Dec. 11, 2025

Missing in Wenatchee: The Decker Sisters Case

Missing in Wenatchee: The Decker Sisters Case
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In late May 2025, three young sisters—Paityn Decker (9), Evelyn Decker (8), and Olivia Decker (5)—disappeared during a scheduled visit with their father, Travis Caleb Decker. Days later, their bodies were discovered in a wooded area near Rock Island Campground in the Cascade Mountains. Investigators uncovered forensic evidence, including DNA, linking their father to the killings, prompting a massive months-long manhunt across rugged mountain terrain.

In mid-September, human remains identified as Travis Decker’s were located in a remote forested area, officially ending the manhunt and criminal proceedings. Yet significant questions remain—about motive, the final weeks of Decker’s life, and the systemic factors that may have contributed to this tragedy. The case has left a lasting impact on the Wenatchee and Leavenworth communities and continues to shape discussions about child safety, mental‑health intervention, and parental visitation procedures and safeguards.

For resources to report abuse or neglect visit Washington State DCYF or the National Childhelp Hotline. 

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The search quickly became one of the largest coordinated manhunts

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in the region in recent years, and included the US

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Marshall Service, the FBI, Washington State Patrol, Shelan County Sheriff's Office,

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and numerous local search and rescue groups. Accustomed to operations

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in rugged wilderness terrain, these agencies brought together drones, helicopters,

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canine units, ground teams, and trackers experienced in wilderness navigation.

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Wow, So I mean they pulled it all out? Hi, Cassie, Hi,

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Caitlin High creepy people.

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Hello, This is PNW Hanson Homicides where we chat about

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true crime, the paranormal and other spooky things and creepy shit,

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all kinds of stuff. We also do a Tarot reading

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at the end of every episode for a little bit

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of deeper insight into our topic. Okay, so jumping into it.

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Travis Caleb Decker, age thirty two, has been variously described

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as an active, athletic father and alternately a struggling ex soldier.

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As his mental health deteriorated, he exhibited increasing signs of instability.

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Whitney Decker, his ex wife and the mother of their

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three young daughters, Peyton Evelyn and Olivia grew concerned. They

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were nine, eight and five at the time. I know

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this is kind of rough timing after the Powell case,

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but this one has been on my radar for a

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while because it is really kind of a fresh case,

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fresh ish, okay, you know, I think the case is

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at the point that we have most of the answers

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that we're likely to ever receive, which is sort of,

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I'm realizing, in hindsight, a little bit of a foreboding

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place to start, but it does inform. This case received

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extensive local coverage, but primarily in waves as major updates

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occurred from last May to October twenty twenty five.

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That was a couple months ago.

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Okay, Yeah, so I mean for those of us that

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live in the region and if you followed it, it

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probably doesn't feel as fresh. But it is a very

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recent case. We don't talk about as many cases that

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are like this recent. It didn't receive the type of

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sustained coverage that we see in some other cases, you know,

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like Idaho for Gabby Patito, just you know, kind of

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some examples of ones that really did get the absolute

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like not just sustained but like national and international interest

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and coverage in a case that was quickly revealed as

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seemingly clear cut, where there is no trial or interrogation

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footage to televise, and the surviving family of the victims

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maintained privacy throughout their grief, the narrative and the media

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coverage itself was stunted and shockingly brief, right because like,

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what is there really to report on?

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You know?

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Yeah, it does sort of become like there's there's not

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really a nice way to put this, but I feel

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like the intrigue and the mystery is sort of taken

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out of it, so it just, yeah, it doesn't always

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hold our attention in the same way.

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Yeah, like I'm thinking like shock value, you know, clickbait.

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It's not as clickbaity. Yes. Absolutely.

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While there aren't any significant or abundant studies of a

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robust academic makeup to cite, there does appear to be

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a phenomenon of PNW cases being generally under reported unless

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they grab national interest early. A case like Decker's, tragic

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but seemingly straightforward gets pushed out of the national spot.

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I think it's because we're kind of we're like the

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youngest sibling of the family, like we're the wild West,

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the territory settled last, and I think a lot of

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times areas like Dallas, Fort Worth or like New York City, Chicago,

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those are kind of considered more major hubs than even

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you know, maybe Seattle, and.

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We're just the nasty little pnwo over. I don't know.

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Anyways, There's not a lot out there to cite in

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terms of research, but there is in terms of like

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actual like formal life studies. But there is like data

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that you can look at, and there's obviously anecdotal evidence.

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I just think it's it's really kind of sad how

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that played out in this case because I expected to

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be seeing and hearing a lot more about this, so

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I've been kind of shocked over the last few months

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to not see that that makes sense.

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Yeah, well, I'm glad you're telling us about it.

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Yeah, I'm sorry. A United States military veteran, Travis had

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previously lived in various parts of the Winatchee Valley region

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of Washington State. According to information provided through court filings

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and statements made by his ex wife's attorney, Decker struggled

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with a combination of unstable housing, unemployment, and mental health

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challenges in the years following his military service, he seemed

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to be trying to cope with post traumatic stress symptoms,

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symptoms that were presenting as severe enough to be raised

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in discussion regarding custody and visitation for the couple's three

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young daughters.

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Oh wow, So obviously this person needs hell.

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Yes, And I think we're all adult enough and see

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these things and experience them in so many different ways

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in our own personal experiences. But I think we all

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can understand that this is a really common problem for

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a lot of our service members, and that's upsetting on

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so many levels. The couple had divorced in twenty twenty

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three after several years of significant marital strain. Associated legal

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filings reflect negotiations over parenting time and related safety considerations.

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A September twenty twenty four modification petition and related filings

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requested that overnight time with the girls be restricted and

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that Travis also be required to undergo.

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Mental health treatment.

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Wow, which I think is probably a net positive in

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some respects.

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Are they going to get them help finding the mental

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health treatment or is he just have to go? You know,

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their heart is kind of unclear to me.

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I would assume that when it's sort of like part

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of a court mandate. Yeah, when it's part of a mandate,

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I would think that there are going to be resources

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because if it's mandated, they have to be able to

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measure it, so they have to be able to provide

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you with resources to say this meets the bar. So

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I would assume that there's, you know, resources that are

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being provided to you. I don't have a ton of

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information about like the details of what that looks like.

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But following the couple's divorce, Travis's visitation rights were governed

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by a court order that limited and structured his time

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with the children. On Friday May thirtieth, twenty twenty five,

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Decker arrived at his ex wife's home in the Wenatchee

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area to pick up his three daughters for a scheduled visitation.

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According to the family's attorney, Decker spoke with Whitney for

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approximately fifteen to twenty minutes at the door, engaging in

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what appeared to be normal conversation. Nothing in his demeanor

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stood out as alarming or unusual at the time, nor

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was there any indication that he had planned anything that

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could be characterized as out of the ordinary. So just

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a pretty typical visit. From their interaction, at least, he

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stated that he intended to drop the girls back off

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by eight pm that same evening. When eight pm passed

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without Degger returning the girls, Whitney attempted to contact him

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by phone, no answer. Subsequent calls also went to voicemail.

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She reportedly tried multiple times over the next hour and

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grew increasingly concerned. This behavior was described as uncharacteristic for him,

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even amid their strained co parenting relationship. Court documents would

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later note that the mother expressed immediate and escalating worry

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due to his known mental health challenges and recent instability

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by May thirty first, so the following day, the girls

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were formally declared missing and Washington State Patrol issued an

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endangered missing person alert oh Man. According to my research,

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to issue a Washington State Amber alert, a child under

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eighteen must be confirmed as abducted, an eminent danger of

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death or serious bodily injury. Other descriptive information about a

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potential suspect or vehicle must be available to aid in

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law enforcement efforts to recover the child. Additionally, the report

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must be made to law enforcement and investigated before an

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alert is requested. So you need to have contacted the

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police essentially to file a missing person's report, and only

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then can you request an AMBER alert, which in I

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would say order of operations.

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That probably makes sense.

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Yeah, it's unclear to me why law enforcement declined to

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activate an AMBER alert other than willful ignorance given the

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information at their disposal.

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It's totally making me think of the Pala case, like

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are these kids actually in danger? And you're like, well,

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I don't know, but like this has he threatened them directly?

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Maybe not, but you know, I think we have a

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history and it's documented in the courts that there were concerns.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, And I would say that anytime there is a

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custody situation where the parent has like court mandated structure

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and restrictions placed on their custody agreement, it should be concerning.

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It should cause concern maybe for that child's wellbeing when

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the parent does not stick to the agreed upon schedule.

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I would say that alone, to me almost sparks that,

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like that's concerned learning. Yeah, I get how in allegal

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sentence maybe that doesn't rise to the bar, but I

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think in this case it's a little bit of a

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misfire to say that they didn't meet the criteria. According

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to public reporting, the case did not meet Washington State's

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Amber alert criteria at that time, a decision that later

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drew public scrutiny. As you might imagine, the lack of

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an Amber alert became one of the early controversies surrounding

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the case, as many community members and child's safety advocates

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argued that the combination of a missing parent, three very

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young children, and known mental health concerns should have triggered

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the highest level alert system. It seems to be a

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troubling pattern within the Washington welfare system designed to protect children.

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But don't take my word for it. According to the

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Washington State Standards recent reporting, as a November twenty twenty five,

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deaths and critical injuries in Washington's child welfare system are

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near a record high.

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Oh why.

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Forty five children died or nearly died compared to forty

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nine in the previous year.

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It's too many.

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Yeah, And you know, just having you know, talked about

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the Powell case, I thought, gosh, am I and is

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it is it my perception that seems like God, what

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is going on in Washington State?

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Yeah? And it turns out.

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Like I'm you know, I'm I'm noticing it because I'm

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talking about it and I'm researching it. But there's there

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is something of a pattern, and there there is it

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seems like a little bit of cause for concern because

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we're having these like kind.

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Of peak years. Yeah, so wow.

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On June second, authorities Life located Decker's white pickup truck

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near the Rock Island Campground, a forested area in Shellan County.

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The truck was parked near a wooded embankment in an

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area used by many that frequent that part of the

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Winnatchee National Forest for outdoor recreation. The father, Travis Decker,

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himself was not found at the scene, so his vehicles recovered,

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but he is not present. Tragically, the bodies of the

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three Decker sisters, Peyton, Evelyn, and Olivia were discovered down

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a small embankment near the truck, in a densely wooded

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area not far from the campground. The discovery set off

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a series of investigative steps, including preservation of the crime scene,

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immediate autopsies, and the launch of what became a multi

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agency manhunt for Decker.

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Yeah.

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Now, yeah, yeah, I know it's frustrating. You know, I

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actually I had a conversation with Chris about this case,

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and the frustrating thing is that Amber alert or not.

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It's a possibility that nothing may have changed the outcome.

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But it feels better to know that we did everything

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that we could on the front end. Yeah, so that's

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kind of tough. It may not be realistic to launch

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a manhunt for every single missing child in America, but

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in hindsight, an amber alert doesn't seem like it's asking

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too much. Autopsy results determined that each child died from suffocation,

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and all three deaths were ruled homicides. These findings, combined

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with Decker's disappearance, created a straightforward investigative trajectory. Law enforcement

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agencies began to build a timeline of his movements from

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the time the girls were picked up on May thirtieth

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through period leading up to the discovery of the bodies

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on June second. According to investigative filings, two bloody handprints

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were found on the tailgate of Decker's truck. Oh, and

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this raised a question for me as I was researching,

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because why were there bloody handprints? Well, if all three

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girls were strangled.

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Oh, it was like, I have a lot of questions

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were they whose hand prints? Were they? Right? Childs are adults?

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00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:31.399
Or The truth is that it's likely very difficult to

232
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:34.720
say for certain. Travis may have had an injury that

233
00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:37.879
predated the murders, or that even took place at the

234
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:43.080
time of the crime. Additional forensic evidence in the vicinity

235
00:15:43.159 --> 00:15:48.039
included plastic bags and zip ties. So are they are

236
00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:52.399
presumably his hand prints? Yeah, and it's believed that it

237
00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.279
is his blood. Okay, that's kind of what I'm like,

238
00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:59.200
who else is would it be? But right, yeah, because

239
00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:02.200
it doesn't appear that there's blood evidence related to the girls.

240
00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:08.000
So but that that was a little bit confusing, I think.

241
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:09.720
Right, I'm trying not now, I'm trying not to think

242
00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:13.799
about it too hard because I'm like, what, yeah, what

243
00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:18.039
what do I want to not know in this moment.

244
00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:22.840
Authorities later reported that each child had one or more

245
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.120
plastic bags placed over her head and that their wrists

246
00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.519
had been bound with zip ties. DNA testing conducted by

247
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.159
the Washington State Crime Lab found Decker's DNA on said

248
00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:38.600
plastic bags and zip ties recovered from the scene. No

249
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:43.919
other adult DNA profiles were identified on these items. These

250
00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:50.080
results significantly narrowed investigator's focus reinforcing the conclusion that Decker

251
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:56.159
was the sole perpetrator, because truthfully, if if their father

252
00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:02.240
is missing and you're finding his bloody prints on the truck,

253
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.960
you know, it's entirely possible that they had been attacked

254
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.440
and you know, oh my gosh, what's become of him?

255
00:17:08.599 --> 00:17:12.079
But unfortunately, Yeah, I was thinking, the only other thing

256
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:14.000
I can think of is like someone held a gun

257
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.960
to his head and forced him to do that. But

258
00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.319
then I feel like they might see like footprints or

259
00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.799
any other evidence of anybody else being.

260
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:25.440
There, and they're not finding any other adult DNA profiles

261
00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:30.559
associated with essentially the items used to kill the girls.

262
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:32.960
That seems very unlikely.

263
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:38.240
So it's not very mysterious, but right, yeah, it's disgusting. Yes.

264
00:17:39.319 --> 00:17:43.599
Investigators also found digital forensic evidence indicating that in the

265
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:47.920
days leading up to the killings, Decker conducted multiple online

266
00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.559
searches related to leaving the United States, relocating to Canada

267
00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:55.000
and finding employment across the border.

268
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.359
Why do you need to kill your kids to do that?

269
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.039
Yeah, I don't know if that was a separate, you know,

270
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.440
plot altogether, like maybe he planned to try to flee

271
00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:07.400
the country with them. Hard to say, and you know,

272
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:09.440
at some point the plan changed.

273
00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.759
Just leave. Just leave them, just leave, just leave, just leave.

274
00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:18.039
These searches raised early questions about premeditation and a possible

275
00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:24.039
escape plan. Whether these searches reflected intent or desperation remains

276
00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:30.240
technically unclear, perhaps, but their presence in the digital timeline

277
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:34.799
contributed to the prosecutorial logic in the charges that followed

278
00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:39.359
immediately following the discovery of the bodies, Travis Decker was

279
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:43.440
charged with three counts of aggravated first degree murder and

280
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:48.119
three counts of first degree kidnapping. In addition, federal authorities

281
00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.559
filed an unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charge.

282
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:53.759
Yeah.

283
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:58.160
Yeah, very specific type of charge. Did they find him

284
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.680
yet or this is what he's being charged with? Yeah,

285
00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:02.319
this is just his charges.

286
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:03.440
Yeah.

287
00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:06.920
These charges were based on the combination of forensic evidence,

288
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.920
Decker's disappearance, and the reconstructed timeline of his movements from

289
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:16.440
May thirtieth onward. So, I mean, while we don't know

290
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:21.519
if he really truly had any plan to flee to Canada,

291
00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:25.759
that was the fact that he did that Internet search.

292
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.200
That's what led to the charge because that's another thing

293
00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:33.559
that they can kind of slap on. Yeah. The search

294
00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:37.160
quickly became one of the largest coordinated manhunts in the

295
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.160
region in recent years, and included the US Marshall Service,

296
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:47.200
the FBI, Washington State Patrol, Shelan County Sheriff's Office, and

297
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.000
numerous local search and rescue groups accustomed to operations in

298
00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.839
rugged wilderness terrain, so a lot of bodies involved in

299
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:04.640
the search. These agencies brought together drones, helicopters, canine units,

300
00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:09.920
ground teams, and trackers experienced in wilderness navigation.

301
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:10.759
Wow.

302
00:20:10.960 --> 00:20:13.920
So I mean they they pulled it all out trying

303
00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:17.319
to Yeah. But I think a lot of that had

304
00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:23.519
to do with his It wasn't just his military experience.

305
00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:29.599
He also had some experience kind of living briefly as

306
00:20:29.799 --> 00:20:33.519
like like a survivalist type of situation.

307
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:35.160
Yeah.

308
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:42.240
And he definitely had a lot of outdoor survival like

309
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:46.160
skills and and like I said, you know, some experience

310
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:50.440
to a degree were so he could get away potentially.

311
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:51.319
Yeah.

312
00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:55.519
Yeah, I think that was the concern very much. Decker

313
00:20:55.680 --> 00:21:00.640
was considered exceptionally dangerous for several reasons. Of course, there

314
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:05.759
was his military background and likely familiarity with firearms, though

315
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.000
notably none were found at the crime scene. But you know,

316
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.960
then his documented wilderness experience and his demonstrated ability to

317
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:19.880
survive and travel in remote outdoor environments, I.

318
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.039
Would kind of assume that he just had guns on him, right.

319
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.240
I feel like at a certain point that doesn't feel

320
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:27.720
like a huge leap.

321
00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:30.039
Yeah, Like, of course they're not at the crime scene.

322
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:31.720
Why would he leave his guns there? Right?

323
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.640
Yeah, And they weren't used in the commission of this

324
00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:37.240
particular crime, so it wouldn't make a lot of sense

325
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.640
for them to be found there. But the terrain in

326
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:46.279
which he disappeared includes steep and densely forested areas with

327
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:52.960
rushing creeks and large swaths of roadless wilderness. Throughout the

328
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:57.279
summer of twenty twenty five, teams searched hundreds of miles

329
00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.920
in the area. The manhunt also so expanded beyond Washington

330
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:06.119
at various points based on tips, including one on July

331
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:12.359
fifth from a camping family in Idaho's Sawtooth National Forest.

332
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:18.359
None of these sightings produced confirmed evidence of Decker. The

333
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:23.880
manhunt only extended continuing into September. Despite the enormous search effort,

334
00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:28.599
extensive public coverage, and the distribution of Decker's image across news,

335
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:34.039
social media, and law enforcement bulletins. As the case unfolded,

336
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:40.240
community frustration and public discourse about the alert systems intensified.

337
00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.279
Some lawmakers and child safety advocates questioned whether the endangered

338
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:50.640
Missing Person alert was sufficient and if adjustments to the

339
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:56.039
criteria for AMBER alerts should be made in consideration in

340
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:00.480
situations just such as this, where non custodial pay parents

341
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:07.039
with documented safety concerns failed to return children per established

342
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:08.680
custody agreements.

343
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:11.680
Well, I'm glad they're looking at that and are like, yeah,

344
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.599
do we need to change this?

345
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:17.279
Yeah, I mean so far, I'm not aware of any

346
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:18.440
major changes.

347
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:20.720
Sure, it'll take a minute.

348
00:23:21.079 --> 00:23:24.920
Yeah, the system moves slowly. Yeah, and that's the frustrating

349
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:26.400
part for sure.

350
00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:28.720
But that's good to like, that's why it's good to

351
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.279
have the story out there so everybody knows, like, hey,

352
00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:33.279
if this I don't know if we're going to get

353
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.079
a chance to vote on it or whatever. If it

354
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.200
stays in the government, Yeah, shenanigans, I have no idea,

355
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:41.920
you guys, but yeah, it's good to know what's going on,

356
00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:42.960
like what to look for.

357
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.559
It may not be a ballot measure, it may not

358
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.039
be a vote. But here's the thing is, in so

359
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.400
many ways, even when things don't end up on our ballot,

360
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.039
we are voting because we can apply pressure to the

361
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:59.480
representatives that are able to make changes and that are

362
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:04.920
able to enforce a new set of systems. So it

363
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:09.440
may not be voting in terms of like the ballot box, yeah,

364
00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:12.519
but like the way that we communicate and the way

365
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:17.480
that we approach our representatives about these situations.

366
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.400
Once we have an awareness, that's how we vote.

367
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:23.119
Yeah, that's how we vote with things that aren't ballot measures.

368
00:24:23.680 --> 00:24:26.240
Tell us, Caitlin, I'm telling you.

369
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:33.000
In mid September twenty twenty five, human remains were found

370
00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:37.400
in a remote wooded area south of Leavenworth, less than

371
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.640
a mile from where the Decker sisters had themselves been discovered.

372
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:46.799
What The area where the remains were found is characterized

373
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:51.559
by densely forested and steep terrain with very limited accessibility.

374
00:24:52.599 --> 00:24:56.920
Initial assessments by investigators led them to believe the remains were.

375
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.720
Likely Travis Deckers. Holy shit.

376
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:05.759
Subsequent formal procedures, including forensic documentation, transfer of remains, and

377
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:11.640
laboratory testing, were initiated immediately. On September twenty fourth, twenty

378
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:15.799
twenty five, the US Marshall Service publicly announced that DNA

379
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:20.440
analysis had confirmed the human remains discovered near Grindstone Mountain

380
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:26.640
were those of Travis Caleb Decker. Local authorities stated that

381
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:31.319
the remains were significantly decomposed, and that the degree of

382
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:36.240
decomposition limited their ability to establish a definitive cause of

383
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:42.319
cause or manner of death. Shit Because of this, investigators

384
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.920
have not determined whether Decker died shortly after the murders

385
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.200
in early June or sometime later that summer, or.

386
00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:56.440
Where's bones, where's temperance, Brennan, Let's get her in here out.

387
00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.200
It's tough because sometimes the condition of remains, like we

388
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.839
just there's just questions we're not going to be able

389
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:08.559
to answer. What we do know is that the US

390
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:12.799
Forest Service closed the entire Enchantments and Ice School Creek

391
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:18.839
area beginning initially Thursday, June fifth. The closure was scheduled

392
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:23.039
to extend to June eighteenth, prohibiting public access both to

393
00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:28.359
vehicles and pedestrian foot traffic on trails and roads in

394
00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:33.720
the area. By Saturday, June seventh, over five hundred tips

395
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:37.200
had poured into the Shelane County Sheriff's office from the

396
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:42.039
public as more than one hundred law enforcement workers continued

397
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:46.960
the search for Travis Decker. However, by June eighth, it

398
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:51.200
was determined no credible threat could be confirmed in the area,

399
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:56.400
and the closure order was rescinded before federal authorities took

400
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:01.400
over the search the following day, Monday night. So they

401
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:05.400
had intended to close down this area of the National

402
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:10.880
Park for you know, two weeks essentially, and within not

403
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:13.599
even like over the weekend, it was closed.

404
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.279
Wow, that seems insane to me. There was a murder.

405
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.440
Well, and here's the thing is, it's you know, it's

406
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:25.400
a massive area, and they had already been searching for

407
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:28.240
several days at the point that they decided to close it.

408
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.799
And once they were able to determine that they're not

409
00:27:31.880 --> 00:27:33.599
coming across anything that.

410
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.480
Looks like active trails of Travis.

411
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:40.559
I think they were determining, Okay, we don't have to

412
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:45.720
necessarily be super concerned about him still being in the area.

413
00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:47.480
And causing harm to someone else.

414
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.599
So here's my question, because I came across this as

415
00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:55.920
sort of an interesting little fact about the search, and

416
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:58.279
kind of some of those specifics, it really kind of

417
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:01.799
got my wheels turning. Is it more likely that Travis

418
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:05.559
Decker was to ceased the entire time that authorities had

419
00:28:05.599 --> 00:28:10.480
been searching that area, or that he evaded them long

420
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:15.400
enough to either remain in the area undetected, or because

421
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:18.880
it was only closed to public access for such a

422
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:24.200
short time. Is it possible that he even returned once

423
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:26.480
public access was restored.

424
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:31.119
Yeah, I could see it going any of those ways.

425
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:35.720
Like, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's honestly pretty much

426
00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:40.599
impossible to say for now. I think that remains one

427
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.920
of the many unanswered questions in the case.

428
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:46.599
It's got it so hard to tell too. I was

429
00:28:46.599 --> 00:28:51.039
thinking about like the tips, like, mm, yeah, knows if

430
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:54.279
those people actually you know, because so many people look

431
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:55.160
like other people.

432
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.559
Yeah, And I will say that I I don't know

433
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.440
that I would characterize him as someone that like, oh,

434
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:05.519
you'd know him if you saw him, you know what

435
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.160
I mean. Like there's some people that have like very distinctive,

436
00:29:08.759 --> 00:29:12.279
you know, facial features or you know, like a very

437
00:29:12.319 --> 00:29:13.640
prominent like tattoo.

438
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:14.920
He did have tattoos, but.

439
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:19.680
I don't know that anybody would necessarily like recognize them

440
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:23.680
at a glance. I don't think he's really one of

441
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:27.759
those guys. I will say, some of the various photos

442
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:31.160
that I came across of him over the years, I thought, Wow,

443
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.839
this is interesting because this almost doesn't even look like

444
00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:34.640
the same person.

445
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:35.559
Hmmm.

446
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:41.240
So to me, I'm thinking, Oh, I guess I wonder

447
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:46.200
what picture. Yeah, they're matching too, that really matters too.

448
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:46.960
Yeah.

449
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:50.119
The murders of the Decker sisters became one of the

450
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:53.720
most widely followed criminal cases in Washington.

451
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:54.119
State that year.

452
00:29:54.920 --> 00:30:00.519
Literally this year, the case unfolded across Shelan count the

453
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:05.559
Winnatchie Valley, and eventually the High Country Forest Regions south

454
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:11.480
of Levenworth, which really ruins the cute Christmasy, like seriously

455
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.839
Bavarian village vibe of Levenworth for me, if you could not,

456
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:18.839
I guess this does kind of have in a way

457
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:23.400
like if if you have that association association with Levenworth,

458
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:25.359
it does kind of have a Christmas y vibe.

459
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.200
Which you should because we've talked about during the Christmas

460
00:30:28.279 --> 00:30:34.079
yeah season. Crampis the case unfolded across Shelane County, the

461
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:38.640
Winnachie Valley, and eventually the High Country Forest regions south

462
00:30:38.720 --> 00:30:43.400
of Levenworth. Where a month's long manhunt came to dominate

463
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:48.839
the regional news cycle. But like literally just our regional

464
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:49.559
news cycle.

465
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:53.160
I just there are so many cases where I come

466
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:59.279
across articles from like People magazine or you know, Jessese,

467
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:05.720
like national publications, and there's just not really that. I

468
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:12.000
think so many cases deserve more attention. And it's really hard,

469
00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:15.759
it's really hard, but to look at to look at

470
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:19.680
a picture of these three little girls, all under the

471
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:24.680
age of ten, and say there's not enough intrigue in

472
00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.880
your murder case for people to care for more than

473
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:35.400
you know, a couple of months, and only regionally. Just

474
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.200
I don't, yeah that just you know, and I know,

475
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:43.480
like we're all human and we're just we're just following

476
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.519
our little monkey brains and the dopamine.

477
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.119
And but it just really made me sad.

478
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:54.920
Confirmation of Decker's death effectively ended the active criminal proceedings

479
00:31:55.119 --> 00:31:57.400
because I mean.

480
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:59.759
Yeah, we're already talked about. It's not mysterious. It was

481
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:02.440
up him, right, Well, like.

482
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:06.200
What you're going to pursue charges against a dead guy?

483
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:11.079
I mean, convict him posthumously? I don't very hollow. Shelan

484
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:14.880
County officials described the case as among the most disturbing

485
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:19.279
acts of violence the region had ever confronted. Although the

486
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:25.119
killings themselves are considered solved, numerous questions remain unanswered, most

487
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:28.839
prominently the exact motive for the murders and the precise

488
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:34.440
circumstances of Decker's own death. While the manhunt phase has closed,

489
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:39.680
portions of the investigative record remain open. Crime scene analysis

490
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.720
has continued, and agencies have kept certain files active pending

491
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.440
any further developments or recovered evidence.

492
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:49.640
To date, no co.

493
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:55.000
Suspects have been identified, and no evidence has been publicly disclosed,

494
00:32:55.039 --> 00:33:01.359
suggesting that any other party assisted Decker. Peyton, Evelyn, and

495
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:06.440
Olivia were widely described as bright, warm, and deeply loved

496
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:12.200
members of their community, local schools, neighbors, friends, and extended

497
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:17.759
family participated in vigils, memorials, and community support efforts. A

498
00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:22.000
memorial service for the three sisters was held on June twentieth,

499
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:27.240
twenty twenty five. The girl's mother, Whitney, spoke about their

500
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:32.319
individual personalities, their routines, and her hopes for their futures,

501
00:33:33.079 --> 00:33:37.559
offering a portrait of children who were expressive, affectionate, and

502
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:41.160
enthusiastic about school and family.

503
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:42.519
Life.

504
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:46.160
This memorial became a central moment of shared grief in

505
00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:51.359
the Wanagee and loven Worth communities. Multiple community fundraisers and

506
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:55.839
support networks began raising funds in the aftermath, including a

507
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:01.119
GoFundMe campaign, actually multiple intended to the mother and other

508
00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:08.239
surviving relatives, because funeral services are very expensive. Just to

509
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:16.039
be able to lay all three of your tiny, precious

510
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:21.639
baby daughters to rest. The expense of that, I mean,

511
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:27.039
talk about rubbing salt in a wound. Yeah, I'm glad

512
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:31.840
that she got help with that, because I cannot even imagine.

513
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:34.440
The case of the Decker sisters is one that leaves

514
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:39.159
behind more sorrow than certainty. Although the core facts are

515
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:44.079
tragically established the girl's deaths, the evidence implicating their father,

516
00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:48.159
and the later confirmation of his own death in the wilderness,

517
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:56.199
the deeper questions about motive, mental decline, and timeline remain unresolved.

518
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:59.320
In many ways, what lingers is not just the horror

519
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:02.719
of the crimemates self, but the uncomfortable acknowledgment of all

520
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:08.400
the moments where systems meant to protect vulnerable children proved insufficient.

521
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:13.840
As the community continues to grieve, Peyton, Evelyn and Olivia.

522
00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.840
Their story stands as a solemn reminder of the gaps

523
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:22.760
that still exist in child safety protocols, mental health intervention,

524
00:35:23.559 --> 00:35:28.880
and crisis response. What survives now are the memories carried

525
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:32.559
by their mother, their extended family, and the Wenatchie and

526
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.320
Love and Worth communities who mourned them. The hope, expressed

527
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.400
quietly in vigils, fundraisers, and shared grief, is that their

528
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:46.679
lives and the heartbreaking failures that preceded their deaths will

529
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:53.559
push policy awareness and accountability forward in ways that prevent

530
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:59.599
another tragedy like this from unfolding. Which I really hope

531
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:02.000
that's the case, But it feels really hollow to say

532
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:06.920
that right now, because this is something that has happened,

533
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.320
you know, so many years.

534
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:13.880
After the Powell kits. So what does it take? You know,

535
00:36:14.679 --> 00:36:16.000
it's not that any.

536
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:18.840
Of these cases that we talk about that we expect like,

537
00:36:18.920 --> 00:36:21.920
oh this one we now, we've salved it. Now no

538
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.519
more now, no more children die, right, But it's like,

539
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:28.159
what does it take for a system to have like

540
00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:32.480
some form of like fucking muscle memory. Like it feels

541
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.599
like we're very much in the exact same place.

542
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:39.400
Well, do you want to do some terror about it. Yeah,

543
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.239
maybe we'll get a little bit of a lighter card.

544
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:46.119
I don't know, maybe we'll see I like to get

545
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:47.360
the hopeful cards, you know.

546
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:51.639
Yeah, I'm gonna pull up the pictures too, so I

547
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:55.159
can show you. It's hard to imagine three more adorable

548
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:56.880
children and the entire world.

549
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:59.280
I was just thinking, like, I don't fuck me up.

550
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:00.719
I don't want to see the pictures.

551
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.519
Actually, yeah, well I did, and you do have to.

552
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:14.880
I mean, okay, I do want to see them. Kaitlyn

553
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:20.159
is at our new tarot table. We've got new lighting

554
00:37:20.199 --> 00:37:26.800
on it looks amazing. Her shuffling is divine. The quote

555
00:37:26.840 --> 00:37:31.320
on our letter board here is December is whatever. This

556
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:37.320
is almost over. Oh King of Cups in reverse? Oh,

557
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:39.920
Night of Cups in Reverse? My bad, I cannot read.

558
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:43.960
They both start with K. It's fine. Is that one

559
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.480
the dolphin? I think they look like orchest me, but

560
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:49.199
I think Dolph. Yeah.

561
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:51.880
I think we've had this debate before. Okay, we've had

562
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:57.639
this card a few times. Yeah, okay, let's see. Yeah, okay,

563
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:07.239
So are keywords for the Night of Cups are communication, romance, travel, idealism,

564
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:14.920
and flirtatiousness. Interesting, Yeah, we did get him reverse. Yeah, Okay.

565
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:19.039
When the Night of Cups appears reversed, he may represent

566
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:27.079
insecurity in decision, lack of commitment, and immaturity, especially in relationships.

567
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:32.800
Sometimes he represents broken promises or deceit or an offer

568
00:38:32.840 --> 00:38:36.960
that's not based in reality. If he stands for an

569
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:41.719
actual person, he's someone to avoid. He's not what he seems.

570
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:46.159
He may not even know himself who he is. Even

571
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.719
if his intentions are good, he can't fulfill them.

572
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:56.239
Damn dude. That part specifically is really chilling because we

573
00:38:56.320 --> 00:38:59.519
talked about his PTSD and like, what did that do

574
00:38:59.719 --> 00:39:02.079
to like rewire his brain, you know, to where he

575
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:06.840
wanted to murder his children? Yeah, Like, I'm sure he

576
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:09.320
didn't start out that way, like wanting to do that.

577
00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:11.960
You know, I can't imagine. I mean, god, I would

578
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:16.199
hope not. Okay, I'm going to read the extra excerpts

579
00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:19.760
and then I'll do the interpretation. The Night of Cups

580
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:23.440
is the Night of the Grail legend. The story of

581
00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:27.679
the Grail search is an allegory for seeking truth, beauty,

582
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:33.159
purpose and salvation in life. The Night on a White Horse.

583
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:37.159
Some decks, including the writer Waite Smith and the Thoth

584
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.480
Tarot Show, The Night of Cups, riding a white horse,

585
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.519
a romantic depiction of love, the fairytale night on a

586
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:49.280
white charger, come to carry you away to a fantasy land.

587
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.440
So it kind of makes sense this is in reverse.

588
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.920
Huh. That makes me think of just kind of like

589
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:58.800
his children, like what he told them that day, Like

590
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.760
I like what they thought, you know, and we're gonna

591
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.679
have a good day with dad, you know. Yeah, that's

592
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:06.280
so sad.

593
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:06.960
Uh.

594
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:12.039
The extra excerpt, you said something about searching, like there

595
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.679
was this huge search for him, Like yeah, he was

596
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:18.239
the holy Grail they were searching for, you know, God. Yeah.

597
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:22.519
In a reading about money, this card warns get out

598
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:26.480
while you can. Someone maybe trying to swindle you, or

599
00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:31.719
an investment isn't sound a financial advisor maybe untrustworthy, or

600
00:40:31.719 --> 00:40:34.920
an offer is too good to be true. Well, I

601
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.519
mean considering like just the sheer instability and so many

602
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:43.079
aspects of his life. I feel like not being able

603
00:40:43.079 --> 00:40:44.840
to hold down a job and like.

604
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.320
Yeah, we have kids with someone though you can't really

605
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:51.960
escape that, like you don't really have that option. Yeah,

606
00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:55.519
so you get their custody completely taken away. But even then, like, yeah,

607
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:57.360
there's still a part of your life forever.

608
00:40:59.800 --> 00:41:02.679
If the reading is about your job, the reverse night

609
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.920
can show dishonesty, deviousness, or incompetence, either on your part

610
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:13.119
or that of an employer or colleague. A project may

611
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.639
not get off the ground. If you're considering a job change,

612
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:21.719
this card advises against it. In a reading about love,

613
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:26.320
the night reverse indicates secrets and lies. In a relationship,

614
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:30.920
a partner isn't being open or is conflicted about his

615
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:35.760
or her feelings. Commitment isn't an option. This card may

616
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:39.480
also say you're living in a fantasy world, stop dreaming

617
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:44.360
and get real. I mean, just the sheer, I don't know,

618
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:48.159
the repetitiveness of like get out, stay away, avoid.

619
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:52.320
Yeah, it's like very clear. Yeah, but like I said,

620
00:41:52.360 --> 00:41:55.239
like there's really nothing you can do. She did what

621
00:41:55.320 --> 00:42:01.239
she could do. Yeah, they were separated, they had custody arrangements.

622
00:42:01.280 --> 00:42:05.000
Like she did the most that she could do, so yeah,

623
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:08.639
and unfortunately, like the rest of the safety was kind

624
00:42:08.679 --> 00:42:10.360
of up to the.

625
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:15.079
Other parent, right, Yeah, and to whatever systems are in place,

626
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:17.360
And you can only count on that.

627
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:23.400
So much obviously. Yeah. Okay, okay, so we're not reading

628
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.239
the interpretation in the little Book, but I did want

629
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:29.119
to look up and see it is a Pacific white

630
00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:34.800
sided dolphin, a dulphin. It's a dolphin. Excellent. I was

631
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.880
kind of skimming the poem and it talks about like

632
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:41.719
water and like vast expanse of things, and it reminded

633
00:42:41.719 --> 00:42:44.800
me of like him in the in the woods, possibly

634
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:49.639
like being like a survivalist. Yeah, type of vibe. I

635
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:52.639
think it's the vast expanse. Yeah. I think that's what

636
00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:53.599
does it.

637
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.360
It's like kind of a similar visual even though it's

638
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:57.639
like a different.

639
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:01.320
Like water, but like the water in the forest honestly

640
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.280
are so similar to me because it's like an ocean

641
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:11.199
of trees. Yeah, a tree ocean. Yeah, are ocean. Yeah.

642
00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:13.079
I was gonna say I wish he was a little

643
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.719
more dolphin like, but then I'm like, wait, aren't dolphins

644
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.039
like Actually people say they're kind of aggressive, so like

645
00:43:19.079 --> 00:43:23.559
maybe it doesn't me. It's like you think that they're

646
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.880
I think, no way, but they're kind of not.

647
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:32.719
I think that's why they picked the dolphins for that illustration.

648
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:35.039
I was just thinking that because like the what what

649
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:40.920
did it say? Like the unrealistic expectations, like you think

650
00:43:40.960 --> 00:43:43.760
you're gonna go play with a sweet dolphin and it'll

651
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.519
bite your face off. Yeah, there is something, and I'm

652
00:43:47.559 --> 00:43:48.440
going to go back to it.

653
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:52.280
There's technically two things that I remembered kind of from

654
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:55.880
the interpretation on the card. And this is like in

655
00:43:56.199 --> 00:44:01.800
the actual narrative about the description of the physical card itself.

656
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:05.199
Oh okay, it says, if this night represents an actual person,

657
00:44:05.519 --> 00:44:08.320
blah blah blah blah blah. And the first half is

658
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:11.119
I think things that like we want to associate with dolphins.

659
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:15.840
It says he's probably a young man with a poetic, imaginative,

660
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:21.639
and affectionate nature, and we're like, yes, yeah, dolphins, majestic, affectionate.

661
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:24.679
Oh so you know, yeah, And it says, but he

662
00:44:24.800 --> 00:44:29.800
might not be dependable. And then this part, this is

663
00:44:29.840 --> 00:44:33.639
what it is. Okay, he's not what he seems. He

664
00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:37.440
may not even know himself who he is. Even if

665
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:40.519
his intentions are good, he can't fulfill them.

666
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.440
Yeah, that's because I feel like.

667
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:47.320
I've heard some sneaky stories about dolphins.

668
00:44:48.280 --> 00:44:52.199
Should do a dolphin episode. I mean, if I can

669
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:56.239
find something about dolphin crimes, I mean, we have Pacific

670
00:44:56.239 --> 00:45:00.360
Northwest dolphins, so it'll it'll connect to.

671
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:03.679
Reason surely there's a dolphin out there committing crimes.

672
00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:08.159
Yeah, I think so. I think so hopefully it's not

673
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:12.440
murdering its children. Yeh God, I know, can we all

674
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:15.519
just agree to not ever do that again? Like that

675
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.800
would be so great? Is that that hard? Yeah? I

676
00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:23.320
mean we know everyone listening would never do that. Ever.

677
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:25.360
I know. Here's the thing.

678
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:33.920
I just, as someone who is intentionally child free, I

679
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:40.320
cannot fathom. It goes against every biological impulse that we

680
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:48.400
are wired with, and it's truly, it's baffling and maddening.

681
00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.559
It is, though, But then I think about, like, this

682
00:45:52.599 --> 00:45:54.719
isn't not not like an ex I'm not about to

683
00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:58.480
make like an expense. Where are we going? Not like that?

684
00:45:58.840 --> 00:46:02.159
But I think about like postpartum depression, and then the

685
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:05.199
mothers who go through that, who like want to murder

686
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.159
their children, and some of them actually do. Yeah, Like

687
00:46:08.280 --> 00:46:11.199
obviously there's some chemical thing going around in the brain.

688
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:15.239
And I think I think with like PTSD or like

689
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:19.000
very severe cases of depression, whether it's you know, postpartum

690
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:23.519
or whatever the case may be, it's like we understand

691
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:28.199
like the chemical mechanism, I guess, is what I would say.

692
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:30.239
But yeah, you can't.

693
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:33.119
You still can't really wrap your head around it, if

694
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.559
that makes sense, And that's kind of I'm like, listen,

695
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:37.639
I don't even want.

696
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.000
Kids, but like the idea.

697
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:46.079
Of I cannot fas it does not compute no error

698
00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:46.519
four or.

699
00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:49.840
Four, which which is like, if you're having those thoughts

700
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:53.840
and feelings, you need to be be like responsible and

701
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:58.800
go seek help and hopefully the people around you, you know, that.

702
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:02.599
Help support you in that keeps everybody safe.

703
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:06.400
Yeah, And I feel like, you know, we talked about

704
00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:10.400
like men. I'm not trying to say obviously, what's the

705
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:15.079
other word. Often often like men oftentimes don't want to

706
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:17.159
go to someone and talk about their feelings, and so

707
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:18.599
it's a lot harder.

708
00:47:18.760 --> 00:47:21.000
Yeah, I mean, I do think there's a lot of

709
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:26.960
there's still a lot of stigma in maybe not every community,

710
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.199
but I think a lot of communities, you know, whether

711
00:47:30.280 --> 00:47:34.320
it's national origin, whether it's like you know, other types

712
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:38.280
of specific community. I think gender plays a really big role.

713
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:39.440
In military community.

714
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:43.280
Yeah, there's so many different types or groups of people

715
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:48.239
that like experience the stigma around mental health in really

716
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:54.239
significant ways, and it's detrimental. Man, at a certain point,

717
00:47:54.280 --> 00:47:57.159
you just like kind of run out of words to say,

718
00:47:57.199 --> 00:47:57.960
and you just kind.

719
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.960
Of it's like these people even know like what's going

720
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:04.239
on that they don't actually want to do this. It's

721
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:06.480
just something wrong that I don't know. It's gets wild,

722
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:10.159
like think about think about I always think about myself

723
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:12.239
in that position, Like what if there's a certain one

724
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:14.679
day where I just snap and I want to murder everyone,

725
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:17.440
But like, you know, that's not me. Everyone else knows

726
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:20.239
that's not me. But like what if something just goes

727
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.000
wrong up there? It's yeah, very scary, And those are

728
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:25.360
intrusive thoughts that I have.

729
00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:30.360
Yeah, yeah, no, but I mean situations like this, it

730
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:34.400
can make you kind of fearful of, Like even if

731
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:37.880
not for yourself, You're like, what if you know someone

732
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:42.440
you know? Like the idea of like this happening just

733
00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:47.480
really it just sets your mind off in so many

734
00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:49.159
different directions, and none of.

735
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.760
Them are good. Yeah, it's sad. It's very sad.

736
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:55.480
And I hope that their mother and the rest of

737
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.239
their surviving family is just I really hope they are

738
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:00.360
just receiving.

739
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:03.239
An overwhelming amount.

740
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:08.800
Of you know, just an outreaching outpouring of support from

741
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:13.320
all of their different communities and the parallels.

742
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:13.639
To the Powell case.

743
00:49:13.679 --> 00:49:15.599
That was like, oh my god, I can't believe I'm

744
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:18.920
going to talk about something that's like it's so similar

745
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:20.000
in so many ways.

746
00:49:20.599 --> 00:49:23.719
Like immediately again, I was like, oh my god, Okay, we're.

747
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:26.119
Not talking about anything where there's a child within five

748
00:49:26.840 --> 00:49:31.360
hundred miles for like a while after this, except I'm

749
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:32.239
probably lying.

750
00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:33.599
We'll see.

751
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:36.599
But you know, in the case of Susan Powell, it's

752
00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:42.320
like the loss that her family felt losing her is

753
00:49:42.360 --> 00:49:45.079
just compounded by the loss of the children. And in

754
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:49.000
this case, it's like, you know, for Whitney, the loss

755
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:51.400
of her three kids is compounded by the fact that

756
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:57.159
now she has to live with that forever. Just just awful.

757
00:49:57.920 --> 00:49:59.960
I'm just making a sad face now because I can't,

758
00:50:00.679 --> 00:50:03.960
I know, because because I can't, because my face doesn't

759
00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:06.039
know how to make other faces. Now, are we done

760
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:07.199
with whatever this is? Now?

761
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:11.199
I know, I'm so I'm sorry. Yes, I think it's

762
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:12.880
time to say goodbye to the people.

763
00:50:13.280 --> 00:50:16.800
And you did show me their picture and there were

764
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:21.000
some sweetest little baby angels I ever did see, you know,

765
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:29.199
with their little space bunds. My God, have creepy day.

766
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:34.480
We'll see you next Thursday, because we do this on Thursdays.

767
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:39.239
Now we do what did you? Okay? Bye? Have you heard?

768
00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:41.880
Is that a song or day? I just make that up.

769
00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.079
There's got to be a song that goes. Have you

770
00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:48.639
heard the news? Have you heard the news? I have?

771
00:50:49.719 --> 00:50:54.760
I have? Indeed, Okay, I'm stopping now. I didn't like

772
00:50:54.800 --> 00:50:57.920
the candle. Do you have a lighter? I mean, I

773
00:50:57.960 --> 00:51:00.760
have like two things of matches here. It's not something

774
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.679
we'd play around with. But I'm not are we sure

775
00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:07.119
we want Cassie to play around with them?

776
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.320
I mean, I've never been less sure about anything in

777
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.760
my life, but here we are.

778
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:18.679
Oh that's hardly a success story. I broke it, but

779
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:22.679
it also lit, and then I dropped it. I think

780
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:26.639
that lives in there now. I dropped it again. Why

781
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:30.239
is this so hard? Okay, we're not going to get

782
00:51:30.280 --> 00:51:34.679
scared and drop the light? The lighter? What is it?

783
00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:38.679
Just be calm, you know, I did it. Oh my god,

784
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:42.079
this was a lesson. Just be calm, y'all, and then

785
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:46.639
you get stuff done. It's a miracle. I guess I'm embarrassed.