Disturbing Realities & Broken Justice

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,760How a case is approached from minute one matters.200:00:09,760 --> 00:00:16,120Because one misstep can leave so much room for speculation, for doubt, and ultimately,300:00:16,120 --> 00:00:22,960a completely solvable case may end up in a stack of unsolved cold cases or become400:00:22,960 --> 00:00:38,720a conspiracy theory where no one can agree on a firm accounting of many of the facts.500:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,720Hi Cassie.600:00:39,720 --> 00:00:40,720Hi Caitlyn.700:00:40,720 --> 00:00:42,520Hi creepy people.800:00:42,520 --> 00:00:43,520Hello.900:00:43,520 --> 00:00:44,520Hello.1000:00:44,520 --> 00:00:50,680If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat1100:00:50,680 --> 00:00:58,120about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.1200:00:58,120 --> 00:01:05,000We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for deeper insight into our topic.1300:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,120So make sure you stick around if you're into that witchy goodness.1400:01:09,120 --> 00:01:15,160All right, so today while you're listening to this more than likely, it's Halloween,1500:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,480that's the day we're releasing this episode.1600:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,680So I am so excited.1700:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,680I love Halloween.1800:01:21,680 --> 00:01:23,680I love Halloween.1900:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,680Halloweeny.2000:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,680I like weenies too.2100:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,680Oh boy.2200:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,680Well, get a good chuckle in now.2300:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,680Cause I'm going to I'm going to quash that laughter.2400:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,680Yeah, I know.2500:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,560Yeah, it's kind of my thing.2600:01:38,560 --> 00:01:44,800You guys, I just have to start this episode by saying that real life and particularly true2700:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,480crime, well, they're both pretty messy.2800:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,080Kind of like when I was trying to put those little drinks skewers on with our fancy rosemary2900:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,880and apple.3000:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,720It's a pretty looking cocktail though.3100:01:57,720 --> 00:02:00,440Yeah, you'd never know that there was a mess involved.3200:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,840Yeah, but there was.3300:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,160This wasn't exactly what I thought I was getting into when I started researching the case.3400:02:09,160 --> 00:02:15,480And I might have considered going with a different case for Halloween under different circumstances.3500:02:15,480 --> 00:02:22,320Maybe something from a bygone era that allowed us all to get a little bit of distance.3600:02:22,320 --> 00:02:28,040Celebrate in a more lighthearted way and maybe you'll wish that I did.3700:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,480I hope not.3800:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,560We can all be fun in games all the time.3900:02:32,560 --> 00:02:33,560This is true.4000:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,560This is true.4100:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,040That's not life, baby.4200:02:37,040 --> 00:02:41,560But this case has almost ripped me in half.4300:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,360I swear.4400:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,040It's more times than I can count.4500:02:46,040 --> 00:02:51,520It made me angry and I hope there's a lot about this story that makes you angry but also4600:02:51,520 --> 00:02:53,120makes you think.4700:02:53,120 --> 00:02:59,360I know that we can't all be out changing the very fabric of society each and every day4800:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,080as individuals.4900:03:01,080 --> 00:03:08,040But we can refuse to look away and we can sit in uncomfortable spaces in the hopes of5000:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,080growing.5100:03:10,080 --> 00:03:11,920Please come with us.5200:03:11,920 --> 00:03:17,120I mean, uncomfortable is nice sometimes, right?5300:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,000It makes you enjoy the comfortable.5400:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,400I'm hoping that's what everybody is going to say.5500:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,240Well, I said it for them.5600:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,680Perfect.5700:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,720Now you'll recall we were discussing Emanual Fair's trial.5800:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,200That's the short little mini sneak peak clip, if you will, that was part of our Halloween5900:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,200collaboration.6000:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,000That's the case we're talking about today.6100:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,000Spoilers.6200:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,000Not really spoilers.6300:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,520No, not at all.6400:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,200Unless you haven't listened to it, go back, maybe.6500:03:52,200 --> 00:03:53,960Yeah, I would say.6600:03:53,960 --> 00:03:57,520And there's two parts to the collaboration.6700:03:57,520 --> 00:04:02,120If somehow you missed part two, drop in, go back and listen to that.6800:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,960I'm sure there's some fun creepy stuff in there too.6900:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,920We're actually in part two.7000:04:07,920 --> 00:04:12,040This case truly spans decades already.7100:04:12,040 --> 00:04:17,280Investigators could not establish an exact time of death, instead speculating that our7200:04:17,280 --> 00:04:24,040panna had died at some point early in the morning hours following the Halloween party.7300:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,760Sometime between 3 and 8 a.m.7400:04:27,760 --> 00:04:28,760The witching hour.7500:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,760Yeah.7600:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,960If you're following up listening to the first segment of this story from the Halloween7700:04:34,960 --> 00:04:41,080collaboration, you might also recall that they found Arpana at the foot of her bed.7800:04:41,080 --> 00:04:48,840Her autopsy would later show that she died of esphyxia by ligature strangulation.7900:04:48,840 --> 00:04:54,280Her manner of death was obviously brutal, but within the report it was also noted that8000:04:54,280 --> 00:04:58,720she had sustained multiple blunt force injuries.8100:04:58,720 --> 00:05:03,920However, there are a number of details that we omitted from that short excerpt of the8200:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,740story for, obviously for brevity.8300:05:08,740 --> 00:05:17,340The attack that she had endured and specifically the head trauma resulted in several broken teeth,8400:05:17,340 --> 00:05:19,920which is a particular no no for my brain.8500:05:19,920 --> 00:05:23,240Yeah, as soon as you said teeth, I was like, "Uh oh, she hates it."8600:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,480I hate it.8700:05:25,480 --> 00:05:31,440But it's these next couple of details that are upsetting, I think, for all of the brains,8800:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,800but I do think that they're important to share so that you understand the depth of depravity8900:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,160when it comes to her killer.9000:05:40,160 --> 00:05:48,000Arpana was also gagged using her own underwear, and duct tape was applied as well to keep that9100:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,000in place.9200:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,680Oh God, using someone's own underwear is just like so.9300:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,720What is that word demoralizing?9400:05:54,720 --> 00:05:55,720It is.9500:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,720Demeaning all of that.9600:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,200Yeah, it's really.9700:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,200Yeah.9800:06:00,200 --> 00:06:06,280Presumably prior to her assault, though the final detail related to her assault isn't9900:06:06,280 --> 00:06:11,440completely clear in regards to the timeline.10000:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,960And I'm going to tell you that final detail now.10100:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,440Okay.10200:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,440Prior to the sexual assault, her tampon was removed.10300:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,840Oh, okay.10400:06:22,840 --> 00:06:32,360Which is just, to me, a level of horror that I feel like it's probably wrapped up in a lot10500:06:32,360 --> 00:06:41,240of shame more than anything about female bodily functions, but it really got me in a place10600:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,080that I didn't know I had feels.10700:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,080And I hate it.10800:06:45,080 --> 00:06:51,280Well, even if you don't have shame, which nobody should, about their womanly bleed, it's10900:06:51,280 --> 00:06:52,280fine.11000:06:52,280 --> 00:06:57,080I'm not sure if it's clear, but like it's just so intimate, I feel like it is.11100:06:57,080 --> 00:06:58,080Yeah.11200:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,080It is really intimate.11300:06:59,080 --> 00:07:00,080Yeah.11400:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,760I mean, so is sex, obviously, but there's just, yeah, there's something about that, you're right.11500:07:03,760 --> 00:07:09,720But to do that, which is this, you know, my God, a very like you say, intimate and not in11600:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,520a good way, yeah, there's no positive connotation there.11700:07:14,520 --> 00:07:21,560And then to do something this brutal to her, I just, I can't fathom it.11800:07:21,560 --> 00:07:29,800You'll also recall the laundry list of odd household items that were used pretty bizarrely11900:07:29,800 --> 00:07:37,080seemingly to eradicate evidence bleach, blue toilet bowl cleaner, a common household type12000:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,400of soap and motor oil.12100:07:40,400 --> 00:07:46,040Ugh, the motor oil thing is just really freaks me out.12200:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,840Expanding on that, apparently the killer scrubbed her body with bleach.12300:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,800Oh, scrubbed it?12400:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,200That's how I've heard it described.12500:07:59,200 --> 00:08:05,640Investigators even noting that her hands were stained blue from some type of highly acidic12600:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,360cleaning agent.12700:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,920So I think that's where the toilet bowl cleaner comes in.12800:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,720What the fuck?12900:08:12,720 --> 00:08:14,920It's very strange.13000:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,760So let's talk about potential perpetrators.13100:08:19,760 --> 00:08:27,600Now before a manual was charged, police had another person of interest, several, in fact,13200:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,600one of whom was a neighbor of Arpana's, a white man in his twenties, the same neighbor13300:08:33,600 --> 00:08:38,240who'd entered the apartment with Arpana's family friend.13400:08:38,240 --> 00:08:44,960Also notably someone who is also reportedly considered a suspect in the early days of the13500:08:44,960 --> 00:08:45,960case.13600:08:45,960 --> 00:08:49,560So these are the two people that discovered her body.13700:08:49,560 --> 00:08:53,640One is a neighbor, one is a family friend.13800:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,160That sucks to find that and then be also accused.13900:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,560I could not agree more.14000:08:59,560 --> 00:09:01,880I suspected, not accused, but suspected.14100:09:01,880 --> 00:09:09,480Yeah, I mean, the fact that they suspect you sort of implies an accusation in a way.14200:09:09,480 --> 00:09:19,040The initial investigation focused on this individual and that is the neighbor who is unlikely14300:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,840to be named in most source material that you would come across in this case.14400:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,200Unlike Emanual, of course.14500:09:27,200 --> 00:09:35,800So a lot of source material protects a number of these potential suspects or persons of14600:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,120interest, their names.14700:09:39,120 --> 00:09:47,960And unfortunately, obviously that same level of courtesy or privacy that they're afforded14800:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,760is not something that you'll see for Emanual.14900:09:52,760 --> 00:09:58,520I was going to say that's understandable that they wouldn't want to release their names.15000:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,240Yeah, I feel like it is somewhat unusual.15100:10:03,240 --> 00:10:08,560I think more often than not, we see the names of potential perpetrators being shared.15200:10:08,560 --> 00:10:14,080So that kind of, in my mind, that sort of threw up a flag that there's so many of them15300:10:14,080 --> 00:10:19,400that have by and large remained unnamed.15400:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,600At the time, investigators found the neighbor's activities on the night in question a little15500:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,240bit suspicious.15600:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,440His phone records revealed that he called Arpana at around 3 a.m.15700:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,760on the earliest end of time window of her death.15800:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,280So, okay.15900:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,120Why?16000:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240I just have to say, why?16100:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,440He said he did not remember making the call.16200:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,000Okay, well, come on.16300:10:50,000 --> 00:10:57,960Yeah, I don't love that, but this individual's DNA was also the primary profile found on key16400:10:57,960 --> 00:11:04,320pieces of evidence such as the bottle of motor oil that was discovered in a bag, along16500:11:04,320 --> 00:11:13,040with what authorities presumed was the red robe that Arpana wore on the dates in question,16600:11:13,040 --> 00:11:16,920as well as inside the window of her apartment.16700:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,360So, oh, we've got his DNA in one form or fashion.16800:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,640In the motor oil?16900:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,640Uh-huh.17000:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,240And he wasn't charged?17100:11:28,240 --> 00:11:29,240Nope.17200:11:29,240 --> 00:11:36,760Other than fair and the neighbor, no other DNA profiles from party goers present that night17300:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,040were found on evidence at the crime scene.17400:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,480According to court records, there's still more.17500:11:44,480 --> 00:11:50,240Like the lighter that was found in his apartment with a sticky substance on it that could have17600:11:50,240 --> 00:11:55,000been motor oil, but investigators never collected it.17700:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,000What?17800:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,000Okay.17900:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,120I see that there's some shenanigans going on here.18000:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,440Well, that's one way to put it.18100:12:03,440 --> 00:12:09,200Also located in the search was a list of pawn shops that was printed the day that Arpana18200:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,960was killed.18300:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,640Both her phone and digital camera were never recovered that I could determine.18400:12:16,640 --> 00:12:17,640Okay.18500:12:17,640 --> 00:12:25,640I think the thought process there being that maybe this person stole those items and went18600:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,200to pawn them, but they never found them at pawn shops or anything or did they even look?18700:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,200I, it's unclear.18800:12:33,200 --> 00:12:34,200Yep.18900:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,560Caitlyn, you're supposed to know everything.19000:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,760I, I wish.19100:12:38,760 --> 00:12:45,360Several people present the night of the party stated that they saw him quote, exhibit jealous19200:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,920behavior when she talked to other men at the party.19300:12:49,920 --> 00:12:50,920Ugh.19400:12:50,920 --> 00:12:52,560So, also that.19500:12:52,560 --> 00:12:57,680A review of the transcript of his interview with police reveals that he reported hearing19600:12:57,680 --> 00:13:02,600sounds coming from her apartment around 3 a.m.19700:13:02,600 --> 00:13:09,760But he didn't make much of it and waited until roughly 10 a.m. to call her the next morning.19800:13:09,760 --> 00:13:17,440When police looked at his phone, they noted that he had also called her at 2:56 a.m.19900:13:17,440 --> 00:13:18,440and 3:02 a.m.20000:13:18,440 --> 00:13:19,440Okay.20100:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,520That sounds like someone who is jealous.20200:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,520Yeah.20300:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,520I mean, that's definitely right before the window of time where she died as well.20400:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,880And if he's hearing stuff from her room and then was like, oh, I didn't think anything about20500:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,520it, but earlier was exhibiting jealous behavior.20600:13:37,520 --> 00:13:38,520Okay.20700:13:38,520 --> 00:13:39,520Okay.20800:13:39,520 --> 00:13:45,640So, here's probably the best part about this, which it doesn't mean anything to be clear.20900:13:45,640 --> 00:13:53,920I'm not saying that anyone in this case is guilty when confronted with the evidence that21000:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,840they found in his call log.21100:13:58,840 --> 00:14:03,280My notes say to which he said, oh, crap.21200:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,640Before insisting that he didn't remember why he called her.21300:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,200Oh, crap.21400:14:09,200 --> 00:14:10,200Huh?21500:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,200Yeah.21600:14:11,200 --> 00:14:12,200Yeah, guy.21700:14:12,200 --> 00:14:13,200Yeah.21800:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,280Yeah, which could be a thousand percent accurate.21900:14:17,280 --> 00:14:25,160It could be a simple misremembering of the facts after the fact when alcohol was likely22000:14:25,160 --> 00:14:31,360heavily involved for many of these people, or it could have been a butt dial for that22100:14:31,360 --> 00:14:32,360matter.22200:14:32,360 --> 00:14:37,800I mean, drunk dialing is a thing, butt dialing is a thing, especially at that point.22300:14:37,800 --> 00:14:38,800Yeah.22400:14:38,800 --> 00:14:39,800Yeah.22500:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,360At a point in time where you very literally could butt dial.22600:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,760You can't really do that now.22700:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,040Everyone's got their phone, you know, with a passcode or something.22800:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,040Yeah.22900:14:50,040 --> 00:14:51,040Yeah.23000:14:51,040 --> 00:14:58,000But of course, I saved the most bizarre detail for last that viewed in a certain light is23100:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,760perhaps the most damning.23200:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,120According to interviews by the police, it was at roughly 10 a.m. on the morning that Arpana23300:15:06,120 --> 00:15:14,040was killed that this man's decided to drive two hours up to Canada.23400:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,200Oh, okay.23500:15:16,200 --> 00:15:19,880Where he wait for it.23600:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,760Try to blow through the gates without a passport.23700:15:25,760 --> 00:15:32,280He told detectives he wanted to quote, explore honey.23800:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,280Go south.23900:15:33,280 --> 00:15:34,280Yeah.24000:15:34,280 --> 00:15:35,280Yeah.24100:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,280That is a little bit.24200:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,160But seriously, like if you're going to try to blow through a border, I wouldn't have tried24300:15:40,160 --> 00:15:41,160Canada.24400:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,160Yeah.24500:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,960I mean, I understand that it was closer.24600:15:43,960 --> 00:15:44,960Yeah.24700:15:44,960 --> 00:15:45,960I.24800:15:45,960 --> 00:15:46,960That is super.24900:15:46,960 --> 00:15:47,960That is like not okay.25000:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,160It's it's very erratic.25100:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,080It's very strange.25200:15:53,080 --> 00:15:59,240This next paragraph, I'm just taking directly from a Rolling Stones article that primarily25300:15:59,240 --> 00:16:07,000focused on Emanual's life and the impact of the case.25400:16:07,000 --> 00:16:12,120At the end of the interview when investigators had started putting pressure on him, he asked25500:16:12,120 --> 00:16:18,280investigators to turn off the recording and he discussed something that can't be found25600:16:18,280 --> 00:16:19,600in the police record.25700:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,280What?25800:16:22,280 --> 00:16:27,680When asked what the neighbor said in a pretrial interview obtained by the suspect25900:16:27,680 --> 00:16:36,680podcast, detective codes simply said, I don't recall, despite the apparent evidence against26000:16:36,680 --> 00:16:44,040him, investigators let him leave the police station with his blackberry according to police26100:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,640records, which he subsequently scrubbed.26200:16:48,640 --> 00:16:54,680So when you're asked, what what did the neighbor who tried to literally flee the country26300:16:54,680 --> 00:17:00,440say in his pretrial interview, I don't recall.26400:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,680Also we let him leave the station with his blackberry and it has subsequently been wiped26500:17:05,680 --> 00:17:15,160just to tidy up that little summary for you in case your brain actually exploded hearing26600:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,960that the first time.26700:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,960I don't recall where my brain went.26800:17:18,960 --> 00:17:19,960Yeah.26900:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,480Through the ceiling actually.27000:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,480Wow.27100:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,480Obviously, you know.27200:17:23,480 --> 00:17:32,080We went up to the roof and she took her brain out and she said, a throat on the ground.27300:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,840I was going to say there's a Caitlyn and Cassie brain shaped hole in the ceiling.27400:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,840Yeah.27500:17:37,840 --> 00:17:38,840Absolutely.27600:17:38,840 --> 00:17:39,840Did that make sense?27700:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,360Yeah, I did.27800:17:42,360 --> 00:17:47,040Here's the kind of crazy thing to me.27900:17:47,040 --> 00:17:53,440Even if based on some of the DNA and other forensic evidence, the idea might have seemed28000:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,440plausible.28100:17:55,440 --> 00:18:03,600Ostensibly, the prosecution wanted to charge Emmanuel, an only Emanuel, which they did, but28200:18:03,600 --> 00:18:10,920they wanted to argue that maybe the neighbor had something to do with it.28300:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,080This next part is about how that shook out.28400:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,600I just can't believe this.28500:18:16,600 --> 00:18:23,400Like, yeah, I would say that the neighbor looks a little, maybe not hands perfectly clean.28600:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,640On this, but what do I know?28700:18:26,640 --> 00:18:35,000I mean, if his DNA was found on the motor oil, that was a part of the crime scene evidence28800:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,040taken, I just feel like that's.28900:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,440It doesn't look great.29000:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,440Yeah.29100:18:40,440 --> 00:18:46,920But it's like they can't make up a clear series of events.29200:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,120They can't figure out who has the motive or.29300:18:51,120 --> 00:18:57,960So when you bring a case to court, ideally, you want to really know exactly what happened.29400:18:57,960 --> 00:18:58,960Yeah.29500:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,200That's how you get a conviction.29600:19:01,200 --> 00:19:06,480Before the trial, it was decided that the evidence linking the neighbor to possible involvement29700:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,320in the crime was admissible.29800:19:09,320 --> 00:19:15,280But the prosecution would of course argue that incriminating evidence against the neighbor29900:19:15,280 --> 00:19:22,120did not inherently mean that Emanual was innocent, which is true.30000:19:22,120 --> 00:19:26,200But for Christ's sake, guys, can you just present a clear case?30100:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,440Anyways, I digress.30200:19:28,440 --> 00:19:35,360It seemed far more reasonable that two people who would only just barely met might have teamed30300:19:35,360 --> 00:19:39,120up on this horrific crime out of the blue.30400:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,840Because why not, right?30500:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,640I know I like to.30600:19:43,640 --> 00:19:44,760I don't like to.30700:19:44,760 --> 00:19:46,760But I do do this.30800:19:46,760 --> 00:19:53,040I know that I often assume the worst about men, but this seems a bit of a stretch.30900:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,840Yeah, I agree.31000:19:54,840 --> 00:20:00,200According to the state's case, the neighbor was classified more accurately as an uncharged31100:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,960accomplice rather than the other suspect.31200:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,480Though to be fair, prosecutors were barred from using the argument that the neighbor and31300:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,560Emanual had acted as accomplices.31400:20:14,560 --> 00:20:19,640It's a reason that there wasn't sufficient evidence to support theory, which no shit31500:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,640sure lock.31600:20:21,640 --> 00:20:28,440The state court of appeals upheld the court's decision and the state's Supreme Court ultimately31700:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,240declined to review it.31800:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,760This is just so ridiculous.31900:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,080Like if you can't figure out who you think did it and whether or not it was more than32000:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,760one perpetrator, maybe that's not a case we take to court.32100:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,000I was gonna say maybe you're not ready yet, maybe sit on that egg a little while and let32200:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,000it hatch.32300:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,160You let you put that one back in the oven.32400:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,960She needs to keep cooking.32500:20:50,960 --> 00:20:56,880We were restricted in what we could say in that they may have acted together, said Brian32600:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,200McDonald, one of two lead prosecutors on the case.32700:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,880You'll know I did include his name.32800:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,520This restriction allowed the defense to argue that any evidence involving the neighbor32900:21:10,520 --> 00:21:16,800should be reasonable doubt as to whether Emanuel committed the crime.33000:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,360Emanuel contends in a lawsuit that authorities, quote, ignored and failed to gather evidence33100:21:23,360 --> 00:21:27,160that did not align with their theory of the case.33200:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,440Because yeah, in case it wasn't already clear, there's a lawsuit.33300:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,440That's good.33400:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,600Yeah, I tend to think so.33500:21:36,600 --> 00:21:42,520Now there are additional persons of interest that you'd hear more about in more in-depth33600:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,920coverage in a multi-part case series.33700:21:47,920 --> 00:21:48,920I did not do that.33800:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,080It's only Halloween for one day.33900:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,040Yeah, this was already a lot.34000:21:54,040 --> 00:21:59,240Some of them were part of a local motorcycle group that Arpana had joined.34100:21:59,240 --> 00:22:00,760Oh, Arpana!34200:22:00,760 --> 00:22:01,760I know.34300:22:01,760 --> 00:22:02,760I love that.34400:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,320Don't love that they're suspected.34500:22:04,320 --> 00:22:05,320Yeah.34600:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,080I like this next party, the less.34700:22:07,080 --> 00:22:08,080Okay.34800:22:08,080 --> 00:22:12,080Two of the members of the group had a history of sexual crimes.34900:22:12,080 --> 00:22:18,400But one in particular had been actively sexually harassing her reportedly.35000:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,880Oh, so that's damn.35100:22:22,880 --> 00:22:28,640Depending on how shaded you are, this next part may or may not surprise you at this point.35200:22:28,640 --> 00:22:35,240Police also found DNA from a third biker who she had been sleeping with on her costume.35300:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,640That's where they found the DNA.35400:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,000And on the sheet that was draped over her body.35500:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,000Okay.35600:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,560I mean, if she was already doing it with them, I could see how...35700:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,040Maybe that was already there.35800:22:47,040 --> 00:22:48,040Yeah.35900:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,040It's hard to say.36000:22:49,040 --> 00:22:54,600Additionally, there was another resident at the apartment complex that unfortunately died36100:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,920by suicide just days after her death.36200:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,000Oh, no.36300:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,480This individual's DNA was never compared to the crime scene according to the most recent36400:23:06,480 --> 00:23:12,320reporting on the case based primarily on Emanuel's lawsuit.36500:23:12,320 --> 00:23:18,120So I have every reason to think that I'm not mistaken here.36600:23:18,120 --> 00:23:23,400Unfortunately, they did not test that person's DNA against the evidence.36700:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,720Oh, so that's us.36800:23:25,720 --> 00:23:27,720That's unfortunate.36900:23:27,720 --> 00:23:36,040Now here's where we turn a corner because this case certainly at least feels more complicated37000:23:36,040 --> 00:23:42,400than I understood it to be at the outset because there are certainly factors related to37100:23:42,400 --> 00:23:50,040the individuals involved in this case that are at least cause for concern or consideration,37200:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,760maybe pause.37300:23:51,760 --> 00:23:55,920And that of course includes Emanuel.37400:23:55,920 --> 00:24:03,600I say this with trepidation because I can't tell you that I've landed on my own personal,37500:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,440solid theory in this case.37600:24:06,440 --> 00:24:13,080But I want to represent as much information about every aspect of the case as I can so37700:24:13,080 --> 00:24:20,000that you walk away feeling like maybe you can decide for yourself.37800:24:20,000 --> 00:24:27,160If it were more clear, you know, I take no issue with roasting the guilty party.37900:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,740The problem is that in a case like this, it just might be too ambiguous to do so with38000:24:33,740 --> 00:24:34,760any confidence.38100:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,040Oh, and yeah, we don't want to be sued.38200:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,040Yeah, no.38300:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,040So there's that.38400:24:41,040 --> 00:24:48,440A handful of years before our Arpana's horrific murder, Emanuel Fair had been arrested and38500:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,320charged with raping a minor.38600:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,760Ew.38700:24:54,760 --> 00:25:01,880According to the 15 year old victim, he had raped her numerous times, which is unimaginably38800:25:01,880 --> 00:25:02,880awful.38900:25:02,880 --> 00:25:11,200However, there was an additional altercation that took place in Burian where Emanuel reportedly39000:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,960choked the girl at gunpoint.39100:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,080Oh, the choking.39200:25:17,080 --> 00:25:24,280He was arrested for this crime and ended up pleading guilty to avoid a decade plus prison39300:25:24,280 --> 00:25:31,800sentence, pleading down from second degree to third degree rape.39400:25:31,800 --> 00:25:38,560Though Emanuel began serving out his four year sentence in 2004, he would ultimately be39500:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,640released in less than three years.39600:25:42,640 --> 00:25:49,280At the time of his release, he was labeled a level one offender, meaning he was amongst39700:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,600those considered the least likely to reoffend.39800:25:53,600 --> 00:26:00,720If you want to hear another infuriating case about someone labeled a level one sex offender,39900:26:00,720 --> 00:26:07,240go back and listen to the Richard Gilmore aka the jogger rapist case.40000:26:07,240 --> 00:26:08,920I remember that.40100:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,680That's the first thing that popped in my head when he said that.40200:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,480At gunpoint.40300:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,480Reportedly.40400:26:17,480 --> 00:26:18,480Yeah.40500:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,480Okay.40600:26:19,480 --> 00:26:20,480Yeah.40700:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,480Report allegedly.40800:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,480I get it.40900:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,480Yeah.41000:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,480I mean, he was convicted.41100:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,880So I feel like I'm honestly probably being a bit generous.41200:26:27,880 --> 00:26:30,400But we're trying to parse out some nuance here.41300:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,400Yeah.41400:26:31,400 --> 00:26:38,720However, as is often the case, Immanuel failed to abide by the terms of his release and ultimately41500:26:38,720 --> 00:26:44,440his probation violations landed him in custody of the state again.41600:26:44,440 --> 00:26:51,640Once released in the fall of 2006, Emanuel would commence a roughly three year long period41700:26:51,640 --> 00:26:56,440of cycling between either homelessness or prison incarceration.41800:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,440Damn.41900:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,960This included the period in which Arpana was murdered.42000:27:02,960 --> 00:27:08,080He was couch surfing with a friend that lived in the complex on that fateful night.42100:27:08,080 --> 00:27:15,040Initially the friend he had been staying with lied about the fact when questioned by police.42200:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,320But they were later able to determine he had been present by coming through the various42300:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,280photos that partygoers had taken.42400:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,320Many posted to Facebook as was the norm for many 20-somethings at that time.42500:27:29,320 --> 00:27:30,320Yeah.42600:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,400Social media will get your ass.42700:27:34,400 --> 00:27:43,880Once jailed he would remain there for eight years, seven months and 14 days.42800:27:43,880 --> 00:27:51,320Let's recall that this is all without ever being convicted of a crime.42900:27:51,320 --> 00:27:52,320Jesus.43000:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,440At least not this crime.43100:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,080That's a long time though.43200:27:57,080 --> 00:27:58,080Yes.43300:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,320I probably said that last time, but oh my god.43400:28:02,320 --> 00:28:09,160During this period he was primarily isolated due in large part to the fact that the facility43500:28:09,160 --> 00:28:15,480was not designed for long term imprisonment.43600:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,200Throughout the duration he maintained his innocence.43700:28:20,200 --> 00:28:27,480So what does it tell you when someone has basically overstayed their welcome in a facility43800:28:27,480 --> 00:28:33,000that's not meant for someone to be held long term?43900:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,520There's so many things wrong with that.44000:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,720And if you held for eight years when you're saying you're innocent, if you're really innocent44100:28:40,720 --> 00:28:48,400and then you're being kept in solitary, oh my god, that just fucks with you.44200:28:48,400 --> 00:28:55,600So I would implore you to listen to this next section with an open mind.44300:28:55,600 --> 00:29:02,080Not because I necessarily feel confident that Emanual is completely innocent, but because44400:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,280we're all supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.44500:29:07,280 --> 00:29:12,040And because at this stage, whether what's been shared with you up to this point has you44600:29:12,040 --> 00:29:19,400convinced one way or another regarding Emanual's guilt or innocence or another suspects44700:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,560for that matter, it's important to note that there's no official resolution.44800:29:25,560 --> 00:29:36,440How a case is approached from minute one matters because one misstep can leave so much room44900:29:36,440 --> 00:29:43,120for speculation, for doubt, and ultimately a completely solvable case may end up in a45000:29:43,120 --> 00:29:50,720stack of unsolved cold cases or become a conspiracy theory where no one can agree on a firm45100:29:50,720 --> 00:29:56,400accounting of many of the facts.45200:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,440As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.45300:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,280So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.45400:30:05,280 --> 00:30:13,000Let's show them some love you can find their info in our show notes.45500:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,000Can you hear me?45600:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,520Good to have you back with us.45700:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,960I hope you don't mind that I am recording for investigative notes.45800:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,160It's a wax cylinder, the only thing we've found that can pick up the voices of people in45900:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,840your condition.46000:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,120My name is Owen von Sid, I am a reclamer.46100:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,800Do you know what that means?46200:30:32,800 --> 00:30:33,800No?46300:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,600Well, I am sorry to inform you that you didn't make it.46400:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,720Please try to remain calm.46500:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,920The worst is over.46600:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,760Nothing can hurt you, not ever again.46700:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,920But the thing that did this to you is still out there.46800:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,120That is what we do.46900:30:51,120 --> 00:30:57,080I wake unfortunate souls such as yourself, hear their stories, then my associates and I47000:30:57,080 --> 00:31:03,720see to it that whoever or whatever did this to you is dealt with.47100:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,800Now let's begin.47200:31:05,800 --> 00:31:07,600When you are ready.47300:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,120Tell me.47400:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,840How did you die?47500:31:11,840 --> 00:31:17,160Ghost Wax is an anthology horror podcast from far-intel tales productions.47600:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,520New episodes releasing weekly.47700:31:19,520 --> 00:31:25,800Look for us wherever you get your podcasts.47800:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,200You guys were back.47900:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,800And don't worry, we did get more wine.48000:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,240Well, of course.48100:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,080Emanuel would ultimately face two trials.48200:31:39,080 --> 00:31:46,200In our previous discussion of the case, we left off at the first in 2017.48300:31:46,200 --> 00:31:56,600The trial ended in a hung jury because of one juror who said, "And yes, this is a quote."48400:31:56,600 --> 00:32:07,040After the trial that when he looked at Emanuel, he saw a "thug" with tattoos on his hands.48500:32:07,040 --> 00:32:08,960Okay.48600:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,920The second trial ended in June of 2019.48700:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,920Jesus.48800:32:15,920 --> 00:32:22,200The jury determined that the detectives and prosecutors had never had a strong enough case48900:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,240against him.49000:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,680He was cleared of all charges and was released.49100:32:28,680 --> 00:32:33,240Which makes it all seem too easy.49200:32:33,240 --> 00:32:42,800Now, two years later, he's suing everyone that had the power to put him in that cell.49300:32:42,800 --> 00:32:49,360He filed a lawsuit against the county, the city of Redmond, the Redmond Police Department,49400:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,880even the detective on the case.49500:32:52,880 --> 00:33:00,440The prosecutor, amongst many others, were later added to the complaint by his legal team.49600:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,720Quoting again here.49700:33:02,720 --> 00:33:10,320The suit contends that he never would have been in that cell and certainly not for years49800:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,360if he weren't a black man with a criminal record.49900:33:14,360 --> 00:33:22,360The suit describes an investigation that was so badly handled it can only be characterized50000:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,360as bizarre.50100:33:24,360 --> 00:33:29,920Yeah, holy shit.50200:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,160What's upsetting about that is that it's really not that bizarre.50300:33:34,160 --> 00:33:35,160Yeah.50400:33:35,160 --> 00:33:45,480It's baffling, but I would argue it is something we're all a little too accustomed to.50500:33:45,480 --> 00:33:46,960Yeah, pretty common.50600:33:46,960 --> 00:33:55,440And again, I'm not clamoring saying that I believe him to necessarily be innocent, but two50700:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,320rungs don't make a right.50800:33:58,320 --> 00:34:04,160Rolling stones account of Emanual's case and the investigation into Arpana's murder50900:34:04,160 --> 00:34:10,840is based on more than a thousand pages of case files and legal documents.51000:34:10,840 --> 00:34:18,840They show that there was persuasive evidence against at least six other suspects that the51100:34:18,840 --> 00:34:26,920detectives were investigating none of whom were black and none of whom spent a day in jail51200:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,240for Arpana's murder.51300:34:30,240 --> 00:34:36,720His lawsuit claims the detectives on the case ignored and failed to gather evidence that51400:34:36,720 --> 00:34:43,680did not align with their theory of the case, but it also alleges they treated Emanual so51500:34:43,680 --> 00:34:51,440differently than the white suspects that the treatment can only be viewed as racial discrimination.51600:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,160It's very clear.51700:34:54,160 --> 00:35:00,120I mean, if that's not what it is, then they really fucked themselves.51800:35:00,120 --> 00:35:05,840They really shot themselves in the foot by just bungling through.51900:35:05,840 --> 00:35:12,640The case files illustrate a number of breaches of protocol, some characterized as careless52000:35:12,640 --> 00:35:21,520errors, which is not something I ever want to see in connection with a murder investigation.52100:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,200You'd hope.52200:35:23,200 --> 00:35:29,520Just a few examples, such as not training their detectives to change gloves between DNA52300:35:29,520 --> 00:35:30,520samples.52400:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,160What the fuck years is this?52500:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,280I literally don't remember.52600:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,120I think it's like 2009.52700:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,720Way after CSI.52800:35:38,720 --> 00:35:42,040Like, you know these things, even if you're not trained.52900:35:42,040 --> 00:35:43,040You should know.53000:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,040Right.53100:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,040Jesus, really.53200:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,600They didn't change their effing gloves.53300:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,160You have to do that while handling food.53400:35:53,160 --> 00:36:00,080And also not securing key locations of the crime scene.53500:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,560There's more.53600:36:02,560 --> 00:36:09,240To calling in a famous psychic medium to weigh in on the case, which like do you boo, but53700:36:09,240 --> 00:36:17,240you don't get to do that when you've done all of the other things that predate that.53800:36:17,240 --> 00:36:18,240Yeah.53900:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,840Doing that should just supplement all the right things you do.54000:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,800I just, and there's a lot of people that would say, no, you never do that.54100:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,280So I feel as though we're being fairly generous.54200:36:29,280 --> 00:36:37,800And I think it's because we're witches, but the case against a manual that led to his nearly54300:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,880nine years spent behind bars relied heavily on DNA evidence.54400:36:43,880 --> 00:36:50,360Trace amounts found on Arpana's neck, her robe, and the duct tape used to restrain54500:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,560her.54600:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,080But understanding how some of that evidence could have been mishandled, certainly muddies54700:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,920the water.54800:36:59,920 --> 00:37:05,880It also seems fair to say that Emanual's background likely led to bias as well.54900:37:05,880 --> 00:37:10,600When they ran a background check and discovered that he had a record, they may have immediately55000:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,440thought they'd found their man.55100:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,440Though the bulk of the report showed mostly juvenile offenses like possession of drugs55200:37:18,440 --> 00:37:23,160and an unlicensed weapon.55300:37:23,160 --> 00:37:30,640There was a charge that would have stood out from 2004, the third degree rape charge.55400:37:30,640 --> 00:37:38,920He had entered an Alfred plea in that case, which means that he accepted the plea agreement55500:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,080while still maintaining his innocence.55600:37:43,080 --> 00:37:47,920A common tactic when you can't afford to go to trial.55700:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,760Oh, that just makes me so sad because what if he is innocent of all of it?55800:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,920He spent three years in prison for that charge.55900:37:58,920 --> 00:38:08,120In a 2016 pretrial interview obtained by the suspect podcast, Detective Cotes was asked56000:38:08,120 --> 00:38:14,440if the prior conviction was significant to his investigation.56100:38:14,440 --> 00:38:19,280He replied, "If you've done it before, you'll do it again."56200:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,080Oh, come on.56300:38:21,080 --> 00:38:25,680Which I hate how much.56400:38:25,680 --> 00:38:35,680It brought up Richard Gilmore for me because that's exactly what I would say about him.56500:38:35,680 --> 00:38:36,680Yeah.56600:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,680And hopefully, I'm wrong.56700:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,080I'm fucking hopes so too.56800:38:43,080 --> 00:38:48,240Which may well be at least anecdotally correct.56900:38:48,240 --> 00:38:53,320I think there are statistics to back that up with certain types of crimes, but it doesn't57000:38:53,320 --> 00:38:59,080necessarily look great to have said that on the record regarding this case.57100:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,240Yeah, because you're never going to get rid of that.57200:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,400You're always going to have that bias now.57300:39:03,400 --> 00:39:04,400Yep.57400:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,920But of course, it was the testing of the DNA that really got us here.57500:39:09,920 --> 00:39:16,480His DNA matched a sample found on Arpana's robe that was found at the crime scene, which57600:39:16,480 --> 00:39:24,880as you'll recall was an unsecured apartment unit and the complex dumpster, essentially.57700:39:24,880 --> 00:39:30,200They also confirmed that he was a match to DNA connected to the role of duct tape that57800:39:30,200 --> 00:39:36,440was used in the crime scene as well, which would be damning, but I feel as though there could57900:39:36,440 --> 00:39:43,320be plenty of reasonable explanations on Halloween night for him to have touched that in a completely58000:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,960unrelated manner.58100:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,040Doesn't that seem like something, you know, like part of your costume is, you know, coming58200:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,040apart.58300:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,640Maybe you need a piece of duct tape or I don't know.58400:39:56,640 --> 00:40:03,800I just feel like in a big group of drunk people, presumably on Halloween night at a Halloween58500:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,520party in costumes, like something breaks.58600:40:08,520 --> 00:40:14,160I just, I came up with a few different ideas for like why maybe that happened.58700:40:14,160 --> 00:40:15,160Yeah.58800:40:15,160 --> 00:40:16,360Why would you need duct tape?58900:40:16,360 --> 00:40:18,040What would you need it for?59000:40:18,040 --> 00:40:24,800Why would there be a perfectly reasonable, like alternate story behind that?59100:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,040Well, people use duct tape all the time.59200:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,400It's a staple, so I think it's less suspicious than the fucking motor oil.59300:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,400Yeah.59400:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,200I have to agree.59500:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,840I have to agree.59600:40:35,840 --> 00:40:38,360But it's hard to know one way or the other.59700:40:38,360 --> 00:40:46,760There was also a match to a tiny sliver of DNA, so small that it had to be sent to a specialized59800:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,240lab on the front of Arpana's neck.59900:40:50,240 --> 00:40:59,520So, but I have to wonder if our evolving understanding of touch DNA in more recent years60000:40:59,520 --> 00:41:06,320perhaps changes the perception of how valuable this particular sample is to the prosecution's60100:41:06,320 --> 00:41:07,320case.60200:41:07,320 --> 00:41:16,520It's entirely possible in certain situations, especially if you were engaged in some type60300:41:16,520 --> 00:41:24,880of an intimate or sexual encounter that was consensual that you could leave DNA behind60400:41:24,880 --> 00:41:25,880on someone.60500:41:25,880 --> 00:41:26,880Yeah.60600:41:26,880 --> 00:41:36,360So, this case is really one of the first where I thought to myself, wow, is that even evidence?60700:41:36,360 --> 00:41:42,680I'm certainly not going to, I'm not going to say one way or the other.60800:41:42,680 --> 00:41:52,520I don't have enough detailed in-depth knowledge of how that DNA testing is done, you know,60900:41:52,520 --> 00:41:59,320what the sample size is, but it's my new, it's done by a specialty lab and it definitely61000:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,320makes you wonder.61100:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,560Did they say what it was?61200:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,640What if he just like sneezed on her?61300:42:04,640 --> 00:42:09,680Yeah, that's the other thing is, you know, I probably could have dug around any of the61400:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,640court records to find out like, okay, is this blood, is this semen, is this spit, is this,61500:42:14,640 --> 00:42:20,880but to me, it almost is like, if it's really that minute, it almost doesn't even matter.61600:42:20,880 --> 00:42:22,280Yeah.61700:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,280I don't know.61800:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,480It's about a hug or something, what if, I don't know.61900:42:26,480 --> 00:42:32,640I mean, quite literally, I've been hearing more and more about cases where people are convicted62000:42:32,640 --> 00:42:41,600on, you know, such minute samples or, you know, this kind of, the principle of it being touch62100:42:41,600 --> 00:42:51,960DNA and it really sets people up to look guilty when they're not because the jury is made62200:42:51,960 --> 00:42:59,640up of people like me who don't really understand that like, this is minute and they're not going62300:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,920out of their way to explain that.62400:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,480Police files show that there are multiple other men in Arpana's life that had as much62500:43:08,480 --> 00:43:16,720if not more evidence against them and several more that were never thoroughly investigated.62600:43:16,720 --> 00:43:22,840The key difference between them, the suit alleges is that none of the other men were black.62700:43:22,840 --> 00:43:27,800Under the law, probable cause requires you to look at the whole picture.62800:43:27,800 --> 00:43:33,160You can't leave out the fact that there was basically everyone else's DNA at the scene62900:43:33,160 --> 00:43:36,400too and they did.63000:43:36,400 --> 00:43:43,000And that's a quote actually taken from a statement provided by Emanuel's legal team.63100:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,040And you know what, they're not wrong.63200:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,560No, because they're lawyers, so they checked.63300:43:49,560 --> 00:43:51,040They lawyered hard.63400:43:51,040 --> 00:43:53,560They lawyered so hard.63500:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,640His and an uncle showed up at the courthouse every day during his trial.63600:43:59,640 --> 00:44:05,680Whenever his case was on the docket, even if he wasn't going to be there, they packed lunch63700:44:05,680 --> 00:44:10,800and snacks for long hours spent on hard courthouse benches.63800:44:10,800 --> 00:44:18,440Now his aunt describes that time as understandably the worst years.63900:44:18,440 --> 00:44:19,440Years.64000:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,360I just, I cannot believe how long it took.64100:44:23,360 --> 00:44:29,760Emanuel now lives with the couple as he attempts to rebuild his life, but he struggled finding64200:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,600suitable long term employment.64300:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,280I, yeah, make sense.64400:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,680But prepare yourself because you're going to be super pissed about some of the employment64500:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,720that he has found.64600:44:41,720 --> 00:44:49,520According to the Rolling Stone, since his release, he exists in a strange systemic purgatory.64700:44:49,520 --> 00:44:55,640A man who was incarcerated for nearly a decade, but never convicted of a crime.64800:44:55,640 --> 00:45:02,080Emanuel says that while he was in jail, he dreaded the possibility of being convicted and64900:45:02,080 --> 00:45:03,880exonerated.65000:45:03,880 --> 00:45:11,960His lawyers say that in some ways, at least, he would have been better off if he had been.65100:45:11,960 --> 00:45:19,480His lawyer said, let's imagine that Immanuel was wrongfully convicted.65200:45:19,480 --> 00:45:25,860He would have spent a number of years in prison, but when he got out, he would be on parole.65300:45:25,860 --> 00:45:31,840There would be people to help him get a job, to help him get his feet on the ground, some65400:45:31,840 --> 00:45:36,240very, very needed mental health care.65500:45:36,240 --> 00:45:45,680He suffers from depression, anxiety and PTSD, but because he wasn't convicted, he's got nothing.65600:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,800Nothing, they don't do anything for you.65700:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,880And I said, you're going to hate what kind of work he has found.65800:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,600He has worked in security.65900:45:58,600 --> 00:46:07,000I was going to say security, which is just, you know, for anyone that's been convicted of66000:46:07,000 --> 00:46:12,920a crime previously, you know, this is prior to the crime that we're even talking about today.66100:46:12,920 --> 00:46:15,760I'm sorry, you just, what?66200:46:15,760 --> 00:46:23,880Yeah, security, but security, you know, it should feel secure.66300:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,760It boggles the mind.66400:46:26,760 --> 00:46:31,680And this next part, it really makes me want to cry.66500:46:31,680 --> 00:46:38,460Emanuel says that he was reluctant to file his lawsuit at first, knowing that Arpana's66600:46:38,460 --> 00:46:42,400family still hasn't gotten justice.66700:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,880There's no resolution for this case, no resolution for her.66800:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,960He said that?66900:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,640That just makes me feel like he is innocent.67000:46:52,640 --> 00:46:57,720I mean, it could be for show, but I just don't know why you would say something like that.67100:46:57,720 --> 00:46:59,720Just never talk about it again.67200:46:59,720 --> 00:47:00,720Right.67300:47:00,720 --> 00:47:02,480I mean, you're in a lawsuit, but still.67400:47:02,480 --> 00:47:03,480Yeah.67500:47:03,480 --> 00:47:04,480I don't know.67600:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,760It really, it really makes you think.67700:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,480And I definitely, I'll show you some of the photos that I found.67800:47:11,480 --> 00:47:18,720And you can help me pick out our, our photos for the, for any of our posts this week.67900:47:18,720 --> 00:47:27,160But my God, to look at some of these photos, I just think it's, it's going to be a tough,68000:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,880tough thing for someone to convince me that, that this is the guy.68100:47:32,880 --> 00:47:40,920And the fact that he, the Alfred plea, in the case where he was convicted, it just, yeah,68200:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,240it's a really sad story from every single angle.68300:47:46,240 --> 00:47:51,400So, because he never got the chance the first time to prove he was innocent.68400:47:51,400 --> 00:47:52,400Yeah.68500:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,200He just had to do that.68600:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,200Yeah.68700:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,480So happy fucking Halloween.68800:47:59,480 --> 00:48:00,480This was it.68900:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,160Yeah, it was, it was a really rough one.69000:48:02,160 --> 00:48:03,560Do you see these?69100:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,600I have goosebumps all over me.69200:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,240Yeah, my feet have been getting really chilled.69300:48:08,240 --> 00:48:10,680That's why I have one leg up in my chair.69400:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,800It didn't start until you said that quote.69500:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,000And then I just, all of a sudden got all my hair is standing out.69600:48:16,000 --> 00:48:20,920I've had the chili willies for about three or four minutes now.69700:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,920Yeah.69800:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,400So, wow.69900:48:23,400 --> 00:48:24,400Yeah.70000:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,400So, you think we should do some, Tarot?70100:48:28,400 --> 00:48:30,640Yeah, let's do some, Tarot.70200:48:30,640 --> 00:48:31,640Tara.70300:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,880Let's do the more actual Halloweeny stuff.70400:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,880Yeah.70500:48:34,880 --> 00:48:35,880Yeah.70600:48:35,880 --> 00:48:37,200I feel like it always makes us feel better.70700:48:37,200 --> 00:48:38,200Yeah.70800:48:38,200 --> 00:48:39,200Yeah.70900:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,200It's a good way to end it.71000:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,200Tarot?71100:48:41,200 --> 00:48:42,200Tarot?71200:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,200Okay.71300:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,200Okay.71400:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,680We have a beautiful set up today by Caitlyn.71500:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,840By Caitlyn, for Caitlyn.71600:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,880On Caitlyn?71700:48:56,880 --> 00:49:00,080Oh, I should mark.71800:49:00,080 --> 00:49:04,080We have an orb visitor today.71900:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,760We have the light shining just right on the camera that we have a little green orb back72000:49:08,760 --> 00:49:09,760there.72100:49:09,760 --> 00:49:10,760Oh.72200:49:10,760 --> 00:49:14,560We have beautiful incense today.72300:49:14,560 --> 00:49:15,560We do.72400:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,640What flavor did we choose for today?72500:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,640This one's sales.72600:49:22,640 --> 00:49:23,640Positive facts.72700:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,480Oh, that's a great thing to burn.72800:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,480Yeah.72900:49:27,480 --> 00:49:28,480Especially right now.73000:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,480Yeah.73100:49:29,480 --> 00:49:33,040I felt like that seemed right.73200:49:33,040 --> 00:49:34,840Okay.73300:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,480What remind me her name, I forget.73400:49:37,480 --> 00:49:38,480Arpana.73500:49:38,480 --> 00:49:39,920I was like, I know, I know it.73600:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,920It's just not coming to me in this moment.73700:49:43,920 --> 00:49:52,760Arpana thinking about her possibly innocent man's Emanual.73800:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,960Mm hmm.73900:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,080I only knew that because like that's an easier name to remember.74000:49:59,080 --> 00:50:04,480So, well, it was very fresh because that's the part of the case that we were talking74100:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,760about at length.74200:50:06,760 --> 00:50:07,760Okay.74300:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,760I just love the name, Arpana too.74400:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,160It's so pretty.74500:50:11,160 --> 00:50:12,160It is pretty.74600:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,000I'm just going to keep saying it so that I remember it for always.74700:50:16,000 --> 00:50:20,160That's pretty good.74800:50:20,160 --> 00:50:26,600We have a nice apple and rosemary garnish that you did not just see fall apart.74900:50:26,600 --> 00:50:27,600No.75000:50:27,600 --> 00:50:28,600No.75100:50:28,600 --> 00:50:36,520We are drinking a combination of the cranberry cheers, truly.75200:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,200And vanna that, yeah, she's doing excellent work over there.75300:50:41,200 --> 00:50:45,760It's a spiced apple wine, which is brew.75400:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,640So, it's a drink up, which is on the top, drink up, which is, I should have worn that shirt75500:50:50,640 --> 00:50:51,640again.75600:50:51,640 --> 00:50:52,640You should have.75700:50:52,640 --> 00:50:53,640Yeah.75800:50:53,640 --> 00:50:54,640Your matches.75900:50:54,640 --> 00:50:55,640Yeah.76000:50:55,640 --> 00:51:01,480Well, and it's in the shot from me and Chris in the kitchen.76100:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,240Well, I have, I have a purpose for that photo.76200:51:04,240 --> 00:51:05,240Oh, yeah.76300:51:05,240 --> 00:51:07,240That was pretty funny.76400:51:07,240 --> 00:51:08,240Yeah.76500:51:08,240 --> 00:51:14,600Also, speaking of Ouija, I learned something I didn't really know before.76600:51:14,600 --> 00:51:15,600Tail me.76700:51:15,600 --> 00:51:23,120So, apparently, a Ouija board that's just a decoration and not meant for portal spirit76800:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,880communication purposes won't accidentally communicate with the spirit for you.76900:51:27,880 --> 00:51:28,880Well done.77000:51:28,880 --> 00:51:29,880Good.77100:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,880Yeah.77200:51:30,880 --> 00:51:32,720Which I kind of, I kind of suspected, but I don't know.77300:51:32,720 --> 00:51:37,800People were worried about their decorations and I have a lot of Ouija decorations.77400:51:37,800 --> 00:51:44,200This is literally the only thing that I own and I felt like, I thought about that today.77500:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400That's the only thing she owns.77600:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,920Am I inviting, it's the only Ouija?77700:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,320Am I inviting something to come home with me by wearing this?77800:51:56,320 --> 00:51:57,320No.77900:51:57,320 --> 00:51:58,960Am I going out into the world?78000:51:58,960 --> 00:51:59,960I felt like no.78100:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,600But if you're not intending to, then you're not.78200:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,280I never intend to.78300:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,800Let the record state clearly that I never intend to.78400:52:09,800 --> 00:52:18,800Okay, so we got the star in reverse and it's a cute little ghosty pouring out some jugs.78500:52:18,800 --> 00:52:19,800Jugs.78600:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,240We like them jugs around here.78700:52:22,240 --> 00:52:23,240Okay.78800:52:23,240 --> 00:52:24,840Are you ready for the this?78900:52:24,840 --> 00:52:25,840Yes.79000:52:25,840 --> 00:52:26,840Okay.79100:52:26,840 --> 00:52:36,080The words for the star are happiness, hope, light at the end of the tunnel and good fortune.79200:52:36,080 --> 00:52:37,080Okay.79300:52:37,080 --> 00:52:45,920And so similar to the visual in our card imagery here, this lovely card often portrays a79400:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,920nude female figure in or beside a pool of water.79500:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,240She too is pouring from jugs.79600:52:52,240 --> 00:52:56,440So very, very on point with a ghosty.79700:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,680In the writer wait Smith Deck, she pours the contents of one picture into a stream and79800:53:01,680 --> 00:53:07,960the other onto the ground, showing the connection between the two feminine elements, water79900:53:07,960 --> 00:53:09,800and earth.80000:53:09,800 --> 00:53:16,760Stars shine in the background, sometimes in a circle or like, oh, or a halo-like formation80100:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,800around her.80200:53:18,800 --> 00:53:23,160The naked woman represents truth and purity.80300:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,000Did you see how that word just like almost wouldn't come out of my mouth?80400:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,240Like you were burning from the inside.80500:53:29,240 --> 00:53:30,240From the inside out.80600:53:30,240 --> 00:53:31,240So pure.80700:53:31,240 --> 00:53:34,480The jugs contain the waters of life.80800:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,480Okay.80900:53:35,480 --> 00:53:40,920And that's all I'm going to read because I think on the description otherwise it differs81000:53:40,920 --> 00:53:41,920with this one.81100:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,200So I'm going to, I'm going to continue one.81200:53:46,200 --> 00:53:47,200There's an extra excerpt.81300:53:47,200 --> 00:53:48,200Okay.81400:53:48,200 --> 00:53:49,560I'm going to read that first.81500:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,880You always look at me with that eye.81600:53:52,880 --> 00:53:53,880Like you know something I don't.81700:53:53,880 --> 00:53:54,880I do.81800:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,400Hope.81900:53:57,400 --> 00:54:03,800Which whispered from Pandora's Box only after all the other plagues and sorrows had escaped82000:54:03,800 --> 00:54:07,400is the best and last of all things.82100:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,000I feel like that's very fitting for this.82200:54:10,000 --> 00:54:11,000Wow.82300:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,160There was a lot of hurt on a lot of sides.82400:54:15,160 --> 00:54:16,160Yeah.82500:54:16,160 --> 00:54:17,160Okay.82600:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,160Listen to this.82700:54:18,160 --> 00:54:25,120Reversed interpretation says trust life and its processes and yourself.82800:54:25,120 --> 00:54:31,080The reversed star can mean you're following your path in a private way instead of shining82900:54:31,080 --> 00:54:34,760your light into the outer world.83000:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,840The blessings you receive may be spiritual rather than material.83100:54:39,840 --> 00:54:46,680Perhaps you feel devitalized, uninspired or low on self esteem at this time."83200:54:46,680 --> 00:54:47,680Aww.83300:54:47,680 --> 00:54:54,000"After you attune yourself to what your soul needs, you'll feel more energized and inharmony83400:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,040with who you truly are.83500:54:56,040 --> 00:55:03,240In a reading about money, you may feel disappointed because a hoped for payment or payoff gets delayed.83600:55:03,240 --> 00:55:07,920Even though you're trying hard, your efforts don't bear much fruit.83700:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,160The time may not be right yet.83800:55:10,160 --> 00:55:11,160Don't give up."83900:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,480Do you know how long this...84000:55:14,480 --> 00:55:15,480The lawsuit?84100:55:15,480 --> 00:55:16,480Yes.84200:55:16,480 --> 00:55:17,480Thank you.84300:55:17,480 --> 00:55:18,480Yes.84400:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,480I don't...84500:55:20,480 --> 00:55:26,200The details on the timeline of the lawsuit aren't in front of mine for me, so I'd have to check.84600:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,240I just hope that that doesn't take as long.84700:55:29,240 --> 00:55:30,840You can imagine.84800:55:30,840 --> 00:55:37,080Yeah, just, you know, a casual 20 years.84900:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,880If the reading is about your job, you may be hiding your light under a bushel.85000:55:42,880 --> 00:55:51,520You don't realize your true abilities and thus aren't getting ahead as quickly as you could.85100:55:51,520 --> 00:55:59,920The star reversed can also represent disillusionment, disenchantment, or lack of inspiration.85200:55:59,920 --> 00:56:00,920Oh, okay.85300:56:00,920 --> 00:56:01,920Yeah.85400:56:01,920 --> 00:56:02,920Oh, boy.85500:56:02,920 --> 00:56:09,360In a reading about love, this card can mean your expectations are unrealistic.85600:56:09,360 --> 00:56:15,520Your searching for perfection, which can never be attained, or it can indicate you aren't85700:56:15,520 --> 00:56:18,600seeing your partner or your relationship clearly.85800:56:18,600 --> 00:56:25,200Hmm, like maybe you actually didn't have one with Arpana and that really pissed you off.85900:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,200Oh, I don't know.86000:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,440I don't like it either, but here we are.86100:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,080There's one more extra excerpts.86200:56:33,080 --> 00:56:34,080Okay.86300:56:34,080 --> 00:56:37,760I saved it for the aim.86400:56:37,760 --> 00:56:41,960One is the faith that leads to achievement.86500:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,000Nothing can be done without hope and confidence.86600:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,200Yeah.86700:56:48,200 --> 00:56:52,040I don't have a lot of confidence, but I do have some hope.86800:56:52,040 --> 00:56:53,040Some hope.86900:56:53,040 --> 00:56:54,040Yeah.87000:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,040Yeah.87100:56:55,040 --> 00:56:56,040We have to do otherwise.87200:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,640What the fuck is the point?87300:56:57,640 --> 00:56:58,640What is there?87400:56:58,640 --> 00:56:59,640Yeah.87500:56:59,640 --> 00:57:00,640Wow.87600:57:00,640 --> 00:57:06,560Well, I just, I was thinking heavy about Arpana, obviously, when I was shuffling and I87700:57:06,560 --> 00:57:10,400just feel like she is just a star, you know?87800:57:10,400 --> 00:57:17,880Cassie, did you notice on the altar, the incense burner I have is decorated in stars?87900:57:17,880 --> 00:57:18,880Yeah.88000:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,120I put out these citrine stars.88100:57:22,120 --> 00:57:23,720That's right.88200:57:23,720 --> 00:57:31,760And I pointed out to you when we were at Curiosity's earlier, a really cool, kind of like88300:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,000a rot iron-looking star.88400:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,760There's been everywhere.88500:57:36,760 --> 00:57:37,760Everywhere.88600:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,040That's really interesting.88700:57:39,040 --> 00:57:40,040She was with us.88800:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,480Maybe she knew we were going to talk about her today.88900:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,960You want to hear something even wilder?89000:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,360Maybe.89100:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,720I watched the rest of practical magic last night.89200:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,040Chris had never seen it.89300:57:53,040 --> 00:57:54,040And wait.89400:57:54,040 --> 00:57:55,040What?89500:57:55,040 --> 00:57:56,040I know.89600:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,040I know.89700:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,720We're not getting married unless you watch this.89800:57:58,720 --> 00:57:59,720So good.89900:57:59,720 --> 00:58:00,720Buckle up.90000:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,720Yeah.90100:58:01,720 --> 00:58:02,720Yeah.90200:58:02,720 --> 00:58:08,160I think if you didn't see it as a child, it probably doesn't hold the same charm.90300:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,760So, but he's a lovely man.90400:58:10,760 --> 00:58:11,760So he watched it.90500:58:11,760 --> 00:58:12,760Good play.90600:58:12,760 --> 00:58:13,760Good play.90700:58:13,760 --> 00:58:14,760Good play.90800:58:14,760 --> 00:58:15,760Yeah.90900:58:15,760 --> 00:58:16,760Buckle.91000:58:16,760 --> 00:58:24,840Do you remember what she says when she does her spell as a little girl, all of the different91100:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,360requirements for the man that she would fall in love with?91200:58:28,360 --> 00:58:30,440The star is his favorite shape.91300:58:30,440 --> 00:58:31,440Uh-huh.91400:58:31,440 --> 00:58:33,440And then we'll see what we can do.91500:58:33,440 --> 00:58:34,440Yeah.91600:58:34,440 --> 00:58:35,440We'll see what we can do.91700:58:35,440 --> 00:58:36,440We'll see what we can do.91800:58:36,440 --> 00:58:37,440We'll see what we can do.91900:58:37,440 --> 00:58:38,440We'll see what we can do.92000:58:38,440 --> 00:58:39,440We'll see what we can do.92100:58:39,440 --> 00:58:40,440We'll see what we can do.92200:58:40,440 --> 00:58:41,440We'll see what we can do.92300:58:41,440 --> 00:58:42,440We'll see what we can do.92400:58:42,440 --> 00:58:43,440We'll see what we can do.92500:58:43,440 --> 00:58:44,440We'll see what we can do.92600:58:44,440 --> 00:58:45,440We'll see what we can do.92700:58:45,440 --> 00:58:46,440We'll see what we can do.92800:58:46,440 --> 00:58:47,440We'll see what we can do.92900:58:47,440 --> 00:58:48,440We'll see what we can do.93000:58:48,440 --> 00:58:49,440We'll see what we can do.93100:58:49,440 --> 00:58:50,440We'll see what we can do.93200:58:50,440 --> 00:58:51,440We'll see what we can do.93300:58:51,440 --> 00:58:52,440We'll see what we can do.93400:58:52,440 --> 00:58:53,440We'll see what we can do.93500:58:53,440 --> 00:58:54,440We'll see what we can do.93600:58:54,440 --> 00:59:01,440We'll see what we can do.93700:59:01,440 --> 00:59:02,440We'll see what we can do.93800:59:02,440 --> 00:59:03,440We'll see what we can do.93900:59:03,440 --> 00:59:04,440We'll see what we can do.94000:59:04,440 --> 00:59:05,440We'll see what we can do.94100:59:05,440 --> 00:59:06,440We'll see what we can do.94200:59:06,440 --> 00:59:07,440We'll see what we can do.94300:59:07,440 --> 00:59:08,440We'll see what we can do.94400:59:08,440 --> 00:59:09,440We'll see what we can do.94500:59:09,440 --> 00:59:10,440We'll see what we can do.94600:59:10,440 --> 00:59:11,440We'll see what we can do.94700:59:11,440 --> 00:59:12,440We'll see what we can do.94800:59:12,440 --> 00:59:13,440We'll see what we can do.94900:59:13,440 --> 00:59:14,440We'll see what we can do.95000:59:14,440 --> 00:59:15,440We'll see what we can do.95100:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,440We'll see what we can do.95200:59:16,440 --> 00:59:17,440We'll see what we can do.95300:59:17,440 --> 00:59:18,440We'll see what we can do.95400:59:18,440 --> 00:59:19,440We'll see what we can do.95500:59:19,440 --> 00:59:20,440We'll see what we can do.95600:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,440We'll see what we can do.95700:59:21,440 --> 00:59:22,440We'll see what we can do.95800:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,440We'll see what we can do.95900:59:24,440 --> 00:59:25,440We'll see what we can do.96000:59:25,440 --> 00:59:26,440We'll see what we can do.96100:59:26,440 --> 00:59:27,440We'll see what we can do.96200:59:27,440 --> 00:59:28,440We'll see what we can do.96300:59:28,440 --> 00:59:29,440We'll see what we can do.96400:59:29,440 --> 00:59:30,440We'll see what we can do.96500:59:30,440 --> 00:59:31,440We'll see what we can do.96600:59:31,440 --> 00:59:32,440We'll see what we can do.96700:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,440We'll see what we can do.96800:59:33,440 --> 00:59:34,440We'll see what we can do.96900:59:34,440 --> 00:59:35,440We'll see what we can do.97000:59:35,440 --> 00:59:36,440We'll see what we can do.97100:59:36,440 --> 00:59:37,440We'll see what we can do.97200:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,440We'll see what we can do.97300:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,440We'll see what we can do.97400:59:39,440 --> 00:59:40,440We'll see what we can do.97500:59:40,440 --> 00:59:41,440We'll see what we can do.97600:59:41,440 --> 00:59:42,440We'll see what we can do.97700:59:42,440 --> 00:59:43,440We'll see what we can do.97800:59:43,440 --> 00:59:44,440We'll see what we can do.97900:59:44,440 --> 00:59:45,440We'll see what we can do.98000:59:45,440 --> 00:59:46,440We'll see what we can do.98100:59:46,440 --> 00:59:47,440We'll see what we can do.98200:59:47,440 --> 00:59:48,440We'll see what we can do.98300:59:48,440 --> 00:59:49,440We'll see what we can do.98400:59:49,440 --> 00:59:50,440We'll see what we can do.98500:59:50,440 --> 00:59:51,440We'll see what we can do.98600:59:51,440 --> 00:59:52,440We'll see what we can do.98700:59:52,440 --> 00:59:53,440We'll see what we can do.98800:59:53,440 --> 00:59:54,440We'll see what we can do.98900:59:54,440 --> 00:59:55,440We'll see what we can do.99000:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,440We'll see what we can do.99100:59:56,440 --> 00:59:57,440We'll see what we can do.99200:59:57,440 --> 00:59:58,440We'll see what we can do.99300:59:58,440 --> 00:59:59,440We'll see what we can do.99400:59:59,440 --> 01:00:00,440We'll see what we can do.99501:00:00,440 --> 01:00:01,440We'll see what we can do.99601:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,440We'll see what we can do.99701:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,440We'll see what we can do.99801:00:03,440 --> 01:00:04,440We'll see what we can do.99901:00:04,440 --> 01:00:05,440We'll see what we can do.100001:00:05,440 --> 01:00:06,440We'll see what we can do.100101:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,440We'll see what we can do.100201:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,440If you listen to the show, you'll get it.100301:00:10,440 --> 01:00:11,440Yeah.100401:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,440You will totally understand.100501:00:13,440 --> 01:00:20,440If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest ways to support are absolutely free.100601:00:20,440 --> 01:00:25,440Tell everyone in anyone you come into contact with about us unless they're like a bad person.100701:00:25,440 --> 01:00:26,440Yeah.100801:00:26,440 --> 01:00:27,440Then maybe don't.100901:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,440We don't necessarily need listeners that badly, I guess.101001:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,440Because they probably wouldn't leave us a five star review like you would on any platform.101101:00:35,440 --> 01:00:36,440Yeah.101201:00:36,440 --> 01:00:37,440Yeah.101301:00:37,440 --> 01:00:39,440I mean, that's really solid reasoning, I feel.101401:00:39,440 --> 01:00:47,440If you have any true crime paranormal or whichy stories to submit for our listener appreciation episodes,101501:00:47,440 --> 01:00:56,440also known as creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com101601:00:56,440 --> 01:01:02,440or you can use our handy dandy Google contact link in the episode description.101701:01:02,440 --> 01:01:09,440Or if you want to go to our website, there's ways to do all of the things from there as well.101801:01:09,440 --> 01:01:16,440You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you choose to send in a story and they don't even have to be from the Pacific Northwest.101901:01:16,440 --> 01:01:17,440Yeah.102001:01:17,440 --> 01:01:19,440It's a good excuse to take a little vacation.102101:01:19,440 --> 01:01:20,440Yeah.102201:01:20,440 --> 01:01:22,440We're just touring around the world, you know?102301:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,440Yeah.102401:01:23,440 --> 01:01:28,440As opposed to what is typically a very dark and dreary staycation.102501:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,440Yeah.102601:01:29,440 --> 01:01:41,440Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, the beautiful altar setups and a lot of backstage shenanigans.102701:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,440We make a lot of fun, fun stuff.102801:01:44,440 --> 01:01:45,440Yeah, we do.102901:01:45,440 --> 01:01:54,440You can find our website pnwhauntsandhomicides.com and link tree in the description of this episode to check out all of this super creepy fun we have to offer.103001:01:54,440 --> 01:01:55,440All of it, man.103101:01:55,440 --> 01:01:56,440Yeah.103201:01:56,440 --> 01:01:58,440Have a creepy ass Halloween.103301:01:58,440 --> 01:01:59,440Halloween.103401:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,440That will still see you next Tuesday.103501:02:01,440 --> 01:02:07,440We're not going to change into different people, especially mermaids because I don't like the water that much.103601:02:07,440 --> 01:02:08,440I love the water.103701:02:08,440 --> 01:02:10,440Oh, you can become a mermaid.103801:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,440Okay.103901:02:11,440 --> 01:02:12,440Yeah.104001:02:12,440 --> 01:02:13,440You can.104101:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,440Well, I especially won't be because I'm a dead mermaid and I don't want to be that for sure.104201:02:17,440 --> 01:02:18,440Yeah.104301:02:18,440 --> 01:02:26,440In keeping with our distinct and very oftentimes differing personalities, she's a dead mermaid.104401:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,440And I'm like, yay, pretty mermaid.104501:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,440It's going to be such a funny picture we're about to take.104601:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,440I have some mermaid purse.104701:02:34,440 --> 01:02:35,440Okay, mom.104801:02:35,440 --> 01:02:36,440I'm not out.104901:02:36,440 --> 01:02:37,440Bye.105001:02:37,440 --> 01:02:38,440Bye.105101:02:38,440 --> 01:02:39,440Happy Halloween.105201:02:39,440 --> 01:02:40,440Happy Halloween.105301:02:40,440 --> 01:02:41,440Me, me.105401:02:41,440 --> 01:03:10,440[Music]105501:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,440I am a dead mermaid.105601:03:13,440 --> 01:03:14,440[Laughs]105701:03:14,440 --> 01:03:15,440[Laughs]105801:03:15,440 --> 01:03:16,440[Laughs]105901:03:16,440 --> 01:03:17,440[Laughs]106001:03:17,440 --> 01:03:23,440[MUSIC]