming out west, and how excited she was at the

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idea the possibility of like interacting with natives in the area,

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even like everything about like the Frontier and the wild

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West was really just like fascinating to her. She just

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was so excited to get out here. Wow. So the

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idea of abandoning everything that she had tried to build

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out here with her mother just doesn't It doesn't really

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track attention soon turned toward and neighboring man as it does.

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Initially nothing about Williams publicly marked him as dangerous. He

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was simply part of the community. That perception would change quickly.

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His proximity to the Nesbit property made him impossible to ignore,

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but as it happens, proximity was far from his only

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tie to the Nesbit women. H Oh, yeah, it's not

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great scandal. Born January seventeenth, eighteen fifty seven in Sambra, Ontario,

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Daniel Norman Williams was hardly a gentleman, even by the

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standard of the era. Pretty low. Yeah, the bar was

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truly in free fall through all nine circles of Hell.

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You said it way better than me. Yeah, well I

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had some time to think about it, so.

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Yeah, you did write this.

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Yeah, truly my least favorite Canadian. That's hard to do,

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you know, but every once in a while you find

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a you find one that ego I don't know. I

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don't know about him. I don't know about a boot

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about a boot. I feel like it's whenever I hear

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someone from Canada talking and like you pick up the accent,

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they're never actually saying a boot. It's a little bit

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softer than that.

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Yeah, yeah, let's not offend our friend Clint from Canada

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by trying to do his accent well.

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And I think of Alicia too. I'm like, uh, Alisha,

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you're you're a pod bffe so Eddie, who's all better

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muzzle this lady before she In eighteen ninety four, he

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was released from a Nebraska penitentiary after serving three years

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for assaulting and nearly killing his sister in law. That

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he ended up in Colwell, Iowa, where he met his

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lovely lady. And I just damn, it just would have

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been so much better off never meeting a man, you

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know usually yeahh then thirty one year old Almond Nesbit. Whoo,

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that's that's their little meet cute.

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Yeah, I bet he didn't tell her about how he

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assaulted his sister in law.

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You know, I have to imagine probably not. I'm gonna

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go with no.

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Did it say why he did? Which would he? She like,

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wasn't into sleeping with him because it's like her brother in.

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Law or what? You know, It's unclear. It's unclear. Actually

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I didn't really find anything like. That's a pretty good guest. Yeah,

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I feel like that, you know, given the time and

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and just the madness of it all. But Alma joined

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Williams fur their West in Oregon in eighteen ninety nine.

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There the pair claimed adjoining homestead claims about twenty miles

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outside of the river.

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Can we unjoin?

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Please? Right, I'd like to consciously unadjoin. On July twenty fifth,

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eighteen ninety nine, they were secretly married in Vancouver, Washington.

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Why was it a secret? Put a pin in that? Okay.

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At the time, neighboring Washington State's marriage laws were apparently

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less restrictive, which was handy seeing as mister Williams was

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apparently already married to an Oregon woman in Defer, shortly

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before Alma joined him in Oregon. So they meet after

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he's released from prison, and they're like, oh, love you

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so much, and he takes off for Oregon. She joins

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him out there in I don't know, it's it's unclear

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the exact amount of time, but it's like, I think

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roughly maybe a year maybe a little bit less that

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they are separated and he literally marries some other broad Wow,

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which kind of rude. Couldn't get officially divorced or I

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don't think that he was really concerned about bothering with that.

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I you know, I just I think that he had

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so many other things.

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That he was worried about.

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By October, her mother, Louisa, then in her late sixties,

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had joined Alma in Oregon. On March eighth, nineteen hundred,

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it was a stormy night as the trio boarded a

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Portland train for Hood River. Upon arrival that evening, Williams

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rented a wagon and two horse team from the Fashion

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Livery Stables. It sounds so fancy, It sounds so fancy,

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so fancy, but it's me, you said, Just to be clear,

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it's it's just stables. That's just where you rent your horses,

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and and the buggies for the horses anyway, and then

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they headed to their homestead. That was the last time

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either woman was seen alive. But the fashion Stables were

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sounding so good. I know, it was really sounding promising.

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Months later, but long before the fate of the Nesbit

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women would come to light, Williams encountered some issues within

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his plot, because of course there's there's a plot afoot,

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I'm sure. Well, I mean a man was involved, so

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you knew it was gonna get mad.

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Doesn't mean it's a good plot, Yeah, yeah, no, they

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just always be plotting, right, And you know how they

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say like and the plot thickens.

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It's like it actually kept getting thinner.

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And the plot limpens.

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Like literally the plot was mortally wounded. You see, marriage

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did not give him the right to Almah's land, given

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the era. I honestly found that surprising because I just

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I would have assumed their marriage would have automatically made

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him the default owner of any of her worldly holdings. Yeah, historically,

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that's been my understanding of how things work. Maybe she

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had a prenup. Yeah, yeah, maybe since the marriage was secret.

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I you know, I tend to doubt it, but anything's possible.

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So I just it's very strange because I feel like

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that's the logic behind a lot of fathers being adamantly

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opposed to, you know, certain matches for their daughters, because

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the justification is that, like, this is the person that's

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gonna have to take care of you. Anything that you

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inherit from me, that becomes his property. H Yeah. So

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I don't know why in this situation, you know, he

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wasn't automatically like the you.

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Know, maybe because they weren't married in Oregon. I don't know,

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maybe that's it.

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I have no idea, and I just I just you know,

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I was like, listen, there's a lot here. That's probably

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not the thread that I'm gonna pull at this time.

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But you can only own one of your wife's properties.

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Well, actually that you know, it's funny you say that.

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00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:36.720
It's funny, you say, oh, bad luck for Williams. But

229
00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.879
worse still was the fact that his house and barn

230
00:16:40.440 --> 00:16:44.279
had both been mistakenly built on almost land.

231
00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:49.720
Claim mistakenly huh hmm, interesting.

232
00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:51.639
Which I don't I don't know how you. I don't

233
00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:52.360
know how you do that.

234
00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.799
Uh yeah, because he thought he would just own it.

235
00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:58.399
So he was like, well, I'll put it anywhere I want, right, you.

236
00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:04.119
Know, maybe maybe I I just feel like it's really

237
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:11.880
interesting to watch really devious and yet terribly mediocre or

238
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:18.839
underperforming men not have you know, the follow through to

239
00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:21.599
just like, I mean, maybe you should just at least

240
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.559
make sure that like your house is actually your house

241
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:28.640
because you built it on your land. Yeah, big strong

242
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:34.559
man built couch. He just a hat rack. Seriously. I

243
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:36.799
just was like, you cannot make this up. You are

244
00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:43.759
so dumb. Oh AnyWho. Still, he was determined to take

245
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:48.160
these lemons and make himself some lemonade, so he forged

246
00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:53.400
almost signature on the required relinquishment document before presenting it

247
00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:57.119
to the Land Office on June twenty third, nineteen hundred.

248
00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.559
The clerk, however, was not fooled by the apparently obvious

249
00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:08.960
forgery because I guess they weren't born yesterday, and as

250
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:13.319
a result, the federal court issued an indictment for Williams

251
00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:14.440
based on the forgery.

252
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:18.720
Oh shit, Yeah, I wonder how they knew, Like, did

253
00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.960
he just completely not even try to change his handwriting or.

254
00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:27.000
I you know, I guess from from everything that I read,

255
00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:31.640
it was it was him apparently making a good faith

256
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:36.160
attempt at forging her signature, which honestly makes it worse. Like,

257
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:42.880
so you were trying and it just turned out that badly? Wow, Okay,

258
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:47.000
where to begin with that? Just be better?

259
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:49.799
You know. I bet he tried a bunch of times

260
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:53.000
and like kept scribbling it out right, I don't you know.

261
00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.720
I think he had spent some time practicing it before

262
00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.319
he actually completed this signature on the form. It was

263
00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:04.720
on the back of the paper. I don't think it

264
00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.279
was that obvious, but it does it Like it just

265
00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.240
begs so many questions. Yeah, and I'm just really picturing

266
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.359
all of like it's a very three stooges, and he's

267
00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.079
all three of them in my mind.

268
00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:20.119
No.

269
00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:24.559
I mean, I guess for somebody that actually has a

270
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:29.240
homestead and they have like a land claim, they actually

271
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:35.720
have a signature of record from the Yeah, so they

272
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:37.720
were able to compare it and they were like, well,

273
00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:41.880
this is very clearly fake. This is this is na

274
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:42.960
her signature.

275
00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:44.880
Yeah, which, good.

276
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.519
Luck doing that today because mine.

277
00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:50.519
Is just like we're I don't think signatures mean shit today, really,

278
00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.039
I mean, I don't know some people actually try.

279
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.440
Yeah. I feel like at this point I would almost

280
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:02.839
rather do like an electronic sickn nature for any type

281
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.119
of legal document, because they're typically like there's like a

282
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.200
little watermark and it shows like date time, you know.

283
00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:14.759
It does like the little curly cute letters for you,

284
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:18.759
you know, the cursive, but it also it spells out

285
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.920
you know, your full you know, first and last, you know,

286
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.960
legal name, And I just feel like it just feels

287
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.799
more legit for a lot of things. But they didn't

288
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:31.359
ask me back then, and they're not asking me now.

289
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:37.440
Just my two cents. This alone didn't offer any immediate

290
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.960
answers regarding the disappearance of Alma and Louisa. But you

291
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.200
know what they say about patients being a virtue, But

292
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:50.240
it's a virtue, I guess, yeah. Fucking annoying as shit,

293
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.799
but that's that's what they say. So in early nineteen

294
00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:59.000
oh four, George Nesbitt arrived in Oregon to investigate the

295
00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.720
disappearance of his mother and sister. He had stayed in

296
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:08.200
contact with the women through numerous letters that sent frequently

297
00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:12.000
back and forth. Then in March of nineteen hundred, he

298
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:16.920
had received what would be the final letter. It had

299
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.480
been written from a rooming house on Grand Avenue in

300
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:25.880
Portland and stated they were returning home to Iowa, though

301
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.079
no reason was given for their departure from the homestead.

302
00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:32.799
So it's a little bit of a mystery in terms

303
00:21:32.839 --> 00:21:38.160
of why they were deciding to return home. They certainly

304
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:43.359
were not just running away, yeah, but they had decided

305
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:48.000
to leave. So, I mean, she married this man in secret.

306
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:52.480
They have these adjoining plots, and they've built a home

307
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.880
and a life apparently not living together but whatever, and

308
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:03.759
then decides, I, you know, we're not going to stay weird. Weird.

309
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:06.319
There's a number of reasons why that could be. I

310
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:09.359
feel like it's because of this man. Yeah, I do

311
00:22:09.480 --> 00:22:14.519
have some follow up questions for the man. Yeah. When

312
00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:17.559
he arrived in Hode River, he was directed to the

313
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:23.160
fashion Livery Stables and arranged with the proprietor Bert Straanahan

314
00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.960
for a horse and buggy to take him to do

315
00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:32.559
a little prospecting and prospecting, like at least in kind

316
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:37.759
of this time period. Typically it refers to like prospecting,

317
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:40.720
like you know, they're they're panning for gold, is kind

318
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:42.319
of the that's the thing, That's what.

319
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.440
I thought, Yeah, which is odd.

320
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:49.839
Maybe it's just his excuse to like go look around.

321
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:55.519
I don't know, interesting what a pinon? That? So many pins? Well? Right,

322
00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:01.160
I know what is this pinterest? While Stranahan found this

323
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:04.400
odd as he'd never heard of any gold in the

324
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.799
Ranching Valley, he obliged the man that had introduced himself

325
00:23:08.839 --> 00:23:13.960
as mister Jackson. So this is George Nesbit saying hello,

326
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:18.039
I am mister Jackson, and I will be prospecting in

327
00:23:18.119 --> 00:23:22.480
a place where historically gold has not frequently been discovered.

328
00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:28.200
Did he say, mister Jackson, if you're nasty, No, I

329
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:36.319
think he said, Amphaie. When he ventured onto the property

330
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:41.920
formerly occupied by Norman Williams. He quickly began working digging

331
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:46.759
near the clearly abandoned house and barn. Eventually he moved

332
00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:52.440
on to the henhouse. There he discovered bloody gunnysacks, long

333
00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:55.559
strands of silver hair still attached.

334
00:23:55.960 --> 00:24:01.359
Oh, I don't like that. Did miss have gray hair?

335
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:04.480
However? Did you know?

336
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:08.680
I just put yeah, I put blood and hair together,

337
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:12.559
and yeah, blood and hair and missing people together.

338
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:18.400
It was after this discovery that George finally leveled with

339
00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:21.839
Bert about his real identity and why he had come

340
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:25.200
to Hood River, because I think at that point he,

341
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.079
I guess figured the jig was up, even though it

342
00:24:28.119 --> 00:24:31.599
was never really up. Yeah, it was never up and running,

343
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:36.279
and now it was coming down. The time was up,

344
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:40.039
that all of that was over it did it?

345
00:24:40.079 --> 00:24:42.359
Is smart of him, though, not to say why he

346
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.160
was really there, because then you know, news will travel,

347
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.440
someone sniffing around and then they'll clean up all the evidence.

348
00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:51.799
Exactly exactly, like he has no idea who he can

349
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:56.839
trust here. I mean, his freaking sister and mom are missing.

350
00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:01.440
They yeah, I mean, on the face of it, I

351
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.359
was kind of like, why did he give a fake

352
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.000
name and why was he so secretive about it? But

353
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:11.160
it makes complete sense. He's obvious than what's his bud? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

354
00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:17.839
Norman Hill. Based on examination of the gunnysack evidence by

355
00:25:17.880 --> 00:25:23.680
a surprising future key expert witness, the Wasco County Grand

356
00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.519
Jury issued an indictment against Williams for first degree murder.

357
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.960
He was arrested in Bellingham, Washington, where he had been

358
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:39.400
working at a sawmill and living with yet another new woman. Oh,

359
00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:42.680
my goodness, can't keep it in his pants. This man,

360
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.640
I literally my exact thought, cannot keep it in his parents,

361
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.920
this one just He was escorted back to Hood River,

362
00:25:52.079 --> 00:25:54.799
where he tried to explain that he had driven both

363
00:25:54.839 --> 00:25:58.720
women to the train station on the morning of March ninth,

364
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:02.559
nineteen hundred, and he had nothing to do with their

365
00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:04.160
unexplained disappearance.

366
00:26:05.200 --> 00:26:07.359
I mean, they could have gotten picked up by somebody else,

367
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.559
but yeah.

368
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.079
However, by this time, it was reportedly revealed that he

369
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.920
was still married to a wife in Nebraska, and that

370
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:21.119
at least two of his six wives had died of

371
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:28.119
some manner of poison. No, some sources said three of

372
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.200
his previous wives.

373
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:30.640
Oh.

374
00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:34.160
He was held in the Wasco County jail on a

375
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:38.279
ten thousand dollars bond, which is equivalent to over three

376
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:42.599
hundred and sixty thousand dollars today. It's a pretty good amount.

377
00:26:43.240 --> 00:26:46.079
This is a good amount. It's a good amount. It's

378
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:49.599
an amount that says we would prefer for you to

379
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:53.359
stay here. Yeah, actually, don't worry. We're going to take

380
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:57.759
care of your accommodations and your meals. The case quickly

381
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:02.079
became entangled with a legal con that would define its legacy.

382
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.759
Corpus delicti. The Latin phrase means body of the crime,

383
00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.519
and in legal terms, it refers to the requirement the

384
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:16.240
prosecutors prove a crime actually occurred before someone can be

385
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:21.720
convicted of committing it. Okay, I mean makes sense. Yeah,

386
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.799
necessary and reasonable as this standard is within the legal system,

387
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:30.799
it's also the reason the phrase no body, no crime

388
00:27:31.480 --> 00:27:35.640
exists in the public consciousness, and you know, is a

389
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:40.000
I have to imagine. I know of at least one song,

390
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:45.440
but I'm sure there are many others by missus Taylor Swift. Yes,

391
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:49.000
although if you think about it, I think Dixie Chicks

392
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.359
Earle had to die. I feel like it kind of

393
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.640
it doesn't come out and say no body, no crime

394
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:58.799
like in those specific words, but they let them real, well,

395
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:04.359
but it's there. Yeah. Of course, strictly speaking, it's not

396
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:10.000
exactly accurate to say nobody, no crime, right, but certainly

397
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:15.440
no body. Homicides present unique challenges even today, and certainly

398
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.920
at that point in history, you weren't getting a lot

399
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:23.359
of murder convictions when they didn't have a body, because

400
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:27.319
it is so plausible, especially back then, so like you

401
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.759
can be like, oh, let's just jump on Facebook and

402
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.480
see maybe you know, yeah, hit her up and see

403
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:37.920
if she just moved back home. Traditionally, murder cases relied

404
00:28:38.000 --> 00:28:41.720
heavily on the discovery of a victim's body. Without it,

405
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:46.559
proving death could be extremely difficult. The Nesbit case forced

406
00:28:46.640 --> 00:28:51.119
Oregon courts to confront a difficult question. Could someone be

407
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.720
convicted of murder when the victims had never been found?

408
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:01.480
Prosecutors believed the answer was yes. Deputy disc Attorney Fred

409
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:06.359
Wilson and George Nesbitt continued working to gather additional evidence

410
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:10.160
and witness statements for the case. They returned to the

411
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.680
rooming house on Grand in Portland, where the women had

412
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:17.119
stayed and their last letter to George had been written.

413
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:25.440
Now at this point, Fred Wilson was acting as a detective.

414
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:29.240
I don't know that he had officially been named the

415
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:33.440
deputy district attorney yet, but either way, this guy's all

416
00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:37.079
over the place. He's like, I'm a lawyer, I'm a detective.

417
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:40.720
He's like, you know, jack of all trades and seems

418
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:42.519
like kind of a master of all of them.

419
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.519
I feel like they probably didn't have enough people, like

420
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:47.880
one person had to do multiple jobs.

421
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:53.079
Yeah, I mean maybe maybe. Yeah. I like to envision it,

422
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:57.519
and this is probably just a little bit like applying

423
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.440
too much of a modern lens. I like to think

424
00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:04.240
of it as like kind of like that guy in

425
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.039
Law and Order SBU who was working as a detective

426
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.039
and then he was going to like law school at night,

427
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:16.720
and then he becomes one of the prosecutors. Oh, that's

428
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:20.160
what I'm picturing, Like, that's Fred Wilson for me forever. Now,

429
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:25.480
So what are you gonna do? The owner, Henry D. Winters,

430
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.599
kept and retained very detailed records, which I have to

431
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.720
say just doesn't seem like something that would be common

432
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.519
for the time. So thank goodness, yeah, but thank goodness,

433
00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:43.079
George was able to identify almost signature on the register

434
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:46.880
for the date of their stay, verifying this detail in

435
00:30:46.920 --> 00:30:51.200
the timeline, so they knew specifically this is where their

436
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:55.160
last letter was sent from. We know that, like they

437
00:30:55.200 --> 00:30:59.400
definitely did make it to this rooming house. They stayed

438
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:05.160
there and then speaking to mister Winters, the pair learned

439
00:31:05.240 --> 00:31:08.960
more to bolster the case against Williams. He recalled not

440
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:13.799
only both women very well, but that a man had

441
00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:17.200
called on them in the parlor. I mean that is

442
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:22.119
scandalous where a heated discussion about land had taken place,

443
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:27.519
and it's so specific. He's a little eavesdropper right. Well,

444
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:30.359
I mean he's like sitting at the front desk, which

445
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.599
is like, you know, presumably ten feet from the palla.

446
00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:37.039
So I like to picture him like at the door

447
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:37.920
with a glass.

448
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:43.519
Well, I think, you know, like in a rooming house

449
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:45.640
like this, the parlor would be you know, it's a

450
00:31:45.799 --> 00:31:49.799
it's a common area. Yeah, And I kind of like

451
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:53.319
to picture him more so being like, these are two

452
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:58.079
unaccompanied women and I'm hearing this man having like heated

453
00:31:58.119 --> 00:32:01.279
discussion with them, and he's like keeping it ear, you know,

454
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:04.920
like not to the door with a glass, but like

455
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:07.720
just keeping an ear, you know, keeping an eye on

456
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.759
what's going. Yeah, like thinking like, well, this is very

457
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.559
improper and just you know, making sure he doesn't need

458
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:19.799
to go bust in there and bust some hats or something. Next,

459
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:24.519
the pair located a Hood River laborer named j. R.

460
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:28.880
Reese that had previously done work for Norman Williams in

461
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.640
April of nineteen hundred, roughly a month after the Nesbit

462
00:32:33.680 --> 00:32:38.720
women's sudden disappearance. He'd been clearing brush and stumps on

463
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:42.519
the property that he would later return to the property

464
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:48.440
to see. And this is, as he described, the goddamnedest

465
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:52.519
pile of stuff you ever see, being burned in what

466
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.039
the prosecution would eventually argue was being utilized as a

467
00:32:58.119 --> 00:32:59.240
funeral pyre.

468
00:32:59.759 --> 00:32:59.960
No.

469
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:09.519
Yeah. They also spoke to one of Almah's acquaintances, Missus Riggs,

470
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:13.599
who would say she'd been surprised, given their friendly relationship,

471
00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:17.240
that Almah hadn't said goodbye to her before leaving, though

472
00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:20.039
she hadn't really dwelled on it initially. She's like, well,

473
00:33:20.079 --> 00:33:24.599
you know, people live their lives. Yeah, But she'd spoken

474
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.759
to Williams multiple times since the women's apparent departure and

475
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:35.640
he'd confirmed they were well. They were doing fine, according

476
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:40.079
to letters he stated he'd received from the Nesbit women.

477
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:47.000
Since I smell a lie or show us the letters, Yeah, Like,

478
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.359
wouldn't that be great evidence against or you know, to

479
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.599
prove that you didn't kill them, right, You're like, they're

480
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:56.680
super duper alive. They wrote me these letters.

481
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:59.920
Yeah, and then if you don't have them, it's like, oh, okay,

482
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.519
obviously you were lying for some reason because you wanted

483
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.000
people to think they were Okay.

484
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.679
You mean those made up letters that never existed.

485
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:10.000
Hi?

486
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.800
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Y. While Williams was in custody,

487
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:20.079
Detective Fred Wilson or you know, DDA whatever, he's wearing

488
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.480
a lot of hats, Okay, he visited him and questioned

489
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.639
him about the bloody burlap that had been recovered from

490
00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:32.199
the homestead. Williams explained that it was a mayor's blood.

491
00:34:33.599 --> 00:34:39.400
She had birthed a cult, nothing nefarious. He also detailed

492
00:34:40.039 --> 00:34:44.039
that prior to construction of the henhouse, an outhouse had

493
00:34:44.079 --> 00:34:47.920
stood on that part of the property. However, both other

494
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:53.519
workers from the Bellingham Sawmill and Missus Riggs provided details

495
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:59.000
contradicting his story. The cult was born at the sawmill,

496
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:04.960
hundreds of miles away and also obviously much later. Wow,

497
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.960
they were like there was no cult born when he

498
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:13.880
was living on that property. H Additionally, missus Riggs could

499
00:35:13.920 --> 00:35:17.519
confirm that no outhouse building had existed in the spot

500
00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:22.000
prior to the hen house. It's such a weird thing

501
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.320
to lie about in the first place.

502
00:35:24.719 --> 00:35:27.320
Is it, Like, because then they might there might be

503
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:29.679
like period blood there and that would make sense.

504
00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:32.480
I don't know. I don't even think that he was

505
00:35:32.559 --> 00:35:35.400
going for that. I think what he was trying to

506
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.440
argue is that like, oh, you know, when that was

507
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:43.239
an outhouse building, you know that just that that burlab

508
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:45.760
it just got like shoved in there, and then later

509
00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:48.920
you know, it was like reconstructed as a hen house.

510
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:52.599
And I so that's how that ended up there. Okay,

511
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.599
that's very odd. It's just why why why why? He's

512
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:01.840
not smart? No, oh, he's really not, smark.

513
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.280
He does not think through his stories, which is like

514
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.199
a good thing, I guess, But yeah, I mean, stay

515
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.320
stupid forever. Though Norman Williams was arrested in connection with

516
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:16.360
the forgery, he was also eventually charged with the murders

517
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:18.599
of Louisa and Alma.

518
00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:24.039
Nesbit because duh. The trial commenced at the Wasco County

519
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:28.760
Courthouse on May twenty fourth, nineteen oh four, relying heavily

520
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:34.119
on circumstantial evidence and testimony from community members. And to

521
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:37.599
be fair, a lot of what we've talked about is,

522
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:41.840
you know, it's kind of based on eyewitness testimony, like

523
00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:47.000
these third parties whose memories can be unreliable, and you know,

524
00:36:47.159 --> 00:36:51.000
circumstantial evidence can you know, still be evidence, but like

525
00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:57.079
you gotta really stack it up, right, I mean, reporters

526
00:36:57.119 --> 00:37:02.159
and sketch artists came from neighboring cities Portland, Seattle, Spokane,

527
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.079
even as far as San Francisco. Kind of a big deal.

528
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:10.920
Newspaper coverage detailed the immense crowd gathered in and around

529
00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:17.280
the courthouse for the Great Homestead Murder's case. Fred Wilson

530
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.639
gave the opening statement to the jury, now acting as

531
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:24.679
prosecutor after having previously worked the case as a detective.

532
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:29.079
Lovable you, little night school graduate.

533
00:37:29.159 --> 00:37:32.119
You but he really knows the ins and outs of

534
00:37:32.199 --> 00:37:33.880
the case. So it's kind of good.

535
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:36.840
Nobody knows it better than him, I feel like, right,

536
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:43.000
so what the hell? The prosecution argued that the women's disappearance,

537
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:48.920
combined with William's actions and statements, demonstrated that murder had occurred.

538
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:54.239
In contrast, the defense emphasized the absence of bodies and

539
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:58.320
the possibility that the women had simply left the area.

540
00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:05.559
Henry E. McGinn, arguably Oregon's most highly regarded criminal lawyer

541
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:09.440
at the time, represented Williams and did not put him

542
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:14.400
on the stat on the stand, instead relying solely on

543
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:17.159
corpus delicti to free his client.

544
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:19.239
They probably didn't want to put him on the stand

545
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:20.360
because he's a fucking idiot.

546
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:23.639
Yeah, I mean, he kind of seems like he could

547
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:26.639
be a little bit of a loose cannon. And in general,

548
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:32.320
they they do say it is unwise to go up

549
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.239
to the stand when you know, yeah, I mean, but

550
00:38:36.440 --> 00:38:39.239
you know, do what you will. It's just your life

551
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.119
on the line, you know what I mean. Like, yeah,

552
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:48.400
historically it's a mistake. But after all, this tension between

553
00:38:48.440 --> 00:38:53.119
suspicion and proof has to find many a courtroom proceeding.

554
00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:59.480
The testimony of H. D. Langele Bert Stranahan's former partner

555
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:05.119
in the fashion Livery Stables, proved critical to the prosecution's case.

556
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:09.440
He testified that he had seen Williams driving into Hood

557
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:14.000
River alone at approximately eight point thirty on the morning

558
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.880
of March ninth, by the Parkdale Road, the same one

559
00:39:17.960 --> 00:39:20.960
he had taken out of Hood River the evening prior.

560
00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:26.119
The prosecution proffered a blackboard to present a hand drawn

561
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.760
chalk map of Hood River to show that Williams could

562
00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:34.280
not have driven to the Hood River Railroad station without

563
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:41.800
first having passed the fashion Livery stables. Ah. Additionally, the

564
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:46.480
chief train dispatcher for the Oregon Railway and Navigation Company

565
00:39:47.159 --> 00:39:50.679
testified that the only westbound train to pass through Hood

566
00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:54.559
River on the morning of March ninth, nineteen hundred, had

567
00:39:54.599 --> 00:40:00.960
done so hours prior to Langle witnessing Williams driving into town.

568
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:05.079
The prosecution stated that William's assertion that he had driven

569
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.039
the women to the train station was therefore patently false.

570
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:11.519
What a dumb dumb If you.

571
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.079
Were driving them to the train station, why didn't we

572
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:16.800
see them? And why wouldn't you have delivered them to

573
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:20.159
the train station in time to take said train?

574
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.760
Yeah, you know those women, they always be taken forever

575
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:24.719
to get ready.

576
00:40:26.719 --> 00:40:33.119
Five more minutes. The most surprising witness testified just prior

577
00:40:33.239 --> 00:40:40.199
to the state resting a literal woman, doctor l Victoria Hampton.

578
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:46.159
She was a young chemist and microscopist in Portland, Women

579
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:51.000
in Stem for reals Ease, Women in Stem in the

580
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:52.760
early nineteen hundred love It.

581
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.239
Okay, Okay trailblazers.

582
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.639
Her testimony was critical to the case establishing the George

583
00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:04.840
had discovered on the homestead was indeed human hair attached

584
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.880
to the bloody gunny sack, because of course, if you're

585
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.480
identifying blood hair, there's always the possibility that it's animal.

586
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:16.480
And his story was that it came from a horse,

587
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:22.599
but not only making a human right, yeah, but not

588
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:26.760
only was it human. She testified that it belonged to

589
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:27.920
Alma Nesbit.

590
00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:33.039
So wow, that's crazy that they could figure that out

591
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:34.800
back then, and it was a woman who did it.

592
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.159
Right. Her determination was based on a brand new German

593
00:41:40.519 --> 00:41:44.559
serum test discovered just a year prior, So this is like,

594
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:47.199
whoa science?

595
00:41:48.119 --> 00:41:50.320
Yeah, so he probably didn't even know they could figure

596
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:52.400
that kind of shit out because he's dumb. For one,

597
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.760
he probably doesn't keep up on German news.

598
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:56.960
Or science.

599
00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:05.239
Yeah yeah, yeah, no, I have to imagine nobody, just

600
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:08.639
like in the general populace, was aware that that is

601
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:11.719
something they could even like determine with any certainty.

602
00:42:11.880 --> 00:42:15.480
So it's wild it's wild, the wild, wildwidth.

603
00:42:16.519 --> 00:42:21.159
Yeah, it was interesting because her testimony was that, you know,

604
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.760
what was found on the gunnysack belonged to Almah, but

605
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:29.559
she was the daughter. So some of the source material

606
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:32.960
focused on the long strands of silver hair which would

607
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:36.239
have come from the mother, But there were you know,

608
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:40.920
articles and things that talked about there also being brown

609
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:46.519
hair that was entangled in there. So in any case,

610
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:50.119
I don't know how they felt like they could really

611
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:55.039
determine that it belonged to a specific person. That part

612
00:42:55.119 --> 00:42:57.360
is a little bit dubious to me, because the serum

613
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:00.400
test is really just telling them like, this is human

614
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.840
not animal. But huh, I'm gonna give them a pass

615
00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:09.079
because I feel like he like literally handed them a

616
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:14.599
slam dunk. It was, I mean, calm on, I mean

617
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.400
just so much of his whole story was just so

618
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:21.559
clearly nonsense. It was like, listen, if you're gonna tell

619
00:43:21.639 --> 00:43:24.480
us a story, as the audience, we have to be

620
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:30.199
prepared sometimes to suspend our disbelief to a degree. I'm

621
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:35.719
not a magician, though. These are all just like made up.

622
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:37.280
It's just ridiculous.

623
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:39.719
Yeah, but he seemed to have gotten away with it,

624
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:43.000
like quite a few timesh or possibly so he probably

625
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:46.840
just didn't even He's like, who's even paying attention? Right?

626
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:51.360
Trust me, I've already gotten away with killing quite a

627
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:55.000
few broads, okay, And the last time they caught me

628
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.119
try and I got put away for about fifteen seconds. Oh,

629
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.960
I'm gonna make sure it sticks. The prosecution's theory of

630
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:08.920
the case was that Williams was simply an opportunist and

631
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.239
polygamist whose marriage to Alma was motivated not by affection

632
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.400
for her, but by the desire to lay claim on

633
00:44:17.519 --> 00:44:22.119
her land. Jurors were asked to decide whether the evidence

634
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:26.480
presented was sufficient to conclude not only that the Nesbits

635
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:30.440
were dead, but that Williams had killed them. It was

636
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.400
an enormous decision, and in the end they reached a

637
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:39.159
verdict in less than four hours. When the jury comes

638
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:43.000
back that quickly, it's almost never good for the defendant.

639
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:44.679
I'm just gonna say.

640
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:47.079
Okay, I was like, you seem happy, but I am sorry.

641
00:44:47.159 --> 00:44:49.639
I know it's very scary because it definitely like you

642
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.800
could see this going either way for sure, But yeah,

643
00:44:53.159 --> 00:44:57.519
usually a quick turnaround means a conviction. It's not scientific,

644
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:00.159
But I mean, I think I've heard so many many

645
00:45:00.239 --> 00:45:05.079
different lawyers and prosecutors talk about that. How like they

646
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.000
start to get a sense of like what people are

647
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:10.760
thinking and debating in the jury room based on like

648
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:15.559
how long it's taking, and so they yeah, it's really interesting.

649
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:19.880
Like the psychology of it is is fascinating. Public executions

650
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:23.599
were not unheard of in early Oregon, though they were

651
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:27.960
already becoming less common by the early twentieth century. On

652
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:31.679
July twenty first, nineteen oh five, at forty eight years old,

653
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:37.840
Daniel Norman Williams was the sixty sixth and last man

654
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:45.320
publicly hanged in Oregon. Ooh, the sixty sixth in the

655
00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:46.480
sixth month of the year.

656
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:52.079
Oh dude, you know this is so weird, Okay because

657
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.199
my episode is like early nineteen hundreds and there's like

658
00:45:57.280 --> 00:45:59.280
a six to sixty sixth element in it too.

659
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:03.320
Uh, it like doesn't connect.

660
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:05.519
With the nineteen hundred's part, but like it's still in

661
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:07.039
my episode, so it's kind of weird.

662
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:09.760
I didn't even really think about this six sixty six

663
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:17.079
until you said, woo, that's crazy. The execution marked the

664
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:19.440
end of the legal case, but not the end of

665
00:46:19.480 --> 00:46:22.719
the story. Even after the sentence was carried out, the

666
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:27.800
central mystery remained unsolved. The bodies of Louisa and Almond

667
00:46:27.800 --> 00:46:30.880
Nesbit were never found because he burned them like a

668
00:46:31.159 --> 00:46:33.559
I mean if that's a lot harder to do than

669
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:37.719
people realize. So that is one thing that kind of

670
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.599
bothers me about the case, is that, like, I mean,

671
00:46:41.719 --> 00:46:47.960
the amount of heat that's required to actually like successfully

672
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:51.960
like burn a body beyond recognition. And who knows, maybe

673
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:54.800
he burned them to a certain point and realized, oh wait,

674
00:46:55.320 --> 00:46:58.679
I don't have like a proper crematorium. Now I'm just

675
00:46:58.760 --> 00:47:02.559
gonna bury the bodies somewhere, and they just were never

676
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.400
just go who there's how could how could we ever know?

677
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:12.320
But without bodies, uncertainty survives the story of Alma and

678
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:18.199
Louisa Nesbit still lingers in hood Rivers Historical Memory, part tragedy,

679
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:24.400
part legal landmark, and part unanswered question, part asshole. Oh

680
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:28.079
there's a lot of vast holdery. Yeah, it's just.

681
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:34.239
Oh, I still I keep thinking, like, just thank goodness

682
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.800
they had a family member who cared that much about it,

683
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:39.679
I know, like travel and search for them.

684
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:42.519
I mean, especially back then, because it's like to go

685
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:47.840
the distance from you know Iowa or I presume he

686
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:52.679
was still in Iowa. But to travel that distance, I

687
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:55.639
mean you had to do that by train that you know.

688
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:58.159
I don't know how long it took to travel by

689
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.880
train from Iowa to Oregon, but I think I would imagine,

690
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:04.760
you know, maybe a day or two, like a minute. Yeah,

691
00:48:05.079 --> 00:48:07.480
It's it's not like, oh, I'll just hop in my

692
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:10.440
car and six hours later I'm there, or hop on

693
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:13.360
a plane and you know, three or four hours later

694
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:17.519
I'm there. It's it's a lot. And knowing that, like

695
00:48:17.599 --> 00:48:21.199
he's basically gonna have to be like the untrained detective.

696
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:25.960
Like he came. He came with receipts and to collect

697
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:29.679
more receipts, and he was like see all of these receipts,

698
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:33.199
and he did the damn thing, like he was literally

699
00:48:33.639 --> 00:48:38.000
like unpaid law enforcement. Yeah. I hope he lived a

700
00:48:38.039 --> 00:48:38.800
happy life.

701
00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:41.719
I mean, that's so hard to say, or you know,

702
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:44.320
you can't. I know, it doesn't never go away, we

703
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:46.559
know that, but yeah, I just hope he had a

704
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:47.559
good life after that.

705
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:50.519
You know, nothing else crazy happened. God, I know, like

706
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:54.480
this man has just already been through entirely too much,

707
00:48:54.760 --> 00:48:59.960
thank you, But yeah, I don't. I don't have more

708
00:49:00.039 --> 00:49:04.199
more about George. I didn't see that there was anything

709
00:49:04.280 --> 00:49:08.320
in terms of, you know, really follow up about him

710
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:12.719
and like what his life was like after all of this.

711
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:15.800
That's probably good.

712
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:17.920
That like reporters weren't bothering the show.

713
00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:22.159
I mean, in a way, I do think that sometimes

714
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:26.320
it's healthier for the narrative and and truly for the

715
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:30.119
for the real life events to be that you know,

716
00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:34.440
there's a verdict in this case and that's the end

717
00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.239
of this of the story. You know, like he is

718
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:41.519
a victim of these crimes, but like his role is done,

719
00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:43.760
like I mean, and he did all the heavy liftings

720
00:49:43.760 --> 00:49:46.559
so he could use it, he could use a little rest,

721
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.039
if I'm being honest, I think that's one area where

722
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:55.320
in more modern times, probably a lot of people that

723
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.840
that's where a lot of the suffering comes from, right,

724
00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.719
I mean, I think kind of either whether you're related

725
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:04.320
to the victim or the perpetrator, it's just that it's

726
00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:08.760
like this never leaves you, like it just follows you.

727
00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:12.880
So I mean, hopefully, hopefully he went on to have

728
00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.920
a long and happy life that you know, did not

729
00:50:16.760 --> 00:50:19.920
get him into the papers, unless that was something he wanted,

730
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:24.000
like a birth announcement or you know people announced like

731
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.960
when they got engaged and married and things like that.

732
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:31.920
You know, hopefully somebody wrote him a really fucking awesome

733
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:32.880
oh bit, you know.

734
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.639
But other than that, do you think he's dead by now?

735
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:43.840
I'm just kidding. I know, I'm just kidding. I want

736
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:45.079
to think he lived forever.

737
00:50:48.599 --> 00:50:52.480
Okay, So here's the dilemma now, is that, as you're

738
00:50:52.519 --> 00:50:55.079
asking that, I thought I could just sneakily put on

739
00:50:55.119 --> 00:51:03.599
some chapstick and my face is Oh, at least you

740
00:51:03.639 --> 00:51:06.599
weren't picking your nose, so we can leave it exactly exactly.

741
00:51:06.719 --> 00:51:12.840
I wasn't doing anything too weird. That's so funny, you guys.

742
00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:16.159
We are human. We do occasionally have to like chapstick,

743
00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:20.840
drink some water. I'm forever doing my eye drops, hope.

744
00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.239
I don't think we've ever left in any of the

745
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:29.519
eye drop shots because those are disturbing. Probably probably not, Maybe,

746
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:31.800
I don't know. We gotta ask Taylor. I don't think

747
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:35.159
i've ever She's like, what, I don't cut anything out?

748
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:39.840
Can you imagine it would be terrible? We know she doesn't.

749
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:42.800
She works hard. I know, I know, well do you

750
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:43.440
think Tara.

751
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:46.400
Would give us some answers. You know, it just might.

752
00:51:46.679 --> 00:51:50.519
It just might. I was gonna say, I do have

753
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:56.199
somebody that was involved in this case that we're probably

754
00:51:56.320 --> 00:52:00.639
gonna have to talk about again. What listen in old

755
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:05.199
timey newspapers and the things you can find, And I

756
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:10.199
was like, wait, isn't he the is it the detective lawyer?

757
00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:10.519
Die?

758
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:16.559
Guys? Honestly, if we like revisit the area like in

759
00:52:16.599 --> 00:52:19.440
this time period again, I would not be surprised if

760
00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:22.599
he came up again. That's not what I have in mind.

761
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.800
I did come across something. I'm okay, it could end

762
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:28.360
up being like a bonus. I'm not sure yet because

763
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:30.280
I have to I have to dig into it and

764
00:52:30.320 --> 00:52:36.760
see what I can find. But wowsers, what a time like.

765
00:52:36.800 --> 00:52:41.599
They didn't call it the wild West for nothing? Yeah, okay, truly.

766
00:52:42.920 --> 00:52:43.239
Wow?

767
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:49.679
Okay, what Deck or you us? I'm just a PNW one.

768
00:52:51.559 --> 00:52:53.119
You don't have a trad wife, Deck. You have a

769
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:54.119
fifties housewife?

770
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:57.840
Deck? I do. Yeah, yeah, we've got the housewife one

771
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:00.000
that didn't really feel like totally different.

772
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:00.559
Yeah.

773
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:03.880
I didn't really feel totally on brand, just because also

774
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:05.800
she was like a secret wife.

775
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.519
Yeah, so I hope I didn't do shit for him. Honestly,

776
00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:14.920
I hope she didn't do his laundry churn, his butter dishes, nothing.

777
00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:23.800
His literal or metaphorical butter. Okay, I'm gonna lay them out.

778
00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:28.159
I've got them in just like the slightest like arch

779
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:32.440
shape in front of me, Like I didn't just lay

780
00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:34.639
them out totally flat and straight.

781
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:39.440
So just run your fingers over him and maybe I'll

782
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:42.920
say one to stop. Okay, do one handed so you

783
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:43.880
don't get confused.

784
00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:53.719
Okay, stop ew Okay. So we have the King of Pentacles. Okay,

785
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:58.480
but we drew it in the reverse. Oh. I feel

786
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:01.199
like this is like for me, the visual of this

787
00:54:01.360 --> 00:54:04.400
is like very of frontier time.

788
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:09.360
Right uh huh, like wilderness. And I also feel like

789
00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:11.760
that's kind of like what he thought of himself to be.

790
00:54:11.920 --> 00:54:14.639
Oh my god, he was just turn upside down.

791
00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.679
He was the worst for real, for real though, that

792
00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:20.639
was that's so funny. I feel like in a flash,

793
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:25.639
that's sort of like where my brain went. So King

794
00:54:25.719 --> 00:54:34.719
of Pentacles our keywords are security, material success, pragmatism, stability, strength,

795
00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:37.760
and worldly power. It's kind of the vibes I was

796
00:54:37.760 --> 00:54:43.360
getting from that. Yeah, for sure. In many decks, this

797
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.480
king sits on a throne and wears rich garments and

798
00:54:46.519 --> 00:54:52.440
a crown. Sometimes he appears with a bull, symbol of strength, virility,

799
00:54:52.480 --> 00:55:01.880
and tenacity, and also dumb assory stubborn. Yeah. In a reading,

800
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:05.760
he may represent an actual person, in which case he's

801
00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:10.000
usually a mature man who exercises worldly power and authority.

802
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:11.960
I can't wait to see what the reverse Yes, I

803
00:55:12.000 --> 00:55:13.599
was gonna say, which I think is why we drew

804
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:22.239
it in reverse. When reversed, the King of Pentacles indicates sluggishness, delays,

805
00:55:22.360 --> 00:55:27.440
and or obstacles to material success. Hmmm. Probably because you

806
00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:34.039
don't understand the law or how literally anything works. Sometimes

807
00:55:34.079 --> 00:55:38.320
it shows low energy or insecurity. You feel stuck, but

808
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:40.719
you don't have the drive to get out of your rut.

809
00:55:41.440 --> 00:55:42.800
I'm just gonna take her land.

810
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:47.639
Oh my god, I mean wow, I don't know, Caitlin

811
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.760
an insecure man? To me, I feel like he wouldn't

812
00:55:50.800 --> 00:55:51.800
have six wives.

813
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:58.880
I think that's exactly who has six wives? Okay, you're

814
00:55:58.880 --> 00:56:04.400
gonna absolutely shit. Okay. In the reverse interpretation, if the

815
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:11.519
card represents an actual person, he may be mercenary, course, dull, witted,

816
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:13.719
or even corrupt.

817
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:17.360
What's mercenary mean? I feel like I ask you this

818
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:18.679
a lot, but I forget.

819
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:22.320
I you know, in terms of like an adjective, I

820
00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:26.920
feel like I struggle to describe that. So I'm gonna

821
00:56:26.960 --> 00:56:31.559
look like I know that, like a mercenary like in

822
00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:35.360
a wartime, is like somebody, it's like a paid soldier. Basically,

823
00:56:36.679 --> 00:56:41.079
oh yeah, oh my god, okay. So, as an adjective,

824
00:56:41.559 --> 00:56:45.920
mercenary describes a person, action or motive driven solely by

825
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:50.880
a desire for money or material gain, often disregarding ethics, loyalty,

826
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:51.920
or integrity.

827
00:56:52.559 --> 00:56:56.920
That's literally the perfect word for him. It so is

828
00:56:57.239 --> 00:56:58.199
also dull witted.

829
00:56:58.519 --> 00:57:02.119
Oh my god, just you cannot make this shut up.

830
00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:09.360
It characterizes behavior that is greedy, grasping, or profit oriented. Hmm.

831
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:13.920
I'm glad I asked what it meant, because that definition.

832
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:27.599
Lost her. I the combination of dull, witted and mercenary.

833
00:57:27.960 --> 00:57:32.920
I mean it just oh chef's kiss. Yeah, it just

834
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:35.599
it doesn't get better than that. Oh what was the

835
00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:40.239
last word? One was course, Yes, mercenary, course, dull witted,

836
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.599
or even corrupt. Well, I'm obviously it follows he tried

837
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:49.960
to forge a signature, so like right, my god. No, honestly,

838
00:57:50.079 --> 00:57:54.239
each of these like has a very specific application, Like

839
00:57:54.320 --> 00:57:58.880
you might think that, well, it feels a little bit redundant. No, no,

840
00:57:58.960 --> 00:58:03.280
it's not. No, No, They're all accurate and important in

841
00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:07.719
their own way. In a reading about money, your finances

842
00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:12.199
are stagnant, you might even incur losses, perhaps because you're

843
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.119
stuck in old patterns and have resisted making changes. You're

844
00:58:16.159 --> 00:58:19.639
worried about money and or don't handle your resource as well,

845
00:58:19.880 --> 00:58:24.360
which I have to assume is yeah, that feels right.

846
00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:27.800
And stuck in his old ways of killing his wives

847
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:30.119
for their possessions, just.

848
00:58:30.119 --> 00:58:31.079
All the murdering.

849
00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:34.280
God, thank God for the last one who, like he

850
00:58:35.079 --> 00:58:38.559
didn't get to take advantage of or do something worse to.

851
00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:42.599
I mean, I don't know, it's unclear which of the

852
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:47.599
wives fell victims other than Alma. It's yeah, I just.

853
00:58:47.599 --> 00:58:49.800
Like to assume they got him before he did anything

854
00:58:49.840 --> 00:58:51.599
to the last lady he was with.

855
00:58:51.800 --> 00:58:56.280
I know well, and I have honestly, I feel like

856
00:58:56.440 --> 00:59:01.119
her chances are not great, just because she was actually

857
00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:05.239
in Oregon and it was such a short time turnaround,

858
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:09.119
and we know he poisoned multiple wives. I feel like Yeah,

859
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:14.239
it feels as though there's a pretty high likelihood that

860
00:59:14.559 --> 00:59:18.679
maybe she was one of them that didn't make it. No,

861
00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:22.599
in my mind, no, she was saved. Although to be fair,

862
00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:30.159
if she had been killed prior to Alma arriving in Oregon,

863
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:37.599
I mean, espouse's death doesn't necessarily nullify your marriage, but

864
00:59:37.719 --> 00:59:40.239
it would, like I feel like that would have been

865
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:44.400
more of a point of it wouldn't matter that he

866
00:59:44.440 --> 00:59:48.199
had married that woman as much if she was deceased,

867
00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:51.719
if that makes sense. Sounds awful to say, because that

868
00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:54.840
makes it sound like, oh, it doesn't matter. But I'm

869
00:59:54.880 --> 00:59:58.079
just saying, like, if it's a you know, a deceased part,

870
00:59:58.400 --> 00:59:59.599
very suspicious. Ye.

871
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:03.760
Yeah, yeah, I was thinking of the woman. You said

872
01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:05.599
he was already with another woman.

873
01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:08.679
In Bellingham.

874
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:11.079
Yeah, so that's who I was thinking of. Like I hope,

875
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:14.400
oh he got caught before, yes, he could do anything

876
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:14.840
to her.

877
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:18.679
Well yeah, I mean I think she was saved by

878
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:24.840
the literal bell in Bellingham.

879
01:00:24.920 --> 01:00:27.519
I can't imagine though, like, oh my god, like who

880
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:28.440
was I with?

881
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:30.079
What did I escape?

882
01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.599
I know, like what almost happened to me?

883
01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:40.079
I mean, very very scary for that woman, Like that

884
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:46.840
was very much, very possibly almost you. If the rating

885
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:49.960
is about your job, the king reversed may mean you're

886
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:53.599
bored with your work but can't find something better. Perhaps

887
01:00:53.679 --> 01:00:57.880
you've sacrificed your passion for security or your job maybe

888
01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:02.039
in jeopardy, and you feel insecure. In a reading about love,

889
01:01:02.760 --> 01:01:06.840
a relationship may offer stability, but little excitement or romance.

890
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:12.800
Routine or responsibility may drain your vitality. Perhaps you feel

891
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:18.760
stuck in a relationship for financial reasons. Yeah, And I

892
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:21.039
just I feel like the thing that sticks out to

893
01:01:21.079 --> 01:01:25.159
me here too, is that it says routine or responsibility

894
01:01:25.280 --> 01:01:28.880
may drain your vitality. And so much of what I

895
01:01:28.960 --> 01:01:31.920
focused on early on is just kind of like the

896
01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:35.559
I mean it's definitely it's routine, but it's also just

897
01:01:35.679 --> 01:01:39.440
like it's the drudgery of the responsibility and the burden

898
01:01:40.159 --> 01:01:45.920
of homesteadying in this like very rural and yeah, you

899
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:49.199
know you're you're just barely at the edges of the

900
01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:53.519
wilderness in hood River in like this point in history.

901
01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:59.280
It's like this is like barely a little town. Yeah,

902
01:01:59.360 --> 01:02:03.519
that to me, like that that that's another major linkage.

903
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:07.679
Oh man, is that it? Yeah?

904
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:11.079
That be that I mean, it was enough it was like,

905
01:02:11.199 --> 01:02:14.320
oh it was honny, Yeah, it was right.

906
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:17.159
They own the night. Wow, so funny.

907
01:02:17.599 --> 01:02:22.039
I hope someday that they find some bones and they

908
01:02:22.159 --> 01:02:26.039
are able to miraculously figure out who it is.

909
01:02:26.599 --> 01:02:30.239
Honestly, that that would be really cool. And I feel

910
01:02:30.599 --> 01:02:34.719
I feel like with genetic genealogy, like that's something that's like,

911
01:02:34.800 --> 01:02:38.960
it's very it's very much possible these days. Yeah, so

912
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:42.800
I think it's entirely possible that at some point, you know,

913
01:02:42.920 --> 01:02:46.599
their remains could be discovered and you know, maybe they

914
01:02:46.639 --> 01:02:50.760
can be interred in a more respectful I have to

915
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:56.239
imagine a more respectful way than whatever Norman did with them.

916
01:02:56.679 --> 01:03:00.920
Norman Baits, I know, such a creat name, and I

917
01:03:01.079 --> 01:03:05.280
just he probably killed his mom too, wouldn't surprise me.

918
01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:08.599
But I have no evidence of that. Sorry, tell you

919
01:03:08.639 --> 01:03:10.920
Normans out there, it's only creepy if you're a murderer.

920
01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:15.760
Well, yeah, you see, it's it's the murdering that really

921
01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:18.599
gets us upset, which I feel like is fair, you know,

922
01:03:19.119 --> 01:03:21.840
I think, so, don't at me if you disagree.

923
01:03:22.039 --> 01:03:25.320
If you're not upset by murder, we don't want you around.

924
01:03:25.400 --> 01:03:29.440
Yeah. Yeah, I'm not interested in a discourse about that.

925
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:29.760
With you.

926
01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:34.920
Sorry, please meet the country the world, Please go into space.

927
01:03:35.119 --> 01:03:38.599
Thank you? Yeah, you and Elon just go ahead and

928
01:03:38.599 --> 01:03:44.320
get on his rocket. Oh man, well, have a creepy day.

929
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:50.280
We'll see you next Thursday day, nasty Thursday.

930
01:03:50.320 --> 01:03:51.159
Oh boy.

931
01:03:55.840 --> 01:03:58.119
Every time you say Nesbit, all I can think of

932
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:03.039
is toy story when buzz light Ear is Missus Nesbit,

933
01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:05.920
when he goes crazy, you remember that.

934
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:16.039
Totally Missus Nesbit. I just keep thinking about Nina Nesbit

935
01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:21.400
and that's all I got. I don't know who that is. Yeah,

936
01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:23.880
she's one of my favorite singers.

937
01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:28.440
Oh that would also remind me of missus Nesbit.

938
01:04:28.719 --> 01:04:32.280
I just it's missus Nesbit. It's just it's it's always

939
01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:35.599
that for you, all day long. Okay, buzz Lightear losing

940
01:04:35.639 --> 01:04:39.159
a ship, that's what it is. Well fair enough. You know,

941
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:43.480
we can't help the associations that we make in our brains.

942
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:44.280
Really can't