Nov. 19, 2025

Beyond the Cards: Art, Tarot, and Liminal Spaces

Beyond the Cards: Art, Tarot, and Liminal Spaces
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Join us for an engaging exploration of art and tarot with our guest, David, of Whiskey Terra Foxtrot. David offers insights into his creative process as he works on designing a hand-drawn Kickstarter tarot deck.
 
“The Liminal Deck is a traditional 78-card tarot deck with a non-traditional construction. De-gendered and de-saturated, drawing on vaguely unsettling, yet familiar imagery to recreate quiet contradictions of the dreamscape, it's the deck unlike any other.”
 
Listen in as we explore the intersection of art, creativity, and spirituality, discussing the significance of animals like foxes and crows in artwork and their symbolism in tarot. Our conversation highlights the importance of flexible interpretations in tarot reading, akin to cooking without rigidly following a recipe. We also share reflections on personal backgrounds and experiences with tarot, emphasizing the value of adding personal interpretations to traditional meanings. Through anecdotes and reflections, we illustrate how creativity and logic blend within the realm of spirituality.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/pnw-haunts-homicides--5955451/support.

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Sometimes in taro and other practices, people can get very

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rigid in things where they'll pull a card and it

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will mean only exactly what they have memorized. It means yeah,

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and there may be like no ill intention with that.

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But sometimes people just I don't think rut is the

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right word. But it's the closest where they're they're following

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the guidelines right, so they're doing it correctly versus what

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are the fluffy gray lines on the outside.

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Yeah, they're like the people that follow the recipe to

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the tea and like, don't add extra garlic, you know

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what I mean?

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Yeah, it's David right, it is David correct from whiskey.

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What is it?

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Whiskey Tara, foxtrot?

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Thank you. I kept saying whiskey fox trot Tara, and

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I was like, no, that's the wrong order. Because I'm

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slightly dyslexic.

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That's I People come up all the time and they

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kind of just I can see their whole brain squint

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at the sign, like, yes, this this is good.

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Yes. I met you at the Tacoma Haunted Farmer's Market. Yes,

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And I walked past your booth and I saw whiskey first,

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and I was like oh whiskey, Okay, what's this about?

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And then I saw like tarot stuff. Yeah, I know,

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like dang iet no samples, I'm walking away, but no.

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Then your art like drew me in. Thank you, I

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think pretty much. The first thing I saw I bought,

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which was the Mothman print, and it was so cute.

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And I was just seeing Mothman stuff everywhere all over

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in every booth and I was eyeballing everything and like

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nothing was just like hitting it was I don't know.

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And then I saw that and it's just a little

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Mothman and he's like on a lamp post, like on

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the light. It was just so cute, so I was like,

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I have to buy this something.

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I like to share with people about that one, and

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especially since you mentioned it and you were leaning that way.

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The reference photo for that one was actually a cat

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looking over the edge of a table, and that kind

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of ties into I get a lot of kids and

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teenagers talking about like art tips and unconnectional ways to

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do things, but I feel like using that reference photo

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kind of set it apart from some of the other

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things people see with Mothman. And I've had people comment

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specifically on that before.

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Yeah, maybe That's what drew by to it because I

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love cats.

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Too, So I don't really trust anyone who like, flat

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out like hates cats. Like if you're not a cat person,

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that's one thing. But I grew up with a bunch

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of guys like oh I hate casting. That ties into

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some other things, but it's always interesting.

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I know, Well, my co host is allergic. No, she's

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actually really allergic. She's like, I actually do like cats,

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but I just can't. I can't get close to them

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or I'll literally die.

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I've also noticed that some I know at least a

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couple people that are deathly allergic to cats, and there

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are some of the most cat loving people I have

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ever met, and that is really unfortunate. It would be

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so sad they come over and we open all the windows.

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And Okay, So I ended up buying this print, and

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it wasn't the large one like I wanted because I

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was on a little bit of a budget. So I

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had to ask you if there was a smaller print,

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which is kind of sometimes embarrassing because I'm like, hey,

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can I ask something cheaper?

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Yeah. That is the biggest reason that I have like

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more than a couple of different sizes because someone eventually

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is going to come through and either want a really

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tiny one that kind of just fits in the exact

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right place, or a really big one that they're going

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to put somewhere really weird and tell me about it

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later and ask great.

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Yeah, And the big one just drew me in, Like

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I don't know if I would have maybe seen it

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if it was just the smaller one out. But then

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we got to chatting and you told me that you're

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into tarot and you are actually designing your own tarot deck.

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Yes, and it's I want to say it's a round

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sixty percent done. I would have to do math real

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quick on that, but so I'll say that for later.

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How many cards seventy two or seventy eight.

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It's seventy eight cards plus a couple more. Because the

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back as well as the typography are also hand drawn.

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I decided that I'm going to finish everything before the

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end of the year, but also at the same time

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put all the specs out there for the Kickstarter so

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that people can watch it get finished and jump on

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it right as soon as it's available. Because it's also

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since it's traditional, I have to scan each one at

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a local company which adds other layers.

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I never even thought about the process of making a

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a Darrow deck a Tarot deck, and like getting it made,

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doing the actual art, and like getting it printed onto cards,

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Like what type of cards? Where does that all happen?

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This is a pretty in depth process, huh.

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Definitely. Most of the time, when I see other people

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doing a project like this, it's either an oracle deck,

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which is more like a fifty two cards, or even

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sometimes people start out with twenty cards and then they

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add booster packs or something like that. When I've seen

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people do the traditional seventy eight, it's much smaller pieces,

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more like an eight x ten for each one. But

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each one of these is twelve by sixteen, And I

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have no idea where that measurement came up, but that's

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what it started and what I'm sticking with. I feel

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like it might have made things a little bit more

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complicated than necessary, but it also lets me get in

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with a lot of other details that doing things more

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of a normal size would not necessary. Early.

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Let me, is it like a traditional Tarot deck where

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it's the bigger cards, or is it a different size

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even than that it.

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Is the long tarot cards, the traditional size, and I'm

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looking forward to formatting everything. The aspect ratio is different,

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so it'll be mostly the finished piece, the digital scan,

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and then down at the bottom will be the typography

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from a different piece.

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So let's talk about some of the art work that's

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on the cards. To me, they look super haunting and oh,

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I just love it, like dark but also beautiful.

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My work, for some reason, attracts a lot of kids.

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Most of the time, I say, oh, my work attracts

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a lot of kids, and people assume that I mean

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the stuffed animal section, and it's actually some of the

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dark art that has I'm really bad at telling ages,

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but I want to say, like eight and nine year

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olds come up and look a lot closer at things,

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and it's really fascina to have even just tiny conversations

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with them about like what it reminds them of or

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like if they do like Halloween, we can talk about

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how like spooky isn't isn't necessarily bad and it Yeah,

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the spooky that they're seeing in the Princiet, it kind

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of makes them think more about things versus like monsters

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straight out right.

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Yeah, that's why, like the word haunting I think came

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to me, but that might that might be scary to

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some people, but for me, haunting means like beautiful. Oh

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that reminds me. In the beginning, before we even even

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started recording. Oh yeah, it was like you reminded me

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of Shelby Oaks because it's not giving anything away, but

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there's a shiny there's a shiny eye situation in that movie,

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and that looks exactly like that.

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I moved the little webcam and I try to put

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my glasses back on for blue light stuff, and it

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is crazy.

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Oh my goodness, it looks like you've on purpose put

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like moving googly eyes on there.

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I'm gonna actually take those off because it looks like

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I'm staring at you really pointed.

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I'm not creeped out.

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I might creep myself out, so I'm okay with that.

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I could see that. Circling back around to what you

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were saying about the kids being attracted to your artwork.

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A lot of it is like animal related. Yes, what's

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your favorite animal to use in the artwork?

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I think the easiest would probably be foxes because I

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grew up a lot drawing dogs and I was a

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big neopet kind of kid, and those are all sorts

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of different mishmash of different animals, but a lot of

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them are dogs, like the back legs and everything. It

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just translated as I got older, probably the foxes and

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the crows.

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Crows, I love them.

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When I got away from drawing like dragons so much,

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that was what was more popular in finding books at

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the library. That was how to draw fifty dogs, or

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like how to draw fifty birds. And then I found

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the favorites.

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I like that. I like that you answered fox because

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obviously it's in your name. Oh yes, And I also

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love crows. I want to see what is the card

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with the crow on it?

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Crows are dominant in the wands suit. Okay, a lot

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of that suit has to do with technology and cameras,

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and then also moving over to like the LEDs in

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different technology, and then moving over to candles and such.

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But the page night and then what's typically the King

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and the queen are all crows, oh, crows, For obvious reasons.

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It kind of represents the intelligence factor of things. The

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very hands on the kind of bridging the gap between

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pentacles and wands is the idea of doing things with

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your hands can be a spiritual action kind of in

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an engage your brain type of way. So in the

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wands suit, it very naturally organically drifted over to the

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ace of wands is a candle, but the two of

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wands is a very kind of protest coated individual with

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mask and hoodie and everything with two glowing eyes, because

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sometimes you have to just there would be no technology

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if someone didn't have the idea first. So it's kind

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of the both sides of the coin of you can

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be completely logical, but you have to have kind of

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that spark of creativity, which to me translates to what

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spirituality should really be. It's the application of things, not

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just the purely cerebral aspect of things.

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Yeah, I love that you were just we were talking

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about your glowing eyes, and then we ended up talking

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about we're not on video for everyone to see, but

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we can see each other. And David was wearing glasses

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and there was like a reflection that made him look

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like he had these two glowing eyes that were just

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bearing into my soul.

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I think in terms of stories a lot, but especially

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since I'm in my thirties and its twenty twenty five,

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I do make a lot of movie and video game references,

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so just putting that out there before I say, there

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is a new Silent Hill game that came out that

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involves a very traditionally Japanese like historically dressed essentially fox

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guy where he's human except for a fox mask and

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like long white kimono and everything. That might not be the.

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Right word, but I don't know. Someone will tell us.

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He's very distracting. I can, I can put it that

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way and in the best way. But he's all in

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white and has white hair and everything. The whites of

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his eyes are black, and then his irises are like

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a pale blue glow, very similar to how that was.

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It's so creepy but like cool.

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A big part of why I wanted to start the deck,

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other than making something that I wanted to actually use,

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was sometimes in taro and other practices, people can get

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very rigid in things where they'll pull a card and

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it will mean only exactly what they have memorized. It

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means yeah, and there may be like no ill intention

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with that, but sometimes people just I don't think rut

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is the right word, but it's the closest where they're

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following the guidelines right, So they're doing it correctly versus

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what are the fluffy gray lines on the outside.

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Yeah, they're like the people that follow the recipe to

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the tea and like, don't add extra garlic, you know

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what I mean.

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Yeah, too many people tend to treat everything like it's

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baking and you have to do everything with precision. But yeah,

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more in life is more like cooking, where you can

235
00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:05.320
you can fudge it a little bit, you can make substitutions,

236
00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:09.360
and even in kind of the baking framework, if you

237
00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.279
know exactly why it works, then you can do other

238
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:15.840
things on top of it. And in my experience, people

239
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:18.120
kind of get a little afraid of that, but they

240
00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:20.840
don't they don't want to admit that that's what it is,

241
00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:24.799
so they buy the guidebook where they buy their fifth

242
00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.320
deck that's a redraw of the traditional ones.

243
00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:32.279
I have not done taro for very long. It's only

244
00:13:32.360 --> 00:13:35.320
been like since we started the podcast, Okay, so like

245
00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:39.360
maybe five years at this point. So we got the

246
00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:41.960
interpretation books so that we could kind of like learn

247
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:43.679
as we go, So when we draw a card, we

248
00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:47.799
kind of read from that or even like google things,

249
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.200
or we'll look at the smaller interpretation books that usually

250
00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:53.159
come with the deck, so we'll use like a couple

251
00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.159
of different things. But then as well is look at

252
00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.440
the card and kind of see what we feel about it,

253
00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:05.600
or add little in sorts of things kind of relating

254
00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:07.879
it to what we're talking about. So it kind of

255
00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:10.759
it makes it stick in your brain a little bit more.

256
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:15.639
But also you're kind of adding your own interpretations to

257
00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.879
the interpretations, if that made any sense.

258
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:23.039
Just a preface. I don't remember exactly when I consider

259
00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.639
myself having started tarots, So you may actually have more

260
00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.759
experience with it than I do, but we probably just

261
00:14:30.799 --> 00:14:35.080
came at it from similar directions but different backgrounds, and

262
00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:39.919
everybody has that. In short, I have a very religious background,

263
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:44.759
oh shit, in a mainstream religion. I don't want to

264
00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:50.120
turn the whole conversation into just about that particular religion

265
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:51.720
because it's very easy to do.

266
00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:54.399
Yeah, okay, I mean we go there all the time anyway,

267
00:14:54.480 --> 00:14:55.960
So that's right.

268
00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:59.879
I'd be happy to just with the way my brain

269
00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.080
works that, don't want to just turn it into the

270
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:04.600
an anti sermon.

271
00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:07.480
Let me put it that way, right, Yeah, we're talking

272
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:09.600
about art here exactly.

273
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.480
Yeah, sometimes people can bring the baggage of that kind

274
00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:19.840
of thing into other practices where even though it's not

275
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:22.799
under that heading anymore and not under that label, they

276
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:27.320
can find things like how to do taro and be

277
00:15:27.559 --> 00:15:30.919
very like, no, we got to do it buy the book. Yeah,

278
00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.720
you don't have to anyway, because.

279
00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.440
That's like you were doing it by the Bible, and

280
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.840
like taro is not the interpretation book. Isn't the Bible?

281
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:40.600
Like you you feel it.

282
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:45.639
Yeah, that's the like there there's there are good things

283
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:50.360
in every like realm of things spiritually and otherwise, but

284
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.120
you got to make some decisions with like does that

285
00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:58.279
mean it's exclusive to this one bucket over here? And sometimes,

286
00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:01.679
especially when people have had the type of background that

287
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:03.600
I have, it can be really hard to get away

288
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:09.480
from the feeling of like all this this manual wasn't it,

289
00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:12.360
So we need to find a different manual and follow

290
00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:15.399
it like we did the other one. And yeah, that

291
00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:18.759
also ain't it. But everyone has to go through that process.

292
00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:24.879
Write your own manual and then don't follow that either. Yeah,

293
00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:27.799
it's keep changing it, make up new rules every day.

294
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:29.879
That's how I live my life. Plot twist.

295
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:33.440
Someone ONTs paraphrased it for me where I was saying

296
00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.000
something about like positive chaos, and he kind of stopped

297
00:16:37.080 --> 00:16:41.480
went so basically basically freedom where people hear the word

298
00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:45.279
chaos and think, oh, things exploding and everything going wrong,

299
00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:51.480
Like no, positive practical chaos is rolling with things and

300
00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:55.759
not being hung up on what actually keeps you from

301
00:16:55.879 --> 00:17:01.480
your goals, which is very natural, I guess, and I'm

302
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:06.759
a big proponent of humans are supposed to hibernate. Then

303
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.599
big box stores came along, stuck a wrench in that

304
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:12.440
and went, no, you have to work over Christmas, Like, no,

305
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:13.880
that's that's not how it should be.

306
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:19.880
I know, even though Christmas was stolen from the Pagans whatever,

307
00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.119
we should still shouldn't have to work.

308
00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.720
You what I know about it promotes very much a

309
00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:31.240
like getting ready to hibernate kind of thing. You stick

310
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.680
more forks in it and like, no, this is the

311
00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.720
most stressful time of year for a lot of people,

312
00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:37.400
Like it doesn't have to be that way.

313
00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.359
But yeah, I'm trying to trying to fix that. In

314
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.400
my life. It's getting smaller and more intimate on the

315
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:49.160
Christmas and more spending time and less gifting and things

316
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:49.480
like that.

317
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:51.440
But excellent idea.

318
00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:54.799
Gifts are great though, and you know what you should

319
00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:59.920
buy for people is like independent art. So do you

320
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.319
have a whole website with different art on it?

321
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.079
I do, yes, And I also want to say I

322
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:09.400
am biased, but I can appreciate talking about go more independent,

323
00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:12.880
like go more direct. Yeah, yeah, I do have a website.

324
00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:14.759
I am the only one who runs it. So every

325
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.680
now and then there is a different kind of fork

326
00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.839
stuck in whatever widget, and I always encourage people to

327
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.599
tell me when that happens because I can look at

328
00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:29.240
it from backdoors and everything. So there is portfolio, there's

329
00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:34.079
a blog. There is a page of books, and also

330
00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:38.599
the web shop. And it instead of Whiskey Terra Fox Strike,

331
00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:43.200
it's actually called Blackbird Parlor until further notice when I

332
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:44.920
can afford the separate website.

333
00:18:45.640 --> 00:18:48.359
I love that it's Blackbird too, because, like we were

334
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.079
just talking about crows, I feel like there's a theme here.

335
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:54.359
I really like it. Yes, do you have any booths

336
00:18:54.480 --> 00:18:55.000
coming up?

337
00:18:55.160 --> 00:18:59.039
The organizer of the Haunted Farmer's Market is doing a

338
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.480
creep miss market at magnuson Hanger.

339
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.240
They're so genius. I want to go.

340
00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:10.920
It's Tacoma to Seattle is definitely a big jump, but

341
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.599
I have already been told by quite a few people

342
00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.400
that they're really excited for that one because it's much

343
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.799
closer and kind of what people perceive as more centrally located.

344
00:19:21.880 --> 00:19:25.960
I guess it is also two days, which I am

345
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.640
really excited for because then I get to leave stuff.

346
00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:34.000
Yeah. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to pack and set

347
00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:35.359
up that stuff.

348
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:40.960
Oh my gosh, it's an acquired skill. It's I am

349
00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.720
of the generation that definitely grew up playing Tetris on

350
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.519
the living room floor and sometimes packing the car is

351
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:49.720
a lot like that.

352
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.160
Seriously, Like we had no idea when we were getting

353
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:55.640
into podcasting, like what the fuck we were doing, and

354
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.319
we ended up like starting to do festivals and like

355
00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.839
these marks get things and we don't have stuff to sell,

356
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:07.559
and we're struggling. And then I'm looking around at these

357
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.359
people with all of this inventory and it's like stuff

358
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:13.960
that they've made, and I'm like, oh my god, we

359
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:16.559
just have to like pack a mini taro and like

360
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:22.480
decorations and a wheel, and but like we're struggling with

361
00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:26.480
three people. So do you run the booth by yourself

362
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:27.599
or do you ever have help?

363
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.559
Most of the time, I run it by myself. Every

364
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.920
now and then the person I was talking about. She

365
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.920
used to help me more, but she has a very

366
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:39.799
different job than I do, so asking her to take

367
00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:44.599
up weekends as well as not fair. But every now

368
00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.680
and then she's also there, But vast majority of the

369
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.240
time it's by myself.

370
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:51.599
You don't really think about it until you're doing it.

371
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.880
It's like, oh my god, Like how do I even

372
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.160
take a break? Like you can't just leave your booth,

373
00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.960
you know, Yeah, it's unless you have a tag tea.

374
00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.079
Depending on the type of events, sometimes I'm able to

375
00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.519
put a sign up and then notify the people on

376
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:10.319
either side of me, like there is nobody else here

377
00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:14.720
with me. If someone like takes a shelf, that's bad. Yeah,

378
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:18.279
But sometimes it is. I'm able to talk to someone

379
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.480
on either side of me and it will be like

380
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:24.359
a husband and wife team and they're perfectly fine with

381
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.680
me saying like, hey, could I step out for five minutes?

382
00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:33.640
And I also typically have my service dog, so sometimes

383
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.000
that pre tips people off to like, yes, I need

384
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.359
to go real quick and then I come back and

385
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:42.119
most sometimes people are fine with that.

386
00:21:42.119 --> 00:21:46.039
That is nice too. About like the community of what

387
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.680
do we what do we call these things? Like mark market,

388
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:53.960
the market community that works. That's booth runner community. I

389
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.559
don't know, you know what I'm trying to say.

390
00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:00.839
Very occasionally there's like some weird, rotten apple of stuff,

391
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.839
but I'm not here to talk about that. I try

392
00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:07.519
to default to the everything is fine until it's not fine,

393
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:12.279
but then that's a whole other different discussion. But yeah,

394
00:22:12.519 --> 00:22:16.160
it's pretty good. It's like sometimes I can literally just

395
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:18.640
tell someone that my sign is up and I feel

396
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.400
perfectly fine with running to the bathroom or taking care

397
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.680
of the dog, and I have never had problems yet.

398
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.680
Yeah. So if you're ever at a festival and the

399
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.839
booth person isn't there, like hang around a minute if

400
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.359
you're interested and you want to buy something, don't get

401
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:38.319
impatient with people. What got you into tarot? Like what

402
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:39.240
sparked it?

403
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:44.960
Trying to kind of find a period of time where

404
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:50.119
I was more free to basically get a tarot deck

405
00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:52.279
if I really wanted one. As I said, I used

406
00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.480
to have a very very religious background. For lack of

407
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:57.519
a better term, there was a period of my life

408
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:01.440
where I pulled the plug just and dried, pulled everything

409
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.400
and shifted a lot of direction in my life. So

410
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.799
there were a couple of years where I didn't really

411
00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:16.680
identify as pagan or witch or anything. But as I

412
00:23:16.759 --> 00:23:19.079
started to realize I did like those terms, so if

413
00:23:19.119 --> 00:23:21.359
I was going to use those terms, I should probably

414
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:22.440
do my research.

415
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:25.119
Yeah, thank goodness.

416
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:30.200
Yeah, that was about the time that I started noticing

417
00:23:30.319 --> 00:23:33.079
that these things were popping up a little bit more

418
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:37.000
in my life where it wasn't necessarily an algorithm kind

419
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:42.359
of thing. For example, my first tarot deck was themed

420
00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:47.200
around a podcast called Welcome to night Vale, and that's

421
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:50.799
one that I definitely recommend to pretty much everybody. It's

422
00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:55.279
like a more candy colored version of it, somewhere between

423
00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:58.880
the Magnus Archives and kind of eerie Indiana vibes. But

424
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.720
I was looking around in their merch shop and they

425
00:24:03.799 --> 00:24:08.920
carried a tarot deck and I had already looked at

426
00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.279
them through Etsy and other things, and theirs was twenty dollars,

427
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:16.240
I think, which was a really good price, a really

428
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.559
good steal. So I up and got that. And I'm

429
00:24:19.559 --> 00:24:22.319
a very tactile and visual person, so it was kind

430
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.559
of the gateway toward this is something that I can

431
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.319
hold in my hand. I can do this on my terms,

432
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:31.079
but also read the articles and everything, so I think

433
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:36.640
it was probably revolving around that. The kind of it

434
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:39.920
also did not come with a guidebook, which I feel

435
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:47.680
like informed a lot of my developing practices of sidebook

436
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.480
comes after just take a look first.

437
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.720
Like intuitively feel what you feel in the cards before

438
00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:56.119
you yes look at the.

439
00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.359
Guide and that one in particular has some crazy art.

440
00:25:00.960 --> 00:25:04.720
I always feel like I was too not scared to

441
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:08.400
do taro because of religion or anything like that, and

442
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.640
I just felt like if I was a witch, I

443
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.400
would have known. I don't know why. I don't know

444
00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:17.359
where that came from, but I just always was like, oh, well,

445
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.440
I'm not a witch, so I can't do the taro.

446
00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:24.359
I can see where you would come from with that.

447
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.400
That might be some kind of the word I can

448
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:29.799
only think of as like layover. That's not the right term,

449
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:33.720
kind of like bleed over, I guess from I know

450
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:36.160
a lot of people hear witch and they think of

451
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:40.240
like in a religious sense. But going into it, I

452
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.960
knew that witch was a little bit different, which is

453
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:45.480
like baker or like lawyer and things. That's the thing

454
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:49.000
that you do. I guess, yeah, but I can see

455
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:52.920
that someone who doesn't really have those connections would hear

456
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:57.799
witch and think like like priest, Like I'm not allowed

457
00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:00.240
to wear that because I'm not a priest, and since

458
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:01.960
I'm not a witch, I'm not going to get one

459
00:26:01.960 --> 00:26:04.279
of xyz exactly.

460
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:08.000
Yeah. I think it's because we weren't really like exposed

461
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:10.640
to it, or I wasn't exposed to it as much

462
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:13.200
other than you know, like Sabrina the teenage Witch or

463
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:17.559
whatever little witches with powers like Halloween Town. It's like

464
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:20.759
you were a witch with powers or you weren't. And

465
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:22.400
I was like, well, I don't have Yeah, I can

466
00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:25.240
see that too, magic shooting from my fingers, So like

467
00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:27.279
I can't be a witch. And then when I got

468
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:29.599
into an adult, I was like, wait a minute, why

469
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.039
did I I just like discounted this thing. I was

470
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:35.480
so interested in my entire life and then now I'm

471
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:38.960
like learning, oh I can, that's not actually what that means.

472
00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.960
Like it took me until I was like thirty to

473
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:44.440
realize that you can be a witch if you want

474
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:44.680
to be.

475
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:48.839
That's a really interesting perspective because I was just thinking

476
00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:52.519
just now that I think I mentioned that even if

477
00:26:52.519 --> 00:26:55.880
we ended up at mostly the same spot, we kind

478
00:26:55.880 --> 00:26:59.680
of came at it from different directions because I did

479
00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:04.359
grow with things like Halloween Town. But I also in

480
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:09.359
like late teens early twenties, I watched things like Supernatural

481
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.680
and I had my own computer, so I was pirating

482
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.559
a little bit. We want talk, but watching things like

483
00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:17.240
like The Craft.

484
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.799
I didn't watch that until I was like thirty.

485
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:21.720
That's fun movie.

486
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:23.200
Where was I?

487
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:27.440
So I had a little bit more of a frame

488
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.799
of reference for it being a thing that you learn

489
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:35.039
and then do versus kind of like the Harry Potter

490
00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:37.759
dichotomy of genetic lottery.

491
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.400
And yes, I know, I was always like, where's my

492
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.720
letter to fucking Hogwarts. I'm a huffle puff, let's go.

493
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.880
Yes, I don't really do Harry Potter stuff anymore, but

494
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:53.319
a lot of the the parallels and like the structure

495
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:57.720
still is really interesting because like waiting for somebody to

496
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:00.400
tell you that your special or your life to do

497
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.119
something versus I don't think there were many quote unquote

498
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.240
good witches in Supernatural, but it was always like the

499
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:11.759
mom down the street decided to be a witch now,

500
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.440
And it was always framed as a like be very

501
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:20.400
careful with the stuff that you do versus just predisposition

502
00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:21.160
or something like that.

503
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.799
I don't know if I am loose with the rules

504
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:27.160
or whatever, but I'm just like I come at it

505
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:30.359
where I just feel protected and I feel like nothing

506
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:33.960
is gonna get at me, and I like set intentions

507
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.839
of like being protected, so I'm not too concerned with

508
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.599
like something bad getting in because I'm doing witchcraft or

509
00:28:40.599 --> 00:28:42.319
something like that, which I think a lot of people

510
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:45.240
are concerned about, which is if you are, you know,

511
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.880
make like assault circle or do more intense things if

512
00:28:48.920 --> 00:28:52.000
that's what you're concerned about. But I'm I'm just not.

513
00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:57.920
That makes sense from my experience kind of reaching out

514
00:28:57.960 --> 00:29:01.880
to like witch tags on social media and different groups

515
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:06.720
and stuff. I think some of that idea comes from

516
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.359
other people talking about it, and like, I don't mean

517
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:16.440
to attribute any specific motivations, but it's kind of the

518
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:20.480
sense of when people watch a lot of movies with

519
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:24.519
witches and then someone pulls the death card, even if

520
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:28.079
you know that's not what it means, if you watch

521
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.799
enough of those movies, sometimes there's a very subtle sense

522
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:34.480
of but what if this time it means that?

523
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.599
Right? I know, I was laughing at some movie the

524
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:40.400
other day, I don't even know what it was, and

525
00:29:40.440 --> 00:29:43.119
they're like, oh, they pulled the death card and all

526
00:29:43.160 --> 00:29:46.440
the dundo dumb music, and I was like, bitch, that

527
00:29:46.599 --> 00:29:48.960
just means you need to like dump your boyfriend or

528
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.039
something like things are fine.

529
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:54.319
Dump your boyfriend, maybe quit your job, take a road

530
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:56.960
trip that you've always wanted to do, something.

531
00:29:56.680 --> 00:30:01.039
Like that, but change it up, let something go.

532
00:30:02.599 --> 00:30:07.200
For example, on Taro's I've always read the Devil card

533
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.680
has not so much like oh you need to like

534
00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:11.920
change everything up, or like someone's lying to you, or

535
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:16.759
really heavy things like that. It's always been about perceptions

536
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:22.039
to me, because like the Devil was not portrayed as

537
00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:25.799
like a red guy with like hoofs and horns, at

538
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:30.599
least to the extent today until Pan came into the picture.

539
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:34.839
Oh yeah, to me, it's more about perceptions. And at

540
00:30:34.839 --> 00:30:38.240
one point I was really frustrated I couldn't find like

541
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.680
a shirt I was looking for an event, so I

542
00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:43.720
pulled a tarot card and it ended up being the

543
00:30:43.759 --> 00:30:48.920
Devil and a blue screen for a second, and after

544
00:30:49.039 --> 00:30:51.880
processing for a second, I sat down on the floor

545
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.359
because perspectives and everything, and I forget exactly where I

546
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:58.279
found it, but it was somewhere weird that I would

547
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:01.440
not have thought of unless I sat on the floor

548
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:04.759
and looked like back at the door in a way

549
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:08.480
I normally don't, like under the bed or like between

550
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.400
cushions or something. Yeah, because that's how I decorate.

551
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:12.880
It's just aesthetic, Okay.

552
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.759
Yeah, I love a good like fantasy B movie or

553
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:21.839
like sci fi B movie. But that's also when they

554
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:24.599
do things like pull death or the Tower or the Devil.

555
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.000
It's like, this is what it means in that universe

556
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.920
If I pull that later sometimes it just means go

557
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:31.599
do the dishes.

558
00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:35.720
Yeah, the perspective one who always reminds me of the

559
00:31:35.759 --> 00:31:39.799
hanged demand, Like people always think the hanged man is

560
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:43.400
one of like kind of equivalent to death, and I'm like, no,

561
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:46.000
do you see like he's kind of happy, just like

562
00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.400
upside down in his own little world like hanging out.

563
00:31:50.559 --> 00:31:53.079
Most of the illustrations for that have always looked a

564
00:31:53.079 --> 00:31:58.319
little bit lemony snaket ish to me. Yeah, some weird

565
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:00.400
uncle that you have or like an member of the

566
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:03.559
Adams family. That's just I need to go think.

567
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:08.319
Yes exactly. Is there anything you specifically want to talk

568
00:32:08.319 --> 00:32:10.400
about that I haven't touched on, like about your art

569
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:12.160
or your business.

570
00:32:11.720 --> 00:32:16.599
It's something that occasionally I have difficulty like quantifying, but

571
00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:19.920
it's always something that I'm interested and very willing to

572
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:27.079
talk about. Is I think I mentioned something earlier about like, yes,

573
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:32.720
I did in a sense pick this drama, but the

574
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:37.839
for reasons that my service dog exists. It kind of

575
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:41.559
ties into the I used to work retail and I've

576
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:45.599
done some office jobs and things, but I a lot

577
00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:48.279
of the time when I talk about how I have

578
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:52.359
to do this because of my health, I know sometimes

579
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:56.680
people are kind of wary of conversation not getting like

580
00:32:56.799 --> 00:33:00.720
super deep into that area. But whenever people hear me

581
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:04.559
thank them for coming by to visit, I try to

582
00:33:04.599 --> 00:33:06.920
impress upon them that I really, I really do mean

583
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:12.000
that because it's all of the creativity and all the

584
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.960
things that I am able to do with scheduling and

585
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:20.440
what resources I do have. It's under a certain kind

586
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:24.680
of pressure of Sometimes people talk about the feast and

587
00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:28.519
famine cycles and everything. I don't really have fallbacks for

588
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.519
when it is like the famine cycles and things. And

589
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.960
I've been doing this for a few years and learning

590
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:41.960
a lot of things, but it's still in terms of numbers,

591
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:48.160
very very not supporting. Yeah, so when people are able

592
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:51.759
to come by. I try to give people really good experience,

593
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:56.160
the really cool vibes where it's more than just visiting

594
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.200
a shop. I kind of joke on half joke on

595
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.400
social media. It's a little bit of a pocket dimension

596
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:05.319
that I try to share with people because it's part

597
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.599
of the comfortable space in my brain that I would

598
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:11.719
really love to share. And that's also a big reason

599
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:16.679
that I have been very proactive in support in promoting

600
00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:20.920
the kickstarter, because once that goes through in one way

601
00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.519
or another, that is a whole lot of work that

602
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:30.320
I don't need to do again. But also it's a

603
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:37.760
huge step towards sharing the particularly like comfy weird vibes

604
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.679
that I've been trying to share all along. So it's

605
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:44.559
the weird limbo between. It would really really help me

606
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.920
out in various reasons that I picked this, Yes, but

607
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.599
I was also kind of shoved into it. But also

608
00:34:51.880 --> 00:34:54.360
give people a return on their investment, I think is

609
00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:57.159
the best way to put that where I've always wanted

610
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.239
to be working for the support that I get. Yeah,

611
00:35:01.239 --> 00:35:04.840
but the kickstarter is the biggest way to finally pull

612
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.079
the trigger of having the funding to scan everything and

613
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.880
all of my time to format and X y Z

614
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:14.679
and finally have something really big to put out.

615
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:17.719
We were just talking about the movie Shelby Oaks that

616
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:19.519
started as a kickstarter, So like.

617
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:22.440
Okay, I am suddenly way more interested in that movie.

618
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:24.880
I know. That's why I'm like telling everyone about it.

619
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:26.480
And I went to see it in the movie theater

620
00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:28.639
because well, if I'm gonna pay twenty dollars to go

621
00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:30.280
to the movie theater, like, I'm gonna give it to

622
00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:34.400
someone who worked really hard and to get there and

623
00:35:34.719 --> 00:35:37.719
had to ask for help and had people help them, And.

624
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:41.199
Yeah, that's definitely going way higher on my list.

625
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:44.800
So your tarot deck is the liminal deck? Is that

626
00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:45.599
what you're calling it?

627
00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:47.320
Yes, it's the liminal deck.

628
00:35:47.800 --> 00:35:50.079
Okay, what does that mean? Because I kind of know

629
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:51.559
what it means, but other people might not.

630
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.719
Liminal a lot of the times, especially in media lately,

631
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:59.239
tends to me like a like an unsettling empty space.

632
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:03.000
You might have heard the title the back Rooms.

633
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:04.719
Oh that's exactly what I think of.

634
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.239
I'm a big fan of the back Rooms because it's

635
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:11.320
a vibe. But liminal in a more specific sense is

636
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:16.800
an in between space or like an in between stage.

637
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.199
Of something where we live. There used to be a

638
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.280
gap in the fence that we could run over, and

639
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:25.679
it was a really quick way to get like over

640
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.960
to grocery stores and pharmacy and whatever. Before they filled

641
00:36:29.960 --> 00:36:32.039
that in because some stuff happened. It's a good way

642
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:34.559
to get into where we live too, so they filled

643
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.039
it in. I used that a little bit in my

644
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:42.000
practice because it was a perfect little, tiny liminal space

645
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:44.920
that didn't jump out. It's like, oh, look at this

646
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:48.239
as creepy. That's so cool, instead of the sense of

647
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:51.320
like a very concerted effort at being creepy, like the

648
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:56.199
back rooms, it's something right in between, or kind of

649
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.719
the sense of having one foot on either side of

650
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:00.760
a line, or.

651
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.039
One foot in the living world and one in the

652
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.119
in the dead world. What is it the other side?

653
00:37:06.159 --> 00:37:08.440
Oh exactly. That's what I was gonna say, is.

654
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.199
Oh, you probably will say it better than me. Let

655
00:37:11.239 --> 00:37:11.760
me shut up.

656
00:37:12.079 --> 00:37:18.000
There is a term in witchcraft called hedgewitch that sometimes

657
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:22.719
people misinterpret that as meaning like like, oh, a witch

658
00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:27.079
of like plants and hedges, and but it's actually a

659
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:34.039
term meaning someone whose practices involve like the middle world.

660
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:39.119
And sometimes that's like the astral or sometimes it's a

661
00:37:39.159 --> 00:37:43.199
little bit of a People don't really like the term

662
00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:48.239
necromancy because that's also it's also a Hollywood thing, but

663
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:52.119
in a softer sense of like speaking with spirits and

664
00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:59.760
having very purposeful dreams and some practices involving flying. That's

665
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:03.079
the hedge, which because in like northern Europe, I think

666
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:09.239
it's especially in England, England and Scotland, they would have big,

667
00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:13.079
massive fields, but then instead of just fences, they would

668
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:15.679
have something called the hedge where it would be a

669
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.440
strip of trees where it was a lot more dense

670
00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:24.280
than everything else. So liminal is also very much a

671
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:30.880
kind of like the hedge in traditional English countryside where

672
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:33.679
you walk into there and it's almost like a different world,

673
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:36.519
and then you walk out on the other side and

674
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.199
then it's just another field and you might be in

675
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:40.760
your neighbor's cowfield or something.

676
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:45.039
Is that what like the the gift of Homer Simpson

677
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.320
going into the hedge, She's like going into the other side,

678
00:38:48.519 --> 00:38:52.039
is that he's different.

679
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:54.440
I can never see that the same. I mean it,

680
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:56.039
thank you for that, You're welcome.

681
00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:59.320
He's in a liminals. That's like, that's your new symbol

682
00:38:59.400 --> 00:38:59.920
for eliminals.

683
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:04.639
Yeah, it's very much like that. And I called the

684
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:08.679
deck the liminal deck because even if I say negative

685
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:11.440
things all about like oh, this is too traditional, people

686
00:39:11.519 --> 00:39:14.920
get very bogged down and just all of the rules.

687
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:18.960
Tradition isn't bad by itself, it's when you kind of

688
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:22.400
fixate on that and you don't acknowledge how it affects

689
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.800
things now. So I like to take what still works

690
00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:30.320
from tradition, but combine it with new ideas. So the

691
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:36.480
Liminal Deck is very much my design toward keeping things

692
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:40.760
familiar enough where people who like taro will still recognize

693
00:39:40.840 --> 00:39:45.000
it as something that they've used before. But there's a

694
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.400
lot that's different in the deck where hopefully people who

695
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:53.199
are in a really like cozy, comfortable space in tarot

696
00:39:53.320 --> 00:39:56.280
can still use it and think to themselves, well, what

697
00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:01.440
if it also this, or have different ideas and kind

698
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:04.440
of at least peek over the fence of things other

699
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:05.679
things that are more possible.

700
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:09.119
I also love that there are so many different decks

701
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:11.840
and different even if it's a traditional deck, it has

702
00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:15.079
it could have, Like there's so many different artworks, so

703
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:20.280
many different styles. I love having multiple different decks because,

704
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:24.440
like I kind of intuitively choose one for how I'm

705
00:40:24.480 --> 00:40:28.199
feeling or whatever story we're talking about, or I have.

706
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:31.159
If I'm reading for somebody else, they can choose the deck.

707
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:33.800
So it's kind of nice just to have ones that

708
00:40:33.880 --> 00:40:38.639
you can choose that kind of fit what you're reading.

709
00:40:38.519 --> 00:40:40.679
In the way that you describe that just now. It

710
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:43.960
kind of reminds me of when people tell stories of

711
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.559
going over to their grandparents' house and their grandmother might

712
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:50.239
have a whole bunch of different teacups or something like

713
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:55.239
that in their cabinet, and then different different grandkids get

714
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:59.000
to pick different ones, and everybody's going to have their

715
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:02.360
own vibes, and they might change them up every now

716
00:41:02.400 --> 00:41:07.199
and then. But I try not to be just straight

717
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:12.119
up derogatory about traditional decks and other traditional things. But

718
00:41:12.280 --> 00:41:17.400
it's kind of like you said, most people that I

719
00:41:17.440 --> 00:41:20.519
know who are into taro, it's kind of like tattoos,

720
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:24.199
like it's very hard to have just one right once

721
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:28.119
the kickstarter goes live. I do say it in some

722
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.199
of the video, which I worked very hard on, and

723
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:32.719
it has some vibes that I also like to share,

724
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:38.519
but I try to make it clear that I don't

725
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:41.159
want to ever try and set myself up as an

726
00:41:41.199 --> 00:41:46.119
authority on things. But I definitely want to contribute towards things.

727
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.599
I try to add something rather than just claw at

728
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:51.760
something else and take it away.

729
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:54.159
It's always better to add to the world, right than

730
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:58.880
just like replace things. I enjoy other people's perspective too,

731
00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:02.000
Like I like to see as many different perspectives as possible.

732
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:03.039
I think it's really important.

733
00:42:03.119 --> 00:42:06.159
I definitely agree with that. My brain is chaos, so

734
00:42:06.199 --> 00:42:10.880
it doesn't always stick same. But yeah, it's if more

735
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:16.159
people entertained the different ideas or at least tried new things,

736
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:18.079
and I think we'd be a lot better off.

737
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:22.440
Yeah. Do you have a Tarot deck right now? Would

738
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:23.599
you like to pull a card?

739
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:26.880
I know exactly where the Nightvale deck that I referenced

740
00:42:27.000 --> 00:42:31.000
actually is awesome and it's the kind of old where

741
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:33.760
the string broke and everything. But I still have the bag.

742
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.960
Oh, I love that. Do you do taroll with other

743
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:39.840
people or for other people? Often?

744
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:44.920
I do have a few listings, like on my coffee page.

745
00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:50.960
I have small readings and then I do offer the

746
00:42:51.519 --> 00:42:53.440
really large Celtic cross spread.

747
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:54.239
Ooh.

748
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:57.360
Most of the time it's for myself and I used

749
00:42:57.400 --> 00:43:02.519
to do readings at my booth. But because of numbers

750
00:43:02.559 --> 00:43:07.400
and other like logistics and my attention span, I don't

751
00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:10.039
do that in person anymore unless there's a helper with me,

752
00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:14.000
just in case that's yeah, something explodes, then we have

753
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:15.920
to chase paper and stuff like that.

754
00:43:16.079 --> 00:43:19.239
Yeah, I And we usually just either like pull a

755
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:23.760
card for whatever we were talking about or whatever somebody

756
00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:25.960
needs to hear who's listening right now, Like you don't

757
00:43:26.000 --> 00:43:29.000
specifically have to read for me, okay.

758
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:34.639
I do like the idea of I sometimes I do

759
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:40.079
unconventional readings where either someone is holding a question in

760
00:43:40.119 --> 00:43:44.360
their head or just a very general reading something that

761
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:48.719
when people are new to Taro, I try to let

762
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.599
them know that yes or no questions are not a

763
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:54.679
good idea because it's not supposed to be like a

764
00:43:54.760 --> 00:43:59.000
magic able, I guess. But if the interpretation of a

765
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:02.360
card or a spread of cards makes them think of something,

766
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:05.440
and it's probably something that they need to think about.

767
00:44:06.440 --> 00:44:06.840
Mm hmm.

768
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:07.320
Yeah.

769
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:09.480
That's kind of what I always tell people to, like,

770
00:44:09.920 --> 00:44:12.880
we can pretty much relate any card to something that's

771
00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:14.960
going on in your question. Just give me a little

772
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.239
time to think about it, Like I I could piece

773
00:44:17.320 --> 00:44:18.599
something together for you.

774
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:21.960
So I think what I'm going to do is do

775
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:28.679
a reading for anyone who's listening, and it might actually

776
00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:32.360
be a case of it applies to a bunch of

777
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:35.920
different people. So that's why I kind of wanted to

778
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:38.320
describe it as if it makes you think of something,

779
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:42.159
then it's probably something that you need to think about.

780
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:46.440
Okay, So let's all send our energy from the past

781
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:48.519
and the future and the present.

782
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:53.480
And for you that can see just I don't know

783
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:55.840
if they make the stick anymore, because they did like

784
00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:58.719
a different version, but that's the back of it right there.

785
00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:01.519
Oh oh, it's an eyeball.

786
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:08.960
Let's go with one. And because we have also talked

787
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:13.960
a lot about booth work today, I'm gonna go with

788
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.039
the bottom card from a basic.

789
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:19.880
Shuffle I just did, Okay, the kabooth.

790
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:23.400
So I have two of Wands reversed.

791
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:28.119
That's weird. We literally were talking about two of wands,

792
00:45:28.400 --> 00:45:28.840
weren't we.

793
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:34.039
Yes, that's in the liminal deck that we'll be running

794
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:38.880
on kickstarters starting on Wednesday. My version of the two

795
00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:44.239
of Wands is the person that is very heavily masked up,

796
00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:46.360
has a black hoodie and everything, but their eyes are

797
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:52.079
both glowing shiny glowy eye and upright, it's very much

798
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:59.239
having foresight, where it's the second step of some kind

799
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:06.840
of journey me something moral or philosophical, kind of a

800
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:10.880
take action, but you don't have to finish it right

801
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:15.559
now as long as you take the countep so reverse.

802
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.760
I would mostly interpret that as there's something that you

803
00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:23.559
could be doing that you do have the values towards

804
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:28.000
doing it, but there's some kind of excuse that you

805
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:35.000
have that isn't necessarily malicious, but deeper down than however

806
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.360
you normally talk to yourself, you kind of know that

807
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.280
it's not a very good excuse or you could do

808
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.840
something to get past it eventually. So it's not necessarily

809
00:46:46.079 --> 00:46:48.840
a hey, you're not doing this or you're a horrible person.

810
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.800
It's more of a take a minute. You probably know

811
00:46:53.679 --> 00:46:58.880
that you probably know that this reason is not as

812
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:03.519
solid as you think, So there's there's some way that

813
00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:05.760
you can take a next step in something that you

814
00:47:05.840 --> 00:47:10.280
really value. You're just really hesitating right now.

815
00:47:10.559 --> 00:47:13.519
Can you describe it too? Because for people who can't see.

816
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:17.679
It, the podcast that this illustration is from is set

817
00:47:17.719 --> 00:47:21.119
in like southwest, United States, so it's kind of desert

818
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:26.679
Arizona Ish and there's a big giant crag in the ground,

819
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.239
a cravass like it probably big enough to be like

820
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:33.639
a tourist attraction, like you take a hike and everything,

821
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:40.960
but everything is glowing green. And in the context of

822
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:42.679
the story, it's called Raidon Canyon.

823
00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:47.519
Actually, oh okay, that makes sense, the green glowy.

824
00:47:47.440 --> 00:47:50.239
And it is built as a tourist attraction. So I

825
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:53.039
would kind of put that hand in hand with if

826
00:47:53.079 --> 00:47:57.079
you're gonna go there, you had better keep going, like

827
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.960
it could be fine, but you gotta keep going. So

828
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:04.679
reversed intwo of ones, especially with the artwork that I

829
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.519
have in here, kind of paired with how I tend

830
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:13.079
to interpret that card is you know exactly what's going on.

831
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.679
You see the glow around you, You know that you

832
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:21.480
are in some place called raid On Canyon, So why

833
00:48:21.519 --> 00:48:24.519
aren't you still moving? And you don't have to panic

834
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.719
and move, but you should probably go ahead and take

835
00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:32.039
the next steps. And for everybody out there who also

836
00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:34.920
has ADHD, I wish you the best of luck in

837
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:38.840
figuring out what it is you forgot, because I'm trying

838
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:39.400
to do that too.

839
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.400
That's like kind of why I was laughing like, go ahead,

840
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.199
take the next step. It's not that hard. Because I

841
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:48.800
was listening to a podcast the other day and that

842
00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:52.679
was talking about like, like just do the first step

843
00:48:52.719 --> 00:48:56.880
of something like plan out like the entire steps, or

844
00:48:57.559 --> 00:48:59.960
just think about what the very first step would be

845
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:03.239
and just do that, like just take the first that

846
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:06.639
And so I'm like, okay. Now you're saying like, okay,

847
00:49:06.920 --> 00:49:09.199
just take the next step, and I'm like, away, I

848
00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:12.960
just took the first one.

849
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:17.559
I can't understand that. That's even people who approach tarot

850
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:22.159
as more of a psychological thing. I've had experiences with

851
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:26.039
people who we'd get on the same page, like, yes,

852
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:28.039
I'm pagan, you don't have to be. We can both

853
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:31.360
use tarot and talk about it. I've had some interesting

854
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:35.599
experiences with people where they would pull a card from

855
00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:38.000
their own deck and it would be something like wheel

856
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:41.239
of Fortune, and then we talk about that, and then

857
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.599
I would shuffle and pull a card from my deck

858
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:46.119
and it would be wheel of Fortune.

859
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:49.440
That's I love when that shit happens.

860
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:54.599
Stuff happens, and we might both be partially incorrect. It

861
00:49:54.679 --> 00:49:57.679
might be something that's not psychological, it might not be

862
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:01.480
something that's pagan, but in that moments something is happening.

863
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:07.320
Yeah, we've I've had never had that happen specifically, But

864
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.239
it seems like whenever like I draw a card, or

865
00:50:10.280 --> 00:50:13.360
my and my guest draws a card, or sometimes one

866
00:50:13.400 --> 00:50:16.519
of them had drew like a ruin, it seems to

867
00:50:16.559 --> 00:50:20.079
be like the interpretations kind of go together, or they're

868
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.280
like perfectly matched or paired, or like have the same

869
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:27.480
type of themes or like the same imagery even sometimes

870
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:29.800
and I'm like, dang, like how does that even work?

871
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.840
We're like over the computer and we're pulling like the

872
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:36.000
same kind of card with the same things.

873
00:50:36.519 --> 00:50:39.800
That's the and it touches a little bit more on

874
00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:44.280
the the witchery side of things. But I am also

875
00:50:44.719 --> 00:50:49.920
very much a proponent of the idea that not everything

876
00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:55.280
is external magic, but sometimes it kind of pokes energy

877
00:50:55.360 --> 00:51:01.280
that we already have inside us that kind of tunes

878
00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:04.920
us toward each other, I guess would be the closest

879
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:09.320
way I could describe that. Yeah, if it was simply

880
00:51:09.400 --> 00:51:13.039
external things, then there would be much less that, for example,

881
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:19.760
worked through the computer screen, but people can connect a

882
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:26.000
lot deeper than is often promoted, and when people are

883
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:31.480
very interested in the topic, it sparks more conversations of well,

884
00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:36.159
what is energy? Like how do people connect? How do

885
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:41.000
I use the past to influence the future versus I

886
00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.159
bought a rock and it's blue that means x y Z.

887
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.119
Or you could buy a rock and someone can tell

888
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:49.679
you it's for that and then yeah, this rock is

889
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.000
telling me it's for this completely other thing, and that's

890
00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:52.559
fine too.

891
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:57.719
I could also talk at length of like lists of

892
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:02.679
things that people go by ten not to gravitate towards

893
00:52:02.840 --> 00:52:07.679
like witchcraft groups and things, because I'm definitely the person

894
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:10.760
who sees a list and just goes.

895
00:52:10.760 --> 00:52:13.280
Why yeah, suspicious.

896
00:52:13.599 --> 00:52:19.679
But from my perspective approaching occult subjects, it's more of

897
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:24.079
a how does it interact with your own energy? Like

898
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:27.920
one one rock that you really hate might do wonderful

899
00:52:27.920 --> 00:52:30.719
things for me. One tea that's great for you might

900
00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:32.960
be really disgusting and put me in a bad mood.

901
00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:38.119
So everybody has to, for an example, find the tarot

902
00:52:38.119 --> 00:52:42.199
deck that resonates with them. Don't just pop over to

903
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:46.239
the nearest store that carries them and get the best seller, like.

904
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:51.599
Order the generic on Amazon. Oh yeah, I've never done

905
00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.320
that before ever, Like, don't look at me, what do

906
00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:54.880
you mean.

907
00:52:55.239 --> 00:53:00.519
It's that's a choice. If it's accessible, that's it is.

908
00:53:00.599 --> 00:53:02.920
The first deck I ever bought myself, I think was

909
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:05.199
from Amazon. But you guys can't judge me because I

910
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:08.199
just didn't know yet. I wasn't fully immersed in this world,

911
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:11.199
and you know, yeah.

912
00:53:11.000 --> 00:53:16.920
It's I obviously I am an independent seller, an artisan

913
00:53:17.679 --> 00:53:21.119
and everything like that. I was still poke around in

914
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:25.440
spirit of Halloween. But it's still if I see something,

915
00:53:26.239 --> 00:53:29.280
I try to consciously think, Okay, is this the choice

916
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:30.320
that I'm really going to make?

917
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.960
Yes, exactly, And then also can I make another choice

918
00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:37.920
and support maybe someone smaller as well. Also, this did

919
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:40.119
remind me of like one of the rules that I

920
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:43.760
hate that everyone always says about taro is that you

921
00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:46.639
have to be gifted your tarot deck and you can't

922
00:53:46.679 --> 00:53:48.679
buy your own.

923
00:53:48.960 --> 00:53:52.599
I can understand some of the historical context of that.

924
00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:55.480
I don't know how true it is, but it's plausible.

925
00:53:55.639 --> 00:53:58.760
At least there was a time, and I'm sure there's

926
00:53:58.760 --> 00:54:01.960
still some places that you go out and just buy

927
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.320
your own tarot deck that could put you in a

928
00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:08.719
lot of danger. But if you are gifted a Tarot deck,

929
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:13.119
that means you are pretty much in a mostly safe space,

930
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:16.519
or you at least know someone safe enough that you

931
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.679
can mention you would like to have a Tarot deck,

932
00:54:18.840 --> 00:54:21.760
and then they can go out and pick one.

933
00:54:21.639 --> 00:54:24.239
Up for you. I don't think it's necessary though at all.

934
00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:28.880
I don't think it's totally necessary. It's if that directly

935
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.880
applies to someone, I can understand it, But as a

936
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:34.960
blanket rule, I don't think that's really relevant anymore.

937
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.480
I feel like it kind of sort of probably came

938
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:41.159
from maybe when they weren't as popular in the stores

939
00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:42.840
and you couldn't just go out and buy one, like

940
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:45.039
maybe you had a family deck that was like passed

941
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:46.920
down or whatever. But I don't think it was say

942
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:48.800
that too. I don't think it should ever be a

943
00:54:48.880 --> 00:54:51.920
rule rule. So definitely, like if you're interested in this

944
00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:55.840
liminal deck, go on the kickstarter and donate to it

945
00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:58.719
so you can buy it. That would help for yourself.

946
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:02.199
A lot of things, so much. Of course, I can

947
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:05.800
talk also for a really long time about how it

948
00:55:05.800 --> 00:55:07.559
would add great things to the shop and things that

949
00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.760
I don't have to draw again. I could keep getting

950
00:55:09.800 --> 00:55:14.719
prints and make them accessible to people. But it's also

951
00:55:16.480 --> 00:55:19.679
instead of kind of just fitting and dwelling on things

952
00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.719
that I don't like in tarot subjects and spheres of things.

953
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:28.760
I have decided to go through a lot of time

954
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:34.360
and effort to add something, to add another alternative that

955
00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:39.639
traditional can be fine, but I always want to encourage

956
00:55:39.639 --> 00:55:45.360
people to try something new and something that doesn't hold

957
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:49.360
your hand, something that doesn't really spoon feed you. Yeah,

958
00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:55.239
and the structure is the same, but there are enough

959
00:55:55.320 --> 00:56:00.880
changes where hopefully it helps people think a little bit

960
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:03.719
more of their specific situation.

961
00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:09.039
Yeah, give them a little different perspective. Maybe exactly? Is

962
00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:12.000
that like the biggest place people can find you as Instagram?

963
00:56:12.039 --> 00:56:15.679
The biggest places are Instagram. I try to stay where

964
00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:19.119
aware of not everybody uses that all the time. So

965
00:56:19.159 --> 00:56:23.719
the main areas are Instagram, the main website, Blackbird Parlor.

966
00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:28.599
I also have a YouTube channel that I had a

967
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:31.800
lot of technical difficulties earlier, but once those are ironed

968
00:56:31.840 --> 00:56:34.000
out and I can spend more time on it, that

969
00:56:34.039 --> 00:56:34.880
will be more active.

970
00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:37.679
They're used to technical difficulties around here, so if they're

971
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.199
one of our listeners, they'll be fine.

972
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:44.800
It makes me feel better mainly Instagram, but if I

973
00:56:44.840 --> 00:56:47.880
have a comment or some kind of feedback on pretty

974
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:51.599
much anywhere else you can find me. Things are just

975
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:54.880
small enough. I think where I really love to be

976
00:56:54.920 --> 00:56:58.079
able to take the time to actually respond to that

977
00:56:58.360 --> 00:57:01.119
is I don't think I will wake up anytime soon,

978
00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:03.800
and there's like ten thousands of commons and things like that.

979
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:07.679
Hopefully at that point you never know, hire an intern.

980
00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:12.760
I don't know. But I really like to have feedback

981
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:15.199
and have a back and forth pretty much anywhere, but

982
00:57:15.320 --> 00:57:16.719
Instagram is the easiest.

983
00:57:16.360 --> 00:57:16.920
Place to do that.

984
00:57:17.239 --> 00:57:22.920
And you are at that is at whiskey w h

985
00:57:23.119 --> 00:57:27.320
I s k E y whiskey Tara t e r

986
00:57:27.519 --> 00:57:28.760
R A fox trot.

987
00:57:28.960 --> 00:57:32.639
I was trying to say where wolves I'm just renaming you.

988
00:57:33.039 --> 00:57:37.760
Think of like the pointy orange where fox somewhere. But

989
00:57:37.920 --> 00:57:40.199
that's yes, speaking of ADHD.

990
00:57:40.320 --> 00:57:42.840
But you're gonna have to add a were wolf t

991
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:43.480
your dec.

992
00:57:45.079 --> 00:57:48.239
I think there's you're reminding me of things in my

993
00:57:48.320 --> 00:57:52.599
college sketchbooks. Oh I need to make notes on later.

994
00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.239
But maybe I'm just reading your mind.

995
00:57:55.639 --> 00:57:59.119
Maybe reading my sketch books a terrifying place to be

996
00:57:59.639 --> 00:58:04.440
one day, if the stars aligned for it, I would

997
00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:09.159
love to put out a very small line of whiskey

998
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:11.559
because I don't drink a lot, but I know it.

999
00:58:11.960 --> 00:58:13.280
What is my favorites?

1000
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:16.679
But liminal whiskey.

1001
00:58:16.880 --> 00:58:19.679
Oh yeah, that's that sounds like a potion that would

1002
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.079
do interesting things.

1003
00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:25.880
It does. Whiskey is kind of liminal if you think

1004
00:58:25.920 --> 00:58:27.239
about it, because it just sits in a.

1005
00:58:27.239 --> 00:58:32.159
Barrel's Irish whiskey. At least it uses pete from the bogs.

1006
00:58:32.480 --> 00:58:34.039
So if that's very liminal.

1007
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:37.760
If someone says like, oh, whiskey takes tastes like dirt,

1008
00:58:37.800 --> 00:58:40.920
you should ask them if they're actually a fan of whiskey,

1009
00:58:40.960 --> 00:58:43.719
because if someone likes it, they might say it tastes

1010
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:46.239
like dirt and it's fine, and if they don't, they

1011
00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:50.119
just like, okay, that is very liminal. It could go

1012
00:58:50.159 --> 00:58:50.559
either way.

1013
00:58:51.400 --> 00:58:54.880
Have a creepy day. Thank you so much. That was

1014
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:55.679
so much fun.

1015
00:58:55.880 --> 00:58:57.599
It was great.

1016
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:03.280
So when we I messaged you, I think after or

1017
00:59:03.320 --> 00:59:05.519
you messaged me. I can't remember who messaged you after

1018
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:09.320
we met, because I like asked you if you wanted

1019
00:59:09.360 --> 00:59:11.400
to be interviewed on the podcast and whatever, so I

1020
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:13.519
was like reaching out to you, I think. But we

1021
00:59:13.559 --> 00:59:15.800
were chatting a little bit and you were saying something

1022
00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:21.320
about your tent collapsed and everything was chaos and I

1023
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:24.280
like fully knew who I was talking to, Like I

1024
00:59:24.360 --> 00:59:27.480
knew you were the person who was creating the tarot deck,

1025
00:59:27.559 --> 00:59:29.599
like fully knew who you were. But then I like

1026
00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:31.719
responded and I was like, oh my god, do you

1027
00:59:31.800 --> 00:59:35.000
fuck with Tarrell? Like this seems like a tower card situation.

1028
00:59:35.559 --> 00:59:37.519
And then I was so embarrassed.

1029
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:41.440
After that is perfectly fine. I think I said something

1030
00:59:41.840 --> 00:59:45.519
to that effect. It's I try not to just frame

1031
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:49.880
everything in terms of ADHD, but it's I was a

1032
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:54.800
very late diagnosis in life, so sometimes when things like

1033
00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:58.480
that happen with other people, I tried to be very

1034
00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:00.719
vocally understanding m