When Darkness Calls Part Two

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000We continue our journey through the woods deeper into the darkness.200:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,960We still hear its soft and ticing, an unmistakable voice calling to us.300:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,440We keep walking as we ponder how to respond.400:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,160We can hear the sound of something moving in the bushes.500:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,680We cannot see what it is.600:00:20,680 --> 00:00:27,440We quicken our pace, eager to reach the clearing where the final six podcast hosts are waiting.700:00:27,440 --> 00:00:32,120We finally reach the clearing and we see them gathered around a campfire.800:00:32,120 --> 00:00:37,360They are the ones who alleed us into those darkest corners of the human psyche and the900:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,360supernatural realm.1000:00:39,360 --> 00:00:46,200So gather round, dear listener, as the forest darkens around us.1100:00:46,200 --> 00:00:50,720Sandy from Twisted Travel and True Crime is who we see first.1200:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,680She specializes in unsolved murders.1300:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,240A host whose voice is a chilling breeze on a moonless night.1400:00:58,240 --> 00:01:04,080Her stories will take us down dark and twisted paths where we will learn about the dark side1500:01:04,080 --> 00:01:08,160of human nature.1600:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,440Rebecca Gay loved the spooky season.1700:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,560Her home in Mount Pleasant, Trailer Park in Michigan stood out among the sea of tiny1800:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,680homes because it was covered in scarecrow.1900:01:17,680 --> 00:01:23,080With 13 of them adorning her mobile home in tiny yard, Rebecca was excited to take2000:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,360her three-year-old conway, trick-or-treating for the first time.2100:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,440It was a season of first for her, as she had recently acquired her own home, a place she2200:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,280could decorate to her heart's content.2300:01:35,280 --> 00:01:40,240And for Rebecca, scarecrow's were a must have for all Hallows eve.2400:01:40,240 --> 00:01:45,400Her journey hadn't been easy, but at age 24 things were looking up for her.2500:01:45,400 --> 00:01:51,040She and her fiance, Erin, were finally going to move into their very own home.2600:01:51,040 --> 00:01:57,240Rebecca and her son Conway bid farewell to the comfort of Erin's parents' house in August.2700:01:57,240 --> 00:02:02,400With the help of her extended family, they moved into the mobile home she was renting.2800:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,080The move brought her closer to her workplace and to her mother's home, which was a blessing2900:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,200for both of them.3000:02:09,200 --> 00:02:14,240Erin planned to join them once he found a job closer to Rebecca.3100:02:14,240 --> 00:02:19,080Although she lunged for Erin's presence, Rebecca knew she had to be patient.3200:02:19,080 --> 00:02:24,040She relied on her side of the family for support, and they were always there for her.3300:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,560They attended Christ community fellowship church together, where Rebecca's mother was3400:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,240engaged to John White, the pastor.3500:02:32,240 --> 00:02:37,280John became involved in Rebecca's life babysitting Conway and assisting both Rebecca and her3600:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,920mother whenever he could.3700:02:39,920 --> 00:02:42,640He even helped Rebecca set up her new trailer.3800:02:42,640 --> 00:02:47,720They teased her about her spooky decorations and listened to her excitedly talk about Conway's3900:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,040Halloween costume and their plans for the holiday.4000:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,840Rebecca had arranged to work the earliest shift on Halloween day.4100:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,320That way she would have plenty of time to pick up Conway and get him ready for trick or4200:02:59,320 --> 00:03:00,320treating.4300:03:00,320 --> 00:03:07,520However, when Rebecca didn't show up for work that morning, her co-workers grew concerned.4400:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,960She was always punctual, so her absence was unusual.4500:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,160They chide calling her cell phone, but it went straight to voicemail.4600:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,760When she was afraid, they decided to check on her at her house.4700:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,320Her car wasn't in the driveway, but they saw it across the street, backed into some brush4800:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,560behind a local bar.4900:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,600The bar was locked, as was Rebecca's home.5000:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,480Growing increasingly worried, her co-workers contacted her landlord who came to unlock the5100:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,240door.5200:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,920Rebecca was nowhere to be found, but her purse sat on the kitchen table.5300:03:41,920 --> 00:03:46,400It was one of her prized possessions, and she wouldn't go anywhere without it.5400:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,360Her cell phone and keys were missing.5500:03:49,360 --> 00:03:53,840As they searched the house, they noticed the living room carpet was mad at down, except for5600:03:53,840 --> 00:03:58,600one small area, and there were small red stains on it.5700:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,920Alarmed, they called the police and informed Rebecca's family and friends, who immediately5800:04:02,920 --> 00:04:04,560joined in the search.5900:04:04,560 --> 00:04:11,160Thankfully, they discovered that Conway was safe and with his biological father.6000:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,880The police interviewed Rebecca's family and friends, starting with Aaron, who had last spoken6100:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,120to her the night before her disappearance.6200:04:19,120 --> 00:04:24,400He mentioned that they had a pleasant conversation, but when he texted her on Halloween morning,6300:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,280she didn't reply.6400:04:26,280 --> 00:04:30,040It seemed as though the message hadn't gone through at all.6500:04:30,040 --> 00:04:35,080This was unusual as they hadn't been fighting, and Rebecca typically charged her phone,6600:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,560and was responsive.6700:04:37,560 --> 00:04:42,360The police believed Aaron's genuine concern, and cleared him of suspicion.6800:04:42,360 --> 00:04:48,000Next, they turned their attention to Chad, Rebecca's ex and Conway's father.6900:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,320He cooperated with the police, stating that he and Rebecca had been co-parenting well7000:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,640without any major issues.7100:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,880He grew frustrated with the constant questioning, as he wanted to join the search for the7200:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,560person who had taken Rebecca.7300:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,480The police tended to believe him, too, leaving them puzzled.7400:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,440There were no signs of forced entry at Rebecca's home, so the police concluded that Rebecca7500:05:10,440 --> 00:05:15,240had likely been abducted by someone she knew and trusted.7600:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,240As they built a timeline for her disappearance, they discovered that Rebecca was supposed7700:05:19,240 --> 00:05:25,040to meet Chad at a Myers department store parking lot to exchange custody of Conway.7800:05:25,040 --> 00:05:31,680However, John, her soon to be father-in-law, had dropped off Conway instead, without Rebecca7900:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,720informing Chad about the change in plans.8000:05:35,720 --> 00:05:40,440The investigators turned their eyes towards John, who had been actively involved in the search8100:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,480efforts for Rebecca, and had willingly cooperated with the police.8200:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,400They discovered that he was the pastor at the local church, and that he had reached out8300:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,440to his congregation that morning, urging them to assist in the search for Rebecca, and8400:05:54,440 --> 00:05:56,840pray for her safe return.8500:05:56,840 --> 00:06:01,460He said that he had gone to Rebecca's trailer to Baby Sit Conway that morning.8600:06:01,460 --> 00:06:05,820He arrived at 630 and heard Rebecca getting ready for work.8700:06:05,820 --> 00:06:12,020He fell asleep on the couch and was later woken by Conway, and Rebecca had gone.8800:06:12,020 --> 00:06:16,180Given that John was the last person known to have been in Rebecca's presence, the police8900:06:16,180 --> 00:06:19,580requested that he take a polygraph test.9000:06:19,580 --> 00:06:24,420Initially hesitant, John eventually agreed to undergo the test.9100:06:24,420 --> 00:06:28,820Since the police department in Mount Pleasant, Michigan didn't have its own polygraph machine,9200:06:28,820 --> 00:06:34,580they planned to take John to the nearest one, in Lansing, approximately an hour away.9300:06:34,580 --> 00:06:38,980During the drive, the officer who was accompanying him, engaged in small talk, hoping to ease9400:06:38,980 --> 00:06:40,980his nervousness.9500:06:40,980 --> 00:06:45,780The officer asked John about his background in personal life, eventually broaching the9600:06:45,780 --> 00:06:49,340topic of his concerns about the polygraph.9700:06:49,340 --> 00:06:53,820John admitted he was worried because he had a criminal passed, revealing that he had been9800:06:53,820 --> 00:06:58,700involved in an attempted murder case that was ultimately dismissed.9900:06:58,700 --> 00:07:01,740It resulted in a two-year prison sentence.10000:07:01,740 --> 00:07:07,180The thing was, John wasn't telling everything about his past.10100:07:07,180 --> 00:07:12,180Unlike the scarecrows that decorated Rebecca's house, this officer had a brain.10200:07:12,180 --> 00:07:16,140He pulled up John's criminal record, and to his astonishment he discovered the man who10300:07:16,140 --> 00:07:22,100presented himself as a devoted preacher, had a far from saintly passed.10400:07:22,100 --> 00:07:28,340In 1980, when John was just 22 years old and living with his family in Battle Creek, Michigan,10500:07:28,340 --> 00:07:33,900he invited his 17-year-old neighbor, Teresa Atherton, to his basement, under the pretense10600:07:33,900 --> 00:07:36,700of showing her his racetrack.10700:07:36,700 --> 00:07:41,660Teresa, being a kindhearted girl, likely fained interest out of plightness.10800:07:41,660 --> 00:07:46,820However, as she turned to face the racetrack, John viciously stabbed her under the right10900:07:46,820 --> 00:07:48,660shoulder blade.11000:07:48,660 --> 00:07:55,420With a chilling smile on his face, he continued to stab her a total of 14 times, before choking11100:07:55,420 --> 00:08:01,740her, and callously uttering the words, "You're going to go now."11200:08:01,740 --> 00:08:09,020Miraculously, Teresa survived this brutal attack, and John White was arrested.11300:08:09,020 --> 00:08:14,100He did go to jail, and he did only serve two years.11400:08:14,100 --> 00:08:21,700Passed forward to 1994, John was still married to his first wife, despite his troubled past.11500:08:21,700 --> 00:08:24,660Yes, I can't explain that one.11600:08:24,660 --> 00:08:29,860His wife was pregnant with their third child, when John started an affair with a co-worker11700:08:29,860 --> 00:08:31,940named Vicki Wall.11800:08:31,940 --> 00:08:36,140When Vicki suddenly disappeared, suspicion immediately fell on John.11900:08:36,140 --> 00:08:40,460He initially denied any involvement in her disappearance, claiming he had no knowledge12000:08:40,460 --> 00:08:42,060of what happened to her.12100:08:42,060 --> 00:08:46,260However, when he was confronted with surveillance footage showing Vicki getting into a large12200:08:46,260 --> 00:08:51,260pickup truck with a bearded man in the Meyer parking lot he admitted to meeting her, but12300:08:51,260 --> 00:08:53,980insisted he was alive when he left her.12400:08:53,980 --> 00:08:59,300As the detectives continued their investigation, Vicki's relatives looked for her body, convinced12500:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,620she was buried nearby.12600:09:01,620 --> 00:09:06,620Their worst fears were confirmed six weeks later, when a resident stumbled upon a gruesome12700:09:06,620 --> 00:09:08,300scene.12800:09:08,300 --> 00:09:14,340Her body was decomposed and partially covered by a shirt and bra around her neck.12900:09:14,340 --> 00:09:21,100Thoughtopsy couldn't determine the cause of death, but the pathologist believed it was a homicide.13000:09:21,100 --> 00:09:26,060John was charged with murder, however, due to the lack of conclusive evidence and the difficulty13100:09:26,060 --> 00:09:32,580in determining the cause of death, he ultimately pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter.13200:09:32,580 --> 00:09:36,300Police believed that John's motive for killing Vicki was that she was pressuring him about13300:09:36,300 --> 00:09:40,220their affair and maybe she threatened to tell his wife.13400:09:40,220 --> 00:09:45,460The judge recognized John's dangerous nature and sentenced him to the maximum term of eight13500:09:45,460 --> 00:09:48,620to fifteen years in prison.13600:09:48,620 --> 00:09:53,300After serving nearly thirteen years he was released and relocated to Mount Pleasant, where13700:09:53,300 --> 00:10:00,500he took on the persona of Pastor White, fiancee to Sally, and all around good guy, except13800:10:00,500 --> 00:10:02,020he wasn't.13900:10:02,020 --> 00:10:05,980If there was good in John, it was that he would eventually admit to police what he had14000:10:05,980 --> 00:10:09,620done to Rebecca that Halloween morning.14100:10:09,620 --> 00:10:14,100Behind closed doors he had scoured the darkest corners of the internet, immersing himself into14200:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,180poverty and feeding his dark desires.14300:10:17,180 --> 00:10:23,060The screen flickered with images that fascinated and repulsed him, murder and necrophilia,14400:10:23,060 --> 00:10:26,780or consistently on his mind.14500:10:26,780 --> 00:10:31,820That night as Rebecca checked her son into bed and kissed him good night, she had no idea14600:10:31,820 --> 00:10:34,420that it would be for the last time.14700:10:34,420 --> 00:10:38,700At two in the morning she was sleeping peacefully when she was startled awake by a chilling14800:10:38,700 --> 00:10:41,020sound in a sense of panic.14900:10:41,020 --> 00:10:46,380She walked out of her room, her heart pounding in her chest, worried that her son was up,15000:10:46,380 --> 00:10:48,180or something worse.15100:10:48,180 --> 00:10:53,380In a horrifying instant John pounced on her, his face contorted with the mixture of madness15200:10:53,380 --> 00:10:55,660and sadistic pleasure.15300:10:55,660 --> 00:11:00,900He held a rubber mallet in his hand and with brutal force he struck her repeatedly.15400:11:00,900 --> 00:11:05,100Her cries for help were drowned out by the sickening thud of the mallet as it connected15500:11:05,100 --> 00:11:07,220with her head.15600:11:07,220 --> 00:11:11,580Rebecca in the midst of the brutal attack recognized her assailant.15700:11:11,580 --> 00:11:16,780She managed to utter the words "I know you" before John tightened a zip tie around her neck,15800:11:16,780 --> 00:11:18,260strangling her.15900:11:18,260 --> 00:11:21,100Then he had his way with her.16000:11:21,100 --> 00:11:25,940John's true nature came to the surface in the early hours of Halloween morning, leaving16100:11:25,940 --> 00:11:29,700Sally Rebecca's mother in a state of profound shock.16200:11:29,700 --> 00:11:33,980Not only had she lost her beloved daughter, but she found out that she had fallen in love16300:11:33,980 --> 00:11:36,580with the murder.16400:11:36,580 --> 00:11:40,940In the courtroom as the judge pronounced the sentence, John gazed around the room with16500:11:40,940 --> 00:11:46,220an unsettling detachment, seeming unaffected by the pain he had inflicted on Rebecca and16600:11:46,220 --> 00:11:48,060her loved ones.16700:11:48,060 --> 00:11:56,260The judge handed down a severe sentence, condemning him to between 56 and 85 years in prison.16800:11:56,260 --> 00:12:01,140You are safe from John Douglas White this Halloween, but be aware of all the other ghosts,16900:12:01,140 --> 00:12:03,540ghouls, and things that go bump in the night.17000:12:03,540 --> 00:12:07,220If you'd like to hear more details about this case, I'd like to invite you to listen to17100:12:07,220 --> 00:12:12,340the extended version called The Devil Disguise, the murder of Rebecca Gay.17200:12:12,340 --> 00:12:16,940Thanks for listening to Twisted Travel on True Crime and for all the good things you do17300:12:16,940 --> 00:12:19,100to support these podcasts.17400:12:19,100 --> 00:12:23,980I wish you all fair winds following seas in the safest of Halloween nights.17500:12:23,980 --> 00:12:32,700Niki and Mariah, the hosts of Body to Vereal, speak each week to experts who have seen and17600:12:32,700 --> 00:12:36,260heard things that will make our blood run cold.17700:12:36,260 --> 00:12:42,260Their tails are like a pair of haunting eyes, ever watching in the darkness, ready to reveal17800:12:42,260 --> 00:12:52,500the truth behind the unexplained incrims, in death, and in what might happen after.17900:12:52,500 --> 00:12:58,620Last week's episode, I think you're just going to be so excited about it.18000:12:58,620 --> 00:13:06,620I feel like it speaks to your soul and I'm really excited for you to hear it and participate.18100:13:06,620 --> 00:13:12,220We have two gentlemen joining us today, which I guess is actually another Body to Vereal18200:13:12,220 --> 00:13:13,820first for us.18300:13:13,820 --> 00:13:16,660We have a duo.18400:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,140We have Matthew.18500:13:18,140 --> 00:13:22,060Matthew is a Chicago Fire Department firefighter.18600:13:22,060 --> 00:13:27,140We have David who is a Chicago police officer.18700:13:27,140 --> 00:13:32,300I'm sure you're wondering why do we have a firefighter and a police officer?18800:13:32,300 --> 00:13:34,380Why am I so stressed about that?18900:13:34,380 --> 00:13:35,620Yeah, right.19000:13:35,620 --> 00:13:36,620Right.19100:13:36,620 --> 00:13:42,100Well, the dynamic duo of Matt and David, they also have a little side hustle, which you know19200:13:42,100 --> 00:13:43,100I love.19300:13:43,100 --> 00:13:44,100Uh-huh.19400:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,100Hair and normal investigators.19500:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,900I love that.19600:13:47,900 --> 00:13:49,900You know I love that.19700:13:49,900 --> 00:13:50,900Yeah.19800:13:50,900 --> 00:13:51,900What?19900:13:51,900 --> 00:13:53,460Mary, all the fun stuff.20000:13:53,460 --> 00:13:55,980All I want to do right now is sing the Ghost Busters.20100:13:55,980 --> 00:14:01,380The fun, but I won't do that for listeners, but it's literally on loop in my brain right20200:14:01,380 --> 00:14:02,380now.20300:14:02,380 --> 00:14:03,380Oh my God.20400:14:03,380 --> 00:14:07,260No, that is really a different side hustle than what their normal job is.20500:14:07,260 --> 00:14:08,260That's incredible.20600:14:08,260 --> 00:14:09,260Right.20700:14:09,260 --> 00:14:10,260Actually, yes.20800:14:10,260 --> 00:14:11,260So, super pumped.20900:14:11,260 --> 00:14:12,740Oh, you know I love ghost stuff.21000:14:12,740 --> 00:14:13,740Okay.21100:14:13,740 --> 00:14:14,740Yeah, I'm excited.21200:14:14,740 --> 00:14:16,140Well, let me go grab them.21300:14:16,140 --> 00:14:17,140Oh, okay.21400:14:17,140 --> 00:14:22,020Hello, Matthew, David.21500:14:22,020 --> 00:14:23,020Can you hear us?21600:14:23,020 --> 00:14:24,020This is Dave.21700:14:24,020 --> 00:14:25,020Can you hear me?21800:14:25,020 --> 00:14:26,020Yay.21900:14:26,020 --> 00:14:27,020Yes.22000:14:27,020 --> 00:14:28,020Hello.22100:14:28,020 --> 00:14:29,020Hi.22200:14:29,020 --> 00:14:30,020And I'm on to.22300:14:30,020 --> 00:14:31,020Yay.22400:14:31,020 --> 00:14:32,020Hi Matt.22500:14:32,020 --> 00:14:33,020Thank you both for taking the time to talk to us.22600:14:33,020 --> 00:14:34,860I appreciate you indulging in our request to have you guys.22700:14:34,860 --> 00:14:38,060Nikki is obsessed with paranormal shows.22800:14:38,060 --> 00:14:39,060Yeah.22900:14:39,060 --> 00:14:40,060All the shows.23000:14:40,060 --> 00:14:43,220And so this is really exciting for her to have you guys.23100:14:43,220 --> 00:14:44,220Yeah.23200:14:44,220 --> 00:14:45,220I really am.23300:14:45,220 --> 00:14:46,220Awesome.23400:14:46,220 --> 00:14:52,820I think the first question we have to get out of the way is how did this come about?23500:14:52,820 --> 00:14:59,780I call it a side hustle, but how did you guys go from being firefighter, police officer to23600:14:59,780 --> 00:15:02,900deciding to investigate paranormal activities?23700:15:02,900 --> 00:15:04,940How do you even get into that?23800:15:04,940 --> 00:15:05,940What sparks the idea?23900:15:05,940 --> 00:15:07,700Well, Matt, do you want to start?24000:15:07,700 --> 00:15:08,700Yeah, sure.24100:15:08,700 --> 00:15:14,180So me and Dave met Dave had already been investigating and I was actually out on the street24200:15:14,180 --> 00:15:16,180with the fire truck.24300:15:16,180 --> 00:15:20,100And I was acting for Make a Wish, you know, Shake the Bood, collect the money for kids and24400:15:20,100 --> 00:15:21,100stuff like that.24500:15:21,100 --> 00:15:25,620And David rolled up in the what we call Misty, which is our command center.24600:15:25,620 --> 00:15:26,620I saw his police shirt.24700:15:26,620 --> 00:15:29,840Now you know, like what kind of special, I thought it was like a special unit with the Chicago24800:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,840police department.24900:15:30,840 --> 00:15:31,840So I'm like, Oh, what's going on here?25000:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,840Who are you?25100:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,620And he goes, I'm not sure if you believe it or not, but I'm a paranormal investigator.25200:15:35,620 --> 00:15:37,100And I'm like, get out of here.25300:15:37,100 --> 00:15:43,500You know, we had like two, like maybe 30 seconds to a minute to actually converse because25400:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,420it was like the light had turned green.25500:15:45,420 --> 00:15:47,700He was off to his, one of his other jobs.25600:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,380I went back to collecting and I thought about it later.25700:15:50,380 --> 00:15:51,460I sent Dave an email.25800:15:51,460 --> 00:15:52,460I looked them up.25900:15:52,460 --> 00:15:56,220I looked up all his evidence and I had been interested in the paranormal.26000:15:56,220 --> 00:15:57,700Never really did any investigations.26100:15:57,700 --> 00:16:02,260So I looked up his stuff and looked them up, sent them an email, say, Hey, I'd love to join26200:16:02,260 --> 00:16:03,260you.26300:16:03,260 --> 00:16:04,420You know, check out an investigation.26400:16:04,420 --> 00:16:09,700And I think maybe a month or two something came up and yeah, so it's been, I don't even26500:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,460know how long that's been maybe eight years.26600:16:11,460 --> 00:16:12,460Dave.26700:16:12,460 --> 00:16:13,460It's right.26800:16:13,460 --> 00:16:14,820Yeah, last track, but something like that.26900:16:14,820 --> 00:16:19,300So then how did you, I know, it's going to sound like what is that six cents like I see dead27000:16:19,300 --> 00:16:25,500people, but like, how did you even get into that like where you could know how to do it?27100:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,500All that stuff.27200:16:26,500 --> 00:16:33,820I've become, we've kept, I'm still skeptical of course, because that's what I have to be.27300:16:33,820 --> 00:16:37,020You know, I got to be even even I am at times.27400:16:37,020 --> 00:16:38,780You can't be all in paranormal.27500:16:38,780 --> 00:16:40,180You got to look at both angles.27600:16:40,180 --> 00:16:42,300But I have to see it to believe it.27700:16:42,300 --> 00:16:46,940And then one of the first full body apparition that we captured on camera was like, it put my27800:16:46,940 --> 00:16:47,940mind.27900:16:47,940 --> 00:16:48,940I like it.28000:16:48,940 --> 00:16:51,180I couldn't believe it because I was like, yeah, like I was there.28100:16:51,180 --> 00:16:52,180I knew what was going on.28200:16:52,180 --> 00:16:55,180I mean, we didn't see it physically with our eyes.28300:16:55,180 --> 00:16:58,780Actually, I wasn't even in the room when it happened, but David took it to take a series28400:16:58,780 --> 00:17:04,540of pictures with full spectrum camera and later on through evidence review, he finds28500:17:04,540 --> 00:17:06,820this like full body shadow.28600:17:06,820 --> 00:17:07,820No.28700:17:07,820 --> 00:17:12,500Yeah, it almost looked like a civil war soldier or somebody in a jumpsuit.28800:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,260It was an old, it was a building that used to be used.28900:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,780And that's right.29000:17:16,780 --> 00:17:19,580Yeah, the, the, the angle would alarm office.29100:17:19,580 --> 00:17:20,580Yeah.29200:17:20,580 --> 00:17:21,980That is so interesting to me.29300:17:21,980 --> 00:17:27,700Do people call you and say, Hey, I think my house is haunted or you just kind of go to different,29400:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,380kind of known both.29500:17:29,380 --> 00:17:37,060I've been in a lot of, a lot of emails all the time from Facebook messages to the website,29600:17:37,060 --> 00:17:39,060emails, word of mouth.29700:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,980And you know, when I first started this, I used to try to go to all of them, but it just can't29800:17:42,980 --> 00:17:48,260do it because with Matt, myself and some of the other members, you know, sometimes we've29900:17:48,260 --> 00:17:49,260got to take off work.30000:17:49,260 --> 00:17:54,260It's costing money, you know, using a vacation day or we can do it.30100:17:54,260 --> 00:17:58,780So we try to pick and choose which ones are important or which ones we would really like30200:17:58,780 --> 00:17:59,780to go to.30300:17:59,780 --> 00:18:04,900And then after doing an investigation, it takes days, weeks to go through everything and30400:18:04,900 --> 00:18:06,500match everything up.30500:18:06,500 --> 00:18:11,260So we try to pick and choose the ones that need help, you know, the good ones.30600:18:11,260 --> 00:18:15,700So because I had, I, I told Mariah this a really long time ago, but I had an apartment.30700:18:15,700 --> 00:18:20,740I moved out of it two months early because I swear I was haunted and then one of my, it30800:18:20,740 --> 00:18:21,980really was, I swear.30900:18:21,980 --> 00:18:26,940And then one of my friends from work, she was telling me to like, sage the place and then31000:18:26,940 --> 00:18:29,300she was telling me to tell it to go to the light.31100:18:29,300 --> 00:18:33,700So I turned on the TV as loud as I could because I was afraid it was going to tell me31200:18:33,700 --> 00:18:36,700no.31300:18:36,700 --> 00:18:45,460And so I did that and nothing happened, but I got, I got a dog and after I got my dog, things31400:18:45,460 --> 00:18:48,820kind of settled down a little bit, but I still moved out early.31500:18:48,820 --> 00:18:52,940And then when you guys like say you went to my apartment and you're like, yeah, there's31600:18:52,940 --> 00:18:54,580a creeper in here.31700:18:54,580 --> 00:18:57,980What would you do to get them to try and go away?31800:18:57,980 --> 00:19:01,660Well, you know, depending on what your beliefs are, there's different things you can do,31900:19:01,660 --> 00:19:05,300but when it comes to like apartments, you might have to do a daily, weekly, monthly, you32000:19:05,300 --> 00:19:10,060had to see what works, but usually when we cleanse our self, our equipment and stuff after32100:19:10,060 --> 00:19:15,020an investigation, we use white sage, we use polisanto, holy wood.32200:19:15,020 --> 00:19:19,700And then I have what is called dragons blood is basically sage, but it's, it's like a, has32300:19:19,700 --> 00:19:23,260a reddish tint to it and it's a little, little more kick to it.32400:19:23,260 --> 00:19:24,260Okay.32500:19:24,260 --> 00:19:25,260I'll use anything.32600:19:25,260 --> 00:19:26,260I'll use it all.32700:19:26,260 --> 00:19:27,260It doesn't.32800:19:27,260 --> 00:19:33,420I also have a frankincense and mirth that that's what a lot of the churches use, you know,32900:19:33,420 --> 00:19:37,100especially when it comes to like a, you know, a funeral in a body pass.33000:19:37,100 --> 00:19:43,020And if you see like the priest of the pastor with the incense going around the body and33100:19:43,020 --> 00:19:47,460it can't, most of the time that's like frankincense and mirth.33200:19:47,460 --> 00:19:52,460So sometimes I'll use that maybe for a spirit to go into the light to go to the next step.33300:19:52,460 --> 00:19:58,020Have you ever encountered evil, I guess, because they're probably just like, you know, grandma33400:19:58,020 --> 00:20:03,140that passed and she likes her house and she's hanging out or, you know, but then there's also33500:20:03,140 --> 00:20:06,060the dangerous see type ones, I guess.33600:20:06,060 --> 00:20:07,060Yeah.33700:20:07,060 --> 00:20:11,540A few, in two I experienced it myself and like just met pretty much the same way, correct,33800:20:11,540 --> 00:20:15,860until we experience their self, you know, I'll keep an open mind, but sometimes I'll33900:20:15,860 --> 00:20:19,100be like, oh, that's full of beep, you know, I don't.34000:20:19,100 --> 00:20:23,580But once I experienced it or it comes something close to it then I'm like, oh my God, there's34100:20:23,580 --> 00:20:24,580something to that.34200:20:24,580 --> 00:20:25,580Yeah.34300:20:25,580 --> 00:20:31,180Yeah, there's a few cases that open my eyes that there's, looks like there's evil out there.34400:20:31,180 --> 00:20:37,060And from my experiences dealing with different psychic mediums that I trust and stuff, you know,34500:20:37,060 --> 00:20:41,860whatever the reason is, there's, you got earthbound spirits and then you got more sinister34600:20:41,860 --> 00:20:45,220or evil stuff if that's what, you know, that's what you believe.34700:20:45,220 --> 00:20:46,820That's what I'm telling you to believe now.34800:20:46,820 --> 00:20:47,820Okay.34900:20:47,820 --> 00:20:53,860But earthbound is just for whatever reason, the spirits did not move on to the next step.35000:20:53,860 --> 00:20:58,180Whatever you decide that next step is they just stayed earthbound and then they say if you35100:20:58,180 --> 00:21:01,580haven't moved on to the next step, you know, in your earthbound, you're going to be that35200:21:01,580 --> 00:21:03,380same person you were when you were living.35300:21:03,380 --> 00:21:08,660So if you were a crevio old man or only in your house, they might be treating you the35400:21:08,660 --> 00:21:10,580same way, you know?35500:21:10,580 --> 00:21:11,580Yeah.35600:21:11,580 --> 00:21:14,460So I do get a lot of getouts, get out of here, get out.35700:21:14,460 --> 00:21:17,100So that's probably the old man thinking I'm trespassing.35800:21:17,100 --> 00:21:18,100How is that?35900:21:18,100 --> 00:21:22,380Oh, yeah, like where you can hear, like where you can hear something that says like get36000:21:22,380 --> 00:21:23,380out.36100:21:23,380 --> 00:21:24,380Yes, they get that a lot.36200:21:24,380 --> 00:21:27,980No, that has helped me and a lot of getouts.36300:21:27,980 --> 00:21:32,500And when you hear, like weeks later, when you do your finish the investigation, that's when36400:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,140you're listening to the getouts, or can you hear it right then and there?36500:21:36,140 --> 00:21:38,100You know, there is times.36600:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,620It's not often, but there's times, especially if you're a little more sensitive, like36700:21:41,620 --> 00:21:46,220sometimes it seems like I'm able to tune in a little more than some of the other people36800:21:46,220 --> 00:21:51,940where I could hear my own ears, but there's times you get to hear stuff with your own ears,36900:21:51,940 --> 00:21:56,300disembodied voices that comes through strong where you don't need the frequencies of the37000:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,020voice recorders or, you know, the mics picking it up sometimes were able to hear it, but37100:22:00,020 --> 00:22:01,020there's something out there.37200:22:01,020 --> 00:22:04,980You know, I think it's spirits, but if not, maybe it's another dimension of some type37300:22:04,980 --> 00:22:10,580or we're tapping into something, but there's definitely, you know, I say you would agree37400:22:10,580 --> 00:22:14,380Matt, there's intelligent spirits or whatever you want to call it out there that can37500:22:14,380 --> 00:22:19,820you communicate back and there's a trapped energy residual energy that no matter if you37600:22:19,820 --> 00:22:24,500there are not, it's going to make that same noise, same footsteps, same door open.37700:22:24,500 --> 00:22:29,980Is this for some reason some energy is being trapped in that area or that house or whatever37800:22:29,980 --> 00:22:31,700one I call it that room?37900:22:31,700 --> 00:22:34,420And you think that's they've already gone.38000:22:34,420 --> 00:22:39,420Let's just say to the light or like beyond, but their energy a little bit of their energies38100:22:39,420 --> 00:22:40,420there.38200:22:40,420 --> 00:22:45,100So I'll give you an example of on a case that we handled.38300:22:45,100 --> 00:22:50,660I don't think you were at that one, Matt, but there was a house in Wisconsin where this lady38400:22:50,660 --> 00:22:55,340was complaining about a male spirit, the wheeling against the fireplace from the fireplace38500:22:55,340 --> 00:23:00,020that would go down the hallway to her room, stand over her and then back to the fireplace.38600:23:00,020 --> 00:23:01,020That's the route it would take.38700:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,020And she could see him.38800:23:03,020 --> 00:23:04,020Yes.38900:23:04,020 --> 00:23:05,020I guess the physical thing.39000:23:05,020 --> 00:23:06,020Yes.39100:23:06,020 --> 00:23:07,020Okay.39200:23:07,020 --> 00:23:11,500So she had the same spirit at the house you lived in before.39300:23:11,500 --> 00:23:12,740So she moved to this new house.39400:23:12,740 --> 00:23:17,460She was our six months still experiencing that spirit among other stuff that I could get39500:23:17,460 --> 00:23:18,460into later.39600:23:18,460 --> 00:23:24,500But, but anyway, when we were there were investigating somehow we linked this fireplace.39700:23:24,500 --> 00:23:27,220It was a fake fireplace and she was an artist.39800:23:27,220 --> 00:23:32,260So she saw it on the curbside at her old place and didn't know really the history on it.39900:23:32,260 --> 00:23:38,020She said, oh, this is a nice piece of art, you know, and she fixed it up and from that place40000:23:38,020 --> 00:23:40,660brought it to her in her place and had this male spirit.40100:23:40,660 --> 00:23:46,900So we linked that this male spirit was attached to this piece, you know, the fireplace.40200:23:46,900 --> 00:23:47,900Oh, yeah.40300:23:47,900 --> 00:23:52,980So that night she had a skit rid of it and from that point on she never saw it again.40400:23:52,980 --> 00:23:57,300But we found out later interviewing old neighbors that the guy who made this piece committed40500:23:57,300 --> 00:24:00,700suicide and this was his favorite piece.40600:24:00,700 --> 00:24:04,540And then when he once he died, you know, they removed all his belongings and put them on40700:24:04,540 --> 00:24:07,660the curb and earns whatever and that's when she picked it up.40800:24:07,660 --> 00:24:13,620But so that that male spirit who committed suicide was attached to this favorite piece.40900:24:13,620 --> 00:24:14,620This is a favorite piece.41000:24:14,620 --> 00:24:15,620Yeah.41100:24:15,620 --> 00:24:16,620Does that happen a lot?41200:24:16,620 --> 00:24:18,460Because I've heard of that too.41300:24:18,460 --> 00:24:22,260That's why my husband's like never get anything from a flea market.41400:24:22,260 --> 00:24:26,020Yeah, I'm cautious myself when it comes to that.41500:24:26,020 --> 00:24:31,900But they say some of the mediums that we deal with and, you know, I can't say works 100%41600:24:31,900 --> 00:24:38,060they preach that if you get it by anything you use any antics, aggride sales, have a bottle41700:24:38,060 --> 00:24:43,860filled with water and sea salt, a spray bottle and spray the item before putting it in your41800:24:43,860 --> 00:24:48,500car and they kind of compare it to like if you're cooking with a tough land pan, how41900:24:48,500 --> 00:24:50,060nothing sticks to it.42000:24:50,060 --> 00:24:54,020So when you coat it with the sea salt and water, that energy is supposed to slide.42100:24:54,020 --> 00:24:55,020Yeah.42200:24:55,020 --> 00:24:59,660That's because that just reminded me of what I was going to ask you before was can anything42300:24:59,660 --> 00:25:02,460come home with you like get attached to you.42400:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,460Yes.42500:25:03,460 --> 00:25:05,460I wasn't a believer in that.42600:25:05,460 --> 00:25:06,460I thought that was full of crap.42700:25:06,460 --> 00:25:07,460Excuse my expression.42800:25:07,460 --> 00:25:14,820But until I experienced it myself, at least a handful of times and it took that to get42900:25:14,820 --> 00:25:20,660me into staging and protecting myself, family, you know, all their team members with, you43000:25:20,660 --> 00:25:24,380know, staging after an investigation because it's been a handful of times.43100:25:24,380 --> 00:25:29,820I think I had nothing bad, you know, even one time I had a family over from out of state43200:25:29,820 --> 00:25:33,940and they experienced it too and never had a problem in my house until I, you know, started43300:25:33,940 --> 00:25:39,100this and it's just something like my very first investigation where I had something follow43400:25:39,100 --> 00:25:40,100me.43500:25:40,100 --> 00:25:45,300I think it's something that I knew they knew I saw it or heard it and just wanted to continue43600:25:45,300 --> 00:25:46,300to communicate.43700:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,580So it's tugging me, tugging my shirt.43800:25:49,580 --> 00:25:50,580This is all new to me.43900:25:50,580 --> 00:25:54,660I've been like a little baby to my wife.44000:25:54,660 --> 00:25:59,620You know, I remember I was in the kitchen and we just had the basement already done with44100:25:59,620 --> 00:26:04,420a nice family room and stuff put down there and I'm in the kitchen.44200:26:04,420 --> 00:26:09,420I think I was cooking dinner and I get like three or four tugs on my shirt.44300:26:09,420 --> 00:26:13,780I mean, really hard where it's pulling them like and I jump and I look, you know, and44400:26:13,780 --> 00:26:17,900I look and there's no one around and there's nothing I could have got hooked on and I44500:26:17,900 --> 00:26:24,740was like a Scooby-Doo, you know, running down and this is just having a meeting, you know,44600:26:24,740 --> 00:26:29,940and you know, you're only human until you start experiencing it, but I was in the shower44700:26:29,940 --> 00:26:35,580and I hear a male voice whispering in my ear and this was from the same investigation.44800:26:35,580 --> 00:26:37,620But I jumped out like a little kid.44900:26:37,620 --> 00:26:41,980I hate to admit, but I turned down the shower curtains and I was just stunned.45000:26:41,980 --> 00:26:44,980I'm like, what the hell is going on here?45100:26:44,980 --> 00:26:51,140So, yeah, it took that for me to start learning, you know, through the help of the psychic mediums45200:26:51,140 --> 00:26:56,580we deal with how to protect myself, you know, the house, my wife, daughter.45300:26:56,580 --> 00:27:00,880Yeah, the last thing I want to do is bring something home and then have them, you know, being45400:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,880bothered with stuff.45500:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,060So, you know, it's a matter of telling them, okay, I know you're here.45600:27:06,060 --> 00:27:07,060You're not welcome.45700:27:07,060 --> 00:27:08,060It's time for you to leave.45800:27:08,060 --> 00:27:13,500You know, very respectful because you know, it could be someone's mother, father, grandfather,45900:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,500whatever.46000:27:14,500 --> 00:27:19,180And also, talk to you like you and I are talking and just, you know, sometimes you have to give46100:27:19,180 --> 00:27:24,580it demands and then go through the process of the staging every room, every corner of the46200:27:24,580 --> 00:27:29,140room and, you know, there's certain ways of doing things and, you know, tell it to leave46300:27:29,140 --> 00:27:31,100and it was no problem.46400:27:31,100 --> 00:27:32,860I never experienced it again.46500:27:32,860 --> 00:27:34,420Does it usually leave?46600:27:34,420 --> 00:27:36,420Like, well, is that normal?46700:27:36,420 --> 00:27:39,180Like for it to go with doing all those steps?46800:27:39,180 --> 00:27:40,180Yeah, it depends.46900:27:40,180 --> 00:27:47,140They say, and like I said, I can't prove this, but this is what I've been told, you know,47000:27:47,140 --> 00:27:51,940for people in that field, the psychic mediums that go to cleansing, you know, cleansing47100:27:51,940 --> 00:27:57,900homes and stuff, they say you can't force an unwilling earthbound spirit to leave.47200:27:57,900 --> 00:28:01,340Either things you could do to decrease its energy with staging.47300:28:01,340 --> 00:28:05,420You might maybe force it out of the house, but it could possibly come back.47400:28:05,420 --> 00:28:08,460This is why you got to continue.47500:28:08,460 --> 00:28:15,340Melissa and Daniel from Tildeth, DOS Partt podcast, study the murders, myths and legends of the47600:28:15,340 --> 00:28:16,340world.47700:28:16,340 --> 00:28:21,940They bring revealing tales of restless spirits that drift through the darkness, like this47800:28:21,940 --> 00:28:26,860one, yearning to find their way home.47900:28:26,860 --> 00:28:31,620Hello, and welcome to Tildeth, DOS Partt.48000:28:31,620 --> 00:28:32,940I am Daniel.48100:28:32,940 --> 00:28:35,060And I'm his lovely wife, Melissa.48200:28:35,060 --> 00:28:36,300Yes, she is.48300:28:36,300 --> 00:28:42,960Now I usually tell Daniel and our 11 listeners true crime cases involving couples whose48400:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,540love story eventually turned into murder.48500:28:47,540 --> 00:28:54,060But today I'm going to share with all of you a haunting, the haunting of the Banff Springs48600:28:54,060 --> 00:28:59,580Hotel, which is now known as the Fairmont Banff Springs.48700:28:59,580 --> 00:29:00,580Banff.48800:29:00,580 --> 00:29:03,340Say that without spitting.48900:29:03,340 --> 00:29:04,540Banffa.49000:29:04,540 --> 00:29:06,540I want to go.49100:29:06,540 --> 00:29:07,540Is that expensive?49200:29:07,540 --> 00:29:08,540Yeah.49300:29:08,540 --> 00:29:09,540Nope, I don't want to go anymore.49400:29:09,540 --> 00:29:16,820This majestic hotel is located in Canada's Rocky Mountains in the heart of Banff National49500:29:16,820 --> 00:29:20,180Park in Banff, Alberta, Canada.49600:29:20,180 --> 00:29:22,940How many more times are you going to say Banffa?49700:29:22,940 --> 00:29:25,700Hopefully no more because I can hardly say it.49800:29:25,700 --> 00:29:26,700Oh my gosh.49900:29:26,700 --> 00:29:34,140It was opened in 1888 by the Canadian Pacific Railway as a retreat for traveling businessmen.50000:29:34,140 --> 00:29:42,020The original structure was a five-story wood frame and was able to accommodate 280 guests.50100:29:42,020 --> 00:29:46,460The hotel drew its water from the nearby natural springs.50200:29:46,460 --> 00:29:51,660The pipe system filled the hotel's pool with thermal spring water.50300:29:51,660 --> 00:29:53,020Oh, that's kind of awesome.50400:29:53,020 --> 00:29:54,500That sounds lovely.50500:29:54,500 --> 00:30:00,900A luxurious oasis for only $3.50 a night.50600:30:00,900 --> 00:30:01,900Deal.50700:30:01,900 --> 00:30:06,580What is it $120 a day to stay there?50800:30:06,580 --> 00:30:07,580It is not.50900:30:07,580 --> 00:30:08,580I just looked it up.51000:30:08,580 --> 00:30:10,780It's about $500 to $600 a night.51100:30:10,780 --> 00:30:11,780What?51200:30:11,780 --> 00:30:12,780But it is Halloween.51300:30:12,780 --> 00:30:13,780It is October.51400:30:13,780 --> 00:30:14,780Yeah.51500:30:14,780 --> 00:30:21,940But in 1926, there was a devastating fire that burned the wooden structure to the ground.51600:30:21,940 --> 00:30:29,380A new steel structure was built in its place using limestone rock from nearby Mount Rundle.51700:30:29,380 --> 00:30:37,380The Banff Springs Hotel was built by the workmanship of hundreds of Italian stone cutters and Scottish51800:30:37,380 --> 00:30:38,880stone masons.51900:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,540So it's quite a structure now.52000:30:40,540 --> 00:30:41,540It's gorgeous.52100:30:41,540 --> 00:30:43,700Yeah, like it's not going to blow away.52200:30:43,700 --> 00:30:44,700No.52300:30:44,700 --> 00:30:50,500And this has helped to give the hotel its nickname of the castle in the Rockies.52400:30:50,500 --> 00:30:51,500Nice.52500:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,380It very much looks like a castle.52600:30:53,380 --> 00:30:59,060In the last few decades, the hotel has given way to a few ghost tales.52700:30:59,060 --> 00:31:01,060And I'm about to tell you those.52800:31:01,060 --> 00:31:02,940That's good because I believe in ghosts.52900:31:02,940 --> 00:31:03,940No, you don't.53000:31:03,940 --> 00:31:04,940No.53100:31:04,940 --> 00:31:07,900Don't lie to these good people that are listening right now.53200:31:07,900 --> 00:31:08,900That's fine.53300:31:08,900 --> 00:31:13,700He does not believe in the paranormal or anything of that nature.53400:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,420No, so I would gladly stay in a haunted hotel because it's not going to be haunted and53500:31:17,420 --> 00:31:19,900it's probably going to be my best night's sleep ever.53600:31:19,900 --> 00:31:23,540Well, first we have the ghost bride.53700:31:23,540 --> 00:31:29,180She's been seen dancing in the ballroom or walking up one of the marble staircases.53800:31:29,180 --> 00:31:32,780Her face shrouded behind a white veil.53900:31:32,780 --> 00:31:37,500It is said that this spectre is the ghost of a young woman who is due to be married on54000:31:37,500 --> 00:31:41,380the hotel grounds in the early 1930s.54100:31:41,380 --> 00:31:47,460When, as she was walking down the staircase to the waiting arms of her soon to be husband,54200:31:47,460 --> 00:31:52,660her gown caught on fire by one of the many candles that adorn the stairwell.54300:31:52,660 --> 00:31:58,980The bride stepped on the hem of her dress, causing her to lose her footing and fall forward54400:31:58,980 --> 00:32:02,380to the bottom of the marble staircase.54500:32:02,380 --> 00:32:06,940The bride snapped her neck in the process and died.54600:32:06,940 --> 00:32:13,420The ghost bride has never left the grand hotel and she spends her night searching for her54700:32:13,420 --> 00:32:14,420lost love.54800:32:14,420 --> 00:32:20,400Okay, so she not only catches fire but she trips, falls and breaks her neck while her54900:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,620dress is on fire.55000:32:21,620 --> 00:32:23,620It's like a triple threat.55100:32:23,620 --> 00:32:24,940Holy crap.55200:32:24,940 --> 00:32:27,860I already forgot, but when did the thing burn to the ground?55300:32:27,860 --> 00:32:28,8601927.55400:32:28,860 --> 00:32:31,300Okay, so this was after.55500:32:31,300 --> 00:32:32,300This was after.55600:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,540This was in the 1930s.55700:32:36,540 --> 00:32:43,660The bride's haunting is so well known that in 2014, a collector coin and stamp were distributed55800:32:43,660 --> 00:32:48,980to commemorate her story, but she doesn't have a name, so that's interesting.55900:32:48,980 --> 00:32:56,820Their resident ghost is known by his Christian name, a Mr. Samuel McColley, a Scotsman.56000:32:56,820 --> 00:33:04,060Mr. McColley was the lead Belman at the hotel in the 1960s up through the 1970s.56100:33:04,060 --> 00:33:10,900He loved the hotel so much that on his deathbed in 1975, Sam said that he would return to the56200:33:10,900 --> 00:33:24,380Banff Springs after his death to Haunt its halls.56300:33:24,380 --> 00:33:26,700Please don't.56400:33:26,700 --> 00:33:31,780Guests of the hotel have encountered this helpful and friendly bellhop, wearing an out-of-date56500:33:31,780 --> 00:33:36,020bellhop's uniform with a strong Scottish brogue.56600:33:36,020 --> 00:33:39,340But when offered a tip, he just vanishes.56700:33:39,340 --> 00:33:43,660One of the most famous tales was that of two women who had locked themselves out of their56800:33:43,660 --> 00:33:45,140hotel room.56900:33:45,140 --> 00:33:51,300They headed down to the front desk and waited for the bellhop on duty for 15 minutes.57000:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,300The women decided to walk back up to their room.57100:33:54,300 --> 00:33:59,740Once they were back at their door, a man in an older-looking bellhop uniform approached57200:33:59,740 --> 00:34:03,700them and unlocked their hotel room door.57300:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,900They thanked the man and he happily walked away.57400:34:06,900 --> 00:34:09,180I have a serious question.57500:34:09,180 --> 00:34:10,180What's that?57600:34:10,180 --> 00:34:11,180Okay.57700:34:11,180 --> 00:34:15,660I come out in an old bellhop uniform, walk around the house.57800:34:15,660 --> 00:34:16,660What do you think?57900:34:16,660 --> 00:34:18,140Is that work for you or no?58000:34:18,140 --> 00:34:20,180I'm not giving you a tip for that.58100:34:20,180 --> 00:34:21,180Really?58200:34:21,180 --> 00:34:23,180Maybe.58300:34:23,180 --> 00:34:24,180All right.58400:34:24,180 --> 00:34:28,740Okay, but it kind of is scary that he can just get into any room, right?58500:34:28,740 --> 00:34:30,620Yeah, because there's no privacy.58600:34:30,620 --> 00:34:34,180No, there's no privacy at this hotel now.58700:34:34,180 --> 00:34:39,900One is also seen in his old office on the mezzanine floor, which has been converted into an58800:34:39,900 --> 00:34:42,180actual guest room.58900:34:42,180 --> 00:34:46,460But the saddest tale of all is that of room 873.59000:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,820I also read that it was room 875.59100:34:48,820 --> 00:34:51,420Well, they're next door to each other.59200:34:51,420 --> 00:34:52,420I think so.59300:34:52,420 --> 00:34:58,060A young family was staying in the room and one night the husband and wife began arguing.59400:34:58,060 --> 00:35:02,500The husband went down to the hotel bar and became intoxicated.59500:35:02,500 --> 00:35:07,700He grabbed a large knife from the kitchen and stabbed his wife and daughter to death in59600:35:07,700 --> 00:35:14,820room 873 or 875 and then turned the knife on himself.59700:35:14,820 --> 00:35:20,220Guests of the room have complained of hearing disembodied screams and shrieks in the middle59800:35:20,220 --> 00:35:21,620of the night.59900:35:21,620 --> 00:35:27,100If they dared turn on the light, they would see bloody handprints on the bathroom mirror60000:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,980that could not be washed away.60100:35:29,980 --> 00:35:35,860Due to the paranormal activity within those four walls, management made the decision to60200:35:35,860 --> 00:35:38,940brick up the entrance to the room.60300:35:38,940 --> 00:35:45,500Recent guests who are permitted on the eighth floor have said that there is no room 873 or60400:35:45,500 --> 00:35:50,940875, even though the baseboard is cut where a door used to be.60500:35:50,940 --> 00:35:56,100There is a light hanging over an empty space on the wall where a door should be.60600:35:56,100 --> 00:36:01,180It is also said that if you knock on an area of the wall, you hear a hollow sound.60700:36:01,180 --> 00:36:07,940A few guests have even reported seeing a young girl standing outside of a room, looking60800:36:07,940 --> 00:36:09,940as if she is lost.60900:36:09,940 --> 00:36:15,380Okay, so if you had a hotel, and allegedly there were a couple of rooms that were haunted,61000:36:15,380 --> 00:36:16,900wouldn't you leave those open?61100:36:16,900 --> 00:36:20,020And then the word would get out that those are haunted rooms?61200:36:20,020 --> 00:36:21,020Yeah, I'd charge more.61300:36:21,020 --> 00:36:24,820You would get a line of people wanting to stay in those, I would.61400:36:24,820 --> 00:36:27,300Yeah, I'd totally keep it open.61500:36:27,300 --> 00:36:32,260I did go down the Reddit hole and came across something very interesting.61600:36:32,260 --> 00:36:33,260Okay.61700:36:33,260 --> 00:36:41,540Reddit user TJ Smudger92 said that he used to work at the Banff Springs Hotel.61800:36:41,540 --> 00:36:47,060TJ claims that all the ghost stories and paranormal activity are made up by the previous61900:36:47,060 --> 00:36:48,060staff.62000:36:48,060 --> 00:36:49,060There it is.62100:36:49,060 --> 00:36:55,060The versions of the ghost bride were told to TJ by the hotel's former vice president.62200:36:55,060 --> 00:37:00,620In 1986, a group of the hotel's colleagues set out to see who could come up with the best62300:37:00,620 --> 00:37:05,860ghost story and one of them came up with the story of the bride.62400:37:05,860 --> 00:37:08,220And it is still told today.62500:37:08,220 --> 00:37:14,740Sam The Bellman is based on a real former bellhop who worked in the hotel for 20 years.62600:37:14,740 --> 00:37:18,860The ghost was made up by the old head of the bell desk.62700:37:18,860 --> 00:37:20,940It became a sort of joke.62800:37:20,940 --> 00:37:27,300If a bag ended up in the wrong room, it would be blamed on Sam The Ghost.62900:37:27,300 --> 00:37:34,860The haunted room, 873 or 875 cannot be found on the 8th floor any longer because the room63000:37:34,860 --> 00:37:36,980next to it was expanded.63100:37:36,980 --> 00:37:38,940I was totally going to say that.63200:37:38,940 --> 00:37:40,420And compassing the room.63300:37:40,420 --> 00:37:44,740Yeah, why don't they just expand the room next door into a bigger room and then if they63400:37:44,740 --> 00:37:47,780wanted to, someone wanted a bigger room, they didn't have it available.63500:37:47,780 --> 00:37:50,860Because I had read that on the 8th floor, the rooms are tiny.63600:37:50,860 --> 00:37:51,860Yeah.63700:37:51,860 --> 00:37:55,220So they wanted to have bigger rooms so they were expanding these rooms.63800:37:55,220 --> 00:38:00,460If you happen to stay in the expanded room, you will be awakened all night by people63900:38:00,460 --> 00:38:03,100knocking on the wall where the door used to be.64000:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,420Oh, no, that I could believe.64100:38:05,420 --> 00:38:06,420That's annoying.64200:38:06,420 --> 00:38:08,580Because I at 100% would do that.64300:38:08,580 --> 00:38:11,780You would knock on the wall?64400:38:11,780 --> 00:38:13,780No.64500:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,580So is the Banff Springs Hotel haunted or not?64600:38:17,580 --> 00:38:18,580Yes.64700:38:18,580 --> 00:38:21,660No one knows for sure, but it sounds fun.64800:38:21,660 --> 00:38:26,700All right, we hope you enjoyed a little snippet of us.64900:38:26,700 --> 00:38:32,180Check out our podcast that till death do us part and be careful.65000:38:32,180 --> 00:38:34,420For marriage is life's sense.65100:38:34,420 --> 00:38:37,300And divorce is always the better option.65200:38:37,300 --> 00:38:38,300It is.65300:38:38,300 --> 00:38:39,300Bye.65400:38:39,300 --> 00:38:40,700Bye, bye.65500:38:40,700 --> 00:38:46,380We turn our attention next to two of the three hosts from unethical podcast.65600:38:46,380 --> 00:38:52,860It's a lest and Christy specializing in a study of fear and the human psyche, but in ways65700:38:52,860 --> 00:38:57,300that will have you laughing maniacally as you do so.65800:38:57,300 --> 00:39:03,380Their stories tell of the evil entities lurking in the Inquisitos, our mouths curve up at the65900:39:03,380 --> 00:39:11,540humor until we realize that the darkness they speak of still surrounds us.66000:39:11,540 --> 00:39:15,300I'm Sarah Dinges and I'm from unethical podcast.66100:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,300And Celeste is here with me today.66200:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,180Hi, I'm also from unethical podcast.66300:39:20,180 --> 00:39:27,340And today I have a spooky little story coming from Tennessee in 1804.66400:39:27,340 --> 00:39:32,740John and Lucy Bell started a farm near the Red River in Robertson County, Tennessee,66500:39:32,740 --> 00:39:34,500which is right outside of Nashville.66600:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,540They had nine children at the time.66700:39:36,540 --> 00:39:38,300Oh, it's a lot.66800:39:38,300 --> 00:39:39,620Right?66900:39:39,620 --> 00:39:45,100Years after they had moved to this property in 1817, they began experiencing some67000:39:45,100 --> 00:39:53,220strange things and it all happened after John Bell shot at a dog like creature and it disappeared67100:39:53,220 --> 00:39:55,620after he fired the shot.67200:39:55,620 --> 00:40:00,420But then the children began seeing more strange creatures and hearing and explain noises67300:40:00,420 --> 00:40:06,820in the house such as knocking on doors and windows, wings flapping on the ceiling, sounds67400:40:06,820 --> 00:40:13,460of choking and strangling heavy objects moving around, chains hitting and dragging on the67500:40:13,460 --> 00:40:14,460floor.67600:40:14,460 --> 00:40:19,500And these people have ever seen a dog before because the wings and the chains, none of that sounds67700:40:19,500 --> 00:40:21,540like a dog to me.67800:40:21,540 --> 00:40:24,860No, I like the best description we have as dog like.67900:40:24,860 --> 00:40:29,740So like maybe it was some demonic looking thing, but like it could have been a coyote who68000:40:29,740 --> 00:40:30,740the fuck knows.68100:40:30,740 --> 00:40:31,740Okay.68200:40:31,740 --> 00:40:37,420All right, Bat Yodi, the wild chained Bat Yodi, their native to Nashville, Tennessee.68300:40:37,420 --> 00:40:40,660They escaped the caves.68400:40:40,660 --> 00:40:43,100All right.68500:40:43,100 --> 00:40:44,100Continue.68600:40:44,100 --> 00:40:49,740And sometimes these sounds were deafening the family members that they were so loud.68700:40:49,740 --> 00:40:56,020And originally they just referred to this as the spirit and eventually it became known68800:40:56,020 --> 00:40:58,140as the bellwitch.68900:40:58,140 --> 00:41:03,680And the bellwitch would even speak to the family in a disembodied voice and eventually it69000:41:03,680 --> 00:41:11,900became violent and it started beating and pinching and pulling hair, especially aimed at John69100:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,220Bell and his daughter, Betsy.69200:41:14,220 --> 00:41:18,220They were the two that the bellwitch absolutely hated.69300:41:18,220 --> 00:41:19,220Yeah.69400:41:19,220 --> 00:41:23,460This sounds like sibling rivalry.69500:41:23,460 --> 00:41:25,500Mom, a job pulled my hair.69600:41:25,500 --> 00:41:26,500No, I didn't.69700:41:26,500 --> 00:41:27,500It was the bellwitch, Mama.69800:41:27,500 --> 00:41:33,100It wouldn't mean it does sound like some shit that kids would have like stuck just to69900:41:33,100 --> 00:41:35,540like get out of it with the out of things.70000:41:35,540 --> 00:41:41,100Sounds like they they broke Paws favorite smoking pipe and they were like, one thus70100:41:41,100 --> 00:41:47,100got got thing bellwitch again.70200:41:47,100 --> 00:41:52,700But Lucy Bell, wife of John Bell was least affected by the spirit.70300:41:52,700 --> 00:41:57,380And the spirit even proclaimed her to be the most perfect woman living.70400:41:57,380 --> 00:41:59,940After nine kids, that's no slow.70500:41:59,940 --> 00:42:00,940Right?70600:42:00,940 --> 00:42:04,660And I guess if you're going to have a spirit in your house, at least have it, think you're70700:42:04,660 --> 00:42:05,660a bad bitch.70800:42:05,660 --> 00:42:06,660You know?70900:42:06,660 --> 00:42:07,660Right?71000:42:07,660 --> 00:42:10,380Where are my complimentary spirits at?71100:42:10,380 --> 00:42:17,100And apparently the bellwitch would even sing to her when she was sick and just hang out71200:42:17,100 --> 00:42:23,300and care for her, which I don't know how much a spirit can care for someone, but hope71300:42:23,300 --> 00:42:28,100she doesn't ghost her.71400:42:28,100 --> 00:42:30,100But I'm sorry.71500:42:30,100 --> 00:42:34,380However, Betsy Bell endured the most torment from the witch.71600:42:34,380 --> 00:42:39,420For years, the bellwitch tormented her and she wouldn't find relief from the spirit until71700:42:39,420 --> 00:42:45,220she married her former school teacher and moved to Mississippi in 1820.71800:42:45,220 --> 00:42:46,220Quick question.71900:42:46,220 --> 00:42:53,300The mom is being like, caressed and having sweet nothings whispered in her ear and fed72000:42:53,300 --> 00:42:56,140soup when she's ill by this spirit.72100:42:56,140 --> 00:43:01,780But her daughter is getting like her hair pulled and being called a fat bitch and all72200:43:01,780 --> 00:43:02,780that other stuff.72300:43:02,780 --> 00:43:08,380And the mom is just like, she's taken a second to be like, which, how come you're torturing72400:43:08,380 --> 00:43:09,380my daughter?72500:43:09,380 --> 00:43:10,900I have no idea.72600:43:10,900 --> 00:43:18,100And so Betsy was previously engaged to another man, but the bellwitch hated that man.72700:43:18,100 --> 00:43:23,060And so that's how she ended up with her former school teacher and marrying him and moving72800:43:23,060 --> 00:43:24,580to Mississippi.72900:43:24,580 --> 00:43:28,500And when she moved to Mississippi is when finally the torment stopped for her.73000:43:28,500 --> 00:43:33,660That would have been a much better time to use ghosting as a pun for breaking up with someone.73100:43:33,660 --> 00:43:40,380She ghosted her first lover, move John to her teacher, fired a dollar.73200:43:40,380 --> 00:43:44,460The bellwitch referred to John Bell as old Jack.73300:43:44,460 --> 00:43:48,580He wouldn't be so lucky to be able to escape this.73400:43:48,580 --> 00:43:56,860And after years of physical violence and threats, John was bedridden on December 19, 1820.73500:43:56,860 --> 00:44:03,020And his son, John Jr. was caring for him and went to get medicine bottles out of the cabinet73600:44:03,020 --> 00:44:04,020to help his father.73700:44:04,020 --> 00:44:11,500And when he opened the cabinet, he only found one vial of a mysterious liquid.73800:44:11,500 --> 00:44:14,900And the bellwitch told him it's useless to relieve old Jack.73900:44:14,900 --> 00:44:17,140I've got him this time.74000:44:17,140 --> 00:44:23,820And upon hearing that, John Jr. threw the bottle into a fire and it burst in blue flame.74100:44:23,820 --> 00:44:27,260And John Bell died December 20, 1820.74200:44:27,260 --> 00:44:31,980And supposedly the bellwitch crashed his funeral service by obnoxiously singing drinking74300:44:31,980 --> 00:44:32,980songs.74400:44:32,980 --> 00:44:39,740Okay, this is the husband of the one that the bellwitch loved.74500:44:39,740 --> 00:44:40,740Yes.74600:44:40,740 --> 00:44:41,740Okay.74700:44:41,740 --> 00:44:42,740Okay.74800:44:42,740 --> 00:44:48,820So was she trying to smash or like, did she was her husband just not a nice man?74900:44:48,820 --> 00:44:50,340No explanation.75000:44:50,340 --> 00:44:52,140Oh, wow.75100:44:52,140 --> 00:44:54,340Just the bellwitch hated John.75200:44:54,340 --> 00:44:57,180Loved Lucy.75300:44:57,180 --> 00:44:59,820Had a problem with a couple of the kids.75400:44:59,820 --> 00:45:00,820Okay.75500:45:00,820 --> 00:45:03,540So the bellwitch poisoned him to death.75600:45:03,540 --> 00:45:04,540Yes.75700:45:04,540 --> 00:45:07,140And then took all the medicine away so he couldn't be fixed.75800:45:07,140 --> 00:45:08,140Yeah.75900:45:08,140 --> 00:45:10,300And was basically telling John Jr.76000:45:10,300 --> 00:45:13,060Hey, don't even try to save your father because he's going to die.76100:45:13,060 --> 00:45:14,060Like I got him this time.76200:45:14,060 --> 00:45:15,540I don't know, man.76300:45:15,540 --> 00:45:17,540I don't know.76400:45:17,540 --> 00:45:19,540Seems a little suspicious.76500:45:19,540 --> 00:45:23,780I feel like I've heard this excuse before.76600:45:23,780 --> 00:45:25,700Wasn't me a witch did it?76700:45:25,700 --> 00:45:27,340That leads me to the next point.76800:45:27,340 --> 00:45:36,900So it was as best as it could have been in 1820, somewhat investigated and went court.76900:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,980And this is where Tennessee became the first date to contribute the death of an individual77000:45:40,980 --> 00:45:45,460to the supernatural because even the court was like, yep, bellwitch.77100:45:45,460 --> 00:45:47,460Ghost did it.77200:45:47,460 --> 00:45:48,980Ghost did it.77300:45:48,980 --> 00:45:51,060First or only.77400:45:51,060 --> 00:45:53,980I think first and only.77500:45:53,980 --> 00:45:54,980All right.77600:45:54,980 --> 00:45:58,420Well, I would have expected more from Tennessee.77700:45:58,420 --> 00:46:01,060So that's surprising.77800:46:01,060 --> 00:46:02,060So that's it.77900:46:02,060 --> 00:46:03,060Open and shut.78000:46:03,060 --> 00:46:05,700Pretty cruel as far as state of Tennessee was concerned.78100:46:05,700 --> 00:46:06,700Yeah.78200:46:06,700 --> 00:46:07,700Bang the gavel judge.78300:46:07,700 --> 00:46:09,700Ghost did it.78400:46:09,700 --> 00:46:12,620Everybody go home.78500:46:12,620 --> 00:46:14,220Did they try hanging her?78600:46:14,220 --> 00:46:17,260But they set up like invisible wire and they just like, whoo.78700:46:17,260 --> 00:46:22,700Like the real fire like we're just going to burn the witch.78800:46:22,700 --> 00:46:29,980Well, the bellwitch in the spring of 1821 told the family that it would be back in seven78900:46:29,980 --> 00:46:36,900years, which Lucy and two of her children reported that it did come back in much of the79000:46:36,900 --> 00:46:41,660same way that it had before as far as strange noises and all of that.79100:46:41,660 --> 00:46:46,860But shortly after it returned, it left again claiming that it would haunt the bell family79200:46:46,860 --> 00:46:50,700descendants again in 1935.79300:46:50,700 --> 00:46:56,500And while some people report strange happenings still on the family land, it's never79400:46:56,500 --> 00:47:02,020been to the same severity as what the original bells reported in the 1800s.79500:47:02,020 --> 00:47:06,940Today you can tour a replica of their cabin.79600:47:06,940 --> 00:47:11,020And you can also tour the caves.79700:47:11,020 --> 00:47:16,100And the caves is where people believe the bellwitch may have retreated to during the times79800:47:16,100 --> 00:47:19,620that it said it was leaving and it would be back or whatever.79900:47:19,620 --> 00:47:25,380And so you can tour the bellwitch caves that are on the old bell property.80000:47:25,380 --> 00:47:26,380Right.80100:47:26,380 --> 00:47:31,740Because the life cycle of course was that and then bat yoddy and then which.80200:47:31,740 --> 00:47:36,220So she was returning home to her birthplace, the caves where the bats are born.80300:47:36,220 --> 00:47:37,220I assume.80400:47:37,220 --> 00:47:38,220Right.80500:47:38,220 --> 00:47:39,220Right.80600:47:39,220 --> 00:47:40,220That all checks out.80700:47:40,220 --> 00:47:41,220I have no questions.80800:47:41,220 --> 00:47:42,220Yeah.80900:47:42,220 --> 00:47:43,220She came.81000:47:43,220 --> 00:47:44,220She murdered a man.81100:47:44,220 --> 00:47:46,220She left.81200:47:46,220 --> 00:47:48,060As one does.81300:47:48,060 --> 00:47:50,620Thank you guys for listening and happy Halloween.81400:47:50,620 --> 00:47:51,620Happy Halloween.81500:47:51,620 --> 00:47:54,380Thanks guys.81600:47:54,380 --> 00:48:01,740Cassie and Caitlyn, the host of PNW Haunts and Homicides, descended deep into the unknown81700:48:01,740 --> 00:48:07,100to bring tales of murder, the ghastly and the otherworldly.81800:48:07,100 --> 00:48:12,020Their stories will reveal hidden horrors of the past and show us how the darkness waits81900:48:12,020 --> 00:48:15,060to ensnare the curious wanderer.82000:48:15,060 --> 00:48:22,060They'll also have you questioning every rustle in the leaves and every creek from the forest.82100:48:22,060 --> 00:48:24,060Hi Cassie.82200:48:24,060 --> 00:48:25,340Hi Caitlyn.82300:48:25,340 --> 00:48:26,340Hi creepy people.82400:48:26,340 --> 00:48:27,340Hello.82500:48:27,340 --> 00:48:28,340Hello.82600:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,500This is PNW Haunts and Homicides.82700:48:32,500 --> 00:48:38,620Can you imagine what it would be like if the frivolity of your youth, presuming that you82800:48:38,620 --> 00:48:44,420were permitted any was cut short by a horrific event?82900:48:44,420 --> 00:48:49,540For more than one family, that sentiment is all too real.83000:48:49,540 --> 00:48:55,580Emanuel Fair was imprisoned in King County, Washington for nearly a decade for a crime83100:48:55,580 --> 00:48:58,580that he says he did not commit.83200:48:58,580 --> 00:49:04,340He told the Seattle Times about being incarcerated for so long without a conviction.83300:49:04,340 --> 00:49:07,100I always knew I was going to get out.83400:49:07,100 --> 00:49:10,980I just didn't think it would take as long as it took.83500:49:10,980 --> 00:49:12,38010 years you said?83600:49:12,380 --> 00:49:15,540He was imprisoned, yes.83700:49:15,540 --> 00:49:21,620At the Valley View Apartments near Lake Samamish, #NeverBundey.83800:49:21,620 --> 00:49:26,860Ooh, if you know, you know, Ikea, can all that.83900:49:26,860 --> 00:49:32,420Emanuel was one of dozens of people, both other residents of the complex, as well as their84000:49:32,420 --> 00:49:38,060guests that were in and out of one of several apartment units during the Halloween party84100:49:38,060 --> 00:49:41,340that took place nearly 15 years ago.84200:49:41,340 --> 00:49:45,020Okay, can I just say that sounds like a lot of fun?84300:49:45,020 --> 00:49:46,020Yeah.84400:49:46,020 --> 00:49:48,020Like a whole apartment building party.84500:49:48,020 --> 00:49:49,020Yeah.84600:49:49,020 --> 00:49:50,020That sounds great.84700:49:50,020 --> 00:49:51,900I think it sounds fantastic.84800:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,820Reminds me like a dorm kind of situation.84900:49:54,820 --> 00:49:59,900I think it very much had that kind of a vibe because it seems like there were a lot of people85000:49:59,900 --> 00:50:03,420that were in their, you know, early to mid-20s.85100:50:03,420 --> 00:50:08,580So maybe recent college grads or, you know, people kind of getting their lives started85200:50:08,580 --> 00:50:09,580up.85300:50:09,580 --> 00:50:10,580So great.85400:50:10,580 --> 00:50:12,500No.85500:50:12,500 --> 00:50:17,300The gravity of the situation didn't really hit until later though, when a young woman's85600:50:17,300 --> 00:50:21,660body was discovered in her very own bedroom.85700:50:21,660 --> 00:50:27,620Arpana Jinaga was a 24-year-old immigrant who worked as a software engineer at a company called85800:50:27,620 --> 00:50:30,300EMC in Bellevue.85900:50:30,300 --> 00:50:35,820And though she lived less than a dozen miles from her workplace, she had been born nearly86000:50:35,820 --> 00:50:41,300a world away from the state of Washington in Hedira, bad, India.86100:50:41,300 --> 00:50:43,860That's a whole world away?86200:50:43,860 --> 00:50:46,620I mean, yeah, basically.86300:50:46,620 --> 00:50:48,420I feel like it's in the same world.86400:50:48,420 --> 00:50:49,420Yeah.86500:50:49,420 --> 00:50:51,140I know what you're saying though.86600:50:51,140 --> 00:50:53,980It's probably a whole different world.86700:50:53,980 --> 00:50:54,980Definitely.86800:50:54,980 --> 00:50:57,580And most of her family was still there.86900:50:57,580 --> 00:51:03,940She was an alum of Rutgers University, but her accolades didn't stop there because I'm87000:51:03,940 --> 00:51:09,660pretty sure just getting into Rutgers is an accomplishment in and of itself.87100:51:09,660 --> 00:51:15,980She had won an International Software Award and was a rising star in her Bellevue workplace.87200:51:15,980 --> 00:51:16,980Oh, yeah.87300:51:16,980 --> 00:51:18,980Oh, yeah.87400:51:18,980 --> 00:51:25,380She was an active and friendly outgoing young woman, but she also had an eye for promising87500:51:25,380 --> 00:51:32,020volunteer opportunities, such as those that she took on both at an animal shelter, as87600:51:32,020 --> 00:51:34,740well as with the local fire department.87700:51:34,740 --> 00:51:37,100Oh, well, isn't she the sweetest?87800:51:37,100 --> 00:51:38,660I know.87900:51:38,660 --> 00:51:43,300She'd lived in the area for less than a year and signed up to volunteer her time to both88000:51:43,300 --> 00:51:44,740in the Redmond area.88100:51:44,740 --> 00:51:47,460Oh, I know that area.88200:51:47,460 --> 00:51:48,460Yeah.88300:51:48,460 --> 00:51:56,980Nearly two years later in October 2010, Emmanuel was placed in a Seattle holding cell for88400:51:56,980 --> 00:52:04,360the 2008 sexual assault and murder of Arpana Jinaga.88500:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,900At the time, they were continuing to gather evidence against him.88600:52:08,900 --> 00:52:15,540For reference, DNA found at the scene of the crime would be linked to three men in total,88700:52:15,540 --> 00:52:20,380but only one would ultimately be charged in connection with her death.88800:52:20,380 --> 00:52:22,180Whoa.88900:52:22,180 --> 00:52:26,960So they ran a test on the DNA and it matched three different people?89000:52:26,960 --> 00:52:35,720There were a number of samples taken from various items in the apartment and that were discovered89100:52:35,720 --> 00:52:40,220in another area, and we're going to talk about that in a second.89200:52:40,220 --> 00:52:45,760Some of the samples matched one guy, some of the samples matched another.89300:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,240There may have been some co-mingling of samples.89400:52:49,240 --> 00:52:50,240Well, yeah.89500:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,720We don't like co-mingling of samples.89600:52:52,720 --> 00:52:53,720Don't love that.89700:52:53,720 --> 00:52:55,240It's not a good time.89800:52:55,240 --> 00:52:56,240No.89900:52:56,240 --> 00:53:02,200The evidence used against him was collected from a dumpster on the complex property.90000:53:02,200 --> 00:53:07,840According to prosecutors, Emmanuel's DNA was discovered on multiple items that they believed90100:53:07,840 --> 00:53:13,840the killer touched, including tape in the apartment, mixed with Arpana's blood stains90200:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,680on a red robe found in a dumpster.90300:53:16,680 --> 00:53:17,680Oh.90400:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,880Also, on a swab taken from Arpana's neck.90500:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,880Oh, okay.90600:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,880Yeah.90700:53:25,880 --> 00:53:31,680We've got some different places where it's being found, but we're going to come back.90800:53:31,680 --> 00:53:38,160Put a pin in the DNA evidence for our full-length episode in the PNW Haunts and Homicides Podcast90900:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,880feed, because we're going to get to her.91000:53:40,880 --> 00:53:41,880I'll be there.91100:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,120Okay.91200:53:43,120 --> 00:53:51,080When Arpana's body was found in her apartment back in 2008, a few specific sensory details91300:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,000stood out to those working the case.91400:53:55,000 --> 00:54:02,680The smell of bleach for one, but also how her bedroom seemed to be completely saturated91500:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,720with an oily substance, which was later determined to be motor oil.91600:54:07,720 --> 00:54:09,560Oh, ew.91700:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,560Yeah.91800:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,560Okay.91900:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,600I imagine that's very smelly bleach and motor oil.92000:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,320And what the fuck is going on with motor oil?92100:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,000I had a lot of questions.92200:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,000Maybe.92300:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,800They think it was flammable and they wanted to like, push the plate.92400:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,800Well, that's the place.92500:54:25,800 --> 00:54:26,800Well, that's the place.92600:54:26,800 --> 00:54:32,240Which would also later explain the burn marks on her bedroom carpet, as well as the satin92700:54:32,240 --> 00:54:35,360sheets pulled from the garbage dumpster.92800:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,680Absolutely horrifying.92900:54:37,680 --> 00:54:42,480They were burned, like, not chemical burns, like fire burns.93000:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,480That's my understanding.93100:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,480Ooh.93200:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,680Yeah, because they say burn marks, the way that it's phrased in the source material, yeah,93300:54:50,680 --> 00:54:57,920does sound like fire burns, not like a, like, ooh,ouch, that's going to blister in a weird93400:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,920chemical way.93500:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,400But I guess they probably wouldn't say chemical burn if it wasn't on a person.93600:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,400I would assume.93700:55:05,400 --> 00:55:11,440Neighboring tenants would also say that they heard what they described as muffled moaning,93800:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,760but didn't indicate that they had any reason to be particularly concerned about the noise93900:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,960at least on that night.94000:55:19,960 --> 00:55:25,040It does sound like a party house, so I'm sure noise is common.94100:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,400Yeah, I mean, it's a Halloween party.94200:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,400Right.94300:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,280I feel like enough said, you know what I mean?94400:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,680Except maybe not.94500:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,080However, it wouldn't take long for serious concern to develop.94600:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,320By November 2nd, our Arpana's family had not spoken to her for a couple of days.94700:55:42,320 --> 00:55:49,080This was extremely unusual, as they typically spoke to her every day. Daily.94800:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,880granting her father to ask a family friend that lived in the area to check in on her.94900:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,680Whether they expected anything was truly wrong or just wanted to check on her in an abundance95000:55:58,680 --> 00:56:03,800of caution, the scene that the family friend, along with one of our Arpana's neighbors,95100:56:03,800 --> 00:56:10,560walked into, was the absolute worst case scenario imaginable.95200:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,680Unimaginable, but...95300:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,560And you said her family isn't local, right?95400:56:15,560 --> 00:56:16,560Right.95500:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,080Oh, gosh.95600:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,400They found Arpana at the foot of her bed.95700:56:21,400 --> 00:56:28,320Her autopsy would later show that she died of esphyxia by ligature strangulation.95800:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,800No.95900:56:30,800 --> 00:56:36,640Ligature strangulation occurs when an external object is placed around the neck and provides96000:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,640compression.96100:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,080Oh, God.96200:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,600The compression is usually applied to the neck by using the deceitant's own body weight96300:56:45,600 --> 00:56:51,680in what would generally be described as either a partial or complete hanging.96400:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,960Oh, my God.96500:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,840That sounds violent.96600:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,400Yes.96700:56:56,400 --> 00:57:02,800Her manner of death was obviously brutal, but within the report, it was also noted that96800:57:02,800 --> 00:57:07,560she had sustained multiple blunt force injuries.96900:57:07,560 --> 00:57:14,800Prior to leaving the scene, the killer or killers had used bleach, blue toilet bowl cleaner,97000:57:14,800 --> 00:57:22,200a common household type of soap, and motor oil to strip away forensic evidence linking97100:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,400them to the crime.97200:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,160Man.97300:57:26,160 --> 00:57:35,520Traces of the various cleansers were found on Arpana's body, the carpet, her comforter,97400:57:35,520 --> 00:57:41,840the bathtub, as well as the bathroom counter and her mattress from which the comforter had97500:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,680been removed.97600:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,640Now it's important to note that depending on who you ask, Arpana's killer was already97700:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,480imprisoned, but has since been released.97800:57:52,480 --> 00:57:58,640Others believe that one of the other persons of interest is the likely killer, or even97900:57:58,640 --> 00:58:04,160that a combination of multiple killers is most likely.98000:58:04,160 --> 00:58:12,680Some have even speculated about other high-profile, violent maniacs such as Israel keys, and he's98100:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,440not the only one.98200:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,760Oh, usually that's a theory that could be easily dismissed, especially if we're not sure98300:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,480that it's coming from an entirely reliable source.98400:58:23,480 --> 00:58:31,360However, in this case, it does seem that Israel keys was in fact in the Seattle area between98500:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,320October 31 and November 2.98600:58:35,320 --> 00:58:41,520Oh, that makes me really uncomfortable.98700:58:41,520 --> 00:58:42,880Because it should.98800:58:42,880 --> 00:58:49,840So while it may be far-fetched, it's possible that you may not want to roll that one out entirely.98900:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,640Okay.99000:58:51,640 --> 00:58:59,720Emanuel Fairs' trial would begin in February of 2017, more than six years after he had99100:58:59,720 --> 00:59:06,400originally been charged, and more than eight years after our Panna was murdered.99200:59:06,400 --> 00:59:11,360After the rest of the story and this episode's tarot reading, you'll have to join us on our99300:59:11,360 --> 00:59:12,360regular feed.99400:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,960Well, I'm not really that interested in hearing the rest of the details, but I'm really interested99500:59:18,960 --> 00:59:19,960in the tarot.99600:59:19,960 --> 00:59:20,960Yeah.99700:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,160That's what I'm here for.99800:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,160I know.99900:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,160I know.100000:59:24,160 --> 00:59:25,160To everyone listening.100100:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,960Have a creepy ass Halloween!100200:59:27,960 --> 00:59:33,960Finally, we turn to Jamie and John from True Crime Cast.100300:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,240As we huddle close to the fire.100400:59:36,240 --> 00:59:44,080They share tales of both visible and invisible terrors, of voices that invade your very soul100500:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,760that lead us into the heart of terror.100600:59:47,760 --> 00:59:54,640Listen closely, and your heart will race with each whispered word.100700:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,400Hey, True Crime Cast fans.100800:59:58,400 --> 01:00:04,720Jamie and John here are super excited to be a part of this Halloween collaboration.100901:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,560In darkness falls, we were excited to be contacted by Allison from Coffee and Cases, and we've101001:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,680got our own spooky little tale to tell here today.101101:00:12,680 --> 01:00:13,960So get us rolling, John.101201:00:13,960 --> 01:00:20,000We are going to be talking about Teresita Baza, who was born in 1929 in the Philippines,101301:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,760and was the only child to her parents who were well off and very wealthy.101401:00:24,760 --> 01:00:30,520She went to college there and then moved to the United States in 1960 to earn her master's101501:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,000degree in music.101601:00:32,000 --> 01:00:38,740However, she would become a respiratory therapist at Edgewater Hospital located just outside of101701:00:38,740 --> 01:00:39,740Chicago.101801:00:39,740 --> 01:00:45,080Fun fact, this was the same hospital that was the birthplace of both John Wayne Gacy and101901:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,320Hillary Clinton.102001:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,320What a club.102101:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,320Teresita was a kind, hard working lady and lived a simple life in which she kept to herself.102201:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,520She wasn't the type of person to make enemies or make anybody angry.102301:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,840On February 21st, Teresita worked a normal day, and then at 7 in the evening she got102401:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,400a phone call from a friend who was a doctor at Edgewater Hospital.102501:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,560They spoke about concert tickets and trying to sell some.102601:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,000They were on the phone until about 7.20 and she said a friend arrived and she had to go.102701:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,920She got another call at 7.30.102801:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,600This was from Ruth Moib, who also worked at the hospital.102901:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,960They talked for about 20 minutes, and Teresita stated that she had to run because somebody103001:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,680was there to fix her television.103101:01:28,680 --> 01:01:34,040At 8.40 pm, neighbors and their apartments smelled smoke in their units and they opened103201:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,080the doors and saw smoke coming from Teresita's apartment.103301:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,480When firefighters got there, they found the source of the flames was a mattress that had103401:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,240caught on fire.103501:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,520When they had put out the fire, they found Teresita's body under the mattress, laying down103601:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,520with her hands over her head.103701:01:51,520 --> 01:01:58,480She was in just a horrible situation and it very much seemed as if foul play was involved.103801:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,160Was Teresita lived alone?103901:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,160Please weren't able to find out if anything was missing from the home.104001:02:04,160 --> 01:02:05,280Was this a burglary?104101:02:05,280 --> 01:02:06,280Was this personal?104201:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,120Was this a sexual assault later on?104301:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,120We would find out that there was no sexual assault.104401:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,920But so many questions.104501:02:12,920 --> 01:02:19,000Police did find a note that said get tickets for AS, AS being initials.104601:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,560Police didn't know who had come to repair the TV because Teresita hadn't told anybody104701:02:23,560 --> 01:02:28,760a name or a company of anybody that was supposed to be coming to the house.104801:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,940So all police know is we have this note, we have these phone calls and we have somebody104901:02:32,940 --> 01:02:35,560fixing her TV and that's all they got.105001:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760This case would basically go nowhere for months.105101:02:38,760 --> 01:02:45,160However, in August of 1977, six months after the murder, police would receive a fairly105201:02:45,160 --> 01:02:46,960strange tip.105301:02:46,960 --> 01:02:52,480Another department around Chicago, Evans Town, called the CPD to ask if they had looked105401:02:52,480 --> 01:02:58,960into a man named Alan Schahery, who also worked at Edgewater Hospital.105501:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,480The police department had not looked into this man and of course they wanted to know why105601:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,360they were even asking.105701:03:05,360 --> 01:03:10,840In Evansville, police department gave them the name of Dr. Jose Schau as someone that105801:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,960they could call and speak with and that's when the story gets really spooky.105901:03:14,960 --> 01:03:20,440Yeah, Dr. Schau's wife, whose name was Remy, also worked at the Edgewater Hospital.106001:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,120Dr. Schau worked elsewhere.106101:03:22,120 --> 01:03:27,120So detectives went to their home to learn why they would even ask about Alan Schahery106201:03:27,120 --> 01:03:32,240and what connection they had to Teresita.106301:03:32,240 --> 01:03:37,080They seemed shy or kind of ashamed almost at first, didn't really want to talk, but during106401:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,320the home visit, Dr. Schau asked one of the detectives if he believed in the occult and106501:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,520demonic forces.106601:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,720That's got to be a question as a police officer.106701:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,520You're there to get a report and get some facts.106801:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,280That's got to put you on your heels, I would think.106901:03:51,280 --> 01:03:57,080Dr. Schau said that he's a physician, but he had seen some things in his life that science107001:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,600just would not explain.107101:03:59,600 --> 01:04:06,600He went on to say that he didn't know Teresita or even know about her murder until one night107201:04:06,600 --> 01:04:14,080when his wife, Remy, had become possessed by the spirit of Teresita, Bassa.107301:04:14,080 --> 01:04:19,160Dr. Schau said that the first time he saw this was in their home, Remy had got up from107401:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,980the couch, walked into her bedroom, and was just sitting there on the bed, staring with107501:04:23,980 --> 01:04:25,680a blank face.107601:04:25,680 --> 01:04:30,320He asked her if she was okay, and she began speaking in a foreign language.107701:04:30,320 --> 01:04:35,400This language was tagalog, and her voice was not his wife's.107801:04:35,400 --> 01:04:41,440Now tagalog was a national language of the Philippines where Teresita and Remy are107901:04:41,440 --> 01:04:42,440from.108001:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,920Obviously Dr. Schau was concerned for his wife, and just like a doctor, he wanted to108101:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,280make sure that she was oriented.108201:04:49,280 --> 01:04:56,800So he asked her if she knew who she was, and the voice said, "I am Teresita, Bassa."108301:04:56,800 --> 01:05:02,040The voice told him that she needed help solving her murder, and that the man who murdered108401:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,880her was Alan Shawery.108501:05:04,880 --> 01:05:10,680The voice explained that Alan showed up to work on the TV, but instead she was stabbed108601:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,520by Alan.108701:05:12,520 --> 01:05:18,680After Schau then said that once the voice left, Remy was back and had no memory of this108801:05:18,680 --> 01:05:19,680experience.108901:05:19,680 --> 01:05:24,520When Dr. Schau asked Remy if she knew Teresita, she said that they may have met once during109001:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,760orientation at work, but they worked different shifts and really didn't know each other.109101:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,480They certainly weren't friends.109201:05:31,480 --> 01:05:36,800He stated that another time it happened in the middle of the night while Remy was asleep.109301:05:36,800 --> 01:05:42,240The voice woke her up and asked why he hadn't gone to the police yet.109401:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,680Dr. Schau said, "I am a scientist.109501:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,800I need proof of this before I go to police."109601:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,880The voice then described two pieces of jewelry that had been stolen from Teresita's house109701:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,480by Alan the night of her murder.109801:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,120He went on to give those to his girlfriend.109901:05:58,120 --> 01:06:03,140The voice also told Dr. Schau the names of relatives of Teresita who could identify110001:06:03,140 --> 01:06:05,800the jewelry as hers.110101:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,600Remy told the police that sometimes in the hospital locker room she would look around110201:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,320and see visions of Teresita with Alan's face behind her.110301:06:15,320 --> 01:06:24,280All kinds of supernatural imagery and claims of voices, not our typical leads.110401:06:24,280 --> 01:06:28,920They asked some of his co-workers about Alan and Teresita and one of them had mentioned110501:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,080that he remembered Alan saying that he was going to work on her TV at some point with110601:06:34,080 --> 01:06:40,600this and the note from her home about having tickets to give to AS.110701:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,160Police paid him a visit as well as his girlfriend.110801:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,560At first he said he didn't know her.110901:06:46,560 --> 01:06:52,200But when confronted with the testimony about working on her TV, his story began to change.111001:06:52,200 --> 01:06:57,920He stated that he had went there for just a short time but didn't have the right tool111101:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,840that he needed to fix the TV so he left fairly quickly.111201:07:01,840 --> 01:07:07,720They asked his girlfriend if she had been given any jewelry and she showed them two pieces111301:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,560that were a perfect match to the ones that were described from the ghost and she stated111401:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,560that he had given them to her in January as a late Christmas gift.111501:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,480Police showed these pieces of jewelry to Teresita's family and they confirmed that they111601:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,500were indeed Teresita's.111701:07:25,500 --> 01:07:30,760You mentioned you got chills when you quoted the quote unquote ghost earlier.111801:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,080I just got chills that the jewelry claim was right.111901:07:34,080 --> 01:07:41,520How on earth could Remy have known about this other than this being possessed as she claimed112001:07:41,520 --> 01:07:42,520to be?112101:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,200Eventually Alan would confess when he was confronted with all this evidence.112201:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,920He said he got there that night and he killed her looking for money.112301:07:49,920 --> 01:07:55,240He only found $30 and he took two pieces of jewelry so that's what her life was worth112401:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,760to him.112501:07:56,760 --> 01:08:02,160He was charged with murder and this trial in the public was nicknamed The Voice From the112601:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,920Grave.112701:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,760Four weeks later there was a hung jury because of the ghost witness.112801:08:08,760 --> 01:08:15,160A lot of the jurors while they thought he probably did this were so hung up on the unlikely112901:08:15,160 --> 01:08:21,640hood of Remy knowing this from a ghost that they couldn't commit to a guilty verdict.113001:08:21,640 --> 01:08:27,160Before there could be another trial, Alan pled guilty for a shorter sentence of 14 years113101:08:27,160 --> 01:08:28,160for murder.113201:08:28,160 --> 01:08:34,160After everything was said and done, he only ended up serving four years before he was released.113301:08:34,160 --> 01:08:40,160That's the most insane part of this story and I know that I just said a ghost told somebody113401:08:40,160 --> 01:08:45,800who murdered her but the fact that he only got four years for this is mind blowing to113501:08:45,800 --> 01:08:46,800me.113601:08:46,800 --> 01:08:47,800It is.113701:08:47,800 --> 01:08:48,800Yeah.113801:08:48,800 --> 01:08:54,040They have this information I can't think of a logical scenario where she knew this unless113901:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,320somebody around the hospital was talking about it.114001:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,000I guess that's possible.114101:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,440But I think that's the story you go to police with.114201:09:00,440 --> 01:09:05,040Not the story of she was possessed by a ghost of a dead person that woke me up in the middle114301:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,040of the night.114401:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,840They were reliable witnesses.114501:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,080Everything they said proved to be true though so it is what it is.114601:09:11,080 --> 01:09:12,080Yeah.114701:09:12,080 --> 01:09:17,320I legitimately think that the ghost of Tarrasita helps solve her own murder and that we114801:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,600as society and the justice system were the ones that dropped the ball.114901:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,760Again, we're thrilled to be a part of this Wind Darkness Falls collaboration.115001:09:25,760 --> 01:09:30,760You can find true crime cast anywhere you find your favorite podcast with new episodes115101:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,760every Tuesday and Friday.115201:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,560Until next crime, this has been true crime cast.115301:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,640And happy Halloween.115401:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,160We look at each other and we know what we must do.115501:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,380We must listen to their stories.115601:09:46,380 --> 01:09:53,680We must learn about the darkness that lurks in the world both inside and out because that115701:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,320is the only way to escape it.115801:09:57,320 --> 01:10:04,280Be sure to subscribe to all 13 participating podcasts listed in our show notes so you115901:10:04,280 --> 01:10:09,440don't miss a single episode or tale of terror.116001:10:09,440 --> 01:10:11,640And again, listen.116101:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,160Remember.116201:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,760Wind Darkness calls.116301:10:15,760 --> 01:10:16,920Answer at your own payroll.116401:10:16,920 --> 01:10:26,920[MUSIC]