Nov. 13, 2025

The Disappearance of Susan Cox Powell – Vanishing Point

The Disappearance of Susan Cox Powell – Vanishing Point
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When 28-year-old Susan Cox Powell vanished from her West Valley City, Utah, home in December 2009, her purse, phone, and keys suspiciously remained—and her husband’s story didn’t add up. In part 1 we trace the chilling trail of red flags Susan left behind: a secret will, haunting journal entries, and an eerie home video “in case something happens.” From the Powells’ tangled family history in Puyallup, Washington, to the night of the so-called midnight “camping trip,” we uncover the control, manipulation, and obsession that built a pressure cooker inside their Utah home. Through interviews, court records, and Susan’s own words, we explore how a young mother’s intuition became her last line of defense—and how the search for truth stretched across the Pacific Northwest.

If you or someone you know feels unsafe in a relationship, reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or visit thehotline.org. Support is available 24/7 via phone, chat, or by texting START to 88788. For listeners in the Pacific Northwest, local help is also available through the Washington State Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-562-6025 or Oregon’s SafeLine at 1-888-235-5333.

Visit our website! Find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, Patreon, & more! If you have any true crime, paranormal, or witchy stories you'd like to share with us & possibly have them read (out loud) on an episode, email us atpnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com or use this link. There are so many ways that you can support the show: BuyMeACoffee, Spreaker, or by leaving a rating & review on Apple Podcasts.
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He said he'd taken the boys to Simpson Springs campground.

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When police checked, there were no tracks, no ashes, no

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proof anyone had been there. Even more unsettling were the

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words of little Charlie Powell, just four years old.

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At the time.

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When detectives asked about the family's strange midnight camping trip

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into Utah's frozen desert. He told them that his mother

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had gone with them that Sunday, but for some reason

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she stayed behind at the campsite and didn't come home.

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Hi Cassie, Hi Caitlin, Hi creepy people. Hello, This is

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PNW Hansen Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the

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paranormal and all things spooky in the Pacific Northwest.

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Or the p and W. If you're nasty.

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And we are, it's well established lore. I think definitely

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war at this point. Nasty and nasty lore. Oh my goodness.

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We also do a taro reading at the end of

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every episode for a little bit of deeper insight into

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our topic. The lore about the nasty is so well

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established now our friends are going on other podcasts and

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spreading the good word the gospel as.

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A nasty word.

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Wait what yeah, yeah, Shay and Jody from Rainy Day

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Rabbit Holes were just on Live Laugh Larseny and we

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found out that we are their gateway gals as it were.

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They heard about Live Laugh Larseny from a promo swap

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that we did with them, and that's how they kind

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of connected with them.

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So I know, I love it.

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I love it when our friends become friends.

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I love it when our nasty friends become nasty without

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us and do nasty things all over the place. I

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don't know if I said that right, but you guys

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get it. You get it. Well, should we do our

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little announcement we have, just like a tiny announcement, do it?

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We used to do a release on Tuesdays. You remember

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that thing we used to say at the end, see

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you next Tuesday. Yeah, that I conveniently cut out of

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the last episode because spoiler alert, we probably won't be

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seeing you Tuesdays anymore. Don't cry, It's okay. Well, we'll

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see you on the next tea day, which is Thursday.

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We had to keep the tea theme so we can

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still call you cunts, you know, you know, under the

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table at the end of every episode. But it'll just

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be see you next Thursday. Now, instead of Tuesday.

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With shaking things.

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Yeah, if you could tell, we were already kind of shaky.

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Shake a our schedules are getting shooken up, shake and

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shaken very hard.

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Shake us.

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We're just suggesting, But you guys are fine. Do you

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guys have any other wild announcements, like what's going on

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in the world? Does any tell me what's going on

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on there? God guys?

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No, I think probably.

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I don't know.

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No, I don't need to hear anything about what's going

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on out there in the world, although I will say

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when we were eating breakfast this morning, Chris and I

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watched an episode of South Park, and my god was

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one of the ones. Uh huh that was quite enjoyable.

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Which one did you watch? La boo boo? Uh?

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No? I, yeah, no, Chris just turned it on and

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he I don't know he. I think he probably just

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picked a random episode. Oh, should we get into it?

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Yeah? I think the people are some are some ready.

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I think the people are ready for some true crime.

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That is what I was trying to say, eloquent. They're

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sick of my uh man made of mouths stories and

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they're ready for some real, true, down and dirty business.

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Yeah.

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Uh hopefully you are correct. I'm ready got my heta

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blanket wrapped around me. The blinds are closed.

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Well, prepare for the chills regardless. Susan Marie Cox was

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born on October sixteenth, nineteen eighty one, in Alamagordo, New Mexico.

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She was raised in pew Yallop, Washington, where she graduated

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from Rogers High School. Before training to become a cosmetologist.

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She was active in the Church of Jesus Christ of

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Latter day Saints, or the LDS Church. In fact, that's

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how she would eventually meet her husband. She met Joshua

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or josh James Powell, a student at the University of

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Washington who was also an active member of the LDS

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Church in late two thousand. He was confident, a t

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and at least at first, charming in the way that

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draws you in before the warning bells register.

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The LDS thing wasn't wasn't a warning bell?

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Well, she was LDS as well, I know, I know, yeah, yeah,

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I mean, clearly we have some thoughts and feelings around that,

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but we're gonna we're gonna have to reserve judgment.

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Because there's just no judgment. Yeah.

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No, I mean also a little bit.

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But no judgment. Directly after I judge, it was like,

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like no offense, Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Josh also grew up in Pyolup, Washington, the son of

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Stephen Powell and Tarika Powell, but his family dynamics were

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the stuff of whispered cautionary tales. The Powells, Josh's parents

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had an extremely turbulent marriage that ended in divorce in

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the early nineties. His father, Stephen Powell, was a controlling,

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volatile man whose marriage to Tika she went by Terry,

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ended in acrimony. When Susan and Josh first married, they

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moved into Steve Powell's South Hill home. For Susan it

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meant free rent and family nearby. For Steve, it became

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an opportunity for obsession. He secretly filmed her, collected photos

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of her, even wrote songs about her. Susan, uncomfortable and alarmed,

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pushed for distance.

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I have a question. Yeah, who is this guy again?

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That's the father in law.

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The father in law. Okay, okay, okay, okay.

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It's just as creepy as it sounds.

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Yeah, okay, yeah, I know.

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I think your brain doesn't want to accept it. You're

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like wait, who are.

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We talking about? Just like a family friend.

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But yeah, either way, like secretly filming and collecting photos

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of someone.

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Is that is disgusting?

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But like when is your father in law? I feel

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like that it takes it kind of to a different

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layer that I don't care for.

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Okay, yep.

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The couple relocated to Utah in two thousand and four,

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settling in West Valley City. There, they purchased a home

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at West Sarah Circle. Susan shouldered much of their household

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financial burden, working full time as an investment broker at

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Wells Fargo Investments, while Josh cycled through jobs and risky

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real estate ventures.

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Ooh yeah.

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Close friends and co workers that Susan confided in said

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she seemed trapped between her faith's emphasis on family unity

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and her growing fear of Josh's temper.

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It will definitely trap you when their your church is

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telling you, right, yeah, like obey and stay with your

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husband no matter what, like you marry and you're together forever.

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Susan's journal entries would later reveal her growing discomfort with

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Josh's controlling, manipulative, and increasingly detached behavior, as well as

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the family strained finances.

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Man fucking Josh is Am I Right.

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I just feel like, also, it's really rough because in

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this kind of conservative religious, type of traditional family values

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sort of a situation, the woman wouldn't historically have to

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be the one that's like the primary provider. She shouldn't

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have to be dealing with the finances. Now. I mean

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that's obviously, that's like a very you know, it's a

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very specific type of you know, lifestyle choice. And if

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everybody's on board with that, that's one thing. But to

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be forced into sort of this you know, like I'm

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inser to the man, but she's the one who's like

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bringing home the bacon. Yeah, And I just feel like, okay,

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so you're following through on all of the parts that

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kind of seem satisfying to like the life from a

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man's perspective, but you're not really delivering on anything that

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would be beneficial to the woman in this case, you

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know what I mean?

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Right, Like she could just leave and like what then

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what would you do? Right where normally it's like they're

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kind of stuck because the man is providing for them, Like, yeah,

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I guess he's just really he has faith and that

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faith that she wants to stay in the family. Yeah.

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I think initially it's like the it's the religious faith,

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and it's you know, the teachings of like you said,

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it's like, well, you guys are married, you know, you

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stay together regardless. That is like sort of the initial

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thing that's keeping her there. And then eventually, you know,

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once you have kids. That's the other way that you know,

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down the line that they trap you. In two thousand

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and five, the couple had the first of their two sons, Charlie,

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born January nineteenth, two thousand and.

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Five, Charlie Charle.

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Two years later, on January second, two thousand and seven,

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another son was born, Brayden. Reportedly, later that same year,

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April two thousand and seven, Josh declared bankruptcy with debts

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exceeding two hundred thousand dollars.

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I want that much debt, soone, no one will give

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me that much money. You do not want that much debt,

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hey man, I want to die with a negative number.

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I'm just saying I want to take, not leave behind.

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By two thousand and six, Susan's journals and notes revealed

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that she was walking on eggshells as she documented the

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mounting tension in her marriage and Josh's violent temper. She

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managed the bills, cared for their sons, Charlie and Brayden,

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and tried to preserve a picture of domestic calm. Increasingly,

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her entries began to mention Josh's temper, his spending habits,

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and how he isolated her from her family. In two

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thousand and eight, she wrote, if I die, it may

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not be an accident, even if it looks like one.

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Jesus Fuck, have we heard this before? Do I just

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know this story?

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You might know the story, but it's not the first

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time we've heard a woman say, okay if I don't.

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Because I feel like we've said that on this podcast before.

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I'm almost certain that we have. Because there are so

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many instances of intimate partner violence against you know, women,

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and I feel like in this case, you know, I

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don't know how much physical abuse that there may or

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may not have been in their relationship. It doesn't seem

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like there's a real documented history of that. This seems

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more like there's you know, financial abuse, and then there's

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a lot of coercive control.

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I can definitely understand though, like, even though someone's not

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physically abusive towards you they can still make you feel

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like your life is threatened.

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Absolutely, and you have children with this man, so you're

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concerned about their safety and their well being obviously. She

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also recorded a video on July twenty ninth, two thousand

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and eight, at twelve thirty three pm, documenting her home,

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property damage and possessions in case something happens.

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She had a lot of foresight. It's kind of creepy,

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it is. I mean, I don't know what's going to

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happen to her, but I don't I don't feel like

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it's going to it's leading anywhere, right.

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Yeah. It definitely leaves you with a sense of dread,

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and I would say, knowing what I know, that is justified.

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In the footage, she referenced her husband's anger issues and

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noted that she had placed a will in other documents

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in a safe deposit box, explicitly stating that Josh should

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not access it. So what does that say when you're

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creating like a handwritten will and your husband is the

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one person that you're like, ah, he shouldn't be able

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to have access to this, But.

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Should I be the one person that you trust with everything? Right? Exactly?

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While the content of that video was certainly disturbing increasingly so,

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in hindsight, it was hardly surprising. She was doing well professionally,

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having earned securities licenses, and Susan's income was the primary

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financial support for the family. Colleagues described her as detail

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oriented and ambitious, traits cont with why she might take

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the time, even during a lunch break or half day,

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to document her home and assets for legal or financial reasons.

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Josh Powell was self employed at that time, running a

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00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:18.200
small startup called and I shit you not Josh Powell

229
00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:24.559
Web Design. I mean it's straightforward, It's yeah, it's not creative,

230
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.039
So he was running that business out of their home.

231
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.960
He had a background in it web development, and some

232
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:37.320
real estate and marketing ventures, but none were very stable.

233
00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:40.879
By two thousand and eight, he was reportedly struggling to

234
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.679
maintain a steady income. After their April two thousand and

235
00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.960
seven bankruptcy filing you know the you know that time,

236
00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:52.080
they casually listed about two hundred thousand dollars in debt

237
00:14:53.039 --> 00:14:56.600
seen through that lens. Josh was home most of the time,

238
00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.559
so Susan may have used a short window while he

239
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.279
was out of the house to make a private recording

240
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:06.279
as a financial professional. She may have framed the video

241
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:13.200
in practical, almost procedural terms, consistent with her personality and training,

242
00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:17.320
but later, when investigators viewed it in context, along with

243
00:15:17.360 --> 00:15:21.279
her handwritten will and the journal entries, it clearly carried

244
00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:25.200
a foreboding tone. She feared for her safety and wanted

245
00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:26.440
a record preserved.

246
00:15:27.080 --> 00:15:28.639
I think we all should just do this on a

247
00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:30.080
daily basis.

248
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:36.559
Right, Just go around like record everything that always be recorded. Yeah,

249
00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:41.200
we're always saying that. Susan's salary kept the lights on,

250
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:47.320
but friends noticed she was quieter at church, thinner, less certain.

251
00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:51.399
She'd once been the one bringing cast roles and laughter.

252
00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:57.279
Now she lingered after Relief Society meetings, talking about patience

253
00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:02.399
in trials. Susan's comfort extended to her father in law,

254
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:06.279
Steve Powell, who openly admitted to being obsessed with her.

255
00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:11.480
His behavior, including secretly filming and stealing her personal items,

256
00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:16.279
was later used as evidence in his criminal conviction for voyeurism.

257
00:16:16.960 --> 00:16:20.399
Don't worry, we'll get to that. Why why is there

258
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:27.720
so much happening? There's a lot happening, and I don't

259
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:32.720
know how anybody is holding themselves together, holding down a job,

260
00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:39.360
like an important job in the financial sector while they

261
00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:43.759
have this much going on in their personal life. On

262
00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:47.799
December sixth, two thousand and nine, Susan attended church with

263
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.080
her two sons. Later that day, the family ate a

264
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:54.919
picnic dinner with a neighbor in attendance who left their

265
00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:59.879
home afterwards at around five PM, marking the last time

266
00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:05.960
that Susan was seen alive before she disappeared. This individual

267
00:17:06.039 --> 00:17:09.079
said that Josh had prepared the meal and Susan was

268
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:13.880
tired after eating. Josh would state that after the meal,

269
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.519
he took their young sons sledding at around five thirty,

270
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.039
arriving home by about eight o'clock. The series of events

271
00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:27.920
he claims for the remainder of that evening are truly bizarre.

272
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:32.079
According to Josh, he decided to take the boys on

273
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.720
a spontaneous late night camping trip into Utah's West Desert

274
00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:43.759
around midnight. Susan, he claimed, stayed home asleep. Multiple neighbors

275
00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:46.839
reported hearing the car alarm of the Powell's vehicle at

276
00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:51.559
approximately eleven forty five pm, So, according to statements made

277
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.680
by Josh, he and the boys left between midnight and

278
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:58.240
twelve thirty am to camp out roughly two hours away

279
00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:03.799
in to Willa County when temperatures were below freezing and

280
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:06.599
there was a snowstorm predicted in the forecast.

281
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.480
That seems outrageous.

282
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:15.279
Yeah, and it actually he told police he wanted to

283
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:20.160
try out his new generator, which I guess you have

284
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.160
to drive your two toddlers out into the middle of

285
00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:28.200
the Utah desert in a snowstorm after midnight to test

286
00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:28.920
a generator?

287
00:18:29.079 --> 00:18:33.759
Right, who wants to wake up? Okay? In who's what parents?

288
00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:37.440
Right fucking mind? Are they gonna wake up toddlers in

289
00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:39.920
the middle of the night, Like.

290
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.160
I don't know, maybe he alone is maybe he was

291
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.519
just you know, maybe he was just carrying sleeping toddlers

292
00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:52.839
to the car. Listen, all of this is so clearly ridiculous.

293
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:56.119
That's kind of the point, is, like, I'd have to

294
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:59.480
believe the first part of what you said for any

295
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.000
of this excessive pieces to make any sense. And the

296
00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.799
problem is that I don't believe a goddamn thing. But

297
00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:12.359
let's pretend that we did. I'm not sure that seems

298
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:14.799
smart with a two and four year old in tow.

299
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.920
The investigators thought it seemed ill advised and frankly pretty suspicious.

300
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:21.480
Mm hmm.

301
00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:29.359
Because it was in fact not their first rodeo. Officers

302
00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.200
listening to the explanation later called it the kind of

303
00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.599
lie that announces itself.

304
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:37.839
That is exactly right.

305
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.200
It's so accurate, but it just gives me the chills

306
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:45.319
because it's like, I can't even imagine from their perspective

307
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:51.359
just hearing this string of such obvious lies and being like, Okay, dude,

308
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:52.599
that's the story.

309
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.799
You're going with that, or you're like having a really

310
00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.400
manic episode, like was bipolar.

311
00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:05.680
Right, I mean, that's one other potential explanation. He said

312
00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:10.440
he'd taken the boys to Simpson Springs campground. When police checked,

313
00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:14.359
there were no tracks, no ashes, no proof anyone had

314
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:19.480
been there. Even more unsettling were the words of little

315
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:23.599
Charlie Powell, just four years old at the time. When

316
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.839
detectives asked about the family strange midnight camping trip into

317
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:31.640
Utah's frozen desert. He told them that his mother had

318
00:20:31.720 --> 00:20:35.240
gone with them that Sunday, but for some reason, she

319
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:41.200
stayed behind at the campsite and didn't come home. I

320
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:45.559
actually don't think I have this next part in my notes,

321
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:49.720
and I wasn't sure that I was going to include it.

322
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:54.000
It actually is more relevant to kind of the timeline

323
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:59.119
for part two later, but the grandparents Susan's parents later

324
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.519
questioned one of the little boys about a drawing that

325
00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:05.519
they did. It was like a drawing of the family,

326
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:13.559
and he explained, that's us driving to go camping, and

327
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:14.880
that's Mommy in the trunk.

328
00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.599
Oh my god, what the fuck.

329
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:24.839
They were so little when this first happened, and I think,

330
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.480
you know, as as time went on, they had more

331
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:34.599
vocabulary and emotional awareness, and people like the other trusted

332
00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:37.559
adults in their life were able to talk to them

333
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.319
and kind of help them to process what they might

334
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:42.599
have seen or heard.

335
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:44.000
Wow.

336
00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.440
According to a search warrant affidavit filed the day after

337
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:53.640
Susan was reported missing, Charlie repeated the same heartbreaking version

338
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.640
of events a week later, Mommy stayed there. So the

339
00:21:58.720 --> 00:22:00.920
thing is is that a child that young, it can

340
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.000
be tough to know. They don't always understand the impact

341
00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:09.200
of their words or you know, their retelling of events.

342
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.400
It can be fragile, it can be you know, sometimes skewed.

343
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:17.559
But for him to say the exact same thing again later,

344
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.799
it's pretty telling. I think the boy's daycare provider became

345
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.400
concerned when Susan didn't show up with them the following morning.

346
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:33.400
Josh's sister, Jennifer Graves, being the family's emergency contact, was contacted,

347
00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:36.279
raising alarm bells for her as well as Josh's mother.

348
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.400
She went to the couple's house on Sarah Circle in

349
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.000
West Valley City and kept knocking on the lock door

350
00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.440
of the house. Worried about the well being of her brother,

351
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:52.079
his wife, and their kids, she informed the police. When

352
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.000
the police arrived at the residence, they asked her if

353
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.200
they should break in through a window, and she gave

354
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.880
them the green light. When police entered the family home,

355
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:07.559
they found Susan's purse, keys, wallet, and phone, all the

356
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:12.359
things no one leaves behind willingly, all indicators that she

357
00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:17.960
had not left voluntarily. Detective stated there was nothing missing

358
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.559
from the residence. There were no signs of forced entry,

359
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.680
and it didn't appear there was a robbery, home invasion, burglary,

360
00:23:25.880 --> 00:23:30.000
or signs of a struggle. Now that last one, I

361
00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:34.319
might say, is debatable as our story continues, but I digress.

362
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.200
Okay, it's going to be a little surprised.

363
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.200
Yeah, I mean, no signs of a struggle. I would

364
00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:46.039
say is perhaps yes and no. Josh returned home later

365
00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:52.039
that afternoon, claiming ignorance of Susan's whereabouts. Investigators found her

366
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:55.680
cell phone in his car with the SIM card removed,

367
00:23:56.519 --> 00:24:00.960
along with a generator, gas cans, and a shovel.

368
00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.519
Suspicious, like what other were you know?

369
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:09.880
Yeah, I mean circumstantial obviously, right, but.

370
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:14.079
The SIM card removed and you have gas cans and

371
00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:17.640
a shell, Like, come on, dude, where's the duct tape?

372
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:19.960
Where's like, right, know, where's the rest of the kill kit?

373
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.240
Because that's what it seems like.

374
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.640
Exactly one thousand percent. The search weren't served by the

375
00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.480
West Valley City Police. Revealed that Susan's blood was found

376
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.240
in the home. Not that unusual of finding in and

377
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.920
of itself for a resident of the home. If your

378
00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:41.920
blood's going to be anywhere your own house, that's predictable.

379
00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:44.440
My blood's all over this bitch, right.

380
00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:47.920
But some of the extraneous details surrounding the blood evidence

381
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:54.400
they observed and collected was perhaps concerning. Susan's blood was

382
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.000
found on the tiled living room floor that Josh had

383
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.319
reportedly cleaned on the night in question.

384
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:04.920
The night that he went camping. He was also cleaning

385
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.480
the floor. Cleaning the floor. Hm, that seems like a

386
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.599
lot of activity for the middle of the night.

387
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:13.720
Yeah, yeah, it does. Like the more you talk about it, right,

388
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.759
it sounds like, Okay, this dude seems like he's having

389
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:18.920
like a manic episode.

390
00:25:19.039 --> 00:25:19.240
Yeah.

391
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.799
I mean, and I had very much the same impression,

392
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:25.799
And I think maybe that's what he was trying, Like,

393
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.359
maybe he's thinking that's how he's going to pass it off.

394
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.400
Also found in the living room was DNA belonging to

395
00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:36.799
an unknown male. Blood was also found on the carpet

396
00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:41.440
and sofa in the home. Two fans were running reportedly

397
00:25:42.279 --> 00:25:45.799
pointed at the couch and or carpet when police searched

398
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:50.359
the home, So why would that be? A lot of

399
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.359
the statements made by law enforcement indicated that it was

400
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:57.119
like clearly there was a massive cleanup effort. They said

401
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:02.920
it reeked of cleansing or Detectives later said the home

402
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:07.319
looked frozen in the middle of an ordinary day. The

403
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:10.440
boy's coats still hung by the door, a half made

404
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:12.359
sandwich sat.

405
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:12.680
On a plate.

406
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:19.440
Wow, a missing comforter and sheet hinted that betting had

407
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:22.359
been used potentially for cleanup.

408
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.480
Right, Like, where would that be that would be either

409
00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:26.519
on the better in the laundry, right.

410
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:34.920
Luminol testing suggested additional wipe downs, nothing singularly damning, everything

411
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.960
collectively haunting, just.

412
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:42.119
The huge cleanup thing too, Like, I guess you have

413
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:43.200
two kids.

414
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.519
But right, but it doesn't sound like he was typically

415
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.799
you know, mister super dad.

416
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:52.160
This guy can't even keep a job. But he's like

417
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.359
cleaning and like going on a road trip.

418
00:26:55.480 --> 00:27:02.039
And yeah, he's making a pancake dinner, cleaning their floors,

419
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.599
taking the boys sledding, which I think, right, I think

420
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:09.720
that part. I think the sledding, I think that part

421
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.119
is true.

422
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:16.000
We had to be seen doing one thing at least, right, right, Yeah,

423
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:17.480
I don't know. I don't know.

424
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:21.640
The part about him making the pancake dinner almost makes

425
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:27.839
me think that perhaps he volunteered for that so that

426
00:27:27.880 --> 00:27:32.480
he could drug her. And there's no way for them

427
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:33.079
to prove that.

428
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.359
At this point. Spoiler.

429
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:42.119
But sometimes what you don't find can be even more intriguing.

430
00:27:43.559 --> 00:27:46.279
You know, what they didn't find, other than obvious signs

431
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:51.559
of forced entry, the supposed campsite Josh described showed no

432
00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.400
evidence of recent activity. I already kind of touched on them.

433
00:27:54.400 --> 00:27:56.680
Oh, right right. Yeah, you said, like no ashes, no

434
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:57.920
tiring track, nothing.

435
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:01.680
Yeah, almost like that story worry about an impromptu camping

436
00:28:01.720 --> 00:28:04.319
trip at midnight was bullshit or something weird.

437
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.599
Weird, he just cleaned up his ashes entire talks because

438
00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:10.319
he's like really cleaning right now.

439
00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.279
Yeah, he's in his mannic cleaning era. By December ninth,

440
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:19.519
the case was officially criminal. Then Salt Lake County District

441
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:24.400
Attorney Laura Miller authorized a criminal investigation into the disappearance

442
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:28.400
of Susan Powell. After a search warrant was served on

443
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:31.519
Josh Powell's vehicle. He went to the Salt Lake City

444
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.119
International Airport to rent a Ford Focus, which he put

445
00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:39.039
eight hundred and seven miles on before returning within thirty

446
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:44.599
six hours, refusing to explain why. According to court documents,

447
00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:50.640
huh yeah, So they get a search warrant for his car,

448
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:54.200
it ceased and he immediately goes to the airport, rents

449
00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:59.319
a rental car and puts over eight hundred miles on

450
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:01.000
it in six hours.

451
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:03.440
Like where did you go, dude? And why can't you

452
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:04.880
tell us just like where you went?

453
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.680
And he refused to tell anyone.

454
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:10.000
He is like, I'm out of stories. At this point,

455
00:29:10.039 --> 00:29:12.680
I can't even pretend to like make something up right.

456
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:18.799
Meanwhile, Susan's family held vigils and pleaded for information. Despite

457
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.640
all of the findings from the investigation thus far, prosecutors

458
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:28.759
faced a vexing challenge, no body, no confession, and somewhat

459
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:34.119
limited physical evidence linking Josh directly to foul play. Following

460
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.960
Susan Powell's disappearance on December sixth, two thousand and nine,

461
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:41.960
law enforcement in West Valley City quickly became immersed in

462
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:47.920
a case that blended domestic tension with national scrutiny. Forensic

463
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.279
searches of the Powell home uncovered traces of Susan's blood,

464
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:55.000
a handwritten will describing her fear of Josh, and life

465
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:59.279
insurance policies totaling more than one point five million dollars

466
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:04.960
aiming Josh as the primary beneficiary, including policies taken out

467
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.240
in June two thousand and nine for two hundred and

468
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:12.640
fifty thousand dollars apiece for each of the boys. Jesus

469
00:30:12.720 --> 00:30:18.240
Christ but six months before Susan went missing, Why.

470
00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.200
Would you need to even like take out insurance policies

471
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.319
on kids that are like that high like you're not

472
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:26.880
depending on the cubits for like income or something, you know.

473
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.759
One thousand percent. If you're taking out a policy and

474
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.920
there are a lot of instances where parents have some

475
00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:36.359
type of coverage. It is like a death benefit. It

476
00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:42.440
is something to cover like a meaningful burial, you know,

477
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:48.519
like something like in terms of a memorial, not replacing

478
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:50.240
their lifetime income.

479
00:30:50.720 --> 00:30:52.759
Yeah, what the fuck?

480
00:30:54.319 --> 00:30:58.200
Utah investigators launched one of the most extensive missing person

481
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:03.200
operations in state history, collaborating with the FBI and employing

482
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:08.440
ground penetrating radar, aerial searches, and cadaver dogs in both

483
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:12.880
Utah and rural Oregon. Friends describe the search effort as

484
00:31:12.920 --> 00:31:18.200
both frantic and surreal. Hundreds of volunteers combing the desert.

485
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:24.119
The volunteer command post occupied a church gymnasium off forty

486
00:31:24.119 --> 00:31:29.759
one hundred South, rows of tables grown under croc pots,

487
00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.920
walkie talkies, and printed maps of Tuila County.

488
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:38.920
I do have one thing to say before we move on. Yeah,

489
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:41.880
I know, like, obviously we have our thoughts and feelings

490
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:46.279
about organized religion and things like that, especially maybe the like,

491
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:50.839
well they're all kind of patriarch patriarchal right, but yeah, yeah,

492
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:55.640
especially those ones. But it is very nice to have

493
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.079
a community and like all these people getting together to

494
00:31:59.160 --> 00:31:59.920
help and support.

495
00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:03.319
Yeah, a thousand percent the way that the church community

496
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.680
banded together and they were all helping with the search,

497
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:09.920
and I'm going to talk about some other things that

498
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.920
they tried to do to help, and I think that

499
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:18.279
that's meaningful. And to me, that was like, you know,

500
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:23.839
we may not necessarily agree on every line by line thing,

501
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:28.880
but there's a lot of goodness in what the community,

502
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:35.200
you know, tried to do. Hundreds of volunteers, LDS, ward members,

503
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:40.720
co workers, complete strangers checked in daily. One woman said

504
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:44.720
she'd driven from Idaho because you don't just lose a

505
00:32:44.839 --> 00:32:49.400
mother in the snow. I'm just picturing like this, like,

506
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:53.599
you know, like middle aged lady driving over from Idaho

507
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.720
with her crossmut because it's like just as simple as that,

508
00:32:58.039 --> 00:33:01.960
Like you that is bullshit. He's in his bullshit era.

509
00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:02.799
Yeah.

510
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.839
Yeah, Well, and everybody, you know, like at a certain point,

511
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:10.720
like early on enough, I think there was a lot

512
00:33:10.759 --> 00:33:14.119
of hope that you know, she might be found alive somewhere.

513
00:33:16.799 --> 00:33:21.720
I don't think that lasted very long for really anyone,

514
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:27.039
like the community, for law enforcement, her family. I think

515
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:31.519
everybody knew pretty pretty quickly. They saw the writing.

516
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:34.720
On the wall. I mean in just like the weather conditions,

517
00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:36.920
like if she dight just get lost, like.

518
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:42.880
If well, and that's that was hardly the leading story

519
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:47.480
or theory, but we'll get to it. And of course

520
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.640
the press descended. Satellite trucks lined the cul de Sac,

521
00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:57.240
camera flashes lit the Powell driveway. At dusk, Susan's parents,

522
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:02.559
Chuck and Judy Cox, made tearful please on television publicly,

523
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:07.400
Josh played the worried husband. Privately, he lawyered up and

524
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:14.039
packed boxes. He drained Susan's retirement accounts, canceled her chiropractic appointments,

525
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.320
and told the boy's daycare provider that the boys would

526
00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:22.320
not likely return to the facility. Just days after Susan's disappearance,

527
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:29.239
Josh attended church, appearing oddly composed. Meanwhile, telltale cell tower

528
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:36.039
pings contradicted his timeline, and he literally refused polygraphs.

529
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:39.920
I wonder why, yuh huh.

530
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:44.119
I know that, like they're like standing in the criminal

531
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:46.280
justice system at this point, is.

532
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:49.840
Yeah, I feel like their purpose is just to see

533
00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:51.559
if you turn it down or not right.

534
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:54.480
Yeah, to rattle people, and then they can ask you

535
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:58.480
questions that let them know, Okay, we know you're lying,

536
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.039
but like when is the lie?

537
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.519
Yeah?

538
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.000
What what's the thing that spikes?

539
00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:08.440
You know? It's like a thing that could point just

540
00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:10.840
to give you, like a little more insight and information.

541
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:15.239
They should do tarot with them, you guys, I think

542
00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.760
we should start doing tarot with the light detector test.

543
00:35:17.880 --> 00:35:19.079
What do you think you know?

544
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:24.159
Couldn't hurt. His story seemed to shift almost daily. One day,

545
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.960
Susan had gone to work early, the next she'd stepped

546
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:31.199
out for a walk, or maybe she'd been depressed, you

547
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:36.599
know that old chestnut. Before long, Josh twisted the narrative

548
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.880
even further, implying that she'd run off with another man.

549
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.000
How fucking dare you, sir?

550
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:47.280
Like the fact that she was staying with someone abusive

551
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:51.119
because she had so much respect for marriage? Yeah, and

552
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:53.719
then yeah, oh that is so messed up? Okay.

553
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:59.719
Detectives documented roughly forty inconsistencies in his statements within the

554
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:06.960
first first week. While circumstantial evidence mounted, including witness testimony,

555
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:13.079
about Josh's controlling behaviors, investigators struggled to meet the legal

556
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:18.159
threshold for indictment. The case became Utah's version of a

557
00:36:18.199 --> 00:36:23.440
ghost story a woman who disappeared from inside her own home.

558
00:36:24.559 --> 00:36:29.440
Josh's sister, Jennifer Graves couldn't reconcile his calm detachment with

559
00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:33.039
the sister in law she knew. She volunteered to wear

560
00:36:33.079 --> 00:36:37.719
a wire for detectives meeting Josh at their father, Stephen

561
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:43.920
Powell's home on January twenty second, twenty ten. Oh shit,

562
00:36:44.920 --> 00:36:47.800
her goal coax out a confession.

563
00:36:48.679 --> 00:36:51.840
Dude, it gives me freaking chills when that happens, Like

564
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.599
that is so intense for somebody to do, Yeah, like

565
00:36:55.639 --> 00:36:59.920
a civilian to do. Yeah, Like I get like stress

566
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:02.280
out for them so hard, Like I don't know if

567
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:04.119
I could, I could ever do that.

568
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:09.639
It is arguably like one of the kind of scariest

569
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.679
aspects of this case in a way because Jennifer and

570
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:18.360
we're gonna get into it in part two because spoiler

571
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:23.199
there's two parts. Ah, she's gonna get a serious like

572
00:37:23.360 --> 00:37:29.400
hero bell. But it is really scary just knowing that,

573
00:37:29.559 --> 00:37:36.119
like as a family member she was so adamant about.

574
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:38.719
I almost can't even like put it into words because

575
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:41.639
who wants to believe that their loved one had something

576
00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:42.360
to do with this.

577
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:48.079
Seriously, but it just is so it's so obvious though

578
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:49.119
you see through it.

579
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:52.559
If you are someone you know feels trapped in a

580
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:57.320
relationship that doesn't feel safe, help is out there. You

581
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.000
can call or text the National Domestic Violence Hotline at

582
00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:08.360
one eight hundred seven safe, or visit the hotline dot org.

583
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:18.400
All right, so we are doing the tarot. I'm a

584
00:38:18.519 --> 00:38:25.280
spread out, spread them cats girl. Okay, where are we feeling?

585
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.920
Like? Right side ish?

586
00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:32.159
Right side ish?

587
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:32.639
Okay?

588
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.480
Oh, I think this is a new one for us,

589
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:38.400
especially with the PNW tarot.

590
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:39.840
Okay it is.

591
00:38:40.679 --> 00:38:44.440
It's whales. Oh, it's the chariot, but we got it

592
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:45.440
in the reverse.

593
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:49.679
Oh okay, the chariot is the cancer card.

594
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:51.840
That's right.

595
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.960
Oh my word, cancer is in the zodiac side, not

596
00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:02.280
the yeah, deadly disease that can fuck itself.

597
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:13.199
Okay. So these are gray whales progress, overcoming obstacles, will power, focus, ambition,

598
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:20.079
and determination, achieving goals with ease. The gray whale sighed

599
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:25.280
a low croak of pleasure and exhaustion as finally the

600
00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:29.239
current began to sweep her forward. The pod had been

601
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:33.360
swimming for days, often fighting against the pushing of swells

602
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:38.119
and pulling of tides. Now the ocean was working with them.

603
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:42.639
As the current shepherded her along. She had only to

604
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:47.280
make subtle shifts in direction, dipping a flipper or arking

605
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:51.440
her fluke as she navigated parallel to the distant coast.

606
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:55.280
She felt powerful with the strength of the ocean behind her.

607
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:59.920
When she eventually turned out of the current, it was

608
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:03.920
with less regret than she might have expected. She found

609
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:08.320
she carried the ocean's strength within her. How she wondered,

610
00:40:08.679 --> 00:40:12.400
could I be the current that carries my pod along?

611
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:16.719
Wow? Like I wasn't really seeing where that was going,

612
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:21.199
Like how this was fitting in really until you said that, Yeah,

613
00:40:21.320 --> 00:40:23.760
Like it just reminded me of her, like trying to

614
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.559
carry keep her family together and like be that person

615
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.119
to keep her pod safe, which is what she was

616
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:35.559
trying to do. Also too, when you said the chariot,

617
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:38.320
like I was thinking of the car like the trip.

618
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.440
So our keywords in the main Tarot book are controlling

619
00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:52.960
opposing forces, whoa willpower, resolving conflict, and travel, And as

620
00:40:53.000 --> 00:40:58.840
you so astutely pointed out, it says at a literal level,

621
00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:05.519
the chariot really to travel and transportation. The chariot reversed says,

622
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:09.079
changes are happening so fast you feel out of control.

623
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.079
It may seem like you're being pulled in two directions

624
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.719
at once, and the stress is INTENSEO.

625
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:19.840
That reminds me of like the two people who are

626
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:21.199
like kind of obsessed with her.

627
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.880
Yeah, you fear you won't be able to control the

628
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:30.840
multiple factors of a given situation. You're at a crossroads.

629
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:35.199
Choose your direction carefully. The more you can tune into

630
00:41:35.239 --> 00:41:39.400
your own inner guidance, the more control you can exert outwardly.

631
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:43.679
Most likely, the solution to the problem at hand is

632
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:47.480
to take the middle road between the conflicting issues.

633
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:51.159
Wow, I love I was just casually like, oh, these

634
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:54.679
two really hard things, just you know, go in between,

635
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:56.280
just split the difference.

636
00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:01.440
In a reading about money, you could suffer setbacks or

637
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:08.920
losses due to confusion, indecision, or inattentiveness. Lack of confidence

638
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.800
or inexperience could result in a poor choice. Or you

639
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:17.159
may rush into a financial matter unprepared and run headlong

640
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:21.440
into a wall. Huh would you consider bankruptcy a wall?

641
00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:28.239
Yeah? Definitely, that definitely fits uh financially Yeah, yeah, yeah.

642
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:32.320
If the reading is about your job. Competing factions may

643
00:42:32.400 --> 00:42:35.639
cause stress in your workplace and you feel incapable of

644
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:40.159
controlling the situation, or things may be happening so fast

645
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:42.840
your head is spinning and you can't get your bearings.

646
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.840
Sometimes this card says you're being pulled in two different

647
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:52.119
directions and can't decide which one to take. I feel

648
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:54.400
like there's a number of ways that could really apply.

649
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:58.480
To be honest, and they're talking about like in a

650
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:02.559
professional application. I feel like they talked about, like, you know,

651
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.400
he was an entrepreneur, he was inn it, he did

652
00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:08.679
some stuff in real estate, and I just feel like

653
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:13.480
it speaks to sort of the indecision, you know, in

654
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:18.719
a reading about love, conflicts or differences in opinion, lifestyle

655
00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:23.000
or values can cause tension in a relationship. You don't

656
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:26.079
say yeah, or a change has thrown you off guard

657
00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:29.679
and you don't know how to handle the situation. Sometimes

658
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:33.639
this card represents romantic involvement with two different people, or

659
00:43:33.719 --> 00:43:38.039
a conflict between two things you love. And I think

660
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.039
that's really interesting because I feel like there's the duality

661
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:46.800
of like, you know, there's like a spousal love, right,

662
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:50.360
and then there's like the love of your family, your children.

663
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:57.119
But there's also like the more complicated like interpretation of that,

664
00:43:57.280 --> 00:44:01.000
which is like there were two men that played such

665
00:44:01.000 --> 00:44:06.320
a prominent role in her life, and I think love

666
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.679
is sort of a misnomer in that case, because it's

667
00:44:09.719 --> 00:44:12.360
like this was obsession, this was control.

668
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:16.599
Yeah, but or like love of your religion.

669
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:20.320
I think there's a lot of ways that this kind

670
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:22.360
of you can interpret that.

671
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.000
I feel like the chariot, just the whole thing with

672
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:27.079
the car, like putting the kids in the car and

673
00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:29.599
then the kid saying like mommy was in the trunk,

674
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:32.320
and then us getting a seriously chariot, Like I feel

675
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.800
like that was just a sign like she probably was

676
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:35.880
in the trunk. Yeah.

677
00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:38.800
And I just feel like, thinking about part one and

678
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:42.559
part two, knowing what I know, especially for part one,

679
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:45.599
I'd be hard pressed to come up with any sort

680
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.920
of imagery that is stronger or more representative of Part

681
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:54.880
one what we've talked about so far than like a

682
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:56.119
chariot or a car.

683
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:57.400
Yeah. I don't know.

684
00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:59.079
I don't know how else to put it other than

685
00:44:59.239 --> 00:45:01.440
it just kind of feels like dead on and like

686
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:03.840
the imagery really makes sense in this one.

687
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:06.480
I was thinking about it too, like in the terms

688
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.320
of it being a cancer card and like the crab

689
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.519
and if you're thinking about the crab, like having that

690
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:15.960
strong she had to have this like strong outer sheltt

691
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:19.920
like everything was okay, but like things at home were

692
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.400
not okay. And she was even like you know, writing

693
00:45:22.440 --> 00:45:24.639
about it and stuff. So like obviously it was like

694
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:25.639
pretty hidden and.

695
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.239
Deep well, and it's like everything that she was doing

696
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.440
was like such a protective action.

697
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:35.119
I wish she would have just crab plot is a

698
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.039
little dick off.

699
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:45.920
Yeah, your lips to God's ears as they say, Ah, yesday, We'll.

700
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:47.199
See you next Thursday.

701
00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:51.400
Thursday. Oh my god, we're gonna really.

702
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:53.880
Mess that up. Yah, we're gonna be fine.

703
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.760
I'm definitely gonna be saying Tuesday for a while.

704
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.599
I'll just talk really loud over you so nobody knows

705
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:03.119
this perfect.

706
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:07.639
Oh, always covering my ass. What can I say?

707
00:46:08.880 --> 00:46:12.159
It's a nice ass. I gotta protect it. Oh, like

708
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:12.679
a crab

709
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:17.280
That booty pinch, pinch, pinch, peach